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Author Topic: Legalize It!  (Read 15156 times)

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Arc

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Legalize It!
« on: December 13, 2008, 06:40:11 PM »

The very first inquiry on Open for Questions regards Legalizing It.

This wasn't apart of the 2008 platform, but a strong case can be made to include the issue in the 2010 platform.
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Detonator

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Re: Government 2.0
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2008, 06:58:29 PM »

I love the phrasing of the question:

Quote
"Will you consider legalizing marijuana so that the government can regulate it, tax it, put age limits on it, and create millions of new jobs and create a billion dollar industry right here in the U.S.?"

 ::(: Sorry, I'm anti-job creation.
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"Imagine punching somebody so hard that they turned into a door. Then you found out that's where ALL doors come from, and you got initiated into a murder club that makes doors. The stronger you punch, the better the door. So there are like super strong murderers who punch people into Venetian doors and shit"

Thad

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Re: Government 2.0
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2008, 08:31:10 PM »

The drug war is the absolute top of my list of Issues the Democrats Should Be Dealing With But Won't Touch With a Ten-Foot Pole.

I'd typically say that medical marijuana should be where the conversation starts, then talking about emphasizing treatment for drug addiction (hard drugs, of course; marijuana's not addictive) over incarceration, and THEN move on to talking about treating marijuana the same way we treat alcohol.  But moving straight to #3?  Sure, let's do it.  Why fuck around?

If anybody can give me an objective reason marijuana should be illegal that does not also apply to alcohol and/or tobacco, well, that'd be a first.
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Brentai

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Re: Government 2.0
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2008, 08:40:52 PM »

talking about emphasizing treatment for drug addiction (hard drugs, of course; marijuana's not addictive) over incarceration

Proposition 5 failed in California.  Only very partially because the law was badly written.

We're not even at 2 yet.  Jumping to 3 would backfire a lot.

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Thad

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Re: Government 2.0
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2008, 10:23:19 PM »

Disagree.  I think even bringing it to the table as something to debate on is a huge step up.

It would lose in the short term, but I think it would gain ground.  I think that's what's happening with gay marriage, too.
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Sharkey

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Legalize It!
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2008, 02:32:57 AM »

Fun fact: There's precious little consideration of what might actually happen if the whole LEGALIZE IT bit actually worked. It'd be nice if you knew the people you bought weed from weren't in some way responsible for fucking up a bunch of parkland or whatever. Meanwhile, well, if it were legalized, I'm not entirely keen on buying weed from RJ Reynolds.

Then again, that hasn't stopped me from buying cigarettes from RJ Reynolds. Though that was land already pretty well and long fucked up toward the production of tobacco, and I'm an idiot when it comes to giving myself cancer.

Given the choice between a bunch of poor assholes putting their kids through college by growing weed on public land (most of my graduating class, in fact) and a bunch of not-even-a-little-bit-poor assholes turning that same land into legitimate plantations though determined lobbying...

Actually, I don't know what the point is. Personally, I'm just liking the illegality of the the thing at this point. In America these days the only way of keeping anything honest or respectable seems to be in keeping it illegal.

Don't mind me. I'm just trying to kick up some shit and get a spinoff thread.
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LaserBeing

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Legalize It!
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2008, 03:02:23 AM »

Right, but on the other hand you've got the poor assholes doing 5-10 years in prison for trying to put their kids through college. So it's a bit of a catch-22.

I guess the secret is to be like BC, where it's still illegal but nobody ever cracks down on it because it's the cornerstone of our god damn economy.
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Kazz

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2008, 03:55:53 AM »

There is no reason for it to be illegal.  That said, speeding is illegal, underage drinking is illegal, prostitution is illegal, basement poker games are illegal, throwing pennies away is illegal... how much does legality matter?

A lot, if you get caught, unfortunately.

I think prison terms for most crimes are excessive, but pot takes the cake.  Anything over a year is utterly fucking ridiculous.

I'll steal some stats from Connecticut, to pick the state that came up first in Google:

For simple possession:
Quote from: http://www.cga.ct.gov/2008/rpt/2008-R-0455.htm
At least four ounces of marijuana

First offense:  up to 5 years in prison, up to a $ 2,000 fine, or both

Subsequent offenses:  up to 10 years in prison, up to a $ 5,000 fine, or both


Less than four ounces of marijuana

First offense:  up to 1 year in prison, up to a $ 1,000 fine, or both

Subsequent offenses:  up to 5 years in prison, up to a $ 3,000 fine, or both

If you're curious, here is the felony code in Connecticut, regarding murders and such.

Quote from: http://search.cga.state.ct.us/surs/Title53a.htm
(1) For a capital felony, a term of life imprisonment without the possibility of release unless a sentence of death is imposed in accordance with section 53a-46a; (2) for the class A felony of murder, a term not less than twenty-five years nor more than life; (3) for a class A felony other than murder, a term not less than ten years nor more than twenty-five years; (4) for the class B felony of manslaughter in the first degree with a firearm under section 53a-55a, a term not less than five years nor more than forty years; (5) for a class B felony other than manslaughter in the first degree with a firearm under section 53a-55a, a term not less than one year nor more than twenty years, except that for a conviction under section 53a-59(a)(1), 53a-59a, 53a-70a, 53a-94a, 53a-101(a)(1) or 53a-134(a)(2), the term shall be not less than five years nor more than twenty years; (6) for a class C felony, a term not less than one year nor more than ten years, except that for a conviction under section 53a-56a, the term shall be not less than three years nor more than ten years; (7) for a class D felony, a term not less than one year nor more than five years, except that for a conviction under section 53a-60b or 53a-217, the term shall be not less than two years nor more than five years, for a conviction under section 53a-60c, the term shall be not less than three years nor more than five years, and for a conviction under section 53a-216, the term shall be five years; (8) for an unclassified felony, a term in accordance with the sentence specified in the section of the general statutes that defines the crime.

The mere fact that punishment for marijuana possession even approaches the punishments for murder and manslaughter is completely batshit insane.  Partaking in the ganja is about a third as bad as killing a man.

Don't even get me started on the incongruity between the fine totals and the prison terms.  10 years of the only life on this Earth that you will ever have is not equivalent to five fucking grand.
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Sharkey

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2008, 04:02:59 AM »

So... we move to an economy where everything is fine until you get too big and start making everyone's life suck, at which point your business is dissolved and you go to jail.

I thought we were supposed to have something like that in the first place.

I understand that there's a lot to be saved through the economics of scale, but the raw numbers don't very well account for what's lost, with this or any other commodity. In a way I still long for a cobbler in every neighborhood. Be damned if it costs more than a pair of Chinese Nikes, I'd rather know the fucker's name.

But then, that can be just another ugly kind of conspicuous consumption. It's a damn luxury. Going to a microbrewery instead of picking up a case of Budweiser. Buying heirloom tomatoes instead of the agribusiness crap. If you live on microwave burritos and American cheese it's probably not entirely by choice, but there are bastards that will look down their nose at you for it, and fuck those guys.

I'm just not wild about the idea of mass market weed or anything else. It's just a bigger issue than that. Quality vs. quantity, really. Or the human element. Whatever you want to look at. It's why British cuisine became so famously shit. If all that's readily available is shit, you get pretty used to shit in a generation or two. Maybe it's sad to say that it was better than nothing, but at least fewer people starved.

Leaving it at that, for now. It's a debate that could go in a lot of different directions. I'm looking forward to any one of them.
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Kazz

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2008, 04:13:11 AM »

I was going to make a joke about apprenticing myself to a pot dealer and calling myself the local "cannaber" but then I realized that they were actually called "rope-makers."
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JDigital

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2008, 08:11:00 AM »

Why did they make pot illegal, anyway? Was it really all down to early 1900s newpaper stories on "cocainized niggers"?
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Arc

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2008, 08:13:07 AM »

It'd be nice if you knew the people you bought weed from weren't in some way responsible for fucking up a bunch of parkland or whatever.

It'd be nice if you know the people you bought weed from hadn't overcharged due to faked scarcity, actually sold you what they claimed was the correct bud, and didn't have a past history of illicit crimes. You'll just have to accept their word on it, all while looking over your shoulder.


In America these days the only way of keeping anything honest or respectable seems to be in keeping it illegal.

Nothing is jumping out at me that proves this to be the case.


In a way I still long for a cobbler in every neighborhood. Be damned if it costs more than a pair of Chinese Nikes, I'd rather know the fucker's name.

His name is _____. He's nice. Fuck knows from whom or where his stash was obtained from, let alone grown. Not asking for Nutritional Facts here, but dealers have a self-interest of deflecting anything away from what's important to their consumer.


Going to a microbrewery instead of picking up a case of Budweiser. Buying heirloom tomatoes instead of the agribusiness crap.

Which is the logical model a legalized marijuana industry would be expected to follow. Large multinationals; higher quality Mom & Pops.


I'm just not wild about the idea of mass market weed or anything else.

A majority of the nation is already dealing with such.


It's why British cuisine became so famously shit.

Outside of breakfast dishes, British cuisine has always been lower than fried dirt on the appetizing scale. The better example to evaluate is the American alcohol industry, which is made of large multinationals, and higher quality Mom & Pops.
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Thad

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2008, 10:33:20 AM »

In a way I still long for a cobbler in every neighborhood.

I was just thinking this yesterday, for the pragmatic reason that it is fucking difficult to get shoes that fit me.  I wear a 10 1/2 5E and had a nasty ingrown toenail recently so I think I'm going to try 6E next.

But then, that can be just another ugly kind of conspicuous consumption. It's a damn luxury. Going to a microbrewery instead of picking up a case of Budweiser. Buying heirloom tomatoes instead of the agribusiness crap.

What Arc said -- this is as good an analogy as any for where a theoretical pot industry would go.  I'm the kind of guy who won't drink Budweiser or eat American cheese.
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Brentai

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2008, 10:38:09 AM »

Me neither.

Until recently.

Oh God I need money.
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BŁge

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2008, 10:59:34 AM »

Outside of breakfast dishes, British cuisine has always been lower than fried dirt on the appetizing scale.

That's because dirt doesn't come in a can.
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Kazz

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2008, 11:06:07 AM »

I'm the kind of guy who won't drink Budweiser or eat American cheese.

Yes, quite.  Such peasant food is below us, wouldn't you say?
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SCD

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2008, 10:22:09 PM »

That's right.  You go and buy our beer and cheese now.  Cuz we're that much better

  :wuv:
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Zaratustra

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2008, 05:50:09 AM »

I suggest you take a single state - say california which is already halfway there, or maybe hawaii which nobody cares much about anyway - and legalize pot there. If it doesn't go to hell in say ten years, you can spread the love.

SCD

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2008, 07:19:37 AM »

Wasn't that already done in the election?  I believe there was a referendum which passed on a state in the north to decriminalize the stuff.

Doesn't work, as it's federal from what I recall.
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Arc

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2008, 08:42:09 AM »

:mahboi: That would be Massachusetts, our nation's answer to Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim.
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