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Author Topic: Simpsons  (Read 6567 times)

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Rosencrantz

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Re: Simpsons
« Reply #40 on: August 16, 2010, 09:43:09 AM »

So you and your best friend love quoting the Simpsons at each other?

I don't see how that could possibly end tragically.

Yeah, I wanted to link to that comic but I forgot to.

...In a way, it's good that he lives several hours away so we don't end up doing that all the time.
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James Edward Smith

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Re: Simpsons
« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2010, 10:28:08 AM »

Oh a Lottel post was made. I don't read those...


Sorry classic.
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Rico

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Re: Simpsons
« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2010, 11:17:27 AM »

It was pretty ironic.
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James Edward Smith

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Re: Simpsons
« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2010, 12:27:59 PM »

Rico, damn you. People are going to think that the joke you're making is a different, less funny joke that is just a jab at me instead of the much funnier joke you actually made, which is just a jab at me AND Thad.

The whole thing muddles my brain so much that I'm just gonna go ahead and intentionally miss use an other much simpler term that people on the Internet still use improperly all the time.

Stop being so META.
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Thad

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Re: Simpsons
« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2010, 09:32:47 PM »

It's a good episode but I still feel it's were the show jumped the shark because it was where the show decided it had to start to develop the characters a little more because they had ran out of situations to create episodes around. Now this was a good idea and if they had followed it up, then maybe the show would still be hilarious today, but they didn't. I can't think of one other major character who ever got character development on the show. It just stagnated after Lisa.

You Only Move Twice and A Fish Called Selma were season 8.

Hell, Mother Simpson, the one you cite as a high-water mark, was a month after Lisa the Vegetarian.

Fuck, why are the new Futurama's so bad? Godamn cock tease.

I think most of them have actually been quite good, though there was a rough patch between the Garden of Eden and the goat vomit.
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James Edward Smith

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Re: Simpsons
« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2010, 11:21:14 AM »

I've since conceded that the shark jump was actually much later in Season 9 with Armen Tanzarian, after reviewing Brentai's much more thorough cataloging of episodes, Thad.

But interestingly enough, I was talking to a particularly pretentious an nerdy co-worker of mine today about the subject and he upholds that the shark jump was in that same season as the vegetarian episode. He thought that it was that clip episode where they had Troy Mcclure walking around in the house as if it was a set instead of a house.

He defines "Shark Jump" as the moment you couldn't take a show seriously anymore and he feels for the Simpsons, it was when they became self referential like that.

For me, I really do think it was season 9 now. But I think I define shark jump differently
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Thad

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Re: Simpsons
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2010, 04:49:57 PM »

I've since conceded that the shark jump was actually much later in Season 9 with Armen Tanzarian, after reviewing Brentai's much more thorough cataloging of episodes, Thad.

Yeah, Groening's expressed similar hatred for that one on more than one occasion.  I think that's a fair place to put it; there were still years of good episodes to be had (and again, still a handful of good eps every season, even though the last two have been pretty poor -- though the 19th was pretty good!) but that was a definite sign of trouble in the water.

But that one's really the opposite of character development -- it's one where a character's entire history was wrecking-balled for a flimsy premise.

He defines "Shark Jump" as the moment you couldn't take a show seriously anymore

Well, if you make up your own definitions for things, then yes, they can describe anything you want.

and he feels for the Simpsons, it was when they became self referential like that.

It was hardly the first self-referential ep, but definitely the most self-referential up to that point.  Still, as clip shows go it was a good one, largely because a lot of the clips were things we'd never seen before.

Also: Robotic Richard Simmons.

Anyway.  Everybody's going to pick shit apart.  But Simpsons isn't Happy Days and there isn't a single shark-jump moment.  The transition from the likes of, say, 22 Short Films about Springfield to, say, that one that was just a half-hour Apple commercial, was pretty gradual -- and again, the show still has good eps and even good seasons.
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Brentai

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Re: Simpsons
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2010, 07:08:31 PM »

The iPod episode was pretty anti-Apple, I thought.

Someone mentioned Frank Grimes' funeral in the other thread, and the more I think about it the more I believe it may have been a turning point for the show.  Not so much a shark jump moment as it's not immediately obvious that the thing was going 'round the bend, but definitely one of the nails in the coffin that led to that.

Basically the whole episode and especially the ending was a result of the writers sort of recognizing and taking a jab at Homer's (and by extension the family's) growing tendency to act more like a morally-incapable manchild than a well-meaning fool.  The parody of this trend turned out to be immensely popular, but somewhere down the creative line somebody misinterpreted this as meaning that people actually liked Jackass Homer, rather than seeing the concept of Jackass Homer be (a little darkly) made fun of.  From there we can sort of track the parabola down through season 9, going from Lisa's Sax (where he's still ultimately a family man) dooooooown to Lost Our Lisa (where he's still ultimately a family man except that his fatherly advice is literally "do stupid things, all the time").

The whole thing kind of comes to a head in the Movie, where Marge thinks for a moment and realizes that there are literally no redeeming qualities left to justify his marriage.  Of course if you analyze it, the whole Movie is kind of an attempt to bring Jackass Homer back to the Homer he was when the series began.  It's like the Clone Saga without the clones, so you know, no skeleton in the chimney.  Too bad the movie is essentially separate from the show and not nearly enough to veto a decade's worth of fine-tuning a consistently profitable formula.
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Niku

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Re: Simpsons
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2010, 07:43:51 PM »

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BŁge

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Re: Simpsons
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2010, 07:51:58 PM »

Basically the whole episode and especially the ending was a result of the writers sort of recognizing and taking a jab at Homer's (and by extension the family's) growing tendency to act more like a morally-incapable manchild than a well-meaning fool.  The parody of this trend turned out to be immensely popular, but somewhere down the creative line somebody misinterpreted this as meaning that people actually liked Jackass Homer, rather than seeing the concept of Jackass Homer be (a little darkly) made fun of.  From there we can sort of track the parabola down through season 9, going from Lisa's Sax (where he's still ultimately a family man) dooooooown to Lost Our Lisa (where he's still ultimately a family man except that his fatherly advice is literally "do stupid things, all the time").

Actually, I think the arc ends at Make Room For Lisa, in which their relationship turns cruelly antagonistic. Homer GIVES AWAY HER ROOM TO PAY FOR DAMAGE HE CAUSED. The story even gets wrapped up at the end with Lisa more or less apologizing to Homer for making him take in culture.
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Friday

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Re: Simpsons
« Reply #50 on: August 17, 2010, 07:54:44 PM »

Quote
Also: Robotic Richard Simmons.

Yeah, I really wanted to dislike the clip show, but then they showed that. Which may be my favorite moment in any comedy, ever.
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Mongrel

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Re: Simpsons
« Reply #51 on: August 18, 2010, 02:42:44 AM »

Robotic Richard Simmons is pretty flat-out awesome, but I can't hate it just for "And now what you've all been waiting for... Hard core nudity!"
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teg

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Re: Simpsons
« Reply #52 on: August 18, 2010, 03:24:28 AM »

As much as I love Robotic Richard Simmons it works much better as a deleted scene than it would have if they had have kept it in the show. For years I thought that they made it for the deleted scene special as a joke.




...Let's all just agree that The Simpsons' first bad episode was the test animation.

Simpsons Pilot
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James Edward Smith

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Re: Simpsons
« Reply #53 on: August 18, 2010, 05:53:54 AM »

I don't find robotic Richard Simmons nearly as funny as Homer's famous bee mouthed dog line right before it, *shrug*. Really, the only part of that gag I liked was when Smithers shoots him in the head and it reforms like the T1000. Everything about that joke is just a popculture reference where as the bee-dog line is more classic, original Simpsons comedic genius.
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Thad

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Re: Simpsons
« Reply #54 on: August 18, 2010, 10:08:20 PM »

The iPod episode was pretty anti-Apple, I thought.

It tweaked but never cut.

You can tell Jobs wasn't offended by it because they kept cutting to actual Apple commercials every 5 minutes the first time it aired.

The whole thing kind of comes to a head in the Movie, where Marge thinks for a moment and realizes that there are literally no redeeming qualities left to justify his marriage.

Watched movie with ex.  Got into big argument when she said Marge should just divorce Homer because he's selfish and he's holding her back.  Realized later that the reason I took it so personally had something to do with the fact that the last guy I'd heard her describe that way was not a fictitious character.
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Brentai

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Re: Simpsons
« Reply #55 on: August 18, 2010, 10:22:01 PM »

Clearly you need to ride a motorcycle around a giant glass dome to win her back.

Or you know

not do this.
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Thad

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Re: Simpsons
« Reply #56 on: October 11, 2010, 09:33:41 PM »

...so in case anybody asks why I still watch The Simpsons, it's pretty much because once in awhile it still pulls off something like last night's couch gag.  (It's been pulled from Youtube, but should be on Hulu or something.)  Yeah, it was done by somebody who's not actually one of the writers or anything, but point is, it was on the show and it was awesome.

(Also: "That's a problem for Future Homer.  Man, I don't envy THAT guy.")
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Thad

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Re: Simpsons
« Reply #57 on: May 25, 2011, 04:11:00 PM »

...so yeah, still watching Simpsons every week.  And yeah, I've been defending it as Still Usually Pretty Good, even over its long slow decline.  But even a diehard like me has to look at this last season and proclaim it as the Worst Ever.

It DID have its flashes of brilliance -- the Banksy couch gag I mentioned in the previous post is the best thing the show's done in years (and possibly the best thing ANY show's done in years), and all the spoofs of different cartoons in Angry Dad: The Movie were wonderful.  But it's telling that my examples are brief one-offs that don't follow the usual format of the show.

So, okay, the season ended with the series' second ever cliffhanger, with the audience left to vote on whether Flanders and Krabappel should be a regular couple or not.  And while the episode was mediocre and the online voting thing isn't particularly inspired, I think there's actually a pretty good idea in there.  The Flanders/Krabappel coupling seems, like most of the supporting cast's romances, like it was selected via dartboard (or when one of the writers realized you could combine their names into "Nedna"), but it actually makes a kind of sense that, say, Selma and Fat Tony doesn't.  Or really Selma and Troy McClure or Sideshow Bob.  Or Patty and Skinner.  Or Krabappel and Comic Book Guy.

At any rate, Ned and Edna are vastly different characters but actually complement each other nicely; she's got the assertiveness that he lacks, and he's the knight in shining armor she's always wanted (and while he may be meek and prudish, he's more man than Skinner or CBG will ever be -- there's probably a point here about a schoolteacher who always dates overgrown children).  But most importantly, it takes them both outside their comfort zone and challenges them.  Flanders has become literally synonymous with a character who has lost all depth and turned into a one-note caricature; the most interesting Flanders moment of the past decade was when, given an apparent sign from God, he decided it was okay to sleep with a woman he wasn't married to.  Maintaining a relationship with Edna would challenge his dogma and force him to reexamine the true meaning of his religion.

Of course, in practice, even if the "pro Nedna" side wins, none of these things are likely to happen at all.  We probably won't see any deeper examination of their relationship, we'll just see occasional sight gags to remind us that yes this is still a thing, the writers haven't forgotten it.  Like Selma's adopted baby.  Or, for a few years there, Barney's sobriety.  Or, for that matter, Krabappel and Skinner.

But dammit, a fan can dream.
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Bal

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Re: Simpsons
« Reply #58 on: May 25, 2011, 04:20:07 PM »

A fan could have reasonably dreamed back in '98 or something, but I think it's a bit too late to hope for anything.
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BŁge

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Re: Simpsons
« Reply #59 on: May 25, 2011, 06:21:56 PM »

Huh. I haven't paid attention to the Simpsons for about five years.
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