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Author Topic: Gawkblocker  (Read 1659 times)

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Royal☭

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Brentai

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Re: Gawkblocker
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2012, 10:04:26 AM »

This is probably the first time in roughly half my life that I feel disgusted with myself for the whole joke-rapist online persona.
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Mongrel

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Re: Gawkblocker
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2012, 10:28:35 AM »

Quote
"He has the manners of a Southern gentleman"

I suppose that's about right.

So long as you're thinking of reality and not the usual Gone With The Wind Lost Cause antebellum fantasy nonsense.
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Thad

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Re: Gawkblocker
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2012, 08:10:54 PM »

I DO love all the people who posting nonconsensual upskirt photos whining about how their privacy is being violated.
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TA

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Re: Gawkblocker
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2012, 08:55:51 AM »

I dunno.  As inarguably sleazy as creepshots is, this is a pretty loathsome tactic.  Compiling and publishing a list of the personal and contact information of everybody who patronizes something you disapprove of is shitty, whether that thing is a sleazy imageboard or an abortion clinic.
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Do you understand how terrifying the words “vibrating strap on” are for an asexual? That’s like saying “the holocaust” to a Jew.

Royal☭

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Re: Gawkblocker
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2012, 09:00:36 AM »

Let us protect the privacy of those who violate the privacy of others.

Brentai

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Re: Gawkblocker
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2012, 09:15:05 AM »

More like "Let us keep our inherent moral high ground."  There's a whole lot of turning villains into victims in this world lately and it's not doing anybody any good.
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Royal☭

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Re: Gawkblocker
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2012, 09:28:19 AM »

Well, gee, when you frame it that way it makes it simply sound like protecting the privacy of sexual predators is better than the privacy of their victims.

I'm sorry if I sound flippant, but this was the result of women trying to fight back against the creepshot forum, something for which they have no real effective means to fight. Depending on how you want to frame the debate, releasing private information of these guys might be "lesser evil"-ism (something to which I disagree), but so far no one wants to actually provide a means to stop the harassment. Reddit was completely unwilling to deal with the subforum, preferring to close their eyes and screech about "free speech" as a method of ignoring their very real ability to just shut down the forum and enforce a TOS.

Thad

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Re: Gawkblocker
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2012, 09:33:57 AM »

I'm sympathetic to the idea that you shouldn't post somebody's personal information to the Web because (1) even the sleaziest fucker doesn't deserve to be threatened or harassed at home, (2) it CAN have a chilling effect on people who AREN'T sleazy fuckers, and (3) rewarding that sort of behavior leads to the sort of situation where people think it's acceptable, and then you get mistakes like Spike Lee's fuckup where he posted what he thought was George Zimmerman's phone number.

On the other hand, I have no fucking sympathy for people who post pictures of underage girls' crotches on the Internet and then act outraged that someone would violate THEIR privacy.

And I certainly think that actions need to have consequences.  There needs to be some kind of negative reinforcement for unacceptable behavior -- Brutsch said that being doxed is the worst thing that could possibly happen to him, but I think it's probably kinder than an FBI investigation.  (While I'm not sure he was breaking any laws -- he didn't take the pics himself and they weren't technically pornographic -- the people who DID take them were certainly breaking the law, and he could have been -- and could still be -- in line for some uncomfortable questions.)  If we wanna go back to everyone's favorite example, Guy Insults Gay Couple and Gets Whacked with a Baton, well, legally and morally it's quite easy to see that the guy with the club is the guy who did the wrong thing, but from a utilitarian perspective, "Well what the fuck did you THINK was going to happen when you provoked somebody?" is a question that bears asking.  Acknowledging that the guy should not have clubbed him in the head does not make the guy's head any less injured, and if it can serve as an object lesson in actions and consequences, then at least we're deriving SOMETHING from it besides head trauma.

I also think that, if someone was going to dox him, Chen and Gawker did it in the most reasonable, professional manner possible.  They treated it as investigative journalism, and presented it as a news piece rather than a call to arms.  I think it's a pretty far cry from Gabe posting some guy's E-Mail address and letting his fans go nuts.

Well, gee, when you frame it that way it makes it simply sound like protecting the privacy of sexual predators is better than the privacy of their victims.

Thanks for editing instead of leaving your post as another snarky one-liner.

Reddit was completely unwilling to deal with the subforum, preferring to close their eyes and screech about "free speech" as a method of ignoring their very real ability to just shut down the forum and enforce a TOS.

This is a fair point too.  We've discussed the contradiction between the right to privacy and the right to speech before -- being a free speech absolutist means accepting someone else's right to publish information you would rather they not publish.  And if "free speech" is the tack you're going to take, well, Gawker has a much more clearly-cut case for fair exercise of free speech (and press) in exposing Brutsch than Brutsch had in operating a subforum where people posted underage upskirt pics.

Could be some Redditors are getting a lesson in the inherent contradiction between freedom of speech and the right to privacy.

Some of them might even start to ruminate on the point that Reddit is not actually under any obligation to recognize freedom of speech on its privately-run servers.
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Brentai

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Re: Gawkblocker
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2012, 09:43:04 AM »

Well, gee, when you frame it that way it makes it simply sound like protecting the privacy of sexual predators is better than the privacy of their victims.

Ugh, NO.

This is a constant problem I have with you, that you don't seem to understand that it's possible to do more harm than good.  I understand that the original victims were feeling desperate, frustrated and, well, victimized, but it doesn't change the fact that this will probably just make things even worse.  Now you've given the perverts a way to weasel around being held responsible for their actions, and they're much, much better at being weasels than you are.  GJ all around.
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Royal☭

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Re: Gawkblocker
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2012, 09:48:06 AM »

How are they weaseling out of it? You seem to be convinced that the internet rallies to one side or the other based on actions. That suddenly sexual predators become sympathetic because, well, now their bosses know they're sexual predators. I think this sparks a debate about online and personal privacy, without letting the sexual predators get off scott free.

You seem to just take it as an isolated incident, wherein gosh these women fighting back are doing something bad. What you seem to not address is how reddit ignored the problem, shirking their responsibility to moderate their own website until finally it blew up into a full blown problem. People fought for months to try and get the subreddit shut down, only to be dismissed and ignored. Eventually they took up a drastic action in order to be heard.

Thad

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Re: Gawkblocker
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2012, 09:53:29 AM »

Yeah, I don't think there's really much danger of a huge outpouring of sympathy for Brutsch here.  I'm not sure how this gives the perverts a way to weasel around being held responsible for their actions, except to let Violentacrez take the heat while they lay low for awhile.

...the reason I haven't threadsplit yet is that I haven't come up with a good thread name.  Suggestions?
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Royal☭

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Re: Gawkblocker
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2012, 09:55:07 AM »

Cheapshots?

Ehh... too much to explain.

What the fuck is wrong with reddit?

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Re: Gawkblocker
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2012, 09:59:01 AM »

People Gawking at Children.
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Brentai

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Re: Gawkblocker
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2012, 10:07:21 AM »

Well, like you said, the "outing" of people you disagree with is pretty chilling to the innocent, and it's getting exponentially more common.  At some point there's going to be a backlash, and while I wouldn't normally expect it to be in defense of perverts, I also wouldn't expect a surge in the popularity of a guy who happily talks about sending half of everyone to the emergency room.  It all depends on how smooth the guy is, and we're talking about someone who mnaged to carve out an unchallenged rape-and-pedophilia niche in one of the world's most exposed communities.

In the very best case, the "heroes" in this tale are themselves villains, and nothing can change that.  It really wasn't the right thing to do, no matter who you do it to.  You can make some pretty strong excuses for it, but they're still excuses.  Nobody wins.
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Catloaf

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Re: Gawkblocker
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2012, 10:10:56 AM »

...the reason I haven't threadsplit yet is that I haven't come up with a good thread name.  Suggestions?

Reddit:  the internet's infected, pustulent anus
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Brentai

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Re: Gawkblocker
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2012, 10:12:56 AM »

Reddit and Weep
Gawkblocker
The Internet is Fucking Creepy
Violentacrez's Violation Pot and Slimy Jizzporium
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Re: Gawkblocker
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2012, 10:15:11 AM »

/r/horrifying
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Ted Belmont

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Re: Gawkblocker
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2012, 02:37:32 PM »

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Brentai

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Re: Gawkblocker
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2012, 02:41:27 PM »

Not surprising in any sense.

I do like the implication that a "payday loan and pawn service" thinks this man is too sleazy to work for them, though.
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