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Author Topic: Pretend That North Korea Is Fucking Scary  (Read 24544 times)

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Sharkey

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Re: Pretend That North Korea Is Fucking Scary
« Reply #280 on: April 03, 2013, 01:16:38 PM »

Ahaha. The lastest headline this afternoon is "North Korea approves nuclear strike on U.S." :lol:

Is that how it works? I propose that we give ourselves permission to turn North Korea into cotton candy with our minds.
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Mongrel

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Re: Pretend That North Korea Is Fucking Scary
« Reply #281 on: April 03, 2013, 01:42:37 PM »

"It's ahhh, whadjacallit.... cyclemalogical warfare."
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Defenestration

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Mongrel

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Re: Pretend That North Korea Is Fucking Scary
« Reply #283 on: April 04, 2013, 10:33:30 AM »

That is, uh... that is actually pretty fucking significant.

Of course right about now, the US State department has its head in its hands, if for no other reason than the sheer wastefulness of Anonymous' hack. Imagine what the CIA or State department could have done with serious inside access. Or, if they already do have access, this will only ramp up counter-efforts by NK, making their job harder.

Assuming this is that deep a hack. Some rumblings on the BBC site indicate that maybe a Chinese decoy was hit instead? I dunno, that bit's kind of confusing.
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BŁge

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Re: Pretend That North Korea Is Fucking Scary
« Reply #284 on: April 04, 2013, 10:58:47 AM »

Yeah, like Anonymous would trust THE GOVERNMENT with that kind of access.
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Healy

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Re: Pretend That North Korea Is Fucking Scary
« Reply #285 on: April 10, 2013, 09:37:53 AM »

So, is anyone keeping up with the recent missile news? I'm starting to think they might actually pull the trigger this time around.
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Shinra

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Re: Pretend That North Korea Is Fucking Scary
« Reply #286 on: April 10, 2013, 09:48:44 AM »

I suspect this originally started as posturing. But I think we are past that point. The only thing we can hope is that if he does launch an attack, it either fails spectacularly or takes a minimum of human life.

A personal pet theory I have is that as soon as NK launches an attack, China invades and annexes the country. South Korea would probably make a huge stink about it, but I think the EU and America would breath collective sighs of relief at it not being their problem. NK has apparently been sitting on a lot of natural resources for years that they can't really do anything with, not to mention a relatively docile people who are already accustomed to treating the Chinese as allies. What might take decades of work for other countries could take a few years for China.

While it would suck for the NK people to go from one communist regime with no respect for human life to another, I don't know what kind of alternatives there would be. I think the reason we haven't seen war so far already is how much of a fucking nightmare it would be to get involved in a conflict with them. It's easy to write off the North Koreans as backwards dirt farmers, but they have one of the largest (if not the largest) standing armies in the world. They have nearly two thousand tanks on par with the Abrams and have spent years preparing for a ground war on their own soil. A ground war with them would be a fucking nightmare, their countryside is bristling with anti-air batteries, and I don't think anyone wants to nuke them.
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Healy

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Re: Pretend That North Korea Is Fucking Scary
« Reply #287 on: April 10, 2013, 10:12:51 AM »

An online friend of mine is currently teaching in South Korea and I'm really worried for his health and safety if fighting does break out.
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BŁge

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Re: Pretend That North Korea Is Fucking Scary
« Reply #288 on: April 10, 2013, 10:39:39 AM »

NK has apparently been sitting on a lot of natural resources for years that they can't really do anything with

Like what? They've depleted their arable land. Much of their wood goes towards fuel since they can't get cheap soviet oil. Their animal population is practically nil. What is it, rocks?
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patito

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Re: Pretend That North Korea Is Fucking Scary
« Reply #289 on: April 10, 2013, 10:40:27 AM »

Rocks of various kinds are very valuable, yes.
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Kazz

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Re: Pretend That North Korea Is Fucking Scary
« Reply #290 on: April 10, 2013, 10:42:33 AM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_North_Korea#Resources_and_land_use

Quote
Natural resources include coal, petroleum, lead, tungsten, zinc, graphite, magnesite, iron ore, copper, gold, pyrites, salt, fluorspar and hydropower.

yes, mostly rocks
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Ziiro

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Re: Pretend That North Korea Is Fucking Scary
« Reply #291 on: April 10, 2013, 12:36:15 PM »

I have a few friends active in the military over there. It's concerning, to say the least.

Most interesting theory I've seen so far as to why it is occurring this way: Posturing turned insanity because he can't control the military like his father. The military is so high on their own bullshit they might actually pull the trigger.

The most politically probable (and frankly, best) solution I've seen so far is that China rolls in from the north and annexes it before shit actually hits the fan. The alternative outcomes really don't do much in China's favor. Most of them end up up with shit tons of refugees pouring in and the United States Military active in their front yard.
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Mongrel

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Re: Pretend That North Korea Is Fucking Scary
« Reply #292 on: April 10, 2013, 01:05:41 PM »

I suspect this originally started as posturing. But I think we are past that point. The only thing we can hope is that if he does launch an attack, it either fails spectacularly or takes a minimum of human life.

A personal pet theory I have is that as soon as NK launches an attack, China invades and annexes the country. South Korea would probably make a huge stink about it, but I think the EU and America would breath collective sighs of relief at it not being their problem. NK has apparently been sitting on a lot of natural resources for years that they can't really do anything with, not to mention a relatively docile people who are already accustomed to treating the Chinese as allies. What might take decades of work for other countries could take a few years for China.

While it would suck for the NK people to go from one communist regime with no respect for human life to another, I don't know what kind of alternatives there would be. I think the reason we haven't seen war so far already is how much of a fucking nightmare it would be to get involved in a conflict with them. It's easy to write off the North Koreans as backwards dirt farmers, but they have one of the largest (if not the largest) standing armies in the world. They have nearly two thousand tanks on par with the Abrams and have spent years preparing for a ground war on their own soil. A ground war with them would be a fucking nightmare, their countryside is bristling with anti-air batteries, and I don't think anyone wants to nuke them.

Just as a minor point, I do think that the NK military won't be nearly as useful as it looks on paper.

Of course a non-zero number of those tanks and artillery pieces and missile batteries will actually fire when their triggers are pressed, and some of those may even hit their marks, but how many is a big goddamned question mark. Also, unless China decides to support them outright in a war, they'll be starving in the dark with no gas in a week. And if China DOES support them, then we've all got way way bigger problems.

Also, FWIW, the Chinese may have massive issues as a repressive state, but a Chinese bootheel would be fucking Candyland compared to what they've got now.

I still say the best possible solution is for NK, China, Japan, and the US to all sit down together - in secret if need be - thrash out a "desired outcome" that everyone can agree with, then and get a plan in place to manipulate, prod, or outright shove NK there. Is that likely? No. But now that China is getting more and more freaked out by the lunatic living in their backyard shed, it's no longer impossible. The motivation is there among all parties. If China can be soothed, real progress might actually be possible.
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Mazian

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Re: Pretend That North Korea Is Fucking Scary
« Reply #293 on: April 10, 2013, 01:28:20 PM »

Just as a minor point, I do think that the NK military won't be nearly as useful as it looks on paper.

Of course a non-zero number of those tanks and artillery pieces and missile batteries will actually fire when their triggers are pressed, and some of those may even hit their marks, but how many is a big goddamned question mark.

There are probably some hints from when they shelled Yeonpyeong Island a year and a half ago - in their first wave, only 40% of the shells hit the island at all, from ~17 km away.  It's not a very big island, but still, it's not like it's a moving target.  Their second (smaller) wave did much better, 100% hit rate.

I thought I saw a claim that about a quarter of those shells were duds, though now I can't find a source again, so grain of salt.
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Mongrel

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Re: Pretend That North Korea Is Fucking Scary
« Reply #294 on: April 10, 2013, 01:54:03 PM »

Yeah, I mean, sheer volume means you can't discount them; they'll do some damage for sure. But expecting efficacy that rivals a competent professional modern army seems like a bad bet here.
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Shinra

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Re: Pretend That North Korea Is Fucking Scary
« Reply #295 on: April 10, 2013, 10:31:19 PM »

Yeah, I mean, sheer volume means you can't discount them; they'll do some damage for sure. But expecting efficacy that rivals a competent professional modern army seems like a bad bet here.

FWIW, you don't need good efficacy when you have an army of 3 million infantry and six thousand tanks. I think SK would be in for a serious hurt if the North decided to roll out tomorrow. Seoul would fall overnight, though I think that the south could eventually draw them into a stalemate long enough for the US to land troops to reinforce them.

There's no ground war scenario based out of south korea that isn't a nightmare, though. Even if we are outgunning them ala Iraq, the NK army is fucking huge. Unreliable equipment and poorly fed soldiers don't mean much when you have 3 million of them and a good percentage think, literally, that their leader is God and the only reason he experiences suffering is the enemies he is fighting right now.
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Mongrel

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Re: Pretend That North Korea Is Fucking Scary
« Reply #296 on: April 11, 2013, 12:04:42 AM »

I don't know... food and gas are a very serious question. Sure they wouldn't kick in for a couple days, and you can do a lot of a damage in that time, but in a war a few days can either be forever, or nothing at all.

We are talking about a population where 80 percent of these people are thought to be malnourished to begin with and many will lack any sort of training or initiative to deal with adverse situations. Their generals are the product of politics and none have any combat experience whatsoever. When they were shelling stationary islands, nobody was shooting back at them at first but in a real hot war, we're going to see things shake out differently, I think. Maybe as you say Seoul will still fall and things will be as bad as you describe, but I think there's a fair chance that won't happen and a non-zero chance of a total military collapse by NK. Also, I think South Korea has a very fair chance of acheiving total air supremacy at least over its own territory, which is death for many of those invading tanks.
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Mongrel

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Re: Pretend That North Korea Is Fucking Scary
« Reply #297 on: April 11, 2013, 12:19:33 AM »

God damn, do I ever wish the War Nerd wasn't subscription-only nowadays.
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Brentai

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Re: Pretend That North Korea Is Fucking Scary
« Reply #298 on: April 11, 2013, 03:46:50 AM »

So... an entire countryside full of malnourished, mindlessly attacking human figures lacking the basic ability to operate modern equipment, laughable on their own but terrifying in terms of their sheer numbers, relentlessness, and inability to be reasoned with in any way.

Welp.  Guess we finally got our zombie apocalypse.
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patito

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Re: Pretend That North Korea Is Fucking Scary
« Reply #299 on: April 11, 2013, 03:51:27 AM »

I thought you were going for a zerg thing, since korea and all.
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