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Author Topic: New Doctor Who  (Read 44803 times)

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Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #960 on: December 05, 2013, 12:29:41 PM »

I wouldn't rule it out.  I was still watching them on the Sci-Fi Channel at that point.
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Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #961 on: December 08, 2013, 04:30:05 AM »

The Time of the Doctor: BBC1 Christmas 2013 Trailer Doctor Who

Going back to May, with spoiler tags removed:

Anyway, let's go back to the prophecy:

Quote
DORIUM: "On the fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the Eleventh, when no living creature may speak falsely or fail to give answer, a question will be asked. A question that must never, ever be answered."
THE DOCTOR: "Silence will fall when the question is asked..."
DORIUM: "Silence must fall" would be a better translation. The Silence are determined that the question must never be answered. The Doctor must never reach Trenzalore.
THE DOCTOR: I don't understand? What's it got do do with me?
DORIUM: The first question. The oldest question in the universe, hidden in plain sight. Would you like to know what it is?
THE DOCTOR: Yes.
DORIUM: "Doctor who?"

I think it's fair to say that GI shouting "Doctor Who?" wasn't the question any more than the Master's four knocks were what signaled the Tenth Doctor's doom.

Are we to reasonably assume that this was the Fall of the Eleventh?  He certainly did fall out of the sky, and later fell to the ground, and finally fell into the rift.  Metaphorically speaking, you could say this was the "fall of the Eleventh" in that we discovered he's not really the Eleventh at all.  Or, as I said, "fall of the Eleventh" could be something that's going to happen to Tennant in November, since he's the secret real eleventh incarnation.

It would certainly seem that Clara asked the question, if not verbatim -- she asked "Who's that?  Who is he?"

As for "on the fields of Trenzalore [...] when no living creature may speak falsely or fail to give answer", well, even if they were inside the Doctor's own head there it sure LOOKED like they were still on the fields of Trenzalore.  And if they were inside the Doctor's head -- or the nexus of his timelines, or whatever the hell that was -- maybe THAT'S the reason he couldn't speak falsely or fail to answer.

Or not.  We don't know if the question's been asked yet or not; we don't know if the Eleventh has fallen or not; we don't know if this was the point when no living creature could speak falsely or fail to give answer.  Maybe that's what we just watched, or maybe it's still to come.  As always, Moffat answers some questions but raises others.

And then there are the cracks.  This episode certainly alluded to them again, and last week's had Mr. Clever noting that people could find the Doctor by looking for the holes he left.  I think all that stuff's definitely related to the secret.  And we still don't know what "Silence will fall" means.

So yeah, sure looking like none of the things from the prophecy happened on their last trip to Trenzalore at the end of last season, and all that's still forthcoming.
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Bal

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #962 on: December 25, 2013, 10:00:29 AM »

Well, that was really something. I'm pretty sure I liked it, but I'm still digesting everything that happened.
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McDohl

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #963 on: December 25, 2013, 10:12:11 AM »

Kinda bummed that I missed it.  Oh well, Amazon had a digital copy of Day of the Doctor up pretty shortly afterward, so that's something to look forward to. 
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Smiler

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #964 on: December 25, 2013, 02:57:50 PM »

Ahahaha it happened the spoilers were true.

[spoiler]The doctor is Goku Clara summoned the time lord energy so he could use the spirit bomb[/spoiler]
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Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #965 on: December 25, 2013, 04:32:57 PM »

Well, that was really something. I'm pretty sure I liked it, but I'm still digesting everything that happened.

Pretty much this.  It wasn't as pitch-perfect as the last two, but it's a mostly-satisfying closer to Smith's arc.

He cheated a bit on the specifics of the prophecy (remember that whole bit about failing to answer?), and Smiler was on the money when he predicted that the conclusions to the Silence arc and the regeneration limit felt like they were tacked on.  I don't think Trenzalore was what any of us was expecting, but I see that as a positive TBH.  And Moffat's proven quite good at [spoiler]making you believe that a very long time has passed in the span of a single episode[/spoiler].  As the ending to a fairy tale, I think it all worked out quite nicely, and also left Capaldi with a pretty clean slate.

While still leaving him with his major objective -- the Gallifrey plot has been advanced but hasn't been resolved, which I think is a good call.
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Royal☭

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #966 on: December 25, 2013, 04:59:09 PM »

So we're just gonna tiptoe around the Doctor being a sex offender now, right?

Bal

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #967 on: December 25, 2013, 06:18:22 PM »

The fuck are you talking about?
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Sharkey

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #968 on: December 25, 2013, 06:24:24 PM »

For a split second after the fireworks I absolutely expected Capaldi to jump up and shout "Fuckity bye, ya cunts!"

"If you're an alien, how come you sound like you're from Scotland?"
"Lots of planets have a Scotland."
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Royal☭

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #969 on: December 25, 2013, 11:24:19 PM »

The fuck are you talking about?

I'm being flippant, but did you miss the first part of the episode where he greets Clara and her family completely naked.

Episode was surprisingly low-key for a regeneration episode. Tidied up some lingering mysteries throughout Smith's run , but for the most part it was about the Doctor in one town for the entire episode. No narrative fireworks, no time travel gimmicks, [spoiler]even the large Dalek invasion at the end felt more like a means to an end than the buildup of the plot[/spoiler]. Just a more quiet capper to the arc that started in Name of the Doctor.

Smiler

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #970 on: December 26, 2013, 02:58:03 AM »

I'm really surprised that the worst thing in my opinion that happened in the episode is that [spoiler]we learned what was behind the Doctor's door from The God Complex.[/spoiler] I guess it's not the worst thing it could have been. I mean its a pretty nightmarish thing, especially when you think about how the Doctor had to deal with it originally, but it was really nice to have it be a mystery.

Oh I guess what I posted last night was pretty shit too, but I still enjoyed it because pftttrfpfpftpft.
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Lottel

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #971 on: December 26, 2013, 04:04:29 AM »

I'm glad there was onscreen confirmation of me winning the argument with my friends that Matt Smith was actually 13.
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Smiler

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #972 on: December 26, 2013, 06:06:18 AM »

Man you couldn't have just linked all of the times Moffat confirmed that?
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Royal☭

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #973 on: December 26, 2013, 06:41:39 AM »

Moffat interviews aren't canon.

Sharkey

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #974 on: December 26, 2013, 11:12:43 AM »

I gave it a rewatch and you know, I absolutely adored that one. Maybe a bit much to cram into a single episode, but hell, I was never bored, and most of the bits that seem out of place in the middle tie in thematically by the end. Though I am annoyed that they "resolved" what was in his hotel room. I thought that was a pretty artful blank the way it was.

And then of course I have to hit the internet for corroborating opinions and I'll be damned if it doesn't already seem universally despised. The distinct possibility exists that I just have fuckall in common with what this show's fanbase expects.

Though it was a little distracting knowing both Smith and Gillian were wearing wigs. Had to rewind that bit a couple times to put it out of my mind.
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Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #975 on: December 26, 2013, 04:01:06 PM »

Episode was surprisingly low-key for a regeneration episode. Tidied up some lingering mysteries throughout Smith's run , but for the most part it was about the Doctor in one town for the entire episode. No narrative fireworks, no time travel gimmicks, [spoiler]even the large Dalek invasion at the end felt more like a means to an end than the buildup of the plot[/spoiler]. Just a more quiet capper to the arc that started in Name of the Doctor.

Yes, that's it exactly, and I don't think that's what anyone expected.  I can see why people would be disappointed, but I think I feel good about it.  How do you top the spectacle of the last two?  You don't, so you take a hard 180 and go for a smaller, more personal episode.

And you can gripe about the pyew-pyew stuff at the end, but the rules of regeneration are inconsistent as fuck anyway.  Is it any less of a deus ex machina than Eccleston's regeneration?  (No.  No it is not.  Eccleston's regeneration involved a literal deus ex machina.)

Hell, I love the bit at the end where [spoiler]he mocks the Daleks about how he's finally dying of old age[/spoiler].  Really gives rather a different cast to the grave-filled fields we saw in Name.  [spoiler]It wasn't a glorious battle; it was a massacre.

Sure seems like a whole lot of graves, for all that, though.[/spoiler]

I don't expect we'll ever get an explanation for what happens to the timeline now that Trenzalore presumably no longer has a giant TARDIS with the Doctor's timeline sitting inside it in stasis.  But that's okay.  Sometimes it's better not to get bogged down in continuity.
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Lottel

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #976 on: December 26, 2013, 04:17:56 PM »

[spoiler]It wasn't a glorious battle; it was a massacre.

Sure seems like a whole lot of graves, for all that, though.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]
Well, the battles took place over, what, a thousand years? The first time skip was three hundred years and the next few had him aging even faster so we can assume it happened over a long time?[/spoiler]

And if you add that on to what was already there from the last few seasons' throwaway lines [spoiler]then the Doctor has been Matt Smith for, like, 2000+ years.[/spoiler]
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Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #977 on: December 26, 2013, 04:42:33 PM »

I don't know that it's quite that long, but minimum 700.

Another thought on Moffat and the themes he plays with: Matt Smith's run has, consistently, been haunted by the image of a reluctant warrior who will one day die a violent death.  But the last two episodes have both used, at one point or another, the image of the Doctor living a peaceful, quiet, retired life.  Granted, occasionally punctuated by [spoiler]fucking hellfire raining down from the assembled armies of every monster race the show has ever produced[/spoiler], but you know, you've got to keep the show exciting.

The thematic significance of Night of the Doctor and Day of the Doctor isn't exactly subtle; it's right there in their titles.  The suggestion is that they're bookends, from the Doctor entering the Time War to the Doctor redeeming himself and rescuing his people.  The darkness and the guilt are lifted, and his future is bright again.  Not to say we won't see the Warrior Doctor persona again -- as I noted, the first time we saw Capaldi's face it was scowling -- but I think Moffat's really looking to shift the tone and the vibe here.

At least, insofar as we're looking at arcs at all.  The show's been mostly episodic through his entire run, really, and that's generally been a pretty good thing.  I think that's probably the thing people are cheesed-off about with this episode -- not only is it a regeneration episode, it's THE regeneration episode, resolving the limit; it's what Moffat's been building toward from day one and we get definitive answers on the cracks, who destroyed the TARDIS, the Silence falling when the question is asked -- all that stuff -- and ultimately it's all background noise in an episode that's another one of Moffat's quiet little fairy tales.  Didn't see that coming.  But the more I think about it, the more I like it.


ADDING: Smith also totally killed it playing [spoiler]an old man.  It's not old age makeup that sells a performance like that -- no disrespect to the makeup artists, who also did excellent work -- it's the physicality.  The stiff movements, the weakening voice.[/spoiler]  I was very impressed, and I hope he goes on to some good roles from here.
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Bal

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #978 on: December 26, 2013, 06:31:11 PM »

In a rare occurrence, I completely agree.
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Smiler

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #979 on: December 27, 2013, 03:04:26 AM »

Matt Smith had always managed to do a good job acting old. Just watch the end of The Big Bang again, he really sells being some guy who's 900 years old who's finally at his end even though he looks like he's in his 20s.

In regard to the other roles, I heard he was pretty good in American Psycho: The Musical.
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