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Author Topic: Street Fighter 4.  (Read 28325 times)

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François

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Re: Street Fighter 4.
« Reply #80 on: October 04, 2009, 06:54:46 AM »

Alright, so. I've been playing this with a Dual Shock 2 for a while, then I went and bought this cheap joystick. The thing is, I've started feeling limited by the pad, and I've always wanted to try a stick, but I didn't want to spend like a hundred dollars on something I wasn't even sure I'd like at all.

The prospects are somewhat good so far, but there's something that bugs me.

On the joystick I bought, there are like, four arcs that register as up, down, left or right, but only four points that register as diagonals. And it's kind of a problem. I have trouble jumping forwards and backwards, and end up jumping up or walking instead.

Now what I'm wondering is, is this because my joystick is a 20$ Hong Kong POS, or are all sticks that way? Because I kind of expected that it should detect 8 arcs of equal size instead. This is important because if the way my current stick works is the way they all work, then I'm going to train and get better at it, but if the problem is that my stick has AIDS then I won't bother until I can afford a healthy one.
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Doom

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Re: Street Fighter 4.
« Reply #81 on: October 04, 2009, 07:43:21 AM »

Well you see, the answer to that is obviousl-

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Kayin

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Re: Street Fighter 4.
« Reply #82 on: October 04, 2009, 12:23:34 PM »

Your stick probably has aids. Something like an EX2 or a Fightstick would serve you much better for under 100 dollars (I'd suggest a fightstick because they are easy to service and upgrade).

Anyways what you said is slightly true.



Okay this is a vague look at the insides of a sanwa jlf joystick. The Orange is the diagonal zone and the blue is the 'straight' zone.  I think I did the microswitrches a bit too large so the blue area is smaller then it should be but whatever (hitting a straight direction is never a problem). Anyways while the actual zones should be even, the spot to hit a diagonal perfectly *is* much smaller (half?).

The thing to keep in mind is you don't have to hit it perfectly to jump forward. You need to change your approach. When aiming for a diagonal jump, you want to hit up last. When I jump I basically aim more forward then up because when I hit the gate I'll slide into upfoward. This is an unconcious thing that I never really even had to learn, but if you actively try and do it, it might help with your POS stick. Honestly hitting diagonals has never been a problem with me, and I imagine you wouldn't have a problem either on a good stick. Your stick probably magnifies this little nuance though to an obnoxious degree.
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Catloaf

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Re: Street Fighter 4.
« Reply #83 on: October 04, 2009, 12:48:43 PM »

This has reminded me of how I hate square-gated joysticks.  The perfect fighter joystick for me is has an octagon shape with switches at every corner--Four switches might be cheaper, but the extra inputs specifically for diagonals feel better and allow for all eight directions to have an perfectly equal 45 degrees to hit in.  Further more an octagon allows for equal throw distance to all directions and allows much smoother motion as one executes a quarter/semi/full/double circle move.

The lack of such sticks is a good portion of why I'm not very good at/don't play a lot of fighters.
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Envy

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Re: Street Fighter 4.
« Reply #84 on: October 04, 2009, 01:18:30 PM »

You can mod a stick quite easily cat to be octagon if you so wish. I'm sure kayin or I could help you. I'm about finished with mine, and as much as I like octo I really love square now. It took alot of getting used to but the time spent getting used to square is worth it.
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Kayin

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Re: Street Fighter 4.
« Reply #85 on: October 04, 2009, 01:37:46 PM »

Yeah I personally think sqaure is innately better, but octo just seems more sensible. Quad switches just seem unnecessary to me too. You practically get th same results with the octo gate (if you're in the notch, you have diagonal).

Anyways yeah you can do that mod and yeah, it is super easy (literally it's opening up your stick, pressing on some tabs, popping the gate off and snapping another one on). But to go on why square is better, theres a few things to keep in mind.

1) You do not have to hit the gate much when you play. The expectation that you should drag your stick along the gates is a bad one. Also the rubbing against the gate is more beneficial when you DO do it on a square gate then on an octo.

2) Square makes diagonals easier to hit. In fact, it makes them the EASIEST to hit.

3) Square makes complex and exact inputs easier and reduces the potential active areas on the stick.


So one of the first things that make square great is blocking. When trying to quickly hit down back on an octo gate you can often catch down or forward.  Quickly locking into  diagonals is very very good.

Or lets take Guile's (retarded) super motion. db, df, db any up. On a square gate you can just basically draw a right triangle, sliding across the gates to do it quickly. Conversely the 360 (which many people assume octos are good for) can be done super fast on square gates exactly because they an be done without ever hitting the gate. You just spin your hand and hit a button. Or lets take a dragon punch.

On an octo you hit forward and then down, but then locking into the diagonal is tricker. you ust can't  go straight across (you can DP on a square by drawing a 'Z' when starting from neutral), you have to lift out of the gate and slide up to the next point.

In the end I am pretty convinced that they're flat out better, though preference can still override betterness (which is why some guys like top SF player John Choi still plays on American parts). I think for most people though, learning to use a square gate would pay off.
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François

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Re: Street Fighter 4.
« Reply #86 on: October 04, 2009, 01:53:13 PM »

When aiming for a diagonal jump, you want to hit up last. When I jump I basically aim more forward then up because when I hit the gate I'll slide into upfoward.

Ooooh, that makes a lot of sense. I didn't think of it that way. Thanks.

I can already tell this is the way to go if I want to get any better at fighting games; there's a feeling of precision that I now realize was always kind of fudged on a pad. But man, it feels like I've been in a car accident and twisted my spine and now I gotta learn to walk again even though my conscious brain is still aware of the motions involved.

...to the extent that choosing to learn a new control method for video games is similar to a painful, life-altering tragedy. :D
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Kayin

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Re: Street Fighter 4.
« Reply #87 on: October 04, 2009, 05:11:33 PM »

Dabbling helps. Patito made a pretty smooth transition and even though he says he doesn't feel perfect yet, his play is still good. It helped that he's dabbled with sticks though for awhile. Learning a new character also helps. When you do that you don't have the same execution expectations.
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Saturn

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Re: Street Fighter 4.
« Reply #88 on: October 04, 2009, 06:01:16 PM »

its really down to getting that muscle memory going.
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François

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Re: Street Fighter 4.
« Reply #89 on: October 05, 2009, 04:54:14 PM »

Oh my God, using Rose to cause hadoken-spamming Akumatards to repeatedly kill themselves is worth the game's price by itself. They should rename it Rose vs Akuma: IQ Fighter 2009.

HURR I DONT GET IT WHY MY FIREBALL HURT ME

OH I KNOW HOW FIX IT

MORE FIREBALL
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Kayin

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Re: Street Fighter 4.
« Reply #90 on: October 06, 2009, 12:41:19 AM »

I remember a friend bitching about Rose's reflect being near useless and the timing being way to strict.

Now that people know the game it's so easy-breezy and hilarious The first trick to spamming fireballs is to do it intelligently, not hurl them out like a doofus. Lack of pattern recognition also doesn't help. Not realizing when your opponent tends to jump over fireballs is one thing... Not noticing that you're beaning your self over and over again with your own fireballs is another thing entirely.

:( It's sad how bad a lot of players are.
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Kazz

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Re: Street Fighter 4.
« Reply #91 on: October 06, 2009, 11:00:12 AM »

WHEN ARE THEY ADDING MAKOTO
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Büge

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Re: Street Fighter 4.
« Reply #92 on: October 06, 2009, 11:44:42 AM »

In Super Street Fighter 4 , maybe?
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Kayin

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Re: Street Fighter 4.
« Reply #93 on: October 06, 2009, 11:51:57 AM »

Makoto was placed as a character in some leaked information, but I think, based on what Ono has been saying, that the list was more 'characters up for consideration'

Makoto and Dudley were the only two characters that made me tolerate 3S, so I hope they make it in.
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James Edward Smith

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Re: Street Fighter 4.
« Reply #94 on: October 06, 2009, 01:34:47 PM »

You didn't like Elena or Hugo?
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Alex

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Re: Street Fighter 4.
« Reply #95 on: October 06, 2009, 08:31:17 PM »

Q is where that shit is at (even if I suck with him).

Personally, I thought it ought to be Alex (because he's the SF3 main character) and Dudley (because man, I want to pit him against Balrog).  That and I don't care much for Ibuki while the rest of the interest is crazy go nuts about her (presumably because she has a vagina).
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François

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Re: Street Fighter 4.
« Reply #96 on: October 06, 2009, 09:35:05 PM »

I liked Twelve. Gimped as he was, he was fun to play. I mained Urien, Elena and Necro though. Man, I miss Urien. I got all giddy when I realized his crouching hp showed up in IV. :D

:( It's sad how bad a lot of players are.

I'll be the first to admit I'm not very good. I have trouble performing any but the simplest combos, I tend to clumsily turtle up under competent pressure, and my brain has some weird ideas about timing sometimes. (The main reason I want to switch to a stick is to try and undo years and years of bad habits.) But I use what I have as smartly as I can. I try to remain unpredictable and fluid, to have an awareness of my opponent's state of mind and probable actions. I'll input a Soul Throw while my opponent still has his feet on the ground and he'll jump into it as if on cue.

Yesterday I fought a Rufus guy six times in a row. He won a single BP from me every time. He clearly knew his stuff, and he was schooling me without breaking a sweat, but I did manage to win a single round, with Vega, almost perfectly. The dude sent me a message that simply contained ":o". I was out of his league and we both knew it, but I did surprise him.

On the other hand you have the kind of player who tools about on the character screen, hangs over Ryu for a while, then slowly moves over to, say, Balrog, but as soon as you select your guy, zzzzzzip he instantly flies over to Akuma. And then  it's fireballs up the wazoo. It's like, where does that get you? It's not even cheating, it's just stupid. You fight him, and beat him, and surprise: he has 4-digit BP. How many newbies did he cheese with his fireballs to get there?

Man, I don't even know what I'm trying to say anymore. Maybe it's that I'm bad, but compared to some, it's a good kind of bad.
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Envy

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Re: Street Fighter 4.
« Reply #97 on: October 06, 2009, 09:44:22 PM »

:luv::360 motions are for real men. I laugh at your fireballs.
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François

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Re: Street Fighter 4.
« Reply #98 on: October 13, 2009, 11:26:15 AM »

So my brother just bought me a Fightstick. :8D:

It's like a box of magic. It turns out lots of the stuff I thought I just had to get used to and practice was entirely caused by my previous stick being a cheap POS.

Hilariously, I can put my crappy stick on top of my new stick and it barely covers up the area occupied by the eight face buttons. I don't know how I ever thought that was even remotely acceptable.
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Kayin

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Re: Street Fighter 4.
« Reply #99 on: October 13, 2009, 12:11:14 PM »

 :hi5:
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