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Author Topic: New Doctor Who  (Read 45805 times)

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Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #660 on: September 01, 2012, 09:09:12 PM »

It's not like I'm grasping at straws here. That's how I read the scenes when I saw them.

Me too, but at this point I kinda DO feel like I'm filling in blanks and making excuses.

I'm sure we haven't heard the last of this -- I don't see this ending any other way but "Amy and Rory get to have a kid after all."  (And no, I can't say I find Moffat's "One of them is going to die, no, for realsies this time" protestations convincing.)

That io9 interview I linked ended thusly:

Quote
I know Amy addressed it a little last season, but how is Amy's emotional state since she was never allowed to physically raise Melody from a baby? Even though she and Rory grew up with Melody she never actually raised her as a baby. How are you going to deal with that this season?

Karen Gillan: Well actually, what's really interesting is there's a pretty huge revelation along those lines. I can't tell you anything about it. But yea, we are going to learn something very, very vital to that story line. And it's going to be dealt with through that. We're going to see a whole new side of Amy and Rory and their relationship, in the first episode.

Could be she's just referring to what we've already seen, but I'm guessing there's plenty more to come.

I suppose another way of looking at this is that he's finally picking up the threads he left dangling last season -- it really was kinda bullshit how he resolved the "Amy doesn't get her daughter back" plot by having Melody be their childhood friend we've never heard of when she's actually got to be in her thirties or something if she's been wandering around since the Nixon Administration.  So, you know, actually showing that Amy's still got some serious fucking mental trauma from the whole experience that she needs to work through is actually a potentially positive development both in her character and Moffat's storytelling, but...it's going to need more.
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Bal

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #661 on: September 01, 2012, 09:21:39 PM »

I felt like this was the first act of Amy's reconciling the events of last season, given how fucked up she ought to be, and apparently is.
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Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #662 on: September 01, 2012, 09:31:19 PM »

I sure hope so.

But I think Moffat's got a history of introducing compelling character moments and then getting distracted by shiny things -- like the Doctor himself.
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Misha

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #663 on: September 01, 2012, 09:36:57 PM »

My biggest problem is all the shit this episode just made up about daleks. They now have a hivemind thing, they now put their "wounded" in an asylum, for some reason they have fucking nanogenes that turn humans into Daleks.  Forehead-glow human/daleks were also dumb. I understand Doctor Who is all about inventing crazy new stuff for each episode, and bringing back Daleks over and over again, but they don't necessarily have to be in the same episode.
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Bal

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #664 on: September 01, 2012, 09:43:36 PM »

I liked the puppets, and the kind-of-hivemind explained more things than it asspulled, but there was some ass pulling. I kind of miss the days when Doctor Who was about crazy shit happening, and not really caring about making sense.
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Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #665 on: September 02, 2012, 07:32:04 AM »

for some reason they have fucking nanogenes that turn humans into Daleks.  Forehead-glow human/daleks were also dumb.

While I definitely agree that the humans with the Dalek eyes were the hokiest thing about the episode, they're also the one that makes the most sense building on Dalek history.  We've seen humans being turned into Daleks since, what, Revelation of the Daleks in 1985?  And humans turning into Daleks/Daleks turning into humans has been present in pretty much every Dalek episode of this series.
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Niku

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #666 on: September 02, 2012, 12:45:52 PM »

All I could think of when the eyestalk came out was "this is so, so, so much better than the fucking Human Dalek in New York", so sliding scale.
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Beat Bandit

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #667 on: September 03, 2012, 02:54:48 AM »

Dalek Sec died for our sins ):
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Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #668 on: September 03, 2012, 09:14:45 AM »

I dunno, I thought the "Dalek head on a human body" was some good creature work, even if the rest of the story really wasn't up to snuff.

Obviously there's a downside to actually SHOWING Daleks more than occasionally; do it too often and they lose their impact.  The original Dalek serial showed a claw creeping out as a cliffhanger ending; one of the (much) later ones (Resurrection?) had one do a face-hugger thing and leap out of its destroyed armor to attack somebody, but you didn't get a good look at it then either.  I think Dalek was the first time we actually got a good look at one, and it was just fantastically done in that one.  While I think the creature effect was neat in Daleks in Manhattan, I definitely agree that having some dude with a Dalek face just walking around lessens the impact of seeing a Dalek face.
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Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #669 on: September 04, 2012, 07:09:28 AM »

(Alternately -- and the point that her character's name is Clara, not Oswin, would seem to support this -- it could just be that they're double-dipping like they did with Martha and Amy.)

The more I think about it the harder that is to believe, even if it is the simplest explanation.

Because they kept it under wraps that she was going to be in this episode.  And they're smart enough to know that's going to fuel fan speculation, and, while Moffat's track record isn't as unassailable as it was before he had to do this shit full-time, I still think he's way too good a showman to let that kind of buzz go on for three months and then go "Nah, guys, just fuckin' with you; she's just playing a different character."

Even if Oswin and Clara were originally conceived as different characters and the dual-casting decision came later, I'm willing to bet there were rewrites to accomodate it.  And something more substantial than "she was Martha's cousin" or "Romana decided to regenerate herself to look like Princess Astra".

It would be better still, of course, to think that it WASN'T a plan that came later and Moffat always intended for there to be some out to save Oswin after all.  It does seem to fit his MO.

Hoping, too, that he's not rehashing River's origin and having the Doctor meet her for the first time when she's about to die and then meet her earlier self in a later episode.  Though, regardless of the circumstances of their eventual meeting, it's quite possible he won't recognize her -- he never did get to actually SEE what she'd looked like as a human, after all.  (Heard her voice, though -- and given that *I* knew I recognized her voice from somewhere, it would be a bit disappointing for the Doctor to once again be less observant than I am.)

MEANWHILE: Gaiman accepts Hugo for The Doctr's Wife, and

Quote
And I did mention during my awards speech that only a madman or a fool would tempt fate by doing it again, having won. And that I am now on my third draft...

Bleeding Cool suggests that the episode may be intended for the second half of the just-started series...are they really planning to broadcast episodes early next year that haven't even started filming yet?

If so, that would certainly support my supposition that, even if Clara hadn't originally been planned to be connected to Oswin, there was plenty of time for rewrites to make that connection.

EDIT: Fellow Hugo winner Charlie Jane Anders confirms that Gaiman says his episode is slated for the second half of season 7.  So, while that doesn't mean it WILL be part of the second half of season 7, it would certainly suggest that yes, the current season, and specifically Clara's arc, is still being written.
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Sharkey

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #670 on: September 08, 2012, 08:59:55 PM »

So... "Solomon" is a greedy, covetous old bastard who looks like Gargamel. Didn't catch him eating babies or poisoning wells, but he did shoot a puppy. Also, crippled, so he's in the same club as Davros and Lumic. And of course strong women are still bargaining chips who just need a man who confuses his dick with a gun, and in this context Amy presumes to lecture about gender politics.

I'd like to get wound up about all of that, but it was mostly fun. Can't help feeling like Mitchell and Webb could have been better used, and that "balls" line was just cringe inducing, but eh, fuckit. This one does what it says on the tin and I had a good time with it. It's just... Jesus wept, guys. Try to be at least a tiny bit self aware about this stuff. It's like a racist, sexist, colonialist friend describing this weird dream he had. But you listen anyway because you might be in it and there were dinosaurs.
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Lottel

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #671 on: September 08, 2012, 09:57:47 PM »

These last two episodes feel very RTD-y to anyone else?
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Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #672 on: September 10, 2012, 06:31:49 AM »

Now that you mention it, yes, exactly!

Yeah, I did think it was a fun, somewhat problematic, largely forgettable episode.  The new characters were all cliches but the actors had enough fun with those cliches that I enjoyed them.  If I were to pick the biggest flaw of the episode it's that it kept implying there were much better episodes happening around the edges that don't actually exist.  (Seriously, I could watch an entire season of The Doctor and Mr. Weasley Tour the Universe.)

The Doctor's increasing brutality is building toward something, right?  I mean, it's gotta be.

I like the idea of longer and longer gaps between his visits, too.  It just hit me that that's a riff on the ending of Peter Pan.
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Lottel

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #673 on: September 10, 2012, 10:59:50 AM »

Honestly, I kind of preferred these styles of episodes. Nothing looming overhead, no long pauses while the Doctor thinks about the season finale. The constant tension and build up is nice every now and then, but I'm hoping this season is more... I want to say airy.

If that means Moffat channels a bit of RTD, that's fine with me.

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Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #674 on: September 10, 2012, 11:13:12 AM »

Oh, I'm all for a more episodic format that doesn't keep upping stakes or building a big arc.  I prefer it, in fact.  But I still think these episodes are less-than-ideal examples of same.
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Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #675 on: September 11, 2012, 01:04:18 PM »

io9: Do we already know the theme of this season of Doctor Who?

Charlie Jane Anders points out major recurring bits we've already acknowledged here: an increasing distance from the Ponds, and people forgetting who the Doctor is.

A commenter named Blue Hinter takes it farther in a couple of posts:

Quote from: Blue Hinter
As of right now, you could blame it all on somebody's superhuman hacking ability, though I'm hopeful in the next episode, we'll see more direct evidence of the effect spreading to human memories. (possibly with a "who was that bowtied man?" variant, where the population of Mercy forget the Doctor the moment he leaves town)

Personally, my suspicions point straight back to The Silence.
We already know they can make themselves memory-proof. What if they've found a way to do the same to The Doctor, and it's all part of the plan to make sure the first question never gets answered? (first remove the man, then remove the myth?) It would be a clever cheat on Moffat's part if "Doctor Who?" came to be less about knowing the Doctor's real name, and more about the man the entire universe has forgotten trying to reassert his identity.

Also, if you were wondering how Clara and Oswin could be the same person and not know the Doctor... there you go. Problem solved.

Quote from: Blue Hinter
I've been having the same discussion over on OG, and somebody pointed out the brilliant idea that "The Question" asked will be by The Doctor, for The Doctor -- that the forgetting effect will finally end up spreading to him as well, and he will end up forgetting who he is (The "fall of the 11th" mentioned by Dorian)

If so, the Doctor's oddly undoctorly behavior in both this episode and the next, plus all those "remember" and "Doctor Who" lines Moffat has been scattering across the last three seasons will finally pay off in a way none of us expected.

Hm -- that WOULD be much more interesting than River or the Daleks asking it.
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Sharkey

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #676 on: September 12, 2012, 06:29:28 PM »

Personally, I'd like it if The Question turned out to have a comma in the middle.

... hm. We don't have a "what a twist" emoticon.

:disapprove:

That'll do.
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Lottel

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #677 on: September 12, 2012, 07:59:56 PM »

I laughed so hard I shot two ice cubes out of my nose.
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Sharkey

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #678 on: September 15, 2012, 03:01:53 PM »

From the trailers I figured this'd be the most horseshit of the lot. Figures it'd end up being my favorite out of the last couple seasons. Not so much riddled with cliches as reveling in them, and the pacing actually worked when they weren't trying to cram in a dinosaur chase or whatever every five minutes. Made time for actual, you know, character development and shit. And I love the almost cartoonish portrayal of Americans. Good times.

Then again, the batwing doors on all the bars around here might be coloring my judgment a bit.

Oh, and of course it's Toby Whitehouse. I'd only just started on Being Human last night. Had to skip back and check the opening credits when I was about halfway through. Hell if the guy doesn't have a noticeable style with the dialogue.
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Royal☭

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #679 on: September 15, 2012, 03:48:30 PM »

Didn't even notice that was Ben Browder as Isaac there.
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