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Author Topic: No, I will not fix your computer.  (Read 61908 times)

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Brentai

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Re: No, I will not fix your computer.
« Reply #660 on: November 11, 2013, 06:15:58 AM »

I appreciate having onboard as a reliable fallback at the very least, whenever something goes wrong in my monitor-cable-card-bus-driver house of cards (all of these things have dropped me down to onboard at least once).  You're probably not getting any more useful ports in that space anyway, since you can only cram so many powered things together before you start running into load management issues.
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Thad

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Re: No, I will not fix your computer.
« Reply #661 on: November 14, 2013, 05:03:45 PM »

Welp, following a trip to Fry's (not the one right next to my house, the one conveniently located 25 miles away, because that was the one that had the case I wanted for $20 less than Amazon sells it for), I now have everything but the actual computing parts.

Pretty sure I'm going to go with the 4770K.  NCIX is no longer selling it for $320, which is a pity, but I'm betting it'll go down again between now and Cyber Monday, and if it doesn't, well, $340 still puts it close enough to the cost of the 3770K that I can see going with the newer model.

For the board I'm thinking I'll go with the ASRock Extreme6.  Anandtech did a roundup of midrange Haswell boards and it ended in a tie between the Extreme6ac and the Asus Z87 Pro.  I've been an Asus buyer my entire adult life (with Gigabyte as a reliable, slightly cheaper fallback) and never bought an ASRock, but the review indicated that the Asus is the board to go with for cutting-edge features while the ASRock is the one that's got more ports crammed on it than you're ever likely to need.  Given the choice, I can appreciate how cool it is that you can flash the Asus board from a memory stick without the need of a bootable OS or monitor, but that is a feature I am likely to use a maximum of one time, and besides that it sounds like the system's got some pretty weird defaults that I'd have to make a list of and change in BIOS before I ever got started.

Near as I can tell the only difference between the Extreme6 and the Extreme6ac is what it says on the tin -- the ac comes with high-speed wireless, a feature which I would welcome in a laptop but which is utterly worthless in the machine that will be sitting six feet away from my router at all times.  Whereas the next step down, the Extreme4, doesn't have an MPCIE slot and the Extreme6 does.  I have no immediate use for an MPCIE slot, but my reading on the subject indicates that it's useful for SSD caching, which is definitely something I'm interested in checking out later on down the line.

Anyhow, that's what I'm thinking right now.  But like I've said, I haven't been keeping abreast of trends and I'm learning as I go here; if anybody has any corrections or suggestions I'll be happy to take notes.
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Classic

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Re: No, I will not fix your computer.
« Reply #662 on: November 14, 2013, 07:32:08 PM »

I've never actually had to safely uncouch a CPU from its socket before.
Is this the kind of thing that's easy to fuck up?
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Thad

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Re: No, I will not fix your computer.
« Reply #663 on: November 15, 2013, 01:57:17 AM »

Shouldn't be with the new ones.  I've bent pins before on old ones because someone applied too much thermal grease and the CPU stuck to the heatsink and the heatsink yanked it right out.


Anyway, postscript to my Fry's trip: the reason I do not like shopping at Fry's is that they are a computer component store that hires the sort of person who, when you tell him you're here to pick up your computer case, spends 20 minutes wandering around the whole store trying to find it because there are no laptop bags set aside behind the counter.
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Brentai

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Re: No, I will not fix your computer.
« Reply #664 on: November 18, 2013, 07:16:20 AM »

http://m.slickdeals.net/f/6445384-intel-i5-3570k-149-99-i7-4770k-199-99-microcenter-b-m-only

I've got a Micro Center within pretty reasonable distance if you want me to go acquire one for you.

EDIT: And out of stock. Seems to be a running theme this season.
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Thad

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Re: No, I will not fix your computer.
« Reply #665 on: November 18, 2013, 11:41:03 AM »

Thanks for the offer; I wound up ordering my motherboard from them and my processor from NCIX.  Never ordered from either company before; will let you guys know how it goes.

Guess that rounds it out for now.  Got pretty good deals all around; I think when all's said and done I'll only be spending about $100 of non-insurance money.

I plan on some upgrades later -- probably do the SSD caching thing -- but I'm pretty satisfied with my build at this point.  On paper.  Again, will let you guys know how it works out in real life.
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Rico

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Re: No, I will not fix your computer.
« Reply #666 on: November 18, 2013, 12:06:42 PM »

Video card blew yesterday, so I started looking at upgrading. Now, thankfully, it looks like PCIe 3 is backwards compatible with 1.1 so I can stumble along for a little bit, but I'm definitely at that point where I can't upgrade anything without replacing EVERYTHING. I've poked around a little and haven't seen anything major scheduled for 2014, but it's been years since I've even looked at components, so I may have missed something.

Is there anything coming up in the near future that's going to make me feel stupid about buying a new CPU/mobo/RAM later this month?
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Rico

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Re: No, I will not fix your computer.
« Reply #667 on: November 18, 2013, 12:25:25 PM »

Incidentally, I still have trouble wrapping my mind around buying a component that will literally triple my graphics performance for closer to $150 than $200, and have it delivered to me next-day for $3.99.

Old man Rico, still on his porch talkin' 'bout his shoebox-sized external 20MB hard drive and cutting-edge 2400 baud modem.
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Thad

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Re: No, I will not fix your computer.
« Reply #668 on: November 18, 2013, 04:25:58 PM »

Is there anything coming up in the near future that's going to make me feel stupid about buying a new CPU/mobo/RAM later this month?

No moreso than usual.

Next week is the perfect time to buy new.  The week after Christmas is the perfect time to buy used.  And if you find some deals right now, you're not likely to see TOO many better deals next week that will make you wish you hadn't.  Particularly if you're like me and don't leave the house on Black Friday.

Talking of used, remember I mentioned wanting to replace the graphics card in my HTPC, in addition to getting a new primary machine?  Did that last week.  Went to Bookman's, which is primarily a used bookstore but which also has some electronics.  I found a used eVGA GTX560 Ti with sticker price $90; with my wife's teacher discount it came out to less than $80 with tax.  (And about $15 more than that when I got home, put it in my computer, and realized at the last minute that my motherboard only had one power connector and I needed to run to Fry's to buy an adapter.  And then they didn't have a molex-to-6-pin adapter so instead I had to buy a molex-to-8-pin adapter and then a 6-pin-female-to-6-pin-male that I stuck on 6 of the 8 pins on the 8-pin adapter.  Which I in turn about broke even for on finding that Fry's stocked the case I wanted for $20 less than Amazon but only had a beat-up display model so I had to drive a 50-mile round-trip to the other Fry's, which probably used up about $6 worth of gas.)

tl;dr I don't know how many states Bookman's is in but they're worth checking out if you're scrounging for used computer parts.  There are probably other general-purpose used-item stores that stock that kind of stuff too.  You probably won't get a much better deal in a brick-and-mortar store than on eBay (or vice-versa -- the blessing and curse of Internet commerce is that it's pretty well leveled the playing field and you're much less likely to get ripped off OR to get a screamin' deal than you used to be), but it's nice being able to actually look at things.

You wanna talk about feeling old, though?  I figured my rig out using pcpartpicker.com.  It is a site with a list of hundreds of different computer parts that will, for example, only display motherboards and coolers that are compatible with the processor you've selected, and throw an error if you pick a video card that doesn't have enough wattage for your build.  AND it lists the prices on multiple sites, including deals like rebates, free shipping, etc.

(On the subject of rebates: they're nice if you can get them but I would advise always assuming that you're going to end up paying full price for anything you get.  Companies do not offer rebates because they intend to give them out, and it's easy to miss out on one on a stupid technicality which may or may not have actually happened, and be unable to reach a human being to discuss it.  I consider them under "This would be a nice bonus if the card came in the mail, but I'm just going to assume it won't.")

I certainly still wound up doing my due diligence and plenty of research, but it's nothing like the old days -- hell, I built a computer as recently as 4 years ago and, while I remember there being sites sort of like this back then, they were a lot more primitive.

(Our big end-of-semester project for the computer class I took as a high school senior was to research deals on computer parts and come up with a pitch for a reasonably-priced system to build.  The teacher picked the best ones, and when we came back for the next semester we built the computers.  A few months later I bought a new computer for college, and it was basically just a slightly-upgraded version of the system we'd built in class.  This was back in the days before NewEgg, when Amazon just sold books, and when Fry's didn't even have a damn website and the website that became frys.com was called outpost.com.)



EDIT TO ADD: I think I've already mentioned most of this already, but in case it helps anybody, here's my build:

Processor: Intel i7 4770K.  It's latest-generation (Haswell) and is overclocking-friendly.

Mobo: ASRock Z87 Extreme6.  One step down from the board that got an award from Anandtech (doesn't have a wireless card); one step up from the board that got an award from Tom's Hardware (does have the mini-PCIE slot that the wireless card goes in).

Case: Thermaltake New Soprano.  A bit bulkier and heavier than I expected but still nice, and I really do love the built-in HD mount slot.  Looks like really nice snap-in drive mounts, and good cable management.  (More stuff we didn't have Back in My Day.)

Power supply: Corsair HX850M.  Modular (yet another one of those new things that's just so damn nice to have that I wish we'd had in the old days).  More juice than I need right now, but most reviews say it runs pretty quiet so I think it's worth it to get something with more power than I need since I figure for my next video upgrade I'll probably do the SLI thing.

Which brings us to video card: Keeping my PNY GeForce GTX 570.  Good card; uses too much juice for my Mac Pro.  Sincerely hope it doesn't turn out to be a problem with the card instead of the Mac, but will let you know if it does.

Drives: Bought a cheap ASUS DVD burner; other than that I'm reusing hard drives I've already got sitting around the house.  But you can't visit a tech site without tripping over a dozen good deals on drives.  You can get a 256MB SSD for around $150, a 1TB spinning drive for around $60, whatever.  But for my part, I've got plenty of drives lying around already and, with prices already dropping all the time, I'm content to stick with what I've got for now and watch them keep falling.

RAM: Got an 8GB stick of Crucial 1600 for $60.  NewEgg is running deals like that pretty much constantly right now; if you don't see one today, look again tomorrow.

Monitor: Got the 27" one they sell on Monoprice (the model that has an HDMI port, in case I ever need it, though note that HDMI doesn't actually support 1560x1440 or whatever the resolution is; you'll want dual-link DVI).  It was under $500; IIRC there was some kind of sale on.  Extra bonus: if you spend big money at Monoprice, they'll give you long-term discounts; since I bought the monitor I automatically get the bulk (10+) price on everything they sell.

Keyboard: The same Microsoft Natural 4000 I've been using since 2006.  I bought two and use my other one at work.

Mouse: Evoluent VerticalMouse 3.  Spendy but I think it really helped with my wrist pain; haven't had a cramp in years.  (It might also help that I switch things up with a trackball at work -- that's one of the Logitech ones with the thumb ball that they don't make anymore.)  Also, my first one broke after a couple of years of use but their customer service was excellent and I got a replacement quickly and completely covered under warranty.  I don't think they make the 3 anymore but I'm willing to bet the current model is solid.

Guess that's everything, including stuff I already had before I bought the computer.  Again, I'll let you know how it all goes once I actually get the new machine put together.
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Rico

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Re: No, I will not fix your computer.
« Reply #669 on: November 18, 2013, 05:45:45 PM »

I haven't really felt CPU-bottlenecked even with an old E8400 Core2Duo, so I'm not planning on going all the way up to that i7, though it is tempting. AMD seems to have the better budget line here even though they look power-hungry, so I'm currently looking at a GIGABYTE GA-970A-D3 for AM3+ support and then ... shit, they have 8 cores for desktop lines now? That's just silly.
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Brentai

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Re: No, I will not fix your computer.
« Reply #670 on: November 18, 2013, 06:08:04 PM »

I think the 8-core lines are still considered enthusiast tier, which is shorthand for "Yes, this is silly."
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Thad

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Re: No, I will not fix your computer.
« Reply #671 on: November 19, 2013, 01:56:46 AM »

I haven't really felt CPU-bottlenecked even with an old E8400 Core2Duo, so I'm not planning on going all the way up to that i7, though it is tempting.

Yeah, I've said before, I wouldn't be upgrading now if not for (1) being robbed and having insurance give me a choice between $350 in the bank and $700 for a new computer or (2) if my last computer had been a PC with exactly the same system specs.  This 2006 Mac Pro is frankly still an excellent damn computer, it just gives me trouble with my non-Apple graphics card and non-Apple OS's.

The days of needing to upgrade every couple of years are far behind us.  Hell, that GTX560Ti?  I stuck it in a box with a 2009 Pentium.  Arkham City now looks better on that computer than it did on my Xbox 360.  (It's using whatever settings nVidia's tool set it to -- and isn't THAT another very nice feature I wish we'd had all these years -- which I believe amounts to cranking up everything to the max except DX11 (unsupported) and antialiasing (set somewhere in the middle).  And lens flare.  Because fake lens flare is fucking stupid.  Oh, is there light bouncing off the fucking camera that you are using to film this fucking video game?  Dipshits.)  Midrange 2011 GPU with a budget 2009 CPU, runs just fine for living room gaming.

And again, my 2006 4-Xeon Mac Pro is still a great machine, and if I were only using it as a Mac I wouldn't have any complaints.  (I wouldn't be able to upgrade to Mountain Lion or Mavericks, but...well, like I said, no complaints.)

AMD seems to have the better budget line here even though they look power-hungry, so I'm currently looking at a GIGABYTE GA-970A-D3 for AM3+ support and then ... shit, they have 8 cores for desktop lines now? That's just silly.

My last AMD gave me real trouble with overheating, but that was also back around 2003 or '4.  I've still got kind of a low opinion of them since, but I've got to hope they've figured out at least some of the issues they had.  Still, their reputation now is probably actually worse than it was then, if only because Intel's improved so much in cooling and power consumption.

Nothing really to add beyond those generalities.  Sounds like you're doing your research, so just keep doing that.
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Thad

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Re: No, I will not fix your computer.
« Reply #672 on: November 19, 2013, 02:22:27 PM »

and of fucking course the 4770k goes on sale for $300 on Amazon three days after I order it.

But this is exactly the kind of shit you need to learn to deal with if you're going to make a habit of buying computers.  It's a mild annoyance, sure, but it's also inevitable.  So you roll with it.

And hey, they say my stuff should be here tomorrow.
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Rico

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Re: No, I will not fix your computer.
« Reply #673 on: November 19, 2013, 03:27:33 PM »

Initially very happy with my new GTX660. ~30C idle driving two monitors, ~50C Ultra Skyrim in 1080p with only the rare hiccup. Pretty damn nice for under $200 even if the rebate gets technicalitied. My poor old 9800GT rarely even idled that low.
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Thad

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Re: No, I will not fix your computer.
« Reply #674 on: November 20, 2013, 12:27:43 PM »

Here's another one for the Living in the Future list: the board has Power and Reset buttons right on it.  No more shorting the pins with a flathead!

(MB arrived today.  Still no processor so I can't actually do much building yet.)
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Thad

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Re: No, I will not fix your computer.
« Reply #675 on: November 21, 2013, 04:29:31 PM »

Welp, new computer's all hooked up and won't power on.

Old computer, meanwhile, has had its nvidia drivers crap out because I removed the graphics card and stuck it in the new computer.  Even though the remaining card is still an nVidia and was working just fine when I plugged the monitor into it the other day.

This is going to be a long weekend.

At least one long weekend.



EDIT: Well, at least the latter was a quick fix -- reinstalled nvidia-current and restarted X.  Didn't even need to reboot.
I hope that whatever's wrong with the new machine turns out to be similarly trivial.
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Classic

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Re: No, I will not fix your computer.
« Reply #676 on: November 21, 2013, 07:51:25 PM »

It is zero consolation: but when I was throwing new shit into my ancient box, I had a similar no-power left-handed coffee mug moment.

I think I wasn't paying attention and somehow connected the pins on the main board power incorrectly, because it worked when I disconnected and reconnected all of my lines.
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Thad

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Re: No, I will not fix your computer.
« Reply #677 on: November 22, 2013, 01:45:16 AM »

Yeah, step one is going to be checking the connections.  Step two will be disconnecting inessential shit.  (Two B means popping the video card.)

If that still doesn't work, step three will be taking out the power supply and seeing if it works in another computer and, if so, seeing if other computer's power supply works with this one.

The downside of having a modern case with nice cable management is that unhooking things will mean a lot more pulling cable back through multiple holes.  OTOH, if I'd just left them loose in the first place and it HAD worked, then I'd have had to pull everything and recable.
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Thad

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Re: No, I will not fix your computer.
« Reply #678 on: November 22, 2013, 12:17:20 PM »

Actually step 1 is just trying a different electrical outlet.  Powers up, anyway.

And powers up when I move it back to where it was.  So could have been a loose connection, or possible short in the back panel; haven't tried firing it up with peripherals connected yet.

Off to do that.
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Thad

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Re: No, I will not fix your computer.
« Reply #679 on: November 23, 2013, 02:29:50 AM »

Fired right up on day 2; don't know what the hell the problem was on day 1.  Loose power cable, short in the I/O panel, cable inside the case brushing the MB that got moved out of the way when I picked it up -- who knows.

Lots of stuff still untested (haven't tried most of the USB slots or the audio) but most everything is working fine.  The hard drive mount is intermittent, unfortunately; at first it didn't work at all and I figured it was a loose cable (power is definitely working; you can hear a drive spin up when you plug it in), but this morning when the computer woke from sleep it recognized a drive there for the first time.  Will have to look into it further.

Since the top slot connects directly to a SATA port on the MB, I don't get the "Safely Remove" popup, and don't see any unmount options when I right-click the drive, either.  That's something else I'll need to look into.

Oh, and also the optical drive is loud as fuck, but hopefully I won't be using it often.

The old computer isn't faring quite as well.  That problem with the nVidia drivers not working?  Happens again every time I reboot.

Plus, my monitor's only got 1 DVI port, so I've currently got the old computer hooked in with HDMI, which doesn't support the monitor's full resolution.  It's workable but blurry enough that I decided to order a DisplayPort cable so I can use that on the new computer and switch the old one back to DVI.

(As it turns out I picked a good day to order a cable from Monoprice, as they had a "$10 off your next purchase" deal going -- now expired -- and the cable I ordered cost $7.50 including shipping.  So if I get and use that coupon, this cable will have cost me -$2.50.)

So far I've got Win7 installed on a 1TB drive in the new machine.  I've installed Steam and the plan was for it to spend all night downloading very large games, but apparently heavy network activity does not disable sleep on Windows like it does on the Linux distros I've been using.

Today I'll probably try and put the audio and video through their paces, and see about getting my backup Linux OS installed.  (Going to try Debian/XFCE for this outing.)  I'll install my primary OS last, so that GRUB will automatically configure all my boot options without me having to fuck around with it.

After I'm comfortably settled in, my plan is to set my Mac Pro up as a pure Mac, running OSX from an 80GB SDD I've got lying around.  I'll set up Pro Tools even though I can't use it yet (haven't replaced my stolen mixer), and probably set up ownCloud or some other backup/sharing solution, probably configure my remaining two 500GB drives in some kind of software RAID.
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