Topic: Don't you know there's a war on? (Read 68563 times)

McDohl · « **Reply #500 on:** October 20, 2011, 09:06:53 AM »

Quote from: Büge on October 20, 2011, 08:31:22 AM

Also, the Libyan ~~orks~~ militia built themselves a tank.

Requires additional onomatopoeic word for automatic weapons fire.

Büge · « **Reply #501 on:** October 20, 2011, 09:12:45 AM »

They even have their own Kaptin Bluddflagg:

Quote

Commanding a posse of pick-up trucks mounted with heavy machine guns, the man in the sea captain's hat, postman Lutfi al-Amin, plans to follow.

"When it clears the way, we will follow," Amin said.

Asked about his headgear, he said: "It's my lucky hat!"

Mongrel · « **Reply #502 on:** October 20, 2011, 12:30:34 PM »

Death and misery are tragic, but this was honestly the best damned war in decades.

Büge · « **Reply #503 on:** October 20, 2011, 04:00:34 PM »

When was the last "good" war, anyway?

Mongrel · « **Reply #504 on:** October 20, 2011, 04:12:58 PM »

That depends on which side of the political spectrum you ask.

Friday · « **Reply #505 on:** October 20, 2011, 04:56:17 PM »

I like to say "The Korean War" and then when people say "what's that?" I suddenly flood into their base with 100 lings

McDohl · « **Reply #506 on:** October 20, 2011, 06:07:38 PM »

This has been 'Sexual Encounters with Friday'

Next week: ANAL!

Beat Bandit · « **Reply #507 on:** October 20, 2011, 07:13:50 PM »

same butt-time, same butt-channel

Mongrel · « **Reply #508 on:** October 20, 2011, 07:46:55 PM »

I don't think I want to know how many butt-channels there are.

Büge · « **Reply #509 on:** October 20, 2011, 07:51:48 PM »

Just one, but it's public-access.

Mongrel · « **Reply #510 on:** October 20, 2011, 08:54:51 PM »

Love this quote:

Quote

Gadhafi's erratic behaviour prompted some to speculate he suffered from a legitimate medical problem: megalomania, bipolar disorder, or perhaps paranoid schizophrenia. Frank Anderson, a former CIA officer assigned to Libya in the 1970s, was a little less clinical in his assessment. “I just don’t know anyone like him,” he once said. “He’s a whack job.”

Thad · « **Reply #511 on:** October 21, 2011, 09:13:25 AM »

Full withdrawal from Iraq by January 1.

Well, good.

Mongrel · « **Reply #512 on:** October 21, 2011, 11:21:33 AM »

"Hay Sarge, why does my ticket home list 'Afghanistan' as the destination?"

Thad · « **Reply #513 on:** October 21, 2011, 11:26:53 AM »

In fairness, Obama HAS been totally consistent in saying he'd ramp down Iraq to focus on Afghanistan. I may not agree with it, but I can't begin to understand all the liberals acting surprised by it when it's EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID HE'D DO.

Then again, Obama delivering on a campaign promise IS a pretty unexpected development.

Classic · « **Reply #514 on:** October 21, 2011, 12:33:26 PM »

Did we ever figure out why the Bush administration was so gung-ho about having a war with two countries? Did we ever figure out why we invaded Iraq?

I'm not sure I understand why Afghanistan has so much strategic significance, but I did understand how toppling the Taliban was an obvious retaliatory measure.

Thad · « **Reply #515 on:** October 21, 2011, 01:27:52 PM »

Quote from: Classic on October 21, 2011, 12:33:26 PM

Did we ever figure out why the Bush administration was so gung-ho about having a war with two countries? Did we ever figure out why we invaded Iraq?

Basically the Bush Administration was made up predominantly of people who'd been wanting to invade Iraq for a decade and were looking for an excuse. Give a gander at the Wikipedia entry for Project for a New American Century.

Notably, a paper signed by Wolfowitz (among others) urged Bill Clinton to invade Iraq as a bulwark to promote democracy in the Middle East -- basically, the neocons were trying to provoke an Arab Spring. Damningly, the report noted that the American people would be resistant to such a plan and it would take an event along the lines of a Pearl Harbor to get them to agree to the plan.

(Conspiracy theorists, of course, use that to promote "9/11 was an inside job" whackjoberry. I make no such claims; I merely suggest that the neocons were ready to capitalize on a tragedy if one were to happen.)

Bush was swept up in all of this, plus he had his own personal reasons for wanting to take Saddam out.

Essentially, the plan to go to Iraq was underway long before 9/11; once 9/11 happened, the administration scrambled to find any justification they could for the already-decided policy, and seized on any flimsy evidence that Iraq posed any kind of threat while ignoring the overwhelming evidence that it didn't.

Ultimately, if Iraq -- or any other Middle-Eastern nation -- flourishes as a stable democracy, the neocons will claim credit, and if it doesn't, they'll blame Obama.

(And it should probably go without saying, but the Arab Spring has fuck-all to do with our invasion of Iraq, though the neocons will be happy to claim credit if it ends up the way they want it to.)

Norondor · « **Reply #516 on:** October 21, 2011, 01:37:48 PM »

Quote from: Thad on October 21, 2011, 01:27:52 PM

(Conspiracy theorists, of course, use that to promote "9/11 was an inside job" whackjoberry. I make no such claims; I merely suggest that the neocons were ready to capitalize on a tragedy if one were to happen.)

i take the middle ground of moonbattery and hold that the conspirators knew the attack was coming and just deliberately did nothing so they could use it as their excuse for invasion, but.

Brentai · « **Reply #517 on:** October 21, 2011, 02:26:15 PM »

I wouldn't say the Arab Spring has fuck-all to do with the Iraqi occupation. Most likely it would have happened half a decade ago or sooner if there hadn't been a powerful military force that may or may not be fo the idea of basic human rights for Arabs hanging out nearby.

Thad · « **Reply #518 on:** October 21, 2011, 02:43:48 PM »

Quote from: Norondor on October 21, 2011, 01:37:48 PM

i take the middle ground of moonbattery and hold that the conspirators knew the attack was coming and just deliberately did nothing so they could use it as their excuse for invasion, but.

And I just gotta Hanlon's Razor it. Yes, they had ample warning it was coming, and no, they didn't do anything to stop it, but I still have to go with Team Stupid over Team Evil on this one.

Quote from: Brentai on October 21, 2011, 02:26:15 PM

I wouldn't say the Arab Spring has fuck-all to do with the Iraqi occupation. Most likely it would have happened half a decade ago or sooner if there hadn't been a powerful military force that may or may not be fo the idea of basic human rights for Arabs hanging out nearby.

I wouldn't say that exactly -- more that our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan have galvanized extremists and made it harder for moderates. Same basic idea, though.

Course, it's still unclear whether the Arab Spring will result in a leg up for the moderates or for the extremists. Closest thing to a stable democracy in the region is Iran.

I'm sure as hell not going to mourn Qaddafi, but the fact that he was "accidentally" shot in the head after being captured is not exactly the triumph of the rule of law that one might hope for.

(And hey, maybe it really WAS an accident. Shit happens in the chaos of a firefight. But in this particular case I think Hanlon's Razor is at odds with Occam's.)

Mongrel · « **Reply #519 on:** October 21, 2011, 06:23:37 PM »

Let's say Hitler didn't shoot himself (OH NO, GODWIN'S LAW! THIS COMPARISON IS TOTALLY DISPROPORTIONATE!) and was instead found by some erstwhile private Kaplanski.

I'm not saying that a trial wouldn't have been the right thing there either - I am definitely not an eye-for-an-eye kind of fellow - but I'm not saying I would've been surprised if an "accident" happened.

Hell, I don't even have to make up stupid imaginary scenarios. That really did happen with a bunch of Death Camp guards and Kommandants, known partisan hunters, etc. etc.

People are only concerned in this case because they're hoping that Libya puts on a big show of western-style values so that NATO can get that warm fuzzy feeling of total justification. I think the Libyan leadership - and even much of the rank and file - have tried very very hard to show they're not a bunch of jihadist nutbags. This was a pretty big slip-up on those grounds and might hurt their image a little, but in the long run it's all going to be swept under the table.

Worst case scenario, they'll blame the schmo who pulled the trigger and then let him off easy (see: the Shoe-Thrower dude).

News:

Author Topic: Don't you know there's a war on? (Read 68563 times)