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Author Topic: Star Trek  (Read 14633 times)

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MadMAxJr

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #80 on: May 20, 2010, 10:26:45 AM »

I forget if these are linked elsewhere on the forums, but these are highly relevant (and some NSFW) TNG clip edits: http://www.jandrewedits.com/
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James Edward Smith

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #81 on: May 20, 2010, 01:13:09 PM »

Voyager had the Sliders problem where you know they won't get home until the series ends, and the series will continue for as long as people will watch.

Seriously, how sweet would it have been if Voyager had been written less by formula and actually went in an unexpected direction that wasn't established from the first episode? I think pretty sweet if they'd actually done it.

Year of Hell was one of the best episodes but unfortunately it really did need a reset due the premise of the show being beyond FUBAR by the end of it. But I really feel that they could have done something far less predictable than, at the end of the show, we get back to Earth.

I would have found it way more interesting if they had gotten back to Earth by the 2nd or 3rd season say but done so by pulling some crazy, desperate trick on the Borg during the whole Species 8472* thing. They would have thought they could get away with it, but whatever they did would end up bringing either the borg or Species 8472 or worse, both of them back with Voyager into the Alpha Quadrant.

The ensuing seasons would have been an all out clusterfuck as crazy shit happened and Janeway, Tramatized by fucking over the Alpha quadrant so bad would eventually come to her senses and use her and her crew's more intimate knowledge of the two races to find some solution to save the alpha quadrant.

The finale would probably involve time travel and quantum realities, etc. and would result in Janeway saving the Alpha Quadrant but at the cost of most of the crew, including a beloved main cast member, probably Seven or ChakoteSeven who was against the plan at the start but then ends up jumping in during a dangerous part when something goes wrong and saves the day in a selfless Spock in Wrath of Khan like manner. Janeway and the survivors are then left statisfied that they got the oppurtunity to undo their boneheaded fuck up that they made during a momment of emotional weakness but are left having to accept the deep personal price they paid to do so.

Anyway for tldrers

Instead of "At the end we get home after many adventures."

It would be "We get home at some point, but in a hasty and regretable way that fucks up everything, then manage to fix everything, but only after paying the price for our foolishness."

I think that would have been way cooler.

*Is that right? If so, then the only reason I can give for my mind latching on to such a random number is that I must have subconsiously enjoyed hearing Jerry Ryan say it over and over in episodes.
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Mothra

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #82 on: May 20, 2010, 02:43:36 PM »

Yet another reason why it sucks a stone cold D that Ronald D. Moore got kicked off the show after three episodes:

From Wiki, on the subject of the BSG remake:

Quote
The premise has a lot of possibilities. Before it aired, I was at a convention ... and they were answering questions from the audience about the new [Battlestar]. It was all very technical, and they were talking about the fact that in the premise this ship was going to have problems. It wasn’t going to have unlimited sources of energy. It wasn’t going to have all the doodads of the Enterprise. It was going to be rougher, fending for themselves more, having to trade to get supplies that they want. That didn’t happen. It doesn’t happen at all, and it’s a lie to the audience.

I think the audience intuitively knows when something is true and something is not true. Voyager is not true. If it were true, the ship would not look spic-and-span every week, after all these battles it goes through. How many times has the bridge been destroyed? How many shuttlecrafts have vanished, and another one just comes out of the oven? That kind of bullshitting the audience I think takes its toll. At some point the audience stops taking it seriously, because they know that this is not really the way this would happen. These people wouldn’t act like this.

How sweet would Voyager have been if by season four the ship had huge, gaping chunks missing, borg tech grafted onto the hull, a ragtag crew of random aliens they had picked up to refill their numbers, and some semblance of Federation utopian ideas being tested against actual need?
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Frocto

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #83 on: May 20, 2010, 03:41:58 PM »

Voyager had the Sliders problem where you know they won't get home until the series ends, and the series will continue for as long as people will watch.

Of all the shows you could have picked, you picked the one where they actually do get home halfway through the show and then they leave. Jesus, Sliders actually made fun of the concept. Please be less retarded kthx
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JDigital

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #84 on: May 20, 2010, 04:24:13 PM »

I'm aware of how Sliders solved the Sliders problem. My point is that Voyager didn't. Maybe if the UK got Voyager before Sliders I'd call it the Voyager problem.
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Büge

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #85 on: May 20, 2010, 04:25:19 PM »

Voyager had the Quantum Leap problem where you don't know if they will get home until the series ends, and the series will continue for as long as people will watch.

Better, Frocto?

How sweet would Voyager have been if by season four the ship had huge, gaping chunks missing, borg tech grafted onto the hull, a ragtag crew of random aliens they had picked up to refill their numbers, and some semblance of Federation utopian ideas being tested against actual need?

This this this this this. Even thought it would have amped up the costs of sets and model effects.

Heck, with all the ensigns getting eaten by sentient lava and stuff, they should have been down to maybe a quarter of the original crew by the end. The threat of mutiny should have been ever-present. "Yeah we can go exploring, captain, if you don't mind staying on the next planet we visit." They should have been teetering on the edge of piracy, and only the practicality of diplomacy (not any namby-pamby 'Federation ideals') could keep them in good graces with the locals. Replacement crewmen would be mostly aliens they had lured in with tales of their utopian society. They might even flirt with the notion of press-ganging. If the original Star Trek was "Wagon Train to the Stars," then Voyager should have been "Mutiny on the Bounty in Space."

Sadly, I could only see something like that happening now, in our post-Galactica/Firefly TV culture, which was, in some part, a reaction to the 'untrue' space adventure that Voyager had come to embody.
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Mongrel

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #86 on: May 20, 2010, 04:55:49 PM »

WHAT DOES ZIGGY SAY?
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Mothra

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #87 on: May 20, 2010, 05:31:36 PM »

Goddammit Mongrel.

Sadly, I could only see something like that happening now, in our post-Galactica/Firefly TV culture, which was, in some part, a reaction to the 'untrue' space adventure that Voyager had come to embody.

Yeah, v. true. We would've needed some awful inbred Sci-Fi schlock like Voyager and Stargate to rebel against if we were to get the lean towards realism we've got now. Hell, Stargate Universe, while still unforgivably terrible, became a damn sight more watchable when they started shamelessly ripping off BSG.

It's one of those things where we couldn't have reached these heights without the neigh-traumatic lows of the 90's/early 00's
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Frocto

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #88 on: May 20, 2010, 05:35:25 PM »

So what's Quantum Leap about? I need more crummy sci-fi to watch in-between Lexx and Andromeda.
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TA

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #89 on: May 20, 2010, 05:37:56 PM »

Scott Bakula puts on dresses and pretends to be ladies to make their lives better.
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Frocto

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #90 on: May 20, 2010, 05:49:39 PM »

a-are you sure
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TA

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #91 on: May 20, 2010, 05:51:56 PM »

Basically.  Sometimes he has no legs.
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James Edward Smith

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #92 on: May 20, 2010, 05:58:37 PM »

Well the thing you have to consider is that under Rodenberry, Startrek was all about the macro scifi aspects. It was about the Q, the Borg, the Prime Directive, Data's search for humanity, these sorts of things. The crew and the ship were just there so that these concepts could be explored they weren't supposed to be realistic.

I don't think Rodenberry ever cared about the details of how the ship actually ran or anything logistical like that. All he thought of is what sorts of technology or phenomina could be out there and what major implications could they have.

It's episodes like that one where that planet erases all of the crew's memories because they have a custom of wanting to be left unfound by other aliens, but it doesn't work because they leave too many clues behind and human nature is to try to unravel mysteries. That was Star Trek. What did the aliens look like when they finally encountered them? I don't remember but I bet probably like humans or they said they made themselves look like humans to communicate or something like that.

The show didn't care about particulars, it just wanted to tell a story that explored a concept.

Now BSG, that's a totally different animal. That's a show that is all about the characters, not really the concepts. So, if they want us to relate to those characters and invest in them, they have to put them in a much more realistic take on the scifi situation so that we can imagine what it would be like to be there and be convinced enough that we understand why the characters do certain things or whatever.

Why I think Voyager sort of sucked where as Next Gen doing the exact same thing was great is that Voyager's concepts where dumb, uninteresting, and poorly written in almost every case where as TNG only had that problem for like 1 or 2 seasons. Also it had better actors over all. Even Marina Sirtis got decent towards the end, you know when she started wearing a uniform again and I think people like Patrick Stewart and even Levar Burton were almost good right from the get go.

I think the only people I liked on Voyager were the Doctor (He was good in China Beach too), suprisingly Tom Paris by the end, Seven, and to be honest I actually liked Neelix and Janeway by the end of the show too as much as that makes every nerd on the Internet think I'm an idiot. But to be perfectly clear, I always liked Neelix in concept because he was what many of us here seem to think the show needed a lot more of, Delta quadrant natives as new crew members and also, I feel he started playing the part really well towards the end of the series.

Now Janeway, her writing had highs and definate lows, but the highs were never enough to really make me like her character. BUT, I feel her performance of what was written for her was almost always good. Same thing sort of goes for Tom Paris too. He was a pretty goofily written character most of the time, but the actor made it work in a way that made him likeable. In stark contrast, I feel like Harry Kim was the opposite, a fairly real seeming and interesting character for that show who was rarely performed well.
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Frocto

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #93 on: May 20, 2010, 05:59:41 PM »

sweet
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Frocto

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #94 on: May 20, 2010, 06:04:35 PM »

Also, I never thought I'd say this, but every opinion Geo just voiced is completely factual and true. Voyager would have been better if it were better written, not if it were grittier or whatever. Star Trek was always fantastic and magical and about more important things than being realistic
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Büge

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #95 on: May 20, 2010, 06:56:32 PM »

Basically.  Sometimes he has no legs.

Or he's a monkey.
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TA

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #96 on: May 20, 2010, 08:13:36 PM »

Oh wow I never saw the monkey one.  Now that I think about it, though, that is EXACVTLY what that show would do.

Hey whatever ended up happening with the evil leaper?
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Mongrel

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #97 on: May 21, 2010, 03:31:01 AM »

Goddammit Mongrel.

I'M SORRY, I loved that show.

Wait, I'm not sorry at all. Quantum Leap was a gas. <3<3<3
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Büge

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #98 on: May 21, 2010, 03:46:07 AM »

If we could find a .gif of Al thumping Ziggy with the heel of his palm in frustration, I think we'd have a suitable replacement avatar for you.
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Bal

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #99 on: May 21, 2010, 04:00:27 AM »

RE: Getting home mid-series. That would have put them smack in the middle of the Dominion war ongoing in DS9, into which they would have been immediately conscripted. Would this have been awesome? We'll never know.
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