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Author Topic: Legalize It!  (Read 13841 times)

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Bal

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #80 on: March 26, 2009, 11:06:34 PM »

I agree that potheads are more boring to interact with than damn near any other group of people, but that's no reason for it to be illegal.
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JDigital

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #81 on: March 27, 2009, 01:04:33 AM »

There's a real problem of getting reliable information on whether drugs are as dangerous as the law suggests. Who do you trust?

The politicians who make drug laws don't use drugs, at least not publically. Their information comes second and third hand at best, and relies largely on research by third parties. Their goals include raising their own personal profile and keeping important people happy at the cost of others. They're at least occasionally corrupt.

The scientists only know about drugs what they can verify using science, and even then only when paid. Even then, the results are only as public as public interest. The meaning of the results can and will be twisted by people who aren't scientists and have their own biases. Studies will frequently be funded by anti-drug campaigners to lend credence to their message, but not government groups (who assume they already know all the details) and certainly not drug users (who may not have funding and, as persons who break the law, cannot act openly). Again, because drug use is illegal, research is hampered, and can only take place with government consent, which only occurs when government has its own agenda or else accedes to someone's demands. Another setback is that science knows relatively little about the functioning of the brain, making any evidence that would exonerate drug users extremely costly and time-consuming to extract.

The police only enforce the law, even if they don't agree with it. They may have a skewed perspective as they are responsible for managing drug-related crime.

The average person knows little about drugs, and isn't qualified as an authority on the topic. If they do use drugs, they do so in secret, as it's illegal. This discourages information flow on the topic and encourages the public consensus to support prohibition.

The drug users themselves are close enough to drugs to understand them better than anyone. However, their authority is undermined at several points. They may be expected to lie to protect themselves. Opponents can claim that the effect of drugs on the mind renders the opinion of users meaningless - they become a person without authority, like a child or madman. The only set of universally trusted drug users are strongly reformed ex-users, and this group has a clear bias.
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Ted Belmont

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #82 on: March 27, 2009, 03:50:13 PM »

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Bongo Bill

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #83 on: March 27, 2009, 04:24:12 PM »

It's largely a question of what terminology the campaign/movement/thing is using. "Legalize marijuana" doesn't have the right ring to it, because the slogan has in it something that decent people don't use, at least theoretically. "End prohibition" might be better, as it's far more respectable, but then again, there are people who think that "prohibition" refers to the entire 1920s rather than any particular kind of policy.
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Kazz

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #84 on: March 28, 2009, 10:15:16 AM »

If they do use drugs, they do so in secret, as it's illegal.

 :wat:

Most kids I know won't shut the fuck up about pot.
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Brentai

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #85 on: March 28, 2009, 11:04:32 AM »

Not to a person in authority, Narc.
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Kazz

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #86 on: March 28, 2009, 11:20:42 AM »

All right, well, recreational pot isn't going to get legalized anytime soon (though medical marijuana is being approved in NH), so let's talk about something that can and definitely should happen soon.

I think the legal drinking age should be lowered to 18.

I'd give several reasons why but I'm eating.
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Alex

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #87 on: March 28, 2009, 11:29:40 AM »

I've you got covered Kazz.

The legal drinking age should be lowered to 18 because...

A) 21?  Seriously?  Does 3 years somehow make a huge difference, nevermind the fact that you're a legal adult for EVERYTHING ELSE (except renting a car) at 18.
B) Kazz said so.

Edit: All the people I knew who did recreational pot would constantly tell me it's okay and doesn't hurt anyone (except themselves when it comes to finding a job).  Well, of course you're going to think that!  You're doing it and trying to justify it!
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Brentai

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #88 on: March 28, 2009, 01:32:17 PM »

Bah, I think the shit's disgusting, but I don't think it's hurting anyone.  Plus if it were legalized people would stop bugging me to do it with them, probably.

The drinking age should stay 21 because if I had to fucking hide my liquor and stay out of bars for three years, you kids have to as well.
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Kazz

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #89 on: March 28, 2009, 01:34:34 PM »

But that's exactly the problem.

Kids are going to drink as soon as they get to college.  They're just fucking gonna.  Forcing them to do it in private, without anybody even remotely responsible around, is getting them fucking killed.
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Mongrel

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #90 on: March 28, 2009, 01:36:45 PM »

Bah, I think the shit's disgusting, but I don't think it's hurting anyone.  Plus if it were legalized people would stop bugging me to do it with them, probably.

The drinking age should stay 21 because if I had to fucking hide my liquor and stay out of bars for three years, you kids have to as well.

Only three years?

So... at 18, you just said "Hey I'm 18 now! Time to take up AL-CO-HOL DRINKING!"?
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Detonator

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #91 on: March 28, 2009, 01:46:08 PM »

Bah, I think the shit's disgusting, but I don't think it's hurting anyone.  Plus if it were legalized people would stop bugging me to do it with them, probably.

The drinking age should stay 21 because if I had to fucking hide my liquor and stay out of bars for three years, you kids have to as well.

Only three years?

So... at 18, you just said "Hey I'm 18 now! Time to take up AL-CO-HOL DRINKING!"?

Yes, it's called "going to college".
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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #92 on: March 28, 2009, 01:48:49 PM »

I think the debate isn't about getting Obama to change his mind, it's about opening up a public dialogue about something that most politicians just refuse to challenge the CW on.

I don't like that we have to take baby steps, but they're better than nothing.  The Obama Administration has announced it won't follow the Bush Administration's example of raiding farms that grow medical marijuana; that may be a baby step but it's a damned good one.  We've got politicians in Northern California seriously suggesting legalization -- that's more of a stunt than anything, but again, it's opening a dialogue.

There's also news this week about NY State getting rid of mandatory sentencing and focusing more on rehab.  (Of course, rehab is for actual addicts, which means hard drugs and not marijuana, but it signals a change in thinking about drugs in general.)
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Misha

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #93 on: March 28, 2009, 01:53:48 PM »

18? tons of people I know were drinking heavily well before then. Alchohol age restrictions do very little apart from occasionally allow the cops to totally get a bunch of people at a college party.
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Bal

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #94 on: March 28, 2009, 02:22:11 PM »

Drinking age is ridiculous just for it's inconsistency. ie Able to die for your country at 18, but not drink in it. Adulthood as a legal status is absolute in every other regard, so why not here?
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Mongrel

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #95 on: March 28, 2009, 02:39:37 PM »

Bah, I think the shit's disgusting, but I don't think it's hurting anyone.  Plus if it were legalized people would stop bugging me to do it with them, probably.

The drinking age should stay 21 because if I had to fucking hide my liquor and stay out of bars for three years, you kids have to as well.

Only three years?

So... at 18, you just said "Hey I'm 18 now! Time to take up AL-CO-HOL DRINKING!"?

Yes, it's called "going to college".

Well that's called "going to high school" here.

Seriously, most people up here begin drinking well before college. College is just where all the restraints come off.
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Mongrel

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #96 on: March 28, 2009, 02:42:32 PM »

Also, you guys should bring back alcohol prohibition so that we can return to an era of secluded mountain stills and comedic breakneck police chases played against a background of banjo music.

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Bal

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #97 on: March 28, 2009, 02:43:25 PM »

All we got out of that last time was Nascar. Never again.
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JDigital

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #98 on: March 28, 2009, 02:58:29 PM »

The drinking age is 18 in the UK and we're doing fine*. It's only 21 in the US as a compromise with prohibition.

Sure, we have a 3.5% alcoholism rate and spend 20bn a year to combat the effects of alcoholism, but it's all good.
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Brentai

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Re: Legalize It!
« Reply #99 on: March 28, 2009, 03:01:36 PM »

The drinking age is 18 in the UK and we're doing fine*. It's only 21 in the US as a compromise with MADD.

The drinking age was raised in 1984.  The law is younger than I am.
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