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Author Topic: Final Fucking Fantasy  (Read 71962 times)

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Roger

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #1080 on: August 09, 2013, 07:46:18 AM »

And at least Gau is more useful than Cyan.
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Thad

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #1081 on: August 09, 2013, 12:03:14 PM »

Them's fightin' words.

Cyan's a solid tank with attacks that do decent damage and never miss.  Granted, half of them are stupid, and the charge time's a bit of a deterrent, but he's still one of the more useful characters in the game.
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Bongo Bill

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #1082 on: August 09, 2013, 12:07:56 PM »

Cyan was my preferred character for being permanently transformed into an Imp, equipping all the Imp-specific gear, and holding the relic that replaces attack with Jump and the relic that upgrades jump damage or whatever.
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R^2

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #1083 on: August 09, 2013, 02:08:16 PM »

charge time's a bit of a deterrent

Charge time isn't a deterrent for Dispatch/Fang, since you just push the confirm button as soon as the Bushido charge meter comes up. Extra damage and perfect accuracy on every turn.

I guess I'd better cover all of this stuff when I do an LP of it.
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Thad

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #1084 on: August 09, 2013, 04:49:16 PM »

charge time's a bit of a deterrent

Charge time isn't a deterrent for Dispatch/Fang, since you just push the confirm button as soon as the Bushido charge meter comes up. Extra damage and perfect accuracy on every turn.

attacks that do decent damage and never miss.

I assumed it would be clear that I was not complaining about the charge time for the move that doesn't have any charge time.

But I use the four-hits attacks pretty frequently, and occasionally the all-targets stun attack, and once in awhile the attack that drains HP and MP if I need some of those.

But yes, Dispatch is pretty much always useful.  Cyan is one of the handful of characters in the game (alongside Edgar, Sabin, and a Thief Glove-equipped Locke) for whom there is pretty much no reason ever to use the Fight command.
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Rico

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #1085 on: August 09, 2013, 05:03:15 PM »

And once you get Quick, Cyan gets pretty ridiculous if you don't mind the waiting.
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Thad

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #1086 on: August 09, 2013, 05:07:26 PM »

Once you get Quick, EVERYBODY is ridiculous.
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Ocksi

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #1087 on: August 09, 2013, 05:11:53 PM »

Thanks, guys. I've really been trying to hold out on FF6ing again until the (3)DS remake, since I enjoyed three and four so much, but too bad.
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Mothra

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #1088 on: August 09, 2013, 05:40:02 PM »

When I first bought the game, up until my sixth playthrough, I always rolled with Cyan. I rolled with Cyan because he was a dang fool SAMURAI. He was THE LAST SAMURAI.

That forgives a lot.
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Thad

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #1089 on: August 09, 2013, 06:12:12 PM »

Thanks, guys. I've really been trying to hold out on FF6ing again until the (3)DS remake, since I enjoyed three and four so much, but too bad.

See, Balance and Ruin was what did ME in.

At any rate, while I'm sure there's bound to be another remake someday, I'm not exactly holding my breath, either.  While SE presumably owns all the resources from the DS versions of 3&4, the company that actually developed them is off doing other stuff now and SE hasn't shown any interest in using those resources for anything -- going so far as to release yet another FF4 remake on the PSP that's based on the GBA version and is a step backward from the DS in a lot of ways.

(Indeed, I'd say that's exactly the kind of remake we're likeliest to see of FF5 and 6, should one surface in the next few years -- not based on the DS remakes of 3 and 4, but the PSP ones of 1, 2, and 4.)

Anyway, since you're replaying now: for this playthrough I opted for FF6A with the color and sound restoration patches.  I think that was a great call.  But I'm already thinking of what I'll do on my next playthrough -- I'm thinking SNES version with the Woolsey Uncensored patch, and slap some of the significant gameplay change patches on there too (like the ones we were talking about a bit ago, with Gau automatically learning rages and having access to all 4 moves for each monster instead of just 2).

But, y'know, it's not like I'm going to jump right into my next playthrough as soon as I'm done with this one.

Which I'm not, yet.  Got a house dropped on me.  Pondering whether it's actually possible to grab all the treasure chests and still get out in time, given Celes's current weak levels.  I'm thinking maybe Black Belt + Hermes Sandals + hope they don't hit me with Break + probably run from most battles anyway?
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Brentai

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #1090 on: August 09, 2013, 08:11:39 PM »

It's actually a little bizarre for me to see people talking about FF6 as, like, an actual game with tactics and stuff.  I always thought the RPG bits were just the glue holding together a pretty good steampunk fantasy novel.
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Thad

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #1091 on: August 10, 2013, 03:40:46 AM »

Yeah, you kinda have to work for it.

Helps a bit to have a fixed version of the game, too.  Mount Zozo is a completely different experience without the Evade bug -- the monsters there are supposed to be almost impossible to hit with regular attacks.

And it's been interesting poking through the gameplay hacks to see what people have fixed.  (Another thought occurs to me: both Lore and Gogo's Magic command should be usable in the Fanatics' Tower.)
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Thad

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #1092 on: August 11, 2013, 04:35:44 AM »

Adding: You know, the more I think about it, the more I think a wholescale rebalancing along the lines of FF3&4DS is exactly what 6 needs.  Shame it's the least likely outcome for a remake at this point, should one even happen in the near future.

Another example: in terms of pure damage, claws are the best type of weapon.  As already noted, there is no reason for Sabin ever to use the Fight command.

Things like the Veldt and the Auction House are fixable.  Runic dould be made useful past the point where your party learns magic simply by making it only absorb enemy magic.  And so on.
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Brentai

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #1093 on: August 11, 2013, 04:46:37 AM »

If I were redoing the game I'd just do away with the Fight command completely and let everyone have their own wholly unique attack mechanic.  That'd mean a lot of new minigames and some changes to existing specials (Cyan shouldn't hold up the entire damn fight, Setzer shouldn't randomly end the game), but I don't think many people would complain.
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Thad

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #1094 on: August 11, 2013, 05:11:25 AM »

That'd be pretty tempting, yeah.  Make Terra and Strago pure magic, say?  And give them an FF12-style Charge move in case they run out of MP.
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Thad

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #1095 on: August 11, 2013, 07:18:56 AM »

Further thoughts:

Give monsters AI.  Make them only heal as needed, and not re-cast offensive/debuff/negative status spells on characters they have no effect on.  Obviously you'd need to rebalance their attacks, because there would be absolutely no reason for a Stray Cat ever to use its standard attack instead of Cat Scratch.  (Which I guess is the same problem with Edgar, Sabin, Cyan, and the Fight command.)  Maybe add charge time to the more powerful attacks?  I'll get back to charge time in a minute.

Either give Gau, Mog, and Umaro AI much like what I described above, or make them controllable.  Make your character controllable in the Coliseum, too.

Gau/Veldt:
Make Gau automatically learn rages from every monster he defeats, whether he's on the Veldt or not.
Veldt can still serve a purpose as the place where you can re-fight monsters from earlier in the game -- but needs a few tweaks.
First of all, get rid of the current arrangement of monsters (where you fight a random group from an ordered list).  Split the Veldt up by region -- maybe arrange it so that it resembles the world map in miniature.  Go to an area on the miniature map and you'll fight monsters from that part of the world map.  (Obviously this would be a little trickier to implement in the WoR -- do you have a mix of WoB and WoR monsters in each region, or find some way to split it up into two miniature world maps?)
And no more missable Veldt monsters.  If you've been to a region, monsters from that region will show up on the Veldt, whether you've encountered them or not.  (The exceptions would be the two bosses, provided you even keep them as Veldt monsters; that was always kinda weird.)

Celes: While Terra and Strago make sense as pure mages from a plot perspective, Celes doesn't.  She's been raised as a warrior from infancy; you'd have to expect she'd at least know how to handle a sword when MP runs out.  I say make her an FF5-style Mage Knight; give her the ability to enchant weapons with elements or effects.  You could keep Runic (as described above, in a more useful context where it only absorbs enemy magic), or you could drop it entirely in favor of Magic Sword.

Magic: The four natural mages (Terra, Celes, Strago, Relm) should have visibly better magical aptitude than everybody else.  I think everybody else's magic stats (Magic, MP, M Evade, M Def) should be nerfed -- not to the point where magic is useless, but to the point where it's noticeably less effective than when the natural mages do it.  (Gogo's actually a pretty good example of a character who can still use any ability in the game but is visibly worse at it than its natural practitioner.)  I'm thinking you could also add charge times for the non-natural magic users to cast their spells.

And speaking of charge times, that's what you do with Cyan.  Have him pick his attack from a menu and then initiate the counter; if you want to do, say, #7, it'll still take just as long to prepare, but everybody else in the party can keep doing their thing while he's preparing it.
Also, either eliminate his intermediate attacks or make them useful.

Similar goes for Edgar -- there's not really much reason to use any of his tools except Autocrossbow and Chainsaw.
I say nerf Chainsaw a bit.  (Make the difference between it and Drill more striking -- make it useless against monsters with high def, for example, so that Drill is clearly a better choice there.)  Make monsters more susceptible to Bioblaster and Noiseblaster (and maybe add some more tools that cause different status ailments) -- here's a thought, maybe even make monsters that would normally repel a Bio or Confuse spell susceptible to the Tool version.
Introduce Debilitator way earlier in the game -- say, before the Magitek Research Facility.  (Technically it's possible to steal one from the crane boss, but it's rare and that still means you get it immediately after the part of the game where it would be most useful.)
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Thad

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #1096 on: August 11, 2013, 07:56:06 AM »

Oh, and no missable dances, either.  Create some persistent location where you can learn the Water Dance in the WoR.  Maybe make the Serpent Trench, Ebot's Rock, anywhere else that was underwater in the WoB into a marshland that counts as water.
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Mothra

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #1097 on: August 11, 2013, 08:21:07 AM »

Not a big fan of misses, in general. For dances, at least, there could be some short little button game at the bottom, which would determine how good of an attack you got, or if you stumbled. One missed button would send Mog wobbling, and a second would send him stumbling.

I feel like the Coliseum needs that nail-biting AI-driven shitfest, where victory is almost entirely dependent on how well you equipped him, how well you exploited the game with relics, and how dang lucky you are.
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Thad

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #1098 on: August 11, 2013, 08:38:29 AM »

Disagree; I'd rather control it than just watch as a spectator.

But if you're going to keep it out of the player's control, then it SHOULD fucking-well be AI-controlled instead of random.  Sabin should never, ever use Spiraler, and if you know Firaga you shouldn't be casting Fire.

That's part of the problem -- the randomness of the Coliseum is actually a disincentive to learn a broad range of spells, because that simply increases the likelihood of casting something stupid.
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Bongo Bill

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Re: Final Fucking Fantasy
« Reply #1099 on: August 11, 2013, 11:36:44 AM »

The Coliseum comes down to either using Mog (who can reach 255 defense and magic defense and thereby become immune to everything some enemies can do) or Gogo (whose actions you have more control over). It's not a very interesting puzzle.
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