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Author Topic: New Doctor Who  (Read 45778 times)

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Mothra

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #360 on: May 17, 2010, 12:59:59 PM »

What? You really didn't like this one?

Comparing this to Turn fucking Left is a crime, Thad.
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Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #361 on: May 17, 2010, 01:23:43 PM »

I liked it all right.  Not my favorite of the season but perfectly decent.

You really don't see any similarities to Turn Left?  Companion forced to choose between a life on the TARDIS and a life on Earth, all of which turns out to be caused by [spoiler]a psychic parasite[/spoiler]?
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Mothra

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #362 on: May 17, 2010, 01:39:58 PM »

I dunno, Turn Left was ALL JUST A DREAM whereas Amy's Choice was a shared experience based on and around elements of all characters, with the Doctor himself as the antagonist. I see one as fairly significant and interesting character development, and the other as a throwaway one-off filler episode.

Donna just dreamed all that because of SPACE BEETLE, here, it was something they, or even just the Doctor, was actively doing. Like this is their subconscious made manifest, rather than a bullshit Voyager episode revolving entirely around showing off Martha as some kind of future badass and not, you know, the character we actually know up until that point.
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Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #363 on: May 17, 2010, 09:12:53 PM »

I dunno, Turn Left was ALL JUST A DREAM whereas Amy's Choice was a shared experience based on and around elements of all characters, with the Doctor himself as the antagonist. I see one as fairly significant and interesting character development, and the other as a throwaway one-off filler episode.

Hardly throwaway filler.  It was pretty essential in developing the "why the Doctor needs companions" meme.

Donna just dreamed all that because of SPACE BEETLE

Which is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from space ROCKS.  I mean, duh.  One's a beetle, the other is rocks.

here, it was something they, or even just the Doctor, was actively doing.

"Actively doing" mostly means running and arguing.

Like this is their subconscious made manifest, rather than a bullshit Voyager episode revolving entirely around showing off Martha as some kind of future badass and not, you know, the character we actually know up until that point.

I wouldn't say that was the thrust of Turn Left at all.  Turn Left was "What if the Doctor didn't have somebody to tell him to calm the fuck down?"  And was much more a Donna episode than a Martha episode.

But yeah, certainly this one was better, and got into the characters' psyches more.  I mean, we don't really learn anything we didn't already know about Rory, but Amy's fire and the Doctor's self-doubt and self-loathing were front-and-center.


Other thoughts: is the title of every episode mentioned in the episode dialogue?  That's why I'm going to have to become Superman IV: The Quest for Peace.

It also seems like the opening titles change very slightly too (both the visuals and the sound levels), but I could be full of shit on that.
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Mothra

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #364 on: May 18, 2010, 07:02:57 AM »

Actively doing in the sense that the Doctor's subconscious was actively trying to kill himself and Rory, whom he wanted out of the picture. The Doctor himself was the actual antagonist this time around, which made the Dream Master hugely interesting (at least to me). I like that someone as intelligent and observant as him could be villainishly manipulative if he was just slightly more selfish. As if for the Doctor to be as good as he is, he has to carry just as much potential to be a petty dominating fucker - it's just a matter of how he uses the power he has.

The Dream Master is actually what I wished the Master was - an selfish Doctor motivated by petty self-interest and jealousy rather than some cartoonishly evil cosmic dominance plan. This villain uses all that he knows and learns to manipulate where the Doctor uses it to selflessly aid others.

Donna just dreamed all that because of SPACE BEETLE

Which is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from space ROCKS.  I mean, duh.  One's a beetle, the other is rocks.

I suppose it would be better to say one is a WHAT IF THE DOCTOR DIED one-shot whereas the other is what is actually happening in the Doctor's head right now. One carries some kind of lasting implications for the future while the other is tidily resolved and disregarded by prying a beetle off her back.

Also I'm still not convinced that the space rocks were actually the cause of it all. When he brought those out, my first thought was that he's lying to the two of them to cover up something he's ashamed of. It did seem mighty convenient of him to just wake up and find the cause of the problem immediately, whisking it out the door along with everything else that had happened. Could just be over thinking it, though.
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Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #365 on: May 20, 2010, 08:58:19 PM »

The Dream Master is actually what I wished the Master was - an selfish Doctor motivated by petty self-interest and jealousy rather than some cartoonishly evil cosmic dominance plan.

So, the Rani.

Mind, I've only seen one Rani serial, and it sucked.  But that's still pretty much the basis of her character.

Actually, damn near every evil Time Lord.

Not a bad thing to have the Doctor fill that role, necessarily, especially given that no OTHER evil Time Lords are likely to show up in the immediate future.

Incidentally, a bit of elaboration on The Forgotten, since I appear to be the only one who's read it: the Doctor loses his memory of his previous regenerations but finds himself in a museum full of their artifacts; as he slowly goes through them he recovers his memories (and tells a neat little eight-page story for each version of himself that involves the artifact and some sort of theme).

There's some sort of evil shadowy figure with a goatee manipulating him; obvious red herring is that it's the Master, but when he finally shows himself, he's actually the Doctor himself, WITH AN EVIL GOATEE!  CLIFFHANGER ENDING!  Except no, it's actually another bug, and the whole thing's happening in the Doctor's head.  And he manifests his previous companions and, finally, all ten versions of himself in a big two-page spread that would have been more awesome if Pia Guerra hadn't had to leave halfway through the series and leave it to a less talented artist.

Anyway, again, I don't think the guy who wrote this ep is even aware of the comic, and it's most likely a big coincidence, but the "Whole thing is happening in his head and is a reflection of his subconscious" thing was used to pretty great effect there.

I suppose it would be better to say one is a WHAT IF THE DOCTOR DIED one-shot whereas the other is what is actually happening in the Doctor's head right now. One carries some kind of lasting implications for the future while the other is tidily resolved and disregarded by prying a beetle off her back.

Well, but I think both resolve around the dark side of the Doctor, too.  In Turn Left, the Doctor's dark side leads to his own doom because nobody's there to pull him back from the brink.  This one's different in that it's the Doctor himself who figures everything out at the last second (which seems to be #11's trademark, even moreso than the previous versions'), but I think it's safe to say Amy's selflessness affects his realization -- it's her name in the title, after all.

I think it's all part of the same "the Doctor needs his companions to help keep his darkness at bay" thing.

Except this time, they seem to be feeding his darkness, at well.  Or at least his guilt for how he treats them is.

Also I'm still not convinced that the space rocks were actually the cause of it all. When he brought those out, my first thought was that he's lying to the two of them to cover up something he's ashamed of. It did seem mighty convenient of him to just wake up and find the cause of the problem immediately, whisking it out the door along with everything else that had happened. Could just be over thinking it, though.

Hm, I like that theory a whole lot better.  But any way you slice it, it's a pretty great picture of the Doctor's doubt and self-loathing, and we're going to see that develop a good bit over the remainder of the season.  Smith said in an interview that he thinks the Doctor is running to get away from the darkness and the blood on his hands; I think that's certainly been true of all three versions in the new series.
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Bal

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #366 on: May 22, 2010, 10:54:03 PM »

This one is fun, but I admit I raged when I realized it was a two-parter. I need instant gratification, god damn it.
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Niku

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #367 on: May 23, 2010, 07:11:27 AM »

I'm not looking forward to intrigued geologist woman dying a horrible death.  :(
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Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #368 on: May 23, 2010, 09:49:01 PM »

What are YOU doing here?
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Mothra

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #369 on: May 24, 2010, 04:13:28 AM »

You know, I was thoroughly uninterested in the mystery they've got going on here, but I'm somehow still enjoying the hell out of this. I think it speak a lot to the strength of the cast right now.

I love all of these characters.
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Bal

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #370 on: May 24, 2010, 06:10:14 AM »

It's not really a mystery anyway. Like, the Beast Below was kind of a mystery, but this one gets more or less solved in the first half hour of a two part episode.
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Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #371 on: May 24, 2010, 05:39:42 PM »

But it's still dropping hints in the overarching narrative.

I'm about 99% sure that Amy and Rory's future selves are going to be important later.

I think the Doctor's observation that time can be rewritten is at the core of what's going on here, and I suspect that Moffat's setting up a Prisoner-of-Azkaban-the-Movie-style story where we're seeing events from one perspective and will see them from another perspective later on.

Sort of like Bad Wolf, except less stupid.
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Mothra

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #372 on: May 24, 2010, 06:33:11 PM »

But it's still dropping hints in the overarching narrative.

I'm about 99% sure that Amy and Rory's future selves are going to be important later.

I think the Doctor's observation that time can be rewritten is at the core of what's going on here, and I suspect that Moffat's setting up a Prisoner-of-Azkaban-the-Movie-style story where we're seeing events from one perspective and will see them from another perspective later on.

Sort of like Bad Wolf, except less stupid.

God, I hope so. I would fucking love a solid time travel plot in the season finale.
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Royal☭

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #373 on: May 24, 2010, 07:12:10 PM »

Woah woah woah, time travel in Doctor Who?  Ludicrous.  Next you'll hope for more outer space or strange world adventures, rather than 5 out of 7 stories taking place on Earth.

Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #374 on: May 24, 2010, 08:46:10 PM »

And where the fuck is Amy's mom?  I want several hours of each season to be devoted to the companion's mom, god dammit!
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Bal

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #375 on: May 24, 2010, 10:29:00 PM »

If they actually did that it WOULD be pretty fantastic.
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Misha

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #376 on: May 30, 2010, 02:16:28 PM »

 :sadpanda:
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Mothra

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #377 on: May 30, 2010, 04:58:31 PM »

Decent enough episode, fantastic ending.

TWEEEST
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Niku

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #378 on: May 30, 2010, 07:52:38 PM »

[spoiler]lulling us into a false sense of security with such an old fashioned set of episodes was a dick move.[/spoiler]
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Bal

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #379 on: June 01, 2010, 08:12:29 AM »

Space fish and lizard men, woo, this is some good, safe Doctor-HOLY SHIT
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