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[Kazz]

The question isn't "when do kids start drinking."  It's "when should we stop punishing them for it."  I think 18 is the most sensible spot.

Busting up college parties is a waste of time and tax money.  Wait until people actually get hurt.  Not every underage drinking situation is out of hand; my friends and I were nerds who'd get drunk and watch movies and play Sega Genesis RISK.  We didn't drive and we rarely raped each other.  Yet, cops came along one day and hauled us off.  (This was like 4 years ago.)

[JDigital]

It's a ridiculous misuse of police authority. Why give your kids the responsibility to choose their future, move a thousand miles away, study on their own, take heavy debt, then make them criminals for enjoying a beverage that their parents have demonstrated to be quite safe.

[Norondor]

Or, you know. Not.

[Kazz]

I think the fact that the little shits are more than boxer stains is proof that alcohol is a dangerous goddamn thing.

Doesn't mean three years makes a difference, though, except in encouraging the kids to hide from anyone with a shred of responsibility.

[Norondor]

Gives the 5-0 something to do apart from hassling decent people.

[Mongrel]

You guys have forgotten one thing: Students are scum. And a little hardship makes for cleverer, better people.

 

[Büge]

You guys have forgotten one thing: Students are scum. And a little hardship makes for cleverer, better scum.

[Mongrel]

Hey, evil masterminds have to have some kind of recruitment grounds for henchmen.

Thugs fished from gutters and dressed in matching black singlets with yellow 'M's on the front just don't cut it any more.

[Mongrel]

Amusing: Mexican drug lord thanks US for keeping drugs illegal.

Whether or not he'd thank them twice as much if drugs were legal is another question entirely.

[Thad]

The Reg: study shows illegalizing drugs in Britain has made the problem a hell of a lot worse and cost the citizenry a shitload of money for no good reason.

[JDigital]

I saw on the BBC News once that police chiefs in some major UK cities were advocating drug legalization, much for the same reasons.

[Mongrel]

You know, in the same way as Russia bit the bullet for the rest of the world and made the grand experiment to see if Communism would work out, sooner or later a major country is going to have to go no-holds-barred legalization-and-taxation, just so we can see what really happens.

[Bal]

That's kind of a bad analogy, given that Russia only ever got half way through the communist process. Also, would the Netherlands count? There are restrictions on where you can use drugs, but they might actually be less strict than those governing cigarette smoking in California

I guess it counts if compared to your analogy.

[Detonator]

You know, in the same way as Russia bit the bullet for the rest of the world and made the grand experiment to see if Communism would work out, sooner or later a major country is going to have to go no-holds-barred legalization-and-taxation, just so we can see what really happens.

Is Portugal considered major?

Yeah, it's not quite "no holds barred", but still...

Compared to the low to moderate levels of drug use in Portugal since decriminalization went into effect, the majority of EU states have drug use rates that are double and triple that of Portugal today, according to the report.

[Mongrel]

That's kind of a bad analogy, given that Russia only ever got half way through the communist process. Also, would the Netherlands count? There are restrictions on where you can use drugs, but they might actually be less strict than those governing cigarette smoking in California

I guess it counts if compared to your analogy.

Well, I was being kind of glib, but I might as well blabber on.

The Netherlands came to mind, but I think they don't count for several reasons: Some drugs were still illegal there and use was restricted to very defined areas. Also, the Netherlands is one of the more populous small countries, but it's still a smaller country.

But actually, to my mind, the most damning thing is that the Netherlands is a wealthy, often permissive country. They have had some trouble with drugs like any western nation, but nothing like the endemic issues faced in the US, Mexico, (to a degree) Canada, Britain or other places deep in a 'war on drugs' mentality. Any real experiment would need to be applied in those countries.

Will wider availaility over time lead to a decrease or increase in consumption? An increase or decrease in crime? Will decriminilization of consumption across the board allow for better treatement programs or will it just make things worse? I think that for any experiment to be useful, it will need to be much wider-ranging (for all or almost all drugs), in a larger country, and in one that already has a drug problem.

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Hm, that's certainly relevant. One thing that should not under any circumstances be overlooked is the increase in treatment as money was shifted away from enforcement and prosecution and over to recovery.

It's such a horrible cliche, but I honestly wonder just how much of the allure of drugs has to do with its forbidden nature.

[Kazz]

It's such a horrible cliche, but I honestly wonder just how much of the allure of drugs has to do with its forbidden nature.

To my mind, the first time is likely an act of rebellion.  The second time and each future time is just because the first time kicked so much ass.

There isn't a kid in America who doesn't hear from every authority figure in his life that drugs are bad, all the way through high school.  There also isn't a kid in America who doesn't resent those same authority figures, aside from retards and Bible-thumpers.

[Cthulhu-chan]

Well, the bible thumper do, too.  They just have the omnipresent fear and paranoia of JESUS watching their every move.  Hearing every word.  Sensing every thought.   

When I was a believer, I always hated that.

[Kazz]

I imagine being psychologically compelled to feel guilt and self-loathing and taught to endlessly seek acceptance from an invisible entity with whom you can't interact is somewhat troubling, yes.

[Mongrel]

Actually most 'first times' I've seen were the result of soft peer pressure. Whether or not that constitutes rebellion is another question entirely.

One notable thing that was omitted from the Portugal article was whether 'reduced incidence' meants that the number of average users declined or the average consumption per user went down.

I.E. Did it cause less people to use, or did it only cause existing users to cut down? I'm mean, it's a good result either way, just that the former is probably better.

[Kazz]

So those kids just wanted to "fit in" with whoever they thought was cool.

And that kid they thought was cool probably wanted to "fit in" with some other kid that he thought was cool.  Probably some older kid.

I bet you could trace this back to some kind of Pot Jesus.