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Author Topic: Final Fucking Fantasy  (Read 94934 times)

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Classic

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #140 on: August 19, 2008, 09:36:41 PM »

If you stat it... they will kill it?
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François

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #141 on: August 19, 2008, 10:46:34 PM »

Man I wish I could see those chat logs.

<elfdood2> brb puking
<loRDKIlL> lol i puked too
<loRDKIlL> 2 min ago
<m0rd0r> where r u jon
<m0rdor> jon? u pukin?
<m0rd0r> u pukin jon?
<jonast> wtf i just woke up
<loRDKIlL> lol u went 2 bed!! rotfl
<jonast> no asshole i just pulled my face of off my ketboard
<jonast> FUCK it its 9 already
<jonast> wtf
<m0rd0r> u alrite dude
<jonast> brb pukng
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Kashan

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #142 on: August 20, 2008, 09:24:04 AM »

Over eighteen hours to kill a single boss.

It turns out, the guys behind FFXI are completely fucking insane.  I don't know if Jonathan Blow knows anything about FFXI, but if he thinks WoW is "unethical" because you can choose to grind in it, he'd probably say FFXI is pure evil.

Oh hey, and I should mention that a similarly difficult boss called Absolute Virtue can kill an entire raid in one attack, as well as heal itself to full hit points.  It can do this at any time.  It's been around for over two years, and has only been killed legitimately like 3 times.

My understanding was that Absolute Virtue has never really been legitimately killed, as he had some sort of AI error where he just quit doing anything if you survived long enough.
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Classic

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #143 on: August 20, 2008, 09:30:51 AM »

HEY! Surviving that long is tough enough. Right!?
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Brentai

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #144 on: August 20, 2008, 10:10:37 AM »

Yeah, I'm going to have to go with the "you didn't really earn that" argument not really holding a lot of water.

Then again, it does mean that you just have to pretty much hold out and not attack for 18 hours.
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Kashan

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #145 on: August 20, 2008, 10:27:50 AM »

Yeah, I'm going to have to go with the "you didn't really earn that" argument not really holding a lot of water.

Then again, it does mean that you just have to pretty much hold out and not attack for 18 hours.

Less they didn't earn it and more it was intended to be harder.

The funny thing is SE claims they don't put any bosses into the game until a moderate sized play test group is able to down them, they even release videos and such. Only people have noticed the play testers doing impossible things during some of the videos and/or the video cuts our during some of the really hard moments of the fight.
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sei

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #146 on: August 20, 2008, 03:20:10 PM »

Everquest already did it.  There was this ghost dragon spawning event that could only be triggered once per server, and technically should have been unkillable.  At least one server actually did manage to pull it off, although much drama ensued between the players and the devs when the first time the dragon was despawned after nearly being killed.  If the devs really wanted it to be unkillable, they should have set the immortal flag.
^ refers to the Sleeper.

"The guild Conquest...was accused of using an exploit when fighting the third Warder. They were accused of having their raid under the bridge where the warder could not reach them while their main tank built aggro on the dragon without doing damage, so it couldn't start summoning."
::D:

"The guild was disbanded and all it's members suspended and two memebers were banned as they had previously been warned from similar exploitation."
 :sadpanda:
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Bongo Bill

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #147 on: August 20, 2008, 03:44:24 PM »

"The guild Conquest...was accused of using an exploit when fighting the third Warder. They were accused of having their raid under the bridge where the warder could not reach them while their main tank built aggro on the dragon without doing damage, so it couldn't start summoning."

So they were accused of... using strategy?
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...but is it art?

Detonator

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #148 on: August 20, 2008, 03:53:28 PM »

Any strategy that rewards ingenuity over outright grinding means you are cheating and will be banned.
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"Imagine punching somebody so hard that they turned into a door. Then you found out that's where ALL doors come from, and you got initiated into a murder club that makes doors. The stronger you punch, the better the door. So there are like super strong murderers who punch people into Venetian doors and shit"

sei

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #149 on: August 20, 2008, 04:04:01 PM »

"The guild Conquest...was accused of using an exploit when fighting the third Warder. They were accused of having their raid under the bridge where the warder could not reach them while their main tank built aggro on the dragon without doing damage, so it couldn't start summoning."

So they were accused of... using strategy?
Not the only time, either.

"...your main party will contain 1 Warlock & 1 Rogue and then 2 other classes dones't matter for summoning. The rogue will sneak past ALL the mobs and get right up to the main Lava boss. Right then ask the Warlock to summon the rogue, when the rogue gets the "Accept Summon" button he will go and smack the boss from behind and then port. OK get ready, because 2 minutes later the boss will arrive at the doorstep of the instance and he's tough! Conquest beat him legit but this way you can skip all the raid mobs. Enjoy. This may be patched in upcoming patch however as of now it works so use caution."
I'm too lazy to check whether Conquest pioneered the summon pull, but it was still pretty fun to read about, back when it was still news (and working and not a bannable offense).
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Brentai

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #150 on: August 20, 2008, 08:50:23 PM »

Berserk is amazingly useful in FFXII, I keep finding out.

Would probably get me banned if the game were online.
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Norondor

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #151 on: August 20, 2008, 08:51:36 PM »

Nega-Remedy is basically god tier, and makes most of the mark fights pretty much a walk.
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Brentai

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #152 on: August 20, 2008, 08:54:02 PM »

So basically, to make this game fair, you have to cheat all the time.

Somehow I had forgotten that this game was descended from FF Tactics.   ::(:
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Rosencrantz

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #153 on: August 20, 2008, 08:59:54 PM »

Berserk is amazingly useful in FFXII, I keep finding out.

Would probably get me banned if the game were online.

Berserk raises your speed slightly, and of course Haste increases it even more than that. But if you combine the two statuses, it increases your speed more than the two percentages put together. I basically won every boss fight by having one character healing and another casting statuses on my main fighter: Bubble, Haste, Berserk, Bravery, Protect, and so on.
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Brentai

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #154 on: August 20, 2008, 09:48:46 PM »

Not on me.  On them.

"lolz I keep running away"
"Yeah, why don't you come here and say that to my face, tough guy?"
"FEEL MY IMPOTENT RAGE!"
"BONK!"

"lolz I keep reducing your HP to single digits"
"Hey knucklehead, I'm talkin' to you!"
"FEEL THE WRATH OF MY LITTLE STICK!"
"BONK!"
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Romosome

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #155 on: August 20, 2008, 10:34:24 PM »

Over eighteen hours to kill a single boss.

It turns out, the guys behind FFXI are completely fucking insane.  I don't know if Jonathan Blow knows anything about FFXI, but if he thinks WoW is "unethical" because you can choose to grind in it, he'd probably say FFXI is pure evil.

Oh hey, and I should mention that a similarly difficult boss called Absolute Virtue can kill an entire raid in one attack, as well as heal itself to full hit points.  It can do this at any time.  It's been around for over two years, and has only been killed legitimately like 3 times.

The guild estimates that at the rate they were killing it it'd take another five or six hours to down, they just quit at 18 hours.  So roughly a boss that 24 hours to kill.

I'd just like to point out that this boss has something like 20 different forms, all with unique appearances and art and spells and abilities (correct me if I'm wrong and there's recycled stuff).  That's a big effort and a lot of man-hours dedicated to concept art, modeling, texture art and skinning, rigging, spell design, spell coding, spell visual effect design, scripting, and AI for all of those, on top of the standard amount of design time going into the items it drops (graphics and stats).

That's a lot of work that's only going to be experienced by the most dedicated of the best geared of the highest-end guilds; a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the playerbase.  Content that almost nobody will see.

I'd argue that it's interesting on some far-out artistic level, like a performance piece, or a buddhist sand mandala.  It's also very bad game design.
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Brentai

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #156 on: August 20, 2008, 10:41:45 PM »

It's not entirely unfounded from SE's perspective.  I mean how much do you remember about FF7?  The first thing people remember is that ditz getting stabbed, sure, but the second and third things are usually 2) Knights of the Round and 3) Ruby Weapon.  Content that's pretty much the endgamest of the endgame, yet it sort of put them on the map.

People who are still playing FFXI are, to be honest, pretty clearly obsessed.  I don't think people devoting a day to the "experience" of the whole damned thing is going to be that unheard of.  Rare, yes, but not unheard of.

That said: my sister sent me a link to this story this morning, so it's spilling out into mainstream news.  That's bad.
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Kashan

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #157 on: August 20, 2008, 10:47:05 PM »

From what I've heard, the first time Absolute Virtue was killed it took 30 hours. This is when it didn't glitch and stop doing anything, but did have an exploit where you could hide from it behind a wall.

Apparently it took one of the larger guilds working in shifts.
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Brentai

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #158 on: August 21, 2008, 09:14:41 PM »

King Bomb.
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McFrugal

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #159 on: August 22, 2008, 08:30:17 PM »

I'd just like to point out that this boss has something like 20 different forms, all with unique appearances and art and spells and abilities (correct me if I'm wrong and there's recycled stuff).

19 out of 20 of its forms are previous bosses you fight during the plot of the game, and its main form seems to be extremely similar to a regular monster.  It also seems to have no truly new abilities.  So no, they didn't really spend a lot of time making the boss.  I bet the hardest part was coding in the respawning.
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