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Author Topic: Fox Only  (Read 4895 times)

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Bleck

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #80 on: August 03, 2010, 07:29:18 PM »

What if they claim they pressed the button accidentally, or did it without thinking of the glitch?

For the cape glitch, specifically, this isn't possible. The cape glitch is the only one in Brawl that I can think of where you simply cannot accidentally do it, and, for the most part, it is incredibly simple to tell when people have been using it. There is a certain time frame that the move lasts for and a certain distance it moves - even if you have no view of the player's controller, anybody who knows the game well enough can tell when it's being used.

That being said though, Frocto and patito have the right of it.

Also there are four Brawl hacks that try to make things not awful - Balanced Brawl is almost indistinguishable from the normal game and just removes infinites and makes Meta Knight a bit worse. Brawl+ tries to fix everything by changing physics and move trajectories. Brawl- tries to fix everything by making every character absolutely fucking ridiculous (Bowser has constant Super Armor, Ganondorf's Warlock Punch kills you in one hit and does 666% damage, etc). Project M is the JUST MAKE IT MELEE bullshit one with wavedashing.

Balanced Brawl is the best one if you don't want the game to change that much, and Brawl- is the best one if you want to have fun playing the game.
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Doom

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #81 on: August 03, 2010, 07:35:45 PM »

Quote
Brawl- is the best one if you want to have fun playing the game.

Quote
Bowser has constant Super Armor, Ganondorf's Warlock Punch kills you in one hit and does 666% damage

Why don't you just play vanilla Brawl at this point?
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McDohl

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #82 on: August 03, 2010, 07:38:16 PM »

I would run Brawl- just to be able to dick with the music.  That's a fantastic idea.

Chrono Cross - Boss Battle Theme
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Brentai

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #83 on: August 03, 2010, 08:37:23 PM »

I like how there's a very special ghetto for Zelda Twilight Princess characters.
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Bleck

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #84 on: August 03, 2010, 09:08:45 PM »

Why don't you just play vanilla Brawl at this point?

Because then I can't actually enjoy playing as Link. :c
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Saturn

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #85 on: August 03, 2010, 11:45:48 PM »



As for fighting game tier lists, my experience is "American players cannot make Tier Lists". As for the new characters being on the lower half of the list, I think it's half and half lack of experience and capcom being too conservative. I think we'll see some fluctuation up for some of them as they get their games developed. As for gamerbee's success, I do think a lot of it was actually related to a combination of his skill and Adon's surprise factor, though he's definitely better than the US players gave him credit for.


and now J.wong seems to be screwing around with Makoto (who is supposedly the WORST CHARACTER IN THE GAME)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpldp7HsIts&feature=player_embedded#

maybe the "low tier" characters just haven't been played with enough to find their shenanigans


Also what Saturn said. It's kinda funny that a lot of the time low tier characters seem the most broken at low level play.

More evidence of this phenomenon: Pyro is generally considered  underpowered...unless you are playing against chumps and he becomes the UNSTOPPABLE BURNING OBJECT (seriously how can you NOT kill a goddamn M1+W pyro)
 
Demoman is considered a bit overpowered...unless chumps are involved and he becomes THE UNSTOPPABLE KING OF SPAM
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Shinra

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #86 on: August 03, 2010, 11:58:16 PM »

Eve and Twitch in league of legends eat most people alive, despite eve being considered one of the worst characters in the game, and Twitch being mid tier at best.

Ezrael, despite consecutive nerfs for the last six+ months, has remained at the very top of tier 1, but is a free kill played by anyone but the best of players.
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Bal

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #87 on: August 04, 2010, 12:00:49 AM »

I wonder what the priority on that overhand fist is, because he fucking curb checked Bison right out of his drill with it in that first match.
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Kayin

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #88 on: August 04, 2010, 01:12:02 AM »


and now J.wong seems to be screwing around with Makoto (who is supposedly the WORST CHARACTER IN THE GAME)

I do think it's irresponsible to put her under Dan, but honestly this doesn't prove much. Tiers are pretty tight in modern games. Justin eventually lost to someone he stomped with his main at a major before and basically just beat him and some nobody one game. Andy OCR is quite good, but Wong is Wong. Eventually Andy figured out how to fight a good Makoto and her weaknesses got to be exploited. She is not a very good character, but what she has seems very dangerous until you realize how fragile her gameplay is. I think some good players can make her work, but she's not going up any time soon. There was nothing new there, it's the same ol' day 1 Makoto, just played a little tighter than usual.

As for the overhead fist, Pyscho Crusher doesn't haver all that much priority to begin with, surprisingly. It's good, but it's use is as an overhead.
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Brentai

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #89 on: August 04, 2010, 01:17:13 AM »

maybe the "low tier" characters just haven't been played with enough to find their shenanigans

Maybe, but I tried screwing around with Makoto under the same assumption and found her to be broken.  As in actually broken, like there was a bug somewhere that was completely breaking her viability against certain characters, particularly shotos.  The only thing I can see Justin doing with her that any other character can't do better is the Karakursa>Ultra (and if you have a full bar I know you can Karakursa>Super>Ultra for serious ANGRY BALL PUNCHING) but that fucking cripple-throw of hers just misses like 90% of the time so fuck it.

Say what you want about Justin Wong but what you're seeing in the video looks like the player and not the character.  Which, going back to Point A that started this whole conversation, is why I personally stay away from the top tier - I don't want my victories to be seen as Fox's victories, damn it.  I also try to stay out of the scum tier because I don't want to get a reputation for showboating, even if it is hilarious to beat people with Pichu consistently.  Fun and playstyle are usually the two main concerns but after that I try to aim my dart at the second tier roundabouts just to shut people up.  When I'm not RANDOM 4 LIFE of course.

Warning

What he said.
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Frocto

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #90 on: August 04, 2010, 01:54:15 AM »

A good player playing a bad character will only have one or two ways to utterly destroy their opponent, instead of four or five.
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Kayin

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #91 on: August 04, 2010, 02:05:35 AM »

Frocto, for someone who only dabbles in fighting games, just said something extremely wise and true.
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Frocto

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #92 on: August 04, 2010, 02:10:15 AM »

:3
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Shinra

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #93 on: August 04, 2010, 02:45:15 AM »

LOL stupidity follows:

Just bought Warwick the other day. Playing a game tonight with my wife, I'm going full jungle and immediately get to it.

Ashe at bot starts attacking the twin golem spawn. I roll my eyes at her and just go on my way, since I pretty much never bother with the twin golem spawn until late, it's not something I was worried about. Get my blue, get my red, start to gank. Next time I go over to get my red buff, ashe is there. Trying to get the red buff.

So I do the reasonable thing. I wait until the lizard's at 400 HP and smite him. Then immediately say in chat; "Red buff is not for ashe." I guess I could have approached this better, but really. Ashe is neither a ganker nor lacking in the slow or damage department. She's also not jungling, and I'm of the opinion that any full jungler gets first dibs on the buffs. She starts bitching at me, but I just blew her off, and proceeded to get a double kill and get two assists in the next 45 seconds. "That's why Warwick gets the red buff, Ashe."

The game goes on, and as we progress she goes on at length bitching at me about everything. My item build, the fact that I keep going back to the jungle between ganking (as if ganking full time is a viable strategy past summoner level 10) and the fact that i'm not tanking, only jump into fights to kill dudes at low health, only attack from the bushes, don't initiate, etc, etc, etc. You know, all those things that you keep gankers around for in the first place. I was always under the impression that warwick was best played as a chaser. You know, from that multi-hit stun thing, the attack speed boost, lifesteal q that deals a % of maximum health and buff that massively boosts runspeed when near a low health hero.

As the game goes on and it becomes more and more apparent that I'm having a much better game than her in the kda department, she changes the topic to how KDA does not matter, what really matters is DPS, and Warwick is a bad hero for DPS, and I have no damage gear (Wriggle's Lantern, Youmuu's ghostblade, Black Cleaver, Frozen Mallet. The only item I had that wasn't damage based was my fucking shoes.) and that my job should be to initiate teamfights (when not built as tankwick) and to protect her (a support dps AT BEST) and Ryze. (A bottom tier burster being played TERRIBLY)
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Bal

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #94 on: August 04, 2010, 02:58:35 AM »

I really want Makoto to be tourney viable in SSF4. She's by far my favorite original character from the SF3 era, and it's sad to see her out of competitive play completely.
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Kayin

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #95 on: August 04, 2010, 04:40:57 PM »

I really do too. I player her still pretty frequently! She's really fun but her gameplan has sooooo many holes. I'm thinking we'll see a high level Makoto, like Yeb and Jibbo were to SF4 Gen. She's definitely worse off than SF4 Gen, but I can see her skirting around lower brackets in capable hands.
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Bal

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #96 on: August 04, 2010, 05:13:05 PM »

How tough is that choke grab to land? Because it seems like it's a guaranteed ultra.

She seems to have the same problem that Adon and a bunch of other lower tier characters have, not being able to close with any real safety, but also somehow being a rushdown character.
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Kayin

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #97 on: August 04, 2010, 05:40:06 PM »

It's iffy. Generally you don't go for it and let the treat of you doing it be enough. Problem there is it's slow as shit. Ex is 5 frames which is poretty good, but even lk is 7 which is slower then some sweeps. It's kinda sad. But if it hits it has no proration so you get a ton of damage. It's landable and still very good, but not so good as to save her character. She can't maintain her pressure like she can in 3s (where grab -> hp -> hp rush punch -> grab attempt was a real, viable tactic! :D)
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Defenestration

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #98 on: August 05, 2010, 02:50:17 AM »

RE: Fighting game tiers. It's also a dangerous trap to get caught up in tier lists to begin with. Yes, eventually they will be valid, but they're usually regional (Balrog is rated much higher in S/SF4 the states than in Japan where he is played almost not at all), and sometimes a player will come out of nowhere and totally change how people look at a certain character.

For instance, I think we'll be seeing a lot more Adon play in future SSF4 tournaments thanks to Gamerbee at Evo this year. For those who didn't see, he eliminated Justin Wong from the tournament and made the top eight with what is considered to be a completely shit tier character. Wong himself is quoted as calling him the worst in the game.
A super, super late response in support of this.
http://www.sirlin.net/blog/2010/7/12/evolution-2010-the-miracle-man-with-zangief.html
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R^2

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Re: Fox Only
« Reply #99 on: August 13, 2010, 05:44:41 PM »

As much as I'd love to have done this with characters from some other game, you go with what you know.


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