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Author Topic: RING RING RING TAP YOUR PHONE  (Read 8846 times)

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Thad

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Re: RING RING RING TAP YOUR PHONE
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2008, 10:52:20 AM »

And, as mentioned earlier, the SCOTUS has already made it clear it doesn't intend to take cases like these.

We're pretty much fucked.  Thanks, Democrats.

Anybody have a roll call?  This is probably going to be the difference between me voting Mitchell again and leaving the House section blank.
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Arc

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Re: RING RING RING TAP YOUR PHONE
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2008, 11:03:42 AM »

Roll Call

NAY
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YAY
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Thad

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Re: RING RING RING TAP YOUR PHONE
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2008, 11:42:21 AM »

Yeah, I figured as much.

Bears repeating:

Quote
I'd like to underscore the fact that in 2006, when the Congress was controlled by Bill Frist and Denny Hastert, the administration tried to get a bill passed legalizing warrantless eavesdropping and telecom amnesty, but was unable. They had to wait until the Congress was controlled by Steny Hoyer, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid to accomplish that.
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MadMAxJr

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Re: RING RING RING TAP YOUR PHONE
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2008, 12:10:28 PM »

Mildly curious who the one red voting NAY is.  I answered my own question.
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Thad

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Re: RING RING RING TAP YOUR PHONE
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2008, 10:49:06 PM »

Dodd and Feingold threatening filibuster.  I don't expect it to matter -- from the beginning of the thread:

RING RING RING RING RING RING RING

The Senate amendment to remove retroactive immunity to telecom companies for their warrentless wire-tapping shenanigans has failed today, with 31 votes YEA and 67 votes NAY.

[...]

Dodd (D-CT), who was leading on stripping out the immunity, needed 51 votes for the amendment to correctly pass, and now would need 40 votes to sustain a filibuster on a conference resolution.

I doubt Dodd's going to have MORE supporters than last time.  Figure Clinton in for Kennedy leaves him even; that still means he has to lose nobody and gain 9 votes.  Not gonna happen.
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Thad

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Re: RING RING RING TAP YOUR PHONE
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2008, 10:55:53 PM »

Bob Ostertag has a suggestion:

Quote
Imagine how inspired you would have been if, instead of turning and running, Obama was interrupting his campaign schedule to fly to Washington and lead the filibuster against the FISA legislation. Take the money donate it instead to Russ Feingold, the senator who is leading the struggle. Then tell everyone you know to do the same.

This will be simple and effective:

* This won't be a vote against Obama. It will be a vote for the US Constitution and for political courage.

* It won't help McCain, and it will strengthen the part of the Democratic Party that will do what Obama said he would do but now won't.

* We will be able to measure our success by the size of the bump in contributions to the Feingold campaign fund.

* It is a no risk deal. If no one does it except you and me, we have still given some money to the senator who is actually out front leading on this. And if lots of others do it to, we will be making a statement that might reverberate nationally.

And a followup.
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Arc

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Re: RING RING RING TAP YOUR PHONE
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2009, 08:05:19 PM »

Countdown w/ Keith Olbermann Exclusive: NSA whistleblower confirms access and monitoring of all civilian communications. Journalists targeted, everything collected. Video only, sorry Zed.

Shit meet fan?
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Romosome

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Re: RING RING RING TAP YOUR PHONE
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2009, 10:46:12 PM »

Partial transcript via Dailykos

Quote
One of the things that could be done was you could take something that was part of the Department of Defense, make it part of the intelligence community, and put a caveat to that, and make that whatever the intelligence community is doing for support will ultimately be given a different caveat. So when the defense committees on the Hill come calling, you say, you can't look at that because that's an intelligence program.

OLBERMANN: Right.

TICE: But when the intelligence program comes calling, you say you can't look at that because it is a Department of Defense program.

OLBERMANN: Right.

TICE: So you basically have a little shell game that you are playing back and forth.

OLBERMANN: It's brilliant in its simplicity. It's wonderful in its simplicity in a different context.
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Brentai

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Re: RING RING RING TAP YOUR PHONE
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2009, 11:07:43 PM »

That's... one hell of a stealth burn.  Somewhere, Backburner Pyro whistles in appreciation.
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Thad

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Re: RING RING RING TAP YOUR PHONE
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2009, 08:22:40 PM »

...it's pretty much the same thing Cheney did when he claimed to be part of neither the Executive nor Legislative Branch.

...Or what, according to Douglas Adams, Graham Chapman used to do: he'd carry a California and an England driver's license, and any time he got pulled over, he'd show the foreign one and explain that he was just on his way to the airport.
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JDigital

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Re: RING RING RING TAP YOUR PHONE
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2009, 01:30:39 AM »

Or US contractors in Iraq who weren't subject to US law, but didn't have to answer to Iraqi police either.

Hell, I do this. I'm a British citizen when it's time to be proud that Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie are my countrymen, but whenever Gordon Brown announces another harebrained government CCTV database I'm quick to point out that I'm actually Irish.
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Zaratustra

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Re: RING RING RING TAP YOUR PHONE
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2009, 04:37:05 AM »

Kazz

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Re: RING RING RING TAP YOUR PHONE
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2009, 05:40:22 AM »

Not shocked.  The precedent being set is still terrifying, but each actual case appears to pertain to terrorism investigations.  If Obama did anything less, he'd be accused of letting the terrorists off the hook and there would probably be a lot of things getting fire set to them.

and anyway he said in his speech
Quote
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals.
and that means he won't be mean to us.

also ONLY THE GUILTY HAVE ANYTHING TO FEAR OK

also you're brazilian
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Arc

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Re: RING RING RING TAP YOUR PHONE
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2009, 08:29:12 AM »

Not shocking, since having the case stayed is only natural with no Attorney General, nor Solicitor General, in office.
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Brentai

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Re: RING RING RING TAP YOUR PHONE
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2009, 11:18:09 AM »

I suppose this really isn't the time for Barack Obama to be taking powers away from himself.

Still not very justified.
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Arc

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Re: RING RING RING TAP YOUR PHONE
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2009, 11:29:11 AM »

To be clear (as the Wired writer is not), the Obama Administration has taken no actual legal action on domestic spying as of yet.

Telecom immunity appears to still be on the table, in line with Obama's erroneous FISA position from last summer.
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Thad

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Re: RING RING RING TAP YOUR PHONE
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2009, 10:59:02 PM »

...you mean Obama might still have exactly the same position he did a few months ago?

Weird.
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jsnlxndrlv

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Re: RING RING RING TAP YOUR PHONE
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2009, 09:13:19 PM »

Obama DOJ claims "sovereign immunity" to any lawsuits brought forth over illegal government surveillance unless you agree to tell the rest of the class what you were talking about.

Basically, uh, you don't have the right to communicate in any way without Uncle Sam knowing exactly what's being said.

I guess he also has the power to turn off the internet now.  (Link goes to PDF)
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Arc

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Re: RING RING RING TAP YOUR PHONE
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2009, 07:51:56 AM »

"sovereign immunity"

OK, yeah, they're purposefully trying to lose the case at this point.

:perfect:
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Transportation

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Re: RING RING RING TAP YOUR PHONE
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2009, 03:43:03 PM »

I am somehow doubting that Obama's terrible arguments for this are some kind of grand scheme to intentionally lose. Instead of him just using a "proven" argument for a maintaining current presidential powers, which is less contrived.

You're probably kidding, but I've seen this argument put forth seriously so :shrug:
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