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Author Topic: Jap Comic Books  (Read 22708 times)

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Lady Duke

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Re: Jap Comic Books
« Reply #100 on: February 20, 2009, 04:05:17 PM »

Quick, someone list a manga or 7 where women are portrayed as stronger.  Like actually stronger.  There must be one.
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Koah

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Re: Jap Comic Books
« Reply #101 on: February 20, 2009, 04:26:55 PM »

Battle Angel Alita.
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Catloaf

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Re: Jap Comic Books
« Reply #102 on: February 20, 2009, 04:29:28 PM »

Nin nin ga shinobuden.  The class of kunoichi are actually competent ninjas.  While Onsokomaru and the infinite sasukes are, well... pathetic.

Edit: also Black lagoon.  And probably some mahou shoujo mangas. And Higurashi no naku koro ni.  Well, they might not really be stronger, but rather the murderous ones with weapons, most of the time anyway.
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Saturn

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Re: Jap Comic Books
« Reply #103 on: February 20, 2009, 04:35:57 PM »

Fujiko often makes an ass out of Lupin if that counts.

Nausicaa has the title character and Princess Kushana

Cutey honey
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Arc

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Re: Jap Comic Books
« Reply #104 on: February 20, 2009, 04:41:49 PM »

Then there's the kendo girl in One Piece, who dies abruptly after falling down the stairs. Zolo can't believe that such a strong fighter could be killed so easily, but the girl's father explains that girls are simply weaker than boys.

In the animu (Episode 19), Kuina's father tells her straight up that she can never be the best sword fighter due to her sex, but Zoro convinces her otherwise before she whips his ass. Then she falls down one of these:



... An all-too-common killer in traditional housing. The father admits that she broke barriers, before allowing kid Zoro to fulfill her dream. Altogether an inclusive tale, I'd say.
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Classic

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Re: Jap Comic Books
« Reply #105 on: February 20, 2009, 04:50:58 PM »

I did like that bit! It was a nice touch.
Also, Nico Robin is obviously a for serious fad dude. Not to mention Boa. Who has [spoiler]the ultimate super sauce[/spoiler] making her a terror even without her devil power.

EDIT:
But then again, there's no girl without breasts that rival the size of her head in that series. So...
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Brentai

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Re: Jap Comic Books
« Reply #106 on: February 20, 2009, 05:04:39 PM »

Yoruichi seems able to kick everybody's ass.  She just doesn't care.
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LaserBeing

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Re: Jap Comic Books
« Reply #107 on: February 20, 2009, 05:11:08 PM »

Masami Kurumada's manga have relatively empowered female characters. Both Saint Seiya and B't X have the main characters trained from childhood by strong female warriors.

Saint Seiya does have a bit more classic shounen sexism; all female Saints are required by tradition to wear masks, and there's a lot of stuff about giving up being a woman in order to live as a warrior. Marin and Shaina are still considered expert fighters though, both being Silver Saints (although they tend to get treated pretty badly in the anime filler).

In B't X on the other hand, the two most powerful fighters are female. In particular, Karen is considered to be not just equal to the other members of the Four Knights, but actually the best of them. And Major Aramis is just badass.
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Zach

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Re: Jap Comic Books
« Reply #108 on: February 20, 2009, 05:46:43 PM »

Bokusatsu Tenshi Dokuro-Chan.
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LaserBeing

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Re: Jap Comic Books
« Reply #109 on: February 20, 2009, 06:17:49 PM »

Dai Mahou Touge. Ikki Tousen. Magic Knight Rayearth. Keroro Gunsou. Jubei-chan.
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Brentai

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Re: Jap Comic Books
« Reply #110 on: February 20, 2009, 06:56:09 PM »

Magic Knight Rayearth.

About as shounen as a training bra.

Can't say about the others mentioned.  As a rule I avoid things I can't pronounce, Tappin' Jenga Grain Logon being the rare exception.

But yeah I think you can't expect too much from stories based heavily on traditional ninjitsu and samurai and chivalric knights and stuff.  Women just being there is something of a progressive anomaly.
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Lady Duke

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Re: Jap Comic Books
« Reply #111 on: February 20, 2009, 07:01:07 PM »

Ha, I should've thought of Ikki Tousen.
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Saturn

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Re: Jap Comic Books
« Reply #112 on: February 20, 2009, 08:12:25 PM »

One thing i've always found funny is that in Mazinger, Sayaka can easily beat nearly anyone's ass...until she gets in Aphrodite A (her Mech)
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Niku

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Re: Jap Comic Books
« Reply #113 on: February 20, 2009, 11:12:37 PM »

THIS IS NIKU'S "WHENEVER HE REMEMBERS" REMINDER THAT JUBEI-CHAN IS AMAZING
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Disposable Ninja

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Re: Jap Comic Books
« Reply #114 on: February 20, 2009, 11:24:10 PM »

True, but I don't believe that there's a Jubei-Chan manga.

Manga with hardy girls. Right. Read or Die / Dream counts, right? Also, Fairy Tail actually lets its lady characters win fights; Erza has pretty consistently won almost all of her fights, and the couple that she hasn't at the very least gave her good reasons to lose.

I brought up AIKI earlier. Yeah, the main dude and the central bad guy are both way stronger than any of the female characters, but the story seems to imply that eventually one of the main girls are going to surpass them (all signs point to the one girl whose tits we haven't seen yet and likely never will).
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BŁge

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Re: Jap Comic Books
« Reply #115 on: February 21, 2009, 06:19:50 AM »

don'tsayhyperpolice
don'tsayhyperpolice
don'tsayhyperpolice
don'tsayhyperpolice
don'tsayhyperpolice

.. uh, Hyper Police?

that's it, I'm outta here.
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Saturn

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Re: Jap Comic Books
« Reply #116 on: February 21, 2009, 11:14:06 AM »

Shirow Masamune's manga pretty much all have strong female characters


Patlabor.
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Mongrel

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Re: Jap Comic Books
« Reply #117 on: February 22, 2009, 06:21:34 AM »

Shirow Masamune's manga pretty much all have strong female characters


Patlabor.

 

Though for my money, Leona Ozaki is actually a better female role model in many ways than Kusanagi. Kusanagi is more professional, and far more intelligent, but she's not written so much like a woman as a freaking hand of god*. Orion, you can forget about. I guess Deunan Knute wins the overall Shirow competition for being a strong, intelligent, and credible female lead?

*(not that I don't utterly adore everything Shirow wrote up until the mid-to-late 90's or so).
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Arc

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Re: Jap Comic Books
« Reply #118 on: February 22, 2009, 08:18:29 AM »

Shirow's female leads are better written when Shirow isn't the one writing them. The Major evolved from a typical commander with 'tude, into a methodical agent solving shady mysteries within the movies and series. Knute went from being a one-dimensional asshole, to an otherwise vanilla (but sympathetic) action figure in the CGI flicks.
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Mongrel

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Re: Jap Comic Books
« Reply #119 on: February 22, 2009, 08:57:39 AM »

I don't know, I hate every anime or film version of anything Shirow ever wrote. The slightly better characterization is not enough to pay for the massive losses in all other areas. Regardless of his other failings, Appleseed v1 and v2 and GitS 1.0 were some absolutely brilliant Sci-fi by any standard, not just manga or comics. And I'll always have a big ole soft spot for the sheer hilarity of the Tank Police.

By his own admission, Shirow is a bit of an antisocial nitwit - then he caught too much of the Kenichi Sonada Fetishist disease. The last two books of Appleseed were basically an exotic feild guide to commando tactics with an occasional gag reel thrown in. And don't even get me started on the GitS 2.0 manga, Jesus H. Fucking Christmas what a waste. I want to see Appleseed finished someday, but I'm still afraid to look.

I know Shirow was always balanced on the knife edge, but oh how far he fell. 

***

Anyway, tangeant aside, the real problem is that Shirow's one of the thousands of dorks (asian and non) who write female leads not because they think their story should have a strong female lead, or because they beleive in equality, or empowerment or whatever the fuck, it's because that shit gets them going. That's not to say that ALL instances of female leads with poor characterization are because the artist is randy for his creation (though that does happen), it can be as simple as wanting to draw girls all day instead of guys.

I'm not one of those hardcore pro-equality guys who collar and leash themselves and spend their days denigrating men, but I like to see both genders properly written. I think the recently mentioned Planetes* did a decent job there, especially with Fee. North Americans are hardly immune either. That's why we see shit like the Wonder Woman debate. (You're telling me the ONLY way anyone can think of making a female lead strong and distinctive is to make her into a lesbian? really? Are they seriously that fucking clueless?!).

Back to Manga, another book I think of where the females are done in a decent way is Blade of the Immortal. Rin is fairly clichť at first, simpering and useless, but she really grows over the story. The current arc has had her out of Manji's shadow so it has really showcased a lot of changes that were subtle and may not have been observed along the way. Hyakurin is also a good example of the cynical doyenne who's not so old that she's 'lost her stuff'. That can be pretty hard to write without making the character too slutty, too cold, too soft. I'd say Samura does a pretty respectable job. But he was good with female characters back when he wrote short romance manga, so he seems to have the knack.

There's not much more I can think of besides that.

*I wish I could get more Manga like that, but I just can't be bothered to wade through the rest to find it anymore. Most of the shit I have now is pretty damn old.
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