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Author Topic: Culture Wars  (Read 50998 times)

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François

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2008, 10:55:29 PM »

McCain finally says something to the crazy people.

I could accuse McCain of trying to play both sides here, but it's still good that he's publicly saying Obama is not a terrorist.

I saw these exact bits on CNN earlier today. And it looked to me that McCain was genuinely overwhelmed by all this fear and hatred. He almost had that "what have these hands wrought?" look in his eyes. I almost felt like pitying him. Almost. At this point it must feel like courting the NAMBLA vote.
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Thad

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2008, 10:59:42 PM »

Or the Klan vote.

Well, the ones not voting Obama because they think it'll prove their point, anyway.
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James Edward Smith

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2008, 11:10:49 PM »

Quote
Indeed, he just snatched the microphone out the hands of a woman who began her question with, "I'm scared of Barack Obama... he's an Arab terrorist..."

"No, no ma'am," he interrupted. "He's a decent family man with whom I happen to have some disagreements."

He better feel bad about it and if they end up giving him the white house in the end then he better still feel bad about it.
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Mongrel

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2008, 05:53:59 AM »

I have a little more respect for him now, that really did seem like a "Oh shit this has gotten way out of control." moment.

The problem, as has been pointed out earlier many times, is his desperation. He is painfully desperate to become President. Perhaps he thinks it will validate everything he has done, perhaps he thinks it will validate his life, but regardless, he's sold his soul to get where he is. I know it's an old gambit to blame the "wicked advisors" for subverting the "noble leader", but I think that at this point, he's just being pulled along in the current of whatever gets suggested at the HQ brainstorming sessions. No matter what, he is still the leader of his campaign and bears responsibility for his subordinates' actions.

That is, without question, a crushing failure as a leader. Worse yet for McCain, Obama just demonstrates so poetically that you need not sell out to gain votes. All that talk from the last 15 years (or longer) about people desperate for a 'true leader', well, Obama is exactly what a true leader looks and sounds like.
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Brentai

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2008, 07:03:05 AM »

Hard to say, Obama just might have really competent people (actually, we know he does, which is why it's actually somewhat hard to gauge his personal effectiveness as a leader.)

Whether McCain can control his people or not is a non-issue - he's running for Bush's seat, and nobody voted Bush in thinking that he had things under control or even was entirely cognizant of what was even going on.
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Doom

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2008, 07:38:20 AM »

Quote
Hard to say, Obama just might have really competent people (actually, we know he does, which is why it's actually somewhat hard to gauge his personal effectiveness as a leader.)

"Here lies one who knew how to get around him men who were cleverer than himself." - Andrew Carnegie's epitaph.

Bush was also the sort of guy who never let a little thing like caution or doubt get in his way. But you know, without being a determinator in a Shonen manga.
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Arc

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2008, 08:30:09 AM »

He wouldn't be the first Republican candidate to remain basically oblivious to his surroundings while events were mostly driven by his total rat-bastard of a running mate.

McCain is oblivious to nothing. The plan was to keep Johnny on message, while stepping back as if he's the one with honor and principle. Unfortunately, the negative campaigning has only moved his unfavorable ratings down further, and his fanatical supporters are beginning to gain unwanted attention.

Palin began the Ayers line of attack last Saturday, and has yet to relent, saying now that supporters are egging her on to go even further. The advertisements followed, claiming Obama is in league with terrorists right now. Cindy McCain stated that this is the dirtiest campaign she has ever seen, despite reports that McCain is airing 100% negative ads, while Obama is only airing 34%. Fox News is dangerously complicit , but the most telling aspect is McCain's own (delayed) reaction:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf6YKOkfFsE

The man himself is being booed by the crowd here for not catering to their fears, but then again, these aren't his people. They belong to Palin, who is still perfectly content with digging the hole deeper. As is the campaign itself, which is now targeting Michelle on Ayers, and becoming defensive about their gutter trash supporters.
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TA

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2008, 09:34:47 AM »

I like how he corrected "He's an a-rab" with "No, he's a decent family man".  The two are, of course, mutually exclusive.
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Catloaf

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2008, 10:01:52 AM »

Well, it saddens me to see that there are so many people so misguided in this country as to see so much of the world as evil, and to appear onlookers as evil themselves.  But, it does make the hypothetical sound of America's collapse a bit sweeter.  It also instills me with an optimistic view of the election's outcome.
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Mongrel

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2008, 11:46:03 AM »

But, it does make the hypothetical sound of America's collapse a bit sweeter.

No, no.

As bitter, cynical, and schadenfreude-happy as I am, even I have the sense to realize that this is something none of us want to see in our lifetimes.
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Catloaf

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2008, 11:53:16 AM »

I wholeheartedly agree, Mongrel.  I'm just saying there's one or two grains of sugar hidden in the vast desert of salt.
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Brentai

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2008, 02:42:28 PM »

I thought we had been watching it helplessly since the millennial turn.  A nation doesn't implode overnight, but you can see the progression pretty easily if you compare today's U.S. to 2000.
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Classic

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2008, 02:52:04 PM »

GRAPHS! FIGURES! MAPS!
I wanna see this progression!
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Thad

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2008, 04:06:46 PM »

I know it's an old gambit to blame the "wicked advisors" for subverting the "noble leader", but I think that at this point, he's just being pulled along in the current of whatever gets suggested at the HQ brainstorming sessions.

Poetic justice given that this is pretty much the mistake Gore and Kerry (and, for that matter, Hillary Clinton in the primaries) made.

McCain is oblivious to nothing.

...too easy.

The plan was to keep Johnny on message, while stepping back as if he's the one with honor and principle. Unfortunately, the negative campaigning has only moved his unfavorable ratings down further, and his fanatical supporters are beginning to gain unwanted attention.

True.

I like how he corrected "He's an a-rab" with "No, he's a decent family man".  The two are, of course, mutually exclusive.

In fairness, she was probably about to call him more than "Arab" before he interrupted her.

I thought we had been watching it helplessly since the millennial turn.  A nation doesn't implode overnight, but you can see the progression pretty easily if you compare today's U.S. to 2000.

I'd argue it's been happening since the Johnson Administration.
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Mongrel

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2008, 04:29:21 PM »

I know it's an old gambit to blame the "wicked advisors" for subverting the "noble leader", but I think that at this point, he's just being pulled along in the current of whatever gets suggested at the HQ brainstorming sessions.

Poetic justice given that this is pretty much the mistake Gore and Kerry (and, for that matter, Hillary Clinton in the primaries) made.

Note that I still pointed out that he's ultimately responsible.

EDIT
I'd argue it's been happening since the Johnson Administration.

I'd maybe put it in Kennedy's lap, but it's close enough that I think we're essentially looking at the same trends.
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Thad

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2008, 10:45:13 PM »

...Incidentally, I predicted the "McCain supporters exhibit nasty racist side, McCain drops in the polls" situation back in May:

I think the uglier the racism gets, the more backlash we're going to see -- there are a lot of people, both Democrats and Republicans, who are embarrassed by racism within their respective parties and who would be more likely to vote Obama simply to distance themselves from bigots.  Again, I don't see that swinging the election, but I think it's going to swing some votes.

(Guildenstern, of course, immediately told me that was "a silly assertion to make."  :whoops:)
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Brentai

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2008, 11:24:43 PM »

Except the effect you predicted is actually the cause in this case.
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Thad

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2008, 11:45:50 AM »

Joe Killian's blog: Joe claims to have been kicked by a McCain supporter at a Palin rally.

philly.com: Obama campaign is tightening its security.
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Thad

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2008, 04:37:02 PM »

McClatchy: Death threat, vandalism hit ACORN after McCain comments.

Quote
[Spokesman Brian] Kettenring said that a senior ACORN staffer in Cleveland, after appearing on television this week, got an e-mail that said she "is going to have her life ended."

A female staffer in Providence, R.I., got a threatening call from someone who said words to the effect of "We know you get off work at 9," then uttered racial epithets, he said.

McClatchy is withholding the women's names because of the threats.

Separately, vandals broke into the group's Boston and Seattle offices and stole computers, Kettenring said.

The incidents came the day after McCain charged in the final presidential debate that ACORN's voter-registration drive "may be perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history" and may be "destroying the fabric of democracy."

McCain's comments provoked a response from ACORN.

"I would not say that Senator McCain is inciting violence," Kettenring said, "but I would say that his statements about the role of this manufactured scandal were totally outlandish. We would call on Senator McCain to tamp down the fringe elements in his party."

Quote
a candidate whose campaign is so thoroughly invested in race-baiting, war and oil.

I get the war and oil, but race? Citation needed.
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Guild

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Re: Culture Wars
« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2008, 04:42:18 PM »

Again, cause and effect. McCain isn't telling people to do anything, and while I agree he should take some action, the responsibility isn't his.
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