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Author Topic: Thundercats  (Read 26689 times)

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BŁge

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Re: Thundercats
« Reply #120 on: August 02, 2011, 04:10:01 PM »

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Thad

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Re: Thundercats
« Reply #121 on: August 02, 2011, 04:24:23 PM »

...I agree (and have said so in this thread), but man I wish she didn't come across as totally illiterate two sentences in.
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Zaratustra

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Re: Thundercats
« Reply #122 on: August 02, 2011, 05:16:25 PM »

watched ep 1.

good points:
* snarf doesn't speak hooray
* lion's dad looks awesome

bad points:
* the most cliched plot, ever (prince that shirks his duties, check. stern father that reconciliates before dying, check. woman warrior in heavily concealing clothing, check.)
* THE KID IS GOOD WITH TECHNOLOGY BUT DAD DOESN'T CARE JUST LIKE YOU VIEWER PERSON

Beat Bandit

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Re: Thundercats
« Reply #123 on: August 02, 2011, 05:53:23 PM »

I love that the Cheetara feminism rant goes on to say that Teen Titans is horrible because 50% of the female population dresses in a way she doesn't like but 50% is okay.

Also apparently showing your stomach is sluttier than an outfit that conforms to your vagina / ass?
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Thad

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Re: Thundercats
« Reply #124 on: August 02, 2011, 08:29:50 PM »

bad points:
* the most cliched plot, ever
[...]
* THE KID IS GOOD WITH TECHNOLOGY BUT DAD DOESN'T CARE JUST LIKE YOU VIEWER PERSON

Actually, the latter is an inversion of a cliche (technological society where the Sensible Adults dismiss magic as a fairytale).

But yeah, generally speaking the plot just ticks off boxes out of any given Joseph Campbell deconstruction, but that's not an inherently bad thing.  It's perfectly all right to use a formula if you do it well (Star Wars, The Lion King, Harry Potter...).  And it's one of the few cases where I think "It's a show for twelve-year-olds" is actually an appropriate defense.  (Though I'm guessing most twelve-year-olds are familiar with the three examples I just gave.)

You're right, though, that for the most part there were no surprises.  (I was surprised twice: the aforementioned [spoiler]Lynx-O cameo[/spoiler], which is of course just an Easter Egg for the fans, and [spoiler]seeing the knife flash in Panthro's hand, though of course as a fan I knew he was Mumm-Ra as soon as I saw it[/spoiler].)
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Thad

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Re: Thundercats
« Reply #125 on: August 03, 2011, 11:13:28 AM »

I love that the Cheetara feminism rant goes on to say that Teen Titans is horrible because 50% of the female population dresses in a way she doesn't like but 50% is okay.

Also, while I'll agree with SOME of the criticisms, it does bear noting that Teen Titans Animated Starfire is far and away the most modest design the character has ever had.

Also apparently showing your stomach is sluttier than an outfit that conforms to your vagina / ass?

New Cheetara's does both, though.
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Classic

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Re: Thundercats
« Reply #126 on: August 03, 2011, 11:32:38 AM »

It seemed like most of the complaints were about the exaggeration of her sexual characteristics in the new character design, above and beyond her costume design. Of course, they're quick to puritanically point out that the pre-pubescent character also shows off her midriff. You know, like small children trying to act grown-up do.
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Thad

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Re: Thundercats
« Reply #127 on: August 03, 2011, 12:58:40 PM »

I'm not sure I buy the "it's like a small child trying to act grown-up" argument.  I don't think it's puritanical to think an eleven-year-old should put a damn shirt on.

I don't even really think the problem is sexy characters (well, in the case of the eleven-year-old yes, that IS a problem), but of such a narrow definition of "sexy".  Huge jugs, bare midriff, impossibly tiny waist.  Contrary to what Spram may tell you, beautiful women come in all shapes and sizes.  Skinny, chubby, athletic, muscular, short, tall, dressed scantily or conservatively.  Let's see some damn variety.

Original Cheetara was hot.  And she didn't need giant breasts to be hot.

And I say that as someone who really, really likes big breasts.
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Royal☭

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Re: Thundercats
« Reply #128 on: August 03, 2011, 03:58:00 PM »

Wait this Cheetara is younger than 20?

Thad

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Re: Thundercats
« Reply #129 on: August 03, 2011, 04:01:31 PM »

Dunno; I'd ballpark her at 20ish.  The "prepubescent" comments refer to Wilykit.
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Disposable Ninja

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Re: Thundercats
« Reply #130 on: August 03, 2011, 04:06:01 PM »

Yeah, Wilykit's strange translucent petal-skirt / bikini combo is a might bit... uncomforting.

As for Cheetara, I honestly don't find her new outfit all that different from her old one. One design has a bare midriff and cleavage, the other one hugs her every single curve like body paint.
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Kayin

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Re: Thundercats
« Reply #131 on: August 03, 2011, 04:52:36 PM »

Just as a general note, the artistic style of most things have gotten more exaggerated in general over the years. Anime in the 70s/80s generally had, face nonsense aside, generally pretty damn good anatomy. More exaggerated and stylized proportions and characteristics for both male and female characters is more common. Lion-o went from a muscled warrior to a lanky, wirey teenager. New Panthro is even bigger than before. It's easy to look back at Cheetara now and go "Wow she's just some fit, atheletic fighter chick", but in the context of her time, she was a very sexualized character, design wise.

This isn't to say any individual criticism isn't valid or the whole thing isn't worth talking about, but I don't feel like people are looking at these things realistically. Context matters!
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Thad

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Re: Thundercats
« Reply #132 on: August 03, 2011, 05:44:08 PM »

Context does indeed matter, and the context here is that EVERY goddamn female cartoon character looks like that.

Remember April's first appearance in TMNT 2003?  She was wearing a belly shirt TO WORK.  With a labcoat over it.

Even Kim Possible -- as positive a female cartoon character as you're going to find -- had a minuscule waist and started out with a bare midriff.  Though in fairness, she wore baggy pants, her breasts weren't exaggerated, and they gave her less revealing clothes as the series wore on.
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Mothra

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Re: Thundercats
« Reply #133 on: August 03, 2011, 06:07:51 PM »

Implying of course, Thad, that you have watched the entirety of Kim Possible!

AHAH!
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Thad

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Re: Thundercats
« Reply #134 on: August 03, 2011, 06:27:28 PM »

Actually, no, I've seen about half an episode.  But I'm glad it's out there.  Girl-friendly cartoons depicting strong characters in non-stereotypical roles are a good thing.

(I have of course spent some time griping about Young Justice's approach to female characters.  Megan's portrayal is infuriating for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with her perfectly reasonable costume.  Given the choice, I'd take new Cheetara's skimpy outfit/strong, assertive role over Megan's non-exploitative costume/character defined entirely by her crush on an asshole.)
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Mothra

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Re: Thundercats
« Reply #135 on: August 04, 2011, 05:21:31 AM »

It really doesn't help that she's one of maybe two female characters in that show.
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Thad

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Re: Thundercats
« Reply #136 on: August 04, 2011, 06:48:26 AM »

"Maybe two" is a pretty good description.  I think the Round Eye Animation thread has me cataloging every time the show managed to pass the Bechdel Test.

I think it happened twice.
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Thad

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Re: Thundercats
« Reply #137 on: August 05, 2011, 08:33:13 PM »

Fish people in a laser-equipped hovership on a sandsea fighting a giant carnivorous plant?  Lion-O spends the show being stupidly reckless, learns a heavyhanded moral lesson, and then saves the day by not really doing much of anything?

Now THIS is Thundercats.
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Sharkey

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Re: Thundercats
« Reply #138 on: August 05, 2011, 10:43:49 PM »

Fish people in a laser-equipped hovership on a sandsea fighting a giant carnivorous plant?  Lion-O spends the show being stupidly reckless, learns a heavyhanded moral lesson, and then saves the day by not really doing much of anything?

Now THIS is Thundercats.

Wake me when someone gets put in a hole.
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Disposable Ninja

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Re: Thundercats
« Reply #139 on: August 06, 2011, 07:56:08 AM »

I suspect episode 3 is going to follow our wide-eyed hero, his more practical older adoptive brother and the girl as they travel through an evil forest while battling smaller random encounters and a boss battle against some manner of dragon or dinosaur.

Well, other than being a quicksand ocean instead of an evil forest, I was pretty spot on here I'd say.
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