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Author Topic: LGBT  (Read 38134 times)

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The Artist Formerly Known As Yoji

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LGBT
« on: October 20, 2008, 01:23:13 PM »

Man, has anyone else seen these Yes on Prop 8 adds lately?

Yes on 8 TV Ad: It's Already Happened

If that goes through, I might have to ask my boss if I can have a day off to get sloshed.

And those people have obviously never seen Utena. Of course a princess can have a bride!
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Kashan

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2008, 01:26:29 PM »

And those people have obviously never seen Utena.

Those lucky lucky people.  :endit:
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Niku

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2008, 01:58:13 PM »

Those lucky lucky people.  :endit:

get off my boards.
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i'm a blog now, blogs are cool: a fantastic machine made of meat

Classic

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2008, 02:07:51 PM »

Somehow, I liked Princess Tutu.
Somehow, I did not like Utena. As much as the overdone imagery and ... "allegories" compelled me to watch in an omg-it-is-a-trainwreck kind of way, I couldn't finish it.

I was excited about seeing it too.
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Disposable Ninja

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2008, 02:13:22 PM »

That little girl is probably the most mature person in that entire commercial.
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Kashan

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2008, 04:59:42 PM »

 My experience with Utena was odd. I was loving it, like really really loving right up until it ended. Queue   :oh: :THATWAY: :enraged: :angry:  :scanners: :tears:
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Kayma

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2008, 07:55:50 PM »

VOTE YES ON PROP 8. VOTE NO ON PRINCESS PRINCESS MARRIAGES
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Romosome

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2008, 07:59:26 PM »

Man, has anyone else seen these Yes on Prop 8 adds lately?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PgjcgqFYP4

If that goes through, I might have to ask my boss if I can have a day off to get sloshed.

And those people have obviously never seen Utena. Of course a princess can have a bride!

Whoever made that ad sucks at fearmongering.  That piano is way too cheerful.  Where's the ominous mood?  It comes off as either a sitcom pilot or an infomercial.

"Vote Yes on 8 now and you'll receive this free tube of miracle putty!  Watch as it holds this yappy chihuahua to the wall and bonds within seconds."
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Romosome

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2008, 08:04:30 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjkKqjkq1r4

Warning: This clip features images of violence against inanimate yard signs that some viewers may find disturbing.

WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE SIGNS?

Someday our society will get to what's important, like being terrified of being "forced to accept" gay marriage, and put these tragic and spiteful acts of intolerance against pieces of lawn posterboard behind us.
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Royal☭

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2008, 09:01:19 PM »

There's a certain grim irony underlying the "Is it Okay For the Opponents of Prop 8 to Tear Down Signs?  Vote Yes" one.

Rosencrantz

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2008, 12:23:16 PM »

My girlfriend, who was appalled by that Vote Yes On Prop 8 commercial, found this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exPoH1JX0Q8
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sei

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2008, 01:21:47 PM »

Isn't the argument against gay marriage basically appeal to tradition?
(I'll risk putting up a potentially unpopular opinion on the matter.)

Yes and no.  Marriage is ultimately a religious institution and it's shitty that we integrated it with our legal system in the way that we did.  If marriage held no legal import (beyond perhaps getting married automatically giving a couple some kind of SEPARATE legal status I'll call Coupled) then I myself'd probably say that the government can fuck right off with whether or not it gets to tell religious institutions who can qualify as holding a union specific to (a group of) religion(s).

Thing is that it doesn't work that way.

I'm not sure whether quibbling over the language is meaningful.

If the government gives one set of rights to married couples and then purports to give that same set of rights to long-term homosexual couples, but later decides to grant or remove some property from one or the other, the equality has been broken.  I think the idea is that using the same terminology from both might protect homosexual couples from discrimination.

I also think that assumption might prove wrong.  There may eventually be separate things written into law regarding "homosexual married couples" and "heterosexual married couples," at which point there's no point over bickering whether or not the term "marriage" is used, as the homosexual couple is again without equal rights to the heterosexual couple.  I don't know about you, but I'd be hesitant to take anyone's word that there'll never be any legal language to differentiate between the two (or three) types of marriage that go through.

That said, I don't think we have enough information on the mental health of children who have been raised by one kind versus children who have been raised by the other kind to decide whether the heterosexual couples and homosexual couples should have equal rights in any and all matters.

(The hospital visitation rights are a fucking no-brainer; I'm not informed enough to comment on taxes or family matters.)


I'll still vote up gay rights as best possible, including supporting gay marriage, but that's me putting the gay couples ahead of religious institutions, which I'm generally happy to erode.  If they want to change the language later, that's fine.  (Homosexual union usurping the term "marriage" is the church/synagogue/etc.'s just desserts for getting in bed with the government.)


Major sidetrack.  It's probably not an appeal to tradition so much as appeal to authority (God or will of the church) which is almost the same thing.  However, trying to keep your terminology consistent isn't fallacious.  If anything, they're being good kids and trying to avoid future equivocation (another fallacy) on the term "marriage."

(SRY WIL TRY 2 EDIT LATAR)
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Catloaf

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2008, 01:40:36 PM »

So would all this be solved if we called gay marriage "civil unions", then changed all legal use of the word "marriage" to "civil unions" as well, so that straight married couples would have the same terminology used as gay 'married' couples legally, but not in their churches?
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Kazz

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2008, 01:50:08 PM »

No, because that policy doesn't discriminate enough.
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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2008, 02:28:41 PM »

Isn't the argument against gay marriage basically appeal to tradition?
It's a religious thing, too. See, God doesn't want certain people loving each other.
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Brentai

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2008, 03:21:13 PM »

I've been telling people to take the word "marriage" out of the legal language for years.  It's literally one step away from needing a license from the American government to be baptized.
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Sharkey

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2008, 04:52:19 PM »

I'm game for that. You all couldn't play nice, so we poke a hole in your ball.

In fact, the way it works now you're pretty much getting a kickback from the government for MARRY AND REPRODUCE. Fuck it. No marriage. No civil unions, either. Any such domestic arrangements shall be made through your own goddamn contracts. Or contracts drafted by your church's lawyers, if you're a fucking clownskull.

And yeah, that pretty well covers marriage, gay marriage, legal polygamy, and hooking up with your fucking toaster if you're feeling fun about it. You just don't get a break on your taxes, jerkass.
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Arc

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2008, 04:55:54 PM »

Social Security requires an ever expanding workforce.



Get fuckin' and the government will give you money! There are billions of dollars waiting around for people just like you!
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Sharkey

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2008, 05:01:59 PM »

11th Doctor: Revealed!
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Brentai

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2008, 05:31:59 PM »

In fact, the way it works now you're pretty much getting a kickback from the government for MARRY AND REPRODUCE. Fuck it. No marriage. No civil unions, either. Any such domestic arrangements shall be made through your own goddamn contracts. Or contracts drafted by your church's lawyers, if you're a fucking clownskull.

To be fair, it used to be kind of important that married people get treated like a single person with a single income.  This sort of thing would have been updated for the modern world long ago if it weren't for people like the ones screaming about not having "married" on a piece of U.S. documentation even though they've obviously got two breadwinners and no natural dependents.
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