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Author Topic: Make mine doodles  (Read 47034 times)

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The Artist Formerly Known As Yoji

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Re: Make mine doodles
« Reply #100 on: May 27, 2009, 09:59:04 PM »

Then I've successfully deflected attention from my complete inability to draw a straight, solid line!
:perfect:

Additional: kinda rip-off of both the Half-Life Hunter and MGS Scarab <3's u
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Guild

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Re: Make mine doodles
« Reply #101 on: May 27, 2009, 11:49:10 PM »

I feel like such a slouch compared to the other stuff that's rolled through here lately. Oh well.

I don't know why, but I felt like doing my role from The Good, The Bad, and The Werewolf.

... :shrug:

That is the coolest thing I have seen in a month of attending art school. It's dynamic, well proportioned and artistically thematic. I'd almost hate for you to refine it any further.
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François

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Re: Make mine doodles
« Reply #102 on: June 20, 2009, 08:52:33 PM »

I'm training to draw so I can do a comic idea I've been hanging on for a long time. I've set a list of goals for myself, things that I got to be able to render to at least some small degree before I can start. I don't know if that's a very smart way to go about things; maybe I should take a more global view of things, or just say "fuck it" and go with what I have now. Ehh.

Anyway. The first goal on the list is to be able to draw a cute/attractive/handsome human face that you can tell is that way just by looking at it. I don't want to have to tell the reader that a character is meant to be hot or plain or homely, it has to be obvious. Also I don't want to be too cartoony. I'll need abstraction to a degree because I'll do the same characters over and over again and frankly I might not have the talent to be all realistic over a long period of time, but I do want to draw in such a fashion that one could visually imagine my characters as human beings.

And I may still have a long, long way to go to be satisfied, but I think I'm close enough to that objective now that I can move on to the next. (Which is hands. Human-proportionate, five-finger hands.)

I haven't completely settled on a style yet, but here are a few of my least terrible favorite options. (Please excuse this poor man's cheap scanner and/or terrible ability at operating it. I still have a hard time finding the balance between keeping the lighter lines and picking up the paper grain.)


Are those ears too big? They might be. I can't tell, I've looked at it too long.




I think I might have a problem with eyes being too far apart sometimes. I know the ideal space between the eyes is about the length of an eye... Maybe it's borderline.












Does this hair make as much sense as I wanted it to?


Is her head too big? Kind of is, isn't it? Also, yeah, no hands. Not yet.


Yeah I got dudes too. I don't like the eyes on this one though.




Man I hope that doesn't look like a mullet.



I'd post some finished pictures, but I just realized I haven't made any in a long time and the last one I got makes me cringe so yeah. And, uh, hmm. Does my way of doing hair work as well as I want it to? It's pretty much the most consistent aspect of everything I've done so far and possibly the one I'm most satisfied with, but part of me's all "but what if it sucks? how could you tell?". Oi.
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Lady Duke

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Re: Make mine doodles
« Reply #103 on: June 20, 2009, 08:55:12 PM »

Can someone suggest a good free program for drawing/coloring that has line-smoothing and layers?
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Disposable Ninja

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Re: Make mine doodles
« Reply #104 on: June 20, 2009, 10:14:35 PM »

Uh. A pirated copy of Flash?
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Lady Duke

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Re: Make mine doodles
« Reply #105 on: June 20, 2009, 10:26:11 PM »

I meant something that isn't flash since flash is the obvious choice.
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Brentai

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Re: Make mine doodles
« Reply #106 on: June 20, 2009, 10:35:00 PM »

I stand by Flash as it is about the only program that allows me to fake having the slightest inkling of artistic talent.

If there's another program with a similarly magical paintbrush tool that makes all your mistakes look intentional, I would love to hear of it.
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Lady Duke

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Re: Make mine doodles
« Reply #107 on: June 20, 2009, 11:06:15 PM »

That's what I was asking, because I too am hoping such a thing exists.
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Disposable Ninja

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Re: Make mine doodles
« Reply #108 on: June 20, 2009, 11:11:37 PM »

Anyway, Zed: the best, general advice I can give you is to read the fuck out of John Kricfalusi's blog. I know a lot of people don't much care for what he has to say because he turned Penny Arcade's art from this to this, but the honest truth of the matter is that he really does give (all of it away for free, by the way) great advice that every artist should pay attention to.

A more baseball crack at your art: you're drawing wrong. Think of drawing as a lot like writing; there are multiple drafts that begin with a crude outline that is eventually refined into something beautiful. The way that you're drawing, it looks like you're starting with the final draft. When you draw, you should start with the largest shapes, and then you add details to those shapes, and then details to those details, and so on and so forth until you have a finished picture. If you want some examples of what I am talking, hey, here comes Tracy Butler and Nate Piekos to the rescue.
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François

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Re: Make mine doodles
« Reply #109 on: June 21, 2009, 01:08:51 AM »

I've been trying to do this "outline ---> detail" thing from the beginning, and still am. I started my attempts by going through the Andrew Loomis books you can dig up online, I dug up everything the local library has on drawing technique, I've got pages and pages and pages of that circle with a cross to build a head on, and stick figures with ball joints, and "sausage men" made out of ovals, but I just haven't been able to make it look right yet, and not for lack of trying. It's like I got the individual basics right but I have trouble putting them together. Somewhere along the way I started to try and eyeball it through brute force as kind of a possible backup solution, but, heh, I guess this isn't so hot either, if it's so bleedin' obvious. :nyoro~n:

Well, thanks for the tips. I had seen John K's blog before but haven't paid much attention to it because to be honest I've disliked everything I've ever seen of him, but I, uh, I suppose I shouldn't let that get in the way of good advice.
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Disposable Ninja

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Re: Make mine doodles
« Reply #110 on: June 21, 2009, 06:53:18 AM »

I get what you're talking about, and you're over-thinking it. Look, stick figures and ovals, you don't do those things because that's The Way Artists Do ItTM. You do them to help plan out the final draft, and it doesn't necessarily matter how you get there as long as it looks good in the end. Use 3D shapes, use 2D shapes, put a skeleton figure down first, or even just scribble vague human-like things down on the paper, it doesn't matter. It's all about planning it out ahead of time.
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François

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Re: Make mine doodles
« Reply #111 on: June 21, 2009, 08:25:35 PM »

I think I understand what you mean. In my head I had two options: do it like everyone else, or fake it like a champ. But yeah that is a terrible way to see things.

Heh, looking at it now it feels kind of funny. I'm all "woo look how far I've come" and you're all "dude you're not even walking in the right direction" and I'm like "uh oh". But that's okay, I can switch gears.

You know, I had kind of a weeaboo phase for a moment. I started out with , ended up with , and then had a look at how the competition started up, and it was . I don't know if I got the Pygmalion syndrome or if I'm just plain biased or what, but I still like my later stuff better even if the construction is flawed. I mean, I want to do a webcomic. It's not about leaping over the bar so much as it is about not tripping on it. (This too is a terrible way to see things, I do need to aim high, but I think you know what I mean.)

That said, I eventually decided that this wasn't the way I wanted to go, that it didn't fit the story I wanted to tell. And now it would seem my drawing would possibly be improved if I approached from the outside in instead of from the inside out. I guess I kind of knew it. But that's cool, I can swing that. Maybe not right away, but I'll get there.
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Royal☭

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Re: Make mine doodles
« Reply #112 on: June 21, 2009, 08:29:06 PM »

Look at it this way: If you only learn how to draw the details and anatomy you've copied, that's all you'll be able to do.  But if you learn what underlies the image and makes up how anatomy works, you'll be able to do more.

yyler

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Re: Make mine doodles
« Reply #113 on: June 21, 2009, 08:31:35 PM »

Having read more webcomics than probably anyone should, I can safely tell you your art is good enough for a comic as it stands. It's not excellent or anything, I'll be honest, but you're doing a lot better than so many other people out there. If the drawings match the tone of the comic then all the better.
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Brentai

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Re: Make mine doodles
« Reply #114 on: June 21, 2009, 08:36:22 PM »

Yeah uh if this can become one of the longest running and most successful webcomics out there you really ought not worry too much about beating that bar.

Not even mentioning the ones that don't even have actual art...

EDIT: Although today's Darths and Droids points out that even though we're not mentioning them, they are not to be belittled.
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yyler

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Re: Make mine doodles
« Reply #115 on: June 21, 2009, 08:42:16 PM »

See also Is This Too Real For You, Super Mega Comics, XKCD, Dinosaur Comics, Hitmen for Destiny, White Ninja, Cowbirds in Love, Buttersafe, SMBC, MS Paint Adventures, Pictures for Sad Children, Wonderful Theater Comics, Dominic Deegan, Bob the Angry Flower

I mean yeah some of them are cartoony and some aren't but those all have arguably unattractive art styles or otherwise undeveloped art styles and I mean the fact that you are trying at all already puts your art at a higher plane.

Obviously some things are meant to match the art--would Super Mega be as good with real art? no--but you get the idea
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Brentai

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Re: Make mine doodles
« Reply #116 on: June 21, 2009, 08:44:13 PM »

Basically unless you're Fred Gallagher your art skills can't help but improve with daily practice.

Although if you're Gabe your improvement may be less linear and more of a slightly tilted sine wave...
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Royal☭

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Re: Make mine doodles
« Reply #117 on: June 21, 2009, 08:54:14 PM »

Bob the Angry Flower's art seems to be deteriorating.  Also, many of the "popular" comics do show that you art (or even storytelling) doesn't have to improve to continue drawing in readers.  But the question to ask yourself is, is that what you really want?

Now, that in no way says you should set the bar so high you'll never reach it.  It's better to create something at the current level you're at than to put it off because you're worried you wont do your vision justice.  You won't get better without practice, and just doing technical exercises isn't the same as just making comics.  It's like practicing an instrument: You can train your muscles to be faster and more accurate, but you unless you start playing songs you'll never be doing anything more than scales.

François

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Re: Make mine doodles
« Reply #118 on: June 21, 2009, 09:14:02 PM »

I'm definitely not going to wait for perfection. But I do want a baseline of quality, and there are a number of things that bug me that I want to avoid, like mitten hands, noodle limbs, or that dumb way to represent open mouths in profile that includes a straight line from the nose to the chin. There'll be space to grow but I don't want to start with crutches or training wheels on.
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Büge

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Re: Make mine doodles
« Reply #119 on: June 22, 2009, 12:51:47 PM »

Mirrors help a lot. Use them to get a better appreciation of the structure of a face by examining your own. Any art teacher worth their salt will tell you to draw what you see, not what you think you see. Also,

I think I might have a problem with eyes being too far apart sometimes. I know the ideal space between the eyes is about the length of an eye... Maybe it's borderline.

Also, the sides of the mouth should line up vertically with the pupils. The centre horizontal line of the face is one eye-length down from the pupils. Everything measures up on a face, and on the human body. It's eerie. For more fun times, look up the Golden Ratio.

Also, look at your drawings in a mirror. It helps you to notice mistakes you might be missing.

Also,


I like this face very much. Keep up the good work.

Bob the Angry Flower's art seems to be deteriorating.  Also, many of the "popular" comics do show that you art (or even storytelling) doesn't have to improve to continue drawing in readers.  But the question to ask yourself is, is that what you really want?

Now, that in no way says you should set the bar so high you'll never reach it.  It's better to create something at the current level you're at than to put it off because you're worried you wont do your vision justice.  You won't get better without practice, and just doing technical exercises isn't the same as just making comics.  It's like practicing an instrument: You can train your muscles to be faster and more accurate, but you unless you start playing songs you'll never be doing anything more than scales.

Anybody want me to illustrate a comic for them?
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