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Author Topic: LGBT  (Read 37366 times)

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Koah

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2008, 10:17:18 AM »

Not to derail things or anything, but Amendment 2 was approved in Florida, so America's Foreskin is pretty much in the same boat as California, except with less possibility of it being overturned.  Although I'm not sure how relevant it's going to be to the discussion seeing as how many people live in Cali as opposed to... well, here.  Just tossing that out, is all.
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Mongrel

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2008, 10:25:23 AM »

I think, like a generation ago, the main problem will be cloaked as an argument over technicalities.

I'm pretty sure that while discrimination against homosexuality per se is against the law, but tax laws relating to marriage/reproduction, state consitutional skullduggery, and other nonsense will bog this down for a while.

At least the starting point is better. There isn't a 200-year history of enslaved gay men and no state flag happens to feature a rainbow with a big "NO" symbol superimposed on it (that the state legislature argues is only there because the state hates good weather).

 :imagination:
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Transportation

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2008, 10:32:07 AM »

Yes, and they're set up assuming you're going to naturally conceive children.  This is the problem.
Not really, we let infertile couples get married. Married couples don't have children frequently enough.

And why are adopted children inferior to naturally born ones? They can even do artificial implantation if it's that big a deal. Homosexuals like families too.
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Thad

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2008, 10:44:44 AM »

Yes, but the amount of legal wrangling required for gay couples to adopt, or to have equal custody of a child who is only related by blood to one parent, is prohibitive.
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Mongrel

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #44 on: November 06, 2008, 11:04:38 AM »

See, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

Kemo Sabe up there is getting to the crux of the matter, the grounds for the right to marriage, while Thad's rightly pointing out that on the surface there's a smorgasboard of bullshit that hides or distorts that fundamental truth.

I don't think Slippery Slope applies, because if you have a healthy, intact, loving family where a child has been raised by two gay parents that mirrors the effect on society as a child raised by straight parents. Sure, there are studies that will be trotted out by the right that suppose that a child raised by a gay couple is at some kind of disadvantage as opposed to a straight couple, but how many children have been raised by batty (or friendly) old uncles or aunts? By single parents? By grandparents? By orphanages or foster homes? Yet none of those are unconsitutional.
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Thad

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #45 on: November 06, 2008, 11:27:24 AM »

In fact, gay couples are statistically BETTER parents than straight ones -- because they have to REALLY, REALLY WANT TO BE PARENTS.
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The Artist Formerly Known As Yoji

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #46 on: November 06, 2008, 11:42:49 AM »

Didn't we go through something similar with interracial marriage and miscegenation?

I really don't know what to say. I thought we were like the gay capital of the world or something. Guess not.

So, congratulations, Prop 8 supporters! You made some lesbians cry, while simultaneously protecting the sanctity of my Las Vegas drive-thru marriage and eventually messy divorce.
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Mongrel

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #47 on: November 06, 2008, 11:48:27 AM »

In fact, gay couples are statistically BETTER parents than straight ones -- because they have to REALLY, REALLY WANT TO BE PARENTS.

To say nothing of individual variability. Sometimes being raised by the crazy 3rd cousin will give a kid the best childhood they could ever hope for.
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Pacobird

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #48 on: November 06, 2008, 11:56:23 AM »

Exit polling suggests this will look very different in ten years.  The times, they are a-changin'.
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Royal☭

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #49 on: November 06, 2008, 12:45:44 PM »

10 years is a shitty amount of time to wait if you want to get married now.

Lady Duke

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #50 on: November 06, 2008, 12:51:24 PM »

In fact, gay couples are statistically BETTER parents than straight ones -- because they have to REALLY, REALLY WANT TO BE PARENTS.

I'd like to see those studies :3
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Shinra

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #51 on: November 06, 2008, 01:33:44 PM »

In fact, gay couples are statistically BETTER parents than straight ones -- because they have to REALLY, REALLY WANT TO BE PARENTS.

I'd like to see those studies :3

It's less that 'they really really want to be parents' and more 'they're scrutinized much, much, much more'. When your primary means of getting a child is through adoption, you're a lot less likely to get a kid as a complete waste of humanity. My brother makes 40k/yr through the military and has a wife who was willing to be a full time mom and they weren't able to adopt. If a gay couple isn't beating that by a lot, they're never going to get a kid in the first place.
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Brentai

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #52 on: November 06, 2008, 02:18:12 PM »

My brother makes 40k/yr through the military and has a wife who was willing to be a full time mom and they weren't able to adopt.

That's... very interesting.  What was the specific reason?
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Pacobird

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #53 on: November 06, 2008, 02:25:01 PM »

10 years is a shitty amount of time to wait if you want to get married now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbUtL_0vAJk

Not that I disagree with you.
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Guild

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2008, 02:39:24 PM »

My brother makes 40k/yr through the military and has a wife who was willing to be a full time mom and they weren't able to adopt.

That's... very interesting.  What was the specific reason?

It's cannibal discrimination. They don't even eat their children unless there's a food shortage! This country needs social reform.
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TA

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #55 on: November 06, 2008, 02:56:35 PM »

My brother makes 40k/yr through the military and has a wife who was willing to be a full time mom and they weren't able to adopt.

That's... very interesting.  What was the specific reason?

Perhaps it was deemed that a household with only one parent reliably present, trying to support three people on $40k/year, wasn't the best place to put a child.
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Guild

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #56 on: November 06, 2008, 03:02:17 PM »

40k is a lot in some areas of these United States. In Oklahoma I saw a four bedroom house for rent: 300 bucks a month.
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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #57 on: November 06, 2008, 03:51:09 PM »

Can Gays still drink out of the same water fountains as straight people?
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Guild

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #58 on: November 06, 2008, 03:51:45 PM »

This was in a nice, mildly populated area: Full half-acre yards, convenience store down the street... I disagree with your weird, unfounded bias.
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Guild

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Re: Prop 8
« Reply #59 on: November 06, 2008, 03:52:22 PM »

Can Gays still drink out of the same water fountains as straight people?

THAT'S HOW YOU CATCH IT

 :imagination:
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