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Author Topic: Health Care Reform  (Read 36878 times)

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SCD

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Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #260 on: January 06, 2010, 05:16:20 PM »

The left is bad at getting things done, whereas the right is good at getting bad things done. Same old same old.

I agree with this statement, assuming it's only applying to the last 10 years.

Because the other Clinton administration was a shining pillar of accomplishment on Health Care Reform?
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Pacobird

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Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #261 on: January 08, 2010, 06:13:19 PM »

So I've had my head buried in these bills for the past few days, and although both bills require households to purchase health insurance, the government largely subsidizes it for households making $88,000/year or less.  This will not translate into complete coverage unless you are below the poverty level, but that alone is a wonderful thing considering that's the group that didn't have coverage to begin with, and everyone pays substantially less.

For instance, after government subsidies the amount I would pay would be about $6,000 annually (House and Senate totals vary but I happen to be about at the intersection; the poor pay more and the middle class pays less under the Senate bill).  For comparison, my employer currently pays $17,000 annually for the group plan of which I am a part. 

Additionally, both plans require employers of a certain size to pay for employees' insurance; the House bill requires it based on total payroll ($500,000) and the Senate by total number of employees (50).  These are both very low numbers.  The vast majority of people would not even see the payments the government was not subsidizing, and while in some cases it may come out of their paychecks, this would be rare; most employers with group plans either charge their employees directly for shitty coverage or pay way more than either plan would mandate.

The biggest thing, though, is pre-existing conditions.  Insurance companies may not adjust your premiums based on pre-existing conditions; I have not read the bill in all its fine print in its entirety at this point, granted, but I am ready to declare anything else a bald-faced lie.  The only pre-existing factors that can change your premiums are age, geography, and size of household.

but zomg public option
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Brentai

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Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #262 on: January 08, 2010, 07:13:47 PM »

Hey, that's nice, it sounds like it means anybody who works for a temp agency gets near-free health insurance now.  Bottoms up, Thad.

(Though again, this is almost guaranteed to be the lowest level of care possible.  Still, nobody can turn anybody away for not having insurance now.)
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Mongrel

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Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #263 on: January 08, 2010, 07:57:42 PM »

Hm. Well, with that in mind, I'll lean more towards the "better than nothing" crowd than I was before, but I'll still want to see how it looks after playing out in the real world for a few years.
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Royal☭

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Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #264 on: January 19, 2010, 07:46:09 PM »

Can you say Health Reform is dead?  Repeat after me:  Health reform is dead.

So Scott Brown, a tea-party Republican just beat the pants off of Martha Coakly for Ted Kennedy's old Senate seat.  A tea-partier just took the seat of the liberal lion.  With it goes the filibuster proof supermajority (as tenuous as it was), which was the only thing these weakass Dems had in their arsenal, apparently.  Special note:  Coakley had a 20-point lead on Brown a month ago.

Of course, Democrats are going to read this the wrong way. They'll see Brown's win as an indicator that they need to be more conservative, and drop the health care issue entirely for fear of it being political suicide.  All the while not realizing that it was in fact the fact that they weren't being bold enough, not decisive enough, not commanding enough, dare I say not liberal enough that is scaring the public away.  They got a huge political headwind, massive mandates and the public opinion firmly on their side.  And they botched it.  So now they'll think the entire debate was toxic, ditch it and lose hard in 2010.  It's time for a whole new political party.

Burrito Al Pastor

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Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #265 on: January 19, 2010, 08:33:22 PM »

And people wonder why I don't care about politics.
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Brentai

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Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #266 on: January 19, 2010, 08:38:59 PM »

Both political parties have pretty well alienated the center at this point.  The logical end result of this would be a new party forming to represent that demographic, but we know that's not how this country works; it'll be interesting to see what the actual end result is.

My prediction for 2012?  Centrists stage a coup d'etat and hijack the Republican party from the neocons, use it to crush the Dems, and set up a Presidency loosely based on the philosophies of Eisenhower.  I never said it was a good prediction.
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Norondor

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Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #267 on: January 19, 2010, 09:05:44 PM »

My prediction: things will continue to get worse and worse, forever, and there will never be any hope for anyone as corporatism runs rampant and people are continually crushed.
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Disposable Ninja

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Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #268 on: January 19, 2010, 09:12:21 PM »

My prediction: we're going to see a violent coup orchestrated by radical conservative terrorists. The infrastructure will collapse, the wealthy will flee the country, and only the most malevolent and cruel of the religious right will be left, and they will rule this country they love with hate and anger, establishing themselves as the only salvation from Homosexuals and Al Gore. To maintain a strong, Christian America, they'll perform routine house-to-house cross checks, to make sure everybody is good and Christian.

This'll all happen by 2012.
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Saturn

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Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #269 on: January 19, 2010, 09:17:15 PM »

My prediction: things will continue to get worse and worse, forever, and there will never be any hope for anyone as corporatism runs rampant and people are continually crushed.

and the people they shit on the most will beg to be shit on more.
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SCD

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Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #270 on: January 19, 2010, 09:35:55 PM »

Prediction:  Those who know how to camp out, have a knack for helping others in bad times, have a decent rifle and ammunition in their locker at home, take the time to practice, and carry a stash of liquors and dried goods will do better than their neighbors who do not no matter how bad things get.
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MarsDragon

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Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #271 on: January 19, 2010, 09:40:04 PM »

Kinda sucks that most of those guys are complete wackos I wouldn't trust with any kind of civilized society.
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Ted Belmont

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Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #272 on: January 20, 2010, 02:18:05 AM »

My prediction: puppies!

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Mongrel

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Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #273 on: January 20, 2010, 04:11:02 AM »

My prediction for 2012?  Centrists stage a coup d'etat and hijack the Republican party from the neocons, use it to crush the Dems, and set up a Presidency loosely based on the philosophies of Eisenhower.  I never said it was a good prediction.

That's not a prediction, that's a fantasy so hot I would whack off to it all day long if it happened.
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Transportation

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Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #274 on: January 20, 2010, 05:48:03 AM »

MY PREDICTION: The US is going to suffer from imploding infrastructure and energy shortages that'll cripple the country unless massive centralization occurs, which would result in some massively authoritarian administration because they're good at fixing that. Somewhere between a military dictatorship or commies since Americans are inherently authoritarian. That's the largest possible political crisis that matches slavery in terms of political shifts that I can think of, anyway.

Remember, we went from FDR to Reagan in 40 years, so hope isn't totally lost. Maybe. Of course, political eschatology is silly anyway.

Not that that matters since Skynet will probably kill us all or we'll achieve space travel and start dropping asterioids on the planet by then.
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PhilosopherDirtbike

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Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #275 on: January 20, 2010, 07:40:51 AM »

My Prediction: Lot's of fun internet rage for me to read and watch over the next few months on YouTube and the various comments sections of the news sites that host this story. Already some really good nuggets in the linked story, actually. Watching people get pants shittingly angry over subjective shit like politics and philosophy is one of my very favorite things. I suppose it is sad that people may die as a result but the new world order is gonna have us all in concentration camps in a few decades anyways so  :shrug:
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Mongrel

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Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #276 on: January 20, 2010, 10:32:06 AM »

Pffft. They've come a long way from concentration camps my boy :mahboi:

Someone figured out that better-than-life is way more effective.
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Pacobird

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Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #277 on: January 20, 2010, 11:10:19 AM »

My prediction: Senate Bill passes as-written before Brown takes his seat; Raul Grijalva gets really mad but shit is still way better than it would have been otherwise so Congress can fucking burn for all I care at this point
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Mongrel

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Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #278 on: January 20, 2010, 11:14:41 AM »

My prediction: Senate Bill passes as-written before Brown takes his seat; Raul Grijalva gets really mad but shit is still way better than it would have been otherwise so Congress can fucking burn for all I care at this point

Actually, this is what I too predict.

Because while the teabaggers would be pleased as punch if their new boy sunk that dastardly health care bill, everybody else has now committed to it.

It doesn't matter if the grudging supporters hate it or not, if they let it fall apart now they'll look like complete retards, not heroes.

I don't think passage of the bill is guaranteed by any means, but I'd give it better-than-even odds at least.
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Royal☭

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Re: Health Care Reform
« Reply #279 on: January 20, 2010, 11:54:36 AM »

Democrats are going to drop health care like a radioactive shit-brick, get slaughtered in 2010 and by 2016 Presdent Palin will be building her Ruledome Mansion while the rest of us fight in crudely built gladiatorial cages for the privilege of eating something that isn't our own flesh.
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