Brontoforumus Archive

Discussion Boards => Thaddeus Boyd's Panel of Death => Topic started by: Royal☭ on October 10, 2008, 12:15:17 PM

Title: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on October 10, 2008, 12:15:17 PM
So the media is starting to notice that McCain and Palin are stoking the flames of a heated culture war in our society (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/09/AR2008100903169.html).

We've all seen the videos of the various McCain rallies (http://brontoforum.us/index.php?topic=1286.msg32838#msg32838) and how his constituents view Obama and liberals.  Two weeks ago nobody cared about Bill Ayers.  Nobody knew what ACORN was or had even heard about it.  But now McCain is trading on these non-issues to encourage anger and hate at his rallies, and it's reaching a creepy boiling point.  Attendees routinely call out to kill Obama, accusing him of treason and of being a terrorist.  In an effort to salvage his own campaign, McCain is driving a deeper wedge between conservatives and liberals at a time when the whole country needs to be working together, not viciously attacking each other.

Now liberals and more progressive types aren't entirely blameless here, often times viewing the right as contemptuous and ignorant.  But I don't see my liberal friends hinting that McCain or Palin might be terrorist, just unqualified.  I'm not seeing them openly call for John McCain to be killed.  And that's where the problem lies.  As the right pushes to have the left be viewed as subhuman, mentally ill or as dangerous terrorist, unhinged individuals might take solace in this and find reason to act on their darker impulses.  While it's shocking to read stories about people like Jim David Adkisson shooting up a Unitarian church (http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/jul/28/church-shooting-police-find-manifesto-suspects-car/), the culture wars I'm seeing almost seem to encourage this behavior.  Mr. Adkisson repeated a lot of the talking points and tropes that O'Reilly, Michael Savage, and Sean Hannity espouse in their books and in their TV programs, radio shows and syndicated columns.  They're not directly to blame, but they do offer a target and provide convenient excuses for the ill to target people.  If liberals are terrorists, treasonous, mentally disturbed, and godless monsters, then it must be okay for someone to take them down.

I don't expect riots in the streets anytime soon, and I don't expect lynch mobs to suddenly form and take progressive liberals screaming out of their houses to be executed, but it still feels me with disgusts and unease to see a major party candidate piddling the filth and hatred at his rallies as McCain does.  There is a dark, murderous past found in America.  A past that has resulted in the suppression to vote, public lynchings, and violent, clandestine murders.  If McCain wants to tap into that because he feels it's the only way he can win an election, then he can go to Hell.  A few weeks from now, hopefully we can put these barbaric lies he's spouting behind us and begin to repair the deep wounds in our country.  Until that happens, though, the only thing we can do is fight against the ignorant and support a candidate who isn't trying to scare voters or rally them to hate.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Bongo Bill on October 10, 2008, 12:29:07 PM
Maybe I'm traveling in the wrong circles from you, but I haven't seen anybody characterizing Obama as a terrorist, merely asserting that he is a political ally of a person who describes himself in that way. This strikes me as the sort of issue whose appropriate response would be to discuss it in the open: maybe it's important, maybe it's not. Maybe it will be revealed that Obama is a perfectly respectable liberal who cut a deal with disreputable elements out of necessity - heaven forbid that happen to a politician! - or maybe it will turn out that an extremist has an inappropriate amount of influence over him, or maybe something else altogether.

The point I guess I'm trying to make is that the sort of idiot who would skip all this concern and go straight to ALL LIBERALS ARE RADICALS AND PROBABLY DANGEROUS are probably the kind of idiots who would feel that way regardless of anything that happens in the news.

I also don't think it's fair to blame a candidate for having idiots among his supporters. But, then again, I'm naïve like that.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: sei on October 10, 2008, 02:05:43 PM
He's not complaining about McCain having them, but for pandering to them.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: François on October 10, 2008, 02:06:53 PM
It certainly is fair to blame a candidate for catering to those idiots. McCain absolutely depends on the vote of people who would cry tears of genuine relief if someone put a bullet in Obama's brain. He can't afford to lose that demographic. He has to choose between feeding the zealots, and outright giving up. And he's not going to let a little thing like extreme social polarization stop him.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: sei on October 10, 2008, 02:11:11 PM
To be fair, a lot of the left (and center) would be similarly relieved if something equally unfortunate befell Palin.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on October 10, 2008, 02:13:03 PM
Er, probably not.  As often as she instills the urge to kick in her teeth, I don't think the left is generally violent enough to actually want to see a woman killed for being stupid and misguided.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: sei on October 10, 2008, 02:17:55 PM
It's not a matter of wanting to see her killed; it's a matter of her no longer posing the threat of potentially holding such large sway over how others live their lives.  It's not "thank goodness, she's dead;" it's "thank goodness, we won't have to deal with a second Bushshe won't be in a position to fuck things up for everyone."
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on October 10, 2008, 02:29:28 PM
Er, probably not.  As often as she instills the urge to kick in her teeth, I don't think the left is generally violent enough to actually want to see a woman killed for being stupid and misguided.
Uhm. Riiiiiiiight.

Do you want me to post a long list of violent leftists? Would you prefer American ones only, or will international ones be acceptable?

Come on guys, you should know better.



Anyway...



Ignoring this, I think that America has long had a very uncomfortable, ambivilant, relationship with intellectual and the left.

I think that the states have always prized 'ingenuity' and 'cleverness', but have been a lot more wary pure intellectuallism, or anything that smells like academia. And on your worst days, a terrible fear of anyone who seems smarter comes out. During times like these, people like Sarah Palin, who pander to the absolute lowest common denominator, are very comforting.

I don't know, blame the Revolution*, blame whatever you want. But I always find that latent hatred to be so absurd when it comes out. If only it wasn't so terrifying.

*I can state with absolute confidence that the character of Canada was very heavily defined by that same revolution. It is no mistake at all that the American Constitution contains the famous provision for 'Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness', where the Canadian equivilant stated a desire for "Peace, order, and good government.". Three hundred years is not such a long time as you might think.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on October 10, 2008, 02:32:26 PM
I'd be pretty happy if she up and rejected the nomination tomorrow.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: François on October 10, 2008, 02:32:47 PM
If McCain gunned Obama down himself, X amount of people would call him a hero.
If Obama shot McCain instead, Y amount of people would call him a hero.

X > Y

Probably.

...now I have this mental image of Obama pointing a gun sideways at McCain's head, all saying "looks like you were right about me, cracka", then pulling the trigger. And to my own shame I find it hilarious.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Bongo Bill on October 10, 2008, 02:37:41 PM
Maybe when you say "pandering" I am thinking of something else than you are; I haven't seen any demonizing of liberals coming out of the McCain campaign. The demonizing that is happening is aimed at people who apparently go a great deal beyond "liberal" and into territory where there's genuine cause for alarm.

If, on the other hand, you were referring to the way his campaign isn't doing anything to disabuse his idiots of the delusion that being left-of-center is tantamount to treason, then I suppose that's true. But it's Obama's behavior, rather than McCain's, that has any claim to being the exception to that strategy (and good for Obama! Seriously!). Allowing the die-hard bloc to think that the other side of the aisle is going to fuck everything up is an ancient (as these things go) tradition. Not that I like it, but I think that if that particular kind of intolerance were going to lead to calamity, it would have done so already. Certainly the last seven years would have been much bloodier.

And I'm stepping out of this discussion before it turns into a thread about whether liberals hate conservatives more than conservatives hate liberals.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on October 10, 2008, 02:39:17 PM
Only because your average violent liberal supported or wasn't bothered by gun control policies.


EDIT: I mean to say, only because I suspect most liberals, at least urban ones, aren't particularly in any position to have the south rise again or something.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Kashan on October 10, 2008, 02:50:40 PM
Maybe when you say "pandering" I am thinking of something else than you are; I haven't seen any demonizing of liberals coming out of the McCain campaign. The demonizing that is happening is aimed at people who apparently go a great deal beyond "liberal" and into territory where there's genuine cause for alarm.

If, on the other hand, you were referring to the way his campaign isn't doing anything to disabuse his idiots of the delusion that being left-of-center is tantamount to treason, then I suppose that's true. But it's Obama's behavior, rather than McCain's, that has any claim to being the exception to that strategy (and good for Obama! Seriously!). Allowing the die-hard bloc to think that the other side of the aisle is going to fuck everything up is an ancient (as these things go) tradition. Not that I like it, but I think that if that particular kind of intolerance were going to lead to calamity, it would have done so already. Certainly the last seven years would have been much bloodier.

And I'm stepping out of this discussion before it turns into a thread about whether liberals hate conservatives more than conservatives hate liberals.
Did you just miss the McCain add which paints Obama as the Anti-Christ? Or Palin saying that McCain was the only man in the race with courage? The way they're connecting Obama to Ayars isn't via some intellectual examination of their actual connections, it's by screaming that Obama is friends with a terrorist. They're trying to blame him for the economy via ACORN without using any arguments of substance. They're playing on base fear, anger, and xenophobia. At least Palin as hatchet woman is.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 10, 2008, 03:12:48 PM
Maybe I'm traveling in the wrong circles from you, but I haven't seen anybody characterizing Obama as a terrorist, merely asserting that he is a political ally of a person who describes himself in that way.

Yes.  Because they're doing so much to emphasize the nuanced difference between the two.

Bongo, Sarah Palin's exact words were, "This is not a man who sees America as you and I see America. [...] Our opponents see America as imperfect enough to pal around with terrorists who would bomb their own country."  What do YOU think she's trying to say?  Because what I, and even as middle-of-the-road a news outlet as the AP, get is "He is a scary black man who hates America and might be a terrorist."

This strikes me as the sort of issue whose appropriate response would be to discuss it in the open: maybe it's important, maybe it's not. Maybe it will be revealed that Obama is a perfectly respectable liberal who cut a deal with disreputable elements out of necessity - heaven forbid that happen to a politician! - or maybe it will turn out that an extremist has an inappropriate amount of influence over him, or maybe something else altogether.

You're talking about this like it's a huge mystery.  It's not.  It's all asked and answered.  Obama met Ayers DECADES after he was trying to bomb the Capitol (though he's still a pretty serious dick).  They served together, they were friendly but not close.

McCain has gone from a 15-point lead to a 10-point deficit in the month of September.  He is losing on the issues, so he's resorting to tenuous guilt-by-assocation scare tactics.

I haven't seen any demonizing of liberals coming out of the McCain campaign.

:scanners:

McCain's TV ads. (http://www.johnmccain.com/tvads/)  I...I really don't know what to add to that other than "Have you actually seen them, and, if so, could you please explain how you do not believe he has demonized liberals in general or Obama in particular?"

And that's BEFORE we get into the videos of people shouting "TERRORIST!" and "KILL HIM!" at rallies without McCain or Palin giving any kind of negative response.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on October 10, 2008, 03:36:07 PM
Hey, Bongo, those words in red are actually links.  If you follow them, you might learn something.  The more you know!

Here, an example, from CNN: Rage rising on the McCain side (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/10/mccain.crowd/index.html)

There's a lot of good material in that article alone covering what we're talking about.  The McCain rallies are reaching such a fever pitch that the media is starting to take notice.  Which is kind of surprising, as reporters and journalist have been getting attacked and insulted by the mobs for the last week or so.

McCain is clearly attempting to appeal to a deep cultural divide to win the election, but I fear it'll have far more disastrous consequences if he doesn't try and stem the tide.

As an aside, I would like to note that in that CNN article, they debunk a lot of what Palin and McCain have been saying.  That's unusually good coming from CNN, and I think even they are getting disgusted by McCain at this point.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Detonator on October 10, 2008, 03:47:13 PM
McCain finally says something to the crazy people. (http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/10/mccain_denounces_pitchforkwave.html)

I could accuse McCain of trying to play both sides here, but it's still good that he's publicly saying Obama is not a terrorist.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on October 10, 2008, 05:03:55 PM
Probably not "playing both sides" so much as "when people are blaming you for putting the idea of assassination into people's heads, you need to back off a little."
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on October 10, 2008, 08:46:09 PM
And probably just playing to one side, as revealed when his campaign comes out and says, "Hey, don't blame us.  It's Barack's fault" (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/10/1529529.aspx#comments)


I can only assume that with the way McCain acts as his numbers slip, that his next logical choice will be to try and bring a high-powered rifle to the next debate.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on October 10, 2008, 09:01:38 PM
...it occurs to me, this sort of "Obama's going to crash an airplane into Kentucky!" rhetoric is very clearly what Sarah Palin is aiming at, but I'm not sure at all if John McCain is at all responsible or even aware of it.  He may not be at all informed at what kind of muck his running mate is raking and is only now beginning to notice the shift in his constituents.  He wouldn't be the first Republican candidate to remain basically oblivious to his surroundings while events were mostly driven by his total rat-bastard of a running mate.

(The worst part about Sarah Palin is also her biggest strength: she is very literally one of the hateful women who show up at every gathering and accuse everybody they know of being a witch, terrorist, pedophile or whatever people have agreed are the Ultimate Evil this week.)

Also, am I the only one who thinks the narrator in those TV spots Thad linked to sound a bit like  :evil:?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 10, 2008, 09:51:14 PM
Probably not "playing both sides" so much as "when people are blaming you for putting the idea of assassination into people's heads, you need to back off a little."

An extreme example (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/1008082voter1.html), but a good reason to tone down the rhetoric:

Quote
Angered by a delay in the receipt of his voter registration card, a Louisiana man today threatened election officials, claiming that he urgently needed to cast a ballot to "keep the nigger out of office," according to police. Wade Williams, 75, was arrested this morning on a felony terrorizing charge after allegedly calling the Registrar of Voters and warning that he would come to the state office and empty his shotgun unless he got his registration card.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: François on October 10, 2008, 10:55:29 PM
McCain finally says something to the crazy people. (http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/10/mccain_denounces_pitchforkwave.html)

I could accuse McCain of trying to play both sides here, but it's still good that he's publicly saying Obama is not a terrorist.

I saw these exact bits on CNN earlier today. And it looked to me that McCain was genuinely overwhelmed by all this fear and hatred. He almost had that "what have these hands wrought?" look in his eyes. I almost felt like pitying him. Almost. At this point it must feel like courting the NAMBLA vote.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 10, 2008, 10:59:42 PM
Or the Klan vote.

Well, the ones not voting Obama because they think it'll prove their point, anyway.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: James Edward Smith on October 10, 2008, 11:10:49 PM
Quote
Indeed, he just snatched the microphone out the hands of a woman who began her question with, "I'm scared of Barack Obama... he's an Arab terrorist..."

"No, no ma'am," he interrupted. "He's a decent family man with whom I happen to have some disagreements."

He better feel bad about it and if they end up giving him the white house in the end then he better still feel bad about it.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on October 11, 2008, 05:53:59 AM
I have a little more respect for him now, that really did seem like a "Oh shit this has gotten way out of control." moment.

The problem, as has been pointed out earlier many times, is his desperation. He is painfully desperate to become President. Perhaps he thinks it will validate everything he has done, perhaps he thinks it will validate his life, but regardless, he's sold his soul to get where he is. I know it's an old gambit to blame the "wicked advisors" for subverting the "noble leader", but I think that at this point, he's just being pulled along in the current of whatever gets suggested at the HQ brainstorming sessions. No matter what, he is still the leader of his campaign and bears responsibility for his subordinates' actions.

That is, without question, a crushing failure as a leader. Worse yet for McCain, Obama just demonstrates so poetically that you need not sell out to gain votes. All that talk from the last 15 years (or longer) about people desperate for a 'true leader', well, Obama is exactly what a true leader looks and sounds like.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on October 11, 2008, 07:03:05 AM
Hard to say, Obama just might have really competent people (actually, we know he does, which is why it's actually somewhat hard to gauge his personal effectiveness as a leader.)

Whether McCain can control his people or not is a non-issue - he's running for Bush's seat, and nobody voted Bush in thinking that he had things under control or even was entirely cognizant of what was even going on.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Doom on October 11, 2008, 07:38:20 AM
Quote
Hard to say, Obama just might have really competent people (actually, we know he does, which is why it's actually somewhat hard to gauge his personal effectiveness as a leader.)

"Here lies one who knew how to get around him men who were cleverer than himself." - Andrew Carnegie's epitaph.

Bush was also the sort of guy who never let a little thing like caution or doubt get in his way. But you know, without being a determinator in a Shonen manga.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Arc on October 11, 2008, 08:30:09 AM
He wouldn't be the first Republican candidate to remain basically oblivious to his surroundings while events were mostly driven by his total rat-bastard of a running mate.

McCain is oblivious to nothing. The plan was to keep Johnny on message, while stepping back as if he's the one with honor and principle. Unfortunately, the negative campaigning has only moved his unfavorable ratings down further, and his fanatical supporters are beginning to gain unwanted attention.

Palin began the Ayers line of attack last Saturday, and has yet to relent, saying now that supporters are egging her on to go even further (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h21ZbzgPbTVRftcJPT5vkHkonY5QD93NU5OO0). The advertisements followed, claiming Obama is in league with terrorists right now. Cindy McCain stated that this is the dirtiest campaign she has ever seen, despite reports that McCain is airing 100% negative ads, while Obama is only airing 34% (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h_aCh8L4AX04vKgpsWmd1GRw0AcgD93N50180). Fox News is dangerously complicit  (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/10/jon-stewart-rips-fox-news_n_133659.html), but the most telling aspect is McCain's own (delayed) reaction:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf6YKOkfFsE

The man himself is being booed by the crowd here for not catering to their fears, but then again, these aren't his people. They belong to Palin, who is still perfectly content with digging the hole deeper. As is the campaign itself, which is now targeting Michelle (http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/mccain_campaign_goes_after_mic.php) on Ayers, and becoming defensive about their gutter trash supporters (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/10/1529529.aspx).
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on October 11, 2008, 09:34:47 AM
I like how he corrected "He's an a-rab" with "No, he's a decent family man".  The two are, of course, mutually exclusive.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on October 11, 2008, 10:01:52 AM
Well, it saddens me to see that there are so many people so misguided in this country as to see so much of the world as evil, and to appear onlookers as evil themselves.  But, it does make the hypothetical sound of America's collapse a bit sweeter.  It also instills me with an optimistic view of the election's outcome.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on October 11, 2008, 11:46:03 AM
But, it does make the hypothetical sound of America's collapse a bit sweeter.

No, no.

As bitter, cynical, and schadenfreude-happy as I am, even I have the sense to realize that this is something none of us want to see in our lifetimes.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on October 11, 2008, 11:53:16 AM
I wholeheartedly agree, Mongrel.  I'm just saying there's one or two grains of sugar hidden in the vast desert of salt.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on October 11, 2008, 02:42:28 PM
I thought we had been watching it helplessly since the millennial turn.  A nation doesn't implode overnight, but you can see the progression pretty easily if you compare today's U.S. to 2000.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on October 11, 2008, 02:52:04 PM
GRAPHS! FIGURES! MAPS!
I wanna see this progression!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 11, 2008, 04:06:46 PM
I know it's an old gambit to blame the "wicked advisors" for subverting the "noble leader", but I think that at this point, he's just being pulled along in the current of whatever gets suggested at the HQ brainstorming sessions.

Poetic justice given that this is pretty much the mistake Gore and Kerry (and, for that matter, Hillary Clinton in the primaries) made.

McCain is oblivious to nothing.

...too easy.

The plan was to keep Johnny on message, while stepping back as if he's the one with honor and principle. Unfortunately, the negative campaigning has only moved his unfavorable ratings down further, and his fanatical supporters are beginning to gain unwanted attention.

True.

I like how he corrected "He's an a-rab" with "No, he's a decent family man".  The two are, of course, mutually exclusive.

In fairness, she was probably about to call him more than "Arab" before he interrupted her.

I thought we had been watching it helplessly since the millennial turn.  A nation doesn't implode overnight, but you can see the progression pretty easily if you compare today's U.S. to 2000.

I'd argue it's been happening since the Johnson Administration.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on October 11, 2008, 04:29:21 PM
I know it's an old gambit to blame the "wicked advisors" for subverting the "noble leader", but I think that at this point, he's just being pulled along in the current of whatever gets suggested at the HQ brainstorming sessions.

Poetic justice given that this is pretty much the mistake Gore and Kerry (and, for that matter, Hillary Clinton in the primaries) made.

Note that I still pointed out that he's ultimately responsible.

EDIT
I'd argue it's been happening since the Johnson Administration.

I'd maybe put it in Kennedy's lap, but it's close enough that I think we're essentially looking at the same trends.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 13, 2008, 10:45:13 PM
...Incidentally, I predicted the "McCain supporters exhibit nasty racist side, McCain drops in the polls" situation back in May:

I think the uglier the racism gets, the more backlash we're going to see -- there are a lot of people, both Democrats and Republicans, who are embarrassed by racism within their respective parties and who would be more likely to vote Obama simply to distance themselves from bigots.  Again, I don't see that swinging the election, but I think it's going to swing some votes.

(Guildenstern, of course, immediately told me that was "a silly assertion to make."  :whoops:)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on October 13, 2008, 11:24:43 PM
Except the effect you predicted is actually the cause in this case.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 17, 2008, 11:45:50 AM
Joe Killian's blog (http://joekillian.wordpress.com/2008/10/17/how-i-became-joe-sixpack/): Joe claims to have been kicked by a McCain supporter at a Palin rally.

philly.com (http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20081017_Obama_campaign_seeks_extra_security_amid_threats.html): Obama campaign is tightening its security.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 17, 2008, 04:37:02 PM
McClatchy: Death threat, vandalism hit ACORN after McCain comments (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/54360.html).

Quote
[Spokesman Brian] Kettenring said that a senior ACORN staffer in Cleveland, after appearing on television this week, got an e-mail that said she "is going to have her life ended."

A female staffer in Providence, R.I., got a threatening call from someone who said words to the effect of "We know you get off work at 9," then uttered racial epithets, he said.

McClatchy is withholding the women's names because of the threats.

Separately, vandals broke into the group's Boston and Seattle offices and stole computers, Kettenring said.

The incidents came the day after McCain charged in the final presidential debate that ACORN's voter-registration drive "may be perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history" and may be "destroying the fabric of democracy."

McCain's comments provoked a response from ACORN.

"I would not say that Senator McCain is inciting violence," Kettenring said, "but I would say that his statements about the role of this manufactured scandal were totally outlandish. We would call on Senator McCain to tamp down the fringe elements in his party."

Quote
a candidate whose campaign is so thoroughly invested in race-baiting, war and oil.

I get the war and oil, but race? Citation needed.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Guild on October 17, 2008, 04:42:18 PM
Again, cause and effect. McCain isn't telling people to do anything, and while I agree he should take some action, the responsibility isn't his.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Burrito Al Pastor on October 17, 2008, 04:49:04 PM
McCain isn't telling people to do anything, and while I agree he should take some action, the responsibility isn't his.

Quote from: The Penguin
Can I help it if I have enthusiastic fans?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l63SRpGXBHE
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on October 17, 2008, 04:56:19 PM
Again, cause and effect. McCain isn't telling people to do anything, and while I agree he should take some action, the responsibility isn't his.

Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 17, 2008, 05:01:12 PM
Again, cause and effect. McCain isn't telling people to do anything, and while I agree he should take some action, the responsibility isn't his.

Ah, okay, that clears it up.  You don't understand what "baiting" means.

...wait...

:oic:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Arc on October 17, 2008, 05:08:18 PM
 :justasplanned:

That was beautiful.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Guild on October 17, 2008, 05:10:04 PM
You're claiming McCain is intentionally baiting his reactionary base into threatening members of ACORN?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on October 17, 2008, 05:12:32 PM
A man who could not have predicted this effect is not fit to be a leader, especially of this country.

...which, again, means that you're arguing that your man is too incompetent to be malicious.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Romosome on October 17, 2008, 05:40:25 PM
You're right, it's Sarah Palin's for trying as hard as she can to drum up people into what look to be two clicks away from lynch mobs.  McCain has merely shown he's an incompetent leader who has little to no control over his own suboordinates, or knowledge of their actions.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Spaco on October 17, 2008, 06:10:06 PM
Has Obama brought up Troopergate at all? I don't see how she can go around accusing him of "not telling the whole story to the American people" after that was resolved.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Guild on October 17, 2008, 06:17:04 PM
Quote
A man who could not have predicted this effect is not fit to be a leader, especially of this country.

I don't think it's unreasonably optimistic to assume people won't start killing members of a random organization over, of all things, the dying issue of race. In fact, it's a bit obtuse of you to call for the leader of our country to be cognizant of the zillion possible ramifications of every speech he/she gives on this week's Hot Button Issue.

Edit: I'd like to amend that last sentence to read: It's downright ignorant of anyone to blame McCain for anything a racist does until McCain says "Let's kill niggers." The old sentence is stretching things, I admit.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Doom on October 17, 2008, 06:19:18 PM
Quote
dying issue of race

10/10, I raged hard.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on October 17, 2008, 06:20:31 PM
Okay, I'm just going to leave it at "you're not qualified to be President of the United States either."
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Guild on October 17, 2008, 06:24:20 PM
The issue of race is dying with the ignorance that is racism (just a bit more slowly).
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 17, 2008, 07:34:44 PM
So your argument, Guild, is that McCain has no idea that racists exist?  Or is it that he just didn't think they'd get fired up when he stoked their fears of the scary scary black man?  Or, wait, I think the other day it was that Sarah Palin is vestigial and will magically disappear on November the 6th.

...At least as far as that goes, you're right.  But only because McCain's going to lose.

Or is your argument that nobody could have possibly seen this coming?  Because in that case I'd like to refer you back to five months ago, when I saw it coming.  And you told me I was wrong.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Spaco on October 17, 2008, 08:29:17 PM
As a sociologist, I'm really interested to hear why you think race is a dying issue.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on October 17, 2008, 08:59:22 PM
How can saying "These people are horrible criminals!" to an angry mob not be meant to incite violence?

And yes, they are an angry mob.  It is utterly undeniable that they are an angry mob.  If you even think of trying, WATCH THE FUCKING PALIN RALLY VIDEOS AGAIN.  And no, I'm not saying, all, or even most McCain supporters are in the pitchfork party.  But there are thousands of them, and that is enough to spell trouble.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Bal on October 17, 2008, 09:22:47 PM
Where the hell do you live that race is a dying issue, Guild? Because it certainly isn't Arizona, whence McCain and I hail, and it certainly isn't any of the other parts of country I've lived in or visited. In my experience the only people who claim that race is a dying issue are the people who would prefer it remain a present but subterranean one.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on October 17, 2008, 09:25:15 PM
But I wanted to be a Moloch...
Oh well.

pitchfork party.
A pitchfork party sounds kind of cool! ::D:


As a sociologist, I'm really interested to hear why you think race is a dying issue.

This was actually the subject of a really scathing anthropological article I read. It was for a class, don't think I'm some kind of worthwhile person who pursues knowledge for its own sake or anything.
Anyway, the gist of it goes that people will claim not to be racist and that their prejudgements aren't based upon race, but by a curious co-incident correlation that has nothing to do with race (of course) but just so happens to fall along those lines.
It is also commonly argued that their racist attitudes are not based upon race, but upon cultural differences (especially based on economic divisions). Unfortunately, these same attitudes and long-standing practices (which reinforce one-another) within the mechanisms, through which even the white under-privileged were (but not anymore, THANKS W!) able to amass some wealth to pass on to their children, are essentially exploitive barriers to the advancement of the even less-privileged.

Or so the argument goes. I'm going to see if I've still got it on my machine (I should) and pass it on to you if you're interested.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Arc on October 17, 2008, 09:29:52 PM
I'll just leave this here,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbbcVNOMqSk
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Guild on October 17, 2008, 09:51:27 PM
As a sociologist, I'm really interested to hear why you think race is a dying issue.

Quote
The issue of race is dying with the ignorance that is racism (just a bit more slowly).
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Burrito Al Pastor on October 17, 2008, 10:11:58 PM
This was actually the subject of a really scathing anthropological article I read. It was for a class, don't think I'm some kind of worthwhile person who pursues knowledge for its own sake or anything.
Anyway, the gist of it goes that people will claim not to be racist and that their prejudgements aren't based upon race, but by a curious co-incident correlation that has nothing to do with race (of course) but just so happens to fall along those lines.
It is also commonly argued that their racist attitudes are not based upon race, but upon cultural differences (especially based on economic divisions). Unfortunately, these same attitudes and long-standing practices (which reinforce one-another) within the mechanisms, through which even the white under-privileged were (but not anymore, THANKS W!) able to amass some wealth to pass on to their children, are essentially exploitive barriers to the advancement of the even less-privileged.

What's worse: discriminating against poor black people because they're poor, or discriminating against them because they're black?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 17, 2008, 10:23:41 PM
I'll just leave this here,

That's a Star of David on the ghost's head; sort of odd that nobody mentions the anti-Semitism alongside the racism.

As a sociologist, I'm really interested to hear why you think race is a dying issue.

Quote
The issue of race is dying with the ignorance that is racism (just a bit more slowly).

Guild, quoting something you said earlier to answer a question doesn't really work as well when IT'S THE EXACT SAME STATEMENT THE PERSON WAS QUESTIONING.

All this "I'm being totally serious here" protestation is sort of hard to buy when you keep doing shit like that.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Guild on October 17, 2008, 10:27:45 PM


God hate's nigers and fag.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on October 17, 2008, 10:36:47 PM
So you're trying to make racism an issue by loudly asserting that it is a non-issue.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Romosome on October 17, 2008, 10:43:44 PM
thank god Guild says racism is dead so he has the opportunity to tell people that are horrified by that statement that racism is bad.

A brilliant plan.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Romosome on October 17, 2008, 10:47:12 PM
Also, I know saying this is hypocritical after indulging in this bullshit, but you're all derailing whatever topic you originally had to play debate with Guild while he just jerks off about his "powers" of manipulative retardation by saying shocking things and giggling as everyone reacts.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on October 17, 2008, 10:47:37 PM
Guild, I'm not entirely sure what you've said. I think you just said that you say the "race is dead" clap and use it to go on a tear and say a bunch of sensible things, and then followed it up with, "If we keep saying it's true, it will be true eventually". To which you add... "Dattebayo" :shudder:
I'm not sure I can read anything right now. So, if this turns out to be completely retarded in the morning I am so sorry.


What's worse: discriminating against poor black people because they're poor, or discriminating against them because they're black?

I'm pretty sure I'm not really driving at the point properly, but the idea is that racism masks itself as discriminating against the poor. So there's not really any difference in the racists of today (or rather, the late 90's) using "cultural and economic differences" to justify their racism and the racists of the past.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Guild on October 17, 2008, 10:55:28 PM
Then there's always a Romosome nearby to spit on the whole process. What a huge hater.

So you're trying to make racism dead by loudly asserting that it is dead.

What does Dattebayo mean? I thought that icon meant something like "The more you know!" It was supposed to be self-effacious.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on October 17, 2008, 11:02:13 PM
I wasn't talking about the icon. That will indeed work as "The more you know!" I'm gonna have to say wiki for it yourself.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Guild on October 17, 2008, 11:06:08 PM
Meh, it's probably not that important.

Edit: Ha.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on October 17, 2008, 11:16:46 PM
So you're trying to make racism dead by loudly asserting that it is dead.

You're trying to make people ignore it by getting them to not ignore it by telling them to ignore it because you want them to... um...

Quote
(http://www.joelconstantine.com/gallery/d/191-1/ignoreme.gif)

Aha!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Guild on October 17, 2008, 11:36:47 PM
Quote
You're trying to make people ignore it


No.  :wat: I think you and I missed each other thoroughly in this exchange. I'm just going to erase the damn post.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 18, 2008, 12:32:46 AM
Also, I know saying this is hypocritical after indulging in this bullshit, but you're all derailing whatever topic you originally had to play debate with Guild while he just jerks off about his "powers" of manipulative retardation by saying shocking things and giggling as everyone reacts.

I was totally ignoring him but then like 10 people kept replying to him and there was no point anymore.

But maybe we SHOULD split this extra stuff over to Guild's Opinions like we did with the other thread.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: sei on October 18, 2008, 12:34:23 AM
I was sort of hoping the split would be named "Guild Wars," but if we made a new thread for every Guilderail...
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Bal on October 18, 2008, 12:36:49 AM
The supposition that racism is disappearing and that therefore race is becoming a non-issue is flawed on a number of levels.

First, it presupposes that racism is disappearing. If by "disappearing" you mean "rarely stated openly" then perhaps you have a point, but to say that the overall racism held by people personally is declining in any significant way is, at the very least, unsupported by any evidence I have seen.

Second, even accepting the first part as true, the issues associated with race are not 100% tied into racism. Cultural differences can create problems in an environment of total racial equality and acceptance.

Thirdly, your assertion that ignorance = racism, and therefore an less ignorant person is a less racist person is demonstrably false. Many very intelligent, well educated people are also virulent racists. Racism is closer to religious faith than it is a mere lack of knowledge. The racist knows that the object of their hate is all the things they believe them to be. It doesn't matter what contrary evidence is presented to them, that's just more evidence.

This isn't universally true, obviously, but to dismiss racism as mere ignorance is to empower it in a way.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Guild on October 18, 2008, 12:59:46 AM
Quote
The supposition that racism is disappearing and that therefore race is becoming a non-issue is flawed on a number of levels.

First, it presupposes that racism is disappearing. If by "disappearing" you mean "rarely stated openly" then perhaps you have a point, but to say that the overall racism held by people personally is declining in any significant way is, at the very least, unsupported by any evidence I have seen.


Your refutation of my premise lacks punch.

Quote
Second, even accepting the first part as true, the issues associated with race are not 100% tied into racism. Cultural differences can create problems in an environment of total racial equality and acceptance.

You've got me. It's mostly a way to open up discourse, which I believe is the proper answer to bigotry in all its forms.

Quote
Thirdly, your assertion that ignorance = racism, and therefore an less ignorant person is a less racist person is demonstrably false. Many very intelligent, well educated people are also virulent racists. Racism is closer to religious faith than it is a mere lack of knowledge. The racist knows that the object of their hate is all the things they believe them to be. It doesn't matter what contrary evidence is presented to them, that's just more evidence.


Woah, woah. I did say racism was ignorance, but I did not say that an intelligent person cannot be ignorant.

Ignorance in people with a high IQ is especially insidious.

Maybe we should use another word besides intelligent. How about "enlightened, non-shitbag member of society?"

Whatever word you use, racist geniuses aren't going to blind me with science while I'm armed with not being a complete retard myself. And if they're out championing racism, I can go out and champion a celebration of the similarities between all humans.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Kazz on October 18, 2008, 01:05:15 AM
LIKE TITTIES
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Bal on October 18, 2008, 01:30:01 AM
Whatever word you use, racist geniuses aren't going to blind me with science while I'm armed with not being a complete retard myself. And if they're out championing racism, I can go out and champion a celebration of the similarities between all humans.

This is missing the point by a wide margin. It's not that intelligent racists are going to win people over to there sides with their massive intellects. In fact I have no idea where you even came up with the notion. My point is that racism is not simply ignorance, and to dismiss it as such is to empower racism in general. To say that a racist is "just ignorant" excuses the racist, whether you intend it to or not. This isn't to say that ignorance isn't a factor, obviously it is, but it's a deeper seated issue that just not knowing any better.

The second sentence there just comes off as "look how tolerant and enlightened I am" chest thumping
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: sei on October 18, 2008, 01:36:33 AM
It's not that intelligent racists are going to win people over to there sides with their massive intellects. In fact I have no idea where you even came up with the notion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Bal on October 18, 2008, 01:38:55 AM
I meant where he got the notion from what I said.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: sei on October 18, 2008, 01:41:12 AM
K.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Guild on October 18, 2008, 02:14:11 AM
Whatever word you use, racist geniuses aren't going to blind me with science while I'm armed with not being a complete retard myself. And if they're out championing racism, I can go out and champion a celebration of the similarities between all humans.

This is missing the point by a wide margin. It's not that intelligent racists are going to win people over to there sides with their massive intellects. In fact I have no idea where you even came up with the notion. My point is that racism is not simply ignorance, and to dismiss it as such is to empower racism in general.

Who is dismissing what now? Calling racism ignorance is labeling it, not dismissing it.

Quote
To say that a racist is "just ignorant" excuses the racist, whether you intend it to or not. This isn't to say that ignorance isn't a factor, obviously it is, but it's a deeper seated issue that just not knowing any better.

Can you elaborate on the bolded selection? I don't really see it as much more than a very limited number of vocal hate mongers leading a larger number of ignorant sheep around by their noses, honestly. Reminds me of a church, actually.

Quote
The second sentence there just comes off as "look how tolerant and enlightened I am" chest thumping

Well that's exactly what it was.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Bal on October 18, 2008, 02:39:42 AM
Who is dismissing what now? Calling racism ignorance is labeling it, not dismissing it.

Quote
Can you elaborate on the bolded selection? I don't really see it as much more than a very limited number of vocal hate mongers leading a larger number of ignorant sheep around by their noses, honestly. Reminds me of a church, actually.

It is an implicit dismissal of the issue. By labeling the racist ignorant you have classified him and excused him. "Oh" the mind thinks "he's just ignorant". He's not ignorant, he's possessed of a deeply held, and to him well justified belief that a certain segment of the population is evil by default. He can tell you why, and he knows the arguments against him. That's not mere ignorance.

That said, obviously racists are people too. Some will be more ignorant than others, more apt to follow the lead of another, or more apt to lead themselves, but again, to simply label the whole lot of them ignorant is to label racism as ignorance, and that is simply not the case.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Arc on October 19, 2008, 10:11:53 AM
58-year-old (woman) Obama campaign volunteer assaulted by homeowner. (http://www.wisn.com/politics/17754232/detail.html)

:angry: ACORN!!!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Arc on October 20, 2008, 02:27:57 PM
74-year-old woman, 46-year-old man with Obama signs received death threat letters... "will result in the immediate death of all family members." (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-villa_park_signoct17,0,1501910.story)

Dead black bear cub found dumped on the Western Carolina University campus, draped with a pair of Obama campaign signs, university police said. (http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200881020067)

Tires of 30 cars slashed @ Obama Rally (http://www.fayobserver.com/article?id=307949).

Fake anthrax letter sent to South Philadelphia office. (http://www.myfoxphilly.com/myfox/pages/News/Politics/Detail;jsessionid=589A8C331016E5F367B7FBF9A45B0D42?contentId=7644286&version=11&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.14.1&sflg=1)

Reporter who played Ann Coulter rip-off in the film W. beaten and stabbed. (http://www.arktimes.com/blogs/arkansasblog/2008/10/breaking_news_5.aspx)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: on October 20, 2008, 02:48:29 PM
Holy fucking Jesus.

What the hell is going to be the overall impact of this on the elections, other than
"Now presenting, Senator Barack Obama", and 400 Secret Service Agents pour out of black Ford Explorers before the man himself takes the stage?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As Yoji on October 20, 2008, 02:57:22 PM
terrible news

horrible news

Holy fucking Jesus

Seconded. I think I'll need a bigger :ohshi~: emote.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on October 20, 2008, 04:15:00 PM
Reporter who played Ann Coulter rip-off in the film W. beaten and stabbed. (http://www.arktimes.com/blogs/arkansasblog/2008/10/breaking_news_5.aspx)

This.

An actor, doing her job... of playing another actor.  Probably Republican herself, considering her living situation.  One can only hope it's actually just the actions of one of those news-reporter fetishists we occasionally get imported from Japan and not actually a political statement written in the blood of one who's innocent even of Thinkcrime.

Dead black bear cub (http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200881020067)

Equivalent to flag-burning in this state.  You'd get a nice small cell with the largest homosexual we can find.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Arc on October 20, 2008, 08:16:30 PM
It's clobberin' time! (http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/20/204023/54/741/636920)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltnWuFLcomY
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on October 20, 2008, 08:58:00 PM
Quote
In western Hays County, Texas
!

I... I wasn't there to stop it... I'm a horrible superhero.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on October 21, 2008, 08:23:33 AM
(http://www.ejumpcut.org/archive/jc46.2003/kreider.raimi/spiderman.images/dyingdad2s.jpg)With great power...comes great responsibility...HURK(http://www.corporate-sellout.com/skullman-dead.gif)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 21, 2008, 05:48:55 PM
...Have avoided posting on this because the source is Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/17/report-mccain-using-same_n_135699.html), but I've seen it corroborated in less-biased outlets like The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/20/uselections2008-democrats), so...

...those nasty anti-Obama robocalls we've been hearing about?  Not only is the McCain campaign funding them, but the firm responsible for them is the same one that ran the "illegitimate black child" smear campaign against McCain 8 years ago.

So to anyone who's still claiming McCain hasn't sold his soul and embraced the dirty politics he previously decried, well...yeah, he kinda has.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on October 21, 2008, 06:36:39 PM
Kind of makes you wonder if John McCain is just a plant, and the original John McCain wasn't taken to the same place they took the original Michael Jackson.


Yes, Dracula's Moon Castle.  I know.

Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Arc on October 22, 2008, 10:13:48 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8EyGpOU3qM

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on October 22, 2008, 11:47:34 AM
Woman attempts to handcuff Karl Rove (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/10/22/dnt.ca.rove.protester.kgo).

After she's done, cuts to a clip of Karl Rove blaming the vile Democrats from stopping the saintly Republicans from regulating the Hell out of the economy.  Rove then proceeded to say that "AMERICAN AM NOT EVILEST COUNTRY!  OBAMA FOR SUPERMAN!"
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Romosome on October 22, 2008, 11:53:12 AM
Psst. (http://brontoforum.us/index.php?topic=44.msg36279#msg36279)

It really does fit better in this topic though, you're right.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on October 22, 2008, 11:55:34 AM
I'd just read that, too...

What the hell is this?  He names himself quick and he beats me to the punch?  What happened to Slowmosome?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Romosome on October 22, 2008, 11:57:27 AM
CAFFEINE!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on October 22, 2008, 01:57:46 PM
Oh, okay.  I kept thinking that I was somehow repeatedly reading the same topic.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on October 23, 2008, 01:05:10 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRnp4rocd68&NR=1

The culture war isn't the video (mostly). It's the madness all around it.
Warning: May cause vomiting.


EDIT:
By all around it, I mean in the poster's mad frothing, and the anger of the idiots replying underneath (I say they're idiots because they're making comments on youTube).
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Arc on October 23, 2008, 08:01:47 AM
Tires of 30 cars slashed @ Obama Rally (http://www.fayobserver.com/article?id=307949).

Caught. (http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/23/10356/541/78/639633)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Sharkey on October 23, 2008, 03:26:11 PM
Watched the video before reading the comments/description. That's missing the point so badly that people behind you have to duck.

As an actual Socialist I'm offended by all these accusations of Socialism.

Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Arc on October 23, 2008, 04:41:17 PM
Leave it to the men folk to do the yelling and sideshows, while the women and children perform the heavy lifting.

James Dobson Letter From 2012 (http://www.wnd.com/files/Focusletter.pdf) (.pdf)

A truly wonderful future if it so occurs. Now where have a I heard all of this before? (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58781)

Quote
Since Hillary was elected in '08...

:mahboi: Future events such as these will affect you in the future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xes0F36eTJA
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 25, 2008, 11:17:40 PM
Reporter who played Ann Coulter rip-off in the film W. beaten and stabbed. (http://www.arktimes.com/blogs/arkansasblog/2008/10/breaking_news_5.aspx)

She's dead. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/26/update-arkansas-anchorwom_n_137884.html)

The police are calling it a random act of violence, and there doesn't seem to be any evidence to the contrary.  Still a hell of a coincidence if that's the case, though.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Arc on October 26, 2008, 02:26:01 PM
:mystery: Her credit card was used at a Shell station next to the interstate leading out of town.

Authorities have yet to release any surveillance, but have recovered DNA of the suspect.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Romosome on October 26, 2008, 09:24:13 PM
http://wonkette.com/403828/national-review-liberals-hate-palin-for-not-having-abortions#more-403828
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on October 26, 2008, 10:56:49 PM
To be fair, I really do wish she had had more abortions.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on October 27, 2008, 06:48:13 AM
Pro-choice people feel guilty about abortions?  And repress it then venting it at Palin?!

Yes... we're the repressed ones....  While the Puritans over there on the right are utterly guilt free and comfortable with themselves and the people around them who happen to have great assesNO! NO! NO! NO! BAD THOUGHTS!  JESUS LOVES ME! I'M NOT GAY! :ohshi~:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Arc on October 27, 2008, 01:04:34 PM
ATF disrupts skinhead plot to assassinate Obama (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/S/SKINHEAD_PLOT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2008-10-27-16-21-21)

Quote from: AP
Federal agents have broken up a plot to assassinate Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama and shoot or decapitate 102 black people in a Tennessee murder spree, the ATF said Monday.

... federal agents said they disrupted plans to rob a gun store and target a predominantly African-American high school by two neo-Nazi skinheads.

Meanwhile,

Obama called a Successful And Attractive African-American at Palin Rally in Iowa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9T0FI2axbU

Quote
Palin: Obama...Barack Obama has an ideological commitment to higher taxes.
    The lessons I believe we have taught our kids would start to erode. Those
    lessons about work ethic, hard work being rewarded and productivity being
    rewarded...

    (Women yelling off camera in audience): And he's a nigger!

    Palin: And...and......lessons about, um, the
    virtues of freedom and independence while being generous and
    compassionate with others. Higher taxes, more government, misusing the
    power to tax leads to government moving into the role of some believing the
    government then has to take care of us. And government (boos from the
    audience) kinda moving into the role as the other half of our family making
    decisions for us. Now they do this in other countries where the people are
    not free.

Palin needs to buy a leash the next time she shops for lipstick.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Metal Slime on October 27, 2008, 01:28:47 PM
 :oh:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on October 27, 2008, 01:41:29 PM
You sure that wasn't her?  I would've sworn I saw it burst forth from her ear as it was so prominent in her mind that it couldn't be contained.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Arc on October 27, 2008, 11:14:36 PM
Two updates, first regarding the Palin Rally. Sources are claiming that the woman actually shouted "He's a redistributor." As with last time, (http://brontoforum.us/index.php?topic=35.msg7613#msg7613) this isn't at all what I'm hearing on the video, but would be direly reassuring if true.

Secondly, while the skinhead story sounds ridiculous on its face (with fantasies of dressing in white tuxedos and tophats), the reality becomes stark while browsing over one of their MySpace pages (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=348352208). This is the age we live in, in which an entire population can peek into a tiny little boys window of posturing. High caliber weapon at hand, and only a single smile available in that photo album (http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewAlbums&friendID=348352208).
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Romosome on October 28, 2008, 12:36:44 AM
Dozens Of Call Center Workers Walk Off Job In Protest Rather Than Read McCain Script Attacking Obama (http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/dozens_of_call_center_workers.php)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 28, 2008, 12:46:32 AM
Would LOVE to see that story hit the networks in the next couple of days.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: sei on October 28, 2008, 12:47:08 AM
Two updates, first regarding the Palin Rally. Sources are claiming that the woman actually shouted "He's a redistributor."
She said the democratic nominee was-a near.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 28, 2008, 12:51:56 AM
...My Republican grandmother today stopped me when I passed through the room for a glass of water, gestured at O'Reilly on the TV, and asked if I'd been paying attention to all the news from all sides.  I responded that it's interesting watching the Republican Party fight over who's responsible for McCain's poll numbers.  She said she meant about the "news" that Obama's real agenda is to turn America into a socialist state "more like Sweden".  I responded that Republicans accuse Democrats of socialism every chance they get but don't seem to have a problem giving $700 billion to failing banks.  She responded with something along the lines of but if the government didn't give the banks that money a bunch of people would lose their jobs.  I responded that that may be true but that doesn't mean it's not socialism, it just means that there are situations where she thinks socialism is appropriate.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on October 28, 2008, 07:53:35 AM
Wait, what's wrong with Sweden?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Bal on October 28, 2008, 08:01:45 AM
They help their people lead better lives, the filthy, bleeding heart, socialist, golden haired Adonises.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on October 28, 2008, 08:02:44 AM
Honestly now that it's brought up it seems like the perfect place to escape to.  I just gotta learn to speak Borkbork.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Arc on October 28, 2008, 08:25:23 AM
The majority of Swedes can speak and write in English. Go crazy.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on October 28, 2008, 08:30:17 AM
But, they'll take my wealth!  And.. and spread it!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on October 28, 2008, 10:15:25 AM
Swedish women can spread anything they please.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Romosome on October 28, 2008, 06:08:53 PM
Apparently McCarthyism is the hip new thing right now because dey teek er jerbs or some shit, I don't even know.

Nobody's even paying attention to what they're supposed to hate.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: JDigital on October 28, 2008, 07:36:02 PM
Obama.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Romosome on November 04, 2008, 01:22:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NyvYwfZR38

I love youtube.  I remembered the last part of this routine the second this thread started.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on November 15, 2008, 02:52:59 PM
The AP (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iEyLuiVkdd-f1RM5wnoR0kF4WbvgD94FHP480) has a laundry list of racial threats that have occurred since Obama's election.  Reading it's enough to really kill a good mood.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Metal Slime on November 15, 2008, 04:01:28 PM
The AP (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iEyLuiVkdd-f1RM5wnoR0kF4WbvgD94FHP480) has a laundry list of racial threats that have occurred since Obama's election.  Reading it's enough to really kill a good mood.

 :goggles: :endit:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on November 15, 2008, 04:18:28 PM
Thank you so much for banning Guild before posting that.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on November 27, 2008, 12:59:02 AM
Reporter who played Ann Coulter rip-off in the film W. beaten and stabbed. (http://www.arktimes.com/blogs/arkansasblog/2008/10/breaking_news_5.aspx)

She's dead. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/26/update-arkansas-anchorwom_n_137884.html)

:mystery: Her credit card was used at a Shell station next to the interstate leading out of town.

Authorities have yet to release any surveillance, but have recovered DNA of the suspect.

A suspect's in custody. (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/11/27/america/NA-US-TV-Anchor-Attacked.php)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on November 28, 2008, 01:00:28 AM
More from NYT. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/28/us/28beating.html)  Still no word on a motive or how he became a suspect; he has a history of minor infractions but not violent crime.

He's African-American and comes from a bad neighborhood, so demographically it's very unlikely that he attacked her because of her role in W (meaning this conversation doesn't really belong in this thread anymore).  Could be a celebrity stalker or a jilted lover or any number of other things, but odds are the police are right with their original suggestion that this was a random act of violence.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on November 28, 2008, 11:36:12 AM
Or it could be that a white woman was killed in Arkansas, so the first suspect is always going to be a black guy from a bad neighborhood.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on December 09, 2008, 09:54:00 PM
Man beaten to brain-death in Brooklyn (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/nyregion/10assault.html?hp), ostensibly for being Latino and having his arm around another man (actually his brother).

The divide's getting really ugly, and I fear it's going to get worse before it gets better.  Bigots are seeing their way of life slip away from them, and they're behaving like cornered animals.

I saw someone comment a few weeks back, in a comments thread about Obama assassination fears, that hey, he's got Secret Service protection, and would-be assassins up to this point have all turned out to be morons; the people who are much more likely to suffer are minorities who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and make convenient targets for aggressive crackers willing to take out their misplaced anger on the first dark-skinned person they see.

Not drawing a direct line between that and this case or anything, I'm just saying things have gotten tense and I fear they're going to get worse.  My neighboring city, Mesa, had the dubious honor of being the home of the first post-9/11 hate crime, where a couple of guys killed a Sikh at a convenience store because he was wearing a turban.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on December 09, 2008, 10:02:02 PM
It's always hard to tell if these incidents are getting more common or just better coverage, though.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on December 09, 2008, 11:38:44 PM
Well, it's not exactly the Deep South in the Jim Crow era.  And I don't think it'll ever be that bad again.  But I think it's probably both.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on December 10, 2008, 11:17:52 PM
Neo-nazi giving CD's to high school students (http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2008/12/10/they%E2%80%99re-back-racist-music-sampler-to-be-distributed-to-schools/), cheap and free.

Quote
“Remember,” he wrote, “we don’t just entertain racist kids, we create them.”

[...]

Asked what he hopes to accomplish with Project Schoolyard Volume II, Cecchini at first sounded like a typical ’sixties hippie. “Just rock and roll, man,” he said. “Why does anyone express themselves? Why does anyone do anything they do?”

I expect his reaction to being told what race of people invented rock 'n' roll would be roughly the same as his reaction to being told what religion Jesus Christ belonged to.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on December 13, 2008, 11:13:55 PM
One from the other side: Palin's church burned (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/12/13/palin.church/?iref=hpmostpop), possible arson.

Sort of obvious to say I am not a fan.  I dislike Palin and her insane church pretty damned strongly, but fuck anybody who resorts to violence to make a statement, political or otherwise.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on December 14, 2008, 01:39:17 AM
"Arson."  Right.  Sure.  Probably a witch-burning gone awry.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on December 14, 2008, 07:53:25 AM
That's right. Somebody arson around!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on December 14, 2008, 12:04:54 PM
Wonder if this arsonist carved a backwards B into the church door.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Saturn on December 14, 2008, 04:31:31 PM
see, if it was caused by a random act of nature it would be really fucking funny.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: François on December 14, 2008, 05:27:34 PM
I'm guessing someone wasn't paying attention around some propane tanks or whatever just after receiving their Flame of the Holy Spirit. These things are known to be pretty hazardous.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Romosome on January 28, 2009, 12:46:13 PM
This is pretty lighthearted and ultimately meaningless, and this thread could use some of that. (http://wonkette.com/405841/arkansas-legislature-votes-down-resolution-congratulating-obama#more-405841)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on January 29, 2009, 01:08:32 PM
This is pretty lighthearted and ultimately meaningless, and this thread could use some of that. (http://wonkette.com/405841/arkansas-legislature-votes-down-resolution-congratulating-obama#more-405841)

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=vcZ9ku_wInw
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As Yoji on January 29, 2009, 07:20:38 PM
Aw man, they cut it right before the random guy falling over in his chair when he looks up from his newspaper.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on January 29, 2009, 07:28:27 PM
Blazing Saddles is quite possibly one of my very favourite movies of all time. I'm pretty sure I have it almost entirely memorized.

This post has very little in relation to the previous one. :happy:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on April 15, 2009, 05:21:31 PM
Perry suggests that Texans may want to secede (http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=20009).

So, uh, anyone got I place I can crash when my state ignites?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on April 15, 2009, 07:03:06 PM
Don't most crazy Texans love the fact that they're part of America?  Even if they're pissed off, they would never allow some fucks in their state to secede.... Right..?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on April 15, 2009, 07:11:46 PM
Well we will once that fascist Osama I mean Obama becomes a tyrant who taxes my money and uses it to socialized health care and take away all of my guns!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on April 16, 2009, 05:28:50 AM
Chuck Noris says he'd run for president... of Texas (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/03/12/chuck-norris-for-president-%E2%80%A6-of-texas/)

Once we secede, our executive branch would be hella awesome. 
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on April 16, 2009, 08:15:02 AM
doitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoit :doit:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on April 20, 2009, 05:16:37 PM
Ron Paul weighs in on secession:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvliy8rEJDQ


Bonus from the comments:
Quote
It is the plan of the jews to keep the American sheeple stupid and dumbed down.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on April 20, 2009, 05:20:06 PM
(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd145/Brentai/4_62_usa3_320.jpg) I'm so wet.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: SCD on April 20, 2009, 05:33:29 PM
It's funny that the south is pitching to build borders at a time when the rest of the democratic world is looking for new and creative ways to bring them down...
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on April 20, 2009, 05:37:07 PM
Speak for yourself, I'd love to build a wall around them.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Romosome on April 30, 2009, 11:52:41 AM
So Fox didn't even broadcast President Obama's 100 day press conference and was the only major network to do so.

Now their pundits are asking why President Obama didn't call on any of their reporters during the press conference they refused to broadcast.

What a bunch of fucking toddlers.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on May 04, 2009, 06:54:19 PM
So I've been browsing around, when I came across a year old NY Times article about "Purity Balls" (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/19/us/19purity.html?_r=1)

Basically it's more evangelical clap trap about saving (the girl's) sex for marriage.  Also has a creepy angle to it about father's taking a domineering position in their daughter's sex lives.  That's all par for the course with creepy Bible-thumbers, though, and isn't what got my attention.  Instead, it was that in an image about girl's saving themselves for marriage and withholding from sex, this was the image they went with in the sidebar:

(http://www.joelconstantine.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=230&g2_serialNumber=1)

Oh yeah, you promise to abstain from sex until marriage, you dirty girl.   :jizz:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on May 31, 2009, 10:45:12 AM
Abortion doctor murdered in church. (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/01/us/01tiller.html?ref=global-home)

In CHURCH.

A Google search reveals that his church was a member of Lutherans Concerned (http://www.lcna.org/).  I spent last Christmas Eve at a Lutherans Concerned church and found it to be an inclusive, friendly place that really took all that "love thy neighbor" stuff to heart and welcomed all comers as God's children rather than damning anyone who doesn't toe the church line.  A heathen like me doesn't spend a whole lot of time in houses of worship, but it's a comfort to know that places like that are out there.

And so the church welcomed, and defended, a doctor whose specialty a lot of Christian denominations think is diabolical.

And he was assassinated by a right-wing terrorist as he attended Sunday service.

The mind-boggling thing about all this is that the killer, almost certainly a self-professed Christian, will go the rest of his miserable life without ever seeing any sort of irony in killing a man in church.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: James Edward Smith on May 31, 2009, 11:25:51 AM
I guess he wasn't a highlander.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on May 31, 2009, 11:52:29 AM
Just found out about this. The article I read doesn't say whether the killer was also a member of Tiller's church, which would make sense, I suppose.  Pretty fucked up either way.

I doubt abortion's going to be any less of a hot-button issue in Wichita now that Tiller's gone, though.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on May 31, 2009, 12:14:07 PM
I'm going to guess he probably wasn't.  The kind of guy who shoots somebody for performing abortions probably isn't going to attend a church that makes a point of welcoming the LGBT community.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on June 02, 2009, 01:13:35 AM
It's starting to sound like this was exactly the wrong abortion doctor to go and shoot. (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5glwt8eiNIcjIrxX83UkWIItkcf4gD98IDL700)

It may be extreme bias or perhaps this guy is just extremely martyrable.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Disposable Ninja on August 10, 2009, 02:31:43 PM
I was watching Fox News (not my choice, the restaurant I was eating at had it playing), and on it there was a guy going on a tirade against the G.I. Joe movie, because of how it portrays a certain minority: the wealthy.

Yeah.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on August 10, 2009, 02:54:19 PM
:THATWAY:  Minorities get to complain about that stuff because they're facing various levels of oppression due to public images of them.

I would like to say more, but I can't without somehow managing to shove my foot in my own mouth or just break down into the basic theme of the message: :fuckyou:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on August 10, 2009, 03:00:52 PM
Whatever.  FOX News has pretty much internalized the public perception that they're basically the Jerry Springer of mainstream news reporting at this point.  They know they're pandering to the bottom of the barrel now, and they've found there's a particularly rich sludge down there to scrape up.  When they seem to go screaming off the edge of the lunatic rightmost fringe, they're just playing a lot of disenfranchised stupid people with too much money for suckers, and I can't get particularly angry about that.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As Yoji on August 10, 2009, 03:03:39 PM
Last complaint I heard was about how the new movie is not American enough. No muscloids shooting the darned Japs with red-white-and-blue uniforms like in the good ol' days, but this cyber-ninja bullshit instead.

CLEARLY AN AFFRONT TO ALL THAT'S AMERICAN! SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on August 10, 2009, 07:50:00 PM
...I saw an article on Fox News today bitching about how Pelosi called people who disagree with her un-American.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Dooly on August 10, 2009, 08:10:18 PM
Seeing all this crazy bullshit whenever I see a television station with any kind of news on it takes a bit of the sting out of living with my parents in Canada.




Just a bit.





:loser:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: JDigital on August 10, 2009, 11:57:45 PM
Discovered today that Conservapedia's gone ban-crazy lately (http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Conservapedia:Blocking_the_planet): entire subnets, ISPs and countries, as well as any user who doesn't use their real name. Over 500 blocks in the past month, 742 in the month of June.

I could go on, but instead you should read this article by Philip J. Rayment (http://web.aanet.com.au/P_Rayment/Conservapedia/Index.htm), a Conservapedia admin who resigned in March of this year out of disgust over what Conservapedia had become. Some choice quotes:

Quote
Unlike many at RationalWiki and elsewhere who would like to see Conservapedia fail at its goal, like some others I wanted it to succeed at what it ostensibly is—a good, accurate, family-friendly encyclopaedia suitable for students written from a "conservative" or Christian point of view.  Unfortunately, I simply cannot see that happening, and my opinions have changed.

Almost three years since it began, most of Conservapedia's actual articles are still stubs. The longest articles are partially or wholly pieces of propaganda: even a relatively apolitical article like "deacon" has a section on why the Catholic church hierarchy is that of the pagan Roman church. Meanwhile, its front page has received as many hits in total as Wikipedia's front page does in a day.

Quote
Nobody seems to want to actually write encyclopedia articles. Certainly not among the leaders. Instead they seem to spend all their time having debates or attacking biologists or writing pseudo-articles like 'Liberal bias' or 'Hollywood Values'.

Articles created by Conservapedia founder Andy Schlafly's include several neologisms which he appears to have invented himself, seemingly to explain why he's always right and everyone else is a deceitful liberal: "Conservapedia's Law" (that the number of new conservative words invented doubles every century, proving conservatism superior), "emotional gambling", "evolution syndrome", "professor values", and "last wordism".

Similar articles, all started by Schlafly, about why anyone who doesn't agree with him is wrong: "liberal deceit" (why people who don't agree with me tend to be liars), "liberal myths" (claiming a population explosion is a trick to promote abortion), "liberal obfuscation", "liberal redefinition", "liberal tools" (hint: #1 is deceit), "liberal tricks", "liberals and friendship" (liberals will only be your friend if you accept liberal values), "liberal falsehoods", "liberal intellectualism", "liberal logic" (nonsensical logic), and "liberal supremacist". There's also a fantastic article called "Mystery: Why Do Non-Conservatives Exist?"

Quote
One of the more senior administrators, DanH, resigned in protest over the Barack Obama article. Another administrator had told me in an e-mail that he was also dissatisfied and was considering resigning in protest. I wondered if I should too, but also realised that such an act of protest was not seen by Andy or other administrators as cause to reconsider.

This refers to the article titled "Barack Hussein Obama", which includes a twenty-three point essay on why Obama is likely to be a Muslim.

Quote
Another user and I both produced evidence in the form of various authorities saying that the translation was changed. Andy, however, continued to insist that the claims that the translation was changed were false claims made by evolutionists. When he was challenged to produce evidence, he merely said that he'd spent too much time on the issue and that we should all move on.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Norondor on August 11, 2009, 03:21:57 AM
why

why do you care

why read it

they're aliens. they're devils. they're not human and can't be human. even looking at them, gesturing in their direction, making fun of them, grants them undeserved legitimacy.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on August 11, 2009, 05:45:52 AM
Because it's fun watching nutjobs be nutjobs.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Norondor on August 11, 2009, 01:21:20 PM
They're not nutjobs. That implies insanity. They're perfectly sane and know exactly what they're doing and they are doing it because somehow their values have become twisted and they want everyone everywhere to suffer and die.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: MarsDragon on August 11, 2009, 01:49:50 PM
It feels vaguely odd that we're calling them nutjobs and talking about how their values are twisted when they're busy writing articles called "Mystery: Why Do Non-Conservatives Exist?".

Then again, most of my family is stupid conservative, so I can see the brainwashing up close. Still, there's gotta be some way out of this pit.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on August 11, 2009, 02:31:14 PM
Still, there's gotta be some way out of this pit.

 :imagination:A well funded, and executed public education system :imagination:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Norondor on August 11, 2009, 02:46:41 PM
Still, there's gotta be some way out of this pit.

We will pile up the bodies of our enemies until the mound of waste blocks out the sun.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on August 11, 2009, 03:19:58 PM
THE SUN IS NOT A RIVER
:mahboi:
IT IS A SERIES OF TUBES

It's going to take a Chuck Norris kick to clear all this base out of the collective consciousness of the internet.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on August 11, 2009, 03:20:37 PM
I did not intend that to be a comment on the nature of "net culture," but you can take it that way. It would make me feel happy.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on August 11, 2009, 03:33:45 PM
Still, there's gotta be some way out of this pit.

(http://pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF077-Bunny_Pit.jpg)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Transportation on August 11, 2009, 04:35:42 PM
While I'm tempted use a model of reactionaries at the top and idiots at the bottom for most things, when people are actually saying they don't want to be taxed to pay for welfare on principle alone then, yeah, being ignorant on most things can't really contradict the maliciousness in that statement.

Fuck You I've Got Mine, etc.

Still, there's gotta be some way out of this pit.

We will pile up the bodies of our enemies until the mound of waste blocks out the sun.

they have numerical superiority and guns

this seems infeasible
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on August 11, 2009, 04:47:07 PM
But we have brains and ethics on our side! :nyoro~n:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on August 11, 2009, 05:06:30 PM
While I'm tempted use a model of reactionaries at the top and idiots at the bottom for most things, when people are actually saying they don't want to be taxed to pay for welfare on principle alone then, yeah, being ignorant on most things can't really contradict the maliciousness in that statement.

Fuck You I've Got Mine, etc.

The thing is, most of these people are religious.  Christian to be specific, and thus it should be possible to persuade them out of their hatred of the poor by appealing to them via the teachings of Ysha Yeshua Yesaus Jesaus Jesus.  The fuckers like Cheney, who hate the poor and are disciples of Satan himself not religious at all, however are still impossible to deal with at all.  Luckily, I really don't think they make up a significant amount of votes.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on August 11, 2009, 05:18:43 PM
I'm changing this thread icon to an anigif of a dog chasing its tail.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on August 12, 2009, 05:15:14 AM
Did somebody mention Fox News?

Don't know how we missed this one, but they apparently won a ruling saying they could legally lie to people all they goddamn want (http://ceasespin.org/ceasespin_blog/ceasespin_blogger_files/fox_news_gets_okay_to_misinform_public.html)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on August 12, 2009, 05:21:24 AM
 :MENDOZAAAAA:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Cthulhu-chan on August 12, 2009, 05:24:12 AM
Ha ha ha!  That's just great!  That really needs to be fixed!  Jesus-fucking-christ!

I can see the reasoning, but just NO.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Transportation on August 12, 2009, 05:28:22 AM
Well this looks familiar-
Quote
Appellate Court Rules Media Can Legally Lie.
By Mike Gaddy. Published Feb. 28, 2003

Well it seems some people didn't know about it so whatever.  :shrug:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on August 12, 2009, 05:32:15 AM
Fox News: We Have Legal Precedent To Shovel Pig Feces In Your Mouth.

Open Wide.

The death of journalistic integrity is nigh.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: François on August 12, 2009, 06:08:49 AM
Cue Fox News airing a report that they won a court case against someone who wanted them to stop reporting the truth.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: PhilosopherDirtbike on August 12, 2009, 12:40:12 PM
Huh. That wasn't very smart of them. I assume this whole thing with Fox is relatively new and not well spread. Once it gets widespread enough they will end up losing a huge amount of viewership and essentially become the Enquirer Channel. Who would believe someone who blatently claims to have fought for the right to lie to them? That seems like a really dumb move on there part to destroy whatever mock credibility they had built up.

I am pretty good at bullshitting and even I am having trouble coming up with a way to spin this for them to not look bad.

EDIT: Haha, this is an old story. That is disheartening  ::(:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As Yoji on August 12, 2009, 02:03:23 PM
Not to change the subject... but hey, that's what I do.

Old whitey in Missouri won't have anything to do with bus-ridin' socialist witches (http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/12462/lowlife-teabagger-protestor-tears-up-poster-of-rosa-parks-at-health-care-town-hall).

Thanks for embarrassing the US once again, the South. Please hurry up and fall into the sea.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on August 12, 2009, 02:52:38 PM
I would like to once again reinforce my terror that these are people who absolutely adore guns and think they can solve problems.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As Yoji on August 18, 2009, 01:33:32 PM
(http://s101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/yoji_00/th_spittake.jpg)

Nutcase at Las Vegas town hall(??) shouts "Heil Hitler" at a Jew as he confesses his love for Israel's veteran/healthcare system (http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/18/hitler-israel/)

Once again getting that feeling of waking up on a different planet. I think I have an easier time figuring out temperamental machines than these lunatics.

ZOMG UPDATE: Turns out she was wearing an Israel Defense Force t-shirt. :confused:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on August 18, 2009, 01:51:41 PM
The worst part is that I can't tell if she's a conservative or a 4channer.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: sei on August 18, 2009, 01:56:10 PM
I'm not sensing any mutual exclusivity there, sorry.

It'd be fun to see a breakdown of political affiliation by sub-board, though.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on August 18, 2009, 02:19:18 PM
Well the fundamental difference is that 4channers don't actually believe in whatever the fuck they're talking about.

...oh.  Oh I see.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: sei on August 18, 2009, 02:48:09 PM
See: "Middle America is not your personal army"
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: JDigital on August 19, 2009, 12:59:27 AM
How come we haven't seen Anonymous out protesting this? Did they stop selling the "V" masks?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on August 19, 2009, 03:31:21 AM
4chan is not a demographic whose laziness you should bother to bemoan.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on August 19, 2009, 04:45:54 AM
Shared by Yeoz from #finalfight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYlZiWK2Iy8

I don't normally say this, but I think it's appropriate in this case.
PWNED
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As Yoji on August 19, 2009, 09:37:20 AM
I saw that last night, and it made my father-in-law laugh out loud.

Barney brings up a good point, asking what planet she's from. Maybe I didn't wake up on a different planet, but just got invaded by nutbags pouring out of some Combine-esque portal from another dimension. Makes more sense to me, anyway.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on August 19, 2009, 09:49:50 AM
The "Obama is like Hitler" party line has spread like wildfire through the right wing masses, proving both that they are in fact just repeating what their peers say without thinking, and that somebody somewhere has a terrible sense of humor.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on August 19, 2009, 10:10:22 AM
proving both that they are in fact just repeating what their peers say without thinking, and that somebody somewhere has a terrible sense of humor.
It's just like 4chan, but with more rage and less sarcasm.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on August 20, 2009, 07:04:12 AM
in b4 lolcat obamahitler images
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on August 20, 2009, 09:28:41 AM
(http://hundredcoins.org/brentai/images/lolhitler.png)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on August 20, 2009, 12:07:31 PM
 ::(:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As Yoji on August 25, 2009, 12:43:33 PM
John McCain booed for saying Obama understands the Constitution (http://wonkette.com/410704/john-mccain-booed-for-saying-president-understands-constitution)

What gets me is the question that started all that.

Quote from: Wingnut
I would like to know how the president is getting by with all of this… money… it’s against the Constitution. Doesn’t he know that we still live under a Constitution?

:wat: Uh... as in taxes? Like the kind we've had since a bunch of totally-not-gay guys in wigs and tights scribbled an idea for a government on a cocktail napkin? Because we've been over that before.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on August 25, 2009, 12:56:17 PM
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_U_VdSV--0tY/SmQ4il4QiQI/AAAAAAAAAPY/poWo-LP2QFw/s400/chimp.jpg)
LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA LA LA LA LA LA BIRTH CERTIFICATE LA LA LA LA LA LA FAILURE AS A HUMAN BEING LA LA LA LA LA
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: sei on August 30, 2009, 12:56:13 PM
Maybe this just belongs in the religion thread.

Pastor Steven Anderson inciting violence against Obama (http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/cspanjunkie/why-i-hate-barack-obama-pastor-steven).

(Death threats up 400%?  Wonder how high they were to begin with.)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: SCD on August 30, 2009, 01:22:52 PM
Interesting.  I brought up my concerns with Constantine but have failed to follow-up due to other shit on my plate. 

Keep in mind that it only took one out-of-place individual with a mission to do his thing.  This sort of lunacy can and will destroy the hopes of a nation.

Also considering that Cheney is going on the offensive to the tune of Saddam or Milosovic when they went before courts, any prosecution needs to go forward independently of any political process.  It's about time those hounds of justice were sent free. 
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on August 30, 2009, 02:25:48 PM
Maybe this just belongs in the religion thread.

Pastor Steven Anderson inciting violence against Obama (http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/cspanjunkie/why-i-hate-barack-obama-pastor-steven).

(Death threats up 400%?  Wonder how high they were to begin with.)

Oh hey, he's from Tempe AZ.

:thad: [THAD SIGNAL] :thad:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on August 30, 2009, 02:44:27 PM
It sounds like both sides are playing it up.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on August 31, 2009, 07:45:19 PM
The Story of Cameron Todd Willingham (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/09/07/090907fa_fact_grann)

Not quite culture war, per se, but it relates to the underlying nature of the death penalty and the various social differences that line it.  It's a sobering read, as Willingham is found to be completely innocent of the crime, but legal traps and unethical boards end up never even hearing the evidence.  It's sickening.  If you know someone who supports the death penalty, make them read the whole article.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Disposable Ninja on September 03, 2009, 05:20:21 PM
Everybody heard about this new thing, right? Obama is going to give a speech to schoolkids across America, like just about every President has done since Bush Sr., and there's now a call from Conservatives to keep kids out of school on that day.

The sheer audaciousness and ridiculousness of the lengths these people go to contradict the current administration has struck a new low. It may not be their most terrifying moment, that still goes to the people who brought loaded assault rifles outside of the building Obama was giving a speech in. But this? This is just gross. This is their bias at its most bare.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on September 03, 2009, 05:34:05 PM
Why do they hate America so much?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on September 03, 2009, 05:48:29 PM
Because they worship a false god that tells them to, be it JeZeus, or the FrYveigh market.  And they actually realize it subconsciously but can't bear to consciously form coherent thought and that makes them more angry and easier to control.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Norondor on September 03, 2009, 07:00:17 PM
FrYveigh

this is like right on the fulcrum point between being clever and being idiotic.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on September 03, 2009, 07:15:07 PM
Obama is going to give a speech to schoolkids across America, like just about every President has done since Bush Sr., and there's now a call from Conservatives to keep kids out of school on that day.

Cherry on top: The subject of the President's speech is (not surprisingly): The importance of staying in school.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on September 03, 2009, 07:22:50 PM
Well, yes.  It's nothing more than a typical "Education is good" speech that every public speaker who goes to an elementary school gives.  But this whole thing seems to stem both from the running right-wing crazy fear that Obama is planning "indoctrination camps" to convert our youth to socialism and encourage them to brutally kill their capitalist parents, but also from the level of discourse that just thinks everything Obama does is going to be wrong.  I imagine the people who are raising hell over Obama's Schoolgate are also in line with Birthers and Deathers.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on September 03, 2009, 07:55:08 PM
FrYveigh

this is like right on the fulcrum point between being clever and being idiotic.

Which is just where I meant it to be.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As Yoji on September 04, 2009, 10:54:39 AM
Here's a link to go with DN's post (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/more-and-more-right-wingers-object-to-obamas-socialist-message-of-staying-in-school.php).

Quote from: Eric Kleefeld of TPM
It should be noted that Obama's address isn't really a new thing, though -- and furthermore, the subject matter of Obama's address is pretty tame compared to past Republican presidents. As DailyKosTV points out, George H.W. Bush gave an address on education policy -- not just education itself as a virtue -- to American classrooms in late 1991. And Media Matters notes that a lame-duck Ronald Reagan spoke via TV to schoolchildren in 1988, and promoted tax cuts during the course of the discussion.

I think I need a gun, a tin foil hat, and a hug.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on September 04, 2009, 11:24:58 AM
Quote
• Denver-area mother Shanneen Barron is keeping her kids home from school on Tuesday. "Thinking about my kids in school having to listen to that just really upsets me," said Barron. "I'm an American. They are Americans, and I don't feel that's OK. I feel very scared to be in this country with our leadership right now."

And to say anything bad about Bush, especially when it was about something that actually effected the entire world in a considerable way, was equivalent to saying "Fuck America, Heil Communist Hitler!" to them.

Fuck you cuntfaced mother fuckers! I hope you all die of super AIDS in the butt!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: sei on September 04, 2009, 12:49:33 PM
Way to elevate the discourse.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on September 04, 2009, 03:36:45 PM
To add a bit of twist to this story, the Texas GOP run board of education is looking to change the curriculum of our schools (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/could_texas_gingrich_based_curriculum_go_national.php?ref=fpblg) so that it focuses less on those Liberal people who had a hand in our society (might as well skip over the 1930s-1968, nothing interesting happened!) and play up the heroic founding fathers of our country, Ronald Reagan and Newt Gingrich.  Oh, yeah, while they'd include the bits about McCarthy and McCarthyism in the 50s, they'd make sure to change the subject from insane witchhunter to tragic figure, beset by communists.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As Yoji on September 04, 2009, 04:02:03 PM
By the Maker, it's like Conservapedia come to life. I'll be sure to mash that in the faces of whoever has the gal to whine about Obama Indoctrination.

I feel like I'm forgetting something... Oh yeah! :MENDOZAAAAA: :facepalm: :scanners: :ohshi~: :gasp: :barf: :endit: :fukit:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on September 07, 2009, 04:57:59 PM
FOX News blames major news outlets for not covering the Van Jones story enough. (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/07/major-news-outlets-largely-ignore-van-jones-controversy/)

Like any good troll, it's needling the tiny black line between hilarious and infuriating.  Mostly because they are pretty much admitting here that they are not a real news source and nobody gives a shit about their issues.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on September 14, 2009, 07:22:49 PM
Your Modern Conservative Movement (in pictures) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42406957@N04/sets/72157622225596987/show/)

There's a common thread that runs between each of these photos.  Can you guess what it is?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Doom on September 14, 2009, 07:30:55 PM
Look at all of these angry white racists.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: JDigital on September 14, 2009, 08:37:44 PM
No doubt the protest was full of ethnic minorities, but they weren't shown in this photostream due to liberal bias.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Ted Belmont on September 14, 2009, 11:34:07 PM
What does a smallpox vaccination have to do with it?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Sharkey on September 14, 2009, 11:44:33 PM
I don't know. Maybe we can just give them blankets? Somehow that seems very fair.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Transportation on September 15, 2009, 07:34:12 AM
Well, the first numbers for these protests are coming in and  the DC fire department is putting it at 60,000-70,000 (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/tea-party-protesters-march-washington/story?id=8557120). Which is rather terrifying for what started out as an astroturf campaign and conservative protests in general.

One wonders if our corporate overlords know what they're dealing with.

Were there any liberal counter-protests (man is that funny to say) planned at some point? With, like, actual socialists saying we're not going far enough? And less old white people.

I suppose Republicans could just say "both sides have their extremists" or something, but I doubt that will work very well where one side has "SAVE THE CHILDREN" vs. "GET YOUR OWN DAMN MONEY" as protest signs.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Saturn on September 16, 2009, 11:18:14 AM
 Birther lawsuit thrown out, Orly Taitz told to climb a wall of dicks  (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/16/connie-rhodes-birther-cha_n_288814.html)
 :perfect:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on September 16, 2009, 11:49:49 AM
Heh... I liked one link I saw there: Jimmy Carter says what's on everyone's mind. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/15/jimmy-carter-wilsons-outb_n_288003.html)

Also, I'd love to get the details on the last sentence of that article. :itsmagic:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on September 18, 2009, 05:15:27 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UASS1qFAIQ8
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Disposable Ninja on September 18, 2009, 07:30:24 AM
it took me a minute to process what that one woman says at 2:40.

Quote
You have to understand, before FDR -- before FDR, people saved up.

Quote
You have to understand, before FDR -- before FDR, people saved up.

Quote
You have to understand, before FDR -- before FDR, people saved up.

Quote
You have to understand, before FDR -- before FDR, people saved up.

I do not have words.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on September 18, 2009, 07:55:08 AM
Yeah! Fight the good fight! Keep Obama's testicles out of our mouths!

We'll only accept real AMERICAN testicles in our mouths!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As Yoji on September 18, 2009, 10:46:21 AM
xenophobe at 3:10 touting English-only schools that can't spell "diapers" right
/pffflol (http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/yoji_00/pffflol.jpg)

JESUS CHRIST WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Romosome on September 20, 2009, 07:03:31 PM
Fox News Producer caught on film deliberately leading and directing a mob of 9/12 protesters, which was then reported on the air on their own network as "completely grassroots" (http://gawker.com/5363771/relatively-inexperienced-fox-news-producer-in-912-video-scandal)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on September 20, 2009, 08:47:30 PM
On the Max Blumenthal thing I missed until now:

Holy shit he's Bizarro Rorschach!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: JDigital on September 20, 2009, 11:12:43 PM
During the Troubles, my friend's dad was approached by a newspaper photographer and offered £50 to start a riot.

How come you never see Democrats bussing in political staff to pose as grassroots protesters?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on September 21, 2009, 11:18:10 AM
Because the party isn't led my insidious malcontents who seek that theocracy usurp the power structure from democracy, and will go to great lengths of treachery, lying, and manipulating to do so...?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on September 21, 2009, 11:40:07 AM
You sure about that?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Norondor on September 21, 2009, 01:17:44 PM
I will fucking come unglued if you start some kind of false equivalence bullshit in here. leave that to retards like R^2, please.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Miss Cat Ears on September 21, 2009, 01:41:53 PM
do it do it do it
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on September 21, 2009, 01:56:57 PM
Shit was meant to be lost, that's why we invented scat and golden showers.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on September 21, 2009, 03:46:07 PM
See, the right has crazies like Glenn Beck, and the left has Janeane Garofalo!  They're pundits are just as crazy and harmless!  Ha ha.


See, President Bush wrecked the economy, embroiled us in 2 wars, used taxpayer dollars to secure the finances of the ultra rich and assume control of GM, and Obama gets the blame!  Both presidents have equal warts!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Norondor on September 21, 2009, 04:11:31 PM
I don't really read the news, or vote, but politicians are all the same, am i rite ???????????????????????????????????????????
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: yyler on September 21, 2009, 04:16:03 PM
sorite T___T;
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on September 21, 2009, 04:16:48 PM
President Bush used illegal methods to allow the (Conservative) Supreme Court to name him president despite Al Gore's popular victory.  President Obama is alleged to be a Kenyan-born Muslim who wants to destroy the US from within.  Fairness doctrine!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on September 21, 2009, 04:20:57 PM
Remember how we all talk and kind of only half-heartedly joke about how the GOP is doing its damndest to scare off minorities? R.I. GOP's Hispanic Assembly chairman quits party (http://politicsblog.projo.com/2009/09/chairman-of-sta.html)

Quote
CRANSTON, R.I -- Ivan G. Marte, chairman of the Rhode Island Republican Hispanic Assembly, says he has quit the GOP out of embarrassment at South Carolina Rep. Joe Wilson's outburst during President Obama's address to Congress last week.
...
"I do not want to continue being a member of a party in which the members of the party express themselves in that way," said Marte, 59, of Cranston. In a phone interview, he called Wilson's behavior "shameful" and "uncivilized."
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on September 21, 2009, 06:42:47 PM
This is a big fucking blow considering the trend for Cubanos to be staunch Republicans.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Transportation on September 22, 2009, 03:03:05 AM
Despite their religious conservativism, the cries of "Fuck Castro" are dying out with the older generations Batista supporters and the occasional actually oppressed person. And the GOP's religious crazy tends to be an exclusive protestant club anyway.

Essentially the Cold War political alignment is changing into something else (thank god) and the GOP can't cope and the Democrats are kinda blundering in to it, if the healthcare debacle is any indication. Maybe we'll lose that irrational fear of Russia while we're at it.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on September 22, 2009, 07:18:25 AM
Maybe we'll lose that irrational fear of Russia while we're at it.

That won't happen until after a far too large portion of us loose that irrational fear of other portions of our own population.  (I'm talking about teabaggersRacists, wait, what's the difference?!)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on September 22, 2009, 07:24:12 AM
I think it's the difference between Protestants and Christians.

Anyway, everything I've read about Russia in the past year has basically served to remind me that Russia is a pretty shitty place to live (unless you've got serious money (and even then a hit-or-miss affair)). So, I'm not sure we're going to lose our irrational fear of Russia any time soon.

Hm, and being less of an asinine shit, I have a feeling it'd just be replaced by an irrational fear of China. :nyoro~n:


EDIT:
 :tldr: People suck, and those who don't are even bigger cocksuckers.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on September 22, 2009, 07:26:00 AM
Oh I don't know, The Russians are no longer Godless Commies and have the added bonuses of being incredibly white and terribly racist. All qualities to endear them to the "Right" kind of people.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on September 22, 2009, 02:24:59 PM
Quote from: My Mom
A lot of the problems we're having now are my generation's fault, and now we're paying the price for it.

It makes sense, I think.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on September 22, 2009, 03:48:32 PM
I think she's implying that the previous generation has finally started caring about what lies just beyond their own noses, now that they've walked right into it.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on September 23, 2009, 06:59:22 PM
Census worker found hanged with the word 'fed' scrawled across his chest (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/23/census-worker-hanged-with_n_297114.html)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on September 23, 2009, 07:12:30 PM
Best part is the story is over a week old and took this long to hit the news.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Disposable Ninja on September 23, 2009, 09:00:39 PM
Quote
"Our job is to determine if there was foul play involved – and that's part of the investigation – and if there was foul play involved, whether that is related to his employment as a census worker," said Beyer.

It's great to see the Kentucky police are ON THE CASE!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Transportation on September 24, 2009, 05:55:40 AM
You'd think that they'd make any hypothetical terrorist message more blatant given the general subtlety of the extreme right so far.

Well I suppose we'll find out as the investigation progress/the offender strikes again/copy cats.

Quote
The official did not say what type of instrument was used to write the word.

The fact that they bothered to be ambiguous about this is interesting.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on September 26, 2009, 06:35:36 AM
Oy Gevalt! How about some other country's culture war for a change? (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/a-hostile-takeover-of-zionism/article1302318/)

This is a pretty good description of something that's been going on for a while now. All I have to say is: "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, know that the abyss gazes also into you."
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on September 26, 2009, 11:39:22 AM
Census Worker was "naked, gagged and had his hands and feet bound with duct tape" (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jbzG_BlkG2Hfc818EPRRn1bBlP6gD9AUMOOG0)

Other details about the body reveal that he was pretty much killed for being a census worker.  I wonder why that would happen...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZS9UW0okY4
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on September 26, 2009, 03:19:45 PM
Quote
investigators have not determined if it was a homicide, suicide or an accident.

:scanners:  Look! I'm Yoji!  :scanners:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: JDigital on September 27, 2009, 12:41:23 AM
I misread this as "homocide". TAKE THAT LIBERAL GAY CENSUS WORKERS
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As Yoji on September 27, 2009, 12:51:15 PM
Census Worker was "naked, gagged and had his hands and feet bound with duct tape" (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jbzG_BlkG2Hfc818EPRRn1bBlP6gD9AUMOOG0)

Other details about the body reveal that he was pretty much killed for being a census worker.  I wonder why that would happen...

(Glenn Beck Michele Bachmann being insane)

That... is a brilliant spectrum of fucked up. Forget California, let's hope that the South sinks into the ocean.

I misread this as "homocide". TAKE THAT LIBERAL GAY CENSUS WORKERS
Don't worry, some RedState commenter is probably planning on suggesting that as we speak.

Quote
investigators have not determined if it was a homicide, suicide or an accident.

:scanners:  Look! I'm Yoji!  :scanners:
I'M SORRY, I'M ONCE AGAIN LATE TO THE PARTY IN RECOGNIZING THE FOLLY OF RELYING ON REASON AND LOGIC IN THIS WORLD. THAT AND I'M A CRYBABY AND :scanners: IS JUST AN AWESOME EMOTE
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As Yoji on September 29, 2009, 10:53:55 AM
Dan Riehl, much like Freud, doesn't let details or a total lack of facts stop him from suggesting pedophilia as the cause of terrible things. (http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2009/09/was-census-worker-bill-sparkman-a-child-predator.html)

Well, it's not from RedState, but it's close enough. /scanners, etc., etc.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on October 07, 2009, 08:02:51 AM
One Nation Under God (http://www.mcnaughtonart.com/artwork/view_zoom/?artpiece_id=353), an epic painting depicting the true inspiration of the US Constitution.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: François on October 07, 2009, 08:19:30 AM
Oh my, I almost didn't notice Satan there on the right, just behind Hollywood. Man, if only I didn't like Mr Fridge so much.

Quote
Fifty Stars
Represents the fifty states of the union. Some stars shine brighter than others.

:facepalm:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on October 07, 2009, 08:51:43 AM
I saw that a few days ago and thought it was purposefully ironic.

Looking at it again... :facepalm:

The shocked immigrant, and the far too great distance between Reagan and Satan, and the lack of FDR as well as everyone of the symbols people like Glenn Beck hypnotize those fools with say that the painter is a sheep.

That and the LIBERAL MEDIA HURR DURR!!!

Where is this fucking lying liberal media so I can watch it and actually enjoy watching the news for once!?!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: JDigital on October 07, 2009, 09:24:49 AM
Liberal media is largely a myth used to undermine authoritative sources of news and facts. There is liberal media bias, but nothing on this scale.

The list of authorities considered too "liberal" to trust includes "the MSM" (almost all newspapers and news channels), the Supreme Court, college professors, Europe, "Hollywood" (almost all actors and celebrities), all Democrats, Democrat supporters, and anyone who voted for Obama (half of all US citizens). This leaves only the Republican party, the religious right and Fox News, which is why they're such proponents of this idea.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Norondor on October 07, 2009, 09:41:45 AM
Liberal media is largely a myth used to undermine authoritative sources of news and facts. There is liberal media bias, but nothing on this scale.

This mostly comes about because when the 4th estate can be bothered to fact-check, it becomes rapidly apparent that the real world in which around 50% of people live has a profound and ineradicable liberal bias.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As Yoji on October 07, 2009, 11:42:34 AM
Dreadful Kitsch, terrible and free of all shame.
:barf: Damnation by the whole pantheon, that's up there with all the awful 9/11 fanart. Possibly worse.

The Shocked Pagan Immigrant, makes us long for the days when illegal aliens were all European.
The Farmer, a truer American than those fags on the coasts.
The Demon Professor, who spends his time wanking to Darwin and spitting on the Cross, as professors are wont to do.
The Liberal Media, who has substituted their black heart with facts, figures, and truth.
The Soldiers, who shall all receive enthusiastic fellatio because their friend totally saw an IED go off.
The Constitution, literally written by God and not some totally-not-gay guys who wore wigs and tights.

:endit:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on October 07, 2009, 12:27:18 PM
They're still trying to portray Lincoln as a dutiful Christian?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on October 07, 2009, 12:29:36 PM
It's funnier when right-wing idiots invoke Ben Franklin though.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Kashan on October 07, 2009, 12:57:02 PM
They're still trying to portray Lincoln as a dutiful Christian?
Lincoln was a secret Jew is totally my favorite conspiracy theory ever.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Transportation on October 07, 2009, 02:39:12 PM
Oh my god this is amazing.

Also you've forgotten the best part:

HANDICAPPED CHILD

This is important to understand the motivations of the Pregnant Woman on the right.
---
And the paper on the steps representing SCOTUS decisions he disagrees with:

Marbury v. Madison (1803)

Ahahahaaha oh jesus christ.

It just needs an aborted fetus or confederate soldier EDIT: flag, meant flag somewhere and it'll be perfect.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on October 07, 2009, 02:41:45 PM
No browncoats, but there is a unification soldier!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Transportation on October 07, 2009, 02:47:44 PM
Half tempted to count Davy Crockett because of the "Texas Revolution" tidbit, though.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on October 07, 2009, 03:09:36 PM
The fetus should be tugging on its mother's leg and weeping.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: PhilosopherDirtbike on October 07, 2009, 03:19:19 PM
Interesting and well painted, if nothing else. I guess everybody has to have a point of view. I guess from the very angry people above that this isn't meant to be ironic then? Ah well, still a decent piece of work.

But why no flavor text for Satan? I want to see how Satan fits in to America.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on October 07, 2009, 03:33:33 PM
Slight typo, it was meant to read "Dick Cheney".


Also, people check out the real version (http://www.shortpacked.com/McNaughton%20Fine%20Art.htm).
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: PhilosopherDirtbike on October 07, 2009, 04:11:38 PM
Poor Mr Hollywood, getting the shit end of the stick in both versions... ::(:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: SCD on October 07, 2009, 06:34:45 PM
win.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As Yoji on October 08, 2009, 08:08:16 PM
/maniacal laughter and accompanying music (http://420.thrashbarg.net/mcnaughton-fine-art-one-nation-under-god-parody-jesus-cthulhu-blood-monsters.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxScTbIUvoA
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on October 08, 2009, 08:19:10 PM
Hey that's pretty much my desktop now
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on October 08, 2009, 08:22:36 PM
/maniacal laughter and accompanying music (http://k.photos.cx/4af30b04985f54dc58bd8641e547a042f1f08275-153.jpg)

The best part is that Satan is still there, unchanged, but REALLY FREAKED OUT GUYS I AM FREAKING OUT OH OH JEEZ WHAT THE FUCK.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Disposable Ninja on October 08, 2009, 08:48:24 PM
Oh, man. I think I will probably have nightmares about those faceless people on the left, there.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As Yoji on October 13, 2009, 09:21:46 AM
I'm not really good with this lawyery stuff, but I smell a disbarment (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/10/birther_orly_taitz_responds_to_judges_20k_fine_sho.php).

(Thadlation: Orly Taitz gets fined $20K for frivolous lawsuits, plans to tell judge to shove it)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on October 13, 2009, 10:03:31 AM
Seems like every damn person I know online eventually becomes a lawyer. I guess this is the expected outcome of opening the profession to ever-more marginal folks.

:rolleyes:

[insert riposte by Pacobird below]

To the first person to reply in anger: this is NOT A SERIOUS POST. THANK YOU FOR PLAYING.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on October 13, 2009, 04:51:16 PM
You know, my intentions right now are to get through college and then apply to law school.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on October 13, 2009, 04:54:54 PM
:pop:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on October 13, 2009, 07:38:39 PM
(http://www.nusacm.org/newsletter/gollum3.jpg)

W-what's Taitz, precious?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As Yoji on October 14, 2009, 12:07:47 PM
Crackpot church in North Carolina wants to burn a mighty crapload of books (http://rawstory.com/2009/10/n-c-church-to-burn-satans-books-including-works-of-mother-theresa/).

Quote from: local resident who happens to be named David Lynch
They are burning so much stuff I've dubbed them the hypocritical Christian Taliban... Just the scope of all the information they want to destroy is pretty disturbing.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: PhilosopherDirtbike on October 14, 2009, 03:02:18 PM
I knew they were Baptists before I even clicked on the link.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: sei on October 15, 2009, 02:18:21 PM
Quote from: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/10/14/BAL81A4SU0.DTL
A man stabbed and bludgeoned his sister and her husband to death in El Cerrito in 2006 because he thought the couple were too liberal, were raising their children wrong and because they hadn't invited him over for Christmas, a prosecutor told jurors Tuesday.
...
Although Wycoff was also armed with a gun, he didn't use it because he didn't want to boost the cause of gun-control supporters, the prosecutor said.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Friday on October 15, 2009, 02:25:52 PM
Well, Malificent did try to kill Aurora simply because she wasn't invited to the baby shower.

Lesson Here: Invite crazy people to your parties!

or they will kill you and all you love.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on October 15, 2009, 04:57:52 PM
Imagine how things could have turned out if Maleficent WAS invited.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Cthulhu-chan on October 16, 2009, 01:34:15 AM
Man, what could have been.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on October 19, 2009, 03:45:23 PM
Your Republican Party, ladies and gentiles. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/19/gopers-demint-like-a-jew_n_326295.html)

(THAD EDIT: Link is to a story about two South Carolina Republican Chairmen comparing Sen Demint to a covetous Jew.)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on October 19, 2009, 06:09:26 PM
What really makes it is that the analogy he used isn't a very good one.

The way earmarks and bills work isn't really much like the way pennies and dollars work.

Now I just hope that he responds to this with something like "It's not racist if it's positive! :hurr:" or "But I'm the Jew in the analogy! :hurr:"
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on October 19, 2009, 06:26:55 PM
The thing is it was two guys, and it was a written rebuttal.

My first reaction was "Oh this guy whatever just had a slip of the tongue."

Nope.  Two guys, checking each other's notes, actually consciously putting that silliness to digital ink.

What the hell were they thinking?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on October 19, 2009, 06:31:33 PM
What the hell were they thinking?

I'm guessing something along the lines of "Fucking Jews with all the worlds money, they ruined our entire economy!  Goldman-Sachs!? Come on!  Do they have to be that blatant about it?!!?"
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: sei on October 19, 2009, 11:33:28 PM
[not really related]
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Cthulhu-chan on October 20, 2009, 03:04:24 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on October 23, 2009, 04:11:46 PM
Connecticut Republicans violate Twitter TOS, commit fraud, complain about free speech violations when caught. (http://thinkprogress.org/2009/10/22/twitter-connecticut-gop/)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As Yoji on October 23, 2009, 04:42:24 PM
I'm not really an expert on this kind of thing, but doesn't anybody read the rules these days? ANY rules, for that matter?

Quote from: Wiktionary
Noun

libel (plural libels)

   1. A written (notably as handbill) or pictorial statement which unjustly seeks to damage someone's reputation.

For fuck's sake, this should be a no-brainer when your job is to engage in formal debate on a daily basis.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on October 27, 2009, 01:51:28 PM
Since the conversation got derailed by the threadsplit, this was shared by Squizzle in #finalfight:

http://gawker.com/5391200/shep-smith-apologizes-for-fox-news-lack-of-balance

Basically, Fox correspondent had the GOP candidate for the New Jersey gubernatorial race for a short interview, and afterward, Shep Smith asks when we're going to hear from the Democrat candidate, and she just :shrug: , and Smith apologizes for the lack of balance.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Transportation on October 27, 2009, 02:39:14 PM
Shepard Smith is the moral equivalent of an alzheimer's patient who, on occasion, remembers that he's human and also works at Fox News.

He also said that thinking Obama's policies would kill off Israel was dumb!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As Yoji on November 12, 2009, 12:56:43 PM
THIS is what Jesus would do... if he were a total asshole (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/11/AR2009111116943_pf.html). (Catholic Archdiocese of Washington threatens to halt social services if a proposed same-sex marriage law is passed)

After a little further reading on Wikipedia, it looks like the Salvation Army pulled a similar stunt with it's soup kitchens in New York. Again, because of them damnable gheys.

To the saintly tactic of holding a loaded gun to the head of the disenfranchised! :happy:

...

:endit:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on November 12, 2009, 01:16:14 PM
And Matthew said, "Write 'fuck you' on the other cheek, then turn it."
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As Yoji on December 01, 2009, 12:04:21 PM
Uh... did Rick Warren just declare God as exempt from logic? (http://wonkette.com/412472/perhaps-this-is-rick-warrens-revenge) (Rick Warren tweets about how everything God says is true, even when two things contradict themselves)

Oh yeah, and my brother posted this (http://www.pjtv.com/v/2716) with a mention about how Bill Whittle pwnz. I... I think I need to go for a walk or something...
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Disposable Ninja on December 01, 2009, 12:22:47 PM
Wait, what? Who are these thousands of Christians he's talking about?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on December 01, 2009, 12:27:19 PM
The babies murdered in the womb, who had not yet been turned against God by our satanic secular society.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on December 12, 2009, 11:21:47 AM
O'Reilly pissed off that a fictional character made disparaging remarks toward him. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20091211/en_ynews/ynews_en1030)

(The article is too lazy to mention, but the character is basically a one-shot straw liberal lawyer.)

Kind of makes me take a step back and think, "You know, Jack Thompson might have been right."  Because we might be able to distinguish fact from fantasy, but sometimes it seems like most of his contemporaries can't.

EDIT: SHOCKING TWIST, it turns out that the character in question is also the episode's real murderer.  So.  Yeah.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on December 12, 2009, 01:23:25 PM
Kind of makes me take a step back and think, "You know, Jack Thompson might have been right."  Because we might be able to distinguish fact from fantasy, but sometimes it seems like most of his contemporaries can't.

You know, I came to this conclusion about the GOP awhile back.  Basically, they're so hardcore set against banning books, games, movies, rap music or anything they think might encourage people to be violent because they themselves are susceptible to such trivial influences.  This is a group that's modern policy leader, Ronald Reagan, spent a vast portion of his presidency stealing "stories" to tell from movies and painting up fictional images like the welfare queen.  They also believe that 24 is a good source for considering foreign policy.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on December 12, 2009, 01:32:19 PM
It's also why they believe that a strong belief in god and hell is so important.  As they themselves are such horrible people that they assume everyone else is too, and heaven and hell are absolutely necessary for keeping everyone from killing and ass-raping each other constantly.

It's also why they think being gay is a choice, as they themselves are actually gay and choose to be straight because they think being gay will send them to hell.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on December 12, 2009, 01:36:21 PM
They are also horrible people for hating on gays if being gay isn't a choice. That seems to be a big part of the dogma.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on December 12, 2009, 02:28:24 PM
That's something I've never quite understood.  Even if sexual orientation were a choice, what the fuck difference does it make?  Religion is obviously a choice, and discrimination on that basis isn't thought of as acceptable just because it isn't genetic.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on December 12, 2009, 02:59:08 PM
Uh, discrimination based on religion certainly is considered acceptable among fundamentalists.  Encouraged, even.  We're not talking about actual freedom-loving Americans here.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Norondor on December 12, 2009, 07:34:06 PM
Or human rights-loving humans.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Disposable Ninja on December 12, 2009, 07:42:32 PM
Or, hell, just people generally capable of feeling empathy for others.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on December 12, 2009, 07:47:47 PM
Somewhere along the line we've gone from making a legitimate commentary on the unstated philosophy behind the religious justification for homophobia to simply vilifying a group we disagree with.

But whatever, those haters are goatfuckers. The can hate all they want in hell so they should stop doing it here. :disapprove:

EDIT:
Note Hardtai, I meant to express disapproval of the goatfuckers. Not the board's vilifying of those goatfuckers. I clearly think it is A-OK to slander someone for being a goatfucker. You goatfucker.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on December 12, 2009, 08:29:19 PM
Yeah I'm sorry we hijacked the conversation after you hijacked it and steered it towards gays.

Fag.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on December 12, 2009, 08:33:47 PM
Hey Brentai Brentgay Fagtai Faggay!
I only made the comment in response to catloaf. It was jaguarloaf that brought cocks into it so don't try to pin this dong on me, you wang smoking dick. :disapprove:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on December 12, 2009, 08:39:51 PM
:nyoro~n: So after trolling fstdt.net, I succumbed to curiosity and started reading the sunniforumus.

Christ. Being gay caused by black magic or jinn? :hurr: I'm happy that some semblance of normalcy was quickly restored when another member chimed in that being gay was obviously a choice, parroting almost verbatim the same "science" as gay-curing programs.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on December 12, 2009, 09:11:50 PM
O'Reilly pissed off that a fictional character made disparaging remarks toward him. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20091211/en_ynews/ynews_en1030)

Did he mention that Murphy Brown is an unfit mother?

You know, I came to this conclusion about the GOP awhile back.  Basically, they're so hardcore set against banning books, games, movies, rap music or anything they think might encourage people to be violent because they themselves are susceptible to such trivial influences.  This is a group that's modern policy leader, Ronald Reagan, spent a vast portion of his presidency stealing "stories" to tell from movies and painting up fictional images like the welfare queen.

In fairness, Reagan had a pretty good reason to worry about people imitating things they saw in movies.

It's also why they think being gay is a choice, as they themselves are actually gay and choose to be straight because they think being gay will send them to hell.

That's really the only logical reason to believe that being gay is a choice, is if you yourself are actively "choosing" your sexuality.  Because "You know, I could be gay if I wanted to" is not really a thought that's ever crossed my mind.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on December 12, 2009, 09:15:28 PM
O'Reilly pissed off that a fictional character made disparaging remarks toward him. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20091211/en_ynews/ynews_en1030)
Did he mention that Murphy Brown is an unfit mother?

:lol: :hi5:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on December 12, 2009, 09:21:23 PM
Because "You know, I could be gay if I wanted to" is not really a thought that's ever crossed my mind.

Seriously.  Considering that I'm, like, some sort of Penelope Pussycat of faggots, if I could just switch to gay like that I'd be so up to my dick in asshole that people would start to look at it and think I had a black dude's wiener surgically grafted on.  Alas, I am wired to only lust after those inscrutable, impenetrable she-bitches.  And occasionally dickgirls.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on April 12, 2010, 04:29:20 PM
Quote from: Thad's dizzy spell log
Could be tied to stress -- I feel really faint when I read an article about MS governor declaring Confederate History Month and, when called on not mentioning slavery, dismissing that as nitpicking.

So uh.  I know the whole "Rebel Pride" thing isn't exactly new, but it seems like they've ramped it up since we elected a black President.  Right?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on April 12, 2010, 04:48:07 PM
There have always been apologists and celebrants of the Slavers' Treason, but they're definitely a lot more vocal now.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on April 12, 2010, 05:05:57 PM
It's getting bad enough that keep wondering when Billy Murray's going to make a comeback.

(Billy Murray, not Bill Murray)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on April 14, 2010, 06:55:46 AM
Being illegal in Arizona is now illegal. (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/14/arizona-legislature-prepares-immigration-enforcement-governors-signature/)  Or something.  Most of the provisions of the bill actually make it seem like they're in place to punish officers who aren't reaching Arpaio levels of assholery.

Moneyshot:
Quote
Arizona's struggling economy has driven many illegal immigrants from the state. But as the economy rebounds, "so too will the illegal immigrants -- larger, stronger and more destructive than they were several years ago," said Rep. John Kavanagh, R-Fountain Hills.

OH SHIT, GIANT MEXICANS.   :HUGE:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on April 14, 2010, 07:37:24 AM
Man, it's totally Godwin of me to mention it, but most of those provisions are inexorably causing my brain to picture a street with a checkpoint on every block, nazi officer (with comically oversized hat) at the ready, demanding "PAPERS, PLEASE."
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: SCD on April 14, 2010, 07:46:05 AM
good thing they can't afford it  :whoops:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on April 14, 2010, 07:52:22 AM
Hmmmm... maybe they can pay some illegals under the table to do it?

(http://fotosa.ru/stock_photo/Reflexo/p_1757762.jpg)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Disposable Ninja on April 14, 2010, 08:04:59 AM
What's that girl doing under the watermark? I can't tell.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on April 14, 2010, 08:11:16 AM
 ::(:

That was the least-bad pic of "winking over sunglasses" I could find in a hurry. I'M NOT BUGE OKAY.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on April 14, 2010, 10:10:35 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/buge/reaction/toots_wink.jpg)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on April 14, 2010, 10:34:44 AM
A WINNAR IS YOU.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on April 16, 2010, 08:48:54 AM
I can't link it very well from here, but:

Obama: Tea Partiers Should Thank Me for Tax Breaks

Oh, hey, it's Cool Obama.  Where the hell has he been for the last two years?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: on April 16, 2010, 12:39:39 PM
He's been out on the mean streets of Chicago, cleanin up crime - the presidential way

"YOU'RE A LOOSE CANNON, OBAMA"

Paired up with a old grizzled white republican cop, named Peter Tea, they administer street justice.

"You really think we can pull this off?"
"Yes We Can"
* Explosion


BROBAMA
COMING THIS FALL TO UPN.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on April 16, 2010, 12:41:17 PM
I feel as though the role of grizzled old white cop in this scenario is already being filled by Joe Biden.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on April 16, 2010, 12:44:17 PM
Can he... can he be on the take, and then be redeemed in the double-length premiere episode?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on April 16, 2010, 12:45:07 PM
That reminds me that when O-Dawg cease to be president, he'll (hopefully) have a longer post-presidential career than just about anybody you've had in decades, if not the longest ever.  

I wonder what he'll do...







By the by, does your presidential term limit legislation prevent more than two terms lifetime or just consecutively?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on April 16, 2010, 12:47:34 PM
Lifetime.  Duh.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on April 16, 2010, 12:54:47 PM
I dunno, there are other countries where they have term limits but these only apply for consecutive terms. So you can go take a six-year break or whatever and come back later.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on April 16, 2010, 12:56:26 PM
Those countries are retarded.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on April 16, 2010, 01:28:41 PM
Heh. I happen to think term limits are dumb anyway, because they're not a check/balance on government so much as they're a check/balance on the general public being literally too retarded to make proper choices.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Kashan on April 16, 2010, 02:27:26 PM
After he's done being president of the united states he'll just become the lifetime president of the Neo-UN one world government, which he'll help create and then surrender American sovereignty to during his second term.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Detonator on April 16, 2010, 03:04:48 PM
Heh. I happen to think term limits are dumb anyway, because they're not a check/balance on government so much as they're a check/balance on the general public being literally too retarded to make proper choices.

Perhaps you've forgotten the subject matter of this thread?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on April 18, 2010, 09:39:11 AM
I remember a joke -- maybe in one of our old threads -- to the effect of, "God, if they repealed term limits, Bush could run for a third term." -- "Yeah, but he'd be running against Clinton."

Would have had to have been pre-Katrina, of course -- Bush would never have gotten a third term, limits or no.  But Reagan sure as hell could have.

(The counterargument, of course, is that FDR, back when term limits were a tradition and not a law, got elected to 4 terms, and we could have been well and truly fucked if that hadn't happened.)

I've said before that I think we need term limits on congress.  Though limits on non-consecutive terms actually sounds like a decent enough idea to me.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on May 14, 2010, 09:48:40 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/05/06/american-flag-banned-america/ -- I think this poll speaks for itself.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Esperath on May 14, 2010, 10:28:45 AM
Yeah, that poll was 4chan bombed.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on May 18, 2010, 03:13:56 PM
The first Muslim girl won the Miss USA Pageant this year.

And the right-wingers are pissed. (http://thinkprogress.org/2010/05/17/right-rage-muslim-usa/)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on May 18, 2010, 03:57:41 PM
Something that I believe completely refutes any alleged ties to terrorists:  She won a poll-dancing competition (and thus won a stripper poll for her own home) and was not killed by them.

Also, OH BOO FUCKING HOO!  A Muslim girl won an utterly sexist and demeaning competition instead of some idiotic neo-southern belle!  Who gives a damn besides racist chauvanists who need to be reassured that their race has the purdiest wimin... Oh right, Conservatives... Never mind.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: sei on May 20, 2010, 09:45:13 AM
I'm sure the muslim conservatives are thrilled over the immodest display, too.  Looks like fundies of opposing stripes have something to unite over.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: SCD on May 20, 2010, 11:36:19 AM
Hey, I just want to wish everyone a happy "Draw Mohammed" day

Have some drawings of solidarity! (http://blazingcatfur.blogspot.com/2010/05/annouincing-blazingcatfurs-everybody.html)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on May 20, 2010, 03:47:00 PM
Nothing like showing your hatred of censorship with some prideful support of racism.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: SCD on May 20, 2010, 04:41:17 PM
Culturalism.  There is no genetic link between people's traits and origin. 

Specifically, I am culturalist against the wahabbi sect of islam, and those who purvey those teachings from the madrassas, the same sect which is funded by the Sauds, and the same sect which has lead to the attacks on the original authors of the cartoons, as well as the late Mr Gogh.

In more detail, this is culturalist against the same group who would take so much offense that they would shut block facebook and youtube in Pakistan from sheer rage, case spinless organizations such as Viacom to shudder to the point of censoring an entire speech about not cowering in in the name of percieved threats, and culturalist against the mentality which led a pack of somalis to chase down people of the pro-israel lobby the other month across a bridge in my fair city.  With machetes. 

Let me be clear, as much as you fear the Christian right, I, and possibly some people you know, have had people who have been killed by someone who follows a puritan sect such as the Wahabbi.   

This is not against anyone more moderate, who would have the galls to shake their head and move on, just like you would at an inebriated individual shouting to you and the world about nonsense, but those who would use fear and violence to ensure things are not said or depicted. 

As someone important would say, "I do not agree with your drawing, but I will give my life to defend your right to draw it".

Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on May 20, 2010, 06:30:47 PM
No, I mean the cartoons that originally kicked off the violent, abhorrent protests were pretty fucking racist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten_Muhammad_cartoons_controversy), and their only intent was to invoke outrage and create offense.  But the main narrative of this whole event has focused on how the death threats on the creator while failing to address the fact that his goal was to incite Muslims.

As a result, I consider the event to be petty and mean spirited, with the idea being to belittle a cultural to provoke a incensed reaction from a religious community.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on May 20, 2010, 09:12:23 PM
August (http://www.someguywithawebsite.com/cartoons/2010/100426_censor.html) covered it a few weeks back, nicely, I think -- it's a bunch of self-congratulatory bloggers tripping to pat themselves on the back while it's somebody else (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/comic-riffs/2010/05/swedish_muhammad_artists_home.html) whose life they're putting on the line.

You won't find a hell of a lot of guys who're bigger free speech advocates than I am, but just because people have the RIGHT to post a few thousand drawings of Mohammed on the same day doesn't mean they're showing courage by doing it.  They are, at best, not considering the consequences their actions may have on other people; at worst, they have considered them and just don't give a fuck.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Transportation on May 20, 2010, 10:37:18 PM
Er, I get the smug bit, but arguing that people shouldn't do it because it makes people violently angry is silly. By that definition any form of protest or any iconoclastic behavior is wrong. Bill Maher is clearly a national threat. If anything, it encourages Christian extremists or whoever to use violence to stop things they don't like.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: patito on May 21, 2010, 02:42:13 AM
As someone important would say, "I do not agree with your drawing, but I will give my life to defend your right to draw it".

I know I disagree on a lot of things you say man, but that is just INSANE. I really don't want you dead.

So as of this day I am giving up my right to draw or create any depictions of Mohammed. Yes, yes, slippery slope and whatever but if giving up on my right to do something so utterly meaningless to me means that you get to keep your life, then I will compromise to never draw such a thing. You know why I'm compromising, because I'm not some sort of asshole.

Er, I get the smug bit, but arguing that people shouldn't do it because it makes people violently angry is silly. By that definition any form of protest or any iconoclastic behavior is wrong. Bill Maher is clearly a national threat. If anything, it encourages Christian extremists or whoever to use violence to stop things they don't like.

Also, we are talking about drawings of Mohammed, not abortion or some other thing that actually matters. I want you to give me a reason why you specifically would ever need to draw a picture of Mohammed. I certainly don't have one, because I don't give a shit about Mohammed. I'm willing to bet that you don't care about it either, but I'm asking you to give me one just be courteous.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on May 21, 2010, 04:22:11 AM
It's terrible because, unfortunately, it's going to take people getting killed for everyone to realize that this was a terrible idea.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on May 21, 2010, 04:58:06 AM
Since when has getting a bunch of people they don't know killed ever convinced someone that something was a terrible idea?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on May 21, 2010, 08:31:18 AM
When it affected them monetarily.

Hellooooo lawsuits!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Pacobird on May 21, 2010, 08:37:31 AM
first they came for the shitty no-talent hack political cartoonists and i said nothing
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on May 21, 2010, 06:20:45 PM
Er, I get the smug bit, but arguing that people shouldn't do it because it makes people violently angry is silly.

Not what I said.

The issue is that it's not their OWN asses they're putting on the line.  The people who are actually drawing the pictures aren't putting themselves in harm's way, they are exclusively putting OTHER people in harm's way.

I respect people who are willing to put their lives on the line to defend their rights.

I do not respect people who are willing to put OTHER people's lives on the line to defend their rights, while they themselves kick back with a beer.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mothra on May 21, 2010, 06:59:02 PM
That's a pretty good point.

I mean illustrators do face some danger in these situations but it's kind of terrifying how much distant chaos they can call into being just by criticizing something this volatile. I assume for their own indirect gain, to assuage this foreign guilt about people we perceive as repressed needing us to save them.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on May 22, 2010, 01:43:51 PM
Welp, the fascist theocrats have passed their awful oppiniofact ridden school curriculum and doomed a generation into attempted indoctrination into their hate-spewing super-capitalism way of life.

 :hellamad:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on May 22, 2010, 01:50:46 PM
What's really great is those same people accused Obama's address to students, the same one that their prized Ronald Reagan started mind you, as indoctrination.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on June 27, 2010, 02:07:15 PM
Texas GOP still crazy (http://washingtonindependent.com/88487/texas-gop-unveils-brand-new-far-right-platform)

They want to keep the supreme court from ruling on cases concerning the bill of rights.  Not to mention the ridiculous, but expected topic of religious freedom and slightly unexpected one of abortion--I thought they wanted to overturn Roe v. Wade.... or do they want to say that it's null and void due to being outside their jurisdiction despite that being the opposite of reality.

Also, they hate blowjobs, foreigners, and the UN.  But that's just the standard for them now.

But hey, at least they support Israel.... albeit for horrible reasons.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on June 27, 2010, 02:19:40 PM
Functional if not explicit policies of ethnic cleansing and racial/religious superiority, maintaining and denying illegal weapons stockpiles, and a history of pissing in everybody's faces while constantly proclaiming victimhood status?  I can't imagine how the Texas GOP could possibly identify with Israel.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on June 27, 2010, 10:09:37 PM
They want to keep the supreme court from ruling on cases concerning the bill of rights.

Yeah, you know, there are conservatives who I disagree with who are intelligent, well-read people who simply have a different value system than I do.

And then there are conservatives who don't have a fourth-grade understanding of civics.  And who manage to get elected to office because their constituents don't have a THIRD-grade understanding of civics.

I am legitimately, deeply opposed to requiring anyone to pass a test in order to vote or run for public office, but shit like this gives me pause.  If someone asks you what the Supreme Court does, and you can't answer "Interpret the Constitution", you shouldn't be doing either.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on August 05, 2010, 10:53:39 AM
A series of four tweets I put out after hearing Andrew Wilkow, conservative talk show host.

Normally, I don't agree with them, but the guy does raise a valid point.
http://twitter.com/dohlbomber/status/20408365992 (http://twitter.com/dohlbomber/status/20408365992)
http://twitter.com/dohlbomber/status/20408406141 (http://twitter.com/dohlbomber/status/20408406141)
http://twitter.com/dohlbomber/status/20408529819 (http://twitter.com/dohlbomber/status/20408529819)
http://twitter.com/dohlbomber/status/20408636657 (http://twitter.com/dohlbomber/status/20408636657)

He even stated, "I hate it when the Republicans do this too."  and cited stuff like No Child Left Behind.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on August 05, 2010, 05:45:45 PM
If you have to use four tweets to finish a thought then you're not using Twitter right.

(Granted, using Twitter right basically equates to "like a douche" by design.)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on August 05, 2010, 06:03:26 PM
Yeah, fuck that noise.  I'll be a douche by flooding rathr than b a dushe by trnctng #twitterblows
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: sei on August 06, 2010, 11:04:25 AM
speaking of culture wars and social media

Conservatives organize to bury stuff from liberals on Digg (http://blogs.alternet.org/oleoleolson/2010/08/05/massive-censorship-of-digg-uncovered/)

Favorite quote, "No up-votes (no matter how much you agree)."
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on August 06, 2010, 09:40:08 PM
If you have to use four tweets to finish a thought then you're not using Twitter right.

Also, if you have to link to them individually instead of just copypasting.

Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: JDigital on August 07, 2010, 02:32:26 PM
I'm still not sure what liberal and conservative mean. Is it just red versus blue?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on August 07, 2010, 04:19:44 PM
I'm still not sure what liberal and conservative mean. Is it just red versus blue?

Basically yeah. The best part is that the factions invert randomly as you go from country to country.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on August 07, 2010, 05:34:21 PM
I'm still not sure what liberal and conservative mean. Is it just red versus blue?

Basically yeah. The best part is that the factions invert randomly as you go from country to country.

either way, entire party is babies
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on August 07, 2010, 06:59:09 PM
Conservative generally means old guard... liberal generally means new guard...
And whenever there is something they both think is bad, its the policies of the other that are at fault.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Disposable Ninja on August 07, 2010, 07:15:10 PM
Yeah, but it usually actually is the fault of those damn Conservatives.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on August 07, 2010, 10:06:46 PM
The words have been corrupted in an awfully Orwellian fashion, too.  When Dole was being lambasted by his own party, Goldwater commiserated about how ridiculous it was that the two of them had come to be seen as examples of liberals within the Republican Party.

Mongrel's got the gist of the definitions, old versus new, but in practice, at least in America, the terms are practically meaningless.  There was really nothing conservative about Bush, and there's not a whole lot liberal about Obama.

"Fiscal conservatism" theoretically means laissez-faire capitalism, an unregulated free market where businesses succeed or fail without governmental intervention.  In practice, American Republicans support a system that grants corporations special rights above and beyond those of individual citizens, and support massive corporate welfare when they have power while loudly decrying it when they aren't.  Oh, and also, declaring very expensive wars with nations that are no threat to you is considered "conservative" according to the modern American definition, even though that's pretty much the farthest thing from the dictionary definition.

Meanwhile, "liberal" is effectively a dirty word that American Democrats scurry away from; they will bend over backwards to prove how not-liberal they are, because they still have not figured out that they could all line up to suck off Reagan's corpse and Republicans would still call them Leninists.  Take the healthcare bill -- it's incredibly corporate-friendly, and not government-run in the slightest, and in fact is far from what UK Conservatives would ever consider, but American "conservatives" have called it socialist and suggested it is a total governmental takeover of healthcare.

"Socially conservative," incidentally, is a euphemism for racism, sexism, and general WASPs-are-better-ism.

And, as in the fiscal arena, American Democrats flinch at the slightest hint that someone might describe them as "liberal" and back only slight reforms.  Pop on over to the Prop 8 thread for some good examples -- take Obama's ridiculous stance that gay people should have all the same rights as heterosexuals but oh yeah for some reason I oppose gay marriage, because that's politically expedient.

Basically, it's all a crock of shit and the words have lost all meaning.

I'm an unabashed liberal but acknowledge that conservatism has its place -- sadly, neither is really in evidence in our government.  What we've got is more like a corporatist system: the government is run by people who have enough money to influence politicians, and everything else is window dressing.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Friday on August 07, 2010, 10:19:00 PM
Quote
the government is run by people who have enough money to influence politicians, and everything else is window dressing.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on August 08, 2010, 08:54:24 PM
I think "plutocracy (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/plutocracy?r=75&src=ref&ch=dic)" is the government sponsored (i.e. $10) term that applies here.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Joxam on August 09, 2010, 02:13:58 PM
Its sad when the government described by Burroughs in "No More Stalins, No More Hitlers" seems like an upgrade.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on August 12, 2010, 05:31:51 PM
"I said, on HBO, listening to black comics, you hear "nigger, nigger, nigger." I didn't call anybody a nigger. Nice try, Jade." (http://mediamatters.org/blog/201008120045)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on August 12, 2010, 07:44:49 PM
Man utilizes state-funded highway and GPS systems to encourage people to read libertarian religious texts (http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/08/worlds-biggest-writing/)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: François on August 12, 2010, 08:24:44 PM
If I was nuttier I'd troll him by writing DON'T in Canada.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Cthulhu-chan on August 12, 2010, 08:41:56 PM
DOOOO EEEEET
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Friday on August 12, 2010, 10:46:48 PM
ok, so now i want to write

Kaneda


Tetsuo


Norfair
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on August 17, 2010, 04:15:27 PM
So, okay.  For those of you who don't read the Internet, there's this debate about whether a Muslim community center should be built two blocks away from Ground Zero.  Apparently 70% of the country believes it shouldn't be there, which, given that that's the same statistic as Arizona's support for SB-1070, leads me to believe that 70% of the US is made up of frightened xenophobes.

My favorite scene in Stranger in a Strange Land is when they're at the zoo and they see a big monkey beat up a smaller monkey and take his food, and the smaller monkey proceed to turn around and find an even smaller monkey to beat up.

To wit: Harry Reid, a Mormon, decides religious persecution isn't so bad (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2010/08/harry-reid-weighs-in-on-ny-mos.html?hpid=topnews) as long as he's the one doing it.

Fuck Harry Reid.  I think at this point I honestly want him to lose to the lady who wants to eliminate income tax and the Department of Education and protect our precious bodily fluids (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/06/flashback-goper-angle-spoke-out-against-fluoride-in-water-supply.php).
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: SCD on August 17, 2010, 04:48:42 PM
Despite my opinions on the wogs on the far side of the pond, out here the winning combination have been Rule of Law and Equity of the Law for all parties concerned.  I would assume that these matters are held at the local level and despite all the media zoo, that's where the answer will be decided, as per local ordinances. 

If you're interested in reading a Canadian Conservative view on it (keep in mind that our conservatives practice pretty close to your democrats in the modern scale), Rex Murphy of Newfoundland (http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/Testing+America+Tolerance/3397892/story.html) doesn't talk so much about if it should be allowed or erected, but instead if approved the why not it should be approved and that what it should be.  You may not agree with it completely and if you don't, it will be likely for the opening parts and not so much the closing, but it has been better thought-out than most of the sound-byte friendly speeches and pandering on the subject I've heard to date. 
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on August 17, 2010, 04:55:28 PM
Despite my opinions on the wogs on the far side of the pond, out here the winning combination have been Rule of Law and Equity of the Law for all parties concerned.  I would assume that these matters are held at the local level and despite all the media zoo, that's where the answer will be decided, as per local ordinances.

Oh, it's already been decided, almost unanimously; of COURSE it's legal.  It's not about policy, any more than this "Let's repeal the Fourteenth Amendment!" bullshit is.  It's about whipping up some good old-fashioned xenophobia in an election year.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on August 17, 2010, 05:43:23 PM
Why, if they build that mosque we'll just have to invade Iran.  They provoked us.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on August 17, 2010, 06:09:45 PM
the wogs on the far side of the pond

Wow.  Okay.  Maybe try again without the casual ethnic slur?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on August 17, 2010, 06:29:03 PM
Apparently 70% of the country believes it shouldn't be there, which, given that that's the same statistic as Arizona's support for SB-1070, leads me to believe that 70% of the US is made up of frightened xenophobes.

Apparently I'm a frightened xenophobe?

I mean of course there's nothing DA GUBMINT can or should do about it, but it was a bad idea to even consider putting it there.  There's only two possibilities here: the people who decided they needed a mosque there were too fucking dense to foresee this kind of reaction, or they knew full well that it would appear to be full-on, pants-down dickwaving to all the people who hold a grudge against the Muslims for that thing and responded with something between apathy and glee, which is fine I guess but not really helping in the "getting people to stop holding a grudge against the Muslims for that thing" department.  Hanlon's razor pops up again as always, but that still means it's a terrible idea that never should have gotten past the proposal and subsequent shooing out of the room phase.

If any moves had been made to block it legally then yeah, red card.  But pointing out that uhh, maybe you might want to rethink your brilliant zoning plan if for no other reason than there's a good chance of it being firebombed by hicks now, is really only persecution as far as the distance between the proposed site and the next closest of the 100+ other mosques in the city.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Detonator on August 17, 2010, 06:40:43 PM
Apparently 70% of the country believes it shouldn't be there, which, given that that's the same statistic as Arizona's support for SB-1070, leads me to believe that 70% of the US is made up of frightened xenophobes.

Apparently I'm a frightened xenophobe?

I mean of course there's nothing DA GUBMINT can or should do about it, but it was a bad idea to even consider putting it there.  There's only two possibilities here: the people who decided they needed a mosque there were too fucking dense to foresee this kind of reaction, or they knew full well that it would appear to be full-on, pants-down dickwaving to all the people who hold a grudge against the Muslims for that thing and responded with something between apathy and glee, which is fine I guess but not really helping in the "getting people to stop holding a grudge against the Muslims for that thing" department.  Hanlon's razor pops up again as always, but that still means it's a terrible idea that never should have gotten past the proposal and subsequent shooing out of the room phase.

If any moves had been made to block it legally then yeah, red card.  But pointing out that uhh, maybe you might want to rethink your brilliant zoning plan if for no other reason than there's a good chance of it being firebombed by hicks now, is really only persecution as far as the distance between the proposed site and the next closest of the 100+ other mosques in the city.

This sort of well-meaning argument could also be used to defend pretty much any society-imposed segregation.  I know this is a pretty extreme example, but in reality the whole situation is overblown and once the election's over everyone will forget about it.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on August 17, 2010, 06:44:37 PM
Jeez, I really do hate election season now.  It's like the absolute worst of either side's fringe comes to light for a good 4-6 months prior to November.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on August 17, 2010, 06:45:34 PM
There's only two possibilities here: the people who decided they needed a mosque there were too fucking dense to foresee this kind of reaction, or they knew full well that it would appear to be full-on, pants-down dickwaving to all the people who hold a grudge against the Muslims for that thing and responded with something between apathy and glee

Bit of a false dichotomy there. Never underestimate the stupidity of well-meaning idiots trying to "promote understanding".

That said, I think it does belong. The point needs to be relentlessly hammered home that extremism is separate from religion. And if that means courting firebombs and making a pile of retards angry, so be it. Good on O-dawg for his unequivocal endorsement.

If people want to argue that 'not raising a fuss' would have been a better idea, well, the entire history of the US during the 60's (and quite a few other decades) has a bone to pick with them.

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Yay Det.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on August 17, 2010, 07:13:48 PM
Wait, it's a mosque now? I thought it was a community center with a smaller portion dedicated to religious services?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: SCD on August 17, 2010, 07:47:47 PM
Pretty much modeled after a Jewish YMCA-style facility in the same town.

Bonus round:  Best Tweet Ever (http://twitter.com/jasonmustian/status/21337496786)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on August 17, 2010, 08:59:19 PM
Quote from: http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2010/08/obamas-support-of-moque-near-ground-zero-draws-strong-reactions/1
"I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there (near Ground Zero)," Obama said.

Two things:
1) A community center with a prayer room is, technically, a "mosque", but the word has connotations of an actual temple if you're not actually Muslim.  So Obama's either being really technical, he's misinformed, or we're misinformed.
2) He's probably right that the actual intelligence of the decision is nobody's business.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on August 18, 2010, 02:48:02 AM
If that backpedaling is true, it makes me SADFACE, because the context of the original speech makes a specific comparison to churches and synagogues.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on August 18, 2010, 05:23:18 AM
Dr. Laura to end her hateful, hateful radio show (http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/17/dr-laura-schlessinger-to-end-radio-show/?hp)

This comes on the heels of her gaining notoriety for using "nigger" eleven times in one broadcast, and telling black people they should just "get a sense of humor."  Her words as she leaves are tellingly passive-aggressive, as she talks about wanting her "first amendment rights" and how she is just trying to help people, and is sick off all these groups getting angry over her well-meaning advice!

For those not in the know, Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a conservative advice radio call-in host.  She also tends to give women whose husbands have cheated on her the advice that they just aren't pretty enough.  So, good riddance to an old, useless relic.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on August 18, 2010, 10:47:13 AM
She's not GONE FOREVER.

Watch out for the Dr. Laura Podcast, or the Dr. Laura Youtube channel!


Oh, and listen to the audio (http://mediamatters.org/blog/201008120045) and read the transcript of what instigated this whole thing.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: clutch on August 18, 2010, 03:28:16 PM
Re: the TERROR MOSQUE. It’s kind of silly, no? To my mind, it’s a bit like saying white people shouldn't be allowed in the south anymore because they've done some really rotten shit there. But then I remember Bowling For Columbine, a film that dealt with the aftermath and political ramifications of a similar (though smaller in scale) tragedy.

In the documentary, Michael Moore made great ballyhoo about the National Rifle Association holding a fundraiser nearby in the weeks after the Columbine shooting, shouting about insensitivity. How then do those same people rationalize the building of the mosque? Granted it’s been much longer since the attacks, but the loss of life was several orders of magnitude greater than at Columbine, and the effect on our culture even greater still (not to mention that the fundraiser was 20 miles away, rather than within walking distance). I personally think 9 years should be enough time to cope, but to be fair I don't know anyone that died that day.

Forgive me on this one, but I can see both sides. The people behind the mosque project most likely have never, nor will they ever, kill anyone, and it is both morally wrong and unconstitutional to try and prevent their expressions of peaceful worship. Then again it must also be said that the choice of location was at a minimum insensitive, if not intentionally provocative, and that the defense of such a choice could be seen as hypocritical.

But that’s totally okay! Muslims, build your mosque; Alaskans with no connection to New York whatsoever, be angry about it. YOU HAVE THAT RIGHT, AND NO ONE CAN SHOULD TAKE IT FROM YOU.


Note to future generations: When you all wise up and decide to knock it off with worship in toto, I'll be happy to offer some suggestions of how to better spend your money and effort.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on August 18, 2010, 03:50:06 PM
Hey, maybe the Republicans are just jealous of all the mileage Guliani squeezed from the tragedy the first time around. Now that somebody found a little more gas in the tank, no east-coast milquetoast is gonna shunt them out of the driver's seat, no sirree!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on August 18, 2010, 04:35:15 PM
When this debacle began I was really hoping that this would be an open-membership community center designed to give some positive press to the New York Muslim community. It would make the debacle more perfectly ironic.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on August 18, 2010, 09:54:18 PM
But pointing out that uhh, maybe you might want to rethink your brilliant zoning plan if for no other reason than there's a good chance of it being firebombed by hicks now, is really only persecution as far as the distance between the proposed site and the next closest of the 100+ other mosques in the city.

City, state, country...Daily Show did a lovely montage this week about how every new mosque opening, or existing mosque expanding, has drawn some kind of rage-filled protest, regardless of proximity to Ground Zero.

Cowing to xenophobes who want to firebomb you is an understandable reaction, but it's not going to win you any struggles for civil rights.

A community center with a prayer room is, technically, a "mosque", but the word has connotations of an actual temple if you're not actually Muslim.  So Obama's either being really technical, he's misinformed, or we're misinformed.

Or it's a slip of the tongue because so many people keep calling it a mosque that it's easy to repeat that phrasing without thinking about it.  (I use derisive air quotes when I say "Ground Zero Mosque".)  OR he's simply caving to the right-wing noise machine again.

In the documentary, Michael Moore made great ballyhoo about the National Rifle Association holding a fundraiser nearby in the weeks after the Columbine shooting, shouting about insensitivity. How then do those same people rationalize the building of the mosque? Granted it’s been much longer since the attacks, but the loss of life was several orders of magnitude greater than at Columbine, and the effect on our culture even greater still (not to mention that the fundraiser was 20 miles away, rather than within walking distance). I personally think 9 years should be enough time to cope, but to be fair I don't know anyone that died that day.

I guess I can see the parallels -- First and Second Amendment, not all Muslims are terrorists versus not all gun owners shoot up schools -- but it strikes me as a pretty imperfect analogy, largely due to the huge difference in time scales you mention.  There's also the matter of buying real estate in Manhattan that people seem to be ignoring -- "Just go buy a community center-sized chunk of building somewhere else in midtown" is not really a very helpful piece of advice.

Tone's rather an important issue too.  If the people building the community center spouted slogans like "From my cold, dead hands," that wouldn't exactly strike a conciliatory tone.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on August 18, 2010, 10:53:42 PM
I've been trying to ignore the whole Muslim community center in walking distance from ground zero bit.  But no one wants to shut up about it.  Note that it conveniently popped up right as the republicans' hypocrisy with the deficit/Bush tax cuts was under the spotlight.  I gotta admit Fox propaganda network is good at what it does. 

...Fucking election years.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on August 18, 2010, 11:10:32 PM
Every once in a while they have to admit that their audience isn't too bright, though. (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/19/nearly-americans-thinks-obama-muslim-survey-shows/)

(It's a link to Fox News saying that 1 in 5 Americans think Obama's a Muslim.)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on August 19, 2010, 05:02:30 PM
AP, but yeah.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: SCD on August 19, 2010, 07:27:55 PM
A ladyfriend passed this my way.  This rebuttal on the reactions to the Ground-Zero mosque is very well-spoken. 

I recommend everyone watch it. 

Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is No 'Ground Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpT2Muxoo0&feature=player_embedded#)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on August 19, 2010, 08:17:12 PM
While this has been a fairly heated debate raging around the country, fact is, the Cordoba House doesn't even seem to have much of a chance of being built (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/41238.html).  They have no engineer or architect, both of which will now be too difficult to get due to the exposure and controversy, and so far they've only raised $18,000 of the $100 million they need to actually build the thing.  They don't even fully own the property.  This entire thing has been an exercise in shrill, bigoted conservatives generating a furor over absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on August 19, 2010, 08:38:01 PM
and how much of the efforts to complete this project has been hampered by said bigoted conservatives, making people not want to have their names attached to it?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on August 19, 2010, 08:41:02 PM
I dunno, but it makes me want to go down to the restaurant/grocery attached to the local mosque and buy some falafels.

Because frankly, people who worship at mosques could use a show of support about now.

Also, they have good falafels.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Burrito Al Pastor on August 19, 2010, 10:02:19 PM
THAT'S DISCRIMINATION
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on August 19, 2010, 10:56:25 PM
Face it burrito, it's one more awesome food that whitey just CAN'T DO RIGHT.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Cthulhu-chan on August 20, 2010, 05:50:02 AM
It's true, you need some mexicans to make them.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on August 20, 2010, 04:19:39 PM
Face it burrito, it's one more awesome food that whitey just CAN'T DO RIGHT.

Burrito just doesn't like the competition.

Though really the falafel wraps I get are more like tacos than burritos.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on August 20, 2010, 06:14:08 PM
The guy I get my falafels from could be Moslem, Jewish or Coptic Christian for all I know. It doesn't concern me much, because he's a genial fellow and his food is good.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on August 20, 2010, 08:14:22 PM
Quote from: Sadly, No!
Another Triumphalist Ground Zero Shrine Exposed!!!

The victims of one of history’s most brutal acts of war are surely rolling in their graves! We have discovered evidence that a triumphalist monument has been built by the perpetrators of the atrocity not three blocks, not two blocks, but a mere block-and-a-half from Ground Zero:
(http://www.sadlyno.com/wordpress/uploads/2010/08/groundzeromap2.jpeg)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on August 25, 2010, 04:59:46 AM
Oh for the lova (http://gawker.com/5619136/)

A bunch of protesters at ground zero harassed a black guy passing through.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: SCD on August 25, 2010, 05:09:39 AM
Even though the assault on an individual should not be condoned, I'll take that over torching of police cars anyday. 
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on August 25, 2010, 06:02:48 AM
What.

Also, re: "not-mosque". At this point I just want it built because it'll piss off all the right people.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on August 25, 2010, 06:23:36 PM
That's great if that's literally all you want.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on August 26, 2010, 03:32:50 AM
I wish I could be so glib and really mean it. ::(:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Disposable Ninja on August 28, 2010, 11:14:02 AM
There's been a lot of retrospective stuff in the news recently regarding New Orleans' recovery, and it got me to wondering:

(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa34/disponi/protestable_stuff.jpg)

Oh my God. The New Orleans Republican Headquarters is within 10 miles of the Louisiana Superdome. That's just terrible. After all the horrible things the Republicans did to the people of New Orleans those faithful three weeks five years ago, and we go and allow them to put their headquarters wherever they want? That's insulting. I'm all for freedom of speech, but the superdome is a sacred place, full of saints. I mean, who knows what kind of ties these Louisianan Republicans have? Could they be in bed with George Bush? Or maybe even Dick Cheney?

I say we organize a protest.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on August 28, 2010, 11:32:00 AM
Cute, but if you wanted to play that game I'd have gone with Glenn Beck organizing one of his astroturf orgies at the location of King's speech, on the anniversary of King's speech.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Disposable Ninja on August 28, 2010, 11:41:15 AM
Except Glenn Bleck's thing is entirely worth protesting for perfectly legitimate and entirely non-ironic reasons.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on August 28, 2010, 11:53:32 AM
Also, Metairie is only kinda halfway part of New Orleans.

If I recall, it's mostly a lower-class white-trash suburb, pretending to be a middle-class white-trash suburb (How appropriate that the GOP headquaters is there). Guys in trailers pretending they own homes and the like. 'Course the last (and only) time I was in Nawlins was three months before Katrina, so maybe it's more gentrified now? 
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on August 31, 2010, 05:00:13 AM
I don't think I'll ever get tired of listening to crazy right-wingers speak for themselves:
Glenn Beck's "Restoring Honor" Rally - Interviews With Participants (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht8PmEjxUfg#ws)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Smiler on August 31, 2010, 06:49:19 AM
Half of the TAKING AMERICA BACK stuff these people say reminds me of Metal Wolf Chaos. FREEDOM IS DEAD IN AMERICAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on October 01, 2010, 07:30:19 AM
Our culture has Alzheimer's. (http://www.viewmag.com/13264-A+Society+Of+Forgetting.htm)

NOTE TO THAD: this link will self-destruct on October 6th.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 07, 2010, 09:07:12 PM
In news that will surprise people who believe in the Tooth Fairy, Lou Dobbs employs illegal immigrants (http://www.thenation.com/article/155209/lou-dobbs-american-hypocrite).
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on October 12, 2010, 02:03:16 PM
So, you're a Birther, but you're having trouble getting past that whole "actual birth certificate and multiple birth announcements" thing.  Well, I have news for you!  In 1961, Stanley Ann Dunham did indeed birth the son of Barack Obama Sr. in a Hawaiian hospital, and name him Barack Hussein Obama.  What you don't know, though, is that the "Barack Obama" currently in the White House is not that boy!  He is the devil spawn of Malcolm X, granted the stolen identity of an American child in order to seize the presidency and bring about the Negrocalypse foretold in the Dead Tooth Scrolls. (http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2010/10/forget_the_birthers_here_come.php)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on October 12, 2010, 02:13:42 PM
I especially enjoyed the fact that he would still be a US citizen if Malcom X was his father.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Ted Belmont on October 15, 2010, 07:18:50 AM
Dylan Ratigan rants about America's War on Islam (http://gawker.com/5664744/the-single-truest-political-rant-ever-to-appear-on-morning-television)

It's long-ish, but definitely worth watching, if only to see the wonderfully uncomfortable expressions on the rest of the morning show talking head types.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on October 25, 2010, 05:24:07 PM
Soooo, the KKK are actually mounting public cross-burnings again, for the first time in 50 years. (http://chronicle.augusta.com/latest-news/2010-10-23/kkk-holding-public-cross-ceremony-warrenville-tonight?v=1287850921)

Only they're trying to claim they're not promoting hatred.

They're 'not promoting hatred.'

The KKK.

With a straight face.


I...

*girlish giggle*
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on October 25, 2010, 08:35:04 PM
Rand Paul supporters hold down woman, stomp on her head and neck before debate between Paul and Jack Conway. (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/10/male-rand-paul-supporter-stomps-head-of-female-moveon-member-outside-debate.php)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 25, 2010, 08:40:43 PM
Obviously they were all liberal plants to trick people into thinking that Tea Partiers are violent.


Joking aside: looks like there was some violence on both sides.  Stepping on somebody's foot when it's in a surgical boot?  Even in a crowd that doesn't sound like an accident.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on October 27, 2010, 10:12:42 AM
(http://imgur.com/TuhDH.jpg)

This chucklefuck is on the School Board for Midland School District in Arkansas (http://gayrights.change.org/blog/view/arkansas_school_board_member_says_gay_students_should_get_aids_and_die).
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 27, 2010, 03:07:20 PM
That's, verbatim, the phrase that got Michael "Savage" Weiner booted from MSNBC.  Could be a coincidence, but I wouldn't be surprised if we had a talk radio fan here.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 27, 2010, 03:09:00 PM
...also, standard dressing-down for providing no fucking context on that link; article headline is Arkansas School Board Member Says Gay Students Should "Get AIDS and Die".

(Would put this in an edit but the company firewall is inexplicably blocking the edit page while still allowing me to read the thread and post in it.)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 27, 2010, 03:20:23 PM
(Also: the reason Websense gives for filtering out the "Modify" link is that it is a streaming media site.)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on October 27, 2010, 03:44:10 PM
I ... would have thought the image would be the context?  Since it's an image of the words?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Niku on October 27, 2010, 03:47:30 PM
Your image is broken on my end.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Beat Bandit on October 27, 2010, 03:49:36 PM
On every end.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on October 27, 2010, 04:05:54 PM
Oh.  Lemme fix that, then.  Worked for me but it must just be cached.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 27, 2010, 04:23:39 PM
Ah, can see it now.

(Maybe we should put in a feature request for alt text.)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on October 29, 2010, 05:48:48 PM
Christine O'Donnell had drunken random near-one-night-stand. (http://gawker.com/5674353/i-had-a-one+night-stand-with-christine-odonnell)

Now, why is this important? It's a pretty crass piece, one that some are arguing is sexist, or at least irrelevant and mean-spirited.

Because the dude she almost slept with documented it. And he is someone who knows how to take photos 4chan the internets will LOVE.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Friday on October 29, 2010, 06:00:53 PM
She should shave her pubes into a US Flag
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on October 29, 2010, 06:36:19 PM
Wow. I feel sympathy for her. I bet a lot of voters feel the same too. Although, I'm sure that was not the intent (Hanlon's Razor).
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Beat Bandit on October 29, 2010, 06:42:41 PM
You feel sympathy for someone who has a record of saying that people who get naked and in bed with strangers are wretched beasts and building a political campaign off the belief being called out on having done just that?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on October 29, 2010, 07:12:55 PM
I feel sympathy for someone whose sex life is dredged up by an "anonymous source" as scandal fodder.  I'm not talking like getting caught in a public bathroom or a glory hole or something. If it was that, then yeah, I'd be right there with you.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Beat Bandit on October 29, 2010, 07:23:55 PM
It's wholly possible that I'm blinded by my love of Gawker's articles, but I thought their follow-up (http://gawker.com/5676725/why-we-published-the-christine-odonnell-story) did a good job of expressing the exact reasons it's a good thing for people to be able to hear about. They're not calling her a deranged slut, they're just providing a means of exposing hypocrisy.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on October 29, 2010, 07:25:30 PM
It would be more scandal fodder if it weren't for the fact that Christine O'Donnell wants to public chastise others who do what she did.  The story isn't about her having a naked sleepover, it's that she wants to tell others it's wrong for them to have naked sleepovers.

Gawker has a pretty good rebuttal to the criticisms leveled at them (http://gawker.com/5676725/why-we-published-the-christine-odonnell-story?skyline=true&s=i)

Quote
"Slut-shaming" is telling women that if they indulge their sexual desires they are impure. It's telling them that if they view pornography, there is something wrong with them. Christine O'Donnell seeks to "shame" "sluts" on an hourly basis. Worse, she believes people who hop into bed with people they barely know who happen to be of the same sex suffer from an "identity disorder" and are "deviants." She has repeatedly chosen, of her own volition, to make it her business to condemn the private sexual behaviors of millions of men and women who believe, or behave, differently than she does. She's of course free to do so. But when it turns out that her own private sexual behavior doesn't measure up to her public rhetoric—that she "push[es] the limits" without crossing the line as opposed to "living through the power of Christ's blood"—it deserves to be noted. And the argument that someone's private life shouldn't be the object of public attention isn't really available to someone who has manufactured a political and pseudo-celebrity career out of publicly casting judgment on the private behavior of others.
...
A good deal of the reaction to the piece was governed by revulsion at the voice of Anonymous, who certainly comes off as a dick. So yes, we will grant you that the 25-year-old guy Christine O'Donnell drunkenly pursued, and bedded, on Halloween night three years ago is not a gentleman. We wish she had better taste in guys. But our publication of his account wasn't intended as a celebration of his character. It was intended to expose the lies and hypocrisy of a U.S. Senate candidate and prominent Tea Party conservative who uses her own purported chastity and righteousness to market herself and gain political power.

This is no different from when anti-gay activists hire male prostitutes (http://deceiver.com/2010/05/05/anti-gay-activist-and-baptist-minister-hires-male-prostitue-as-his-luggage-handler-for-european-vacation/) or when a governor famed for being tough on prostitution is caught in a prostitution scandal (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/nyregion/10cnd-spitzer.html).  From my perspective, these are things people should be able to do without anyone interfering in their private lives.  But because these people have already taken the position of condemning others for these actions, they deserve to be exposed for their own hypocrisy.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on October 29, 2010, 07:40:42 PM
Well, now I don't know what to think.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on October 29, 2010, 07:47:27 PM
She can't do the penitent sinner schtick here, because that is already kind of her schtick, see the various obnoxious brayings about her "being a witch".
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on October 29, 2010, 08:16:46 PM
"Can we burn her?"








Sorry.









Well no, not really.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on October 29, 2010, 08:18:24 PM
Whenever I feel like I should have sympathy or pity for her, it makes me feel really bad because I'm pretty sure it's me being a patronizing misogynist.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on October 29, 2010, 08:32:58 PM
Okay, well, has this story been verified by a source that's not a liberal activist blog?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Beat Bandit on October 29, 2010, 09:20:20 PM
It's been verified by a dozen responses from her PR team, none of which were "that didn't happen".
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on October 30, 2010, 05:28:34 AM
Also, the photos kind of make it a lot more legit than a random story. You could always argue "Photoshop!", but as has just been pointed out, she hasn't really denied it anyway.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on October 30, 2010, 07:05:23 AM
Well, now I don't know what to think.

As long as you are thinking, really.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on October 30, 2010, 09:57:52 AM
I hope she gets elected anyway.  That's four years of a Tea Party frontperson who will be shot right the fuck down the moment she ever even dares to touch on social agenda.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Beat Bandit on October 30, 2010, 10:46:32 AM
When you get stomped on by a political rival, make stompade.
Stop Rand Paul on Election Day (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmEQs58tOhs#)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on October 30, 2010, 01:09:03 PM
I hope she gets elected anyway.  That's four years of a Tea Party frontperson who will be shot right the fuck down the moment she ever even dares to touch on social agenda.

That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.  People can realize how stupid her ideas on social and economic policy are without having to endure her.  You seem to repeating this thing lately about how you think these people must be elected just so everyone can see how ridiculous they are.  Which isn't really valid considering the 8 years prior to the Dems taking the government.  We can tell how ridiculous and epically stupid they are without having to give them the ability to guide legislation.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on October 30, 2010, 02:24:21 PM
The polls do not seem to agree with you on that one.

And let's face it, we had to get Obama into office before we realized he was kind of an impotent rube.  That's just how it goes.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on October 30, 2010, 03:26:40 PM
And let's face it, we had to get Obama into office before we realized he was kind of an impotent rube.  That's just how it goes.

That's kind of a false equivalency, though.  We're unhappy with Obama because he's doing things he said he wouldn't do, and not doing things he said he would.  I'm not willing to risk 6 years of Christine O'Donnell in the hopes that she doesn't mean what she says.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on October 31, 2010, 07:23:57 AM
I think the thinking there is something along the lines of "Fine, you're too stupid to understand why this is bad? Okay let's race to the bottom as fast as we can. Then you'll see. Then we'll all see."

The belief is that people are too stupid to learn without visceral and sustained experience and that only a horrible crisis will "teach people", that as a group, people always have to learn the hard way.

It's possible that thinking is right - the jury's still out on that one. But even if it is, you just can't encourage it. Because the problem with that line of reasoning is that it effectively duplicates the same reasoning that precipitates crises so great they don't just bring down leaders or political parties, but entire governments and ways of life.   
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on October 31, 2010, 10:16:35 AM
My thinking is more along the lines of "The main thing keeping the Tea Party in check is the extremely stupid and unlikable people they have out as frontmen."  Keeping one or two of them in the public eye (Rand Paul RAND PAUL RAND PAUL) will make it harder for the rest of them to silently be complete fuckshits.  And as I said, in this case the person we're enduring would be a complete cripple in the realm of "let's enforce our crazy standards on people", and may even drive some moderates left in 2012 when the stakes are slightly higher.

It's always distasteful to think of politics as a game of Chess, but the cold reality is you have to sacrifice some pawns sometimes.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on October 31, 2010, 10:30:26 AM
I'm not sure that's a winning strategy, though.
The dissatisfaction of the base and moderates seems to be from not getting the progressive results they wanted. The liberals not being liberal enough.
Maybe I'm watching too much daily show.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on October 31, 2010, 10:35:36 AM
Which is why I almost look forward to the next two years; there's no way they can possibly do any of the shit they promised, and in 2012 they're going to have to stand there impotently and keep leaning on the same argument that this is all somehow the liberals' fault.

Also, I benefit from a recession, so have fun.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on October 31, 2010, 10:45:31 AM
keep leaning on the same argument that this is all somehow the liberals' fault.

If it ain't broke.

Also, I hate you and your job security. So much.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on October 31, 2010, 01:50:13 PM
On the subject of Liberals not being liberal enough (with some tangeantial relation to the subject at hand).

One of the biggest snowjobs of the past thirty years is how the hyperrich have so successfully sold the idea that everyday people can join their ranks by allowing as much laissez-fair deregulation as possible. Until it becomes inescapably clear that this is a fat load of complete bullshit, the left will be trapped into paying (at the very least) lip service to right-wing extremists. Even though it's a complete fabrication, killing the 'dream' is political suicide.

Over-educated folks always bring up statistics or other data that demonstrate the middle class is eroding and standards of living are declining, but as much as people claim things are harder, it's not being felt on a truly visceral level yet. so as scary as the numbers are, there's little political effect. The middle (and working) classes are stressed and worn, but have managed to (barely) hold on to the same lifestyles as they had 30 years ago by sacrificing things in other areas: Reduced long-term security (pensions, job security), the two-income household being normalized, bigger workloads, cheaper, more disposable products, and vastly increased indebtedness (with the last one being the real killer). I'd say we're reaching the limits of that squeezing, but who knows maybe things can get worse still without actually crashing?

I suspect it is only when (or if!) the Great Robber Baron con job of the late 20th century has been completely exposed that you will see a resurgence of true old-fashioned populist leftism (whether or not you think that's a good thing is another question). The problem is of course that (probably) the only way it will become inescapably clear is for a fiscal disaster to take place that dwarfs the Great Recession* (I laugh every time anyone uses that ridiculous term). But if we do reach a point where there's a massive crash, rather than the current generational erosion, all bets will be off.

* Really the recession represents the moment that the Government finally and wholly bought the same stupid rationalizations that individuals have been swallowing for three decades. So the same behaviour resulted: The rules weren't really changed, a ludicrous sum of money was spent just to hang on to the status quo with our fingernails and wealthy folks somehow wound up with a giant pile of someone else's money. Even the Clinton administration manged to hold some vestige of skepticism, however marginal.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 31, 2010, 06:33:30 PM
First problem with Brent's reasoning is, Christine O'Donnell has no shot at getting elected.  She never did.  Going with the politics-as-chess meme, I've always wanted to explore primaries as exercises in minmaxing -- and the Tea Party has thrown the game completely out of whack.  They've picked, in this case and in some others, candidates who have no shot at winning in a general election.

Which is why I almost look forward to the next two years; there's no way they can possibly do any of the shit they promised

After the Bush Administration, there's little I won't believe either in terms of what the Republicans will push or what the Democrats will allow.

I basically draw the line at Constitutional amendments -- and, granted, amending the Constitution (to repeal #14, #16, and #17) IS a plank in the Tea Party Platform.  But I do think they can do some damage.

And I don't really see much benefit in keeping O'Donnell out there front-and-center -- as Bill Maher said, she's really just a nicer version of Sarah Palin.  She's dumb but she's not mean (even if her views are).

Sharron Angle is probably a better example of a situation where we can afford to lose somebody -- partly because she actually stands a chance of winning, and partly because I just hate Harry Reid that much.  Of course, there's always the possibility that the Democrats will, in their infinite wisdom, pick an even WORSE leader.  (I got to thinking, the other day, about whether Reid or Daschle was worse.  Ultimately I have to go with Daschle, because allowing us to get into the Iraq War is the single biggest failure of the Democratic Party in my lifetime.)

and in 2012 they're going to have to stand there impotently and keep leaning on the same argument that this is all somehow the liberals' fault.

That IS part of what happened in '06 -- the evangelicals realized they'd been sold a bill of goods with the half-assed attempt at an anti-gay marriage amendment in '04 -- but I think it was more that the moderates were sick of the war, sick of corruption, and sick of Bush.

keep leaning on the same argument that this is all somehow the liberals' fault.

If it ain't broke.

Yeah, ask the Democrats how well "The reason we haven't done the shit we said we would is because these guys keep saying no all the time" works as a campaign slogan.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on October 31, 2010, 06:41:04 PM
That's a false analogy. Republicans as a party give the illusion of understanding politics and campaigns from time-to-time.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on November 12, 2010, 07:11:12 AM
Quote
Rep. John Shimkus (R-Ill.), who will seek the Energy and Commerce Committee chairmanship maintains that we do not have to worry about climate change because God promised in the Bible not to destroy the world again after Noah’s flood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7h08RDYA5E# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7h08RDYA5E#)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Ted Belmont on November 12, 2010, 07:50:20 AM
On behalf of my state, I apologize.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on November 12, 2010, 05:59:30 PM
"Illinois Fundies.

I hate Illinois Fundies."
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on November 12, 2010, 07:24:25 PM
I like how the specific problem with that set of quotes is also the specific problem with many people's misconception of the environmental crisis: It's not the world that's going to die, it's just us.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on November 12, 2010, 08:38:46 PM
On behalf of my state, I apologize.

They have heavy sticks. Please take this into account as a factor mitigating our cowardice.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Shinra on November 13, 2010, 02:49:04 PM
I once heard a quote that was something to the effect of;

"The world can only be 4,000 years old! The proof is all right there, in the bible - in the bible, it says god made the world in six days, and on the seventh day, he rested!. It's right there in the bible!"

I think it's ironic that in the early 1800s we elected a a man who was very nearly an atheist to the presidency, but it would have been political suicide for anyone in that room to interrupt him and say 'the bible has nothing to do with the preceding of government, and in relation to the preceding of government you are entitled to neither your free speech nor your freedom of religion'.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on November 21, 2010, 03:55:13 PM
Westboro clowns are going to up the crazy-stakes (http://www.koco.com/r/25833473/detail.html)

I can only applaud their race to the bottom, though I do hope someone stops them before they actually protest at a child's funeral, for the love of God.

Interesting note about the trouble they had in OK: Apparently no one in town would fix their car (haha!), but not only that, a fellow I knew was in town then. They asked him for the time and he refused to tell them.

That's right. He literally wouldn't give them the time of day.

:glee:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on November 21, 2010, 06:38:34 PM
When you said 'Westboro clowns,' I immediately thought of the kind with floppy shoes and red noses, and just how surreal a protest by them would be, especially at a child's funeral.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on November 21, 2010, 07:11:23 PM
What in the Fuck Has Obama Done So Far? (http://whatinthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com/)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on November 21, 2010, 07:54:52 PM
There's a trite quote in there somewhere about unworldly well-intentioned intellectuals being the most susceptible to bad rationalizations for immoral acts, but any amount of pondering the situation makes me too depressed to come up with such a quip (or reinvent an old one).
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on November 21, 2010, 08:09:23 PM
I'm confused by what you mean.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on November 21, 2010, 08:10:30 PM
I think he's completely ignoring you, Soup.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on November 21, 2010, 08:19:13 PM
Inconceivable.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on November 21, 2010, 08:43:59 PM
Yeah, that was a (poorly worded) comment on the contents of the link, not on anything Constantine s-

OH WAIT, I GET IT. AHA.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on November 21, 2010, 09:03:30 PM
Westboro clowns are going to up the crazy-stakes (http://www.koco.com/r/25833473/detail.html)

I can only applaud their race to the bottom, though I do hope someone stops them before they actually protest at a child's funeral, for the love of God.

The trouble is they're very careful to ensure they never do anything illegal.  If the law states you have to stay n feet away from the service, they'll stay n feet away from the service.

At this point they're quite clearly daring people to physically attack them.  First one to raise a hand gets sued.

Of course, I'm not sure they've thought as far ahead as "trial by jury".
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on November 21, 2010, 09:42:44 PM
This is of course only if people attack them publicly.

Hope none of them have children.  Sort of.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on November 22, 2010, 04:58:25 AM
Hope none of them have children.  Sort of.

It's all one really, really large family.  But, last I read, all the daughters were "Saving themselves for Jesus", which means they would never even get married.

That doesn't mean there might not accidentally be some new Phelpses in the world, but at least the cancer isn't actively spreading.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on November 22, 2010, 08:32:40 AM
"Saving themselves for Jesus" could also man Phelps doesn't want to share.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on November 22, 2010, 08:35:43 AM
It's all one really, really large family.  But, last I read, all the daughters were "Saving themselves for Jesus", which means they would never even get married.

From the interview I saw with the oldest girl a few years back, it wasn't so much that she was "saving herself for Jesus" as she legitimately believed we were living in the end times and it would be cruel to bring children into the world.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on November 22, 2010, 08:40:24 AM
Tomato, tomato.

"Saving themselves for Jesus" could also man Phelps doesn't want to share.

Any chance to call attention to the creepy "Religious Ceremony" that is the Purity Ball (http://www.purityball.com/).
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Beat Bandit on November 22, 2010, 09:22:46 AM
Best parts of the video on the site:

1) Dad taking an hour to get his daughter's bracelet on; her losing patience.

2) Most of those girls are like twelve. Seriously, are we at a point where we have to celebrate a twelve year old still being pure?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on November 22, 2010, 09:25:38 AM
Considering when most girls lose their virginity these days.... yep.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on November 22, 2010, 09:35:57 AM
The most hilarious part is that not-only are they ineffective, they're actually bad for girls (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/28/AR2008122801588.html?hpid=topnewshttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/28/AR2008122801588.html?hpid=topnews)

Quote
Teenagers who pledge to remain virgins until marriage are just as likely to have premarital sex as those who do not promise abstinence and are significantly less likely to use condoms and other forms of birth control when they do, according to a study released today
...
more than half of youths became sexually active before marriage regardless of whether they had taken a "virginity pledge," but that the percentage who took precautions against pregnancy or sexually transmitted diseases was 10 points lower for pledgers than for non-pledgers.

Emphasis mine.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on November 22, 2010, 09:50:30 AM
Sooo... like pretty much everything else "abstinence-only" related?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on November 22, 2010, 12:24:44 PM
"Daddy I Do" documentary TRAILER (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X4BO56waGg#ws)

Yeeeeah...
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Eponymous Bosch on November 23, 2010, 02:11:11 PM
Not sure if this is the right thread for this, but I guess the Southern Poverty Law Center finally listed the American Family Association* and the Family Research Council as anti-LGBT hate groups.  So... does this actually mean anything?  It doesn't seem like it does, other than that both groups can now tell their followers, "Oh, you can now safely ignore anything the SPLC has to say.  They've proven themselves deluded and no better than the ACLU/ACORN/ACRONYM."

*Their site now seems to stream Fox live on there, so that's subtle and neat.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on November 24, 2010, 09:14:49 PM
(http://colorlines.com/archival_images/ppd_3_112310.jpg)

Apparently the Privilege Denying Dude meme hit a nerve. (http://colorlines.com/archives/2010/11/social_justice_comedy.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+racewireblog+(ColorLines))
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Eponymous Bosch on November 24, 2010, 10:01:52 PM
I'm just happy to see Ryan Gosling for any reason.

Um, also, I guess this is as good a place and time as any to bring this up (unless it's already been brought up): people on 4chan were falling over themselves to heap praise on this video, but since it's 4chan, I have no idea if this was done ironically or earnestly.  Either way, it's the worst video and the guy has a book out of the same name, so if you want to ruin your night, check out the reviews on Amazon.

What Men Know That Women Don't (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLPDBGZiT54#)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on November 25, 2010, 09:34:10 PM
Sorry, but James Brown did that already. And not only is his version is about a thousand times better, it's also a lot shorter.

It's A Man's Man's Man's World - James Brown (Lyrics) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwuO2dfqrF4#)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Ted Belmont on November 30, 2010, 07:59:12 PM
Tea party leader: restricting voting rights to property owners 'makes a lot of sense'. (http://thinkprogress.org/2010/11/30/tea-party-voting-property/)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on November 30, 2010, 09:38:56 PM
Do you remember a time when women weren't allowed to vote and certain people weren't allowed on golf courses?  Petridge Farm remembers.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Dooly on November 30, 2010, 10:55:08 PM
The obvious question there is whether or not non-land-owners will then be exempt from paying taxes.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on December 01, 2010, 04:23:59 AM
Ah, I love being slathered in hot, creamy hypocrisy in the morning.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on December 01, 2010, 04:54:46 AM
The GOP used to want to bring America back to some idyllic 1950s that never existed.  With the emergence of the tea party, they're dead set on taking us back to 1850.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on December 01, 2010, 05:22:49 AM
Hahaha!

Bring back property qualifications? I knew some idiot was going to propose that! I fuckin' KNEW IT!

Laughing so hard IRL, you have no idea.

Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on December 01, 2010, 06:23:04 AM
The GOP used to want to bring America back to some idyllic 1950s that never existed.  With the emergence of the tea party, they're dead set on taking us back to 27 BC.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Norondor on December 01, 2010, 06:31:59 AM
so, like, now that the right is MOTHERFUCKING CAESAR'S LEGION, can we please all admit i was right and start a horrifying purge?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on December 01, 2010, 07:48:24 AM
so, like, now that the right is MOTHERFUCKING CAESAR'S LEGION, can we please all admit i was right and start a horrifying purge?
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu23/Bon_Bon_2009/scruffy-1.jpg)

I wish exodus to Canada were a viable option, but that would only serve to empower them, and we can't let that fucking happen.  There's a good chance they'd start trying to conquer the world with military force and go about war the old way, where civilians gave a 3X multiplier bonus rather than -50pts
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Detonator on December 01, 2010, 05:10:08 PM
As much as I'd like to pile on here, had anyone actually heard of Judson Phillips before this and does being the president of the "Tea Party Nation" actually mean anything?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on December 01, 2010, 06:39:30 PM
Nope, but the Tea Party is a pretty disorganized "organization" anyway, with a boatload of factional infighting.

The main point is that it's possible that there's an argument to be made for "regressing" the US to it's isolationist era (effectively decimating all international commitments and plowing the resources back into purely commercial pursuits). I don't necessarily agree with such an argument or think it would be a good idea (or practical), but there's a cogent argument somebody could make, and it's a debate the US could probably stand to have.

But since the Tea Party is mostly made up of complete morons, they pick bizarre and random things to cling to - things which call back to an older time, like "OMG GOLD STANDARD" - with no real understanding of the underlying causes of such phenomena. So, comedy. Even if they wouldn't all call for a return to a property qualifications for voting, it's an absolutely perfect example of the kind of batshit thinking that drives the movement.

Hell, just look at their name.

P.S. This was by far my favourite comment on the article:

Quote from: Grinder
renters still have a vested interest in the area they live in. maybe not as much as owners. perhaps 3/5ths of a vote is appropriate?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on December 01, 2010, 08:48:40 PM
Quote
3/5ths of a vote

I'm calling troll.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Detonator on December 01, 2010, 09:13:29 PM
Quote
3/5ths of a vote

I'm calling troll.

Did you mean blindingly obvious joke?  I don't think that was meant to be taken seriously by anyone.  Hell, I assume even Mongrel got it, and he's not even American.

Though now I can't find that comment in the article.  Maybe it was deleted after Mongrel copied it?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on December 01, 2010, 09:16:10 PM
Oh, I thought he was quoting the article, not the comments section.  Kind of not paying a whole hell of a lot of attention here.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on December 01, 2010, 09:44:14 PM
But since the Tea Party is mostly made up of complete morons, they pick bizarre and random things to cling to - things which call back to an older time, like "OMG GOLD STANDARD" - with no real understanding of the underlying causes of such phenomena. So, comedy. Even if they wouldn't all call for a return to a property qualifications for voting, it's an absolutely perfect example of the kind of batshit thinking that drives the movement.

Indeed; these are the guys who want to roll back birthright citizenship, the income tax, and election of senators.  Hell, they're halfway through the teens; why not start repealing amendments in the twenties while they're at it?

And speaking of birthright citizenship, the New Times (http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2010/11/russell_pearce_14th_amendment.php) has a pretty good takedown of the "Fourteenth Amendment wasn't intended to give citizenship to the children of illegal immigrants" revisionism.

Quote from: Senator John Conness, R-CA, 1866
The proposition before us, I will say, Mr. President, relates simply in that respect to the children begotten of Chinese parents in California, and it is proposed to declare that they shall be citizens. We have declared that by law; now it is proposed to incorporate the same provision in the fundamental instrument of the nation. I am in favor of doing so. I voted for the proposition to declare that the children of all parentage whatever, born in California, should be regarded and treated as citizens of the United States, entitled to equal civil rights with other citizens of the United States.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Norondor on December 01, 2010, 10:53:51 PM
Quote from: Grinder
renters still have a vested interest in the area they live in. maybe not as much as owners. perhaps 3/5ths of a vote is appropriate?

this was literally exactly the joke my brother made
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on December 02, 2010, 05:20:26 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101202/ap_on_bi_ge/us_tax_cuts (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101202/ap_on_bi_ge/us_tax_cuts) "Lawmakers negotiate tax cuts as House plans votes"

From Mitch McConnell
Quote
Forty-two Senate Republicans signed a letter to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., saying they intend to block action on all Democratic-backed legislation until the Senate votes on extending the Bush tax cuts, as well as a budget bill needed to keep funding the government into next year.

Wow.  Really?  You're going to shut down the Senate until you get your way?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on December 02, 2010, 06:01:54 AM
They must be taking a cue from Stephen Harper.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Ted Belmont on December 02, 2010, 06:26:53 AM
Republicans have attempted to block action on every single piece of legislature in the Senate since 2007. So basically, they're just pledging to keep doing what they've been doing the whole time.

Still, it's nice to see them exposing the ugliness at the heart of their party, as they are basically saying that unfunded tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans are more important to them than things like unemployment benefits, repealing DADT, and a nuclear arms treaty that has wide unilateral support.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on December 02, 2010, 08:41:39 AM
If the Democratic Party were competent, this would be an excellent Christmas present.  "See?  You put Republicans in power and they immediately threaten to shut down the government unless we give tax cuts to billionaires."

The Democratic Party is, of course, NOT competent, so what we're going to see is the Republicans bellow that they won't extend unemployment benefits until the Democrats come up with a way to pay for it...and then the tax cuts and unemployment benefits will be passed in the same bill.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on December 02, 2010, 01:18:46 PM
Heard on the radio that the tax cuts were retained for everyone making less than 200k.  Don't have source.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on December 02, 2010, 02:09:18 PM
....they won't extend unemployment benefits until...way to pay for it...and then the tax cuts and unemployment benefits will be passed in the same bill.

Why does anyone even listen to Republican fiscal ideas?  "You know what the best way to pay for something is?  If you don't make money!"
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on December 02, 2010, 03:11:28 PM
Why does anyone even listen to Republican fiscal ideas?

Same reason they keep running up credit card debt.

(In fairness, the Democrats want to run up debt too.  They just want to spend slightly less of it subsidizing the richest people in the country.)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on December 02, 2010, 03:15:29 PM
The funny thing is I initially misread Constantine's post as "Why does anyone even listen to Republican feudal ideas?"
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on December 02, 2010, 09:35:25 PM
Heard on the radio that the tax cuts were retained for everyone making less than 200k.  Don't have source.

LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/sc-dc-house-tax-vote-20101202,0,3604563.story), and it's everyone making less than $250K.  Actually, it's everything UP TO $250K, so yeah the people who make more than that would still keep their tax cuts on everything UP TO that.

I expect a filibuster in the Senate, because yes indeed the Republicans DO have the balls to say they'll block everything until tax cuts are decided and then turn around and block tax cuts, and the Democrats are too incompetent to score political points on THE OPPOSITION FILIBUSTERING MIDDLE-CLASS TAX CUTS.  Seriously, they're fucking worthless.

Ultimately, all the tax cuts are going to be extended.  If we're lucky it'll only be temporary, but I wouldn't bet on that, either.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on December 05, 2010, 09:41:52 AM
A funny thought occurred to me this morning.

You know who the last group was that appealed to a the founding fathers as a final authority and supposed source for all kind of ridiculous bullshit as thoroughly as the Tea Party is trying to do now?

The Confederacy.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on December 05, 2010, 09:58:00 AM
I'm sorry, the correct answer is "Every conservative ever from the time Andrew Jackson was elected."
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on December 05, 2010, 10:17:46 AM
Well, that's why I inserted the word "thoroughly".
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on December 07, 2010, 05:40:31 PM
So apparently Palin's outdoors skills and hunting ability are a fabrication, and real hunters are less than thrilled to find out. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/hunter-becomes-the-hunted-as-palin-critics-say-she-cant-shoot-2153973.html)

OH I'M SO SORRY TO HEAR THAT. :glee:

EDIT: Love this comment from elsewhere:

Quote
Except for the parts that involve loading, shooting, discharging, waiting, and carrying things, Sarah Palin is a master of the hunt.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on December 07, 2010, 06:20:54 PM
(http://tappedout.net/media/mtg-cards/legends/master-of-the-hunt.jpg)

YOU DISAPPOINT ME, SARAH

SIC 'ER, BOYS
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on December 15, 2010, 08:45:48 AM
"Drink the Spit" (Abstinence-Only Lesson #1) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoIeXgCfwNI#ws)

"Girls Shouldn't Have Ideas" (Abstinence-Only Lesson #2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmwJvgKTTjw#ws)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Ted Belmont on December 17, 2010, 09:32:08 AM
For those of you who didn't see last night's Daily Show, it's definitely worth watching (http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/thu-december-16-2010-mike-huckabee)(even with the annoying ads).

Jon expertly takes apart the Republicans on this one, and drives home something that the Dems should make their #1 message: Republicans care more about tax cuts for the wealthy than providing $7 million in health care and assistance for 9/11 first responders, who are literally(in the true sense of the word) DYING. One of the guys on the panel mentions that he died twice last year. And it's a $7 million bill. 7 million dollars is nothing. That's barely more than we spend on a SINGLE Abrams tank.

Huckabee's interview is a perfect example of why I can't stand him. He seems likeable enough, but here you can see the him slimeballing in real time as he tries to figure out a way to pin the blocking of the bill on the Dems, even going so far as to accuse them of turning this into a political issue(which they haven't, although they should). The whole time, he skirts around the real issue, which is that Republicans are putting tax cuts for the wealthy and political grandstanding ahead of real people who are suffering and dying. Absolutely despicable.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: sei on December 17, 2010, 02:42:38 PM
NoScript lets you get around TDS's ads.

Nothing I've tried with Chrome will. (Writing a greasemonkey script would probably work, but there's no useful domain white-listing mechanism for scripting permissions. Ghostery doesn't cut the mustard.)

EDIT: Correction. Firefox's version of Adblock Plus gets around those ads. Chrome's version does not.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on January 13, 2011, 09:02:15 PM
Passing something along:

Quote from:
So, how did this not make it on the news back in November (http://www.southwesterncollegesun.com/news/sun-tv-bob-filner-harassed-at-golden-hall-by-challenger-1.1744755)?

Tea Party-affiliated GOP candidate and his supporters physically attack Democratic winner and staff in front of San Diego's city hall.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Beat Bandit on January 14, 2011, 09:51:39 AM
I tend to not trust reports given by a voice that sounds like it wants to sell me lemonade.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on January 17, 2011, 04:40:52 PM
Fox News would like to wish you a happy MLK day!

(http://i.imgur.com/teoDp.png)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on April 01, 2011, 05:22:47 PM
In the Florida State Legislature, "uterus" is a dirty word (http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-buzz-florida-politics/content/democrat-chastized-saying-uterus-house-floor)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on April 03, 2011, 06:12:28 PM
This is some tiny no-name paper (possibly a student rag), but the article seeeeeeems legit (obviously I'm not putting 100% stock in this).

Need a totally staged caller for your phone-in talk radio show? We can help! (http://www.cjr.org/the_kicker/premiere_plants.php)

So assuming this checks out... "This is my surprised face."
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Shinra on April 05, 2011, 08:04:15 AM
Audience plants are nothing new in the world of sensationalist pseudo-journalism, so I can't say I'm shocked. I imagine it's more surprising for Canadians, where there are actually laws against this shit, but in the states it's par for the course.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on April 05, 2011, 04:44:41 PM
Yeah, it's not exactly a surprise per se. More that the adverts are so shameless. And name the names of shows that use their services.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on June 19, 2011, 02:01:18 PM
http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/weigel/archive/2011/06/14/the-most-offensive-political-ad-ever-this-hour.aspx (http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/weigel/archive/2011/06/14/the-most-offensive-political-ad-ever-this-hour.aspx)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on June 19, 2011, 05:21:34 PM
Those two guys must have the least self-respect of just about any human on earth.

Or just come real cheap.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on June 19, 2011, 08:11:58 PM
You can tell from their facial expressions that they're already counting the weeks it'll take to drink the shame out of their memories.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on June 22, 2011, 03:06:21 PM
Roe v. Wade is in danger. (http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/comments/is_roe_safe_absolutely_not)

(still)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on June 22, 2011, 05:45:05 PM
That posting isn't dated, but in it she uses the phrase "If Obama is elected".

:/
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: sei on June 22, 2011, 05:54:37 PM
She's talking about 2012. Obama isn't Lord-God Emperor for life; there's an upcoming election.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on June 22, 2011, 06:01:22 PM
That posting isn't dated, but in it she uses the phrase "If Obama is elected".

:/

Ah, but she refers to the recent Walmart v. Dukes case.  Of course, she does so by way of grotesque mischaracterisation of the case and the arguments of both sides, as though it were an instance of blatant misogyny in the Supreme Court instead of an obviously correct decision, so yeah I'm not inclined to take any of the rest of these words as being informed opinions either.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on June 22, 2011, 06:15:10 PM
She's talking about 2012. Obama isn't Lord-God Emperor for life; there's an upcoming election.

Okay, well, wouldn't that be re-elected, and not elected?

And she talks about the possibility of him making Supreme Court appointments in a way that implies he hasn't made any yet.

Though TA seems to have a relevant point. Unless she was talking about pre-trial stuff? Those things usually take a long time, after all.

Well, I guess we can all agree she's misinformed.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: sei on June 22, 2011, 06:35:00 PM
The process by which he would potentially be re-elected is referred to as an election. Elected is less specific than re-elected, but nonetheless not incorrect.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on June 22, 2011, 08:19:31 PM
No need to play semantic games. I think we all know that common usage is re-elected for a re-election. 
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Kfroog on June 22, 2011, 09:06:56 PM
Mongrel, did you read the same thing I did? She also refers to Obama's two previous appointees.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on June 23, 2011, 07:22:38 AM
Oh I already acknowledged that TA was right in my earlier post.

I just think Sei was being silly.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on July 20, 2011, 07:00:36 PM
You Americanos probably don't know this, but a public school in Toronto had permitted Muslim students to do their daily prayer in the school, rather than walk to a local mosque.

Naturally, this has created an uproar throughout the region and beyond. (http://life.nationalpost.com/2011/07/11/muslim-prayer-in-school-exposes-flaws-of-religious-accomodation/) Every newspaper in the country is talking about it. Many other religious groups, particularly Christian, Jewish and Hindu are protesting the action, (http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110719/group-protest-over-muslim-school-prayer-110719/20110719?hub=TorontoNewHome) since, y'know, they don't allow Christmas pageants and such. Another concern is that not only have they segregated girls and boys during the prayer, (http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2011/07/11/girls-should-not-be-segregated-on-public-school-property/) but menstruating girls aren't permitted to pray at all! So yeah, lots of controversy and clashes over whether or not this is okay. Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty is, as usual, passing the buck. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/dalton-mcguinty-says-school-boards-should-decide-how-to-accommodate-prayer/article2102764/)

Heh. You guys get a "Ground Zero Mosque," we debate about prayer in schools.
go leafs go
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on July 20, 2011, 08:17:22 PM
Maybe McGuinty just remembers what happened to John Tory when he was running for premier.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on September 12, 2011, 04:18:28 PM
Introducing... BB guns for girls! (http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2011/09/11/its-fun-for-a-girl-or-a-boy/)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Disposable Ninja on September 12, 2011, 04:34:10 PM
I really hate that shit. "What the fuck? You're giving those people privileges that we enjoy! You should give us even more privileges so that things will be equal!"
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Friday on September 12, 2011, 04:37:54 PM
NOW INTRODUCING PINK BULLETS
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Friday on September 12, 2011, 04:38:47 PM
COMING SOON BULLETS CAPABLE OF KILLING GWEN STEFANI
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on September 12, 2011, 04:50:57 PM
There are already bullets capable of killing Gwen Stefani.  Whatcha waiting for?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Friday on September 12, 2011, 05:17:20 PM
a clear shot
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on September 12, 2011, 06:22:46 PM
I really hate that shit. "What the fuck? You're giving those people privileges that we enjoy! You should give us even more privileges so that things will be equal!"

I'm so confused. What?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Disposable Ninja on September 13, 2011, 12:05:40 AM
oh... uh... that was directed at Buge's post... from July.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on September 13, 2011, 04:55:29 AM
Crowd Yells Let Him Die (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PepQF7G-It0#)

Remember, the Right-Wing wants you (yes, you!) to die.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on September 13, 2011, 05:34:46 AM
NYT article on Th' Yout's moral blindness (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/opinion/if-it-feels-right.html?_r=1)

Now, there's a bit of "Oh no! Moral Standards!" hand-wringing going on here, but I think it's an interesting read all the same. I'd have liked more info though.

 
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Beat Bandit on September 13, 2011, 05:58:32 AM
Finally a social problem we may actually be able to blame video games for in part.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Caithness on September 13, 2011, 07:26:49 AM
Wait, I don't see the connection. How do video games lead/contribute to moral relativism? I would think that in some ways they replace the institutions that the article was talking about that anchor children's sense of morality to society's.

Or is that the problem?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on September 13, 2011, 01:01:09 PM
Well, the sub-genre of 'morality' games, the ones with 'moral choices' such as the Shin Megami Tensei series, Mass Effect, Fallout, etc. might be in some way correlated with moral relativity...

That is, if they didn't all fail at least one of the following ways

Yes, I realize those overlap quite a bit.
  EDIT:  Polarization doesn't necessarily mean binary polarization, and you can be evil without being cartoonish so.

And now I can't stop from trying to imagine an overly-complex game morality system that might actually be a good judge of character...
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: NexAdruin on September 13, 2011, 01:07:08 PM
Yes, I realize those overlap quite a bit.

You said the same thing 4 times and stuck "having little to no real moral choices" in between.

So I'm still not sure why video games have anything to do with this.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Friday on September 13, 2011, 01:52:20 PM
Could it be that Catloaf also does not have the vocabulary to talk about Morality!?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Disposable Ninja on September 13, 2011, 02:06:26 PM
That article reads so clearly biased that its obvious agenda has an actual taste to it. "Oh no! These children have open minds! What has public school wrought!?"

I mean, "science" has proven that kids don't have strong morals? What the fuck does that even mean? How is that anything other than bullshit pseudo-science?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on September 13, 2011, 02:48:13 PM
Clearly the consistently falling crime rate indicates some horrific moral failing in our society.  God IS pro-war after all.

I think the roadblock we're dealing with here, besides the fact that the study seems to have been limited to stoned-out/sheltered college kids, is that the youth has no vocabulary to talk to ADULTS about morality, and never did.  The dickhead making these claims probably spent HIS youth wearing sandals and prayer beads and going apeshit because his parents somehow couldn't get the, like, deeper meaning of it all.  Man.

Today's younger generation definitely has a moral code, but you can't just go and say "bros before hos" to a surveyor without making it sound like you don't have any morals at all.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on September 13, 2011, 03:24:59 PM
Even "A Lannister always pays his debts" is honor of a sort.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on September 13, 2011, 03:44:15 PM
at least it's an Ethos.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on September 13, 2011, 04:18:24 PM
Crowd Yells Let Him Die (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PepQF7G-It0#)

Remember, the Right-Wing wants you (yes, you!) to die.

I just realized something. 

This is the Death Panel.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on September 13, 2011, 05:02:43 PM
The crowd said "No, Ron. You are the death panel"
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Beat Bandit on September 13, 2011, 06:29:59 PM
Quote
When asked to describe a moral dilemma they had faced, two-thirds of the young people either couldn’t answer the question or described problems that are not moral at all
Caith and Nex I'm disappointed for reading too far into it. Catloaf I'm just happy didn't threaten to kill anyone in that post.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on September 13, 2011, 06:57:28 PM
Man, I just realized how long it's been since Catloaf threatened to kill someone!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on September 13, 2011, 07:03:15 PM
Catloaf I'm just happy didn't threaten to kill anyone in that post.
Man, I just realized how long it's been since Catloaf threatened to kill someone!
:???:
I honestly don't remember ever threatening to kill people... Perhaps it's blocked out due to the extreme shame...  :nyoro~n:

But if it's been a while, then I was most likely on a different set of pills back then and not as mentally sound.
 :problems:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on September 13, 2011, 07:35:17 PM
High schoolers (separation intentional!) are stereotypically awful at analogies.
That college students don't describe the world in terms of obligation to others isn't really surprising, and it would be unusual for someone so young (and arguably, more infantilized than his predecessors) to definitively prescribe morality.

It is a little worrisome though... When I used the phrase, "If it feels right" I realize now that I was weighing my desires against guilt and my need for self-affirmation. Guilt basically descended, for me, from a very authoritarian set of LAWs. To this day, I'm still made a little uncomfortable by my own nudity.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Joxam on September 13, 2011, 07:40:12 PM

I honestly don't remember ever threatening to kill people... Perhaps it's blocked out due to the extreme shame...  :nyoro~n:


WHHHHAT? I... WHAT

EDIT: it was February.

Quote from: Catloaf
kay, now this is what we would call having "Too much money."

These people (and any heirs to their estates) need to be murdered and have all their money and worldly possessions repossessed by the countries in which the wealth resides.

That, or everyone switch to a new currency, leaving the current one as only as valuable as the paper it's printed on, that the (previously) super-rich are legally not allowed to own or be within a 100ft radius of.

Or we could just take all of them and dump them on a deserted island with no food, water, tools, or means of immediate or future escape.
EDIT: or put them in a Battle Royale

Not only murder, but also all their heirs, and all of there possessions to be taken away.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on September 13, 2011, 08:06:16 PM
What kind of asshole doesn't at least bury a man with his money?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on September 13, 2011, 08:08:24 PM
I prefer to take a select few of their trophies and add them to their cremation pyre. I'm also partial to sending the pyre out into a body of water but I understand this often isn't practical.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Smiler on September 13, 2011, 10:07:55 PM
What kind of asshole doesn't at least bury a man with his money?

Boss Greedwell's Deathbed Wish (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPALLFhBrxY#ws)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on October 07, 2011, 05:50:13 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/EwhNV.jpg)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on October 07, 2011, 07:36:43 PM
I love how they're basically confined to a playpen.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 07, 2011, 07:58:34 PM
"Fag lover Cuomo" is the dumbest failure at an obvious sound-alike I've heard since..."Troll-Ra" instead of "Meme-Ra".
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on October 07, 2011, 08:39:54 PM
Thad, that'd require a huge re-write of the Lion-O vision.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on October 07, 2011, 09:00:45 PM
Reid nukes the Senate (http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/186133-reid-triggers-nuclear-option-to-change-senate-rules-and-prohibit-post-cloture-filibusters).
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 07, 2011, 09:22:08 PM
...I thought the nuclear option was to flat-out declare filibustering unconstitutional, rather than simply eliminate filibuster by amendment.

Still and all, long fucking overdue.  And yes, sooner or later this'll bite the Dems in the ass.  But as I've been saying for years, filibusters are an inherently conservative tool; the occasions where they help progressives are far outnumbered by the occasions where they hinder them.

Which I suppose will be small fucking comfort the next time a Republican President wants to invade Iran, but it's not like the Dems would filibuster that shit anyway.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on November 21, 2011, 05:31:42 PM
Study shows that people who watch FOX News are less informed than those who don't watch news at all (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/21/fox-news-viewers-less-informed-people-fairleigh-dickinson_n_1106305.html#s490342&title=On_the_Record)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on November 21, 2011, 05:33:12 PM
Huffpo.  Biased.

TRY AGAIN, LIBTARD COMMIE

...ow, sorry.  I was just channeling a CNN comment there for a sec.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on November 21, 2011, 06:21:48 PM
Yeah, what's the actual source of the study?  I don't want to have to actually click over to the Huffington Post.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Caithness on November 21, 2011, 06:25:42 PM
It's a study from Fairleigh Dickinson University (http://publicmind.fdu.edu/2011/knowless/).
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on November 22, 2011, 06:28:25 PM
http://nymag.com/print/?/news/politics/conservatives-david-frum-2011-11/ (http://nymag.com/print/?/news/politics/conservatives-david-frum-2011-11/)

David Frum says "Some of my Republican friends ask me if I've gone crazy.  I say, 'Look in the mirror.'"

A really good read.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Norondor on November 22, 2011, 07:03:11 PM
Quote
In the aftershock of 2008, large numbers of Americans feel exploited and abused. Rather than workable solutions, my party is offering low taxes for the currently rich and high spending for the currently old, to be followed by who-knows-what and who-the-hell-cares. This isn’t conservatism; it’s a going-out-of-business sale for the baby-boom generation.

BUT I REPEAT MYSELF
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on November 22, 2011, 08:41:06 PM
Huh.

Not the first time we've seen this kind of thing from Frum. But it's nice to see he's actually sticking by this.

Once again I am reminded of Buckey's last days.

EDIT: Oh man, that Space Program quote. :lol:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on December 21, 2011, 09:23:58 PM
http://www.good.is/post/new-dominionists-meet-the-christian-couple-behind-the-right-s-most-viral-videos/ (http://www.good.is/post/new-dominionists-meet-the-christian-couple-behind-the-right-s-most-viral-videos/)

It's terrifying how reasonable these two come across at first.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on December 21, 2011, 10:36:29 PM
That's the real danger that these fundamentalist extremists pose. They can be anyone.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: fullmooninu on December 22, 2011, 05:06:01 AM
Richard Wilkinson: Como a desigualdade económica prejudica as sociedades (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEIPD7UeQqA#)


This is fun, USA and Portugal are similar, i never would imagine.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on January 16, 2012, 08:32:21 AM
Ten OTHER Things Martin Luther King Said (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIFTNmOOLmk#)

Boondocks - Martin Luther King Speech (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E#)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on January 22, 2012, 11:47:05 AM
Gabby Giffords is going to resign. Unsuprising and I don't blame her in the least (Christ, she was shot in the HEAD, that's a long road back to even partial recovery), but it's still a letdown.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on January 22, 2012, 08:40:50 PM
And now, watch the Republican vultures descend to try and snap up that seat in November.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on January 22, 2012, 09:28:08 PM
Oh, no doubt. If they win that seat, that would seriously be the worst.

In spite of its high failure rate, the reality is that assassinations do work sometimes. And that's REALLY NOT a lesson anyone should want refreshed.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on January 22, 2012, 09:46:38 PM
...even I'm not that cynical.

Yes, it's awful that she has to step down rather than run for reelection.

But, until I see evidence to the contrary, I'm not ready to refer to whoever's running for her seat as a "vulture" (Republican or Democrat -- keep in mind that whoever wins won because she wasn't running, regardless of party).  It's an election year and people are running for a House seat.  That's their right, and it's the voters' right to choose somebody to represent them.

And while I've certainly got opinions on gun control, mental health care, and toxic political discourse, and the role they all played in convincing the voices in Loughner's head that he should shoot his congresswoman, I don't really think it's anywhere near as simple as saying he wanted to put a Republican in her seat.  Dude had some crazy fucking ideas about currency and language; there are people out on the fringe who might have similar (if less schizophrenic) views, but I really don't think that's who's liable to get elected.

Bal (and Paco and Nor, even though they've been out of there for years) can tell you more about Tucson politics than I can, but it's a college town; Giffords herself is pretty middle-of-the-road, though Grijalva's a vocal liberal.

There's also the matter of the new district lines, but my understanding is that's going to have more of an impact in Phoenix Metro than Tucson.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on January 22, 2012, 10:03:53 PM
The problem is we can all see too clearly how very amused the GOP would be if one of them took her seat, intentionally or not.  We do not expect somberness or sobriety here; it'll be a relief if none of them suggest shooting at more liberals.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on January 22, 2012, 10:27:46 PM
I don't think anyone's suggesting Loughner himself had a coherent ideology (or a coherent anything for that matter). He just winds up being a random force that coincidentally happens to further some people's goals.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on January 23, 2012, 05:10:33 AM
Well, I wouldn't be surprised if there were thousands of attack ads in the Tuscon district against whoever happens to be running for Giffords' seat.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on January 23, 2012, 06:23:35 AM
Michelle Goldberg: The Case Against Liberal Despair (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nua8fZ1LcJU#ws)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on February 01, 2012, 07:59:05 AM
Susan G Komen foundation pulls funding for Planned Parenthood. (http://boingboing.net/2012/01/31/bowing-to-anti-abortion-pressu.html)  The funding was used for breast cancer screening.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on February 03, 2012, 01:02:35 PM
Backpedaling. (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57371169-503544/susan-g-komen-reverses-course-will-keep-funding-planned-parenthood/)

Good.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Rico on February 03, 2012, 03:56:26 PM
It's a pretty good half-assed backpedal: Continuing existing commitments but not renewing them, while allowing PP to apply 'normally' for another round. My favorite points so far have been that this policy of cancelling funds towards organizations under investigation didn't seem to apply to Penn State, which had something in the news recently.... and the amount of calls of bullying and hypocrisy or somesuch towards the left from the right. Because, y'know, a right-wing political candidate on Komen's staff pressuring the organization to ignore its mission statement and make a flagrantly-politically-motivated power play is exactly the same as millions of people saying, "Guess we'll donate to Planned Parenthood directly or maybe even the American Cancer Society which is actually focused on stopping cancer and less about throwing fundraising parties with pink stuff."
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on February 05, 2012, 10:11:48 AM
The Republicans are using redistricting to segregate North Carolina (http://www.thenation.com/article/165976/how-gop-resegregating-south).
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on February 05, 2012, 10:54:46 AM
I've always seen this sort of thing as a call to start buying up land in the most affluent gerrymanders and build as many rent-controlled apartment units as you can.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Bal on February 05, 2012, 03:36:52 PM
RE: Gifford's replacement. I'm not really up on local politics enough to know who might be throwing their hats into the ring, but I can tell you right now that Tucson politics are kind of weird in general. Mostly liberal, with a dash of gun toting desert folk.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Shinra on February 05, 2012, 10:15:50 PM
Gun toting liberals are my favorite kind of liberals, since gun-toting liberal politicians can completely silence the groups opposed to it. Gun control isn't exactly an issue driving liberals to the polls, but when you suggest to a remotely right leaning individual that you're going to take their guns away they're leaping into their pickup truck to the polls so fast it'll break the goddamn sound barrier.

It'll be interesting to see how many tens of thousands of miles away from the topic the candidates are going to be staying, though, considering the conditions of Giffords' exit.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on February 13, 2012, 10:16:16 AM
http://youtu.be/fOaCemmsnNk (http://youtu.be/fOaCemmsnNk)

What if a talking head was being fired from Fox News?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Shinra on February 13, 2012, 10:22:57 AM
I can't watch the video at work, our network is taking a shit so big you could see it from space. Summary?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on February 13, 2012, 10:25:14 AM
Yeah, sorry.  Judge Napolitano's show on Fox Business is going away, and so that is just under 5 minutes of him ranting at pretty much everything that we've been chattering on about for the last year or so.  Basically, Republicans and Democrats being two sides of the same damn coin that you're putting in to the penny arcade that is the US political system.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on February 13, 2012, 10:29:28 AM
President Gabe?!

GAME OVER EVERBODY LOSES

(yes, I know you're talking about real penny arcades, I just couldn't resist)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on February 13, 2012, 10:44:11 AM
He said much the same in his Daily Show interview the other day.

It's a great general point, of course, but keep the man's personal politics in mind too.  He's a Paulite, and Daily Show once did the back-to-back "then and now" clip thing with him ranting about freeloading teachers making $50K per year, after having previously ranted that we can't limit CEO bonuses for banks that have received bailout money because they'd lose their incentive to make the banks better.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on February 13, 2012, 02:30:33 PM
It's a great general point, of course, but keep the man's personal politics in mind too.  He's a Paulite

Indeed.  This is exactly like something from Ron Paul.  A rare, mostly agreeable save for one important aspect (in this case, endorsing Ron Paul) short speech shining like a diamond in the rough amongst an endless desert of lunacy and horseshit.

I agree the two-party system needs to be fixed.  But Ron Paul would not and will not save us from it, and what Paul would do, or at least try to do, is awful enough to give one pause for consideration of if hypothetical repair of our broken political system would even be worth it.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mothra on February 13, 2012, 02:40:59 PM
Yeah. I'd almost say it'd be worth the shakeup if I weren't so sure Paul would end up as a perfect example for the powers that be that the status quo is better than any change whatsoever.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on February 13, 2012, 09:28:10 PM
He's not saying anything I haven't been saying for the last few months.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Rico on February 13, 2012, 11:25:32 PM
Think this fits better in here than in LGBT:
Washington's Governor signs gay marriage into law (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017497028_gaymarriage14m.html)... on the same day as a Rick Santorum appearance near Seattle.  :troll:

Quote
Santorum sparred with protesters throughout his speech, trying to draw a rhetorical link between their interruptions and the Obama administration's decisions about government regulations, including the recent controversy over whether religious nonprofits must cover contraception.

"What we see is an intolerance of different points of view, those who do not want the other side to have a voice," Santorum said at the rally.

As protesters continued to disrupt his speech, police dragged two of them away.
:perfect:
We sure do see that, Rick. We sure do.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on February 14, 2012, 07:54:48 AM
I remember there was a speech by Condi Rice where somebody shouted something and got hauled out by security and she made a comment to the effect of "Isn't it nice we have freedom of speech in this country?"

Here's the thing: if "freedom of speech" means "you can say whatever you want as long as you don't mind being hauled off by armed guards," then EVERY country has freedom of speech.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mothra on February 17, 2012, 09:06:49 AM
Great little segment on the Daily Show where Stewart once again deflects a Godwin:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-february-13-2012/the-vagina-ideologues---sean-hannity-s-holy-sausage-fest (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-february-13-2012/the-vagina-ideologues---sean-hannity-s-holy-sausage-fest)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on February 17, 2012, 10:49:33 AM
Could you summarize for those of us not in the USA?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mothra on February 17, 2012, 11:15:02 AM
Huh, is it blocked outside of the US?

In regards to the birth control controversy, Sean Hannity conviened a panel on Fox on the subject of contraception. Was proported to be a diverse panel, with Jewish and Catholic and White and Black men, but predictably zero women.

Very quickly, Hannity drives the conversation to "Is there a war now, on religion?" to which a catholic priest immediately answers "There certainly is!" It clips away, then when it comes back Hannity asks "How many of your would be willing to go to jail for this?" About three quarters raise their hands. A priest goes "If I'm asked to do something that goes against my conscience, I'd better be willing to die for that!"

A guy on an msnbc discussion panel then drops the Godwin in relating this contraception issue to the rise of Nazi Germany, saying that "In the beginning, it starts really really small", another guy quotes Martin Niemoller's "During the Nazi era in Germany, I didn't speak up when they came for the communists, because I wasn't a communist"

Stewart points out that Hitler never "started out small", going on about the incident that put Hitler in jail, then Mein Kampf's popularity, then the public 1932 shootings by the browncoats of his political opponents, then the massive yearly Nazi gatherings. And so forth.

Stewart basically goes on to talk about how Christian conservatives claiming religious prosection here cheapens actual religious prosection that happens in egypt and china and elsewhere in the world today. He finishes with "You've confused a war on your religion with not always getting everything you want."

Also I guess this should be in the abortion thread, huh.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on February 17, 2012, 12:40:47 PM
FWIW: Daily Show is ALWAYS blocked outside the US.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on February 17, 2012, 01:13:55 PM
Technically, we can watch it on the Comdy Network's website, but the episodes are like a week behind.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Dooly on February 17, 2012, 09:32:55 PM
The Comedy Network website has a pretty terrible interface, but the clip is here (http://watch.thecomedynetwork.ca/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart/headlines/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart---february-2012/#clip620510).
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Disposable Ninja on February 19, 2012, 10:05:03 AM
Something I just want to get off my back real quick:

It's completely unacceptable for the Government to force Church-run businesses to provide healthcare for its religiously unaffiliated employees that would go against the employer's beliefs.

BUT it's totally acceptable for the Government to draft laws and amendments explicitly outlining who Churches can marry, literally forcing people to adhere to a specific type of religious observation.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Ted Belmont on February 19, 2012, 02:50:21 PM
Well, they both involve allowing people to force their religious beliefs on others, so in that respect, at least they're consistent.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on February 20, 2012, 06:52:26 AM
It's completely unacceptable for the Government to force Church-run businesses to provide healthcare for its religiously unaffiliated employees that would go against the employer's beliefs.

And of course Stewart already covered the obvious slippery slope in this reasoning: what about religions that don't believe in vaccinations?  What about Christian Scientists?

(Usual disclaimer: I'm not generally much for slippery slopes, but constitutional law is a place where it is absolutely acceptable to examine them and their legal implications.)

BUT it's totally acceptable for the Government to draft laws and amendments explicitly outlining who Churches can marry, literally forcing people to adhere to a specific type of religious observation.

Strictly speaking even THAT'S not a straight analogy -- because as you note, it's not churches who are being "forced" to supply birth control, it's church-owned businesses.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Bal on February 20, 2012, 09:11:25 AM
Churches are businesses, and shouldn't be treated any differently. Now, they should still be able to apply for not-for-profit status, but they shouldn't get it just because what they're selling is God.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on February 22, 2012, 11:44:47 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/1iiwY.jpg)

 :slow:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Disposable Ninja on February 22, 2012, 11:47:11 AM
YOU DON'T FUCKING SAY
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on February 22, 2012, 11:50:08 AM
Really?  All I saw in the trailer was a couple of pop stars and some half-baked slapstick.  I thought they'd boiled the message right the hell out of it.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Zach on February 23, 2012, 01:06:12 AM
Truffula Tree Certified - Mazda CX-5 and Dr. Seuss' The Lorax (Extended Version) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrvg33vkdFI#ws)

I do not believe that the Trufella Tree Seal of Approval is an award that is given to cars.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on February 23, 2012, 01:05:20 PM
Can you tell the difference between Santorum quotes and Megadeth lyrics? (http://motherjones.com/media/2012/02/rick-santorum-heavy-metal-megadeth-quiz)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on March 02, 2012, 01:56:30 PM
This week's Senate vote shows the Senate Republicans are completely fucking onboard with the birth control insanity.  That will cost them in November.

Also Rush Limbaugh is seeing how far he can push this thing.  I am hoping for a repeat of 2006 where he decided it would be a good idea to mock a well-liked actor with a debilitating disease and gave the Senate to the Democrats.



EDIT TO ADD: Not providing a link because I'm sick of seeing his smirking face at the top of my Google News page as it is.  For anyone who doesn't know what he said, you can either punch up any news site or just make an educated guess.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on March 02, 2012, 02:01:57 PM
Boehner trying to do damage control is just... I don't know if it's entertaining or sad.  Honestly I'm waiting for that guy to snap and switch parties out of sheer frustration.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on March 02, 2012, 02:03:42 PM
Haven't seen it but I assume it's standard "Oh fuck Limbaugh said something awful but you can't criticize Limbaugh and still be a Republican" trouble.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on March 02, 2012, 02:23:42 PM
No, he strongly divorces the GOP establishment from the tone of Limbaugh's comments.  Not the message per se, just the tone.

I haven't checked the reaction of those under him but I wouldn't be too surprised if they were... somewhat less critical of such remarks.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on March 06, 2012, 03:47:22 PM
Continuing the growing trend of comedy outlets serving as better news sources and editorialists than most conventional news sources, Cracked has a straight-as-hell article on Six things rich peopel need to stop saying (http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-things-rich-people-need-to-stop-saying/).

Nothing earth-shattering, but man, it's nuts when you think it take some place like Cracked to put a plain-spoken comprehensive rebuttal together.

Court jesters serving their purpose, I suppose.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Disposable Ninja on March 06, 2012, 04:45:53 PM
... they're making a movie about John Dies At The End?

Holy shit that's awesome.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Cthulhu-chan on March 07, 2012, 12:15:21 AM
It's pretty much made, at this point.  Showing at one of those film festivals, first.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on March 07, 2012, 07:32:46 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/vsNaD.jpg)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on March 12, 2012, 08:33:00 AM
http://thinkprogress.org/media/2012/03/10/442048/breaking-98-major-advertisers-dump-rush-limbaugh/ (http://thinkprogress.org/media/2012/03/10/442048/breaking-98-major-advertisers-dump-rush-limbaugh/)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on March 12, 2012, 09:05:17 AM
Evanier (http://www.newsfromme.com/2012/03/08/todays-rush-discussion/):

Quote
I keep reading articles and blog posts about whether the current controversy will “destroy Rush Limbaugh.” In terms of knocking him off the air, never. His show simply makes too much money and the folks who make it with him (syndicators, local stations, etc.) will continue to profit. Even if at some point he hit an unprofitable period — which he won’t — he could knock down his salary a few million a year and the others who’ve made so much off him could and would bide their time and wait to see if his audience returns. As yet, there’s no evidence it’s going away at all.

[...]

It is a bit of a fib to say that 40+ of his advertisers have deserted him. If you look at the list, what you see is that a lot of companies that buy ad packages on stations that carry Rush have asked that their commercials not be placed in or around his show, at least until the current flap blows over. Most of those firms did not make a deliberate attempt in the first place to “sponsor Rush Limbaugh.” Some profess not to have even known their spots were airing during his program in some markets and that’s not at all impossible.

Limbaugh has done damage of some indeterminate amount to his political movement in that he’s furthered the notion that Republicans and Conservatives are hostile to women — especially women who dare to be unmarried, outspoken and/or sexually-active. If this keeps up, one of these days some prominent Republican candidate is going to have to pull a “Sister Souljah” maneuver and deliver some kind of smackdown that says, in effect, Rush ain’t running this party and he ain’t setting the agenda and he ain’t always helping us by alienating swing voters we think we can reach. But I don’t see that happening soon.

What does seem likely now is that a lot of advertisers will opt to avoid controversial shows. There will always be someone who wants to buy ad time on Rush’s broadcasts. It may not be AOL or other mainstream companies. It may more likely be more companies that want to sell you overpriced gold or equipment to enable you to survive the inevitable nuclear holocaust next month…the kind Glenn Beck was reduced to in his waning days on Fox. But there’ll be someone.

I agree with him that this isn't going to kill Rush's show, but it WILL have a ripple effect -- Rush can weather this storm, but I'm not so sure about smalltimers like, say, my own former Congressman JD Hayworth.  Advertisers who are seeking to avoid controversy won't just be pulling out of Rush's show, they'll be avoiding right-wing talk radio in general, and if that results in somebody down the chain losing their job, well, that's the free market, dudes.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Sharkey on March 12, 2012, 01:27:10 PM
"Oh, we'll still pay you. Just don't run our ads for that one particular show. At least for a few days."

That's not sending a message to the producers of the show or stations that run it. That's publicly dodging potential criticism while actually changing fuckall about your behavior. Which is probably the point and seems to work pretty well.

Meanwhile, if your weird personal definition of "boycott" happens to be "I will continue to give an equal or very slightly smaller amount of money to the producers of these goods/services for a brief window of time while telling everyone about my boycott," I might just be justified in thinking you're either illiterate, a shithead, or a master manipulator. Or some combination of the three.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on March 12, 2012, 05:58:28 PM
Whether we give two shits if Bill Maher* tumbles off the air or not really depends on whether you believe they really have an ugly influence over the establishment, or they simply bring the ugliness in the establishment to public consciousness.  In the former case, yes, they should all fag off and let political discourse stay between politicans and not between politicans and shock jocks.  In the latter case, they absolutely need to keep doing what they're doing, and let the angry (and often profitable) reactions roll in and take effect.

Reality always has to do this complicated thing where the answer is really "both" of course, in which case our ideal situation is one in which the pundits are both dead and not dead.  Of course any armchair physicist will happily tell you that the easy way to accomplish that is simply not to observe them.

In all seriousness though, I can't believe we've gotten to this point and nobody's taken a step back and looked at the problem here.  Hell, the GOP elite's even pointed right the fuck at the elephant in the living room and they still can't tell it's there.

The elephant is that, when Rush Limbaugh calls somebody a slut, John Boehner has to get up on the podium and make a public apology, and when Bill Maher calls somebody a fat sopping worm-eaten vagina with AIDS that deserves to die and burn in hell for infinite eternities, Barack Obama does not give even a thimbleful of santorum.  Because he is the President of the United States of America and Bill Maher is a guy on HBO.

Rush Limbaugh isn't even a guy on HBO!  He only gets listened to at all because not every car in America is equipped with an MP3 player yet!

So you have to ask yourself how one party has managed to get to this point, where the ranting of a ratings whore over a somewhat antiquated medium has the power to actually force the Speaker of the House to come out and try and avoid embarrassment.  This is where the GOP has gone wrong.  The rest is just fluff and aftereffects.

I'll let you in on a little secret.

I'm actually pretty conservative.

That's why I follow the party that doesn't seem to be taking all of its moral guidance from a disk jockey.


* Or whatever fucking cunt has called somebody a cunt today.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Sharkey on March 12, 2012, 09:38:22 PM

I'll let you in on a little secret.

I'm actually pretty conservative.


:pop:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on March 13, 2012, 04:43:11 AM
I'm conservative as fuck, but never in my life have I been offered a decent Conservative Party candidate to vote for. I have never in fact VOTED for a Conservative candidate.

But in Canada there's a little secret too: Both our major parties are actually conservative.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on March 13, 2012, 07:28:50 AM
I was complaining about "conservative" and "liberal" in American politics having nothing to do with their actual traditional definitions before I ever cracked an Orwell book.  The false notion that there's a huge gulf between "the right" and "the left" is how they manage to cling to power.  (In reality, they're more like "the right" and "the center-right", with a few center-left in there and I guess Bernie Sanders off to the actual left somewhere.  Inasmuch as a single axis can accurately reflect the complexity of political thought, which...well, it can't in real life but it's probably pretty close as far as American electoral politics are concerned, more's the pity.)

My favorite linguistic example of how fucked our political language has become is that the people we call "conservatives" are generally the people who are opposed to conservation.  Never mind that things like wars of choice and eliminating all federal government funding for anything except wars of choice are pretty fucking radical ideas and not traditionally conservative in the least.

But yes, to the point of the fundamental difference between Limbaugh and Maher: you've nailed it.  Democrats are not afraid of Bill Maher.  I don't think it's quite accurate to say that Rush is running the Republican Party or that it's taking its cues from him (though you could easily make that argument for, say, Norquist), but he DOES have the power to seriously fucking inconvenience any Republican who criticizes him.

This is part of the same usual stuff we gripe about, I think: the liberal base is less monolithic, and votes in smaller numbers, than the conservative (granting our caveats about how fucking inappropriate those words actually are).  Fewer people listen to Bill Maher than Rush Limbaugh, and of those not that damn many are going to vote based on what Bill Maher says.  (And indeed even Bill Maher's fans probably have an easier time criticizing him than Rush's fans have criticizing him.  I liked Religulous and I like a lot of what Maher has to say, I think he usually has pretty good guests and often has good debate topics.  But I also think the guy's an ass, and a misogynist besides, and that that's why he's backing Rush up in this case, because the one topic that unites the two of them is that they both like saying terrible things about women.)

(Also, Maher's fans KNOW he's a comedian.)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on March 13, 2012, 07:43:52 AM
I was complaining about "conservative" and "liberal" in American politics having nothing to do with their actual traditional definitions before I ever cracked an Orwell book.  The false notion that there's a huge gulf between "the right" and "the left" is how they manage to cling to power.

Basically, yeah. You'll note that the capitalization in my previous post was very deliberate.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on March 15, 2012, 02:57:00 PM
So the new Democratic strategy is to feed the GOP a bunch of poison pills that really aren't very poisonous at all.  I never like naked politicking - and whether you support the Violence Against Women Act (a poorly thought out title from several angles) or not, you have to agree that, given the nation's current priorities, this is naked politicking - but there's something completely wrong with the GOP ideology that the Dems were ever allowed to do this in the first place.

Here's how broken the GOP agenda is:

The conservative base protests the law on two main grounds: that it allows immigrant victims of domestic abuse to obtain temporary visas so that they can claim protection and legal action against their spouses and partners, and it allows homosexuals to claim protection and legal action against their spouses and partners.

What these two groups have in common is that they all, presumably, have foreign and/or homosexual spouses or partners who are verbally, physically or sexually assaulting them on a regular basis.

So... so you don't want to maybe take care of that?

Because the thing about these violent, sadistic, and probably perverted ferr-in and fagg-it people is that they're in your country, interacting with your wo/mans.  Actually, provably violent immigrants and homosexuals are wandering around out there, working your jobs, talking to your children, and looking over your fine ass every day. 

Isn't that why you hate these minorities so much?  Because they're criminal and scary?  Why don't you want to back a law that puts pressure on the criminal and scary ones?

Is your ideology so fucking warped at this point that you will risk your political career to protect the most evil members of certain groups, just to punish the innocent ones?

Did it ever occur to you that an battered immigrant may wish to return immediately to his or her own country, or that the only thing keeping a homosexual in a relationship you despise so much is fear?

No?  Okay then.

I guess there's nothing left to say other than see you in November.  Oh, and don't be too upset if Enrique ever corners you at knifepoint and demands you bend over.  I guarantee you had his vote.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on March 29, 2012, 10:19:33 AM
http://www.esquire.com/features/young-people-in-the-recession-0412 (http://www.esquire.com/features/young-people-in-the-recession-0412)

Hey, thanks a lot, old people!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on March 29, 2012, 11:38:47 AM
Thirty years in the making, this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. 

Could be worse though. We could be Europeans.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on March 29, 2012, 11:45:36 AM
I found the infographics offensive.
It tries, and succeeds, at making the case that young people today are in fact propping up older people and that the kinds of opportunities once available to fresh baby boomers doesn't exist for new entrants to the workforce.
What it doesn't try to do, and therefore doesn't quite succeed, is explain that this isn't just a matter of the young failing to "pay their dues" as entrance to "the good life". It did satisfactorily rebut every other old person's complaint about young people. Not related to their rock and rolls or pokeymans.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on March 29, 2012, 01:30:05 PM
Kind of amusing timing, what with the GOP House passing a Medicare  "reform" that basically boils down to "give everyone under 55 a chance to get the fuck out of the program while the getting's good".
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on April 13, 2012, 12:49:29 PM
http://www.wmctv.com/story/17353757/bill-would-define-holding-hands-kissing-as-gateway-sexual-activity (http://www.wmctv.com/story/17353757/bill-would-define-holding-hands-kissing-as-gateway-sexual-activity)

OH COME ON
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Doom on April 14, 2012, 12:25:48 PM
THE SOUTH, Y'ALL
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Shinra on April 14, 2012, 01:45:05 PM
look, the only time a boy should hold the hands of a girl is to help her get a lynch around a negro's neck

Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on April 14, 2012, 04:13:28 PM
So basically the idea is to work towards a point where the only permitted form of intercourse in The South is rape?

Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Disposable Ninja on April 14, 2012, 04:40:27 PM
Squealing like a pig is how you say 'Hello' south of the Mason Dixon.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: JDigital on April 15, 2012, 03:34:54 AM
But guys will still be able to LOOK at girls. How about we make them wear some kind of face-covering veil?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on May 10, 2012, 10:55:29 AM
How to win a culture war and lose a generation (http://rachelheldevans.com/win-culture-war-lose-generation-amendment-one-north-carolina)

(Pre-Thad Edit: It's an article about how the Christian Church is hemorrhaging twenty/thirtysomethings in order to maintain an anti-LGBT position)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on May 10, 2012, 04:38:11 PM
http://www.esquire.com/features/young-people-in-the-recession-0412 (http://www.esquire.com/features/young-people-in-the-recession-0412)

Hey, thanks a lot, old people!

Wanted to take a moment to pick up on this piece, because it's pretty much just trying to get young people to support austerity. The crux of the article is not "Look how good the old have it, let's all aspire to that", it's "Look how good the old have it, let's tear that motherfucker down", which is a shitty thing to do.

Try not to get sucked into the politics of envy. It's possible for us to all have it nice, and blaming septuagenarians with pensions won't get us anyway. And really, which seems like they're a greater strain on the economy: 70-year-olds picking up $700 checks each month that they paid into their whole lives, or the 400 or so guys each hoarding over a billion dollars that they hire cops to keep away from the rest of us?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on May 10, 2012, 05:44:25 PM
...I think you quoted the wrong post there.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on May 10, 2012, 06:01:43 PM
I did indeed. I'm going to blame Buge for just posting a link and single line comment, twice.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on May 10, 2012, 06:23:05 PM
In fairness, that link does state the contents right in the URL.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on May 10, 2012, 07:55:32 PM
Quote
(The next most common negative images? : “judgmental,” “hypocritical,” and “too involved in politics.”)

A little disturbed that more people are pissed off that the church is mean to gay people than they are that the church is mean, period.  It almost feels like, okay, sure, it's hip to be queer now, but that just means we're going to flit on over to beating up somebody else we find different somehow.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on May 10, 2012, 08:13:14 PM
The kind of people who want the church to change is the same kind of people who believe that the church won't undo steps in the right direction.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on May 10, 2012, 09:07:07 PM
A little disturbed that more people are pissed off that the church is mean to gay people than they are that the church is mean, period.  It almost feels like, okay, sure, it's hip to be queer now, but that just means we're going to flit on over to beating up somebody else we find different somehow.

Weeeell, one way of looking at it is just that when you look at bigotry within American Christianity, it IS currently laser-focused more on gay people than anyone else.

But on a macro level, I'm afraid you're right.  Most of the people currently opposed to gay marriage wouldn't dream of opposing interracial marriage.  The judgemental types just keep finding some new group that it's socially acceptable to discriminate against.

(This, incidentally, is why it's even more infuriating when Obama plays the "states' rights" card than when a run-of-the-mill bigot does it.  He is literally using the exact argument that people used to try to deny HIS parents the right to marry.)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on May 10, 2012, 09:15:56 PM
(This, incidentally, is why it's even more infuriating when Obama plays the "states' rights" card than when a run-of-the-mill bigot does it.  He is literally using the exact argument that people used to try to deny HIS parents the right to marry.)

I'm glad somebody else thought this was :scanners:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on May 11, 2012, 05:01:32 AM
...but that just means we're going to flit on over to beating up somebody else we find different somehow.

Like the Girl Scouts (http://www.csmonitor.com/The-Culture/Family/2012/0511/Girl-Scouts-under-scrutiny-from-Catholic-bishops)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on May 11, 2012, 07:29:56 AM
What are they going to do, excommunicate the fucking GSA?  Okay, have fun with that.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on May 11, 2012, 08:00:40 AM
Is there an organization they could beat up on that would make them seem even MORE like cartoon villains? Because I'm drawing a blank here.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on May 11, 2012, 08:11:33 AM
The ASPCA, maybe?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on May 11, 2012, 09:19:44 AM
I'd say "saveably ill and/or domestically abused children", but the House budget seems to have those two covered.  The Church is really lagging in the fucked-up priorities arms race.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on July 03, 2012, 11:45:28 AM
So uh in accordance with Poe's Law I'm wondering whether this Texas Republican Party Platform (http://s3.amazonaws.com/texasgop_pre/assets/original/2012-Platform-Final.pdf) is an elaborate joke.

Quote
We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student's fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority.

Critical thinking?!  That's fucking crazy.  Here's what our students SHOULD be getting:

Quote
We recommend that local school boards and classroom teachers be given more authority to deal with disciplinary problems.  Corporal punishment is effective and legal in Texas.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on July 03, 2012, 12:06:33 PM
Am I to understand that they do not believe in undermining the parental authority of Muslim mothers and fathers?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on July 03, 2012, 12:11:51 PM
Am I to understand that they do not believe in undermining the parental authority of Muslim mothers and fathers?

:scanners:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on July 03, 2012, 12:34:24 PM
Wow, as melon-scratchers go, that's a honey-doodle.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Doom on July 03, 2012, 01:15:31 PM
So uh in accordance with Poe's Law I'm wondering whether this Texas Republican Party Platform (http://s3.amazonaws.com/texasgop_pre/assets/original/2012-Platform-Final.pdf) is an elaborate joke.

Quote
We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student's fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority.

Critical thinking?!  That's fucking crazy.  Here's what our students SHOULD be getting:

Quote
We recommend that local school boards and classroom teachers be given more authority to deal with disciplinary problems.  Corporal punishment is effective and legal in Texas.

The GOP would love it if they could make more of the general population as dumb and malleable as say, Ditto-Heads. Pretty legit without even having to bump shoulders with "Those In Power" conspiracy theories. It's just a natural condition for their policies becoming so toxic.

Imagine the voting bloc it would take to make a Santorum presidency. Now imagine how badly the Right is going to overreact if Mitt loses as the "guy who isn't extreme" and who they'll nominate in 2016!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on July 03, 2012, 03:48:54 PM
Am I to understand that they do not believe in undermining the parental authority of Muslim mothers and fathers?

>Implying there are muslims in Texas
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Bal on July 03, 2012, 04:04:30 PM
That bit about discouraging critical thinking had me grinding my teeth so hard I bled.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Rico on July 03, 2012, 08:53:54 PM
you're so white you should vote Republican anyway.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on July 03, 2012, 08:59:54 PM
That bit about discouraging critical thinking had me grinding my teeth so hard I bled.

I hear they've edited that out since they started getting attention for it.

Because obviously if you remove the phrase "critical thinking" then the rest of the document is totally not embarrassing at all.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Bal on July 04, 2012, 01:20:08 AM
you're so white you should vote Republican anyway.

It's a defense technique. I blind assailants in the sun and then run off.

That bit about discouraging critical thinking had me grinding my teeth so hard I bled.

I hear they've edited that out since they started getting attention for it.

Because obviously if you remove the phrase "critical thinking" then the rest of the document is totally not embarrassing at all.

Yeah, the overall promotion of stupidity still shines through.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on July 04, 2012, 01:54:10 AM
Yeah but now they're talking about a bunch of acronyms nobody on either side have ever heard of but I guess it's something scary that liberals are doing to brainwash people.

Or... remove people's existing brainwashing.  They're still pretty clear on this "parental authority" point, which still kind of hurts my head since, you know, my parents taught me critical thinking mostly.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Bal on July 04, 2012, 02:21:47 AM
"Parental authority" is code for "Give parents every opportunity to brainwash children beyond repair".
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on July 04, 2012, 02:50:52 AM
As an aside, or maybe not, there's been something that's been bothering since the last time I made the mistake of trying to talk to evangelists.  One of them said to me something along the lines of "Without God, you're going to turn around and start robbing banks!"

I told him of course there was more of a sliding scale between total piety and a life of crime and he just went wide-eyed and went, "Not to me there isn't!"

It seemed like just a line from a God-freak at the time but the idea's been gnawing at me ever since then.  Was that guy actually incapable of differentiating right from wrong by himself?

We know psychopathy exists and we know it's not a binary state; everyone's got a certain amount of compassion for their fellow man.  I'm not Jeffrey Dahmer but I'm probably not Andy Griffith either.  It's hard to say where the "average" for the typical human being lies, but looking at the history of societies rather than individuals, it's probably not high.

Morality is a very hard thing.  It takes a certain amount of intelligence and a certain amount of heart to parse through all the situations, laws, social precepts and golden concepts every minute of every day.  We know that We here are exceptional people.  I'm pretty goddam sure that even the worst of you are far above the norm in terms of honesty and rationality.  An as Exceptional People we tend not to spend a lot of time with Unexceptional People if we can help it.  It's not out of any sense of stuck-up superiority (well, in the forums' case it is, but not in general), it's because we simply can't fucking relate to most people.  How do you even start to understand a human being who can't or won't function without a seen or unseen master?

This is a bit of a rambling thought but I'll try to drive it home to a couple of points here.

We here consider critical thinking to be an ideal to strive for, but a lot of people don't - they don't want the responsibility of doing it, or the accountability of explaining their thoughts.  We value independence, but a lot of people don't - they want to be cared for and told what to do.  We value the right to make our own decisions and take responsibility for them, but a lot of people don't.  They don't trust themselves to do so, whether they really should or shouldn't.

I'm not talking about the people who actually wrote this stuff of course.  We know who they are - people with very high intelligence and very low compassion, who've learned how to to manipulate the Regular Joes of the world who yearn to follow a leader, any leader, as long as it claims some sort of acceptable authority.  Fuck these people, basically.  I'm not concerned with them right now.

Who I am concerned about are the Joes, the people we sometimes make the mistake of despising for being so apparently bitter and hateful but who are really in a very awkward position in this country.  Ask a random person what Freedom means and you're likely to get a very strange answer.  It's personal to everybody, to be sure, but often you'll hear stuff that doesn't even approach any sort of common definition of the term.  It's because everybody here knows that Freedom is something good, but to many, what we call freedom is actually something of a personal nightmare.  They didn't ask for this.  They didn't choose to take on the responsibilities that come with rights, they were born right into it!

Sometimes you have to take a step back for a second and think about what it really must be like to be a True Neutral farmer from Iowa with an IQ of 100.

...ehhh.

But, that guy deserves his own Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness too, even if he doesn't necessarily want all of it.  Do we foist him into this glorious new age of critical thinking, personal ethics, self-reliance and responsibility or do we let him stay comfortably wrapped up in whatever social dressing keeps him happy and productive?

Sometimes you wanna kick these peoples' asses, and it's usually when they start coming over to you and telling you that you should live in their own derpy THIS GUY IS RIGHT way, but the goal here is really to make sure they're all happy in their own way without being ABLE to come over here try to make us live in their own derpy way.  And then kick the asses of the backstabbing dirtbags who keep pulling their strings, because we're the good guys, damn it.

So yeah.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Friday on July 04, 2012, 05:11:03 AM
What you're saying isn't wrong, but average 100 IQ people can be taught to think critically. Attacking the people pulling their strings is all fine and good, but as long as people exist to be manipulated, people will come along and manipulate them.

The problem is so many people are indoctrinated at such an early age by people they are hardwired to trust (their parents) that even if they have above average IQs or are otherwise capable of thinking critically they still end up believing in a 6000 year old earth. I'm not singling out Christian indoctrination here specifically, it's just I have a friend who basically fits that description exactly. There's no way she'd believe in a 6000 year old earth if someone introduced the concept to her at age 13, but because it was drilled into her brain starting at age 2, with sunday school and homeschool and teachers and parents and friends all repeating the same thing over and over and over, she now exists as a very smart young earth creationist who does not believe in evolution.

Eh. I'm sort of rambling here. Let's just say that the topic Brentai brings up is something I've given a lot of thought.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on July 04, 2012, 05:53:45 AM
Yeah, there's a litany of historical figures who were very smart and extremely-well-intentioned who used their smarts to help justify and perpetuate whichever church they believed in. Generally nobody being fair is going to call say, Francis of Assisi or John Paul II stupid, or a sociopath out to manipulate people, even if they're no fan of the Catholic Church. 

If people are doing harm to others intentionally, it tends to be grounded in sociopathy with little regard to intelligence. If they're doing harm unintentionally, that's when it tends to be more of a function of closed-mindedness or raw stupidity (though sociopathy can still play a part). 

Of course that's all complicated by the fact sociopathy can be mitigated by training or properly-applied intellect, and worsened by ignorance.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on July 04, 2012, 08:12:04 AM
Brent, you're only a few, critical steps from slipping into the territory of the "smart man's burden," dood.

Especially when being smart or empathetic doesn't seem to limit the belief in crazy stuff. Even people who are good at critical thinking have opinions that they're unwilling or unable to examine rationally. See Friday's post.


That said...
I told him of course there was more of a sliding scale between total piety and a life of crime and he just went, "Not to me there isn't!"
Was that guy actually incapable of differentiating right from wrong by himself?
This has actually kept me up at night.

EDIT:
To make clear who I was commenting toward.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on July 04, 2012, 08:39:13 AM
Oh well, not to worry about that. I don't think "Smart" is some kind of cure-all panacea at all. I am actually agreeing with Friday's point. My examples are of very intelligent, caring people who nonetheless blindly perpetuated an institution that has done both enormous good and enormous harm.  Hell, the thought required to maintain the complex rationalizations behind a lot of sociopathic constructs (say, slavery post-1750) often require a high level of intelligence to build. You don't need to tell me that intelligence can cut both ways.

What I was getting at was the that if you know full well you are doing harm and still choose to do so*, then that almost always means a deficiency in empathy (i.e. some degree of sociopathy). That's probably a minority of cases. In most cases harm is done simply through ignorance, wilful or otherwise.

Of course, Hanlon's Razor says virtually the same thing and does so much more succintly than me.

*Barring no-win corner cases, like a commander ordering soldiers to sacrifice themseves to preserve the army as a whole during a war. Every situation has some kind of exception, blah blah blah.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on July 04, 2012, 08:46:13 AM
ER, that was actually directed at Brentai. Your comments I don't really have too much experience with, because I prefer to imagine external forces as the plan of an ambiguously malign and impossibly capable cabal.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on July 04, 2012, 08:47:10 AM
Oh okay, carry on then.

P.S. The devil's pulling them banjo strings.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on July 04, 2012, 10:09:46 AM
I told him of course there was more of a sliding scale between total piety and a life of crime and he just went wide-eyed and went, "Not to me there isn't!"[

It seemed like just a line from a God-freak at the time but the idea's been gnawing at me ever since then.  Was that guy actually incapable of differentiating right from wrong by himself?

What's interesting to me is that this is also essentially the justification for "Being gay is a choice" reasoning.  I mean, are you CHOOSING to be straight?  Because I sure as hell didn't.

We here consider critical thinking to be an ideal to strive for, but a lot of people don't - they don't want the responsibility of doing it, or the accountability of explaining their thoughts.  We value independence, but a lot of people don't - they want to be cared for and told what to do.  We value the right to make our own decisions and take responsibility for them, but a lot of people don't.  They don't trust themselves to do so, whether they really should or shouldn't.

[...]

Ask a random person what Freedom means and you're likely to get a very strange answer.  It's personal to everybody, to be sure, but often you'll hear stuff that doesn't even approach any sort of common definition of the term.  It's because everybody here knows that Freedom is something good, but to many, what we call freedom is actually something of a personal nightmare.  They didn't ask for this.  They didn't choose to take on the responsibilities that come with rights, they were born right into it!

Oh sure.  The religious right is propped up by people who want to be told what to think, what to believe, what to fear.  (Not JUST the religious right, obviously; you'll find plenty of dogmatic parrots on all sides of any issue.)

There was a reddit interview recently with Fred Phelps's son (http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/v99eg/iaman_exmember_of_the_westboro_baptist_church/) who left Crazytown as soon as he turned 18.  Here's a bit that jumped out at me (or at the guy who quoted it on Boing Boing, I forget):

Quote
Yes, there is a tremendous amount of selective quoting. But this is lost on them because they never really were taught to examine the Bible and decide for themselves. They were taught to believe what he believes. This leaves them wholly unable to truly debate anyone. They recognize certain sounds and respond to those sounds with the sounds they learned. They don't critically analyze the incoming sounds at all.

One of those sounds they recognize is "why do you preach if you don't think people can be saved" to which they respond with the sound "it's not our job to save, only to preach". It's what I call the divine Nuremberg defense.

That's pretty much it -- Westboro is an extreme example, obviously, but fundamentalists of any type are essentially trained as dumb database-retrieval machines.  Give them a key and they'll spit out a value, but that's as much processing as they're willing to do.

And often they are wonderful people.  I've spoken of my grandmother now and again; she's the sweetest lady you'll ever meet but my God does she have some strange ideas.  (And by "have" I mean "possess", not "produce".)  The other day at dinner when a commercial got loud I said something as innocuous as "Congress is making them lower the volume of commercials.  At least they agree on SOMETHING."  And the next thing I knew she was talking about aborting babies based on their sex, and when I said I don't think that has ever actually happened in the United States she started in on how states are passing Sharia Law now.  (She pronounced the "i" like "eye".)  I started to explain that in this conversation the position consistent with Sharia Law would actually be the one that increases restrictions on abortions, but I managed to steer it back to "Hey, this is some good spaghetti right here."

Sometimes you have to take a step back for a second and think about what it really must be like to be a True Neutral farmer from Iowa with an IQ of 100.

Funny you mention farms in Iowa.  Because she was born on one.

But, that guy deserves his own Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness too, even if he doesn't necessarily want all of it.  Do we foist him into this glorious new age of critical thinking, personal ethics, self-reliance and responsibility or do we let him stay comfortably wrapped up in whatever social dressing keeps him happy and productive?

I'm pretty happy with the "Let him believe whatever he wants as long as he doesn't try to force it on everybody else" school.

Unfortunately, evangelicals really aren't big on the whole live-and-let-live thing.

Sometimes you wanna kick these peoples' asses, and it's usually when they start coming over to you and telling you that you should live in their own derpy THIS GUY IS RIGHT way, but the goal here is really to make sure they're all happy in their own way without being ABLE to come over here try to make us live in their own derpy way.  And then kick the asses of the backstabbing dirtbags who keep pulling their strings, because we're the good guys, damn it.

So yeah.

There's an extent to which I'll buy that.  But I'm still pretty big on the "Try and teach them critical thinking in schools" idea because it's the best inoculation AGAINST being a puppet.

Plus, people who go around talking about personal responsibility should really be able to take personal responsibility for the shit they're saying.

And back to something you said earlier about us not generally hanging out with people that diametrically different to us: this is probably the single biggest reason I am, and remain, a supporter of public education despite its flaws.

My other grandmother, a public educator herself, once said something to me: "We could have sent you to private school if we'd wanted to.  You'd have probably learned more.  But I just couldn't stomach the idea of sending you to the same school Symington (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fife_Symington)'s kids were going to."

I believe there's something inherently positive about places that force you to interact with people who are from different backgrounds and have different beliefs.  Public school is probably the biggest and best example I can think of.  Public university is another good one -- I'm sure I've mentioned my former roommate, a guy who chose college instead of a Mormon mission and slowly moved away from the church and its way of thinking as we helped him expand his horizons.  (BTW he'd been homeschooled after his folks pulled him from public school out of concern that he was being taught too much multiculturalism.)

And of course once we're done with school there's work, where you're pretty likely to have SOME people you generally get along with but don't agree with.  Unless you're working for the ACLU or some other self-selecting organization, I guess.  (And even there I'd be the guy disagreeing with the bosses' "money = speech" policy.)

The problem is so many people are indoctrinated at such an early age by people they are hardwired to trust (their parents) that even if they have above average IQs or are otherwise capable of thinking critically they still end up believing in a 6000 year old earth.

And -- not speaking to your friend specifically, of course, but in general -- the most insidious form of indoctrination is punishing people for asking questions.  The thing I linked actually pushed corporal punishment in schools, a pretty serious fucking Neanderthal idea (from people who don't believe in Neanderthals). 

There are precious few cases where I think it's acceptable to punish someone for asking questions, and all of them involve some sort of immediate danger that precludes having a discussion RIGHT NOW.  (Or preparation for same, I suppose, as in military drills, but that gets us off on a rather different tack and a whole other ethical/pragmatic debate.)

There's that bit in Religulous where Maher asks somebody "If you'd been taught fairy tales were fact and the Bible was a fairy tale, would you know the difference?"  Obviously that's a hypothetical (and just going to piss somebody off if you ask him that), but it's a pretty good comparison.

I had a friend once, raised by atheist British parents, who told me that they never explained the religious background of Christmas to her, that it was just a tree and presents.  (I don't think they even gave much more than lip service to Santa Claus; she said she didn't remember ever believing he was real.)  She said that, in kindergarten, when a friend explained the Story of Christmas to her, she responded by laughing and telling her "I can't believe you believe that."  This, as you might expect, cost her a friend.

Funnily enough, last I heard out of her she was pretty big into the whole church thing.  She doesn't actually believe any of that stuff literally (and indeed it takes very little effort to get her to start talking about all the pernicious ignorance in the Bible and the same as practiced by the religious right) but it appeals to her because of a sense of ritual and community.

Which brings us to another point: church and religion have a real appeal, a real sense of comfort and belonging.  That's why people are more inclined to believe what they're taught there (or by their parents, or by a good teacher, or what-have-you).  Stepping outside that comfort zone is, well, uncomfortable.

That's a very long post.

Well, I'll leave you with this, from Douglas Adams:

Quote
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on July 04, 2012, 10:50:46 AM
And the next thing I knew she was talking about aborting babies based on their sex, and when I said I don't think that has ever actually happened in the United States she started in on how states are passing Sharia Law now.

She was probably trying to refer to the Sex-Selective Abortion Ban (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/01/us/politics/house-rejects-bill-to-ban-sex-selective-abortions.html), a.k.a. Why We Need a Balance Against Intentionally Broken Bills for Stuff Everybody Actually Wants.  Thanks to this kindergarten bullshit we still have fucking hate crime abortions, whee.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on July 04, 2012, 01:38:25 PM
Well yeah, she was definitely talking about that.  And how she couldn't understand how it didn't pass.

I said it looked an awful lot like a solution in search of a problem to me, a political distraction that sounds good but is stopping something that isn't actually happening.  (In America.  It was quite a problem in China for awhile, of course, though I hear that's starting to settle down.)

Hate crime abortions?  Are those things that happen?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on July 05, 2012, 05:32:33 PM
Non-veteran congressperson blasts his opponent in the coming election as "not a true hero" because she has the audacity to mention having lost two legs to an RPG attack (http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/07/03/510443/joe-walsh-tammy-duckworth-service/).

Three guesses as to party alignments.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on July 05, 2012, 06:25:41 PM
Quote
arguing that Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) was reluctant to discuss his own military service in 2008

...
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on July 05, 2012, 07:44:50 PM
Quote
Our thoughts and prayers will always be with her for her service and her loss but these are serious times and the people of Illinois deserve to know what she thinks about real issues and what she will do as a Congresswoman.

Tammy Duckworth's jobs plan. (http://www.tammyduckworth.com/jobsplan/)
Tammy Duckworth's greater economic plan. (http://www.tammyduckworth.com/jobseconomy/)
Joe Walsh's economic plan. (http://walshforcongress.com/issues/economy)  (It's the third sentence in the last paragraph.)

Anybody who votes for Joe Walsh is basically admitting that they are illiterate (or at least unable to use Google.)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on July 05, 2012, 07:51:06 PM
Talking Points Memo has an interview he gave on CNN (http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/07/ashleigh-ashleigh-joe-walsh-digs-in-on-duckworth-flap.php?ref=fpnewsfeed) in which he pretty much straight up confirms that he's a condescending jackwad.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on July 05, 2012, 08:01:17 PM
Joe Walsh's economic plan. (http://walshforcongress.com/issues/economy)  (It's the third sentence in the last paragraph.)

Psh.  Like you need to read all that to know that a Republican's economic plan is "cut taxes".
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on August 01, 2012, 08:30:38 AM
Taking the piss out of libertarianism as 'cool'. (http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/07/connor-kilpatrick-its-hip-its-cool-its-libertarianism.html)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on August 01, 2012, 09:30:40 AM
My only complaints are that it addresses only a third of the really obnoxious young "Republicans" that really need to be told over and over why they don't understand economics and that it doesn't always link to persuasive articles to explain how economics actually works.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on August 01, 2012, 10:07:05 AM
Oh, shit, my friend wrote that article for eXiled. Glad to see it's starting to go viral.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on September 07, 2012, 07:54:03 AM
http://wonkette.com/482695/worlds-worst-woman-and-worlds-richest-woman-are-coincidentally-very-same-person (http://wonkette.com/482695/worlds-worst-woman-and-worlds-richest-woman-are-coincidentally-very-same-person)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on September 07, 2012, 08:02:09 AM
Yeah, saw that on BoingBoing the other week.  Managed to refrain from responding to her "Spend less time drinking" with the first retort that popped into my head.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Ted Belmont on September 07, 2012, 09:19:53 AM
Yeah, POOR PEOPLE, maybe if you spent less time drinking and more time working hard and pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, you too could be born into an incredibly wealthy family.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on September 07, 2012, 10:44:17 AM
I'd eat some cake, lady, but it looks like you already got to all of it.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on September 07, 2012, 10:47:30 AM
Meanwhile the Occupy movement has fucking VANISHED. Even in Quebec where they had massive student protests fairly recently, the movement barely registered during the actual provincial election.

I mean, I know I was pretty damn cynical about them, but I figured there'd at least be a few diehards carrying a torch of some kind.

nope.avi
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on September 27, 2012, 10:21:20 AM
I really am kind of enjoying how right-wingers suddenly support unions now that football scores are involved.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on September 27, 2012, 10:45:49 AM
I almost replied "Conservatives would thow their support behind pedophilia if you got football scores involved" as a joke.

...

Fuck.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Sharkey on September 27, 2012, 02:06:08 PM
That made me actually look for the karma button for the first time in ever, and of course it's gone. Big yellow taxi, etc.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on October 01, 2012, 09:53:08 AM
Gov. Jerry Brown vetoed legislation that would protect domestic workers (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/01/domestic-workers-bill-of-rights-veto_n_1928001.html)

He also vetoed the TRUST act. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/01/trust-act-veto-jerry-brown_n_1928444.html)

Does he have something against immigrants, or what?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on October 01, 2012, 11:27:20 AM
California Uber Alles (Dead Kennedys) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quLqEu4mUOU#)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 01, 2012, 01:05:26 PM
On the plus side, he signed a ban on conversion programs for gay children (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jWBM0Lw5oVIUPScp6o2JNfdoBeyA?docId=CNG.4f566a1bee1ffb2806d0dacbf247b94d.111).
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on October 01, 2012, 02:54:18 PM
Which fills me with mixed feelings; I live in a state where it's illegal to suggest to people that they shouldn't be gay, and where it's ALSO illegal for gay people to get married.  What's the standard here?

Obviously the standard is "whatever is popular at the time"; gay-hating was in 4 years ago, now it's, like, totally out.  Which is good overall, I guess, but this sort of whimsical double-standard is one of the ways this state tends to exemplify the absolute worst traits of a democracy.  The law is completely arbitrary and the budget is prioritized by whoever cries the hardest.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on October 01, 2012, 04:39:13 PM
That's a bit glib, though, isn't it? Jerry Brown wasn't governor in 2008, when prop 8 passed. And prop 8 was a ballot initiative launched as a reaction to a state Supreme Court ruling. It seems like the actual elected officials want some form of civil rights for homosexuals. It just seems the people who elect those officials don't want that? Probably has a lot to do with the rest of the state's resentment of San Fran.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 01, 2012, 07:33:26 PM
I live in a state where it's illegal to suggest to people that they shouldn't be gay

Well, no, not really.  People can suggest it all they want, short of sending them to horrifying re-education camps.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on October 17, 2012, 03:21:42 PM
Rabbi Writes Patronizing Letter To Sarah Silverman, Has His Ass Handed To Him By Her Dad (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/15/rabbi-letter-sarah-silverman_n_1968287.html?utm_hp_ref=tw)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Friday on October 17, 2012, 03:23:40 PM
WARNING

WARNING

OLD MEN
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on October 18, 2012, 03:31:27 PM
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/10/17/conservative-publication-smears-young-woman-who-asked-debate-question/ (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/10/17/conservative-publication-smears-young-woman-who-asked-debate-question/)

Quote
The article, published anonymously, alleged that Katherine Fenton’s Twitter account “reveals that purple Joose is her choice to get blackout drunk and she has a history of getting wet at happy hour.” The article also highlights sexually suggestive messages Fenton allegedly sent from her Twitter account.

The Twitter account cited in the article no longer exists.

Classy.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on December 11, 2012, 06:21:07 AM
I think this is the right thread to post this in...
So, Michigan's republican-dominated state legislature is set to ram right-to-work down our throats today.

It really is odd how a state like Michigan which is so solidly democratic on a federal level is so damn republican locally.  Like most of Michigan's cultural problems, I blame Howell (where the KKK headquarters is, for those who don't remember) and the white Detroit-suburbs.

Good news for school kids at least, as so many teachers are protesting that many school districts don't have school today.

Yeah, they forced it through a lame-duck session and tied a spending thing to it so that it can't be knocked over to a public ballot proposal and subsequently defeated by overwhelming public disapproval.  Sneaky bastards.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Shinra on December 12, 2012, 01:17:15 AM
Oh boy. Well, if the other right to work states are any indication, this probably will fix a lot of unemployment problems in Michigan. It'll also make sure all those people with good jobs don't have good jobs anymore. 11 dollars an hour on the assembly line, here we come! Benefits, shmenefits. It's employment at will, buster.

am I dick for saying that I'd rather see 8% of our country unemployed than see 20-30% or more of our country have shitty jobs?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on December 12, 2012, 03:31:24 AM
No?  The employment metric is one of the biggest "Look over there!"s in our country.  You can pretty easily drop that unemployment number while actually raising the number of people who are living in poverty, and that's pretty much the plan on both sides right now.  :victory:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Bal on December 12, 2012, 06:52:14 AM
I'm glad my bat wielding, steel working, union organizing grandfather isn't alive to see this. He beat the shit out of union breakers so that he could work a hard as balls job and earn enough money to build a house for his family on Grosse Ile, which the family still owns. Of all the fucking states in the union, Michigan goes right to work? How is that ever going to fucking function? Every industry there is dominated by the unions.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on December 12, 2012, 08:10:34 AM
Hasn't Michigan been treading water ever since Roger & Me?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on December 12, 2012, 09:44:17 AM
I'm glad my bat wielding, steel working, union organizing grandfather isn't alive to see this. He beat the shit out of union breakers [...]

Well, at least his spirit was carried on by someone punching a [minor] FOX "news" contributor in the face.

Hasn't Michigan been treading water ever since Roger & Me?

Conservative backlash to the Moore film, or the film's contents (Flint abruptly shifting from moderately prosperous town into one giant meth-lab the only place in Michigan scarier than Detroit*)?

*In Detroit, you don't have to be afraid of buildings, which in Flint may as well be renamed prize boxes; the prize being a sudden explosion and free wooden and glass shrapnel in your soft tissues.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on December 12, 2012, 10:28:01 AM
What I meant was that ever since Detroit was gutted of its primary industry, the whole state's been on life support. Apologies for my improper use of metaphor.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on December 12, 2012, 10:40:10 AM
Let Detroit go bankrupt.  Failing that, make it go bankrupt.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Shinra on December 12, 2012, 10:54:02 AM
I can hope for a repeal but it's never going to fucking happen. Once that cat's let out of the bag, it's out forever. Goodbye, blue collar America. The middle class will miss you dearly.

Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Bal on December 12, 2012, 11:04:31 AM
I really am upset by that, actually. Like I said, my Grandfather worked in a steel mill for like forty years, but because of the union that gave him a living that made him a provider and a home owner for a wife and two kids. Not to say that times weren't still tough now and again, my grandmother also entered the workplace multiple times, but it's still a real loss.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on January 09, 2013, 05:47:04 PM
The old die older and the young die younger. (http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/01/10/health/americans-under-50-fare-poorly-on-health-measures-new-report-says.xml)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on January 09, 2013, 07:20:16 PM
Jesus Christ, that article is brutal.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on January 09, 2013, 10:01:57 PM
http://capitalismis.com (http://capitalismis.com)

AHAHAHAHAHA

THIS SITE

NO REALLY

THIS SITE






Though, for what it's worth, that's one of the more beautifully-designed websites I've ever seen. I mean, it's no Uniqlo, but that's a pretty damn nice design.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Friday on January 09, 2013, 10:08:15 PM
Even the color scheme screams Ayn Rand.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on January 09, 2013, 11:42:07 PM
I apologize to you liberals for implying that the behavior of conveniently redefining words is unique to you.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on January 09, 2013, 11:49:31 PM
At first, I read the URL as being "Capitalismis", and wondered if maybe it was a Christmas alternative.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: François on January 10, 2013, 05:34:23 AM
I love how the quiz repeatedly uses the term "incorrect" when you disagree with it. For all it goes on about individual freedom it sure is keen on telling me I'm not entitled to my own opinions.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on January 10, 2013, 08:35:15 AM
Quote
Should every individual have a right to employment?

Yes

Incorrect. Yikes! If there is a right to have employment, it imposes an obligation for someone else to provide a salaried position. Such tyranny is immoral. According to your answer, your preferred social system is fascism.

Ahh ha ha ha ha.

According to every question in that quiz, I prefer socialism.

Quote
Allegory - You’ve studied and worked hard in class, earning a 99   average, and you’re one of only three students with an A grade. The   other students have not studied as hard and have C grades. Is it okay   then that yours and the other A-student averages get reduced and shared   so that everyone gets a B grade on their records?

I was not allowed to answer "What the fuck does this have to do with economics?" as an answer.


And finally

Quote
As professionals, we have certain   fundamental obligations to society, to   clients, to the profession, and   to our peers and colleagues. Our professional ethics (http://designproacademy.org/code-of-professional-conduct.html)     are an important basis for our practice and these flow directly from     requisite capitalist values, but capitalism is widely misunderstood.     This little site is meant to shed some light on capitalism and perhaps     spark further investigation by others.

Preserved for all time is the majestic, lonely call of the White, Male Nerd.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: JDigital on January 10, 2013, 08:56:57 AM
Meanwhile in Northern Ireland, widespread rioting (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20972438) over Belfast City Council's decision to limit the flying of the British flag from City Hall.

Protestors have started Facebook pages such as this one (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Get-Sinn-Fein-Out-Of-Northern-Ireland/131006660387834), including this post (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=140578789430621&set=a.131016527053514.28390.131006660387834&type=1) glorifying the massacre of thirteen unarmed civilians by the British army during a peaceful protest in 1972.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Bal on January 10, 2013, 09:00:03 AM
You know, I was just thinking, I miss The Troubles.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on January 10, 2013, 10:14:07 AM
I love how the quiz repeatedly uses the term "incorrect" when you disagree with it. For all it goes on about individual freedom it sure is keen on telling me I'm not entitled to my own opinions.

You expected something else from a philosophy called Objectivism?  A is A.

Quote
Should every individual have a right to employment?

Yes

Incorrect. Yikes! If there is a right to have employment, it imposes an obligation for someone else to provide a salaried position. Such tyranny is immoral. According to your answer, your preferred social system is fascism.

Ahh ha ha ha ha.

And there it is in a nutshell: when Libertarians talk about rights and freedoms, they mean freedom FROM poor people, not freedom FOR poor people.

I'd like to see them all wiped out by a dirty telephone.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Catloaf on January 10, 2013, 07:22:42 PM
Quote
As professionals, we have certain   fundamental obligations to society,[...]

I'm not sure whether  :nyoro~n: or :facepalm: is more appropriate here.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: sei on January 14, 2013, 01:47:12 AM
Quote
Should every individual have a right to employment?
Make the case where society benefits from ensuring accommodations to keep someone blind, deaf, and with an IQ of 40, employed.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on January 16, 2013, 01:27:17 PM
Quote from: http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSL1E9CG7IR20130116?irpc=932
Another survey, released on Monday by the Pew Research Center, found that most Americans -- 64 percent -- favor putting armed guards or police officers in more schools.

I... okay.  I know these "I'm moving to Canada" reactions are passe, but speaking honestly... if I were to have a child, I would have serious, actual doubts about raising it in this country, in this day and age.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Zaratustra on January 16, 2013, 05:05:23 PM
Quote
Should every individual have a right to employment?
Make the case where society benefits from ensuring accommodations to keep someone blind, deaf, and with an IQ of 40, employed.

market for novelty doorstops
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Disposable Ninja on January 16, 2013, 05:45:36 PM
Quote
Should every individual have a right to employment?
Make the case where society benefits from ensuring accommodations to keep someone blind, deaf, and with an IQ of 40, employed.

So... are you legit asking this question or are you playing libertarian asshole?

Because I mean, obviously, the subtext of the question is: Is every individual entitled to a basic standard of living, and therein a right to live? If a person is not able to maintain, or rather not allowed to maintain, for themselves said standard, and it cannot be provided for them by others (such as the government), then according to libertarian logic they have no right to live.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on January 16, 2013, 05:57:08 PM
Parsing the "every" as "every single living human, regardless of age or ability" instead of "every able person" is a pretty libertarian thing, really.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: sei on January 17, 2013, 01:36:25 PM
Quote
Should every individual have a right to employment?
Make the case where society benefits from ensuring accommodations to keep someone blind, deaf, and with an IQ of 40, employed.

So... are you legit asking this question or are you playing libertarian asshole?
Legit question. Let's call the disabled person Santorum.

I can see some case for providing Santorum with food and board. What I can't see is hiring other people to provide accommodations to keep an extreme case like Santorum in actual employ.

University assistance for an otherwise normal person who is deaf or blind has net societal benefit; they can contribute to society. Santorum can't, without more cost invested than output he can provide.

Because I mean, obviously, the subtext of the question is: Is every individual entitled to a basic standard of living, and therein a right to live? If a person is not able to maintain, or rather not allowed to maintain, for themselves said standard, and it cannot be provided for them by others (such as the government), then according to libertarian logic they have no right to live.
The distinction between (a) feeding/boarding Santorum and (b) hiring people to translate his personal work training program into Braille, putting in more accessibility accommodations, etc. financially relevant. I am not presently contesting his right to live.

Follow up: what do people have a right to bring into the world? If a baby is screened and will have severe disabilities, then what?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on January 17, 2013, 02:04:05 PM
We are not going to debate eugenics with you.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Ted Belmont on January 17, 2013, 02:15:22 PM
So uhhh

Protection For Obama's Kids, Gun-Free Zones For Ours? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bKw7ZsQgtc#ws)

This is a real ad. It is not satire.

:fukit:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Disposable Ninja on January 17, 2013, 03:01:51 PM
pointless-ass god damned hypothetical bullshit

the argument is not about whether hiring vegetables is a viable business practice.

the argument is whether every individual has a right to employment, and what that means. If an individual has no right to employment, then what does that leave them? If you have no right to acquire money, what the fuck can you do? You can't buy food, medicine, shelter, clothing, let alone can you support a family. You are literally left with nothing, not even the most basic items to sustain your life. You, by definition of not having a right to employment, have no right to live.

If the only way your hypothetical-ass vegetable can stay alive is to work, and if no one can hire him, you sure as fuck are contesting whether or not he has a right to live.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: sei on January 17, 2013, 03:39:06 PM
Programs like SSI and disability require (or constitute) employment?

The gist here is that if a system supports something, it needs to set limitations to stay buoyant.

Though I think we can all agree, here, that semite bankers are the real enemy.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on January 17, 2013, 04:02:17 PM
Though I think we can all agree, here, that semite bankers are the real enemy.

those are the guys who make the semtex, right?

(am I doing this right?)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: sei on January 17, 2013, 04:06:46 PM
(no, it needs more hate or they can't feel offended)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Rico on January 23, 2013, 05:50:57 PM
Catholic hospital sued for malpractice in death of woman 7-months pregnant with twins, argues not liable because fetuses aren't persons under Colorado law. (http://coloradoindependent.com/126808/in-malpractice-case-catholic-hospital-argues-fetuses-arent-people)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on January 23, 2013, 06:00:49 PM
God and money are two unrelated things Rico.

EDIT:
Yes, this is Classic being mortified.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on January 23, 2013, 06:23:21 PM
As unfortunate as it is for the victims of this wholly predictable clusterfuck, I support their defense on two bases:

1. It is legally accurate.
2. It implies, correctly, the the organization did NOT consider the fetuses to be people, did NOT treat them at all like people, and is NOT in any way, shape or form responsible for protecting them.

We can now proceed without operating under the idea that the "life" of an unborn non-person is at all relevant or of any damn concern of theirs.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on January 23, 2013, 08:21:58 PM
FWIW, they're still liable for the woman's death. Adding the children magnifies the tragedy, but removing them doesn't make it not a tragedy.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Rico on January 23, 2013, 09:32:17 PM
Well, not really. The argument isn't that they could have saved the woman, it's that they could have saved the children.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on January 23, 2013, 09:45:00 PM
Huh, I suppose that's not really spelled out clearly in the article. Especially when they seem to implicate the doctor overall stating he never replied to a page. But I can see where that's the argument.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on January 23, 2013, 10:15:03 PM
They're not held liable for the death of the woman because of the opinion that she couldn't have been saved anyway, they're only charged with the death of the infants, to which they are countering that no, you can't hold them legally liable if the infants have not been granted personhood, which is true and is exactly the sort of thing they have been trying to change.

This is all well and good except for three unsettling aspects of the case:

1. The fetuses died due to unexplained negligence on the part of a resident physician.
2. Neither the physician, the hospital nor the NPO running the hospital has made any sort of statement about it.
3. There is no evidence that the organization plans to be held liable, financially or morally, outside of the legal system, or to make any sort of reparations.

Basically, they don't seem to be making the "we should be responsible even though we are not legally responsible" argument (which would be the position of somebody who cared), they seem to be making the "we should be responsible, but because you haven't made us legally responsible, we refuse to take any responsibility whatsoever" argument.  It's half going-down-to-the-opponent's-level and half convenient wriggling, and generally it's being a bunch of cocks about the fact that they just killed two children.

It's odd, if not too surprising, behavior from people who proclaim to hold the rule of God higher than the rule of law, but it also draws into sharp focus the organization's priorities.  The first priority is dictating a policy; a distant second priority is actually holding sacred the lives of unborn children.  And when I say distant, I mean "failing to take a number of actions that any other medical organization, liberal or conservative, wouldn't have had to think twice about".
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on January 24, 2013, 12:51:35 AM
Except you can too be held liable for the termination of fetuses against the wishes of the parents.  It's not murder, because they're not people, but it's not not a crime.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on January 24, 2013, 08:23:48 AM
It's odd, if not too surprising, behavior from people who proclaim to hold the rule of God higher than the rule of law, but it also draws into sharp focus the organization's priorities.

Do Catholic doctors not take the Hippocratic oath? Because it seems to me that voluntarily swearing that you'll put the life of your patient before your own is a pretty damn big deal.

Or does the fact that you swear to a pagan god somehow invalidate it?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Rico on January 24, 2013, 09:42:27 AM
The Hippocratic Oath doesn't say that, but doctors don't really swear to the Hippocratic Oath these days, so maybe they do swear that and you're accidentally right?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on January 24, 2013, 10:16:45 AM
For obvious reasons it's kind of a bad idea to bring up the Greek Oath in the middle of an abortion debate.  Unless you actually like to derail things.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Rico on January 24, 2013, 10:30:43 AM
I think in general consciousness the Oath is nothing more than "Physician, do no harm". It gets referenced plenty, but kind of like the Bible: you know, it's in there, just somewhere towards the back
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Rico on January 24, 2013, 11:46:30 AM
I'm sure a lot of people have read about the proposed New Mexico bill (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/24/new-mexico-abortion-bill_n_2541894.html) criminalizing abortion after rape as "tampering with evidence." But did you know that the bill's creator has come out and said this protects women from forced abortions from people just looking to hide their crimes! WHEW! Thanks for protecting women, you collossal, party-line-humping monster!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on January 24, 2013, 12:07:50 PM
The US is already trying to criminalize pregnancy. (http://feministing.com/2013/01/17/new-report-shows-how-the-principle-of-personhood-is-already-criminalizing-pregnancy-in-the-us/)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Ted Belmont on January 24, 2013, 01:18:34 PM
Speaking of which: a new bill introduced in the New Mexico legislature would charge rape victims who terminate their pregnancies with a felony for "tampering with evidence". (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/24/new-mexico-abortion-bill_n_2541894.html)

 :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Rico on January 24, 2013, 01:26:47 PM
Two posts up, dude.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Ted Belmont on January 24, 2013, 02:57:19 PM
:whoops:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on January 30, 2013, 05:11:06 PM
Ohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygod

Okay so you know how, like, whenever President Obama says anything - like, anything - there is a vocal chunk of the right-wing that will just kneejerk say the opposite because Black President Always Wrong?  And you ever wonder if, like, he might ever make public statements just to bait those people into taking extreme and visibly insane stances in public?

Well I don't know if that's what happened.  But on Sunday, Obama gave a statement to commemorate International Holocaust Remembrance Day.  And so, on Monday, the National Review had no choice but to defend Naziism (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/339003/president-obama-commemorates-senseless-holocaust-eliana-johnson#).
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on January 30, 2013, 05:49:57 PM
Oh wow.

EDIT: Hey, maybe they're just good fans of Berlusconi (http://news.sky.com/story/1043662/berlusconi-defends-dictator-mussolini).
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on January 30, 2013, 10:14:05 PM
(http://corporate-sellout.com/img/walter_sobchak.jpg) I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on February 04, 2013, 01:28:42 PM
Favorite comment about the Obama skeet shooting flap:  "The first time conservatives have ever doubted that a black man is holding a gun."
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on February 18, 2013, 08:32:48 PM
Mississippi finally gets around to adopting 13th amendment/banning slavery (http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/mississippi-ratifies-slavery-ban-after-lincoln)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on February 22, 2013, 01:57:11 PM
North Carolina throws its hat in the ring for the Worst State in the Union competition (http://www.metafilter.com/125281/No-Lawful-Status)

I didn't even know they wanted IN to that fight, but here's the highlights to their strong entry:

- Specially marked drivers licenses for all non-US citizens (http://www.journalnow.com/news/local/article_27c689c6-7c8e-11e2-991e-001a4bcf6878.html).  Hey, you know who else had identity cards for non-sanctioned groups...?
- Almost completely dismantling their unemployment system, overnight (http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/02/19/2690851/gov-mccrory-to-signing-unemployment.html)
- proposed legislation to remove tax credits for low and moderate-income people (http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/02/14/2681428/legislation-would-repeal-nc-tax.html#storylink=misearch)
- Making the exposure of [female] nipples a felony punishable with up to six months in prison (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/14/nc-bill-could-mean-prison-time-for-topless-women/)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on February 25, 2013, 10:25:06 AM
No, the Tea Party isn't racist!  Why ever would you say such a thing? (http://mtcowgirl.com/2013/02/16/they-keep-saying-they-arent-racist-but/)

(http://i.imgur.com/rDfW4UG.jpg)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: JDigital on February 28, 2013, 12:00:45 AM
Top DHS checkpoint refusals (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Ku17CqdZg#ws)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on March 05, 2013, 06:57:43 PM
http://www.salon.com/2013/03/05/politicians_think_americans_are_super_conservative/ (http://www.salon.com/2013/03/05/politicians_think_americans_are_super_conservative/)

Interesting.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on March 05, 2013, 08:04:46 PM
One of the statistics Jon Stewart likes to trot out is that Americans are more likely to CALL themselves "conservative" in a survey, but more likely to be on the liberal side of most major issues.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on March 05, 2013, 08:27:10 PM
So is it one of those situations where people agree with a philosophy but don't want to say they're a certain thing because they've internalized the idea that the term in question is a pejorative one? (e.g. feminist)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on March 05, 2013, 08:29:29 PM
Quote
(“It’s a center-right country,” we hear all the time, which it turns out is both meaningless and untrue.)

I hate to be pedantic, but since they started it...
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on March 05, 2013, 09:28:08 PM
So is it one of those situations where people agree with a philosophy but don't want to say they're a certain thing because they've internalized the idea that the term in question is a pejorative one? (e.g. feminist)

Yes, precisely.  It's the result of guys like Limbaugh taking a concerted effort over a period of decades to give those words a negative connotation, and largely succeeding.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Rico on March 05, 2013, 10:53:38 PM
I kind of have the reverse problem, where I identify as liberal because all government seems to care about is about gays aborting children, which is where I'm liberal, as opposed to the government actually being responsible and doing their real job, where I'm conservative.

*Edited slightly to more clearly carry the subject through*
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Classic on March 05, 2013, 11:01:26 PM
I don't think that "being responsible" and "doing your job" are uniquely conservative virtues Rico. There's a lot of something to "unpack" there.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on March 05, 2013, 11:25:51 PM
Yeah, I'm not sure how "liberal" equates to "be lazy" and "don't give a damn". I'm willing to hear a longer explanation if we're just misinterpreting an off-the-cuff remark.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Rico on March 05, 2013, 11:41:01 PM
Sorry for the confusion. That is still referring to government. And I think pretty much everyone on both sides of the aisle agree that Congress in general has stopped even pretending to do their job, even if they agree on some of the positions being taken.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on March 06, 2013, 06:10:16 AM
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/03/04/1191486/-Republicans-who-didn-t-vote-for-Violence-Against-Women-Act-say-they-did-anyway-because-why-not# (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/03/04/1191486/-Republicans-who-didn-t-vote-for-Violence-Against-Women-Act-say-they-did-anyway-because-why-not#)

Rrrgh.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on March 06, 2013, 11:14:34 AM
Sorry for the confusion. That is still referring to government. And I think pretty much everyone on both sides of the aisle agree that Congress in general has stopped even pretending to do their job, even if they agree on some of the positions being taken.

Many of us are able to recognize that Congress is and has been deadlocked by Republican obstructionism for a while, and is being deliberately prevented from doing their jobs.

Again, how does "liberal" equate to lazy irresponsibility?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on March 06, 2013, 12:06:01 PM
If they were able to do their work they wouldn't because they're lazy, ergo, obstructionism is giving them something to do.

Maybe that's what they mean when they say they create jobs.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on March 13, 2013, 02:06:26 PM
So in an rambling argument I was observing (but not participating in) on another board, the subject of Dirty Poor People came up for discussion. Specifically, this side bit

Quote from: DCDave
According to Wikipedia, in 1968, the Supreme Court struck down "man-in-the-house" stipulations that required households to demonstrate that they were "suitable to raise children in" because the Court found that those rules were overwhelmingly used to deny benefits to African-American women.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aid_to_Families_with_Dependent_Children (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aid_to_Families_with_Dependent_Children)

BTW, I emailed the guy who's been working this issue at Census for the last 25 years (Relationships between income and family household structure) to determine whether or not single parenthood in African American households increased or decreased after laws were passed in the 1960s that allowed African American women to be eligible for AFDC payments.
Quote from: DCDave
So here's the report:

http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/p70-126.pdf (http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/p70-126.pdf)

I was a little wrong and it looks like motherhood DOES jump at 1968 on which is the year that the Supreme Court decided that tests of "household suitability" were being used to discriminate against AA households. It stabilizes again in the early 1980s, and settles at around 20% - Overall it's a 10% jump.

Here's a table of incarceration rates of AA men over the same period (p 157)

http://www.asanet.org/images/members/docs/pdf/featured/ASRv69n2p.pdf (http://www.asanet.org/images/members/docs/pdf/featured/ASRv69n2p.pdf)

Note that cumulative incarceration rate of AA men 18-34 spikes from 1-2% to 8% over the same(ish) period - So a significant percentage of the difference could be explained by "Suitable black fathers went to prison instead."

EDIT: I was wrong. It went from 1-2% to 4% and then with mandatory minimum sentencing/three strikes you're out went from 4% to 8%. It's still a non-trivial contributor.


Some interesting facts. Nothing earth-shattering but it's neat to actually see primary documentation.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Disposable Ninja on March 28, 2013, 01:37:51 PM
Tea Party Patriots - A Movement On Fire! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xReYMOL8nZY#ws)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Bal on March 28, 2013, 01:45:45 PM
Thank god rich young white people will finally retake their birthright.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Ocksi on March 28, 2013, 01:49:05 PM
My favorite part of that video is the part where the Tea Party is treated like Occupy.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Sharkey on April 02, 2013, 12:32:05 PM
It's almost exactly the same thing, though. Minus a few dozen videos of Tea Party Patriots being gassed and getting their heads staved in. Not that I want to see that happen.

... well maybe a little, but that's the asshole part of my brain.

Which is most of it.

Also, you know, "grassroots" vs "funded and organized by unassailable, politically and economically entrenched entities who (not which, they're all people) wear their uncompromising self-interest on their sleeve as though it were a virtue."

But that's less funny to me.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on April 17, 2013, 11:34:03 AM
http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/04/17/17798850-obama-condemns-a-shameful-day-for-washington (http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/04/17/17798850-obama-condemns-a-shameful-day-for-washington)

Wow, Obama's pissed.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Bal on April 17, 2013, 01:29:03 PM
It's interesting the way Obama made his formulaic closing statement sound so much like "Go fuck yourselves, everyone".
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: François on April 18, 2013, 05:51:23 AM
Gabrielle Giffords in the New York Times: (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/18/opinion/a-senate-in-the-gun-lobbys-grip.html?smid=fb-share&_r=1&)

Quote
This defeat is only the latest chapter of what I’ve always known would be a long, hard haul. Our democracy’s history is littered with names we neither remember nor celebrate — people who stood in the way of progress while protecting the powerful. On Wednesday, a number of senators voted to join that list.

This lady may admit to having difficulty speaking, but she sure can write.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on May 04, 2013, 01:09:04 PM
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/nras-new-president-wants-to-lead-the-culture-war.php (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/nras-new-president-wants-to-lead-the-culture-war.php)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Disposable Ninja on May 04, 2013, 01:49:52 PM
I feel... weirdly, grossly responsible for this.

Like, all I did was get the lights ready. At a warehouse.

But knowing I had something to do with it still makes my skin crawl.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Joxam on May 04, 2013, 04:55:48 PM
Yeah when I heard about him last week on the radio I couldn't get over the fact that there is still a place where someone can think the civil war should be called "The War of Northern Aggression" in American's political landscape.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on May 04, 2013, 06:07:30 PM
NRA is basically a slightly less dangerous PETA at this point.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on May 05, 2013, 04:44:55 AM
Yeah when I heard about him last week on the radio I couldn't get over the fact that there is still a place where someone can think the civil war should be called "The War of Northern Aggression" in American's political landscape.

I'm partial to "The Slaveholders' Treasonous Rebellion".
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on May 05, 2013, 04:49:10 AM
Slavers' Treason.  More succinct.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on May 28, 2013, 11:48:57 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/05/27/america-is-the-only-rich-country-that-doesnt-guarantee-paid-vacation-or-holidays/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/05/27/america-is-the-only-rich-country-that-doesnt-guarantee-paid-vacation-or-holidays/)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on May 28, 2013, 12:54:59 PM
"America is the richest country without..." is a very common phrase.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Sharkey on May 29, 2013, 05:23:01 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/05/27/america-is-the-only-rich-country-that-doesnt-guarantee-paid-vacation-or-holidays/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/05/27/america-is-the-only-rich-country-that-doesnt-guarantee-paid-vacation-or-holidays/)

This story was cropping up everywhere over the last couple days. Dunno if it was the holiday weekend bringing it some kind of new relevance or what (labor day would make more sense,) but it's strange when something that's been true since forever shows up all over the place at the same time as though it's breaking news.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on May 29, 2013, 06:55:23 AM
Oh, you know people. They don't realize they're being screwed until someone points it out.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on May 29, 2013, 07:29:38 AM
Well, that is a blog post. Probably just a WaPo writer feeling irate that he had to work on Monday. Which, I totally feel.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on May 29, 2013, 12:11:55 PM
See, I'm irritated that they WOULDN'T let me work Monday.

But only because I didn't get paid for it.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on June 01, 2013, 10:23:00 AM
http://users.humboldt.edu/mstephens/hate/hate_map.html# (http://users.humboldt.edu/mstephens/hate/hate_map.html#)

Among other things things the internet has given us: A map of hate.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on June 01, 2013, 10:31:04 AM
Wisconsin is producing quite a high rate of hate.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Caithness on June 01, 2013, 11:51:46 AM
At first glance that looks like it indicates population density more than it indicates hate or anything else.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on June 01, 2013, 01:45:02 PM
But then you notice California and... Wisconsin.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Smiler on June 01, 2013, 02:50:24 PM
Wisconsin doesn't make any sense on that map. The usual suspects aren't even red. Its just all of these non-places. And then you see how tiny the spots are that are making the entire west side of the state red on the default zoom.

I can only blame it on hell-portals.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on June 01, 2013, 03:14:37 PM
What's strangest is this tiny town on the border of Montana and North Dakota where apparently there lives this dude that just hates the handicap.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on June 01, 2013, 04:15:56 PM
It seems to be more East-West than North-South, flying in the face of common knowledge.

Of course this is sexual and not racial.  The lines may actually be perpendicular when you graph them.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on June 05, 2013, 12:32:19 PM
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/06/05/2106061/federal-appeals-court-judge-said-blacks-hispanics-predisposed-to-crime-lawsuit-alleges/ (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/06/05/2106061/federal-appeals-court-judge-said-blacks-hispanics-predisposed-to-crime-lawsuit-alleges/)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on June 05, 2013, 01:02:09 PM
I like how that article brought up an overlay which railed against the Koch brothers that could not be closed (the x button didn't work) and prevented any reading of the article.

The purpose of the overlay was to encourage the visitor to read ThinkProgress.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on June 13, 2013, 06:33:09 AM
Sarah Palin to return to Fox News. (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/13/guess-whos-back-at-fox/?hpt=hp_t2)

 :glee:
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Bal on June 13, 2013, 08:13:30 AM
Daily Show ratings soar
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Joxam on June 20, 2013, 09:34:19 PM
I only post this here because I couldn't find a topic it fit in (I honestly can't believe that we don't have a topic dedicated to the rampant sexual assault in our military so I probably just missed it) and because it struck me while watching this video that no US General would EVER say some of the things this man said and so it kinda fit. Apparently the AU military has been having their own sexual assault scandal and this video is what one of their Generals had to say about it.

Shit is amazing.

Chief of Army message regarding unacceptable behaviour (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaqpoeVgr8U#ws)

Seriously, this man's anger is fucking refreshing. And his complete lack of wavering or making excuses equally as powerful. Also he blinks once in the entire video.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on June 21, 2013, 01:10:38 AM
THAT MAN.

THAT MAGNIFICENT MAN.

Also, There are posts about the military sexual harassment stuff here and there, but I suspect it's all over the place.

Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mothra on June 21, 2013, 02:11:01 AM
God, I wish this kind of thing happened more. Fantastic.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Sharkey on June 24, 2013, 12:28:23 PM
I'd rather I couldn't track the tiny movement of his unblinking eyes reading the prompter. He shows a few calculated hints of emotion about halfway thrugh, but it twigs my uncanny valley meter. The slightest traces of emotion seem so much more emphatic by that point. Reptilian, and then just that faintest hint of pissed off social mammal makes the point.

Which makes me like it even more, to be honest. Calculated coldness in delivering a necessary message seems like the best kind of coldness. At least in this case.

Expert work in the cause of good. By sociopaths who have found their place.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Rico on June 24, 2013, 02:31:31 PM
because it struck me while watching this video that no US General would EVER say some of the things this man said
I wandered across an awkward conversation on a coworker's Facebook page the other day that to me really emphasized how hidden and insinuated sexual assault is in U.S. military culture that I may as well summarize here:
Link gets posted to a news article about how women who are otherwise interested in going to the military have to seriously consider the problem of sexual assault in their decisionmaking.

Friend's friend, an ex-military lady, posts: This is exactly what's wrong with the media. I'm a woman and I was in the military and I never felt unsafe for a moment. The liberal media just grabbed an isolated story and blew it out of proportion to insult the service.

Friend's another friend, an ex-military man, posts: Uh, $name, didn't you know that one of your friends, $name2 was raped while you were both serving together?

And she didn't know.

Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on July 17, 2013, 07:22:11 AM
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/07/16/limbaugh-i-can-use-the-word-nigga-now-because-its-not-racist/ (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/07/16/limbaugh-i-can-use-the-word-nigga-now-because-its-not-racist/)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on July 17, 2013, 08:27:50 AM
Counterpoint. The Atlantic calls the incident out for what it is: Clever trollling for ratings and exposure. (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/07/rush-limbaugh-seizes-a-chance-to-violate-the-n-word-taboo/277870/)

Sliding into irrelevance? Nothing that a new more extreme dose of "stupidity" can't solve...
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on July 17, 2013, 03:48:40 PM
Counterpoint. The Atlantic calls the incident out for what it is: Clever trollling for ratings and exposure. (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/07/rush-limbaugh-seizes-a-chance-to-violate-the-n-word-taboo/277870/)

As opposed to every single other thing Limbaugh has ever said or done in his entire professional career.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Sharkey on July 18, 2013, 11:06:33 AM
He's a geek. In the original "eats shit for attention" sense.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on August 22, 2013, 01:22:08 PM
"Look, the reason black people are so poor is that they eat so much chicken, everybody knows that." (http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/08/22/2508261/colorado-legislator-poverty-higher-among-black-race-because-they-eat-too-much-chicken/)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on August 22, 2013, 01:36:46 PM
She flips from a nature to a nurture argument in the span of a sentence and tops off with something factually inaccurate.  I move to suggest that she's not racist so much as not in total command of her mouth.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on August 22, 2013, 01:40:47 PM
It seems like those two attributes seem to go hand in hand a lot.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on August 22, 2013, 01:46:16 PM
I think each one has a tendency to look like the other.  Hanlon's Razor.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on August 22, 2013, 02:17:06 PM
Man.... this is like a few word changes away from being a literal copy of that Chapelle show sketch.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on September 15, 2013, 10:49:15 PM
Indian-American Woman wins Miss America Pageant, Twitter Erupts (http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/a-lot-of-people-are-very-upset-that-an-indian-american-woman)

Post-Racial America, Everybody!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on September 15, 2013, 11:12:13 PM
Why I Hate Buzzfeed Reason #32453: At the end of that list, it goes through a bunch of tweets saying how (white, blond) Miss Kansas is the "Real Miss America." Underneath, it links to a related article about why everyone loves Miss Kansas. Last entry on that list? A tweet that says "We all know she's the real #MissAmerica #MissKansas"
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on September 16, 2013, 02:40:56 AM
I love the insistence that the tattooed soldier/huntress had a snowball's chance in Phoenix.  Have any of you ever watched this pageant before?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on September 16, 2013, 03:06:41 AM
People referencing beauty pageants as relevant to anything already annoys me. They have been ridiculous, dark, twisted affairs which have little of anything to do with any aspect of real life for decades now.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on September 16, 2013, 03:12:41 AM
That last question wasn't rhetorical by the way (albeit not directed at you guys).  I suspect that a very significant portion of these angry tweets have absolutely no clue what the Miss America pageant even is.

Which is... kind of not too much a bad thing.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mothra on September 16, 2013, 03:20:15 AM
People referencing beauty pageants as relevant to anything already annoys me. They have been ridiculous, dark, twisted affairs which have little of anything to do with any aspect of real life for decades now.

Yeah, it... any time at all we spend discussing beauty pageants, or drama surrounding them and the people who watch them, is time we will never, ever get back.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mothra on September 16, 2013, 03:22:17 AM
Jesus christ this buzzfeed link is literally just A LIST OF TWEETS

Buge promise me you will never link to this god-forsaken site ever again
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Niku on September 16, 2013, 07:02:42 AM
http://www.buzzfeed.com/awesomer/love-you-steve-harvey (http://www.buzzfeed.com/awesomer/love-you-steve-harvey)

the one thing of value i have ever seen on buzzfeed
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on October 03, 2013, 02:38:51 AM
There's reaching and then there's this: http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/03/need-health-care-coverage-just-dial-1-800-fuckyo-to-reach-obamacares-national-hotline/ (http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/03/need-health-care-coverage-just-dial-1-800-fuckyo-to-reach-obamacares-national-hotline/)

That is some serious bullshit gymnastics to score an absurdly trivial non-point. Not only is "FUCKYO" only six characters, but the 1 isn't even at the beginning or end of the sequence, It's right in the fucking middle

I guess the main point of the article is to demonstrate that third graders can successfully run inflammatory websites?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on October 03, 2013, 04:06:35 AM
I usually expect better of the Daily Caller!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on October 03, 2013, 04:11:27 AM
I think it's a pretty good sign that things have become this silly, actually. This is self-inflicted injury territory.

EDIT: Reminds me of how a friend of mine has suggested that if Jeb Bush doesn't get the ticket for 2016, it may well be Cruz-Lee, a situation he called "The Full Goldwater".
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on October 03, 2013, 06:59:49 AM
Shots fired at the Capitol, as some but tried to ram his way in with a car. I think the car didn't even get close and they took him down already with nobody hit, but news is in flux at this stage.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Zaratustra on October 03, 2013, 07:41:44 AM
her.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on October 03, 2013, 08:31:58 AM
And there was a kid in the car.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on October 03, 2013, 09:20:44 AM
But no weapon, turns out!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: TA on October 03, 2013, 09:27:53 AM
When you're running secret service people over with it, a car is pretty much a weapon.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mothra on October 03, 2013, 02:20:42 PM
Yeah. She had several opportunities to stop, and she gunned it. She had to be stopped before she fucking drove someone over:

Incredible video of DC car chase (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36TOB4m6EEM#)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Zaratustra on October 04, 2013, 12:00:05 AM
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/04/20816675-woman-in-dc-chase-may-have-thought-obama-was-stalking-her-sources-say?lite (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/04/20816675-woman-in-dc-chase-may-have-thought-obama-was-stalking-her-sources-say?lite)

That's like the republican nightmare. Black single mothers with untreated medical issues ramming into the white house.

Quote
<ScootWork> man, just wait
<ScootWork> someone is going to claim the kid is Obama's
<zaratustra> oh god
<zaratustra> of course they are.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Friday on October 04, 2013, 01:22:32 AM
a black single woman who was crazy may have been crazy, news reports

after driving her car with her kid inside it into the capital building, reports suggest that she may have thought some crazy weird thing that makes no sense, and that shit is just whack, yo

I don't care if you're gonna try to kill the President or Congress or whatever with your car while your kid is inside it, thinking some weird, nonsensical thing is fucking beyond everything

in the future will you crazy motherfuckers who attempt to carassinate the government please be a little less weird
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on October 08, 2013, 12:30:52 PM
Quote from: glocks4interns
Painful to read. He is clearly a very smart person just with a hugely warped world view that he is in the position to put forward:

http://nymag.com/news/features/antonin-scalia-2013-10/ (http://nymag.com/news/features/antonin-scalia-2013-10/)

Quote
You can’t go to a movie—or watch a television show for that matter—without hearing the constant use of the F-word—including, you know, ladies using it.

Ladies!


Quote
Have you seen evidence of the Devil lately?
You know, it is curious. In the Gospels, the Devil is doing all sorts of things. He’s making pigs run off cliffs, he’s possessing people and whatnot. And that doesn’t happen very much anymore.

No.
It’s because he’s smart.

So what’s he doing now?
What he’s doing now is getting people not to believe in him or in God. He’s much more successful that way.

That has really painful implications for atheists. Are you sure that’s the ­Devil’s work?
I didn’t say atheists are the Devil’s work.

Well, you’re saying the Devil is ­persuading people to not believe in God. Couldn’t there be other reasons to not believe?
Well, there certainly can be other reasons. But it certainly favors the Devil’s desires. I mean, c’mon, that’s the explanation for why there’s not demonic possession all over the place. That always puzzled me. What happened to the Devil, you know? He used to be all over the place. He used to be all over the New Testament.

Right.
What happened to him?

He just got wilier.
He got wilier.

Oh Scalia.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 08, 2013, 12:45:39 PM
Sounds like somebody just saw The Usual Suspects.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on October 08, 2013, 12:51:09 PM
Sounds like somebody just saw The Usual Suspects.

I know! I was thinking the same damn thing!

I was also thinking about the bizarre parallels with the GOP's destructive bullshit lines from the past 30 years about how Government is the enemy (i.e. "belief is the enemy").
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on October 13, 2013, 07:59:35 AM
Research group does a study on the Tea Party, based on a detailed series of focus groups with Tea Party adherents. (http://www.democracycorps.com/attachments/article/954/dcor%20rpp%20fg%20memo%20100313%20final.pdf)

It projects that the influence of these groups will only increase over the GOP. 
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Bal on October 13, 2013, 09:34:53 AM
If true, the question then becomes whether they will still get elected. Some, certainly, but the GOP and the Tea Party in particular are very unpopular right now, and the TP in particular has always been very hit or miss when it comes to actually getting elected. Many long time GOP seats are just not available to TP candidates.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 14, 2013, 04:36:29 PM
Flipside is that, due to gerrymandering, a lot of what the Tea Party Republicans are doing is actually popular back home in their districts -- and indeed, if they compromised they'd leave themselves vulnerable to a primary challenge from the right.

Though that's certainly not the case across the board.

I've been thinking of sending Schweikert a letter reminding him that Arizona's seats are drawn up by an independent committee and not by a partisan legislature -- and that if he were in a district where a batshit crazy Republican was likelier to win than a more moderate opponent, then he would have lost to Ben Quayle.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Sharkey on October 15, 2013, 09:13:04 AM
I pour whiskey at time-locked saloon in a pretty damn redneck, open carry state. I regularly have to, no fucking joke, tell people to check their iron at the bar. Mostly because we have some gaming in there and you can't be armed in what's technically a casino. I got more fastidious about that after one of them shot his wife in there a couple weeks ago. Until recently it seemed like every other damn conversation had to come around to Obama taking their fucking guns away.

Yet even among the kind of folk who openly joke about lynching the president (or the saloonkeeper; I love confronting them about speaking in metaphor when I have their gun behind the bar,) a fair number of them are vocally and violently fucking pissed at the tea party republicans right now. I've had to break up fights over this shit. I take that as a pretty useful public opinion poll.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on October 15, 2013, 11:14:56 AM
Do you at least have a Wild Gunman cabinet for them to take their frustrations out on?
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: McDohl on October 15, 2013, 12:21:39 PM
That's like a baby's toy!
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on October 15, 2013, 12:40:21 PM
When I asked my father about it he said that Vegas casinos actually do allow open carry.  Normally I'd consider him an authority since his entire job revolves around keeping the gaming board from breathing down everyone's necks but on politically charged topics I have to take everything he says with a grain of salt.

On the topic of arcade machines though, if you guys don't have one of those Deer Hunter POSes in the back you're probably losing money.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Rico on October 15, 2013, 01:33:28 PM
I pour whiskey at time-locked saloon in a pretty damn redneck, open carry state. I regularly have to, no fucking joke, tell people to check their iron at the bar.
Huh, I thought I was in a state with pretty liberal gun laws (sorry...), and there's no carry allowed in bars. On further research, apparently a lot of places let you hang onto your gun while you're liquoring up.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Thad on October 15, 2013, 04:42:08 PM
It's a new trend in at least some states; just passed in Arizona a few years ago.  Which is why most of the bars now have signs in the windows explicitly declaring No Firearms Allowed.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Bal on October 15, 2013, 11:39:23 PM
My favorite restaurant in the Phoenix area (The Horny Toad, for Thad), has had a "No Guns. No Ties" sign up since it opened. You can check both at the door.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Royal☭ on October 16, 2013, 06:59:39 AM
What a gross violation of human rights. They can take my tie from my cold dead hands.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Büge on November 01, 2013, 04:34:30 AM
http://www.msnbc.com/all/americas-new-hunger-crisis (http://www.msnbc.com/all/americas-new-hunger-crisis)
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Mongrel on November 04, 2013, 12:09:45 PM
Okay, it's a trashy dailymail link, but the story seems to check out?

Homeless woman jailed five years for lying about her address in order to enroll her son in a better school district (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2108733/Homeless-mother-Tanya-McDowell-sent-son-6-better-school-wrong-town-jailed-years.html)

Note that she was also convicted for dealing drugs, but that the article explicitly states that that is a separate sentence and that the "theft of school" (are you kidding me?!) charges were indeed treated as a felony offence on their own.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Cait on November 04, 2013, 07:55:11 PM
I freely admit in advance that the whole thing is indeed bullshit, but the 'theft' charge is predicated on the concept that local property taxes pay for schools; if you send your kid to a different property tax region, you're nominally tapping funds you have no share in.
Title: Re: Culture Wars
Post by: Brentai on November 05, 2013, 04:00:38 AM
When your two charges are "selling drugs" and "gaining access to a school" you can probably expect some hyped up sentences.