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[Arc]

Man, has anyone else seen these Yes on Prop 8 adds lately?

Enough to switch back to giving No the majority again, apparently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIL7PUl24hE

what the hell arizona has an identical prop what the hell

[Romosome]

See what I was saying?  That's how you use an emotional piano.

[Arc]

A familiar voice...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj-0xMrsyxE

I've had it with these motherfuckin' homophobes on this motherfuckin' campaign!

[Thad]

Good for him.

A friend of mine tried to blather out the "states' rights" argument on marriage a few years back.  I responded that a few decades back "states' rights" would have prevented my uncle from marrying my (African-American) aunt.

[Detonator]

Civil liberties groups trying to overturn Prop 8 already.

Not surprising, but isn't the point of a constitutional amendment that it can't be overturned by the courts?  It would seem like the only way to reverse it is to repeal the amendment through another vote.

[king_tut22]

Civil liberties groups trying to overturn Prop 8 already.

Not surprising, but isn't the point of a constitutional amendment that it can't be overturned by the courts?  It would seem like the only way to reverse it is to repeal the amendment through another vote.

Yeah, that's basically the only way.

[TA]

Or federal action, probably.

They have an interesting argument, though.  It's a procedural one - saying that you can't just have a referendum to amend the constitution, you have to follow a particular procedure that wasn't followed.  If that's got merit, it could nullify Prop 8, and push it back at least for a couple years, where reconsideration might go better.

[Romosome]

Civil liberties groups trying to overturn Prop 8 already.

Not surprising, but isn't the point of a constitutional amendment that it can't be overturned by the courts?  It would seem like the only way to reverse it is to repeal the amendment through another vote.

Except if it's unconstitutional.  As in not allowed under the United States Constitution.

Since the entire measure at its most benevolent (with "Domestic Partners") is basically Separate But Equal, and we know how that turned out, it's a matter of time.

[Thad]

Civil liberties groups trying to overturn Prop 8 already.

Not surprising, but isn't the point of a constitutional amendment that it can't be overturned by the courts?  It would seem like the only way to reverse it is to repeal the amendment through another vote.

Except if it's unconstitutional.  As in not allowed under the United States Constitution.

Since the entire measure at its most benevolent (with "Domestic Partners") is basically Separate But Equal, and we know how that turned out, it's a matter of time.

The trouble is that the current SCOTUS will NEVER make that ruling.  We basically need to wait until Kennedy or Scalia retires.

[Detonator]

Exit polls on prop 8.

The most significant finding is the 70% approval from blacks.  This is the highest margin by any group that is not conservative or Republican by a long shot (even higher than Catholics).

Ironically, the high turnout by blacks for Obama may have made the difference.  Obama has given support to gay rights in his speeches (while rejecting gay marriage), should he have done more?  I'm not even sure why blacks are more against gay marriage than any other ethnicity.

[Romosome]

Something something something culture blah blah thread slowly descending into White Kids Talk About Race.

Linking of youtube clips using the phrase "no homo"

kitten macros

mutual acceptance of terms and agreement to not produce copies for non-personal usage.

[Thad]

Something something something culture blah blah thread slowly descending into White Kids Talk About Race.

...I'm fairly confident we don't have anybody here who supported 8.

...Which I think means Guild has to do a 180 on it now just so he can start an argument.

[Brentai]

Black people have an unfortunate tendency to discriminate against whoever they can.  I can't entirely blame them.  If I had to spend my entire life getting kicked in the head, I'd jump at the chance to do it to whoever I'm told it's okay to do it to.

Like I said before, I expect a repeal vote to go up in 2010 and pass, once the country as a whole has been pulled back away from the right and California realizes that this is really, really embarrassing.

...and Guild already tried to start an argument about this.  You jailed him for it.

[Burrito Al Pastor]

Surprised men voted slightly more than women for prop 8. You'd think "LESBIANS!" would be entirely sufficient as a vote against 8 for many men.

[Detonator]

Something something something culture blah blah thread slowly descending into White Kids Talk About Race.

Linking of youtube clips using the phrase "no homo"

kitten macros

mutual acceptance of terms and agreement to not produce copies for non-personal usage.

Way to contribute to the discussion you fuck.

This doesn't have to revolve around race but I noted it because I thought it was significant.  I'm not black and I don't live in California, so I'm mystified as to why one race (predominantly Democrat to boot) would be overwhelmingly anti-gay compared to, say, hispanics which were just over 50%.

If you have nothing of substance to add, then kindly shut the fuck up.

[Brentai]

I would expect men to be way more homophobic than women in general.  I mean no matter how open-minded you are, you meet a gay man and you have to think, "There is a possibility this guy wants to penetrate my anus."  A chick in the same situation would be like, "Oh no, she's going to... finger me?  Maybe?"

[Detonator]

Surprised men voted slightly more than women for prop 8. You'd think "LESBIANS!" would be entirely sufficient as a vote against 8 for many men.

Honestly?  Doesn't surprise me at all.  It seems more men are offended by homosexuality to the point where most use it as a derogatory slur.

I wouldn't think "zomg lesbians" factors into it at all.  I don't think many men have empathy for the subjects of their sexual fantasies, if that's what you're suggesting.

[SCD]

Question:  Do married couples gain benefits under your tax system?

[Brentai]

Yes, and they're set up assuming you're going to naturally conceive children.  This is the problem.

[Royal☭]

Like I said before, I expect a repeal vote to go up in 2010 and pass, once the country as a whole has been pulled back away from the right and California realizes that this is really, really embarrassing.

I'd like to believe that, but two other states in this election voted their own anti-gay amendments, but only California's got any real attention (most likely because of the liberal nature of the state and oh yeah they said it was okay a few months ago).  What I do feel like is this is an opening salvo in the civil rights battle for homosexuals in the country that's going to be waging over the next few years.  President Obama may actually have to come out and take a definitive stance on this, and he could be hailed as a civil rights hero one way and a monster the other.

And it'll be a long time before states like Texas can accept homosexuals, so the federal government is going to have to step in and force them, kicking and screaming, to accept it.