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Author Topic: meatpaper  (Read 6360 times)

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Fortinbras

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meatpaper
« on: January 31, 2008, 02:01:04 PM »

this is meatpaper.  it is about meat.  read it.
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Büge

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Re: meatpaper
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2008, 09:02:11 PM »

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Fortinbras

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Re: meatpaper
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2008, 12:46:09 AM »

Quote from: Dr. Donald Broom
Pigs have the cognitive ability to be sophisticated.  Even more so than dogs and certainly three-year-olds.
Man, I don't care about that!  Completely beside the point!  If human beings stayed as dumb as three year old children, I'd eat them too! :vampire:

Generally I'm very sympathetic to vegetarians, and even sometimes agree with them, lamely copping out by admitting that I just don't have it in me not to eat a tasty animal.  But god damn, the Catholic church could take notes on guilt tripping from some of these jerks.

Quote from: AIM
Boneyard Jones: Huh.  I've found the worst person.
Boneyard Jones: http://www.satyamag.com/dec01/rosenberger.html
Improvidence: I don't believe you.
Boneyard Jones: I hate this man so much it gives me energy!
Improvidence: Hahah.  He's pretty wild.  I'm not quite sure what I'd do if someone I was eating with asked me not to get meat.  Right now I'm leaning more towards ordering a huge steak.  Or maybe veal.
Boneyard Jones: Ask for the biggest piece of meat they have, and ask for a slab of foie gras as garnish.
Improvidence: "Can I get mine with extra suffering?"
Boneyard Jones: If you could actually bring the goose to the table, strangle it, and take its liver out here, that would be wonderful.
Improvidence: You know, just leave the goose.  I can handle the rest.
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jsnlxndrlv

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Re: meatpaper
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2008, 01:23:09 AM »

Ever read James Clavell's Shogun?  I think about that book every time I order lobster.
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Arc

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Re: meatpaper
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2008, 07:37:52 AM »

The injection of 'carnivores' like a drunken activist spouting off about 'breeders' was choice.
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Fortinbras

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Re: meatpaper
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2008, 10:17:18 AM »

The injection of 'carnivores' like a drunken activist spouting off about 'breeders' was choice.
That's special, yeah.  I want to find that man and correct him.  Omnivore!  Omni means everything!  I'll eat your plants, I'll eat you, I'll eat the rocks in your garden if they taste salty!  I'll eat your shirt, I'll eat your watch, I'll eat your doorknobs!  Everything!

Love the idea of ripping the watch off of somebody's arm and slurping it down like spaghetti to prove a point.  Looking really pained while I do it, and then smiling a big, toothy smile when I finish.

Ever read James Clavell's Shogun?  I think about that book every time I order lobster.
Only ever seen the miniseries with Richard Chamberlain as Tom Cruise.
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Royal☭

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Re: meatpaper
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2008, 11:00:31 AM »

Omnivore!  Omni means everything!  I'll eat your plants, I'll eat you, I'll eat the rocks in your garden if they taste salty!  I'll eat your shirt, I'll eat your watch, I'll eat your doorknobs!  Everything!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SndGtCnDFrg

Büge

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Re: meatpaper
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2008, 12:35:03 PM »

Generally I'm very sympathetic to vegetarians, and even sometimes agree with them, lamely copping out by admitting that I just don't have it in me not to eat a tasty animal.  But god damn, the Catholic church could take notes on guilt tripping from some of these jerks.

You know how hard it is for me to make non-vegans feel guilty? I'd have to build up a case and cite precedent and statistics and stuff. I can't spare that kind of time. I'd prefer to just eat my falafel in peace, thanks. Of course that doesn't stop people from needling me.

"Does it bother you that I'm eating meat?"
"Only if you chew with your mouth open."

"So where do you get protein?"
"I can show you in the bathroom, but your girlfriend might get jealous."
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Brentai

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Re: meatpaper
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2008, 06:04:03 PM »

I'm probably going to piss someone off here by saying I can't get behind the logic of vegetarianism as a moral choice.  Yeah, cows and pigs and sheep and delicious shrimp have a shit life and then get murdered.  They're living creatures and that sucks.  But I just don't understand why doing the same damn thing to plants is any kinder.  Just because they can't communicate to you that they feel pain doesn't mean they don't.

...I'm not joking.  Plants and anaimals are both alive, and they both kind of exist to eat and be eaten, and sometimes fuck.  If you're going to try and convince me that it's immoral to pick what I'm gonna have to slaughter based on whether or not it has eyes, then I humbly request you go develop some vitamin deficiencies somewhere else.

(And before anybody tries any reducto ad absurdum on me, no, you shouldn't eat human beings because they taste horrible and are pretty bad for you.)
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Malenkaya

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Re: meatpaper
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2008, 06:48:38 PM »

Quote from: Dr. Donald Broom
Pigs have the cognitive ability to be sophisticated.  Even more so than dogs and certainly three-year-olds.

I wonder if anyone has ever pointed out to this guy that, given the chance, pigs will eat people.

If you're going to make vegetarianism a moral/ethical issue, the line that makes the most sense to me is things that have a central nervous system and the capacity to feel pain vs. things that don't (i.e. arthropods). But, honestly, I really don't see anything wrong with eating an animal that is going to spend its entire life mooing, eating grass and shitting in a field, provided it's actually a comfortable life and a humane death. It's the pumping them full of antibiotics and artificial hormones that I have a problem with -- and that largely because it's not very good for me.

I really had trouble getting through this unbearable, pretentious twat's writing, and was especially incensed/amused by his rabid hyperbole (or perhaps he actually thinks "carnivores" regularly order and consume 12 pound steaks), coupled with his apparent inability to recognize precisely the same rhetorical move on Bourdain's part, in the segments he quotes.
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Classic

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Re: meatpaper
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2008, 07:18:24 PM »

Just because they can't communicate to you that they feel pain doesn't mean they don't.

I'm unfamiliar with how plants are put together, what do they have that even vaguely resembles a central nervous system?
 :omg: PLEASE EXCLUDE TREANTS AND ENTS FROM YOUR BIOLOGICAL SURVEY.
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Brentai

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Re: meatpaper
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2008, 07:35:14 PM »

So rather than basing my choice of murder on eyes, I'm basing my choice of murder on nerves.  'kay.
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Fredward

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Re: meatpaper
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2008, 07:38:20 PM »

See, that's less "unable to communicate to you that they feel pain", and more "unable to communicate to themselves that they feel pain". Which might mean a bit of difference.

Nevertheless, I believe that, since things must die for us to live, they may as well be the tastiest things. I'd be the first to endorse vat-grown meat, ala Neuromancer, for a multitude of reasons, but until then, I'm sticking with seared animal flesh.
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Quote from: Brentai
It's never easy to tell just where the line is between physical malady and the general crushing horror of life itself.

Classic

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Re: meatpaper
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2008, 07:50:52 PM »

1) You can harvest from most plants without killing it.
2) What Fredward said.
3) I'm not a vegetarian by any standard, but the one argument I've heard for it is that vegetable matter is generally "healthier" for humans and generally gives a better return on calories invested.
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Kashan

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Re: meatpaper
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2008, 08:23:18 PM »

3) I'm not a vegetarian by any standard, but the one argument I've heard for it is that vegetable matter is generally "healthier" for humans and generally gives a better return on calories invested.

For grainfed cattle and pigs that's true. But humans can't eat grass and cattle sure can.
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Fredward

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Re: meatpaper
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2008, 08:35:10 PM »

1) You can harvest from most plants without killing it.

Well, you're killing a part of it. Hence, life must take life.

Oh, and I fully agree with economic\environmental motives for vegetarianism. I'm just less an ardent environmentalist, and more an ardent hedonist.
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Quote from: Brentai
It's never easy to tell just where the line is between physical malady and the general crushing horror of life itself.

Brentai

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Re: meatpaper
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2008, 08:41:16 PM »

I'd be the first to endorse vat-grown meat, ala Animal 51, for a multitude of reasons, but until then, I'm sticking with seared animal flesh.

3) I'm not a vegetarian by any standard, but the one argument I've heard for it is that vegetable matter is generally "healthier" for humans and generally gives a better return on calories invested.

Well, yes, that's why I said I only disagree with vegetarianism from an ethical standpoint, and cannibalism from a practical one.
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Fortinbras

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Re: meatpaper
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2008, 09:07:25 PM »

Well, you're killing a part of it. Hence, life must take life.
I guess.  Kind of, sort of, maybe.  Not at all.  If I swiped one of your arms, you'd call me a fucking lunatic, but not a murderer.

I'm totally, aggressively supportive of ethical farming and by all means providing a decent life for livestock because they do feel pain, and they probably don't deserve a life that basically amounts to endless torture before being inefficiently murdered (not to mention that it produces better meat by a wide margin.)  On the other hand, pain isn't enough to make me a vegetarian.  Livestock just isn't smart enough to really command a large degree of respect from me.  Cows to begin with weren't poets and philosophers, and we've spent a LOT of time breeding retardation into them.

The point is that I don't care if a vegetable feels pain whether it's aware that it's feeling it (it isn't anyways, iirc) or if it's just a kind of pain that's extremely hard to care about.  Bring me a vegetable that's had an idea and we'll talk.





... fuck.
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Malenkaya

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Re: meatpaper
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2008, 09:49:42 PM »

When it comes to a zucchini with a mustache and an eyepatch, I think it's kill or be killed.

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François

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Re: meatpaper
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2008, 10:03:45 PM »

I was peeling potatoes minutes ago, and as I plucked some pretty big sprouts off of one, I thought "man I'm going to skin this thing alive".

Then I fried it in a panful of olive oil and the moral argument basically went up in smoke.
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