Quote from: Norondor on December 31, 2011, 11:24:38 AM

for evil god's sake, i keep forgetting that even with you guys i need to slow it all the way down and use small words on issues like this.

yes, people do say things like that -- my sister, when she lived in San Francisco, used to hide her engagement ring when she was near the tenderloin -- but you do not get judges throwing out violent theft cases because the victim was carrying cash, you fucking idiots.

I'm sorry you got angry that I responded to what you actually wrote?

i'm not really that angry, rico, except with myself.

i recognize that the default assumption, in society, the boards, and the minds of everyone except apparently me and Constantine, which is actually the big deal here and not that penny arcade made another joke that falls flat on its face as part of its continual precipitous decline into uncomfortable white male gamer garbage, is that rape is automatically downplayed, trivialized, justified or hemmed and hawed over instead of being seen as an honest-to-satan societal plague on the order of the crack epidemic or nazism.

when i said "i have to remember to use baby language" it's because you are all carriers of a memetic disease that is all but unchecked in the western world, and if i don't you won't hear anything i'm trying to impart to you. it is a disease that makes you actually ask, apparently entirely seriously, if blaming the victim makes sense. it makes people state that there's no reason to be offended by humor of any kind -- a good post i didn't quote above pointed out that this is intensely hypocritical, stating that humor should be protected as sacrosanct while denying the responsibility of the artist to remember the effect their works have on other people. it causes carriers to decry the value of the continued struggle for gender equality -- not that this should come as a surprise, really -- and trot out, for the trillionth fucking time, the old saws that rape happens to men too u guise and really how is rape worse than other crimes?? in apparent willful ignorance of the fact that it's worse because it's a crime that's viewed as justified, unworthy of prosecution, or not really any worse than, say, a really bad experience with customer service.

i'm angry with myself because i'm trying to help you, i really am. it's just not always easy to remember how, or why.

Quote from: Norondor on December 31, 2011, 10:28:39 AM

probably, yes. however, you also do not hear people saying that someone was asking to be robbed, walking around dressed like that.

Actually, you do. Not so much for clothing specifically these days, but certainly for having smartphones out in the wrong neighborhood. It doesn't get publicized as much but the sentiment is definitely there.

for evil god's sake, i keep forgetting that even with you guys i need to slow it all the way down and use small words on issues like this.

yes, people do say things like that -- my sister, when she lived in San Francisco, used to hide her engagement ring when she was near the tenderloin -- but you do not get judges throwing out violent theft cases because the victim was carrying cash, you fucking idiots.

You just put actual rape into a "gray area."

... which is pretty much why the idea of "rape culture" exists.

Right, it's the media's fault you and Constantine are pointing to shit like Shakesville as being legitimate.  Yes, this particularly bullshit breed of Internet Feminism Blogging is poisonous fringe nonsense that should not be confused for the mainstream, and every time it's taken as serious mainstream thought it does a lot of damage to legitimate feminism.  That's the problem - that these idiots are listened to, and are framing the debate, and when they get called out on their blatant nonsense you say it's "mocking rape victims".

ok, i won't blame the media, i'll just leave the fault for being stupid assholes where it belongs -- with you, personally!

let's hop in the wayback machine here and see what kind of idiocy is framing the debate here, the sort of poisonous fringe nonsense we need to be blowing up to save feminism... from itself.

Because rape survivors exist among us, and after being victimized by rapists, they are revictimized by a society that treats even real rape like a joke, forced to live in a culture that actually has a lot of rape jokes, including those about rape victims being actively denied justice for no other reason than because people don't take rape seriously. I don't find rape funny because rape victims are often doubted, mocked, and insulted openly.

No, one rape joke does not "cause" someone to go out and commit a rape. But a single rape joke does not exist in a void. It exists in a culture rife with jokes that treat as a punchline a heinous, terrifying crime that leaves most of its survivors forever changed in some material way. It exists in a culture in which millions and millions of women, men, and children will be victimized by perpetrators of sexual violence, many of them multiple times.
 
It exists in a culture in which rape not being treated as seriously as it ought means that vanishingly few survivors of sexual violence see real justice, leaving their assaulters free to create even more survivors.

I also didn’t like the post because I object to people who use survivors as a rhetorical device to shield their arguments from criticism.  I feel, as a rape survivor, way more dehumanized by this post that purports to speak for survivors than I ever could by the Penny Arcade comic.  I reject and resent the suggestion that having been sexually assaulted in my past makes me unable to see that this joke for what it was. I think this rhetorical device of casting survivors as a group of women too delicate to even understand context and meaning, while well-meaning, actually hurts rape survivors by reinforcing the erroneous notion that once a woman is raped, she’s forever ruined and broken.  I don’t like being used as a rhetorical weapon in a general rant against comedy.

[...] That said, the guys at Penny Arcade responded in officially the worst possible way to respond.  As Melissa correctly notes, they attacked strawmen, and this time they really did make light of rape.  Jokes where you condemn rape in a sardonic tone really do imply that rape isn’t a big deal.  In the time it took them to write the response, there were probably like 10 rapes in the U.S. alone.  The cartoon implied that rape is less common than it is, that rape culture isn’t real, and that the whole subject is beneath you.  This was tone deaf, sexist, and stupid.

Most critics of rape jokes object on one of two bases, neither of which are "your rape joke will directly cause someone to go out and commit a rape." (That idea is absurd—which is why it's so appealing to defenders of rape jokes to deliberately misrepresent critics' arguments in such a fashion.) One criticism is that rape jokes are triggers for survivors of sexual violence (and/or attempted sexual violence). The other is that rape jokes contribute to a rape culture in which rape is normalized.
Source: Carnal Nation (http://s.tt/11cfo)

October 6, 2010

On the Penny Arcade blog, Mike mocks trigger warnings, and Jerry announces that they’ll be selling a dickwolf t-shirt in the Penny Arcade store.

yeah you know when you look at it like this i can't imagine why anyone would take umbrage with mike and jerry's behavior. US GEEKS AND GAMERS RIGHT

ultima online 2: a bioware title

you get renegade points whenever you call someone's ghost a nigger.

oOOOoOoooOOoOooooOOooooOoOOOoOooooOooOOOoOOOooOOooOooooooOOoOooooOOOoOoOoOOOooOooOOOoOoooOOooOOooOOOoOoOoOOoOOoo :(

I honestly don't feel that the comic or Gabe's response to it was unreasonable. The comic has a long history of joking about rape. The comic has a character who is a literal rapist. It is not the kind of comic you should read if you are so sensitive about rape that hearing the word 'rape' used in an impossible context triggers your PTSD. And as comic authors, they have no obligation to soften their work for a more sensitive audience, any more than George Carlin, Lenny Bruce or Richard Pryor had an obligation to soften their work for a more sensitive public.

i feel like george carlin's response to someone complaining about a rape joke wouldn't have been "lmao, rape victims xD" in his next set.

i think we already knew from when he was taunting rape victims, actually

are they made with Real Fruit Juice because those are basically from heaven

OH SHIT DIDN'T EVEN REALIZE! HE changed it again. From OceanStratagy to OceanStretagy.

Gotta get back home in time for NDAA, bro. all those FEMA internment camps aren't gonna man themselves.

ALSO WE KILLED UGLY MEAN BEARD MAN :) :)