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Author Topic: MTG  (Read 80107 times)

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jsnlxndrlv

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Re: MTG
« Reply #100 on: May 30, 2009, 08:43:33 PM »

They're also renaming the removed-from-the-game zone, but no one knows what asinine name is going to be applied to that.

Seems like I recall somebody claiming insider knowledge announced it was "exile".  So Swords to Plowshares would read "Exile target creature. That creature's controller gains life equal to its power".
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Mongrel

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Re: MTG
« Reply #101 on: May 30, 2009, 08:45:17 PM »

I don't know about that... another supposedly "inside source" claimed it would be called the void.

Basically, nothing's confirmed yet.

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Mongrel

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Re: MTG
« Reply #102 on: September 24, 2009, 07:36:31 AM »

So the Zendikar prerelease is saturday and as of this morning the set's been fully spoiled (nothing unusual about any of that of course).

So in the end it turned out that Zendikar is 'World of Greyhawk: The MTG set', only even dumber than that sounds.
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Kazz

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Re: MTG
« Reply #103 on: September 24, 2009, 08:14:31 AM »

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Büge

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Re: MTG
« Reply #104 on: September 24, 2009, 11:23:35 AM »

So they're not really being subtle about lifting from Yu-gi-oh anymore.

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Friday

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Re: MTG
« Reply #105 on: September 24, 2009, 11:39:29 AM »

OH NO!
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Zaratustra

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Re: MTG
« Reply #106 on: September 24, 2009, 11:45:11 AM »

Lady Duke

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Re: MTG
« Reply #107 on: September 24, 2009, 12:42:12 PM »

Fuck everyone going to that release.  Fuck you all sideways.
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Mongrel

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Re: MTG
« Reply #108 on: September 25, 2009, 03:14:18 AM »

So uh...

It's been confirmed that Wizards has randomly inserted old card stock they had in storage into Zendikar packs. These are not reprints, just old cards they still had copies of.

Why is the fact that they are not reprints important? Well, that's because the fact that these are not technically reprints is how they are getting around the 'Reserve List', which is a long list of expensive cards they made many years ago that they promised they would never reprint as sort of an unofficial contract between the themselves and the secondary market (i.e. card shops & dealers) to prevent them from wanting to hang WotC by their entrails.

Why do they need to play such hairsplitting games just to reprint older cards?

Because they're putting shit like original dual lands, Ancestral Recall, Black Lotus and the like in Zendikar boosters. The chances of pulling one of these cards at random is said to be quite rare, perhaps one per case or worse, with a value of anywhere from $40 to... possibly $10000 if they put any beta cards in?

It's official. I'm not playing a game anymore, I'm playing a lottery. Or Yu-Gi-Oh. Or both.
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Kashan

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Re: MTG
« Reply #109 on: September 25, 2009, 04:14:56 AM »

So uh...

It's been confirmed that Wizards has randomly inserted old card stock they had in storage. These are not reprints, just old cards they still had copies of.

Why is the fact that they are not reprints important? Well, that's because the fact that these are not technically reprints is how they are getting around the 'Reserve List', which is a long list of expensive cards they made many years ago that they promised they would never reprint as sort of an unofficial contract between the themselves and the secondary market (i.e. card shops & dealers) to prevent them from wanting to hang WotC by their entrails.

Why do they need to play such hairsplitting games just to reprint older cards?

Because they're putting shit like original dual lands, Ancestral Recall, Black Lotus and the like in Zendikar boosters. The chances of pulling one of these cards at random is said to be quite rare, perhaps one per case or worse, with a value of anywhere from $40 to... possibly $10000 if they put any beta cards in?

It's official. I'm not playing a game anymore, I'm playing a lottery. Or Yu-Gi-Oh. Or both.

Whatever, fuck the secondary market. It might be nice if type 1 was more than the same 200 players playing for all of eternity.
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Kazz

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Re: MTG
« Reply #110 on: September 25, 2009, 06:26:01 AM »

Heheheh.

If that's true (it sounds like rumor mill garbage to me), I love Wizards.  They know how to sell boxes.
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Mongrel

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Re: MTG
« Reply #111 on: September 25, 2009, 06:49:56 AM »

Well, overall I'm sorta-neutral on the issue.

I own all the cards required for Type 1 and have for years. I actually think that making older cards available to newer players is fine and that the quantities that are coming out in this set are small enough that they won't really affect the prices of any of the older cards much if at all. If we just consider Zendikar on its own and ignore everything else, this is definitely a net gain for players and a win-win situation for everyone.

On the other hand, not all is well here. First we had bigger and bigger set sizes, but that burned folks out fast, so they reduced set sizes. Then we also had an increase in the number of sets per year, people burned out on that too and they said they'd stop, but then they decided to put new cards in the Core Set, making it a de facto fourth expansion set, rather than the starting point for new players it was intended to be. Then there's been the more recent deluge of promo decks (X vs Y decks, From The vault box sets, etc.) to try and milk the game’s idle rich, and of course, the introduction of Mythic rares. Hell they even “reprinted” Mana Drain (for Magic Online), something they once said would only happen if a bus ran over R&D. Now we have the ultimate expression of all this: random Black Lotuses in packs.

In spite of it all, the average 'lifespan' of MTG players has greatly decreased over the years rather than increased (with burnout being a factor acknowledged by even Wizards themselves) and as a result we've stated to fall into a vicious cycle where recent sets have really favoured newer players with dumbed-down cards and the removal of a *LOT* of the 'less fun' strategies (i.e. too complicated or disciplined for a 13 year old). They've pushed some awful blocks recently, with just a few 'marquee cards' scattered throughout to sell the set to experienced players. Unfortunately if they're just trying to make Type 2 slower or simpler, it's not working because the few 'good' cards they've been printing as exceptions have basically dominated the very narrow field that remains (for a great example, see the last two years of Type two being dominated by Faerie decks, mostly on the back of two cards: Bitterblossom and Cryptic Command). So instead we get a bland and anemic Type 2 metagame.

So far Zendikar has been panned, continuing the trend. Allies are a boring failure, and most of the Trap cards (which actually have nothing to do with YuGiOh's trap cards) and Quests have impractical triggers conditions. This set is loaded with cards that can all-too-easily wind up as a frustratingly dead draw in a real game. If the new Wrath of God and enemy-coloured fetchlands (which have pretty much nothing to do with Zendikar) are removed from the equation, then the set pretty much comprises broken Lotus Cobra, maybe a half-dozen rares playable in anything outside of Type 2, and a pile of dog shit. Now, the usual retards are screaming "CASH GRAB!!!!" as they do when Wizards does... anything, but for a change, I’m finding it more and more difficult to disagree.

Let's say this is a "cash grab", well what of it? Why does a company flog what you might call "irreplaceable capital"? There are a number of reasons. Some are harmless but some reek of desperation. Perhaps if any of the last couple of sets had been better, I'd have less misgivings, but Wizards seems intent on pursuing inherently short-term strategies, while letting basic card design suffer. Worse yet, no one knows if these short-term strategies are sustainable or whether we're just trapped in a vicious cycle. There is some serious grumbling from players about the cost of ALL formats (not just the older stuff).

I know I'm posting a giant word train, so the simplest way I can sum it up is: In the last several years, card design has started to take a backseat to financial considerations that are having a direct impact on newer sets. I’m not stupid, financial concerns were always important and have affected design in a number of ways over the years, but they are now starting to override the basic playable qualities of the game.

I know as someone who’s played for 16 years, my demographic is vanishingly small, so I’d never blame Wizards for not catering to me, but I don’t want them to self-immolate, dammit!

****

As for Kashan’s exact comment, I can't really agree. Wizards could do a lot more to support real Type 1 play by sanctioning Type 1 events that allow proxies, rather than play with this crackhead lottery nonsense. Also, Wizards is much more comfortable with supporting Legacy (the overhauled Type 1.5) as it's preferred 'eternal/vintage' format, since they view it as a much more balanced environment (which is a pretty fair view).

And saying 'fuck the secondary market' is easy if you're a player with no Type 1 cards, but not so easy if you're a major dealer who invested in powerful Type 1 staples to provide legtimacy to a growing business. The reason the Reserve List was created in the first place was not because Wizards really had an issue with the cards on the list (though they did with some of them), but because it acted as a sort of treaty, or agreement with the dealer and shop network not to randomly fuck them over. The practical effects of these "not-reprints" will be small, but it will cause an erosion in the cooperation between Wizards and their own dealer network. Whether this breakdown in relations will be worth the cash boost remains to be seen.

The important thing here is that the relationship between Wizards and its dealer network should be more important than its relationship with the relatively small base of Type 1 players.
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Kazz

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Re: MTG
« Reply #112 on: September 25, 2009, 06:56:30 AM »

How about a new, like, Type 1.75, where only cards from 2001 on are allowed.

i could do ok in that.
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Mongrel

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Re: MTG
« Reply #113 on: September 25, 2009, 07:04:38 AM »

How about a new, like, Type 1.75, where only cards from 2001 on are allowed.

i could do ok in that.

Extended format kind of fits that. Extended is basically the long version of Type 2, with the last five or six years worth of sets being legal. I forget exactly how many years it is, but as of Zendikar's release, Onslaught block rotates out of Extended, making the oldest Extended-legal block Mirrodin block. The oldest block in Extended rotates out every year, just like Type 2 (this is a more recent change. Extended used to rotate out in 3-year chunks).

Conveniently, Extended is the 2nd most heavily played tournament format after Type 2 (or 'Standard' as it's called by the kids).

EDIT: Hmmm...

Extended-legal sets as of next friday:

Mirrodin block
Kamigawa Weeaboo block
Ravnica block
Time Spiral block
Lorwyn/Shadowmoor block (two-set block, MY ASS)
Alara block
Zendikar

So, technically 6+ years?
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Büge

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Re: MTG
« Reply #114 on: September 25, 2009, 07:52:13 AM »

M11: Enchantment cards are discontinued under the notion that they are redundant and replaced with coloured artifacts.

M12: After a disastrous Pro-Tour event, all blue cards are put on the Restricted list.

M13: The one-land-per-turn rule is rescinded. Designers claim it makes the game "too slow."

M14: The Hasbro-Disney/Marvel merger sees the first proprietary cards printed. Donaldpool decks sweep the tournament scene.
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Mongrel

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Re: MTG
« Reply #115 on: September 25, 2009, 08:27:24 AM »

M12: After a disastrous Pro-Tour event, all blue cards are put on the Restricted list.

Isn't this what's already happened? Repeatedly? 

Ignoring Wizards current attempts to do their damnedest to gut blue...
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Classic

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Re: MTG
« Reply #116 on: September 25, 2009, 09:03:17 AM »

Hasn't blue being a bit too powerful been a problem since before the first printing?
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Mongrel

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Re: MTG
« Reply #117 on: September 25, 2009, 10:25:10 AM »

Hasn't blue being a bit too powerful been a problem since before the first printing?

Well, for the past year and a half (arguably two and a half years), Wizards has rather brutally and blatantly cut down on Blue's power levels. Way out of league with any problems it might be causing. Blue being overpowered has been a joke for far longer than its been a fact (the last time Blue actually had an unfair advantage was during Urza's Saga block... over a decade ago).

I don't have a problem with this if it's temporary (Wizards has this odd idea that there always needs to be a colour on the 'outs'), but the thought of never seeing a decently useful counterspell or instant-speed draw spell ever again is kind of depressing.

I don't think most folks are asking for Force of Will or Ancestral Recall to be reprinted (oh wait Wizards IS "reprinting" Ancestral! LOLZORZ!), I just want something like Mana Leak or Brainstorm... or something else that's cool and different.
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jsnlxndrlv

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Re: MTG
« Reply #118 on: September 26, 2009, 09:19:00 AM »

Well, for the past year and a half (arguably two and a half years), Wizards has rather brutally and blatantly cut down on Blue's power levels. Way out of league with any problems it might be causing. Blue being overpowered has been a joke for far longer than its been a fact (the last time Blue actually had an unfair advantage was during Urza's Saga block... over a decade ago).

Not sure I agree with this. Certainly, that's how long Cancel has been ubiquitous, and some people would take that as proof that Wizards wants to give blue the shaft. I think it's more complicated than that.

First, broken blue spells become more format-defining that broken spells of other colors. Other colors will have their overpowered creatures now and again, but the handy thing about creatures is that they generally die to removal. Tarmogoyf may have left a big impression when it was Standard-legal, but pretty much every deck and color had a way of dealing with it; it was just a question of whether those answers arrived soon enough to matter. Blue's bomb spells are usually instants, and while black or white might have disruption or other preventive measures in place, the best way to answer Force of Will is with a Force of Will of your own. Even broken enchantments aren't as bad, since you can at least get answers in green OR white.

Then there's the issue of archetypes. Most colors and maybe half the color combinations can come up with a reasonably successful aggro deck. Has there been a successful control deck in Standard that didn't involve blue since Time Spiral? I think Wizards has been trying to deemphasize blue's controlling aspects for a while to let other colors get involved in control--but blue wasn't going to leave the picture as long as Lorwyn was still in rotation. Meanwhile, though, blue's been getting pushed in other directions: mill as a combo (Time Sieve/Jace) or aggro (Sanity Grinding) strategy has never been as strong as it has been for the past few months, and merfolk had some success as an aggressor there for a while.

So really, I don't think WotC is punishing blue so much as it's trying to shift blue's identity, if only for a while. I think the strength of fairies really burned a lot of people. Bitterblossom and Cryptic Command were the obvious villains, yes, but since most of the relevant creatures had flash, the deck got to enjoy the board position of an aggro deck while playing like control. It was obscene, and it wouldn't surprise me if cascade was just as much a response as Great Sable Stag was.

Blue will get back to its old familiar tricks; Lightning Bolt's return is proof. It's just a question of when.
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Friday

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Re: MTG
« Reply #119 on: September 26, 2009, 09:37:00 AM »

Quote
Lightning Bolt's return is proof.

Wait. They reprinted lightning bolt?
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