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Author Topic: MTG  (Read 79995 times)

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Koah

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Re: What makes a board like this thrive?
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2009, 09:53:10 PM »

So how about that Ice Cauldron?

Well obviously Ashcoat is a much better card generally, but that's not the same as strictly better in all circumstances.  Which is the point.  And the rules define Flash saying "Flash is a static

:blahblahblah: Cut his mic!
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Mongrel

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Re: MTG
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2009, 10:00:12 PM »

Praise the fucking lord and pass the goddamned ammunition.
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jsnlxndrlv

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Re: What makes a board like this thrive?
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2009, 10:07:12 PM »

Guys.  ::(:

"Which card is strictly better" is irrelevant.  Ashcoat is objectively better than Grizzlies are, but Grizzlies are superior if you have Muraganda Petroglyphs.  Based on these facts, you can either accept or reject the idea that one card can be strictly superior to another--but the argument itself doesn't get anybody anywhere.  It's like wondering whether the chicken or egg came first; the likelihood that you'll get anything useful from the debate is so small as to render the entire discussion a waste of time.
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Zaratustra

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Re: MTG
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2009, 10:46:09 PM »

actually even the Magic developers disconsider special cases like the Petroglyphs and XXXX when talking about 'strictly better', because they simply don't matter 99% of the time.

see the XXXX is there because I couldn't find another card that benefits from weaker creatures

Kazz

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Re: MTG
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2009, 10:57:23 PM »

god damn it, i was wondering where that post went

it apparently was split into the gayest discussion in the history of message boards

i hate every last one of you
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Zaratustra

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Re: MTG
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2009, 11:03:16 PM »

BŁge

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Re: MTG
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2009, 07:59:27 AM »

I think this is the third thread on Magic The Gathering. I'd say that qualifies for a sticky.
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MadMAxJr

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Re: MTG
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2009, 08:10:27 AM »

The real game is played by WotC marketing.  I tap five dollars and counter your "I am no longer interested, because X set is broken." using "Here is a new card that is similar to a card in a set you liked years ago so we can pull you back in."

Slivers should be back by 2012.
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Mongrel

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Re: MTG
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2009, 08:29:53 AM »

 :facepalm:
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King Klown

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Re: MTG
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2009, 04:36:44 PM »

My sliver deck is cool every 8 years.
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BŁge

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Re: MTG
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2009, 07:44:05 PM »

WotC is trying to reel me back in with their "Divine vs. Demonic" decks. I'm too smart for 'em though. I plan to blow all my money on food and rent.

alsoireadarumourthattheyaregettingridofmanaburn
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MadMAxJr

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Re: MTG
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2009, 08:39:12 PM »

I think MTG at this point is all about 'So how can we fuck with the mechanics in a way that requires you be a programmer to figure out the mechanic?'

Honestly I was happy when they finally made a 'no really your turn is over' card where you empty the stack, empty mana pools, and end the turn.
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Mongrel

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Re: MTG
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2009, 03:08:47 AM »

They made a thing and it works great.

The problem is that their business model is predicated on perpetual and constant change. So they keep looking for things to fuck with.

That and in the last five years or so, they have really started to impose a view of how the game 'should' be played, rather than simply making cards and seing what happens (other than testing for balance). 
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King Klown

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Re: MTG
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2009, 04:44:47 AM »

That and in the last five years or so, they have really started to impose a view of how the game 'should' be played, rather than simply making cards and seing what happens (other than testing for balance). 

I'm trying to put Ravager decks into this somewhere, mainly because they still piss me off after so many years.  :enraged:

What is the meta-game lookin' like now days? Buge mentioned something about Demonic vs Divine.  :wat:

Which sounds  :perfect:
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jsnlxndrlv

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Re: MTG
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2009, 06:39:15 AM »

That and in the last five years or so, they have really started to impose a view of how the game 'should' be played, rather than simply making cards and seing what happens (other than testing for balance). 

It's an interesting idea, but I don't see much evidence of it--beyond a certain level of, I don't know, "land destruction is unfun, so we don't make solutions that are strong enough to base an entire deck around", or "faerie decks are getting too strong, so we're printing a dozen answers in Conflux". All of which has been going on for a long time.

Right now they're making a big push for new player acquisition and strengthening the core sets, so instead of 11th Edition we're getting "Magic 2010", with the idea that each core set is named after the first full year it'll be legal in.  Yearly core sets, too, and in addition to being black bordered, they're doing both reprints and new cards, with an emphasis on classic fantasy flavor the sets have lacked since, eh, maybe Revised.
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Mongrel

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Re: MTG
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2009, 10:25:55 AM »

That and in the last five years or so, they have really started to impose a view of how the game 'should' be played, rather than simply making cards and seing what happens (other than testing for balance). 

It's an interesting idea, but I don't see much evidence of it--beyond a certain level of, I don't know, "land destruction is unfun, so we don't make solutions that are strong enough to base an entire deck around", or "faerie decks are getting too strong, so we're printing a dozen answers in Conflux". All of which has been going on for a long time.

Right now they're making a big push for new player acquisition and strengthening the core sets, so instead of 11th Edition we're getting "Magic 2010", with the idea that each core set is named after the first full year it'll be legal in.  Yearly core sets, too, and in addition to being black bordered, they're doing both reprints and new cards, with an emphasis on classic fantasy flavor the sets have lacked since, eh, maybe Revised.

I'll believe the fantasy feel when it's there. For my money the game has been too carefully manufactured for some time ever regain any real flavour like it used to have. Planeswalkers have been almost pure marketing in terms of their storyline and there's way too much 'mage-punk' or D&D anyway - and that's in the years when they don't do ANOTHER post-apocalyptic storyline. Lorwyn was a kind of ham-handed attempt to return to a 'classic fantasy' setting, but it just rang so hollow.

In the plus category, the overall quality of work in the paintings is probably at an all-time high.

But as far as manipulation of the environment, I mean subtler stuff. A good example is their "we want the game to be more about creature combat" attitude, so there's been a subtle power creep in creature strength in that time*. This is in addition to a very light reduction in instant-speed creature removal and the longstanding decine of countermagic/draw engines ("un-fun").

I could give a rat's ass about the core set, new cards or no. It's just another expansion set now, only we're expected to participate in the fiction that this is not the case.

*If you haven't noticed that, with stuff like a boatload of 4/4's-for-3-mana in Lor-Sha block, I really can't help you, but it's been going on since about Ravnica block.
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MadMAxJr

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Re: MTG
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2009, 10:58:56 AM »


In the plus category, the overall quality of work in the paintings is probably at an all-time high.


That's it! We will now play with full size prints of the paintings.
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BŁge

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Re: MTG
« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2009, 01:02:27 PM »

faerie decks are getting too strong,

You know, every time I see an iteration of this statement, I think back to the time my friend Diana had built a faerie deck back in Ravnica/Time Spiral and beat some sliver players quite soundly.

What is the meta-game lookin' like now days? Buge mentioned something about Demonic vs Divine. 

Frankly, I have no idea what the metagame looks like on a good day. Most of the people I play with I don't see for weeks at a time and we hardly play magic anyway. The last time I went to an organized play session was in July. I've mentioned it before, but Shards of Alara pretty much killed the game for me for introducing a "new" rarity as well as being a retread of a retread.

Divine vs. Demonic is a duel deck boxed set with a pretty obvious theme. To sweeten the pot, they're throwing in a new foil Akroma as well as a new (probably) foil Demonic Tutor.
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Misha

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Re: MTG
« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2009, 01:09:32 PM »

it really depends which metagame you're asking about. Standard is pretty different from legacy and extended etc.
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Mongrel

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Re: MTG
« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2009, 01:10:08 PM »

a new (probably) foil Demonic Tutor.

Ah yes, the 'Hilarious Rape!' demonic tutor.

FYI kids: The next expansion set is ALL MULTICOLOUR. Not hybrid either. They're screaming "GOLD!" louder than a sober fourty-niner. HEY LET'S SEE HOW LAME WE CAN GOOOOOOOOOOOO!

What kind of tricks they're going to use to have 1cc spells or mana fixing is a total fucking mystery as of this time.
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