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Author Topic: Occupy Wall Street  (Read 29643 times)

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James Edward Smith

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Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #500 on: October 11, 2012, 07:09:40 AM »

Sorry Shinra, money runs your system. The Tea Party, despite having so many successful albums, doesn't have much, but their fairy-tale, rugged individualist ideals can be used to inadvertently support big business and banks (can we call that "big money" or does it have to be "big finance"?). OWS didn't get enough rich people interested, probably because their message was "fuck you, rich 1% who run the country" and that's a hard sell.

People criticize OWS for not having a clear message or clear direction, but I think that's unfair. The message was "I'm an American and I have no power in my country because I'm not rich."

Once you get down into the "issues" an OWS protest starts to seem less like a unified mob and more like a collage of different people with different ideas who all come from different walks of life other than the fact that none of them are billionaires. How do you take back a democracy from a ruling class that at best is in power due to oversights in the system that never got fixed because the system just happened to be structured in such a way that it perpetuates itself or at worst, they intentionally are keeping the rules the way they are to fuck the rest of you because Jesse Ventura is right and they are really reptiles.

There's not an easy, civil way to fix this and well, most poor american's are still fat. You are all still fed, mostly employed, entertained, and relatively free so the motivation to do something drastic and/or meaningful just isn't there. Isn't the poster child of the OWS protestors an unemployed grad or some such?

The point is, people marched or squatted or whatever, they made the complaint heard, and then they got criticized because the fact that they are 99% of America means they don't all have some magical single voice. OWS isn't fighting for a leftist government, they are fighting for a government that represents them and their interests, whatever those happen to be, rather than trying to fool them into rallying around what isn't best for them with tv ads and thousand dollar dinners.

Are there any even remotely electable politicians that have recognized what OWS is talking about and made any attempt to side with them? At least here in Canada, Elizabeth May got elected.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #501 on: October 11, 2012, 07:25:46 AM »

I think Shinra and Geo have nailed a good big part of the problem.  Democrats are't willing to disrupt the system that has won them elections and helped them amass money and power.

There's game theory at play too.  When you have two people playing pick-a-number, the sensible thing is for the first person to pick five and the second to pick 6 -- that way each has a 50/50 shot at being closest to whatever the correct number is.

But when the first player picks 4, or 3, or 2, then the second player would be a fool to pick 6.  The second player's strategy should always be to choose one number higher than the first player.  (Or one number lower if the first person picks a high number, but you get what I mean.)

On paper, there's a really, really easy fix for that kind of gridlock: add more players.  In reality, our political system is rigged against exactly that fix.  Because, again, the entrenched power structures really aren't interested in solutions that might threaten their power.

[NEW REPLY]

Sorry Shinra, money runs your system. The Tea Party, despite having so many successful albums, doesn't have much, but their fairy-tale, rugged individualist ideals can be used to inadvertently support big business and banks (can we call that "big money" or does it have to be "big finance"?). OWS didn't get enough rich people interested, probably because their message was "fuck you, rich 1% who run the country" and that's a hard sell.

Well, a hard sell to the people who run the country.  Actually a pretty easy sell to the majority of the public, and I think OWS could certainly have done a better job of it if they hadn't been so focused on goofy shit like building tent cities and waggling their fingers.

People criticize OWS for not having a clear message or clear direction, but I think that's unfair. The message was "I'm an American and I have no power in my country because I'm not rich."

I'll agree.  Their direction is a little less clear, but I still think their goals are easily determined and articulated: shrink the banks, eliminate loopholes, raise taxes on the rich, stop giving golden parachutes to people who fuck up.  You want to get into a bit more detail, well, I think most of them would support ending corporate personhood and restoring Glass–Steagall.

Once you get down into the "issues" an OWS protest starts to seem less like a unified mob and more like a collage of different people with different ideas who all come from different walks of life other than the fact that none of them are billionaires. How do you take back a democracy from a ruling class that at best is in power due to oversights in the system that never got fixed because the system just happened to be structured in such a way that it perpetuates itself or at worst, they intentionally are keeping the rules the way they are to fuck the rest of you because Jesse Ventura is right and they are really reptiles.

I don't think it's oversight, though.  I think the system is functioning exactly as intended.

There's not an easy, civil way to fix this and well, most poor american's are still fat. You are all still fed, mostly employed, entertained, and relatively free so the motivation to do something drastic and/or meaningful just isn't there. Isn't the poster child of the OWS protestors an unemployed grad or some such?

Maybe that's part of it.  A lack of motivation.

I mean, we're sitting here talking on a messageboard instead of taking to the streets.  We're even less motivated than they are.

The point is, people marched or squatted or whatever, they made the complaint heard, and then they got criticized because the fact that they are 99% of America means they don't all have some magical single voice.

And after thoroughly ridiculing them, the news media moved on to the next shiny thing, because that's what they do.

Are there any even remotely electable politicians that have recognized what OWS is talking about and made any attempt to side with them? At least here in Canada, Elizabeth May got elected.

Elizabeth Warren's got a pretty good shot in Massachusetts.  And, via Politico (granted, a year-old article), there's also John Larson (D-CT), chairman of the House Democratic Caucus, Louise Slaughter (D-NY), Raul Grijalva (D-AZ), and Keith Ellison (D-MN).  Generally people with safe jobs in pretty relibly liberal districts.  But it's something.
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Brentai

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Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #502 on: October 11, 2012, 07:53:54 AM »

Unmotivated?  I just assumed we had all come up with better long-term keikaku than growing vegetable gardens.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #503 on: October 11, 2012, 07:56:25 AM »

My big question is did the authorities spend five months trying to politely tell the sorta-protestors to move their shit, or did they specifically decide to sit by watching while people did actual work until the optimal time to move in and take a big shit on their effort?

If it's the latter I think we're past the point of appealing to the authorities' sense of responsibility.

Have you seen the links I've posted about our mayor?
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James Edward Smith

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Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #504 on: October 11, 2012, 07:57:59 AM »

Sorry, what does keikaku mean?

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Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #505 on: October 11, 2012, 08:16:47 AM »

Unmotivated?  I just assumed we had all come up with better long-term keikaku than throwing vegetable gardens.
It's my dream plan.
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Thad

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Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #506 on: November 08, 2012, 09:06:21 PM »

Jury decides freedom of the press still a thing, acquits Carlos Miller of wrongdoing in videotaping police ejecting protesters.

Oh, and they deleted his footage and he's going to sue.
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Büge

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Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #507 on: November 09, 2012, 07:13:15 AM »

http://interoccupy.net/occupysandy/

Occupy Wall Street is turning its efforts towards hurricane relief.
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