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Author Topic: Unforgivable Sins of Game Design  (Read 55700 times)

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Ted Belmont

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Re: Unforgivable Sins of Game Design
« Reply #420 on: April 05, 2011, 05:29:27 PM »

Also, jumping on your "friends" at exactly the right moment to make them fall into a pit, or lava, or picking them up and throwing them into enemies...

That's how you're supposed to play, right?
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Thad

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Re: Unforgivable Sins of Game Design
« Reply #421 on: April 05, 2011, 05:54:53 PM »

The first time we played, my girlfriend got knocked off her Yoshi and I picked her up with mine and spat her back onto hers.  As it was running.

It was pretty awesome but I haven't been able to duplicate it.
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Norondor

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Re: Unforgivable Sins of Game Design
« Reply #422 on: April 05, 2011, 06:23:41 PM »

Also, jumping on your "friends" at exactly the right moment to make them fall into a pit, or lava, or picking them up and throwing them into enemies...

That's how you're supposed to play, right?

yes

unequivocally
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Norondor

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Re: Unforgivable Sins of Game Design
« Reply #423 on: April 05, 2011, 06:23:54 PM »

the ideal is to almost kill a boss, throw your friend into it so he dies, then die
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Thad

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Re: Unforgivable Sins of Game Design
« Reply #424 on: April 05, 2011, 06:32:45 PM »

I have, on multiple occasions, accidentally hit the A button while I was the last person alive fighting a boss.  I managed not to throw the remote at the TV but I DO think that particular choice of button placement DOES fall under the thread title.
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Doom

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Re: Unforgivable Sins of Game Design
« Reply #425 on: April 06, 2011, 06:34:34 AM »

A lot of the difficulty of NSMBWii is mitigated by the fact that as long as you have two or more players, you just need a designated driver who has beaten some NES/SNES Mario games in his lifetime. You're only limited by lives and keeping one guy up until a bubble pop. I took exquisite pleasure in being both the Grand Griefer AND the Designated Driver. Sometimes I'd make my best friend watch me clear up to 70% of a level by myself, dodging his bubble in addition to all other obstacles.

Quote
I am unable to determine if NSMBW is any more difficult than any of the old 2D Mario platformers.

Try beating Super Mario Brothers 3 without skipping any levels, particularly the Forts.

Quote
Troll The Player: Or, Designers With A Sense Of Humor Are The Worst Thing

Super Paper Mario has a set of three nondescript blocks at a dead end. To find out what you have to do, you need to go back to the village and talk to a NPC. This NPC won't give you the solution to the puzzle until you say "please" FIVE TIMES, by TYPING IT ON THE SCREEN KEYBOARD. Oh and the solution is that you have to headbutt the blocks, TWENTY TIMES, in a certain order that the NPC asks you to WRITE DOWN.

Luckily, the next dungeon is filled with copies of that NPC you can kill for a mere cost of a hundred experience points.

This is golden, sorry.

Quote
Bowser's Inside Story both try to improve a winning formula by removing equippable items. OH HEY SUDDENLY EVERY SIDE PATH IS COMPLETELY USELESS AND THE PLAYER HAS NO MOTIVATION TO DO ANYTHING BUT FINISH THE GAME AS QUICK AS POSSIBLE.

That game has equipment. And badges. And redundant but useful shops, so money is useful if easy to get. It also rewards you with at least two of the best attacks in the game for exploring thoroughly. And finally, you're invited to re-explore every square inch of the world again for stat-boosters which are pretty great when you realize how ruthless the extra gauntlet boss fights are.
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Thad

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Re: Unforgivable Sins of Game Design
« Reply #426 on: June 04, 2011, 08:36:12 PM »

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!

Yrden!  Trap it with the Yrden!
YOU come down and trap it!
Use a sign!  Trap it with the Yrden!
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BŁge

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Re: Unforgivable Sins of Game Design
« Reply #427 on: June 04, 2011, 08:49:02 PM »

What are you trying to tell us, Thad?
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Thad

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Re: Unforgivable Sins of Game Design
« Reply #428 on: June 04, 2011, 09:40:48 PM »

Can I get you a LADDER?  So you can get off my BACK?
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PhoenixUltima

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Re: Unforgivable Sins of Game Design
« Reply #429 on: June 11, 2011, 01:58:17 PM »

GET UP ON THE HYDRA'S BACK!
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Brentai

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Re: Unforgivable Sins of Game Design
« Reply #430 on: June 11, 2011, 02:10:06 PM »

TRY TO GET YOUR COMBAT MULTIPLIER EVEN HIGHER!
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Bal

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Re: Unforgivable Sins of Game Design
« Reply #431 on: June 11, 2011, 02:54:15 PM »

Well maybe you should use the fucking, Yrden, Thad. Shit works.
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Thad

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Re: Unforgivable Sins of Game Design
« Reply #432 on: June 11, 2011, 04:15:13 PM »

I eventually got it to work, yes.  After about ten deaths trying to get close enough to the monster to use it and twenty more deaths figuring out that not all the tentacles have glowies.  From there it was only about twenty more deaths due to my accidentally placing the sign one step off the line where the tentacle comes down, and then three more due to my missing the right-click QTE.

It IS an exceptionally well-designed battle.  It's just that the weirdly grid-based movement in the game isn't quite conducive to it.  And in real life when somebody doesn't understand the instructions you give him you don't just repeat the exact same words over and over again, you elaborate in some way or, failing that, shut the fuck up after awhile.
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Norondor

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Re: Unforgivable Sins of Game Design
« Reply #433 on: June 11, 2011, 04:56:14 PM »

it's a videogame thad not irl! :rolleyes!:
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Bal

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Re: Unforgivable Sins of Game Design
« Reply #434 on: June 11, 2011, 05:36:28 PM »

The tentacles cast shadows where they're going to come down. Also, if you've built the Kayran trap it shows all the places the tentacles come down until you use it to get your free tentacle chop.
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Thad

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Re: Unforgivable Sins of Game Design
« Reply #435 on: June 11, 2011, 06:51:55 PM »

The tentacles cast shadows where they're going to come down.

Not if you're using an ATI 2600XT they don't.

And even knowing exactly where one was going to land (because I'd just seen it land) wasn't really a guarantee that I could place it properly.  Again, the game has rather awkward grid-based movement; a single step may take you beyond the spot you're aiming for.

Also, if you've built the Kayran trap it shows all the places the tentacles come down until you use it to get your free tentacle chop.

Yeah, I'll admit I forgot about the trap until the fight was over; otherwise I'd likely have restored and gone back to make one.
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Bal

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Re: Unforgivable Sins of Game Design
« Reply #436 on: June 11, 2011, 06:55:45 PM »

I honestly never had a problem with this movement system you keep talking about, to the point that I didn't even notice it until you mentioned it. The Yrden trap has a pretty large radius compared to the graphic, and any part of the tentacle will do when it comes to stunning the thing. The trick for me was just getting out of the way after plantin the thing.
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teg

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Re: Unforgivable Sins of Game Design
« Reply #437 on: June 16, 2011, 05:17:21 PM »

So tonight went like this:

"Hey! You know what I haven't played in ages? The Legend Of Zelda: Twilight Princess! I'll bet beating some of those awesome bosses on the new TV would be pretty keen!"

"Huh. Looks like I saved right after the Temple Of Time. I think I can pick up from here."

*2 hours pass with absolutely no dungeons, no bosses, the bare minimum of combat, and the most tedious fetchquests I've ever played*

"I hate this game so much."




On the plus side I realized you could play fetch with the dog in Hyrule Castle Town.
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BŁge

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Re: Unforgivable Sins of Game Design
« Reply #438 on: June 24, 2011, 10:39:32 AM »

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Mongrel

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Re: Unforgivable Sins of Game Design
« Reply #439 on: June 24, 2011, 11:24:50 AM »

Not just video games.
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