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Discussion Boards => Media => Topic started by: Thad on February 22, 2008, 04:01:56 PM

Title: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on February 22, 2008, 04:01:56 PM
All right, starting this as a single thread again; in the likely event that it diverges significantly into "Thad reviews old Doctor Who" and "people talk about new Doctor Who" threads once the new season starts, I'll get somebody to split it again.

At any rate.

Just Netflixed Earthshock, a Davison-era serial best remembered for [spoiler]the death of Adric[/spoiler].

One of the reasons it is best remembered for that is that the rest of it is pretty thoroughly forgettable.

I hope you like stories where the Doctor materializes in the middle of a murder investigation, is falsely accused and taken into custody, and his captors don't believe his story until the real killers show up and start shooting people...because for some reason that happens TWICE in this serial.

The more interesting angle is the attempt to establish a father/son relationship between the Doctor and Adric.  Unfortunately, Adric is at his most obnoxious here and what we see is full-on teen drama, which amounts to "You treat me like a child, you're not my real father, I liked Tom Baker better, I wanna go home, waaaaaaah."  (And really, who DIDN'T like Tom Baker better.)

Just to review Adric's faults, since the spotlight's on him here: while he predates Wesley Crusher, he's pretty much in his mold.  He's the precocious child who somehow manages to show up all the adults on the show every time there's a problem to solve.  Adding teen angst to his character traits does not make him more sympathetic.

That said, the attempt to explore the Doctor's companions as surrogate family is a noble one.  We see a paternal side of the Doctor that recalls the First Doctor's farewell to Susan.

After that it's largely a straightforward Cybermen story; the Fifth Doctor's first (and only, unless you count their brief appearance in The Five Doctors) encounter with them.  (As the Cybermen recognize the Doctor and recount his previous appearances, they bring up, by omission, the interesting bit of trivia that they didn't appear during Pertwee's run.)  Pretty standard stuff; they're trying to destroy the Earth for what turns out to be a supremely nonsensical reason.  (It turns out that a coalition of planetary leaders is meeting on Earth to declare war on the Cybermen; the Cyber Leader plans to wipe them all out in one fell swoop as this will "destroy their unity".  Because nothing destroys the unity of a group that wants to declare war on you like ASSASSINATING ALL THEIR HEADS OF STATE.)

The big payoff is in the last five minutes -- a frantic battle with the Cyber Leader on the TARDIS, while the rest of the cast race against time on the bridge of a spaceship to prevent its lethal collision course with Earth.  It's a tense and extraordinarily well-executed climax.

[spoiler]Adric's death is handled surprisingly well.  He dies in truly precocious-child fashion, with the words "Now I'll never know if I was right" -- managing to turn his most obnoxious character trait into something bleakly charming.  The reaction on the TARDIS is beautifully handled -- stunned, slackjawed silence, which carries over through the credits.[/spoiler]

The presentation is slick -- the transition from the caves to the ship shows some good range in setting, and the Cybermen look less ridiculous than they did during the Troughton years.  The score is solid, not nearly the overbearing early-'80's synth that characterized some of the late Baker stories.

This is one of those eps that's considered a classic by fans whose appeal I can't see so well watching it for the first time with no emotional investment.  (This seems to be a trend among Cybermen stories.)  The payoff of the last five minutes is excellent, and the pacing of the story is tight except for the fact that the first and third episode have EXACTLY THE SAME PLOT, but all in all I'd say it's a pretty average story.  Amazon's price is $20, which I'd say is $5 more than I'd recommend paying for it.  Worth a rental though.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on March 07, 2008, 10:31:09 AM
The Doctor Who Classics comic has gotten pretty good.  #4 wraps the City of the Damned arc (in the first 4 pages, which leads me to wonder why, for a $4 cover price, they couldn't just make #3 4 pages longer rather than interrupt the pacing), then includes a neat little fill-in bottle story where the TARDIS is attacked by an alien monster that feeds on its time energy and regresses its inhabitants -- K-9 back to a puddle of liquid metal, and the Fourth Doctor back to the First.  The resolution is some neat pseudoscience, and it's fun seeing the cameos by the Doctor's first three forms.  (If I want to nitpick, I'd say the First Doctor talks a little too much like the Fourth; yes, there's a "tut-tut", but there's an "old girl" in there, too.)  Art in those pages is not Gibbons and is hit-or-miss, but it looks pretty good in places.

The final story in the issue just gets warmed up; can't really form an opinion on it yet but it seems weak so far.  Hopefully it'll pick up next issue.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on March 08, 2008, 10:46:55 PM
Latest Netflix selection (Netflick?  Netflik?) is Vengeance on Varos.  I decided I should probably check out something with the Sixth Doctor just so I could say I had, and this is apparently generally viewed as his best serial.

It IS pretty good, and manages that elusive trick of still being topical 24 years later.  There's some 1984 in there, a bit of Fahrenheit 451, and a little Running Man; Varos is a world where the government keeps its citizens in line by plopping them in front of reality TV, and the particular brand of reality TV revolves around the execution of rebels.  Varos's figurehead leader is an ineffectual governor who is physically punished every time the people vote against one of his policies; the true villain is an alien slug who sounds like Cobra Commander and who is ripping off the oblivious citizens on Varos by grossly underpaying them for their fuel source.

Hell of a lot going on there: the complacent citizens, the reality TV, the struggle for energy sources, the government figurehead being manipulated by a military-industrial complex.  On top of that, the pacing is tight (though a bit off from what I've come to expect from classic Who, as this was after the shift from 25-minute to 45-minute episodes).  The makeup's good, but the sets are pretty drab; lots of identical metal corridors in this one.

The other problem is that the Doctor and companion Peri are really just window-dressing in the story -- they're far less interesting than the supporting cast, and the story would have worked fine without them but for the Doctor's off-world knowledge of the value of Zeiton-7 ore.  I didn't really get a bead on the Sixth Doctor's personality beyond "generic", and Peri was little more than a pair of jiggling breasts -- though I'm not going to spend too much time griping about that.

It's the best I've seen in awhile.  If you're doing what I'm doing and Netflixing old eps, I'd call this a must-see; if you're looking to buy, I'd say it's worth the $18 Amazon's charging for it.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on March 14, 2008, 07:33:26 PM
Destiny of the Daleks is Tom Baker's second and final confrontation with the titular monsters (memo to Rusty: yes, they ONLY DID TWO DALEK STORIES IN EIGHT YEARS), as well as Lalla Ward's first appearance as Romana (she'd played Princess Astra in the previous serial) and the second appearance of Davros.

It's a pretty run-of-the-mill story; by far the best sequences are the creepy, antediluvian ruins of the Dalek city, best used in the end of the second chapter when a cobweb-covered Davros begins to awaken.

It's sort of downhill after that.  The creepy aliens of indeterminate race and sex turn out to be bad guys, Davros and the Doctor banter back and forth about their respective philosophies, and the whole thing sort of falls apart in the last chapter where it turns out the two alien races are in a stalemate because their battle computers are evenly matched.

The Daleks' blind obedience to Davros is a pretty radical change; not only have they, over the few hundred years since Genesis of the Daleks, gone from attempting to exterminate him for being inferior to reviving him because he's much smarter than they are, but within the span of two episodes they go from "Self-sacrifice is illogical and therefore impossible" to strapping bombs to themselves on his orders.

And on the subject of logic -- I've noticed more than one fan bellyache about the "Daleks trapped in a logical impasse" element, as that sort of story is much better suited to the Cybermen; Daleks aren't generally depicted as slaves to logic.

For a serial with both Terry Nation (writer) and Douglas Adams (editor) named in the credits, it disappoints.  There ARE a few good Adams-y one-liners in there, but they're far between.  As for the "comedy" in the opening segment, Romana's regeneration scene painfully fails to amuse, and of course reminds us that no two writers can agree on how regeneration works anyway.

It's not great, it's not terrible.  Rent, don't buy.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Cannon on March 14, 2008, 08:31:58 PM
Interested on hearing your thoughts concerning Delta and the Bannermen and The Greatest Show in the Galaxy, Thad. I know you're a ways off from the Seventh Doctor, but I'm curious.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on March 14, 2008, 08:55:02 PM
Actually, I have the last three Seventh Doctor serials queued up now.

I've got those two on my list of things to check out, along with Invasion of Time; I'll watch your suggestions one of these days.

Will probably slow down on the classic rentals once the new season starts up.  BBC's been mum on the premier date, but Sci-Fi said April.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on March 28, 2008, 10:34:04 PM
Actually, I have the last three Seventh Doctor serials queued up now.

One down.

The Seventh Doctor era gets a lot of (presumably well-deserved) flack, and some fans blame McCoy and Aldred for the waning quality and ultimate cancellation of the show.  Others blame the writers, and Ghost Light seems to vindicate that view, as it shows McCoy and Aldred do a perfectly good job when they have a decent script to work from.

Ghost Light tends a bit toward the confusing and I found myself hitting up Wikipedia to explain what it was I'd just seen when it was over, but that's not necessarily a negative; some of my favorite sci-fi is inscrutable.

It's something of a mishmash of references to such works as The Shining, Pygmalion, and Heart of Darkness, with a dash of Douglas Adams thrown in.  But the Victorian haunted-house ambience is suitably creepy, and most of the cast -- creepy housekeeper, insane hunter, lord of the manor who wears glasses indoors, caveman, crazy hooded figure, monstrous angel -- is interesting.  The Seventh Doctor comes across as a mysteryman who manipulates Ace to force her to confront fears out of her past, and when he confronts Light in the final act, reminds the audience that he is indeed both ancient and alien.  Ace is a far more complex character than most companions in the original series, and paves the way for Rose and Martha to have involved and (sometimes) interesting backstories 15 years later.

All in all, it's better than the Tom Baker/Terry Nation/Douglas Adams Dalek story I watched two weeks ago, and that HAS to count for something.

$20 at Amazon -- worth buying.  (Note: I will not be buying it at this time, as I have no money.)
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Arc on April 03, 2008, 01:48:27 PM
$20 at Amazon -- worth buying.

$16 (after shipping) brand new through their marketplace. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0007VY5QM/ref=dp_olp_2)

1-Click™ away!
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on April 06, 2008, 04:09:02 PM
Back to the oldschool:

Curse of Fenric makes a fine followup to Ghost Light.  It's got vampires, Ragnarok, game theory, cryptography, World War II, sea monsters, time paradoxes, causality loops, and ancient exiled evil.

Most interesting is the "Battle not with monsters lest you become one" theme.  I can't recall an American children's show ever uttering the word "Dresden"; hell, I'm hard-pressed even to think of one that actually showed a swastika.  Acknowledging that the Allies were far from innocent in the war is powerful stuff for -- what was the expression? -- goofball foreign children's television.

The plot twists are obvious, the characters are simplistic, and all in all it's a lot easier to follow than Ghost Light.  But simplicity aside, the characterization is excellent, particularly from the Doctor and Ace during the climax.

All in all, a great mix of elements, well-written and well-acted.  I think I'm going to have to agree with the fanboys: it's a pity the show was cancelled just when it was starting to turn around.

$25 at Amazon and worth it.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on April 11, 2008, 01:52:04 PM
The original 26-year run concludes with the ironically-titled Survival.  (Gloria Gaynor can relate, I'm sure.)

It lacks the deeper themes and clever storytelling of the two preceding serials, and, due to the presence of Cheetah People, is far, far sillier.  But it's a fun, if nonsensical, straight-up Doctor versus Master story, and is significant both for the last appearance of Ainley as the Master (a 1990's adventure game notwithstanding) and of course the series finale.  Plus it explains what the Master's doing with yellow cat eyes in the 1996 TV movie.

$26 at Amazon; comes with a second disc that apparently has a lot of extra features dealing with the historical significance of the ep.  For a slightly more casual fan such as myself, I'd say do what I did: Netflix the first disc and don't worry about the second.  It's worth checking out, but its predecessors are better.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on July 05, 2008, 03:10:24 PM
Putting this in a new post because I'm considering doing what I threatened in the first post and splitting this into a new Who thread and an old Who thread.

I discovered at the comic shop yesterday that there's a 288-page collection of Sixth Doctor comics by Grant Morrison and John Ridgway called The World Shapers.  A Google search turns up a spoilery summary and review (http://www.pagefillers.com/dwrg/csworld.htm); it sounds pretty good and I'll have my eye on it for the next time the shop has a sale.  (This time I opted for Sandman vol 10 and that big ol' Locas hardback.)

...So I wonder when we're going to see the Alan Moore/David Lloyd stories collected.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on July 11, 2008, 06:34:43 PM
Righto; thread split.  (And as the dancing Cyberman in the thread icon appears to be a modern Cyberman, that means that for the third time in recent memory, I have changed a thread so it no longer gibes with its icon.  Arc, when you get the chance, I'd say move this icon to the new thread and find something appropriate for this one.)

Just finished Scream of the Shalka (http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/webcasts/shalka/), the animated Webcast from '03 that was originally intended to serve as a pilot for a new series.

All in all, the biggest weakness is Richard E Grant's Doctor: bluntly, he's a prick.  He's got all of Eccleston's sarcasm and condescension, with none of his whimsy or manic energy.

Now, there's a REASON the Doctor is a prick, it's just not a very good or interesting one.  The canonical #9 and #10 have done the "guilt and isolation" schtick too, but much better; the Doctor covering up his personal pain with constant wackiness is much more enjoyable than covering it up by simply insulting everyone and brooding all the time.

The most interesting element of the series is the [spoiler]robotic[/spoiler] Master -- one of very few hints that Grant's Doctor has a sense of humor, and the only thread I would have liked to see developed had this made it to series.  (The one brief nod on the current series: Derek Jacobi appearing as the Master in Utopia.)

Aside from that, it's a generic alien invasion plot.  The animation is serviceable -- and, since it's properly-done Flash, vector graphics and all, looks great on an HDTV -- but very low-budget; it would definitely look at home alongside any number of current cartoons on Nickelodeon or CN.  Animations are simple, backgrounds are practically nonexistent (but lots of Kirby dots!).  The animators' later attempts (the missing eps in The Invasion and The Infinite Quest) look a good deal better.

Anyway.  It's worth checking out; the price is right.  And I'd like to see more animated Who (either new stuff or more Invasion-style fill-ins of missing episodes).  But ultimately, it's like the '96 movie: it's an interesting "What-If" for a series that never was, but the one we got instead is much better.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on August 20, 2008, 02:11:57 PM
...Since the entire point of the threadsplit was for me to talk more about old Doctor Who while the new show's on break, I should probably mention that I watched The Three Doctors the other week, but I don't have much to say about it.

It's a pretty solid character piece; of course the interaction between #2 and #3 is the heart of it (#1 barely appears but is lovably insufferable when he does).  Brig provides some comic relief with his staunch, professional refusal to accept the rather silly and convoluted plot.

Omega's not much of a villain but has a cool mask, and the big reveal when he takes it off is a good bit.

All in all, a classic Who that most assuredly deserves to be described as classic Who.  Definitely worth at least a rental, and probably worth having in a collection.

Tangentially related: this is the first video I watched through Netflix's streaming service.  Once I got past the fundamental problems with the service -- fuck you if you don't use Windows and IE --, it ran pretty well.  There's no scene/episode selection, but when I quit out after an episode and came back later to watch the next one, it remembered my place.  There was no sputtering at all in the stream, and the picture looked as high a quality as a DVD would have been -- though of course this is early-'70's Doctor Who, and I don't know if something like Lord of the Rings would hold up as well if I streamed it.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on September 03, 2008, 07:11:06 PM
The Ribos Operation is a mediocre story saved by interesting characters.  It's probably most remarkable as the first appearance of Romana, who isn't one of them.  At this point she's just a know-it-all college girl and general ice queen (as made less subtle by her costume).  While this is the only serial I've seen with Mary Tamm in the role, I can reasonably assume she and the Doctor warm up to each other over time -- but I can also reasonably assume she never achieves the same chemistry with Baker that Ward had, what with Baker and Ward sleeping together and all.

This is the first part of The Key to Time Series, AKA Collection Quest: The Movie, wherein a generic good-guy overlord tells the Doctor he has to collect a series of MacGuffins before a generic bad-guy overlord can get to them first.  The plot from there is simultaneously simple and needlessly convoluted: as the Doctor and Romana seek the first piece of the Key, they find that a royal exile and a pair of small-time thieves want it too.  The series shows the pacing problems faced by so many early Who serials in that nothing really happens until it's half-over.

That's saved, as I said, by a good cast of characters: the lovable con-men, the ambitious villain, an alien version of Galileo, an entertainingly over-the-top augurer, and a rubber-suit monster that doesn't get nearly enough screen time.

It ends with what I've so often complained that RTD simply can't seem to do: a short but satisfying goodbye scene.

All in all, it was probably worth the rental but leaves me fairly nonplussed about the whole Key to Time series.  I assume I will find the next serial, The Pirate Planet, much more impressive, as it was written by Douglas Adams.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Bal on September 03, 2008, 08:29:14 PM
So Thad, I know you love Doctor Who, and so do I, but uh, this whole thread is just you talking to yourself. Maybe you should just start a Doctor Who appreciation blog.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on September 03, 2008, 08:33:46 PM
Or I could merge it back into the other one.  But I like what I'm doing here.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Royal☭ on September 03, 2008, 08:38:09 PM
Actually a Doctor Who or Sci-Fi blog run by Thad would be neat.  Hell, any blog by Thad would probably be erudite and interesting.  If only such a thing existed.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on September 03, 2008, 09:35:25 PM
Yeah, all right.  Between this and the comic thread being almost Thad-only affairs and my latest blog entry being about February's strong beer fest, maybe I should consider an update.

Later.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Detonator on September 03, 2008, 09:42:44 PM
I'm more likely to read a political Thadblog (even if it's just repeating what you post here), so try to throw some of that in as well.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on September 03, 2008, 09:51:08 PM
We'll see.  I hate to censor myself, but I'm also looking for work at places that might frown on my politics.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Detonator on September 03, 2008, 10:30:08 PM
We'll see.  I hate to censor myself, but I'm also looking for work at places that might frown on my politics.

You could always try to sneak it through by creating a  :wat: - esque persona, and hope they don't grasp satire well.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Niku on November 04, 2008, 04:18:51 PM
T THAD, OR REALLY ANYONE ELSE WHO CARES.

Okay, so you might have brought this up at some point on the old boards or in the thread about the new Doctor Who, but as I've never done much more than skim them (as with most threads not entirely jiving with my interests) I wouldn't be aware.  Except hey, I finally got around to starting into Series 27 or Season 1 or DW05 or whatever the fuck the reboot is commonly called and .. I have basically no knowledge about Doctor Who aside from what I've picked up here or there.  I knew about the last of the Time Lords thing, I know he's got an antagonist called The Master, and I know a smidge about Daleks and that's about it.  Is there anything I can or should watch that would help prime me a little more for the new stuff?  Or just interesting older episodes that are relevant to a newbie more focused on the new stuff?  I'm being extremely entertained as is, but I like to know the roots of the shit I get into.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on November 04, 2008, 04:35:24 PM
Old Pyoko Thread (http://boards.pyoko.org/index.php/topic,5242.0.html) and current thread have lengthier reviews, but in general:

Genesis of the Daleks may be the best place to start.  It's got the Fourth Doctor, Daleks, Davros, and Sarah Jane, and is probably the definitive Dalek story and a damn fine Terry Nation arc.

The other Dalek serial I'd recommend is their first appearance, the First Doctor serial appropriately named The Daleks.

The best Master arc I've seen goes through three serials, Keeper of Traken, Logopolis, and Castrovalva, which also feature the Fourth Doctor's regeneration into the Fifth.

As stated on page 1, Vengeance on Varos is the only Sixth Doctor serial I've seen and is pretty good, and as for the Seventh Doctor, Ghost Light and Curse of Fenric are pretty decent, but that stuff's not really important to the current series.

Similarly, City of Death doesn't have any importance to continuity, but is my all-time favorite serial (it's co-written by Douglas Adams) and is highly recommended.

As far as stuff that's not out on DVD but might be worth torrenting: my favorite Second Doctor serial is The War Games, though it's a little long, and it might be a good idea to watch The Deadly Assassin before Keeper of Traken.

Anyway.  The current series is specially designed to stand on its own with no prior knowledge, but those are some good picks if you want background.

If canon's what's important to you, there's a pretty good list at Amazon called Doctor Who: The Essential Canon (http://www.amazon.com/Doctor-nbsp-Who-nbsp-on-nbsp-DVD-nbsp-the-nbsp-Essential-nbsp-Canon/lm/R3AQYJOMWGX4AJ/ref=cm_srch_res_rpli_alt_1) -- but it's focused more on "important" stories than ones that are actually enjoyable to watch; I've tried to lean more toward the latter here.  Still, I've produced a Baker-heavy list (aren't they all?) and not given any Pertwee recommendations -- I quite like Pertwee, the problem is that none of the Pertwee serials I've seen are especially great.  Maybe The Three Doctors.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Niku on November 04, 2008, 05:21:19 PM
Rad.  I'm not using my Netflix for much right now anyway, so I'll start looking into some of those probably after I finish off this season (seeing as how I don't want to burn out going through all four as quickly as possible).  Thanks!
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on November 04, 2008, 05:23:20 PM
Yeah, all the DVD's are available on Netflix, and most of the Baker ones and a few non-Baker ones are available for streaming.  In my experience they stream fine and don't look any worse than the DVD's.

Which will be useful over the next two weeks while Stewart and Colbert are on vacation.  (The Mac version of Netflix's streaming service was released in beta just in time!)
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on November 08, 2008, 11:00:25 AM
I was leaning toward re-merging the two threads, but now that this one's surpassed one page and has more people than me talking in it, I'm leaning toward keeping them separated.  We'll see what happens.

Anyway:

I discovered at the comic shop yesterday that there's a 288-page collection of Sixth Doctor comics by Grant Morrison and John Ridgway called The World Shapers.  A Google search turns up a spoilery summary and review (http://www.pagefillers.com/dwrg/csworld.htm); it sounds pretty good and I'll have my eye on it for the next time the shop has a sale.

Grant Morrison's Doctor Who #2 contains the World Shapers arc -- all of it.  So the other 264 pages must be something else.  I assume another 24 pages were probably the bits we saw in issue #1 (or at least the Sixth Doctor portion), but what about the rest?  The ad on the last page, and the above-linked review, suggest that these 48 pages are all the Doctor Who that Morrison actually wrote, so it's possible that the rest of the World Shapers trade is written by other people who aren't prestigious enough to get their names on the cover.

Google isn't much help, so I think I may have to thumb through it in the store on Wednesday.

Anyway.  It's a very cool story, and all the more impressive for being told in 24 pages; I recommend picking it up.

The main difference from the version in the TPB is that it's shrunk down to regular comic size and colored.  Probably the biggest negative is that you can tell; the lines often seem to run together and the art suffers for being resized.  (Again, I'm not an artist and my lingo's probably not up to snuff; maybe Guild or somebody can help me out here.)  So that might be an argument for checking out the trade, which collects the stories in their original magazine size (and their original black-and-white).

This may be something specific to Ridgeway's art, as I thought the Doctor Who Classics series (which was mostly drawn by Gibbons) looked really good.  Or it may be due to the fact that the art here was originally B&W; the shading Ridgeway employs doesn't look like what you'd expect in a color comic.  (Again, someone with some art chops can help me out here.)

Anyway, a very good book; better than issue #1 and highly recommended.  This shows Morrison before he found his niche (Animal Man #5, "The Coyote Gospel", is the first "modern", or, more accurately, postmodern, Morrison story), but he's clearly a very talented writer even this early in the game.  It's a good time-travel story with fan service that's enjoyable while still managing to serve the story, and it does a great job of using the medium to show things that the TV show's budget wouldn't allow.  The atmosphere is excellent (and the art even shows little details like Peri's wet hair after they come in out of the storm), and again, Morrison manages to tell an action-packed, intelligent, and emotional story all in the span of 24 pages.

The interview (http://splashpage.mtv.com/2008/10/23/grant-morrison-talks-idw-doctor-who-reprints-possible-film-ideas/) I linked the other day has Morrison saying he's got a great deal of affection for the Sixth Doctor and wishes the writing during his tenure hadn't been so lousy.  The only Sixth Doctor serial I've seen is Vengeance on Varos, which is generally believed to be his best and which I quite enjoyed, but which wasn't really a Doctor story at all -- take out the Doctor and Peri and the story still works without them.  The World Shapers is better because it feels more like a Doctor Who story.  (This, coincidentally, was Morrison's reasoning for why he preferred Human Nature/The Family of Blood to Blink.)

Anyhow.  Great comic; go buy it.

Also: I watched The Pirate Planet like a month ago; sooner or later I'll slap my thoughts up.  Basically, it wasn't as funny as I expected but it was very smart and is worth watching.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on November 18, 2008, 03:12:27 PM
Following that last bit up:

The Pirate Planet is not what you expect either from the title or for the writer (Douglas Adams).  The pirates are not of the traditional variety (though the leader has robot parts), are never referred to as pirates, and it is unclear until halfway through or more WHY the serial is called "The Pirate Planet".

But all that's part of a series of mysteries in the serial that are quite cleverly revealed.  Some are obvious, others (why do gems fall from the sky right before the stars change?) are not.

Adams crafts a story with far fewer laughs than you would expect, but it's quite clever and plays out at a good pace, and features an interesting cast of characters (particularly the villains).  As usual, he wears his environmentalist cred on his sleeve, but uses it in a way that makes the story interesting.

For $16, it's on the "worth owning" list.

That said, I have zero interest in watching the rest of the Key to Time Series.  I've already watched 200 minutes of a collection quest; I don't really see following the remaining 450.  Frankly, as much as I love Baker I think I'll take a break from him, maybe watch some more Pertwee or Davison.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on November 23, 2008, 02:09:39 PM
Today's the show's 45th anniversary; the BBC site has some just-released archival material (http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/doctorwho/gallery_genesis_of_doctorwho.shtml?id=gall01) to commemorate it.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Sharkey on November 25, 2008, 12:30:10 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtG5dK_HaGg
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on November 25, 2008, 11:39:50 AM
What are YOU doing in Canada?

(...didn't we used to have an "It's a trap!" emote?)

...Anyway.  Just watched the inappropriately-named Resurrection of the Daleks.  Not bad, but a whole lot like Earthshock: a Davison serial with one of the Big Two enemy races, a lot of running around on a spaceship (and Rula Lenska's character is pretty much identical to the Captain in Earthshock), and ending with [spoiler]someone sacrificing himself to destroy the ship and a companion leaving.  Of course, that last similarity actually works pretty well -- while Adric isn't mentioned, it's easy to assume Stien's death reminds Teagan too much of his and that's part of why she's so shaken up at the end.[/spoiler]

The premise -- that the Daleks are totally helpless by themselves and forced to reluctantly rescue Davros in order to get out of a jam -- is almost as thin here as it was in Destiny of the Daleks, but at least the "we need a genetic engineer" explanation fits better than the rather nonsensical "we are slaves to logic and don't know how to improvise in a war" explanation used in the latter.  Plus, Davros as much as says these Daleks aren't very advanced models and he's going to work on making them better; of course that's the bastard about time travel stories.  In the Dalek timeline, this has to take place well before their first few appearances.

The climax is the Doctor's confrontation with Davros, which echoes the Fourth Doctor's "Have I the right?" scene in Genesis of the Daleks, and which still makes for decent drama here even though you just want him to pull the effing trigger already.  It's not the ethical dilemma it was in Genesis (is it okay to kill the first batch of Daleks before they do any harm?) or, years later, The Parting of the Ways (is it worth taking out the entire Earth to kill the Daleks?); it's just the Doctor and Davros, with no innocent lives in the balance.  And the Doctor's already killed several Daleks by this point.

This is the first I've seen of Turlough, and I can immediately understand why people like him: the companions are a pretty fucking bland and indistinguishable bunch, and he stands out by being more complex than most of them.  He's intelligent but also arrogant and self-serving; that's a lot more compelling than just the girlfriend du jour.

Of all the DVD's I've watched, this one had the most noticeable issues with the transfer.  There are a couple of places where the picture ripples noticeably.  It's not a big deal but distracting enough to make note of; seems like they could have put more effort into fixing that.

Anyway.  Not a bad Dalek serial; better than the previous one but not as good as Genesis.  (Of course, Genesis is probably the best one, so that's sort of a meaningless comparison.)  Decent; I'd put this one in the "rent, don't buy" pile.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on December 03, 2008, 02:10:46 PM
I quite like Pertwee, the problem is that none of the Pertwee serials I've seen are especially great.

I just watched The Green Death and it's pretty good.  By-the-numbers story, with too much wandering around in caves and futuristic businesses, but the Third Doctor and the Brigadier are in top form, and the villains are pretty awesome too.

The environmentalist bent to the story is obvious but still takes a backseat to rubber monsters and an evil computer.  It DOES do a decently fair job of setting out the green-versus-labor dilemma and pit the down-to-Earth miners against eccentric hippie scientists, with the Brigadier somewhere in the middle, ever the pragmatist.  It also strikes a chord in that the evil polluting corporation is so powerful that it has the full support of the PM, and in one scene the villain threatens to have the Doctor (I think it was the Doctor) arrested under the Emergency Powers Act.

There are some problems with the transfer in places -- I streamed it, so I'm going to chalk all the artifacting up to that, but there are bits where there's flickering light at the bottom of the picture and a couple of places where it looks like the master tape was crinkled.  Nothing deal-breaking.

Anyway, probably the best Pertwee serial I've seen (yet -- Inferno's supposed to be a classic and that's next on my list); must-rent and worth buying.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on December 12, 2008, 01:51:59 PM
Doctor Who Classics Series 2 #1 is out, and contains the line, "Good Lord! >Choke<"

Not a bad read, still overpriced, and while I love the Fourth Doctor and Dave Gibbons I'd really like to see some variety.  The two issues of Morrison doing the Sixth and Seventh Doctor were a great change of pace, and there have to be some decent comics out there featuring the Fifth or the Eighth Doctor, too (and maybe the first three; I don't know how far back the Who comics go).
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on December 28, 2008, 11:31:55 AM
Inferno, it turns out, is another great Pertwee serial that is available through Netflix (disc only, no streaming).

Essentially, it's like Mirror, Mirror, except instead of Spock with a goatee, it has Brig with an eyepatch.

It's a little long (could be one episode shorter -- he spends the entirety of the first episode in the parallel universe trying to explain to everyone that he's from a parallel universe), but really it runs at a great pace overall and has a whole lot more action than most Who from that period.

The parallel universe is used to good effect, emphasizing characters who are much different (the Brigade Leader is a coward hiding behind his gun and his rank) as well as characters who are more or less the same (the pompous Professor Stahlman, who would doom the world rather than take a blow to his ego, and the dashing Greg Sutton, who defies him), with companion Liz Shaw somewhere in-between.

The best device, IMO, is that in episode 4 or 5 the Doctor outright tells the parallel cast that they're screwed and past the point of no return and there's nothing he can do for their world, but that he can still save his own, leaving several episodes for the parallel cast to come to grips with their certain impending doom and react accordingly.

The "there are some things man wasn't meant to tamper with" premise is stale, but works well for an apocalyptic "Earth ends in fire" story -- the ending of the penultimate episode, with a wave of lava coming toward the cast, while cheesily green-screened, is a striking image.

The finale is another episode that could safely be chopped in half, but it mirrors the events of the parallel world, with slight changes, satisfyingly.  The ending is vintage Third Doctor, with the Doctor and the Brigadier butting heads and then one of them forced to eat crow.

The transfer has all the usual flaws I've now come to associate with Pertwee-era serials, an often-grainy picture and occasional wavy lines.  I watched one episode (3 or 4) on an SDTV and it was a lot less noticeable.

There's also a second disc with extras on it; I assume they're neat but I'm not going to bother.

All in all, classic Who; worth renting, worth buying.  (It DOES help to have a cursory background knowledge of the Third Doctor's setup, that he's been exiled by the other Time Lords and trapped in 1970 London, and that at this point he's trying to fix his TARDIS so he can travel again.)
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on January 06, 2009, 08:01:45 PM
You know, I thought Revelation of the Daleks was pretty good -- good enough that it makes me want to check out more Sixth Doctor episodes, which I hear is an emotion most people rarely feel.

Probably the most interesting thing about it is that at this point the show had abandoned all pretense of being a kids' show -- while it doesn't have as high a bodycount as the previous Dalek arc, it's probably more violent, dark, and disturbing all around, with the most memorable scene being a woman searching for her father in a Ubik-like cryo-preservation center and finding his mutated head inside a Dalek armor.  (Yeah, we've got Davros mutating humans into Daleks here -- a precursor to The Parting of the Ways.)  That and every shot of Nicola Bryant's stockings or cleavage tend to prove the show was trying desperately to keep a now-teenage audience rather than acquire new viewers -- there's some parallel to be drawn between this and my "How the comic industry is fucking itself" musings in that other thread.

It veers off-course in places, with the first ep's cliffhanger resembling a game of Xanatos Roulette (even with cameras all over the place tracking the Doctor's every move, it's hard to figure how Davros knew Peri would see the Dalek and follow it to the Doctor's fake memorial), and the Doctor's broken pocketwatch feels a lot like an unfired Chekhov's Gun -- maybe it's covered in Trial of a Time Lord (I have very little interest in finding out; if Douglas Adams and Tom Baker couldn't get me to watch a season-long arc, I really don't see doing it for one that everybody seems to hate), or maybe it's just a way of destroying a deus ex machina like they did with the Sonic Screwdriver during the Davison era.

The biggest problem with the serial was the same as in the only other Sixth Doctor serial I've seen to date, Vengeance on Varos: the Doctor and Peri don't really DO anything, and the story would transpire pretty much the same without them.  Peri's got a good emotional moment in the first ep that is largely ruined by her "Where the fuck is she supposed to be from?" accent; she sounds more like a real person in the second half but overacts to the point of obnoxiousness.  #6 has a few good lines and makes me want to see more of him, but again, he doesn't really do anything.

Far and away my favorite part is the utterly nonsensical and downright surreal appearance of comedian Alexei Sayle as the DJ (everyone, including the supposedly-American Peri, pronounces his name that way, with the accent on the "J").  He has fuck-all to do with the story, and shows up a few times in the first ep to speckle the fourth wall and impersonate Elvis; in the second ep, he kills several Daleks with a beam of PURE ROCK'N'ROLL.  It's a very clear example of a celebrity guest star awkwardly shoehorned into a script, yet as far as I'm concerned, the result is completely awesome.

Other thoughts: the Daleks do not actually seem like a race that would have courts and trials.  (This plays into the opening of the 1996 TV movie, which piles on the additional questions of what the Master was doing there, why the Time Lords apparently sanctioned the Daleks' brand of justice, and why the Daleks let the Doctor show up on Skaro to collect the remains.)

Anyway!  Best Dalek story I've seen in a long time, better than Resurrection, Destiny, or either of their very bad appearances in the past two years.  I'd say it's worth a rental, but it's not that damn much more to buy it -- nobody loves the Sixth Doctor.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on January 11, 2009, 02:46:33 PM
You know, I thought Revelation of the Daleks was pretty good -- good enough that it makes me want to check out more Sixth Doctor episodes, which I hear is an emotion most people rarely feel.

Aaaaand Mark of the Rani has cured me of it.

The setting is interesting, and it's got the Master, and the Rani is a character with potential, but...it's pretty much terrible.  At this point I want to punch Peri in the mouth every time she opens it (though this actually makes me kind of want to check out Trial of a Time Lord just to see her die).

The fact that this is regarded as one of the better Sixth Doctor serials goes a long way toward explaining why everyone hates the Sixth Doctor.  Not worth buying, not worth renting, not even worth watching while drunk.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Brentai on January 27, 2009, 02:17:47 PM
Nothing.  Just wanted to see this thread's icon up near Galactica's.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on February 15, 2009, 04:54:53 PM
Unfilmed Sixth Doctor eps to be adapted for radio. (http://popculturezoo.com/archives/2031)  Given my previous comments on the Sixth Doctor, of course I don't know if this is a good thing or not, but by all accounts he's actually been quite good in his radio run.

And maybe Bryant's had time to brush up on her accent in the past twenty-five years or so.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Büge on March 06, 2009, 05:54:08 PM
Dalek wreckage discovered in a pond! (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/doctor-who/4935903/Dr-Who-Dalek-found-in-pond.html)
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on March 07, 2009, 09:32:51 AM
...that would be a great damn sequence to appropriate for the show, actually, rangers finding Dalek remains in a pond.
Title: Re: New Doctor Who
Post by: Mothra on June 20, 2009, 08:39:05 AM
Forgot to mention it, but I caught a Pyramids of Mars showing they were doing at a local theater a few weeks back. The crowd was mostly giggling stoners, which is understandable considering how cheesy this show tended to be, but only a handful of neckbeards, and the rest just cool cats enjoying some Who. Something about this fandom attracts some of the best, casual nerds this side of Firefly.

The episode was a good choice for a Baker story, him and Smith at their best. Dragged a bit when anyone got lost in the woods, naturally, but the last two parts were great fun. Liked seeing another pre-Time Lord menacing force in the galaxy, the Doctor legitimately outclassed and in danger.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Mongrel on June 25, 2009, 02:11:55 PM
Enterprising soul builds an incredible handmade Dalek. (http://dalekstorm.deviantart.com/art/dalek-storm-9-120967674)

Motorized wheelchair chassis allows it to ramble around at about 8kph (driven? remote-controlled? It's not quite clear), and it has working water cannons (LOL).

Cute.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on August 18, 2009, 08:16:57 PM
Remembrance of the Daleks delivers what it promises: not just Daleks, but also remembrance.  The Doctor travels back to 1963, to the same scrapyard where the series started, and throws out a slew of references to the earlier shows (including a delightful, R-rolling impression of Pertwee with "Now you listen to me, Brrrrrigadier! -- I mean, Group Captain.").

But it's less interesting for looking at what came before as what came after: in many ways, this serial is the template for the current series; all the coolest shit from Davies's run has seeds here.  The Daleks have gained some rudimentary time-travel capabilities and set their sights on the Time Lords in the hopes of perfecting the technology; meanwhile, their use of humans continues, and their factioning and infighting continues.

But more than that, it's the Doctor's depiction here that leads directly into the 2005 series.  When he executes his coup de grace, it's brutal, and he's utterly cold and remorseless.  #7 was really the first You Do Not Fuck With the Doctor Doctor, and even though I still haven't read the original Human Nature novel, I HAVE hit a moment of thinking, "Oh, well of COURSE it was originally written for the Seventh Doctor."  While the last few Dalek serials were marked with an increasingly annoying reluctance to violence on the Doctor's part, #7 has no such compunctions, and his actions here make it believable that he could bring himself to push that button, to annihilate his own planet and his entire race if that's what it took to destroy the Daleks.

And because of all that, it's quite a neat little serial -- not as good as Genesis or Revelation, but well worth the $9.50 at Amazon.  Not a good one to start off with; it's worth checking out An Unearthly Child, some Third Doctor stuff (Green Death and Inferno, as mentioned earlier, are my favorites), and some other Davros serials (at least Genesis and Revelation) first, and you'll appreciate it more if you've seen the current series too.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on September 07, 2009, 07:50:21 PM
Kinda (the first syllable is pronounced like "kin") is a Fifth Doctor serial.  It's not on DVD in the US yet, but I picked up a torrent because I read on Tardis Wikia (http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Steven_Moffat) that it's one of Moffat's two favorite serials.  After watching it, I don't quite share his enthusiasm, but I understand why he likes it.

The high concept is Dr. Strangelove set in the Garden of Eden.  The Doctor lands on an unspoiled planet with apparently-primitive natives, and finds a military expedition sent to survey it.  The second-in-command of the crew goes crazy, takes over, and decides he's going to blow up the world, while an evil entity enters the world through Teagan's dreams and launches an attack to force his hand.

The highlight is that dreaming sequence.  It's some Lewis Carroll fever-dream shit, and precisely the kind of thing you'd expect from a Moffat episode.  The other Moffat-y bits are the sense of confinement, of an oncoming and implacable enemy, and of a crew going crazy, as well as characters who speak in riddles.  And lots of iconic imagery.

In the end, my main problem with Kinda is that I just don't like the Fifth Doctor very much.  He's got this air of helplessness and incompetence about him.  During several of the sequences where he's at Hindle's mercy, I found myself thinking, "#3 would have just judo-chopped the motherfucker."

The last episode of the serial has the most straightforward story, and suffers from it.  The final confrontations with the antagonists are somewhat anticlimactic.  The ending DOES redeem itself a bit by being one of those nice oldschool short-and-sweet Who goodbye scenes that is utterly unheard of in the RTD era.

Ultimately, there are some great damn ideas in Kinda, and it's a perfectly solid serial, but I certainly wouldn't call it one of the best.  Worth a rental when it comes out Stateside.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on December 05, 2009, 12:09:13 PM
In comics: The Moderator, reprinted in Doctor Who Classics Series 2 #12-#13, is the best Fifth Doctor story I've ever seen.  It's short and sweet, has great monsters (including a giant killer robot with brain damage), and manages a down ending which is brief, brutal, and tells us everything we need to know about the Fifth Doctor without making him seem as helpless and incompetent as he did on the show.  (Although there's that aspect -- he fails to prevent a companion's death.  That's not a spoiler as it's repeatedly foreshadowed over the preceding stories.)

I think that's the end of Classics Series 2; from a Google search it appears that Series 3 will start with the Sixth Doctor.  No word yet on when we'll see the Alan Moore/David Lloyd stuff reprinted.


On Digital Versatile Disc: The Talons of Weng-Chiang is commonly referenced as a fan-favorite episode, so I gave it a look.  It probably didn't live up to the hype, but it was still pretty good.  It's a Fourth Doctor/Leela story in Victorian England, where they face off against the eponymous villain, who's a gestalt of Fu Manchu, Jack the Ripper, Dracula, and the Phantom of the Opera.  The Doctor plays a Sherlock Holmes-y role.

It's got a great setting, sets, and costumes, good characters, and fantastic Fourth Doctor dialogue.  The main thing working against it is its stereotypical portrayal of the Chinese -- some of this, like comments made by the English characters, is simply an accurate portrayal of the time the story's set in, but the character of Li H'sen Chang, played by an Anglo in heavy makeup, is damned awkward.

Those blemishes aside, it's a great story, with nice visuals and writing, and one of the Fourth Doctor's best, which is to say one of the series' best.

$15 at Amazon, and given how long it sat on my table before I watched it, I probably spent 2/3 of that just getting it from Netflix.  (Of course, I could have just streamed the thing.)  Probably cheap enough to warrant a purchase rather than a rental.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Royal☭ on January 14, 2010, 08:57:52 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqU0uC_yGCI
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on March 23, 2010, 04:38:07 PM
Checked out Carnival of Monsters, a well-regarded Pertwee serial.  Now I also regard it well!

It combines two classic SF tropes: time loops and alien zoos.  Picture Groundhog Day with more rubber sea monsters.  Also, xenophobic aliens in blue makeup that doesn't always cover their faces, and a lovable carny.

Good Pertwee, good supporting cast, good story.  Worth the $15 at Amazon.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on April 14, 2010, 11:28:49 AM
The AV Club has a pretty thorough little Doctor Who Primer (http://www.avclub.com/articles/doctor-who,39924/).  It's got a list of recommended episodes at the end.  I've seen all of them except Brain of Morbius, so into the queue it goes.

You can also kill an afternoon reading the comment thread.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Verde on April 30, 2010, 04:20:27 AM
Finally got round to watching the second part of Vengeance on Varos last night.

I vaguely remember watching repeats of the sixth Doctor when I was a child, but don't think I ever realised how terrible Colin Baker is as the Doctor. Maybe I'm judging him too early, but next up on my Boxee is The Mark of the Rani, and then the Trial of a Time Lord arc that takes up the entire Season 23, and I'm suddenly really not looking forward to them all that much.

Anyway, Varos was good despite that. Solid episode all round, but for a few niggling irritations.

It IS pretty good, and manages that elusive trick of still being topical 24 years later.  There's some 1984 in there, a bit of Fahrenheit 451, and a little Running Man
I'd also add a bit of Brazil too. Loved the theme, and it clearly served as Moffat's inspiration for the current season's Beast Below episode. Don't really have much more to add; Thad's pretty much got it down to a tee.

Quote
On top of that, the pacing is tight (though a bit off from what I've come to expect from classic Who, as this was after the shift from 25-minute to 45-minute episodes).  The makeup's good, but the sets are pretty drab; lots of identical metal corridors in this one.
At least in the second part, I noticed around the halfway point that it virtually faded out on a cliffhanger. Not sure about the background behind it all, but it did make me think it was some kind of contingency for if the show ended up staying ~25 minutes.

Disagree with you on the set dressing though. I thought the whole episode looked perfect for its setting, even if it did mean we were basically watching the Doctor and Peri run down the same three metre long corridor over and over again.

Quote
Peri was little more than a pair of jiggling breasts
I'm willing to forgive her terrible accent for this fact alone. And for the fact she got [spoiler]turned into a fucking bird for some reason[/spoiler].

Really hated how cheap the whole thing seemed though. Action sequences were poorly choreographed and acting often fell flat. It's as though they flat-out refused to do more than one take of anything. Add that to the fact the the Sixth Doctor apparently dresses as a clown, and I had something that my girlfriend told me she couldn't bear to sit through. And she's been otherwise fine with the older episodes of Doctor Who, even episodes made more than a decade before this one.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Mothra on May 31, 2011, 10:41:36 AM
The Doctor is gonna bust a cap in yo ass (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzmnPs64K74#)
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Caithness on June 14, 2011, 09:40:29 AM
I recently was granted access to someone's Netflix account, and I've been watching what they have available for streaming. Just one story each featuring the First and Second Doctor, but quite a few with the Third.

In The Aztecs, I learned that the First Doctor is kind of a big jerk.  I had seen The Mind Robber before on PBS, but I watched it again anyway. I really like the Second Doctor, even though he tends to whine a lot.

From the Third Doctor era, so far I've seen Spearhead from Space, The Three Doctors, and The Green Death. Something that really bugged me in that last one was when he took the newly operational Tardis on a test flight to Metabilis 3, but then hurried to Wales in a car when he got back.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on June 19, 2011, 05:32:20 PM
Oh hey, AV Club has a Doctor Who Classic (http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/tvshow/doctor-who-classic,186/) series now.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on July 09, 2011, 10:20:16 PM
Oh hey, just noticed City of Death (http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Doctor_Who_The_City_of_Death/70040322?trkid=2361637) is on Netflix Streaming.

Reminding everyone who hasn't seen this one yet: it's my favorite and it was co-written by Douglas Adams and formed much of the basis of Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Mothra on July 11, 2011, 09:05:51 AM
Wow, watched The Pirate Planet while I was in the hospital and I gotta say, it is easily my favorite classic Who so far. I've never seen an old Who so completely watchable and enjoyable.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on July 11, 2011, 05:00:08 PM
See, on the whole I thought it was pretty poor but had flashes of greatness.  (Think my rundown's in this thread somewhere.)

But yeah, that's another Douglas Adams one.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on September 15, 2011, 08:41:36 AM
So, apropos of our discussion of how Lucas should quit fucking with Star Wars, io9's review of the new release of  Day of the Daleks (http://io9.com/5840458/the-classic-dalek-battle-weve-been-waiting-40-years-for) makes the case that sometimes a Special Edition really CAN improve on the original.  (Also, it doesn't hurt that the original version is right there on the DVD if you prefer it.)

Quote
The special edition of "Day of the Daleks" is, in general, a bit of a revelation. As with a lot of the DVD-only special versions, the special effects have been brushed up with CG — but it goes quite a bit further this time, with the drab future now including horrible Daleky skyscrapers with the word "OBEY" plastered on them. The utterly terrible Dalek voices from the original have been replaced with Nicholas Briggs, who does the voices on the new series — and sound designer Mark Ayres actually hunted down a vintage ring modulator to create the proper old-school Dalek tones.

And then there's the battle. Instead of just three Daleks against a handful of soldiers, it's an impressive sequence now — because the producers of the DVD actually went back to the location where the battle scene was filmed in 1971 with a bunch of new Daleks and people in costumes, and filmed extra footage to slot into that sequence.

Sounds neat.  Probably the thing I'll miss most about Netflix discs is old Doctor Who; most of their streaming eps are (understandably) Tom Baker.

I'm still disappointed we haven't had any more DVD's featuring lost episodes animated by Cosgrove Hall.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Mothra on September 15, 2011, 12:41:52 PM
Recorded by Jon Pertwee in the 70's:

Jon Pertwee sings The Doctor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLXOO9PnnMQ#)
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on December 11, 2011, 12:17:52 PM
Two lost episodes recovered (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/12/11/five-thoughts-each-about-two-newly-found-doctor-who-episodes/): Galaxy Four Part 3, starring Hartnell, and The Underwater Menace Part 2, starring Troughton.  Not exactly the Holy Grail of missing episodes, but still, any new find is a good thing.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Krankor on December 11, 2011, 05:58:02 PM
Holy shit, can't wait to see em
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on March 15, 2012, 08:36:35 AM
io9 has a rundown of new Special Edition DVD's (http://io9.com/5893408/your-chance-to-discover-the-best-of-classic-doctor-who).  tl;dr seems to be that they're overpriced but they ARE some of the best episodes and are worth either renting or grabbing the sure-to-be-discounted not-special editions.

No mention of Netflix in TFA but last I checked it had a good bit of Baker and Pertwee.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on June 14, 2012, 01:08:19 PM
Which of Doctor Who’s 11 Doctors is your boss? (http://io9.com/5917293/which-of-doctor-whos-11-doctors-is-your-boss)
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Büge on June 21, 2012, 12:24:37 PM
I enjoyed Lexx. Will I enjoy Dr. Who?
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on June 21, 2012, 12:44:13 PM
I don't know.  I enjoy Doctor Who; will I enjoy Lexx?

I'd say check out Blink from the new series and City of Death from the original series; I think they're both streaming on Netflix in the States but I'm not sure if that's a thing in Canada.

Anyhow, those are my two favorites and give you a good idea what to expect of the show at its best.  For other recommendations, see this thread.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Shinra on June 21, 2012, 01:36:15 PM
The best way to describe Lexx is 'Doctor Who with dick jokes'. It's a bit (((lot))) less intellectual, but it's a pretty great series if you like really campy sci-fi.

Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Beat Bandit on June 21, 2012, 02:17:47 PM
'Doctor Who with dick jokes'
The boards got their own series and we're not even seeing royalties?
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Classic on June 21, 2012, 03:27:44 PM
Beat, you know anything we do would be nowhere near as grounded in reality or the masturbation of British historical figures.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on June 28, 2012, 09:20:45 AM
io9's got a piece called Classic Doctor Who’s Great Unsung Director (http://io9.com/5921892/doctor-whos-great-unsung-director-michael-ferguson), referring to Michael Ferguson and focusing on the new special edition release of The Seeds of Death.  I've never seen it (or his three other serials) and don't subscribe to the disc version of Netflix anymore but it sounds interesting, and there are rumors the Ice Warriors will be back in the upcoming season.

Resurrection of the Daleks is out in Special Edition too; I reviewed the previous version back on page 2 (http://brontoforum.us/index.php?topic=119.msg43965#msg43965).
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Büge on July 03, 2012, 08:26:30 AM
So I watched "Spearhead From Space". It's a little weak, but I can tell the series has possibilities. The Doctor didn't get nearly enough screen-time as I'd hoped, but it seemed like a good introduction to the franchise. Since he's got partial amnesia, I can learn things as he does, which helps a lot when you want to get into a series like this. The plot is serviceable. "Alien intelligence threatens to replace government with department-store mannequins" is just the kind of silly sci-fi boilerplate that it takes to get the ball rolling.

The characters are fairly decent. I was afraid the doctor would be dour and serious as the stills of Jon Pertwee I've seen have led me to believe, but he comes across as easygoing and mischievous. The Brigadier is the consummate military man: a bit put-upon by the Doctor's eccentricities, but professional. I particularly liked Caroline John's portrayal of Liz Shaw. She's cynical and acerbic, which makes a nice contrast to the Doctor's cool intellect.

Overall, I give it three out of five daleks. It's a decent start to the series.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on July 03, 2012, 08:32:46 AM
Huh -- apparently there's a Shada novelization by Gareth Roberts (http://www.tfaw.com/Books/Profile/Doctor-Who-Shada-Lost-Adventure-HC___404876) now.

Shada is the lost Douglas Adams serial that never completed filming due to a crew strike, and, like City of Death, introduced a bunch of ideas he later recycled in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency.

It's been released in multiple versions as it is -- there was a VHS edition which included the completed portions with some narration by Tom Baker to bridge the gaps, and then there was a radio version that shoehorned the Eighth Doctor in with a couple of rewrites (which was itself adapted with limited animation over at the Beeb (http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/episodeguide/shada/)).

Per Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shada), the original incomplete version is going to be part of an upcoming DVD set, and there's also a completed animated adaptation (http://www.starburstmagazine.com/features/feature-articles/915-doctor-who-and-the-shada-man) of the missing episodes (with somebody else playing the Fourth Doctor) that was supposed to get a DVD release but isn't.  On the one hand, that's a damn shame (because it was apparently pretty good (http://www.starburstmagazine.com/reviews/doctor-whotv-episode-reviews/929-doctor-who-shada)); on the other, yeah I can see people being uncomfortable with someone besides Baker playing #4.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on July 03, 2012, 09:02:02 AM
So I watched "Spearhead From Space". It's a little weak, but I can tell the series has possibilities. The Doctor didn't get nearly enough screen-time as I'd hoped, but it seemed like a good introduction to the franchise. Since he's got partial amnesia, I can learn things as he does, which helps a lot when you want to get into a series like this.

Don't count on the amnesia lasting; that's just a side-effect of the regeneration.  He's pretty much status-quo by the next serial.

That said, the purpose of any given regeneration is to set up a new status quo and act as a friendly jumping-on point.  #3's run, in particular, is a serious departure from the rest of the series; most of it's earthbound and (then-) present-day.

It DOES introduce a lot of aliens and races for the first time, including the Autons (as you note), the Silurians (an excellent serial BTW), and the Master (though his backstory is that he and the Doctor have known each other since school, so his first appearance doesn't feel much like a first appearance).  The Brigadier is of course a returning character, as the story makes clear, but his reintroduction tells you everything you need to know about him.

The plot is serviceable. "Alien intelligence threatens to replace government with department-store mannequins" is just the kind of silly sci-fi boilerplate that it takes to get the ball rolling.

Which is exactly why Davies used the Autons to kick off the current series in '05.

The characters are fairly decent. I was afraid the doctor would be dour and serious as the stills of Jon Pertwee I've seen have led me to believe, but he comes across as easygoing and mischievous.

Most iterations of the Doctor freewheel between lighthearted eccentric and intimidating master of time and space.  Pertwee is a favorite of mine; he's a complex Doctor, alternately cranky, arrogant, apologetic, curious, sanctimonious, driven.

And he's the Doctor most likely just to fucking Venusian Judo-Chop the bad guys.  Funnily enough, the two manliest incarnations of the Doctor are the one who wears black leather and the one who wears red velvet.

The Brigadier is the consummate military man: a bit put-upon by the Doctor's eccentricities, but professional.

The Brigadier is probably my all-time favorite companion (and to hell with quibbling over whether or not he "counts" as a companion).  He really is the best foil the Doctor ever had; they're so alike and so different, the Brigadier just as stubborn as the Doctor and the two of them often philosophically opposed.  And Courtney is JUST. SO. GOOD.

I particularly liked Caroline John's portrayal of Liz Shaw. She's cynical and acerbic, which makes a nice contrast to the Doctor's cool intellect.

Again, I was surprised, on reading her obit the other week, to find that she was only in four serials (and that I've seen three of them).  You get a good enough feel for her character in just a few episodes that they can pull a reversal in Inferno (Doctor Who's version of Mirror, Mirror) and highlight the similarities and differences in Parallel Liz.

I like Jo but she's just not the same, and in terms of Female Empowerment she's definitely a step backward after Liz.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on July 06, 2012, 09:41:09 AM
Charlie Jane Anders likes the Shada novelization. (http://io9.com/5923024/douglas-adams-lost-doctor-who-story-becomes-rather-a-fun-book)

In brief: she thinks it's a perfect example of Adams being at his best with a good editor; she believes the original had some clever ideas and a wonderful character in Professor Chronotis, but a mess of plot holes and weak supporting characters which Roberts has taken the time to patch up.  She believes it preserves the strong stuff, fixes the weak stuff, and comes out as a solid story without trying to ape Adams's prose style (she mentions in the comments that she hated And Another Thing).

I've never read any Who novels; I'll probably check this one out once it's in paperback.  Still haven't gotten around to Moorcock's Who book and that seems like a fun place to start.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on August 31, 2012, 07:32:02 AM
io9: Old-School Doctor Who Episodes That Everyone Should Watch (http://io9.com/5939314/old+school-doctor-who-episodes-that-everyone-should-watch)

I've seen the whole list except Robots of Death and Caves of Androzani; while I think a couple of items on the list are overrated (Dalek Invasion of Earth, Tomb of the Cybermen) I think I generally agree that they're Important.

Good recommendations in the comments, too, as you might expect.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on October 11, 2012, 01:18:50 PM
Caroline John (http://io9.com/5920283/how-caroline-john-helped-save-doctor-who), who played Liz Shaw.  (Was she really in only four serials?  Hell, I've seen three of them.)

And the reason I hadn't seen the fourth, The Ambassadors of Death?

It's just now out on DVD (http://io9.com/5950733/at-last-you-can-see-doctor-whos-james-bond-tribute-the-way-it-was-meant-to-be-seen).  Apparently it's yet another case of old masters being destroyed; most of the episodes were only available in black-and-white prior to this, but a group called the Doctor Who Restoration Team has managed to use some kind of mad science to restore the original color.

This has been a long time coming -- long enough that it's got a commentary with John and Courtney on it.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on December 06, 2012, 11:32:39 PM
Guide to Watching Old Doctor Who on Netflix Now that Netflix Done Fucked Everything Up (http://www.corporate-sellout.com/index.php/2012/12/06/netflix-does-something-stupid-and-annoying/):

Quote
See, now instead of having the old Doctor Who serials split up by title — Horror of Fang Rock, Caves of Androzani, and so forth — they've combined them all under a single heading, Classic Doctor Who (http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Classic_Doctor_Who/70231692).

Which may sound like a good idea — and it would be, if it were put together by someone with a basic understanding of how human beings locate things! — but sadly, it was put together by complete goddamned morons.

See, instead of being sorted by serial titles, the series is split up into 18 "collections". Numbered. 1-18. And you have to click on the number of the collection to see what serial's actually in it.

Which might make some sort of sense if they had the complete series split up into seasons. Or had at least one serial from every season. Or, I don't know, even put them in the right damn order. But they don't. Here's the order:

  • The Carnival of Monsters [sic] (1973)
  • Horror of Fang Rock (1977)
  • Pyramids of Mars (1975)
  • Spearhead from Space (1970)
  • The Androids of Tara (1978)
  • The Ark in Space (1975)
  • The Aztecs (1964)
  • The Caves of Androzani (1984)
  • The City of Death [sic] (1979)
  • The Curse of Fenric (1989)
  • The Green Death (1973)
  • The Leisure Hive (1980)
  • The Mind Robber (1968)
  • The Pirate Planet (1978)
  • The Power of Kroll (1978)
  • The Ribos Operation (1978)
  • The Three Doctors (1972)
  • The Visitation (1982)

And it took me actually listing them all out where I can see them all at once, but now at least I understand how they're sorted: they're alphabetical, sort of. Except nobody bothered to add the convention of dropping articles from the sort, so serials beginning with "The" (which is nearly all of them) appear under "T".

(Except The Carnival of Monsters — probably because that is not actually the title of the episode; it's just called Carnival of Monsters, which does fit the sort. Which indicates that maybe the database has both a display title and an indexing title for each episode — but who the hell even knows.  Especially since City of Death isn't actually called The City of Death, either.)

[...]

Amazon, meanwhile? If you type in "Doctor Who: The Caves of Androzani", the first match is Doctor Who (Classic) Season 21, which does in fact have a streaming video of The Caves of Androzani. They don't have as many episodes available for streaming as Netflix does, and some of them cost money to watch even if you have a Prime account. But they're sure the hell organized way better.

Of course, the easiest way to find any of these episodes, without worrying about availability, nonsensical navigation, or the possibility that you'll just find them all removed from your queue one day without notice, is just to torrent the damn things.

Kinda makes you feel like a chump for paying good money for Netflix and Amazon Prime, don't it?
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Büge on January 13, 2013, 01:48:06 PM
There's an audio drama on its way for the 50th anniversary, and it features the fourth through the eighth Doctors (http://www.thewrap.com/tv/article/doctor-who-audio-drama-featuring-5-doctors-due-out-november-72636). Apparently it'll include the first three Doctors, but it didn't say anything about the last three, which is why it's here.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on January 13, 2013, 04:58:22 PM
Hm -- wonder if they'll go with old recordings or recast them.  The Five Doctors did both -- it recast the First Doctor following Hartnell's passing, and used footage from the unfinished serial Shada since Baker refused to participate.

As I've said before, Sean Pertwee would be an excellent choice to fill his father's shoes.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Büge on January 26, 2013, 05:38:43 PM
Okay, so I'm slowly working my way through the Jon Pertwee series. The key word is slow. I'm only up to episode 3 of "The Ambassadors of Death", but I'm already noticing that the episodes follow a formula.

- UNIT finds out something's Not Quite Right with a seemingly mundane operation.
- They and the Doctor investigate
- Their invisible enemy has a man on the inside
- The Doctor goes exploring on his own (with Liz), finds out some HORRIBLE SECRET
- The HORRIBLE SECRET is not so different from you and I
- Surprise! Yes it is
- The Doctor and UNIT solve the problem using ingenuity and guns, respectively
- Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart threatens to take the Doctor's badge for being such a loose cannon
- DUM DEDUM DUM DEDUM DUM DEDUM OOOO-EEEE-OOOO

So are they all like that?
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on January 26, 2013, 05:45:36 PM
You left out the three middle episodes of the Doctor being repeatedly imprisoned and having to break out, but yeah, that's kinda how it goes for awhile.  It's still one of my favorite eras.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on February 23, 2013, 10:13:57 PM
The Big Whobowski (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AHdI25K-Oc#ws)
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on May 23, 2013, 01:32:30 PM
Dr. Who and the Daleks (Sample) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eeh-ZheFnY#ws)

Ten bucks. (http://www.rifftrax.com/vod/dr-who-and-daleks)
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Lottel on May 29, 2013, 07:55:07 AM
I watched the original of that and it was almost a word for word retelling of the Doctor's first meeting with the Daleks. Once they get there that is. The scene at the Who family home is pretty different.

And I'm not sure how faithful it stays as I could not watch all of the original original. Still, I was actually expecting a lot worse.
And Cushing's First Doctor Impression isn't bad, voice-wise.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Ted Belmont on June 13, 2013, 02:02:10 AM
Just rumor/speculation, AND it's BC, so take it with a Face of Boe sized grain of salt, but: BBC may have found a large number of presumed-lost old episodes. (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/06/13/wqill-doctor-who-have-a-very-special-surprise-for-us-in-november/)
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on June 13, 2013, 02:36:02 AM
I KNEW we sent Rodman to North Korea for a reason.





(Explaining the reference: a few years ago one of Murdoch's tabloids printed a story suggesting that Kim Jong Il had copies of some of the missing episodes.)

I'm sorta disappointed that the animation thing stalled; the animated episodes of The Invasion were perfectly solid.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on June 17, 2013, 12:34:50 PM
Update (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/06/17/more-on-those-missing-doctor-who-episodes-or-less/): Johnston suggests that BBC may have been taken in by a hoax.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on June 18, 2013, 03:33:36 PM
And the ping-pong game swings back the other way (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/06/18/the-doctor-who-missing-episodes-rumour-gains-a-little-more-weight-three-tons-worth/), with previously-skeptical Ian Levine now a believer.

If nothing else, archivist Philip Morris DOES appear to have received a 3-ton package labeled "old films" from Nigeria in 2011 (http://www.searates.com/es/contact/info/274803).  That certainly doesn't guarantee that there were 90 episodes of Doctor Who in there, but if it's a hoax it's a hoax by a guy who's either well-equipped enough to ship himself a 3-ton package from Lagos, or at least knows who to bribe at the shipping company to make their website say he did.

Also, from the thread I discover that they haven't stopped animating missing episodes after all like I thought they had after Invasion.  Reign of Terror came out a few months ago with a couple animated episodes, and Ice Warriors and Tenth Planet are on the way.  The missing Tenth Planet episode is rumored to be among the 90 recovered episodes (and would probably be the biggest find of the lot since it's the first regeneration episode), while even the people reporting the rumors are saying there won't be any Ice Warriors in there.  (Per Rich's earlier post: "The only ones not included are nine episodes of The Dalek Master Plan, plus Mission To The Unknown, two episodes of The Invasion, two episodes of The Ice Warriors, and two episodes of The Wheel In Space.")
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Mongrel on June 18, 2013, 03:46:48 PM
Quote
Nigeria

Hoo boy.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on June 18, 2013, 04:13:24 PM
Dammit, now you made me go and write this when I should be getting ready for bed.

Quote from: http://www.bleedingcool.com/forums/front-page-comic-news/71412-doctor-who-missing-episodes-rumour-gains-little-more-weight-three-tons-worth-2.html#post599236
DEAR TO MY FRIEND THE MISTER PHILIP MORRIS

I AM WRITING ON BEHALF OF THE HON. MGUMBU D'CHINBE, DUKE OF LAGOS. AS YOU MAY WELL KNOW THE ROYAL FAMILY WAS DEPOSED IN THE GREAT COUP OF 2006. THE DUKE IT IS BARELY ESCAPED WITH THE CLOTHES OF HIS BACK AND SUBSISTS NOW IN POLITICAL EXILE.

PLEASE TO BE ADVISED THAT THE DUKE THROUGH LOYALISTS STILL IN THE CAPITOL HAS REASONED A DEVICE BY WHICH TO RESECURING HIS VAST FORTUNE AND WEALTHS BUT HE IS UNABLE TO PROVIDE THE FUNDINGS FOR THE DEPOSIT OF MONIES.  WE NEED BUT A SMALL CASH ADVANCE OF TEN THOUSAND (1,0000) BRITISH POUNDS (LBS) AND WE WILL BE PROVIDE ALL THE DUKES MONIES ONCE MORE.

I BESEECH THAT YOU HELP US TO IN OUR TIME OF THE NEED AND PLEASE ASSURANCES THAT IN RETURN FOR YOUR GREATEST OF GENEROSITYS WE WILL REWARD YOU WITH THE DUKES 3 TONNES COLLECTION OF OLD FILM INCLUDING NINETY (90) LOST EPISODES OF DR WHO.

GOD BLESSING TO YOU



YOURS IN CHRIST

BENJAMIN JONES

Bleeding Cool apparently has a filter that changes all-caps messages to mostly-lowercase.  I think it loses something that way.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Mongrel on June 18, 2013, 04:42:25 PM
If it's any consolation, your effort wasn't wasted :lol:
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on June 19, 2013, 02:46:24 AM
I knew that post would have a double-digit number of Likes by morning.  There is a strong correlation between people who click "Like" buttons and people who think jokes about Nigerian scams are funny.

Anyway, someone in the thread's linked a map (http://www.wonderfulbook.co.uk/data/africasales.jpg) showing where in Africa various Doctor Who episodes were shipped.  90 all coming out of Nigeria seems, as we already knew, a little unlikely -- but they could very well have 19 Troughton episodes.  (This prompts speculation that someone somewhere along the line misheard "19" as "90" and, presumably, the list of episodes was embellished along the way.  It's as reasonable a hypothesis as any, especially since if someone WERE playing a hoax, I doubt they'd say "I have 90 episodes"; they'd say one or two.

And 19 would still be a pretty big deal.  Even one would be a big deal.)

At any rate, with the 3-ton shipping receipt this has turned into an interesting enough story that I'm really interested in hearing how it ends, even if it DOES turn out to be a hoax or misunderstanding or we otherwise end up with no new old Who whatsoever.

...and now I'm posting THIS when I should be leaving for work.  Dammit.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on June 20, 2013, 04:06:23 PM
And the latest denial: Philip Morris says nope, the three tons of movies he got from Nigeria do not include any Doctor Who (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/06/20/doctor-who-episodes-they-are-not-missing-but-destroyed-the-end/).

Tune in two days from now when Bleeding Cool posts another piece of evidence that no they really are real.

(Me, I'm quite curious as to what IS in the three tons of film, whether it's Who or not.)
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on July 05, 2013, 03:51:24 PM
#thefourth - Doctor Who - BBC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGC_DRgbc6I#ws)

Hm.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Caithness on July 05, 2013, 04:36:19 PM
What does it mean?????

(Youtube comments seem to indicate some sort of crossover with the Fourth Doctor guest-starring on the new show.)
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on July 05, 2013, 05:00:54 PM
Youtube comments are Youtube comments.

If Baker, or any previous Doctor besides Tennant [spoiler]and Hurt[/spoiler] is going to be in the Fiftieth Anniversary special, they managed to get him to a shoot without anybody noticing, which seems pretty unlikely given how the entire British entertainment press was on the lookout for that exact thing.  That doesn't rule out the possibility of more previous Doctors showing up throughout next season, which could still happen and which I'd love to see, but there's also nothing to substantiate that theory beyond fanboys really wanting it to be true.

On the other hand, a teaser like this suggests something more substantial than just hawking merchandise or upcoming DVD sets.  It's nothing to do with the alleged found episodes because Baker's not in any of them, and it's not related to An Adventure in Space and Time because that's about the beginning of the show and apparently focuses almost entirely on the Hartnell era, with Troughton briefly showing up in the ending.

And speaking of Hartnell and Troughton, well, clearly the #thefourth hashtag suggests we might be seeing more teases with more past Doctors -- so why start at Four?

Well, it could be because he had the longest run and is probably the best-known of the original seven.  But it could also be because he's the earliest Doctor who's still alive.

I DO think this is probably leading up to some announcement about past Doctors reuniting.  Maybe not on the show; maybe it'll be a retrospective or a convention or something.  It'll be interesting to see.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on July 07, 2013, 02:37:46 PM
Or it could just be a tease for the new (final) Baker DVD release.

#thefourth - Doctor Who - BBC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujA-y9c5h2I#ws)
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on August 10, 2013, 07:48:49 AM
BC's still on the "missing episodes found!" rumor -- most recently reacting to a post about 6 more episodes of Dad's Army (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/08/09/dads-army-the-smoking-gun-for-doctor-who-missing-episodes/).  The rumor was that the lost Who episodes were part of a major load of lost BBC tape, including Dad's Army.

Commenters suggest that Johnston is grasping at straws and it's actually just a bug in the BBC's website template that shows every show having 6 episodes.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: McDohl on October 06, 2013, 10:15:18 PM
Is the Mirror a tabloid?  It would seem so, but I don't know a thing about British journalism.  Anyway.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/106-doctor-who-episodes-uncovered-2343474 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/106-doctor-who-episodes-uncovered-2343474)

106 episodes found in Ethiopia.

If this is true, that closes a significant gap of missing episodes from Hartnell, Troughton, and Pertwee's eras.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Zaratustra on October 07, 2013, 01:25:36 AM
Most UK newspapers are tabloids so you can read them in the tube.

But yes, the Mirror is a "red top tabloid" and wouldn't be above posting a poorly-researched story for the sake of shock.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Smiler on October 07, 2013, 01:52:35 AM
On top of all that, this is the same rumor that was debunked a few months ago.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: McDohl on October 07, 2013, 09:59:31 AM
Oh.  Well, sad to hear.  But this is my first debunked "lost episode" rumor since getting in to Doctor Who!

Everyone remembers their first.  <3

Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Smiler on October 07, 2013, 10:28:07 AM
Ahahahah guess what.

The Guardian is reporting that there are episodes found. (http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2013/oct/07/doctor-who-early-episodes-recovered-bbc)

Also this is happening around Facebook right now.

(http://i.imgur.com/2mztc8u.gif)

For reference Ian Levine is usually the guy who's been saying NO GUYS THIS TIME FOR REAL every time, and Spilsbury is the editor of DWM.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Mongrel on October 07, 2013, 12:06:10 PM
Jesus, what the hell is even going on now?
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on October 07, 2013, 12:50:27 PM
Well, Ian Levine's been saying they're real since the shipping manifesto showed up in June; prior to that he was saying everybody was full of shit.

I don't think it's a stretch at this point to think some episodes have probably been found.  But 106 is a fuck of a lot.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on October 10, 2013, 01:53:03 AM
Radio Times is a real news outlet, right?

Because they're saying there's official confirmation of two recovered Troughton episodes (http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2013-10-06/doctor-who-newly-discovered-lost-episodes-to-be-released-for-sale-this-week), which will go on sale digitally this week.

The Mirror (http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/long-lost-doctor-who-episodes-unveiled-2345526) says there are more to come and the BBC has called a press conference for Tuesday.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Thad on October 10, 2013, 02:52:23 PM
2 serials, actually, not just 2 episodes.

9 episodes, all told (well, 11, but 2 of them had already been recovered): the entirety of The Enemy of the World, and all but 1 episode of The Web of Fear.  Apparently all of them are on iTunes now (haven't checked, don't use iTunes), and they'll be out on DVD in the coming months.

And yes they WERE from that shipment to Phillip Morris.  Be careful with words like "debunked" -- just because somebody denies something doesn't mean it's been debunked.

Anyway!  9 is rather a lot and something to be pretty thrilled about.  Could there be more?  I wouldn't rule it out but I wouldn't expect it either.  (What I think we can say for sure: they definitely did not recover Web of Fear Part 3; otherwise they would have released it with the rest.  Wouldn't be surprised if they animated it for the DVD release, but for now it's available as audio with stills.)

Wonder if Moffat knew about this when he decided to bring the Great Intelligence back.  Could be a coincidence, but on the other hand it would explain a lot.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Lottel on November 19, 2013, 05:15:39 PM
Next Saturday I'm going to a Classic Who con with 5, 6, & 8. Martha, the Sontarans, and the Daleks will be there too. And a few old companions, I think.

I'm having Peter Davidson sign a cricket bat and McGann sign his movie. Thinking of just having everyone else sign a big poster of something generically Doctor Who and non-Doctor specific. Any suggestions for picture to use or other things to sign?
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Lottel on November 23, 2013, 04:21:36 PM
Also I rewatched An Adventure in Space and Time and holy hells man.

It's a beautiful movie. Even if I didn't like Doctor Who or it was based on a fake TV show or something, I'd say it was a perfectly done movie and tear-jerking.
the fact it was about Doctor Who doesn't matter in the slightest.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Lottel on November 29, 2013, 01:40:03 PM
I met, talked to, and shook hands with Paul McGann, Peter Davison, and Colin Baker.

Also, I almost stepped on a turtle dressed as Tom Baker.
Title: Re: Old Doctor Who
Post by: Lottel on December 01, 2013, 08:28:26 AM
Probably last of the convention spam:
Peter Davison and Paul McGann are absolute pleasures to talk to. Peter tended to answer things a bit shorter and slightly less personal but was polite and very happy to be talking to people.
Paul was overwhelmed by the people and was constantly bewildered in a very... cute way. Like a puppy. He would just randomly go off on tangents and even introduce you to people like you guys were old friends.
Even Colin Baker was a lot better than the awful things I've heard about him.

But if you guys ever get a chance to see Paul McGann talk, go do it. His stories were fantastic and he was visibly touched that people were so excited to see him.