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Author Topic: I'm a Star Wars  (Read 22323 times)

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2012, 04:58:31 AM »

I just want to watch the movies in the format that made me love them in the first place.

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Two-Disc-Widescreen-Theatrical/dp/B000FQJAIW/ref=pd_cp_mov_3

Done. Quit bitching.

Lucas revising the films until it's a musical about raising awareness for the plight of the Hutts during World War 2 while Snoop Dogg narrates isn't going to break the old versions. Lucasfilm Stormtroopers aren't going to break down your door and stomp all over your VHS/DVDs/Laserdiscs. They're still going to be there. I still have my original VHSes that got me hooked on this whole thing.
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Büge

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #61 on: February 08, 2012, 06:05:32 AM »

I'd like an edition that is restored. Fix the audio, get rid of the matte overlays on R2 and the smudge under the landspeeder, clean up the cut when Luke activates the lightsaber. I don't buy Lucas's insistence that the original prints were destroyed. Hell, the National Film Registry has a copy of Episode IV, and I doubt it's on VHS.

I think if George Lucas died, we might actually get one.
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Thad

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #62 on: February 08, 2012, 07:50:00 AM »

Taking all 6 movies, it's the chronicle of the rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker.

Yeah, and Luke plays a trivial enough part in that story to stick him in a corner.

A) The bit about how, since it's an entire set, highlighting that it's about Darth Vader moreso than Luke & co makes sense when you make Anakin & Darth the biggest

Which is fair enough but still doesn't make Boba and Jango Fett more important than Han Solo.

Also am I the only one who remembers one of the golden rules of time travel in any form of media: It rarely works? It almost always ends up screwing up the future even worse than if they let it happen?

No, you're not.  Even assuming the "go back in time to stop Vader" plot is for-real, I can't imagine them actually succeeding.  "He's retconning out the original trilogy!" is fanboy silliness.

Star Wars has fallen so far as a franchise at this point that attaching the license to something actually makes me less interested in it. I used to want to be a Jedi in games, now I dread it.

Haven't played TOR yet but I dug the first two games.  Hear great things about Clone Wars, though I've only watched one episode.  (It was all right.  Dini wrote it.)  I actually think the live-action TV series could be pretty great -- even the Seth Green in-universe sitcom could work.

Basically I think the universe still has plenty of life left in it, and the farther back Lucas steps the better it gets.  This is not new; as I've commented before, the best of the six movies is the one he had the least to do with.

I really did not want to know that Darth Vader used to be a total bitch. Maybe that's a statement on how villains are really made or something, but I very much preferred it when he was an enigmatic figure of doom that we knew had fallen from grace somehow, but not exactly how (0 to wholesale child slaughter in about ten minutes of screen time is not the answer I wanted, had I been looking for an answer).

People love fall-from-grace stories, and while telling Darth Vader's origin story was a risky proposition, it COULD have been great.

I remember reading a Dragonlance prequel focused on Raistlin shortly after Episode 1 came out.  The first chapter has a wandering mage show up in Solace, recognize six-year-old Raistlin's talent, and take him under his wing.  The chapter ends with him asking Raistlin why he wants to be a wizard, and Raistlin looking over at Otik and then responding, "I want to make fat innkeepers bow to me."

For all the excesses of late-period Weis/Dragonlance, the scene nails her gift for memorable dialogue and her understanding of Raistlin as a character.  She gets the allure of the Dark Side, the seductiveness of power, and that yes even a little boy can see that his life's fucked up and he deserves better -- and come to believe that the people around him are inferior.

As opposed to "Yipee!  Let's try spinning!  That's a good trick!"

The trouble with the prequels is that it feels like Lucas is ticking off boxes.  We all knew that Shmi and Padme were going to die and that was what was going to drive Anakin to the Dark Side.  But we never got any real sense of pathos out of the deal.  They just get fridged -- Padme in particular dies for no good reason except that the story says she's supposed to die.  (It also says Leia is supposed to remember her, but never mind that.)  The only scene where we really get a sense that Anakin's realizing there's darkness in him and is afraid of it is the scene where he describes how he killed the Sand People -- and in that case, his flat delivery actually works pretty well; he doesn't know how to feel and he's empty inside.  Episode 3 is the better movie and he's (marginally) better in it, but his fall is still clumsy and arbitrary.

It almost feels like Lucas is reading Joseph Campbell's fawning deconstruction of the original trilogy and trying to apply the elements of classic myth to the new one, and mostly failing.

As a storyteller, his problem is in connecting the dots.  He knows what he wants to see, and he understands the mechanics of the story, but he just can't make them gel.  His movies feel more like a series of disconnected scenes and moments than real arcs.

Another example: For all that was horribly, laughably wrong with Smallville, it had a great Lex Luthor.  A guy who you could really believe was trying to be good and was on the verge of redemption, who feared his own potential for evil and who ultimately embraced it out of a legitimate belief that it was for the greater good.  The prequel trilogy touches on all those elements, but never quite makes them work.

Lucas revising the films until it's a musical about raising awareness for the plight of the Hutts during World War 2 while Snoop Dogg narrates isn't going to break the old versions.

No, TIME is going to do that.

Lucasfilm Stormtroopers aren't going to break down your door and stomp all over your VHS/DVDs/Laserdiscs.

Yes.  People can still watch them.  On their VCR's and Laserdisc players.

Point taken that you can still get the theatrical versions on DVD.  For $25 used.  But you understand that that price is because they're out of print and becoming scarcer, yes?

I won't rule out the possibility that they'll get another print run.  Or that they'll pull the exact same crap on Blu-Ray as they did on DVD and say "Just kidding!  We ARE going to release the theatrical versions!  That'll be sixty more dollars, please."

As far as actual scarcity -- okay, realistically they'll always be easy to find through illicit means.  But it would be nice to be able to get them legally for a decent price!

I'd like an edition that is restored. Fix the audio, get rid of the matte overlays on R2 and the smudge under the landspeeder, clean up the cut when Luke activates the lightsaber. I don't buy Lucas's insistence that the original prints were destroyed. Hell, the National Film Registry has a copy of Episode IV, and I doubt it's on VHS.

I think if George Lucas died, we might actually get one.

Man, Criterion Star Wars would be pretty great.
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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #63 on: February 08, 2012, 12:25:42 PM »

Taking all 6 movies, it's the chronicle of the rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker.

Yeah, and Luke plays a trivial enough part in that story to stick him in a corner.
That I'll grant you, but the rest of the bullshit I'm standing by - there's plenty of original characters on there.
And hell, I haven't done my math - what's the # on prequel characters to OT characters, period? Do the prequels simply have more, even if it was just to sell more action figures?

A) The bit about how, since it's an entire set, highlighting that it's about Darth Vader moreso than Luke & co makes sense when you make Anakin & Darth the biggest

Which is fair enough but still doesn't make Boba and Jango Fett more important than Han Solo.
See above. I still don't understand why Boba took off like he did.

Star Wars has fallen so far as a franchise at this point that attaching the license to something actually makes me less interested in it. I used to want to be a Jedi in games, now I dread it.

Haven't played TOR yet but I dug the first two games.  Hear great things about Clone Wars, though I've only watched one episode.  (It was all right.  Dini wrote it.)  I actually think the live-action TV series could be pretty great -- even the Seth Green in-universe sitcom could work.

Basically I think the universe still has plenty of life left in it, and the farther back Lucas steps the better it gets.  This is not new; as I've commented before, the best of the six movies is the one he had the least to do with.
TOR is competing with Lucas in how to make the lore/universe worse. It has Light-Side Sith. Not the race, the cult. The cult that dark-side use is a requirement. That's all about embracing the dark-side because it's the path to power.
Yeah it's kind of fucked up.

Lucasfilm Stormtroopers aren't going to break down your door and stomp all over your VHS/DVDs/Laserdiscs.

Yes.  People can still watch them.  On their VCR's and Laserdisc players.

Point taken that you can still get the theatrical versions on DVD.  For $25 used.  But you understand that that price is because they're out of print and becoming scarcer, yes?

I won't rule out the possibility that they'll get another print run.  Or that they'll pull the exact same crap on Blu-Ray as they did on DVD and say "Just kidding!  We ARE going to release the theatrical versions!  That'll be sixty more dollars, please."

As far as actual scarcity -- okay, realistically they'll always be easy to find through illicit means.  But it would be nice to be able to get them legally for a decent price!
Yes. They announced when they first came out it was going to be a limited edition deal. And as for VHS, I need to dig the cables out and back up my VHS's to digital files before the tapes deteriorate too much. And everyone expects them to release a BD with the theatrical editions if enough noise is made, as that was, ostensibly, what caused the DVD release of them. And if it was an HD Touchup, that'd be great, but it's pretty clear Lucas doesn't consider it worth his time to touch up the theatricals. That or he's taking the very literal definition of "We want the original version" in which case, I don't blame him. Star Wars Fanboys are much like hardcore gamers in how everything you do is villified, condemned, and in general you can never please anyone.

If I didn't respond to anything it's because I couldn't think of a good response beyond "Yup."

Also Thad how do you do that multi-quote thing quicker with actual links to the post in question, I had to keep hitting quote, copying, new tab, bunch of bullshit.
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Thad

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #64 on: February 08, 2012, 12:34:25 PM »

Typically I hit Quote once, then copy-paste the initial tag with a quick Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V.  I think other posters tend to only include the full post link on the first quotation and just use [quote ] for each subsequent one.  Which is perfectly fine.

(I like the original-post link on quote tags but it breaks if a post gets moved.)
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Disposable Ninja

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #65 on: February 08, 2012, 12:41:49 PM »

Taking all 6 movies, it's the chronicle of the rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker.

Yeah, and Luke plays a trivial enough part in that story to stick him in a corner.
That I'll grant you, but the rest of the bullshit I'm standing by

That's cool, because nobody gives a shit about that stuff.
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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #66 on: February 08, 2012, 01:15:12 PM »

TOR is competing with Lucas in how to make the lore/universe worse. It has Light-Side Sith. Not the race, the cult. The cult that dark-side use is a requirement. That's all about embracing the dark-side because it's the path to power.

A little off topic, but... Just how bad is this? Isn't this the same Old Republic Sith revival brought about by Revan? Aren't most of his "Sith" just Jedi who've decided that the order has a lot of dated bullshit attached to it or that the ends justified the means when it came to participating in the Mandalorian Wars?

I believe it's possible, even with the writing staff apparently having some serious internal lore problems, for BioWare to pull off a worthwhile not-so-far-fallen Sith. Or a jedi who would be a Sith but for being in the "wrong place" at the time.
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Thad

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #67 on: February 08, 2012, 01:51:17 PM »

The justification I saw in an interview (with Daniel Erickson, maybe?) a few months back was the Godwinny "A Dark Jedi isn't necessarily someone who joins the Sith.  An evil member of the British forces in WWII wouldn't defect to Germany, he'd torture Germans."  Basically, a Dark Jedi would be someone who's still nominally a member of the Jedi Order but who has succumbed to the Dark Side, while a Light Sith would be the reverse, someone fighting for the Sith for whatever reason but having some sense of honor and fair play.

Precisely how that translates into gameplay, though, I'm not sure; again, I haven't played TOR, but in the first two games there was a pretty clear connection between Light Side and healing/buff abilities and Dark Side and offensive ones.  You could still use Light or Dark Side skills regardless of your alignment, but the one would be much more effective than the other.
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Ocksi

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #68 on: February 08, 2012, 02:57:11 PM »

I really dislike that attitudes towards light side/dark side.  The original trilogy explains pretty thoroughly that the dark side is all-consuming, and a path you don't tread, so much as are tempted into and pulled through until you're not a man so much as a shell of evil power.  Why does that have to be fucked with?
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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #69 on: February 08, 2012, 02:59:01 PM »

I know I'm accelerating myself to turbonerd status here, but Sith were seen as the cream of the crop of Darkside users. No honor, no fair play, you were what all darkside users aspired to be. Part of why the whole cult collapsed on itself is, what do you expect is going to happen when you have an order made up entirely of people who are good at backstabbing and treachery, and are made to think everyone else is beneath them. Light-Side Sith would be killed roughly two seconds after they considered maybe using some fair play.

I'm just going to stop turbonerding and say that the writing and justification are on par with how Bioware's usual stuff is these days, IE, stupid shit.
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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #70 on: February 08, 2012, 03:51:23 PM »

Weren't the Sith also a separate species that were later subsumed by the Dark Jedi?  (they weren't wiped out, but the majority of Sith were Dark Jedi rather than members of the Sith species)

Like at first they were some kinda merciless space warriors, but the Dark Jedi co-opted their name and some of their ethos?

I don't remember for sure, it's been a long time since I was ankle deep in that particular cesspit.
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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #71 on: February 08, 2012, 05:09:38 PM »

Yes. Originally there was a Sith race of redskinned dudes who had the same amount of distrobution of Light side and Dark side. They were eventually subsumed and co-opted by Dark Jedi.
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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #72 on: February 08, 2012, 05:15:48 PM »

They're playable in The Old Republic, actually.
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Bal

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #73 on: February 08, 2012, 05:59:43 PM »

Revan's whole plan by invading the Republic using the Starforge was to save the Galaxy from the returning Sith. His logic was, if he won the war, then he would have conquered the Republic and turned it into a cohesive fighting force armed with his Star Forge ships. If he lost, he would have made the Republic strong enough to resist what was to come. In either case, his goal is achieved. Where he went after KotOR was into Sith space to investigate and delay them, and the Exile joined him later (Revan is canonically male, the Exile canonically female).

Of course, that was before TOR. Now whackity-shmackity-do Revan was just a servant of the Sith and a regular old evil guy, and the Exile wasn't using the force in a totally alien way, she was just a real strong Jedi. barf.
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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #74 on: February 08, 2012, 07:13:29 PM »

so when is TOR set in relation to KotoR? I mean, is Revan gonna come back as a raid boss in Wrath of the Sith King or whatever
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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #75 on: February 08, 2012, 07:14:40 PM »

Now whackity-shmackity-do Revan was just a servant of the Sith and a regular old evil guy, and the Exile wasn't using the force in a totally alien way, she was just a real strong Jedi. barf.
Really? This is actually a thing that they're making cannon in TOR? It's not just bad information trickling down to the characters?

Urgh.
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Büge

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #76 on: February 08, 2012, 07:39:34 PM »

so when is TOR set in relation to KotoR? I mean, is Revan gonna come back as a raid boss in Wrath of the Sith King or whatever

I was under the impression that TOR overrode the canon set down in KoToR, you know because BioWare wanted to continue the Lucas tradition of taking a dump on continuity.
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Disposable Ninja

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #77 on: February 08, 2012, 07:54:54 PM »

Nah, it takes place like 500 years later.
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TA

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #78 on: February 08, 2012, 08:01:57 PM »

so when is TOR set in relation to KotoR? I mean, is Revan gonna come back as a raid boss in Wrath of the Sith King or whatever

He already came back as a raid boss.  Mid-level raid boss, even.  Also the Exile came back as a force ghost.
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Mongrel

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #79 on: February 08, 2012, 08:06:42 PM »

There's a lilttle story that tells you all you ever need to know about Star Wars canon.

See there was some writer or other who was one of the regular novel writers the book folks have in their stable. I think he also did some magazine features and game supplements blahblahblah. I think it was Abel G Pena, but don't quote me.

Anyway, he did some fanfic in his own time. The fanfic was basically him taking this damn-near-underage-or-possibly-really-underage model he was stalking online and making her Boba Fett's daughter. He even got one of the regular artists to draw pictures based on some MySpace or Facebook pictures. He was basically being as retarded about it as you can imagine, even gushing about his creation on his blog (and showing the original source page... god knows what this girl thought).

Then he convinced one of his other writer buddies to put the character in an actual novel. 

Then because it was now canon, he started putting her in his own books.

Yeeeeeaaahhhhh...

EDIT: Oh yeah, the quote I'll always remember is "Sweet Sith, I'm in love with my own creation".

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...    Ooohhhhhhhhhhhhkaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy...
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