Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[McDohl]

Hey even predatory lenders have standards.

[Ziiro]

They only want your money, not pictures of your children.

[Royal☭]

I wonder how public perception of Reddit is changing because of this. If I were an accurate barometer of public opinion (which I'm clearly not), it would seem like Reddit looks like a bunch of hypocritical babies as they attempt to censor any attempt to point out all the sexual predators they love to defend.

[Thad]

Depends on what "public" we're talking about.  I'd say the mainstream either doesn't know Reddit at all, or ALREADY knows it entirely from MSM stories about how it's a wretched hive of scum and villainy.

As far as people who already know what Reddit is, I doubt their opinion's going to be swayed too much one way or another.

I think these are growing pains -- I read a good piece today by Joel Johnson to the effect that Reddit has reached the point of petulant adolescence and is bound to grow out of it.

[Büge]

Depends on what "public" we're talking about.  I'd say the mainstream either doesn't know Reddit at all, or ALREADY knows it entirely from The Big Bang Theory.

[Royal☭]

Depends on what "public" we're talking about.  I'd say the mainstream either doesn't know Reddit at all, or ALREADY knows it entirely from MSM stories about how it's a wretched hive of scum and villainy.

As far as people who already know what Reddit is, I doubt their opinion's going to be swayed too much one way or another.

I think these are growing pains -- I read a good piece today by Joel Johnson to the effect that Reddit has reached the point of petulant adolescence and is bound to grow out of it.

I think the mainstream is well aware of Reddit, considering the president just hosted a Q&A over there. I'd say that a good portion of people are now at least aware of Reddit.

[Mongrel]

To tell the truth, I almost never go to Reddit unless linked there because I hate the interface so much. Is that just me?

[Büge]

No. I think the interface is ugly too.

[Shinra]

Yeah, I don't think there's really much danger of a huge outpouring of sympathy for Brutsch here.  I'm not sure how this gives the perverts a way to weasel around being held responsible for their actions, except to let Violentacrez take the heat while they lay low for awhile.

...the reason I haven't threadsplit yet is that I haven't come up with a good thread name.  Suggestions?

Actually, Reddit has been pouring the sympathy on Violentacrez and his cohort, Potato_in_my_anus pretty much nonstop for the last week, right down to a huge amount of reddit's prominent subreddits banning Gawker links. While they are claiming the high ground of free speech and 'doxxing isn't right!' they did this same fucking thing when Reddit banned the child porn boards earlier this year. There is a huge number of pedophile and pervert apologists on Reddit and most of the protesting is about defending the right to be a creep.

Invading somebody's privacy is indefensible, sure, but if Creepshots hadn't been forcibly closed and it's moderators all banned, I don't think Reddit would have had half the outrage about this that they are now, if only because of a prior history of being a terrible community.

I wonder how public perception of Reddit is changing because of this. If I were an accurate barometer of public opinion (which I'm clearly not), it would seem like Reddit looks like a bunch of hypocritical babies as they attempt to censor any attempt to point out all the sexual predators they love to defend.

There's a reason that Creepshots got shut down and that Violentacrez and Potato_in_my_anus got banned- it's not because Reddit doesn't support pedophilia and the invasion of teenage girls' privacy. (BTW: almost all of creepshots was underage girls, just saying  ), it's because Reddit's bottom line is affected when embarrassing stories reach public perception. The "jailbait" (in some cases, actual child pornography) boards didn't get shut down until Anderson Cooper did a story about them, and then suddenly Reddit was taking the moral high ground with a series of sweeping policy changes. Reddit's administration is insanely uptight about the public perception of the site, but I can't help but wonder if maybe the administrators weren't a bunch of creeps with weird porn habits, they'd never have to scramble to remove these Subreddits whenever somebody finds out about them.

[Büge]

At least 4chan never pretended to be anything more than a cesspool of hate and perversion.

[Zaratustra]

At least 4chan never pretended to be anything more than a cesspool of hate and perversion.

Except for that Anonymous debacle. And when they went against the Scientologists. And...

Really, Reddit is an extremely disconnected, locally moderated website. Think /trv/ and /b/. You won't be able to make a sweeping statement about people in it other than, "redditors are mostly single white affluent males".

[Royal☭]

Yeah, this line from the article pretty much sums up Reddit:

It was this pattern, repeated to various degrees dozens of times, that made Violentacrez an unlikely hero to many of the white male geeks who make up Reddit's hard core.

Thing is, they ascribe to an extremely absolutist view of free speech, which seems to take as its base that not only can the government not ban you, but people can't even criticize you for your speech. And when applied to a community like reddit, ends up with excuses like "We can't moderator the abuses on our own site because that would be censorship."

[Thad]

I think the mainstream is well aware of Reddit, considering the president just hosted a Q&A over there. I'd say that a good portion of people are now at least aware of Reddit.

And last month he showed up at Rick's City Diner in Toledo.  The President making a campaign stop at a place does not mean it is a place most Americans would recognize.

I think you vastly overestimate the knowledge of the average computer user.  I have seen people Google Google.

Yeah, I don't think there's really much danger of a huge outpouring of sympathy for Brutsch here.  I'm not sure how this gives the perverts a way to weasel around being held responsible for their actions, except to let Violentacrez take the heat while they lay low for awhile.

Actually, Reddit has been pouring the sympathy on Violentacrez and his cohort, Potato_in_my_anus pretty much nonstop for the last week, right down to a huge amount of reddit's prominent subreddits banning Gawker links.

Er, I'm not talking about a huge outpouring of support FROM REDDIT USERS.  That's to be expected, seeing as how this has the potential to affect every single one of them directly, even the ones who DON'T post creepy and possibly illegal photos.

My point is that a disinterested third party is less likely to tut-tut Gawker for this than Reddit.

There's a reason that Creepshots got shut down and that Violentacrez and Potato_in_my_anus got banned- it's not because Reddit doesn't support pedophilia and the invasion of teenage girls' privacy. (BTW: almost all of creepshots was underage girls, just saying  ), it's because Reddit's bottom line is affected when embarrassing stories reach public perception. The "jailbait" (in some cases, actual child pornography) boards didn't get shut down until Anderson Cooper did a story about them, and then suddenly Reddit was taking the moral high ground with a series of sweeping policy changes. Reddit's administration is insanely uptight about the public perception of the site, but I can't help but wonder if maybe the administrators weren't a bunch of creeps with weird porn habits, they'd never have to scramble to remove these Subreddits whenever somebody finds out about them.

Well yes, that's my point.  A mainstream audience hearing this story isn't going to think "Oh that poor man, he lost his job because Gawker invaded his privacy"; they're going to think "What the fuck is wrong with that website?"

Thing is, they ascribe to an extremely absolutist view of free speech, which seems to take as its base that not only can the government not ban you, but people can't even criticize you for your speech.

That's not an absolutist view of free speech at all.  That's the opposite of an absolutist view of free speech; it's a completely asymmetric view of free speech.

Free speech absolutists don't ban links to sites they don't like.

[Royal☭]

Well, it's absolutist in so far as reddit is concerned about reddit. I meant it more in the general sense of "Free speech includes the right to harass people and if you don't let people harass each other then all our rights are in danger." Which is the defense reddit uses for never taking down those boards. The fact they're blocking Gawker links just makes them hilariously hypocritical.

[Thad]

Well, it's absolutist in so far as reddit is concerned about reddit. I meant it more in the general sense of "Free speech includes the right to harass people and if you don't let people harass each other then all our rights are in danger."

Well, yes.  But if you're going to be an absolutist you have to recognize other people's ability to harass you back.

"You can't criticize me because FREE SPEECH" is not a pro-free speech position; it's a defense used by glass-jawed fuckwits who can dish it out but can't take it.  And, it shouldn't have to be said, fundamentally misunderstands what "free speech" actually means.


EDIT: Oh hey, Ken at Popehat weights in.

Quoting the introductory paragraph of each section:

Private Is Not the Same As Public: The First Amendment to the United States Constitution limits the actions of the government. It does not limit the actions of private individuals. If you're an ass on the internet, and a journalist (or "journalist") or angry nutball researches the traces you've left on the internet and reveals your true identity, your First Amendment rights have not been violated.

Speech Is Not Censorship: Put another way, as we often say here, speech is not tyranny. Freedom of speech does not (and cannot, under any coherent legal or philosophical approach) involve freedom from criticism. Free speech does not mean "I have a right to say whatever I want without social consequences." That point is worth emphasizing because there seems to be a significant Reddit subculture that stubbornly denies it, and views criticism as despicable and a violation of free speech norms. These people are silly.

Ashattery Is Not A Zero-Sum Game: Put another way, in a fight between Frick and Frack, we can recognize that Frick is an asshole without diminishing our ability to recognize that Frack is an asshole. Is Gawker hypocritical when it expresses outrage about creepers? Yes. Gawker is, in fact, full of people who are relentlessly creepifying about women and kids and sex. Our ability to recognize that is not diminished by recognizing, and calling out, that Reddit has bustling pedophile, creeper, and bigot communities worthy of contempt. We can think both things at once.

The Internet Is Not Private: You're a fool if you think it is. The internet makes it easier, not harder, to figure out who you are, because the internet preserves your activities and allows your critics to crowdsource efforts to identify you.

Well worth reading the whole thing.

[Büge]

At least 4chan never pretended to be anything more than a cesspool of hate and perversion.

Except for that Anonymous debacle. And when they went against the Scientologists. And...

But see, them flying their freak flag high makes it all the more impressive when they band together to do important things. I dunno, maybe it's a broken clock thing.

[Catloaf]

At least 4chan never pretended to be anything more than a cesspool of hate and perversion.

Except for that Anonymous debacle. And when they went against the Scientologists. And...

But see, them flying their freak flag high makes it all the more impressive when they band together to do important things. I dunno, maybe it's a broken clock thing.

In their defense, I'm pretty sure a certain portion of them are pretending to be bigoted perverts when they actually aren't, or at least aren't as bad.  But 4chan users/Anonymous are a nebulous and heterogeneous bunch, at least if you include the lurkers.