Brontoforumus Archive

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:


This board has been fossilized.
You are reading an archive of Brontoforumus, a.k.a. The Worst Forums Ever, from 2008 to early 2014.  Registration and posting (for most members) has been disabled here to discourage spambots from taking over.  Old members can still log in to view boards, PMs, etc.

The new message board is at http://brontoforum.us.

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 ... 22

Author Topic: I Don't Do Windows  (Read 29868 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

patito

  • kodePunc Team
  • Tested
  • *
  • Karma: 14
  • Posts: 1181
    • View Profile
Re: I Don't Do Windows
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2008, 02:59:00 PM »

You can probably politely ignore Vista too, I suppose.
Logged

Bongo Bill

  • Dinosaurcerer
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65431
  • Posts: 5244
    • View Profile
Re: I Don't Do Windows
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2008, 03:26:56 PM »

I guess that Vista would be 6.1.
Logged
...but is it art?

Thad

  • Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone
  • Admin
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65394
  • Posts: 12111
    • View Profile
    • corporate-sellout.com
Re: I Don't Do Windows
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2008, 04:32:02 PM »

Which I guess is exactly the problem.
Logged

Thad

  • Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone
  • Admin
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65394
  • Posts: 12111
    • View Profile
    • corporate-sellout.com
Re: I Don't Do Windows
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2008, 11:51:33 AM »

CNet: Mac OS X seller (not Apple) disappears after reports.

This brings up the longstanding debate about whether Apple should make its OS available on generic hardware.  There are a lot of variables to consider; ten years ago, before Jobs brought it back from the brink, it seemed like a great idea, but now I'm thinking Apple's better off sticking to its own hardware.

Now, on the one hand, IBM floundered after opening its hardware, but on the other, Microsoft flourished.  Since Apple is both the hardware AND OS vendor, it's hard to say for sure where this would go.

HOWEVER.  Anyone who's ever used Motorola's short-lived line of Mac clones from the mid-1990's can testify that they were utter shit.  Trying to run OSX on crappy hardware is bound to degrade its reputation, and that dilemma gets worse if you start to think about driver support for generic hardware.  One of the biggest strengths of OSX is that it just works; it just works because it's designed to run on very few possible hardware configurations.  Contrast with, say, any Windows version prior to 98 or after 32-bit XP, or 1990's-era Linux; hardware support can be a real bastard, and it's not a fight Apple should get into unprepared.

So okay.  On the "Should Apple support foreign hardware?" issue, I'm in the "no" court.  But on the "Should savvy hackers be allowed to put OSX on foreign hardware" issue, well, you may notice a trend in which side I typically fall on in corporation-versus-consumer rights debates.  The way I see it, once you buy something, it's yours and you can do whatever you want with it; if it voids the warranty, that's your choice.

BUT.  What we're looking at here isn't just an individual installing a purchased-but-modded copy of OSX on purchased hardware, it's a company buying OSX, modding it, installing it on foreign hardware, and then reselling it.  So we're well into gray-area territory here; it's a pretty clear breach of the license, and the law's clearly on Apple's side, but of course it's still possible to debate the ethics of the issue and whether the law is just.

My guess is that the way this goes down is Psystar stops selling machines with OSX preinstalled, but continues to sell hardware advertising that it is capable of running a modded OSX.  This is liable to rile Apple, and actually including instructions on how to install OSX on the hardware is probably illegal under the DMCA, but simply acknowleding such a possibility exists should be nice and legal.  Linking to instructions on an external site might even be all right, and failing that, suggesting a Google search that will turn up useful results has to be allowable.

Of course, simply creating the barrier for entry that a user has to patch and then install the OS may be enough to keep Apple from caring.  That takes the market for the product from a niche of a niche (people who want generic Macs) to a niche of that niche of a niche (sufficiently skilled hackers who want generic Macs and are capable of patching the OS installer themselves).  I don't recall hearing about Apple going after the OSx86 project (though it could be that they have and have simply been unsuccessful); I think the key issue here is simply the license breach by a company reselling the product rather than an individual.
Logged

Mongrel

  • Emoticon Knight-Errant
  • kodePunc Team
  • Tested
  • *
  • Karma: -65340
  • Posts: 17029
    • View Profile
Re: I Don't Do Windows
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2008, 07:13:32 PM »

Another note on Vista vs. XP

Yeah... Good luck with that.
Logged

Thad

  • Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone
  • Admin
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65394
  • Posts: 12111
    • View Profile
    • corporate-sellout.com
Re: I Don't Do Windows
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2008, 10:07:15 PM »

The pragmatist in me thinks MS should definitely continue to support XP at least through the release of Windows 7.

The asshole in me thinks that anyone who's shocked that Microsoft wants more money from them after 7 years deserves what they get.

I AM interested in seeing how this plays out.  My guess is it will play out the same way it has for the last decade -- people will hold onto their existing OS until their computers die, and then buy new ones that ship with the new OS.

The difference is that computers are taking longer to die.  But hard drives are still as fragile as ever.
Logged

Thad

  • Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone
  • Admin
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65394
  • Posts: 12111
    • View Profile
    • corporate-sellout.com
Re: I Don't Do Windows
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2008, 11:11:07 AM »

More on the Psystar Mac clone story from AppleInsider:

Quote
Psystar Corporation, which this week began selling a series of Mac clone systems without Apple's blessing, is determined to challenge the Mac maker in court over the licensing terms for its Mac OS X operating system.

Speaking to InformationWeek, a Psystar employee identified only as Robert said his company sees Apple's end-user license agreement, which prohibits third-party installations of Mac OS X on non-Apple hardware, as a violation of antitrust laws.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out, but it's hard to use the "monopoly" argument on somebody with 5% of the market.  And thus far nobody's had any luck going after Apple in the portable music player market, where it really DOES have a monopoly.
Logged

Thad

  • Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone
  • Admin
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65394
  • Posts: 12111
    • View Profile
    • corporate-sellout.com
Re: I Don't Do Windows
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2008, 05:06:28 PM »

CNet covers some of the legal issues in the misleadingly-named article Forget the Courts Apple May Fight Mac Clones With Tech (which doesn't really mention the very obvious possibility of Apple patching its kernel to prevent its running on foreign hardware until the closing paragraphs).

Quote
And while Psystar may be violating Apple's end user license agreement, or EULA, by doing this, legally there's not much Apple can do about it, says Raj Abhyanker, a patent lawyer who used to write patents for Apple.

[...]

In terms of a deterrent, Abhyanker says suing another company for violating a contract doesn't even come close to a tort or patent infringement case.

"Those types of litigation ultimately have a lot more remedies for a plaintiff," he says. "But if you look at breach of contract, it's usually limited (depending on the state) to the amount of services or the amount of goods as subject to the contract. The maximum damage Apple would be able to claim is the price of Leopard -- actually, the OEM (original equipment manufacturer) price of Leopard, which might be a few dollars."

[...]

The problem, say lawyers contacted by Wired.com, is that breaking a EULA technically isn't illegal (it's not a signed or executable contract) and penalties tend to vary from state to state, making it very hard to stop.

"Generally speaking, these user agreements are much weaker than other forms of litigation," says Ted Man, a lawyer specializing in intellectual property and patents. "They're way more problematic, too. It's like going into an ER -- those incredibly broad license agreements they make you sign where you're basically signing away your life. Companies make them as broad as possible but there's no way to basically enforce them. It's a scare tactic, a way to say, hey, we're reserving all these rights," says Man.

Interesting stuff.  I've seen talk lately about how EULA's probably wouldn't hold up in court, and I'd like to see them challenged more often.
Logged

Thad

  • Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone
  • Admin
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65394
  • Posts: 12111
    • View Profile
    • corporate-sellout.com
Re: I Don't Do Windows
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2008, 10:57:29 PM »

XP SP3 out Tuesday the 29th; appears to be mostly incremental upgrades for security and compatibility.  I'm hoping for better 64-bit driver support; watch me hold my breath.

Also: this thread doesn't belong under Media; I am moving it to Real World.
Logged

Saturn

  • Tested
  • Karma: 3
  • Posts: 1670
    • View Profile
Re: I Don't Do Windows
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2008, 12:36:05 AM »

well, I certainly hope it doesn't break anything

(YES I KNOW THAT IS AN UNREALISTIC EXPECTATION)
Logged

Thad

  • Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone
  • Admin
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65394
  • Posts: 12111
    • View Profile
    • corporate-sellout.com
Re: I Don't Do Windows
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2008, 02:42:26 PM »

Logged

Royal☭

  • Supreme Court Judge President
  • Tested
  • Karma: 88
  • Posts: 6301
    • View Profile
Re: I Don't Do Windows
« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2008, 03:08:57 PM »

Hey, lookitthat

We all knew it would happen, I'm just surprised it took Microsoft this long.

Brentai

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnXYVlPgX_o
  • Admin
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65281
  • Posts: 17524
    • View Profile
Re: I Don't Do Windows
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2008, 04:04:44 PM »

It's maddening how much shit doesn't work because I have too much RAM.   ::(:
Logged

Kazz

  • Projekt Direktor
  • Admin
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65475
  • Posts: 6423
    • View Profile
Re: I Don't Do Windows
« Reply #33 on: June 30, 2008, 04:34:13 PM »

How much is too much?
Logged

Brentai

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnXYVlPgX_o
  • Admin
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65281
  • Posts: 17524
    • View Profile
Re: I Don't Do Windows
« Reply #34 on: June 30, 2008, 07:11:56 PM »

4 gigamuches.
Logged

Thad

  • Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone
  • Admin
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65394
  • Posts: 12111
    • View Profile
    • corporate-sellout.com
Re: I Don't Do Windows
« Reply #35 on: July 15, 2008, 10:32:35 PM »

(This might work better in the copyright thread, but seeing as this is where I brought up the story before...)

NYT: Apple Sues Mac Clone Maker Psystar

Looks like the patent lawyer in the article I quoted above was wrong: Apple IS suing for EULA violation, not just copyright.

I am nervous about this.  I would love to see the EULA restriction overturned and Apple told that they can't tell people what machines they're allowed to install software on, but I've seen our judicial system make terrible decisions in much less ambiguous cases.
Logged

Thad

  • Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone
  • Admin
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65394
  • Posts: 12111
    • View Profile
    • corporate-sellout.com
Re: I Don't Do Windows
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2008, 11:16:01 PM »

PC Magazine: Apple's now in third place in US PC sales.  It's a distant third -- HP and Dell are selling about three and four times as many machines, respectively -- but it's still pretty significant.

I think this says a lot about the iPod and iPhone's crossover appeal, as well as general dissatisfaction with Vista.  In the scheme of things, this is barely a crack in MS's armor, but it'll be interesting to see if the trend continues.
Logged

sei

  • Tested
  • Karma: 25
  • Posts: 2085
    • View Profile
Re: I Don't Do Windows
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2008, 11:37:02 PM »

Apple recently gained some more viability as a development platform.

I'm not into having to buy their fucking hardware at huge cost.  Being able to dual boot Windows or something else on one of their machines is a plus, but I think I'd sooner just use Windows and dual-boot to Linux.
Logged

Kayin

  • Akzidenz Grotesk
  • Tested
  • Karma: 30
  • Posts: 1215
    • View Profile
    • I Wanna Be The Guy
Re: I Don't Do Windows
« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2008, 10:05:34 AM »

Being able to dual boot Windows or something else on one of their machines is a plus, but I think I'd sooner just use Windows and dual-boot to Linux.

This has always been my view of OSX. Theres a lot of good things to say about it and about 3/4ths of them come from being pretty much BSD at heart.

Personally I've never liked rounded corners and safety features designed to protect me from my self. I mean, sure, it's pretty and has great features for making a website about your dog and stuff, but who cares, besides the dog website crowd? I want all that nice, free, nerd software and I wanna be able to download and install it easily from the command line. :3
Logged

Brentai

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnXYVlPgX_o
  • Admin
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65281
  • Posts: 17524
    • View Profile
Re: I Don't Do Windows
« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2008, 11:10:23 PM »

So if Vista Business is $199, and Vista Ultimate is $219, how the fuck does an upgrade from Business to Ultimate come out to be $139?
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 ... 22