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Author Topic: Aborpopulation  (Read 20556 times)

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  • Magic Gunner Miss Blue
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Re: Abortion
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2008, 11:10:35 PM »

She should have the choice, obviously, but the question becomes who pays.  If rapebortions are free, you'll have girls falsely accusing their boyfriends in order to avoid the bill.

Really?  REALLY?

That's kinda like the argument that if gay marriage were legal, crooked businessmen would get married so they couldn't be forced to testify against each other.  It sounds like you're just making up the most absurd scenario imaginable.

This is from Texas, where IQ is Room Temperature on a good day, so take it as you will, but I saw multiple times where the girlfriend would accuse a boyfriend of rape to avoid the most absurd things. The worst was where the girl and her boyfriend skipped a test to screw, and the girl tried to call rape to get excused for the absence. (The logic was that if she wasn't being raped, she would have totally been there to take the test)

So I can totally see Kazz's scenario. People turn into horrible creatures when it comes to money.
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Brentai

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2008, 11:35:52 PM »

How multiple is multiple?  I know it definitely happens, but I'm not entirely sure (or unsure) that it happens with enough regularity to justify framing the law around it.
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Re: Abortion
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2008, 11:38:47 PM »

In the 3 and a half years I was in high school, I heard it happen about 8 times.

If we add to it stuff heard "From a friend" and not "stuff I heard directly from Teachers' mouths", it increases to 30~ish
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Guild

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2008, 12:01:20 AM »

Okay, hold on, this just made me think of something that really pisses me off, no trolling or nothing. I'm not going to pay for some stupid young cunt to get her baby killed just because she was too retarded to use protection or keep the dick out of her. I say young because Any girl over 21 will pay for it herself via health insurance, but kids get it for free, so fuck that. Unless it won't be covered by any state-provided medical plan, it should be illegal so I don't have to pay for it. :profit:

What you're suggesting is, basically, we're going to let anybody buy abortions "health insurance" except for the cross-section of the female population who unite "young" with "poor"?  Basically, the people who can least afford to support an unwanted baby--the ones who would most benefit from the availability of abortion--are the ones you specifically want to deprive of that option?

Sounds like you want to wind up drowning in poor people!

In these United States, working any minimum-wage job and saving 10% of your $$ can lead to a comfortable (relative to global environments) life. Poor people beget lazy people is what you're implying here.

yor welcum thad

The original question: I would support a ban of abortion. Murder's never justified. Rape-victim mothers should have a network of adoption families they can get in contact with, preferrably something they have to pay to use so we the people don't have to. A hundred bucks isn't too much to pay a company to find a loving home for an unwanted child, nor is a couple of grand from the recieving family.
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Brentai

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2008, 12:09:52 AM »

Rape-victim mothers should have a network of adoption families they can get in contact with, preferrably something they have to pay to use so we the people don't have to. A hundred bucks isn't too much to pay a company to find a loving home for an unwanted child.

Nice idea, untenable.  Adoption rates are unacceptably poor as it stands right now.  Forcing a new wave of children into the system will not help either the system or the children.
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Guild

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2008, 12:14:02 AM »

The problem goes back to kids having sex too much! Damn kids.
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Detonator

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2008, 12:19:06 AM »

The problem goes back to kids having sex too much! Damn kids.

We were just talking about rape victims.  Care to elaborate?
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Re: Abortion
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2008, 12:21:15 AM »

In these United States, working any minimum-wage job and saving 10% of your $$ can lead to a comfortable (relative to global environments) life.

What about relative to just the other civilizations that have indoor plumbing?

The original question: I would support a ban of abortion. Murder's never justified.

So tell me about basic.  I hear they teach you how to make flower arrangements.

Anyway, you're ignoring the "making it illegal won't stop people from doing it" point.  I bet if someone brought up gun control, you would mysteriously suddenly remember it!

Rape-victim mothers should [...] pay

So, okay.  Let's see if I can summarize your personal ethics.

A rape victim terminating her pregnancy is an evil act...but making her carry the child to term and then PAY to have it put up for adoption is the sort of thing a decent human being does.

Okay then!
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Guild

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2008, 12:43:12 AM »

Not quite such a pretty picture as you might wish, but the world's rough, and we're all just animals. We've got to do what's best for the majority to ensure the best minority rules (those bastards).

Ideally I'd make the rapist's family pay. They raised the little shitstain.
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Kashan

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2008, 12:46:20 AM »

So does the fact that abortion rates have gone down drastically since Roe vs Wade enter into you thought process? Not to say legalizing made it go down, but it clearly bears out the the abortion rate is unrelated to its legal status.
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Guild

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2008, 12:46:52 AM »

If abortion is made illegal, people are not going to stop having abortions.  They will start getting unsafe abortions, either from unlicensed doctors, or with the help of well-meaning friends, or even all by their lonesome.  And there is an excellent chance that they will die.  It sounds ironic, but it is necessary to the sanctity of life that abortion remains legal; only then can it be well-regulated.

I completely and totally disagree with the premise that just because something is illegal and people choose to break the law it's the law's fault for being there.

Laws were made to be enforced. Lawbreakers don't get victimized by the laws, they victimize themselves by breaking them.
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Guild

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2008, 12:47:50 AM »

So does the fact that abortion rates have gone down drastically since Roe vs Wade enter into you thought process? Not to say legalizing made it go down, but it clearly bears out the the abortion rate is unrelated to its legal status.

Birth control made that happen, not Roe vs. Wade.
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Thad

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2008, 12:51:51 AM »

Griswold was 8 years before Roe.

This is that thing where you make baseless claims without bothering to hit Google.  I'm going to warn you to stop it.
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Guild

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2008, 01:07:13 AM »

@Thad:

If you're talking to me:

I meant that the decrease in abortions was due to increased birth-control use and not the legalization of abortions.

If you're addressing someone else:

Nvmd.
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Thad

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2008, 01:46:10 AM »

:facepalm: Griswold is the case that legalized birth control, Guild.  Good God, could you at least TRY to keep up?
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Cthulhu-chan

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2008, 01:51:21 AM »

I completely and totally disagree with the premise that just because something is illegal and people choose to break the law it's the law's fault for being there.

Laws were made to be enforced. Lawbreakers don't get victimized by the laws, they victimize themselves by breaking them.

Laws are a means to and end, not the end itself.  Stupid laws should neither be obeyed, nor enforced.
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Burrito Al Pastor

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2008, 02:40:03 AM »

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TA

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2008, 05:41:49 AM »

I don't see it as a matter of fetal life.  I think that's irrelevant.  What it ultimately comes down to is rights, and I see the "right to life" as a more general "right to control over one's own body".

Maybe a fetus is human enough to have a right to life, maybe it's not.  Doesn't matter.  Even assuming it does, that right does not get to supersede the mother's right to control her own body.  If a woman is pregnant and decides to stop being pregnant, at whatever time and for whatever reason, then she should be able to do so.  And unless medical technology will allow for birth to occur right now, without significant mental, physical, or financial strain on the mother?  Then abortion has to be an option, it has to be readily available, it has to carry no significant financial burden to obtain, and it shouldn't have any "have to take a sex ed class" strings attached.  It's the women's choice, nothing else factors into it.

I'd also be in favor of full public funding for abortion.  It is good public policy, and in the state's interest, to not force anybody to birth a child they don't want.
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Kazz

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2008, 06:55:56 AM »

Abortion is awful and traumatic

This line of bullshit needs to die.  The most common emotion women report after abortions is relief.

Just because abortions aren't snap decisions doesn't mean they're horrible things.

Yeah.  It's like a therapeutic massage.  I personally know several women who get knocked up monthly, just for the abortions.  I hear it's quite relaxing.

Quote from: Thad
She should have the choice, obviously, but the question becomes who pays.  If rapebortions are free, you'll have girls falsely accusing their boyfriends in order to avoid the bill.

Really?  REALLY?

That's kinda like the argument that if gay marriage were legal, crooked businessmen would get married so they couldn't be forced to testify against each other.  It sounds like you're just making up the most absurd scenario imaginable.

That marriage thing is a clever one... if polygamy were also legal, you could have the entire Mafia get hitched.

And, yes, I'll confess to watching too much Law & Order: SVU.  That being said, I didn't make this up.  If Google News would come up with anything unrelated to Sarah Palin when I put in the words "rape" and "abortion," I might have been able to give you examples.  Suffice it to say, and you don't have to believe me, I've heard about this sort of thing before, and not just anecdotally or on TV.  But I'll admit that it's uncommon, and I probably shouldn't have brought it up as an argument.  I was tired.

I don't see it as a matter of fetal life.  I think that's irrelevant.  What it ultimately comes down to is rights, and I see the "right to life" as a more general "right to control over one's own body".

Maybe a fetus is human enough to have a right to life, maybe it's not.  Doesn't matter.  Even assuming it does, that right does not get to supersede the mother's right to control her own body.  If a woman is pregnant and decides to stop being pregnant, at whatever time and for whatever reason, then she should be able to do so.  And unless medical technology will allow for birth to occur right now, without significant mental, physical, or financial strain on the mother?  Then abortion has to be an option, it has to be readily available, it has to carry no significant financial burden to obtain, and it shouldn't have any "have to take a sex ed class" strings attached.  It's the women's choice, nothing else factors into it.

<guild> If she had controlled her body in the first place, she wouldn't need the abortion. </guild>

Seriously though, there's a good reason that sex ed classes should be part of the package.  Abortion should not be used as a method of birth control, the way condoms are.  The ultimate goal here is for every pregnancy to be intentional.  Is such perfection attainable?  Doubtful.  But it's dumb to give up trying to educate people.

Quote from: TA
I'd also be in favor of full public funding for abortion.  It is good public policy, and in the state's interest, to not force anybody to birth a child they don't want.

When did we start talking about China?

This goes back to my education angle.  If people stop having unwanted pregnancies, they'll stop having abortions, and this stops being a problem.  Cases of rape, obviously, excluded.

Let me just add here that education doesn't stop at "wrap the wiener."  I've posted at length on the topic of motherhood before, and how some women have babies for extremely stupid reasons.  A good program would make sure that intentional pregnancies are also responsible ones.
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Norondor

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2008, 07:11:26 AM »

attn everyone not as well-informed as Thad: stop posting or i'll come to the next pyokon just to shit on your faces.
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