[spoiler]PM Harriet Jones, played by Penelope Wilton, will pose a threat to the Time Lord - as the mother of all Daleks, according to The Sun.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Also in the show, classic enemy Davros, played by Julian Bleach, returns to build a new race of Daleks after just one, called Caan, was left alive last year.[/spoiler]
[...]
[spoiler]Catherine Tate and Billie Piper return as Donna Noble and Rose Tyler, and Elisabeth Sladen is back as Sarah Jane Smith.[/spoiler]
Still no for-sure premier date, but smart money says the 12th.
If the episode synopses I linked above are to be believed, she'll show up in Moffat's two-parter.
Next week we've got Martha, UNIT, and Sontarans, so fan service all around. (Would be just swell to see Nicholas Courtney put in an appearance; he's been quite active over the years doing radio serials and DVD commentaries.)
Planet of the Ood is pretty much the most formulaic Doctor Who episode I've ever seen. There's a "oh how wonderful the universe and humanity is!" speech at the opening, there's a monster, there's a couple of murders as the Doctor figures out who the bad guy is, and then the bad guy is killed and everything in the entire tri-galaxy radius is solved in the space of a couple of minutes.
After re-watching The Impossible Planet/Satan Pit and Blink with my roommates, it's steadily becoming clear to me how huge the gap in quality is between writers like Moffat or Jones and writers like Davis or Moran. This is a show with nothing to fall back on but the (frankly, fascinating) character of the Doctor, and the story.
Not to imply I didn't love the cult of Skaro, but the sooner we run out of fanservice and move on to something a little less black and white, the better. Getting pretty sick of monster of the week.
I liked Martha quite a bit.
the Master arc was great until the last part.
I HAVE SCORED A TELLING BLOW AGAINST MY INTERNET ARGUMENT OPPONENT BY MAKING A REFERENCE TO GODWIN'S LAW. MARVEL AT MY WIT.
I HAVE SCORED A TELLING BLOW AGAINST MY INTERNET ARGUMENT OPPONENT BY MAKING A REFERENCE TO GODWIN'S LAW. MARVEL AT MY WIT.
I've had a lot harder time than most enjoying Doctor Who fanservice. I can't get into the Cybermen because, while they certainly look pretty awesome, there is absolutely nothing to them aside from their desire to blow up the world. I can't get into the Daleks because, while they're sometimes funny, there is absolutely nothing to them aside from their desire to blow up the world.
I like the old Doctor Who and all, but it's a lot like regular Doctor Who in that the best thing about it was whoever was writing. As characters, Devros, the Sontarans, the Autons, etc, are pretty one-dimensional villains who worked in their original episodes only due to the suspense of the leadup and the suprise of the resolution.
Outside of that, they've really only been doled out whenever the current show needed some action, and large-scale action really is not this show's strong suit.
I really liked the new Master, and he had an interesting role to fill as the Doctor's evil twin, so I was pretty stoked when he showed up. Wish his arc had finished a little stronger instead of just throwing him back up into the role of Guy Who Wants To Rule The World, but I guess hoping for something a little sexier than WORLD INVASION for the season finale was asking a bit much.
I dunno, I just look back on all the worthwhile episodes in the past few seasons, and only the ones with completely original ideas and villains - The Satan Pit, Doctor Dances, Girl in the Fireplace, Idiot's Lantern, 42, Family of Blood, Blink - stand out as good ones.
I don't think Tenant can deliver the pathos like Eccleston could, but that's just me.
[...]
Technically speaking, the Doctor is a very static character who doesn't change much except when he nearly dies.
The Daleks, at their best, are something that you laugh at at first sight but, after spending enough time with the series, can gasp along when they slide into a room simply on the strength of the actors' reactions to them. At their worst, of course, they ARE just another Freak of the Week.
Wow, I'm going to have to disagree with you on all counts. The resolutions to ALL those villains' original appearances were really hackneyed. Davros's in particular.
I liked Impossible Planet/Satan Pit, but it's hard to call it an original idea, much less an original villain. Cool setting and good suspense, but demonic possession is hardly a new concept.
Idiot's Lantern was kind of cool because of its setting, but the "people get sucked into TV's" bit isn't new, and the "companion gets sucked into another world and Doctor has to save her"/"Doctor gets sucked into another world and companion has to save him" bit is plenty played. Plus the showdown on the radio tower was straight out of Logopolis. It was all right, but I certainly wouldn't count it as one of the best.
And as for 42...really? You're going to call THAT one original? It is the SAME FUCKING EPISODE as Impossible Planet/Satan Pit. I mean, I liked it, but...well, the fact that I liked it despite it being largely redundant is sort of the point.
"GPS and DHS am Evil" horseshit
Additionally, nice catch with the bumps on the spaceship. I'm sure it's a bit of astute observation that will go down with "Hey, the tocclafane-or-however-the-fuck-you-spell-em sound just exactly like the undead-thingamagigs-from-that-third-episode-that-sucked" in the category of Perfectly Reasonable Fan Speculation That Was Wrong But Would Have Been Awesome. I'm more prone to chalking it up to the BBC sucking a bit, personally.
Also, there was some pretty damn snappy characterization with the underchallenged frat-brat that I sincerely hope to see explored a bit more. Sure, it'd be satisfying to see him make the bad choice and watch him get exploded for it or whatever, but hey, wouldn't it be fucking slick to see him made a companion with some actual depth and regret that we're familiar with through shit he pulled on camera? There was a chance to do that with the shithead from Dalek that was passed over that never happened. And, naturally, this will never happen, either. Count on it ending on a dumbass gag comparable to the fingersnapping head-opens gag.
That said, Poison Sky was pretty much exactly the same as every other world-invasion two-parter of the past four seasons. The brass ignore the Doctor, bunch of extras die, Doctor bullshits some super-science, Doctor almost nobly sacrifices self, deus ex machina.
My entire career has been a secret plan to get this job. I applied before but I got knocked back because the BBC wanted someone else. Also I was seven.
Message for RTD. PLEASE PLEASE don't make any of these stories a global warming story. While most people on Earth think it's carbon causing the increasing temperature the Doctor would KNOW it is just the sun's solar cycle. If there's anything about carbon/global warming, please let it be the other characters who say it.
Wikipedia gives the plot of the finale away, and seriously..
:facepalm:
Also, was reading the fan spoiler site and came across this little gem:
Donna starts receiving strange images of a girl with blond hair. The girl's name is Rose and she warns Donna of a plan by the Daleks and an old enemy of the Doctor's to destroy her universe.
Next week: RTD's big finale starts. For episode one, expect lots of histrionics from Donna and Rose,
and a big reveal with Caan and Davros at the end.
Other characters I expect to appear, in order of likelihood: Jenny,
Martha,
Jack,
Jackie,
Mickey,
Pete,
Sarah Jane,
anyone else from either of the spinoffs.
it's getting harder and harder to believe that the average Londoner STILL doesn't know aliens exist.
-On a similar note, I know the writers love being oh-so-very-clever but can we at least TRY to avoid the moronic Harry Potter quasi-Latin alien names like Pyrovalien and Vespifuckstick? Thanks.
-No more episodes where you travel back in time to shamelessly kiss the ass of some dead historical figure. You're just embarrassing yourself.
-Take it easy with the fucking sonic screwdriver already.
a big reveal with Caan and Davros at the end.
For episode two, expect that bit with Harriet Jones that all the tabloids were yakking about back in March.
Other characters I expect to appear, in order of likelihood: Jenny,
Jackie, Mickey, Pete
When Donna's sitting alone in the Shadow Proclamation, you can clearly hear the sound of drums. I don't expect the Master to pop his head in in the finale, but that may be significant.
Given that they really didn't drama the hell out of it my money is on a NONE OF IT HAPPENED bait-and-switch along the lines of last season.
[...]
Given his enthusiasm for the gig I have a hard time imagining a scenario where he'd want to leave. It's kind of too late to dodge typecasting, I think, and if he really minded that I don't think he would have stuck it out for three seasons already. And hell, don't I remember something about him being contracted for the little movie thingies next year? I figured he'd be on for at least that long.
With some wackiness in between. Hell, we already had the whole deus-ex-global-cellphone bit again, and it ain't getting any less fucking stupid.
On one hand, I almost like seeing RTD going out on such a shit note. He did a great job of revitalizing the thing back, well, in the first season.
Anyway, Daleks are nice. Shame this was so sketchy in every other way.
And that there's actually enough spinoff media already that it feels like the more awkward bits of going home for Christmas and running into family you don't exactly hate, but haven't cared enough to keep up with for the last year. I don't know or care what Torchwood and Sarah Jane have been up to, and while I have a lingering fondness for them I neither want to hear an in depth explanation (actually watch those shows) or deal with the superficial "How're things?" "Eh, okay."
CS: But do you find yourself re-watching the old episodes and thinking, "Maybe we could use that?"
Moffat: Oh sure, yeah! I think that when the show first came back, it was a question of raiding the old shows for the emblems or the icons. This really is Doctor Who! There's a Dalek! There's a TARDIS! There's a sonic screwdriver! There's the cybermen! But people no longer think of it as "New Doctor Who." They just think of it as "Doctor Who." Now it's one big thing. Now we're raiding the back catalogue not to validate ourselves but for really great ideas. There are some cracking ideas in "Doctor Who" through the course of the series. Brilliant monsters! Brilliant ideas! Sometimes thinking "it's time we took that idea or that monster or that trick and gave it all the modern tech that we have now." Give it another time around the block. That's good. That's right and proper but - at the same time -- fundamentally, the absolute paradigm of "Doctor Who" stories is -- right from the TARDIS -- is that everything you see is brand new. I always think there should be more new stuff than old stuff in "Doctor Who". You sit down to plan the series and think "I'm bringing back something new every single story." What's the use? You might as well call this "Doctor Who 2." It'd be a sequel and "Doctor Who" shouldn't be a sequel. Every year there are new eight-year olds watching it and those new eight year olds saw it at the most important age because they're going to live a lot longer than the rest of you. I want them to have their monsters so that in 40 years time they can grump to their children, "Oh, it's not as good as it used to be. I remember the episode. The very first time we saw the Weeping Angels. I remember the first time we saw that episode." You're not getting lost in nostalgia. You're creating nostalgia.
Guess that explains why Brian Hitch's art isn't the same as his Ultimate's stuff.
It was revealed last week that all seven surviving Doctor Who's are to feature together in a one-off television special for BBC charity Children in Need in a programme to be broadcast on November 14.
Tennant confirmed through the 2010 series (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/3188684/Doctor-Who-David-Tennant-to-stay-till-2011.html)
Russell T Davies, executive producer, said: "I've been lucky and honoured to work with David over the past few years - and it's not over yet, the Tenth Doctor still has five spectacular hours left!
"After which, I might drop an anvil on his head. Or maybe a piano. A radioactive piano. But we're planning the most enormous and spectacular ending, so keep watching."
I'm absolutely sure this is a sign that they're trying to convince him to do some new stories. Now's the perfect time: he's taking a break from his superhero books (except Batman) and working on personal projects, and of course we're in a Who drought until 2010 (the three movies notwithstanding). The rumors even have it that Moffat's going to leave a 1000-year gap in the Doctor's timeline between series 4 and 5; there's a whole lot Morrison could do with that. (I read an interview with him awhile back where he mentioned he's a fan of the current series; he said he preferred Human Nature/Family of Blood to Blink because of its focus on the Doctor's characterization.)
Quote"After which, I might drop an anvil on his head. Or maybe a piano. A radioactive piano. But we're planning the most enormous and spectacular ending, by dropping an entire bridge on him (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DroppedABridgeOnHim). "
Another audience member had previously asked Neil Gaiman whether he was going to write for Doctor Who. Neil had replied that it would be nice and that she should ask Steven. Steven replied that Neil Gaiman writing for Doctor Who would in fact be "nice," but wouldn't confirm or deny whether it was happening.
Another person wanted to know what it was like writing character with a future history like River Song in the "Silence in the Library" / "The Forest of the Dead" two-parter and whether there was pressure to bring her back. Steven thought she was interesting for throwing in references to untold stories like how Russel references the Time War every now and again. Since we know the Doctor will see River again, Steven thinks that the Doctor may "sneak out of the TARDIS late one night with champagne and a corsage and possibly his toothbrush." He then advised the audience to never accidentally drop your toothbrush on a first date because you just look way too hopeful and "there's no way out of that!"
[...]
The next guy wanted to know if River Song recognized the Tenth Doctor or if she could recognize the Doctor in a different regeneration. Steven said that the way he saw it, she has met the Tenth Doctor "but that's not the only Doctor she's met."
My hunch is that there's going to be a twist and that's not the real Eleventh Doctor. I think they're going to keep us guessing right up until the regeneration.
Smart money says we don't get a straight answer in this one and the Next Doctor turns out to be a Doctor from a potential future that may or may not come to pass. Predictable as shit and keeps just yanking us along; sounds like an RTD plot to me.
If I were writing it, he'd turn out to be a robot.
The new Doctor Who is my age :ohshi~:
The only Moore/Reppion book I've read is Albion, which I thought was solid but not outstanding, more interesting for its big ideas (relaunching obscure British comics characters) than its plot.
Honestly, the use of Cybermen in the new Doctor Who series has been remarkably unterrifying, with the villains being sort of cheesy and harmless throughout most of the series.
I still think the new Cybermen redesign is really well done, especially the emphasis on weight and power. Makes them seem a lot more of a legitimate threat when it looks a sounds like they could crush a man's skull in their cold, metal mitts.
The Sun is the unreliable paper, right? Because they're claiming (http://entertainment.uk.msn.com/tv/galleries/gallery.aspx?cp-documentid=14412671>1=61503) Billie, Freema, Catherine, and John are all coming back for the big Tennant finale which I could totally see RTD doing.
Ok, I need to get into Dr. Who. Where do I start?
For the current series, Blink is one of the best episodes and requires no context to enjoy. Maybe start there and, if you like what you see, head on back to the beginning in '05.
I'm in the "Torchwood isn't very good but has some good episodes" camp. I liked Out of Time and Captain Jack Harkness.
for my money, Human Nature/The Family of Blood is the quintessential Tenth Doctor story.
As retarded as his resurrection would be, and it would be retarded, they've already set it up at the end of Last of the Time Lords, and frankly, I love the new Master. I'm willing forgive a lot to see him get more screen time.
You know, does Empty Child/Doctor Dances win out for Nine by sheer virtue of being the best episodes? I agree on the assessment for Ten, but I'm having a harder time for Eccleston. I kinda keep going back to him when he meets the Dalek as what I think of for Nine, the whole "pent up over the Time War" thing.
There's also the question of whether his companion before he regenerates will be River Song or not.
It'd actually be really interesting, as she claimed she'd never seen him so young, even though Adam Smith will be the youngest Doctor on record.
There's also the possibility that the Doctor could change during the last special or even during the opening of the new season. Not that likely considering Tenant's contracts, but not unprecedented.
Meanwhile, Doctor Who may be heading for the big screen after a spokeswoman for BBC Films confirmed that "a script is in development".
BBC entertainment correspondent Lizo Mzimba said there were no guarantees a film would be made and that, if the project went into full production, a release would be a long time away.
I'd say the odds of "RTD pushes giant reset switch, brings back Gallifrey and the Time Lords (and presumably also Skaro and the Daleks)" just went way up. And they weren't exactly low to begin with.
Honestly, I love the idea of a time war enough that I'd be even more pissed about a reset than I already am about Tennant getting written off before Moffat can take a swing at him. They've admittedly been sketchy on the details how how the war was fought, but two time-traveling races altering and re-altering history in a conflict that literally effects the entire universe seems like an incredibly awesome backdrop for exploring the absurd power Time Lords wield, and how their own aims and politics could affect trillions.
From what we saw of them in the old series, I'd always felt like the Time Lords were way too uptight and passive to be all that interesting. I know they would really need to be, in order to be any sort of effective guardians of time, but I'll be damned if a race of perfect, level-headed demi-gods didn't bore the hell out of me. I like the implication that their own ambitions to craft a better, Dalekless present undid countless lives.
Given what you said before about the lack of regrets, I'm guessing the answer's no, but are there any stories you wanted to tell with this series that you didn't get to?
Not really. Obviously, because I knew almost two years ago that I was leaving, I started thinking about stories. Other dramas I wanted to tell. Every now and then an idea will come into my head, though. I think there's a very good "Doctor Who" story to be told about Twitter, about the idea of communicating in 140 characters.
RTD interview. (http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/06/russell_t_davies_talks_doctor.html)QuoteGiven what you said before about the lack of regrets, I'm guessing the answer's no, but are there any stories you wanted to tell with this series that you didn't get to?
Not really. Obviously, because I knew almost two years ago that I was leaving, I started thinking about stories. Other dramas I wanted to tell. Every now and then an idea will come into my head, though. I think there's a very good "Doctor Who" story to be told about Twitter, about the idea of communicating in 140 characters.
So, any time you're feeling down and need some cheering up, just think to yourself: Russell T Davies did not subject the human race to a Doctor Who episode about Twitter.
RT @rose: " BADWOLFBADWOLFBADWOLFBADWOLFBADWOLFBADWOLFBADWOLFBADWOLFBADWOLFBADWOLFBADWOLFBADWOLFBADWOLFBADWOLFBADWOLFBADWOLFBADWOLFBADWOLFB"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8uqKLA6ObU
::(:
::(:(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitter_production/profile_images/61008358/picard-facepalm_normal.jpg) :facepalm: (http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitter_production/profile_images/61008358/picard-facepalm_normal.jpg)
New logo (http://io9.com/5375331/new-doctor-new-branding)!
I love it. :victory:
::(:
Doctor Who: Dreamland
i don't think i can watch this. seriously.
I am going to miss Tennant something fierce.
also it wasn't very good
I just didn't care for the pacing of the episode;
the narration from [spoiler]the Time Lords[/spoiler] didn't really work for me,
I thought [spoiler]the new famous dude with the book and the alien machine[/spoiler] felt weirdly out of left field
and it just generally didn't feel like it was building to a proper head.
[spoiler]Also while I like crazy ravenous Master, did he really need to shoot lightning too? Or was that just so the Doctor could walk around with explosions behind him?[/spoiler]
[spoiler]I did like that the Master's plan was basically corrupting the one jubilant success that Nine had in another Moffat nod though, intentional or not (on both RTD and the Master's part).[/spoiler]
[spoiler]In this new world of people all the Master, all economy and industry was halted for 2 hours as people laughed maniacally at the absurdity of their own victory[/spoiler]
I suppose the big nagging question is [spoiler]Who is The Woman? All she says is that she was lost long ago, and then when they ask the Doctor about her, he looks at Donna. So uh okay is she actually Donna and how is that possible? Of course "lost long ago" could be a reference to Romana, too; per the radio series, she was President during the Eighth Doctor era, which would mean Rassilon defeated her. She could even be Susan, though I think that's a stretch -- she wasn't lost; the Doctor left her behind intentionally.[/spoiler]
At any rate, this certainly isn't the last we've seen of Tennant, or at least heard of him. Radio series, allons-y!
I say with no reservation that Tennent is my favorite Doctor, even surpassing Tom Baker at this point.
Firstly, Steven Moffat has already revealed that he'll be writing six episodes of the new series, which will include, we'd wager, the series opener and the final two or three episodes.
One of those at least is being taken by Gareth Roberts (Planet Of The Dead, The Unicorn & The Wasp).
And Blogtor Who has picked up the story that Mark Gatiss, who previously wrote The Idiot's Lantern and The Unquiet Dead, has been signed up for a story too.
Steven Moffat, showrunner, grabs six of the episodes, including the two part with Weeping Angels and the return of the Doctor’s possible future wife, River Song.
Mark Gatiss, who wrote The Idiot’s Lantern brings us the World War II Daleks episode, mainstay Gareth Roberts writes one, Richard Curtis does the Vincent Van Gogh one, Toby Whithouse does the Venice vampire one, Chris Chibnall, I know I know, calm down, calm down, writes two, including the Silurian/Sea Devils episode, and creator of Men Behaving Badly and So How Do You Want Me writes one.
Deus Ex Machina of shooting a machine with a gun was hells of retarded, as it basically presented the Doctor with a harmless catch-all third option that solved everything. I thought the point was to make him choose between taking a life/fixing everything and sticking to his pacifism?
My dad swears that [spoiler]the mystery Time Lord[/spoiler] is the Doctor's mother, but my money's on his wife. I remember him saying something off-hand to Donna about being married once, and it would be in keeping with his glance over at Donna in a wedding gown.
Wish we'd had a little more insight into how the time war worked, but like everyone already said, the whole [spoiler]Time Lord[/spoiler] part of the plot seemed rushed as hell.
Wish we'd had a little more insight into how the time war worked, but like everyone already said, the whole [spoiler]Time Lord[/spoiler] part of the plot seemed rushed as hell.
I'm relieved we DIDN'T get more than we did. The Time War has always worked best as a mystery with an occasional clue thrown our way. Spelling it all out would be a mistake.
First time Doctor Who's ever (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_%28Doctor_Who%29) done (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Parting_of_the_Ways) that (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_of_the_Time_Lords).
...I'm sure I could slap a link to an episode or serial with a convenient "neither" resolution to a moral quandary on every word in that sentence, but those were the three I thought of offhand. ...hm. All season finales, too.
Then again, I'm a superhero comics fan; the notion of presenting the deep philosophical question of "Can a hero kill?" and then conveniently sidestepping it by having the Green Goblin accidentally impale himself/Joe Chill fall off a scaffolding/somebody else shoot Joe Chill before Bruce gets the chance is old hat to me.
My dad swears that [spoiler]the mystery Time Lord[/spoiler] is the Doctor's mother, but my money's on his wife. I remember him saying something off-hand to Donna about being married once, and it would be in keeping with his glance over at Donna in a wedding gown.
And of course the thing about Time Lords is that her age doesn't mean anything. The actress's relative age to Tennant, Ward, Ford, etc. is irrelevant to the character's age, because of the various regenerations everybody's experienced over the past 46 years.
A lot of anime does this too. I guess it's just generally weak writing, and a paranoia about taking chances with the property. One of the things I really liked about Battlestar was how characters had to choose something, every time. You gained a way deeper understanding of them by what they'd chosen to do when the chips were down - you could never go back to how things were. CONSEQUENCES. We need more of them in entertainment.
I'm not the biggest fan of Torchwood (I mostly just caught the finale), but one thing I liked was that there didn't seem to be many Deus Ex Machina tossed around until AFTER everyone had made their true colors shown.
I was always hazy on this, but we've been following the Doctor since his first regeneration, right?
So the first Doctor, that old, grumpy bastard, would likely be the man she'd married.
The relative ages of Time Lords in general aside, it's not too far-fetched. He literally became a different person than the man she'd fallen in love with.
Wasn't it Eccleston's Doctor who mentioned about once having a wife and child?
I'm kinda on the I think it's his mother, but I would be good with either way. I like to think that he's making sure nothing goes wrong at Donna's wedding this time...after what happened last time..
These emails don’t just describe the process of writing the Specials, they are part of the process – at one point, Davies actually decides that Wilf should be the one who causes the Doctor’s regeneration in the middle of an email.
There’s also a very interesting entry where Davies discusses the way he writes Doctor Who, which answers a recurring criticism. Discussing rewatching a repeat of “The Sound Of Drums”, he ponders the fact that you suddenly learn about things like the Archangel network, the Valiant, and the TARDIS becoming a Paradox Machine out of nowhere, with no advance seeding or foreshadowing in the script:
“I can see how annoying that looks. I can see how maddening it must be, for some people. Especially if you’re imposing really classical script structures and templates on that episode, even unconsciously. I must look like a vandal, a kid or an amateur… The simple fact is, all those things were planned. All of them were my choice. They’re not lazy, clumsy or desperate. They’re chosen. I can see more traditional ways of telling those stories, but I’m not interested. I think the stuff that you gain from writing in this way – the shock, the whirlwind, the freedom, the exhilaration – is worth the world. I’ve got this sort of tumbling, freewheeling style that somersaults along, with everything happening now - not later, not before, but now, now, now. I’ve made a Doctor Who that exists in the present tense. It’s happening now, right in front of your eyes! If you don’t like it, if you don’t join in with it then… blimey, these episodes must be nonsensical. But those classical structures can be seen in Primeval, in Demons, in Merlin, in all of them – and yet we stand with millions more viewers. And I think that’s partly why.”
A line was cut from the scene where the Doctor talks to Wilf on the Vinvocci spaceship. He would have explained that he “was half-human back in 1999 for a couple of days” (a reference to the Paul McGann movie)
Another [possible episode] was a kind of Star Trek pastiche - essentially “the Doctor on board the Enterprise, puncturing all that Starfleet pomposity with this sheer Doctor-ness”.
...a Doctor Who/Star Trek crossover was seriously on their list of plans, until Enterprise was axed.
Who’s that mysterious woman in “The End Of Time”? Here it is from the horse’s mouth: “I like leaving it open, because then you can imagine what you want. I think the fans will say it's Romana. Or even the Rani. Some might say that it's Susan's mother, I suppose. But of course it’s meant to be the Doctor’s mother”.
For two or three days, Russell was planning to bring back the Daleks for “The End Of Time” too. They would have been in an alliance with the Time Lords, and there would have been a Dalek Parliament and a Dalek Minister. He eventually changed his mind after learning that Steven Moffat is using the pepperpots in season five.
Both Martha and Mickey were originally planned to feature in Children Of Earth. Freema Agyeman became unavailable when she was cast in Law And Order: London. Mickey was only written out a week before the read-through, when Noel Clarke was offered a role in a Michael Winterbottom film.
As you’ve probably seen reported elsewhere, there was, incredibly, talk of a Torchwood musical, with the blokes from Abba involved!
Other ideas were considered for the Easter special. One was very space opera, all dogfights and spaceships, with the Doctor arriving in the midst of a war in space. One of the races involved might have been the Chelonians - man-sized tortoises from Gareth Roberts’s Who novel The Highest Science.
Another centred around a deserted hotel, and would have seen weird, spindly-legged alien creatures like centaurs, with singsong voices, freezing Earth in time for a bizarre carnival procession.
QuoteAs you’ve probably seen reported elsewhere, there was, incredibly, talk of a Torchwood musical, with the blokes from Abba involved!
I think at this point, the term "musical episode" should be code for "jumped the shark".
It's not unreasonable to say the the guy just makes up shit he wants to see in a Doctor Who episode and figures out the actual plot later on. I think what tends to go horribly, horribly wrong is that every story becomes a paper-thin vehicle to bring the cast from this zany situation to that one so the Doctor can drive the Titanic or make a Douglas Adams reference or inject cameos or get a certain line out. Nothing comes naturally, it's all just point A to point B to point C.
I'm all about casually dropping hints or backstory reveals without losing momentum, but Davis seems to want to reap the surprise and "oh wow" of backstory without actually building one. He just makes shit up on the spot and barely revisits it, making it all essentially meaningless.
I think at this point, the term "musical episode" should be code for "jumped the shark".
The race to save the planet that’s unfolding on the village green will, Gillan says, help to show viewers what bonds the Doctor and Amy together. 'They’re two of a kind. They’re both a bit lost,’ she says. 'Because Amy has no parents
Both Moffat and Wenger seem eager to address one rumour that persistently dogs the current Doctor Who production: budget cuts.
[...]
Moffat has a spikier retort. 'This is going to sound pious,’ he says, 'but the original Tardis was a budget cut. It was. They couldn’t afford to make a spaceship. They couldn’t afford even to do a magic door. They couldn’t afford to do a sphere. So someone came up with, Why don’t we do a police box? And it’s bigger on the inside. That’s the single best idea, I think – though I am a bit prejudiced – in all of fiction.’
This new Tardis – not an obligatory accessory for each new Doctor, but required by the damage done to it in Tennant’s last episode – is big. It must be three times the size of Tennant’s, on multiple levels with staircases in between. Less grubby than its predecessor, with a transparent plastic floor on the main level, its walls are resplendent with polished copper and its central column features a blown glass decoration that could be straight from Tales of the Unexpected. There are old car seats and downstairs – downstairs! – a swing. With a nod to Paul McGann’s Tardis, the central column features an old TV screen on an extendable trellis. It also has a 1980s-style computer keyboard, and a His-Master’s-Voice style trumpet speaker.
Most importantly, from the moment he stumbles out of his crashed Tardis, Smith is certainly his own Doctor. Less prickly than Eccleston and without the slapstick of Tennant, he brings an air of muddled intensity that’s a bit reminiscent of, say, Tom Baker (though without the stripy scarf).
I don't think there's an official (British) premier date yet; as far as I know it's still "probably Easter." Still, that's just another month.From the article you linked:
'Doctor Who’ returns to BBC One on April 3:glee:
Maybe this isn't new but it is my view: Doctor Who is a fairy tale – not sci-fi, not fantasy but properly a fairy tale. And I don't mean Disney-style where the endings are changed and everyone lives. Doctor Who is how we warn our children that there are people in the world who want to eat them.
Moving forward: we've seen some hints of things to come. The fact that the old lady (Jeff's mom?) recognized him is certain to come back. And of course the now-standard prophesying.
I love how Moffat plays with time. First in The Girl in the Fireplace, then in Blink, then with River Song in the library episodes. And of course, in this episode too, where [spoiler]five minutes for the Doctor turns out of be "twelve years and four psychiatrists" for Amy Pond.[/spoiler]
I think for RTD time was just a destination, but it's clear that Moffat is treating time-travel as an integral part of the show rather than just a reason for ladies to wear Victorian bonnets.
I liked this regeneration episode better than the Christmas Invasion
...you can't POSSIBLY believe he's going to get her back on time.
...anyway. I see it as less "he's always late" and more "he has a lot less control over the TARDIS than he pretends to". Which is not a new theme.
GOD
FUCKING
DAMNIT
WHY DO I HAVE TO BE CAUGHT UP ON DOCTOR WHO SO I CAN'T JUST POUND THROUGH THE ENTIRE SEASON IN TWO DAYS
...you can't POSSIBLY believe he's going to get her back on time.
...anyway. I see it as less "he's always late" and more "he has a lot less control over the TARDIS than he pretends to". Which is not a new theme.
I do, actually, but only because of the episode preview where she's married.
"There aren't 13 episodes of Doctor Who this year," adds Piers Wenger, Head of Drama, BBC Wales and Executive Producer, Doctor Who. "There are 17 - four of which are interactive.["]
GOD
FUCKING
DAMNIT
WHY DO I HAVE TO BE CAUGHT UP ON DOCTOR WHO SO I CAN'T JUST POUND THROUGH THE ENTIRE SEASON IN TWO DAYS
Loved the "THIS ISN'T GOING TO BE HIGH ON DIGNITY" bit, too.
Little heavy on the election-year moralizing, but pretty good overall I thought.The day after this episode aired, the incumbent Labour Party released this party political broadcast (http://bit.ly/cEsysU) starring Pertwee Jr and with David Tennant doing the voiceover. Seems Dr Who is doing the election and the election is doing Dr Who. Or maybe we've just become so obsessed with Dr Who as a nation that we need a Time Lord to tell us who we should vote for.
[spoiler]Lots of words behind a spoiler tag.[/spoiler]I agree the whole thing about building a country around a whale flying around in space was incredibly dumb, but an energy source that comes at the cost of the lives of innocent people and children, as well as the larger theme of whether torture can be necessary, may not be entirely nonsensical in an episode where elections are a constant theme and that aired just three weeks before the UK goes to the polls to decide whether we want to keep the government that took us to Iraq and Afghanistan. I'm glad it wasn't 45 minutes of posturing over Iraq, but let's not pretend there isn't a less-fantastical real world parallel going on right this very second.
Coming on the heels of the Doctor moralizing to Amy about how she doesn't get to make decision for him, he then proceeds to begin making a massive, torturous decision for the rest of the society. It's blatant hypocrisy that weakens the character.
But that's only part of the problem. While he's doing this, the Doctor shoots off a quick line about how after he's done, he'll have to pick a new name because, "I sure as hell won't be the Doctor anymore." This implies that he knows full well the horrors of what he's about to do, and is willing to go through with it. In effect, the Doctor openly admits that what he is doing violates his own moral code, but still considers himself to be the only one who can make that decision.
Then after that, nothing.
I dislike the episodes that imply that deep down, the Doctor is a controlling murderer who is only kept in check because other people have the foresight and determination to stop him. This takes the character from being a thoughtful, morally ambiguous yet ultimately benevolent being to just being an irrational psychopath who follows his base urges.
A very important aspect of the Doctor’s own past will finally be dealt with this season as Newsarama learned exclusively – The Doctor’s regeneration limit. “It’s been addressed in a very, very cheeky way by an old friend of mine and I’m not going to tell you any more about that,” said Moffat, telling us to “wait and see.”
Something you don’t have to wait for is discovering who the Eleventh Doctor’s Big Bad will be. Smith told the crowd it’s seen in the very first episode. “Albeit, not in the most conventional form. You’re going to have to think about it and find out what it is, but it’s in there,” he said. “And that’s the one, that’s what takes us through the whole series and my god, it’s bad.”
Also, in the preview for next week, the Doctor greets the blonde lady seen in the previous previews with [spoiler]"River?"[/spoiler]
Keen observers will notice that her diary is quite a bit slimmer in this episode.
This was very very good
Also whoa, guess River's from two or three regenerations down the line then, huh?
Also whoa, guess River's from two or three regenerations down the line then, huh?
Okay. That was awesome. How could the weeping angels be scarier? Can't wait for next week. Until then I am obsessively watching episodes of old Doctor Who because SHIT GOD WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME.
Also, in the season preview trailer, we see the Doctor running from Angels using a mirror to see in front and behind himself at the same time. This did not happen. Will there be more Angels in our future?
those things didn't bother me so much as the angels sending people back into time thing just going away entirely and now they absorb generic "energy".
Also there were definitely security cameras and such in that parking lot that would've captured images of the first angels etc.
Finally, it seems like this swarm of angels is constantly in positions where they are seeing one another which you'd think would be really messing them up, since even a glance mid-step would presumably cause one to fall right over unbalanced.
Really reminded me of the episode Tooth and Claw
I dunno, Turn Left was ALL JUST A DREAM whereas Amy's Choice was a shared experience based on and around elements of all characters, with the Doctor himself as the antagonist. I see one as fairly significant and interesting character development, and the other as a throwaway one-off filler episode.
Donna just dreamed all that because of SPACE BEETLE
here, it was something they, or even just the Doctor, was actively doing.
Like this is their subconscious made manifest, rather than a bullshit Voyager episode revolving entirely around showing off Martha as some kind of future badass and not, you know, the character we actually know up until that point.
Donna just dreamed all that because of SPACE BEETLE
Which is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from space ROCKS. I mean, duh. One's a beetle, the other is rocks.
The Dream Master is actually what I wished the Master was - an selfish Doctor motivated by petty self-interest and jealousy rather than some cartoonishly evil cosmic dominance plan.
I suppose it would be better to say one is a WHAT IF THE DOCTOR DIED one-shot whereas the other is what is actually happening in the Doctor's head right now. One carries some kind of lasting implications for the future while the other is tidily resolved and disregarded by prying a beetle off her back.
Also I'm still not convinced that the space rocks were actually the cause of it all. When he brought those out, my first thought was that he's lying to the two of them to cover up something he's ashamed of. It did seem mighty convenient of him to just wake up and find the cause of the problem immediately, whisking it out the door along with everything else that had happened. Could just be over thinking it, though.
But it's still dropping hints in the overarching narrative.
I'm about 99% sure that Amy and Rory's future selves are going to be important later.
I think the Doctor's observation that time can be rewritten is at the core of what's going on here, and I suspect that Moffat's setting up a Prisoner-of-Azkaban-the-Movie-style story where we're seeing events from one perspective and will see them from another perspective later on.
Sort of like Bad Wolf, except less stupid.
The first adventure game is available, but, like the streaming episodes, the download page is region-locked. So if you want the game, pretty much get it however you get the episodes.
A certain face shows up for the fourth time this series; another for a third; and others for a second time
As for this episode, solid, but clearly filler.
Okay, THAT is how you do a part 1.
The only problem is that, instead of leaving me sort of worn out on the whole Doctor Who thing for awhile, long enough for a new season to roll around anyway, right now I have a huge Doctor Who boner that won't be satisfied in the least until December
Anybody got City of the Daleks running? I've got it downloaded but since I need to set up a proxy to install it, and since I'm wary of the torrent I grabbed because apparently some of them have trojans, I might re-download.Might be able to set you up on our VPN for this purpose. But I won't even be on the same continent as the server for another two weeks, so if you've got aspirations of playing that thing any time soon then some proxy fiddling seems to be the way to go.
Might be able to set you up on our VPN for this purpose. But I won't even be on the same continent as the server for another two weeks, so if you've got aspirations of playing that thing any time soon then some proxy fiddling seems to be the way to go.
Are they canon?
Thad I'm kind of horrified that you are apparently following Sarah Jane Adventures. This is like Doctor Who Extreme all over again!
Scared of the eye in space? You should be.
Bow Street Runners are cool.
Some lies are too much for the psychic paper.
What awaits the TARDIS at the zero point.
"How could a fellow Gallifreyan stoop so low?"
The Doctor will get married - twice.
Pay attention - its not really her.
The bones of the TARDIS.
QuoteAs [Sarah and Jo] reminisce, viewers of the show will watch video flashbacks of previous Time Lords William Hartnell, Patrick Troughton, Jon Pertwee and Tom Baker, whilst their iconic nemeses The Daleks, Sea Devils, Sontarans and Davros also make a return.
In case anyone is wondering how Jo and Sarah Jane are going to reminisce about two Doctors they never met, I'd guess we'll be seeing clips from the Third Doctor and Jo adventure "The Three Doctors," which was William Hartnell's one brief return to the show.
1. Doctors 1, 2, 3, 4, 10 and 11 all make an appearance.
[...]
6. The Doctor doesn't have to be white. And he can regenerate more than 12 times - a lot more!
8. Jo Jones (née Grant) has 7 children and (almost) 13 grandchildren.
And I think it all ties in to a hint he dropped in an interview I read that he'd resolve the regeneration cap sometime during his run on the show.
Yeah, apparently by just ignoring it (http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2010/oct/12/doctor-who-immortal-reveals-bbc?CMP=twt_gu)
That's a damn fine matte painting of the UNIT base.
Yeah, about eight hours earlier.
And loneliness, Moffat's main Doctor motif
There's a little bit of gender politics at work here. Stripped of Who's derring-do and down to brass tacks, this is a story about an old man who keeps a woman in a box in his basement.I agree 100% with this blog post about the gender politics in the Christmas special (http://averypublicsociologist.blogspot.com/2010/12/doctor-whos-christmas-carol.html), but it didn't affect my enjoyment of the episode one single bit.
They don't force her to do anything, and it's implied that she has input on several if not all of their adventures. She's got eight days left, and she has an amazing opportunity to live them more fully than just about anyone else. So my reply to this is is a solid "Hrumph".
Did anyone else notice that Amy's house and the nonexistent second floor from The Lodger have the same stairs?
Some of the jokes are a little dated (Clippy? Wasn't he removed from Office in 2003?)
Since the revival, as fans there's always been a tiny little bit of nervous apprehension about revealing to people quite how deeply you are into Doctor Who. With this, it looks like those days are over. Doctor Who might now be one of the coolest, sexiest, smartest most stylish things on television.Doubt it, but I'm all for Doctor Who being a little more adult and a lot less fucking twee.
River Song is [spoiler]Amy Pond's daughter[/spoiler] or the idea of [spoiler]Amy Pond having a kid[/spoiler] is being juxtaposed with an episode full of who-is-River-Songiness intentionally to provide theorist fodder.
[spoiler]Given this, I initially assumed it was her in the spacesuit. Given that she seemed pretty surprised by the whole thing, I assumed that the "her" in the spacesuit was from her future. And given that we'd already seen her in prison earlier in the episode, this introduced the possibility that she was actually convicted and sentenced BEFORE committing the murder -- which sounds like a Moffat plot, doesn't it?[/spoiler]
According to tvdb (http://thetvdb.com/?tab=season&seriesid=78804&seasonid=372611&lid=7), it is in fact going to drop us straight into the middle of a cliffhanger, with a "Part 1" as the last episode before the break.:endit:
Next week we've got The Curse of the Black Spot, followed by Gaiman's The Doctor's Wife. Then we've got a two-parter, The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People, and then A Good Man Goes to War, the first of a two-parter. And then the break.
Part 2's title is unrevealed as yet; the other titles we've got so far are What are Little Boys Made Of? and The God Complex.
Anyhow, the "A Good Man Goes to War" recalls the Doctor's reference to starting a revolution, as well as River's statement that she killed the best man she ever knew.
We still don't know what exactly caused the events of last season's finale. Who built the Pandorica? Who blew up the TARDIS? So there's still more to go on.
Pregnancy also played a really, really big role in this one. There was [spoiler]Amy's maybe-pregnancy, the orphanage, Nixon points out that one of the security heads is about to have a child, and the entire time-span of the episode was 9 months. Also was anyone else reminded of a womb and birth when they saw they were explaining the exosuit?[/spoiler]
And I can't help but think the scene in the Orphanage was a ton of clues being dropped [spoiler]multiple memory wipes can affect the mind, the man losing over 2 years of his life, the repeated GET OUTS on the wall[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Friend points out: what the woman in the wall said sounded like labor coach talk.[/spoiler]
Broader, rambling speculation: I get the feeling the Moff likes weirdness too much to let the Doctor and River Song's relationship play out with its slated tragic linearity (or... bi-linearity or something, i don't know what to call it.)
Eventually a wrench is going to get thrown in, possibly related to the whole [spoiler]"you gonna get murdered by a spaceman"[/spoiler] thing, or the Doctor's going to get proactive as he starts to experience what characterized all River's early appearances, that feeling of "oh god, you're so young." Latter would be interesting, as since late period Tennant/first season Smith the doctor's been giving less of a shit about messing with timelines he's already a part of and generally breaking the rules.
the "there/not there" thingI get the feeling the "two cars parked in the same space" theme from this episode may end up being important further on in the series.
...so they're going to turn into the Nestenes, right?
And wouldn't it be neat if the reason Rory was resurrected as an Auton is that he was kind to the original Autons?
It was super telegraphed like Thad said, so not a surprise, but [spoiler]I'm still kicking myself for not immediately going Melody Pond = River Song at the beginning of the episode.[/spoiler]
As it happens, I've only just watched "Silence in the Library" and "Forest of the Dead", and I couldn't help but noticing something...
The new companion is ginger. You know who else is ginger? River Song.
Steven Moffat wrote those two episodes. He's also the new lead writer.
I wonder.
[spoiler]Here's a noodler that I've been struggling with. The time-cops recognized River by profiling the TARDIS. This seems to imply that she will be the sole owner and pilot of the TARDIS during the time she kills the Doctor, since that's when she became the kind of criminal they track.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Also like that killing the Doctor alone puts you on the level of Hitler, because of his potential to save lives.[/spoiler]
I couldn't help liking that the whole Hitler thing was a complete red herring and after the first few minutes he spent the rest of the episode locked in a closet. Also, the villains took the whole killing Hitler thing to its logical extreme. Almost rational horribleness makes for great bad guys, and it even put the indolent, coprolitic Time Lords into a little bit of perspective. Inaction almost seems like the least of the evils when this sort of self righteous fuckassery is the alternative.
I'm also a little disappointed that in locking River down to those three incarnations and establishing this as their first meeting it kind of precludes the possibility of using her as a recurring antagonist through multiple regenerations. Oh well. I can also see how it could have gotten tired fast, but I think there might have been potential there.
Well, that was...a better version of Fear Her, I guess.
The writing in this one was almost unforgivably sloppy. I'll take the Paper House homage any day when the alternative is the Doctor spending ten minutes talking about how MONSTERS ARE REAL HOLY SHIT THIS IS SOME SERIOUS FUCKING SH oh hey the kid's just an alien okay peace.
The Unquiet Dead, The Idiot's Lantern, and Victory of the Daleks...
[spoiler] "You're turning me into you!" Rory has studied enough and has seen enough to know how "bigger on the inside" works. Since Last Centurion time, he's lived as long as the Doctor. He's not as well-traveled, but he knows 2000 years of being completely alone. And Rory really is about 5 tough decisions/tragedies away from being another Doctor.
I'm not saying they're actually doing that obviously, but he's definitely been groomed for the position at this point.
[/spoiler]
Quote[spoiler] "You're turning me into you!" Rory has studied enough and has seen enough to know how "bigger on the inside" works. Since Last Centurion time, he's lived as long as the Doctor. He's not as well-traveled, but he knows 2000 years of being completely alone. And Rory really is about 5 tough decisions/tragedies away from being another Doctor.
I'm not saying they're actually doing that obviously, but he's definitely been groomed for the position at this point.
[/spoiler]
You know, Roranicus, Centurion of Time would be a pretty great show. I'd watch it.
I was hoping that rory being the centurion would still be a thing. "I waited 36 years for you" vs "I waited 2000 years for you"
and then badass amy and centurion rory ride off into the sunset to be badass together
[spoiler]“It’s [set] 200 years after The God Complex – for the Doctor, anyway. All the stuff you saw at the very beginning of The Impossible Astronaut, with him waving to Amy through all time and space, he’s been doing that. [/spoiler]
Once again, it's going to be damn tough to answer all the lingering questions in the remaining one episode. Wonder if it'll have an extra 15 minutes on it or suchlike.
Amazing, but a whole fucking year's wait? Get some fucking work ethic, British TV.
Mekka Lekka Hi Mekka Hiney Ho!
(http://i.imgur.com/q1AiM.jpg)
Loose ends:[spoiler]Sure it was. The last minute of the show was them asking the question. He just didn't answer. I guess when Smith dies, he'll answer the Question. Fall of the Eleventh and all that.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]The Question has still not been asked, and the Silence has still not fallen.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Well, we know the second bit. And the first bit? [spoiler]I assume she was there. Which means we have to deal with River until Matt's dead if I'm right, the poor bastard.[/spoiler]
And of course, the very first question from when we first met River: how does she learn the Doctor's name, and why is it important?[/spoiler]
Well, we know the second bit.
And the first bit? [spoiler]I assume she was there. Which means we have to deal with River until Matt's dead if I'm right, the poor bastard.[/spoiler]
But yeah. Of course [spoiler]that was the question. It would have been retarded for it to be anything else. And of course it was the tessaract. I didn't see the Doctor riding inside of it coming, but that makes sense.[/spoiler]
Rest of the episode was pretty neat and I enjoyed it. I just kind of wish we could get away from River and The Silence for a while. Maybe one or two episodes next season with one or two mentions before there. Light foreshadowing. I like the ideas of both River and The Silence, but they've taken over the show and I'm not entirely tickled by how they turned out.
The overall plan for Cartmel was to reveal that the Doctor was some form of a reincarnation of The Other (http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Other), a mysterious figure from Gallifrey's past who helped form the Time Lord society and perfect the time travel technology of the Time Lords.
They still haven't addressed why the Silence want to build a TARDIS. They say they just want to kill The Doctor because he's dangerous, but if someone were trying to make their own TARDIS, bumping off the last of the Time Lords would probably be a smart move.
Speaking of the Silence, I don't believe anyone's mentioned this in this thread, but it's pretty clear that they're supposed to be the basis for the Men in Black stories, right?
Also, in The God Complex, the gambler dude was wearing a horseshoe tie-pin, and a horseshoe is basically just an upside-down Omega symbol.
They still haven't addressed why the Silence want to build a TARDIS. They say they just want to kill The Doctor because he's dangerous, but if someone were trying to make their own TARDIS, bumping off the last of the Time Lords would probably be a smart move.
Or vice-versa. Do they want to take out the Doctor so no one will interfere with their getting a TARDIS, or do they want to build a TARDIS so they can more easily take out the Doctor?
I imagine both goals are somewhat complementary. They want the Doctor dead not just because he's generally dangerous but because he's dangerous to them in particular -- if he survives, Silence Will Fall. And they want a TARDIS because -- well, we don't know for sure, but c'mon, EVERYBODY wants a TARDIS. You don't really need a reason.
Speaking of the Silence, I don't believe anyone's mentioned this in this thread, but it's pretty clear that they're supposed to be the basis for the Men in Black stories, right?Well, the entire history of Doctor Who is full of aliens and government coverups, at least on back to Troughton. The Silence are just one more entry in a long tradition. (I still love the idea that those 17 missing minutes in the Nixon tapes aren't actually missing, though.)
Which is why in the year five billion or whenever people are often still wearing pretty typical 19th-20th century suits. They're just picking up the idea from impossible-to-remember aliens without realizing it. Man, I wish they'd use that as a throwaway line at some point.
Moffat mentioned that he modeled the Silents after the Thin Men alien myth. Basically, aliens that disguise themselves as G-men and abduct people under the guise of being from the government.
It's a cool idea to use as a launching point.
Interviewer: “What was your reaction when they first told you that you had the part, and where were you?”
New Companion Actress: “I was in Marks and Spencers holding an avocado, having a debate about what goes best in a salmon salad.”
Commentary by actors Sylvester McCoy and Sophie Aldred
Back to School making-of documentary featuring Simon Williams, Karen Gledhill, Ben Aaronovitch, Andrew Cartmel, and Andrew Morgan (32 mins)
Remembrances Influences and references to earlier Doctor Who adventures (15 mins)
Extended and Deleted Scenes introduced by Sylvester McCoy and Sophie Aldred (12 mins)
Outtakes (4 mins)
Multi-Angle Sequences (2 mins)
Isolated Music Option
New Dolby 5.1 Surround Mix exclusive to this DVD
Trails and Continuities (5 mins)
Photo Gallery (8 mins)
Easter egg
DVD-ROM material: Radio Times listings
Production Notes Subtitle Option
Digitally remastered picture and sound quality
Disc 2:
Davros Connections In-depth look at the history of the Daleks' creator (43 mins)
Extended and deleted scenes
Alternate angles: Chemistry Lab, Gate Explosion
Outtakes compilation
Optional subtitled production notes
Who's who
Photo gallery
A team from the University of Dundee has invented the first device capable of turning objects using ultrasound waves.
:joke:
McBain - Let's Get Silly! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDEuLXLNGBo#)
That's The Joke (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSRildGCw64#)
That's the Joke (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xECUrlnXCqk#)
It's not like I'm grasping at straws here. That's how I read the scenes when I saw them.
I know Amy addressed it a little last season, but how is Amy's emotional state since she was never allowed to physically raise Melody from a baby? Even though she and Rory grew up with Melody she never actually raised her as a baby. How are you going to deal with that this season?
Karen Gillan: Well actually, what's really interesting is there's a pretty huge revelation along those lines. I can't tell you anything about it. But yea, we are going to learn something very, very vital to that story line. And it's going to be dealt with through that. We're going to see a whole new side of Amy and Rory and their relationship, in the first episode.
for some reason they have fucking nanogenes that turn humans into Daleks. Forehead-glow human/daleks were also dumb.
(Alternately -- and the point that her character's name is Clara, not Oswin, would seem to support this -- it could just be that they're double-dipping like they did with Martha and Amy.)
And I did mention during my awards speech that only a madman or a fool would tempt fate by doing it again, having won. And that I am now on my third draft...
As of right now, you could blame it all on somebody's superhuman hacking ability, though I'm hopeful in the next episode, we'll see more direct evidence of the effect spreading to human memories. (possibly with a "who was that bowtied man?" variant, where the population of Mercy forget the Doctor the moment he leaves town)
Personally, my suspicions point straight back to The Silence.
We already know they can make themselves memory-proof. What if they've found a way to do the same to The Doctor, and it's all part of the plan to make sure the first question never gets answered? (first remove the man, then remove the myth?) It would be a clever cheat on Moffat's part if "Doctor Who?" came to be less about knowing the Doctor's real name, and more about the man the entire universe has forgotten trying to reassert his identity.
Also, if you were wondering how Clara and Oswin could be the same person and not know the Doctor... there you go. Problem solved.
I've been having the same discussion over on OG, and somebody pointed out the brilliant idea that "The Question" asked will be by The Doctor, for The Doctor -- that the forgetting effect will finally end up spreading to him as well, and he will end up forgetting who he is (The "fall of the 11th" mentioned by Dorian)
If so, the Doctor's oddly undoctorly behavior in both this episode and the next, plus all those "remember" and "Doctor Who" lines Moffat has been scattering across the last three seasons will finally pay off in a way none of us expected.
From the trailers I figured this'd be the most horseshit of the lot. Figures it'd end up being my favorite out of the last couple seasons.
Not so much riddled with cliches as reveling in them, and the pacing actually worked when they weren't trying to cram in a dinosaur chase or whatever every five minutes. Made time for actual, you know, character development and shit. And I love the almost cartoonish portrayal of Americans. Good times.
Oh, and of course it's Toby Whitehouse. I'd only just started on Being Human last night. Had to skip back and check the opening credits when I was about halfway through. Hell if the guy doesn't have a noticeable style with the dialogue.
Yeah, and he also mentioned Christmas in the Dalek ep, so that's the buzzword for the half-season.
And I just finished the first season of Being Human and I like it alright. It goes pretty heavy on the cliches and doesn't subvert them nearly enough, but entertaining nonetheless. Like a particularly thoughtful World of Darkness GM got ahold of a TV series. Definitely appreciate the writing more than the direction and editing, which implements so many contemporary pop songs and montages that I'm put in mind of a shitty 90s MTV series. Of course, that's almost nostalgic, so whatevs. I hear it goes to shit in the last season, but we'll see. Also, as usual, the American take on it is complete and utter dogshit.
In your egg mention list, there was also Rory yelling about Dalek eggs.
I GUESS there's Jack's death as the Face of Boe, but that's really stretching things.
Could the script just be alluding to adventures we haven't seen? There are supposed to be over a thousand years' worth of those, after all.
...you know, this is inconsequential canon nitpicking, but something else: he referred to his companions and said "Some die."
Some, as in plural.
Who's died besides Adric?
Ah-har -- yeah, I can see how I missed that one, what with there only being 3 surviving episodes out of 12. Worth checking out the Lost in Time sets? I've been meaning to give them a look but they're not exactly high-priority on my Old Who To-Watch list.
something interesting was supposed to have happened but mostly didn't.
Eccelston season is on sale in new packaging for $20.
Found mine at Wal-Mart.
Anyone else get a weird Deja Vu of Silence in the Library?
I quite enjoy the Doctor's inevitable "You fucked with the wrong guy" moment toward the end. I'm also not sure the GI didn't think they could win. It's only met the Doctor twice we know of, and might not know how much of a bad idea it is to mess with him.
Well, it definitely knows enough about the Doctor to know he's associated with UNIT, so it tracks that he's been keeping track
I can't recall, was their any mention of the GI or similar in Asylum of the Daleks? I don't think there was, but it woulddefinitely tie Clara in pretty solidly.
Also, and this is just bugging me, but [spoiler]does anyone else think there is supposed to be some significance to the ring? Is it supposed to be Victorian Clara's ring? Because "Oh yeah, the aliens all gave me this off screen" just seems so out of place for some reason. I'm probably just grasping at straws here, but that scene felt like it was supposed to have some other meeting.[/spoiler]
Also, and this is just bugging me, but [spoiler]does anyone else think there is supposed to be some significance to the ring? Is it supposed to be Victorian Clara's ring? Because "Oh yeah, the aliens all gave me this off screen" just seems so out of place for some reason. I'm probably just grasping at straws here, but that scene felt like it was supposed to have some other meeting.[/spoiler]
Wasn't that just [spoiler] her speederbike fare?[/spoiler]
the Great Intelligence manipulating events to an end (in much the same way the Evil Guide does in Mostly Harmless).
Liked just about everything about it save for [spoiler]the lingering shot of the monster near the end. I realize they were changing the tone from "creepy" to "sympathetic," but its head looks like a toe.[/spoiler]
We haven't seen any Omega clue this season, have we?
We haven't seen any Omega clue this season, have we?
I don't think so
Well ho-lee shit, THAT'S how you do a cliffhanger. [spoiler]Without actually telling us the Doctor's name.
Bleeding Cool has had a theory since they first saw set photos of John Hurt in a leather jacket, and I think they're right: John Hurt's character is an incarnation that falls between the Eighth and Ninth Doctor. And the title of the episode is an elegant way of allowing us to still call the Ninth, Tenth, and Eleventh Doctor the Ninth, Tenth, and Eleventh Doctor, even though they're actually his tenth, eleventh, and twelfth incarnation. John Hurt is an incarnation who wasn't the Doctor, who was the General in the Time War who wiped out the Daleks and Time Lords.
Of course, it also means that "the fall of the eleventh" could refer to David Tennant instead of Matt Smith. AND the Valeyard -- who gets explicitly namedropped in this episode -- was described as an amalgamation of the Doctor's twelfth and thirteenth incarnations, which now means Matt Smith and the next guy.
(I've never seen Trial of a Time Lord and I hear it's awful. I'm not going to have to watch it, am I?)[/spoiler]
Also: why yes I DID notice the irony of Richard Grant trying to erase the Doctor from history. Nice touch there.
Anyhow, yeah, that was pretty great. Guess I'll bounce around the Internet looking at spoilers now.
Indeed. [spoiler]The main thing I've been wondering about since seeing Bleeding Cool float the theory of an incarnation between McGann and Eccleston is, how does that work with the clearly-established nomenclature that Eccleston is the Ninth Doctor and so on? And Moffat went and found an elegant solution. "I didn't say he was the Doctor, I said he was ME."[/spoiler]
EDIT TO ADD: and "the first question" -- well, [spoiler]the first and biggest question from the 2005 series is "What happened in the Time War?"[/spoiler]
DORIUM: "On the fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the Eleventh, when no living creature may speak falsely or fail to give answer, a question will be asked. A question that must never, ever be answered."
THE DOCTOR: "Silence will fall when the question is asked..."
DORIUM: "Silence must fall" would be a better translation. The Silence are determined that the question must never be answered. The Doctor must never reach Trenzalore.
THE DOCTOR: I don't understand? What's it got do do with me?
DORIUM: The first question. The oldest question in the universe, hidden in plain sight. Would you like to know what it is?
THE DOCTOR: Yes.
DORIUM: "Doctor who?"
[spoiler]As for what happened during the Time War, even with this latest tease, I hope we never really find out. It could never meet the hype[/spoiler]
Anyway, let's go back to the prophecy:QuoteDORIUM: "On the fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the Eleventh, when no living creature may speak falsely or fail to give answer, a question will be asked. A question that must never, ever be answered."
THE DOCTOR: "Silence will fall when the question is asked..."
DORIUM: "Silence must fall" would be a better translation. The Silence are determined that the question must never be answered. The Doctor must never reach Trenzalore.
THE DOCTOR: I don't understand? What's it got do do with me?
DORIUM: The first question. The oldest question in the universe, hidden in plain sight. Would you like to know what it is?
THE DOCTOR: Yes.
DORIUM: "Doctor who?"
I read that as "Danny Glover for Doctor"
If the TARDIS is responsible, then holy shit, she must be a sadist, with all the nonsense she puts the Doctor and his companions through.
But yeah, I'm totally hooked on Who, and it's taking all my willpower to not go back through this thread and read the discussion from 5 years ago, because the discussion from 5 years ago starts about where I am right now in the series. I just watched the Pompeii episode last night.
Thanks, Smiler. Totally gonna get on that gravy train tonight, after "The Next Doctor". Kinda ruins the mystery of the episode, because I saw the teaser before leaving for work, and THAT'S NOT MATT SMITH. YOU LYING LIARS.
CYBERLEADER: Magic is not logical
THE DOCTOR: I know – isn’t it great?
The Master: Yes, it is I, your most-
Doctor: Oh for fuck's sake! I saw yeh die like three different ways the last time you fucking cockroach. You're like an old woman's period, just when you think it's finally gone for good! Fucking hell!
I'm caught up. Holy shit. What the fuck is John Hurt doing there? I avoided clicking all the links for the discussion of The Name of the Doctor.
It was weird of him to build up the Doctor's name, and then never reveal it. If he was doing something clever, clearly, I missed that.
I dunno. Unless the story goes back to when before Nine met Rose in "Rose", it's going to mean Rose is coming back from the alternate dimension, which could mean that Tennant is the Meta-Crisis Doctor from the Season 4 finale. It's unlikely, but holy crap.
I'm still bummed out that Eccleston isn't coming back for this. Dude should realize that he started a legacy for this new era, and he should be a part of it. He's honestly my favorite Doctor, though I haven't seen any of 1-8.
We are aware that Peter Capaldi’s played a big old part in Doctor Who before and we’re not going to ignore the fact… and Torchwood. I’ll let you in on this. I remember Russell [T Davies] told me he had a big old plan as to why there were two Peter Capaldis in the Who universe, one in Pompei and one in Torchwood. When I cast Peter and [Russell] got in touch to say how pleased he was I said “Okay, what was your theory and does it still work?” and he said “Yes it does, here it is.” So I don’t know if we’ll get to it… we’ll play that one out over time. It’s actually quite neat.
The big fun question is, we know that the Doctor when he regenerates, the faces… it’s not set from birth, it’s not that he was always going to be one day Peter Capaldi. We know that’s the case because in The War Games he has a choice of face and all that. We know it’s not set so where does he get those faces from? They can’t just be randomly generated because they’ve got lines and they’ve aged. When he turns into Peter he’ll actually have lines on his face – sorry Peter – so where did that face come from?
He can only regenerate 12 times… I think you should go back to your DVDs and count correctly this time. There’s something you’ve all missed.
Timeline-wise, this has to fall somewhere in Series 2, because I think Rose might have some residual connection to the Time Vortex after getting it in her brain in "Parting of the Ways". In that trailer above, Matt Smith says "I remember this...almost remember." So, if we go by the logic introduced in that special with D5 and D10, then this had to have happened to the actual D10, not Pete's World D10.
He was ordered (forced really) into the events of Genesis, and D10 happens after all of this.
I had it spoiled that Paul McGann was in it without me being aware it was a spoiler
Also: "Will it Hurt?"
lol
Moffat has been more keen to embrace the original run than RTD was
Me too. My thanks to McDohl for spoilertagging properly; the rest of you get a big frowny face. Even though we've suspected this was going to happen for months.Oh yeah, sorry about including the exact same spoiler I was complaining about in my post. Hell, even the BBC used [spoiler]Paul McGann[/spoiler] as its icon for the episode on the website. Apparently nobody was capable of keeping this thing a secret.
It does bear noting that the Impossible Astronaut shot him three times. So the Silence was operating under the impression that the Eleventh Doctor really does only have two lives left. So either we know something they don't, or they know something we don't. (On the one hand, you'd think they'd know about the War Doctor given their obsession with Doctor as Warrior; on the other hand, there's a certain pleasing irony in a cult dedicated to wiping out the Doctor because he's a dangerous warlord not knowing the half of it.)
I'm pretty sure he got shot three times because you gotta kill a dude and what better way to do it than to shoot him a few times. Two to start the regeneration and then another in the middle so he's dead for good.
Also a lot of this stuff seems a lot like Moffat deciding he wants to make more marks on the Doctor Who canon rather than a very well thought out multi-season plan. I GOTTA BE THE ONE WHO HANDWAVES THIS OLD BIT OF CANON AND I'M GONNA DO SO BY INFLATING THE DOCTOR'SPOWER LEVELREGENERATIONS.
[spoiler]So, The Moment. I think that Billie Piper knocked it out of the park with her performance, and what a big curveball as to her presence. Everyone I talked to expected her to just do the same kind of thing that Rose and Sarah Jane did in School Reunion, but what happened? Totally not that. And here's a theory I posited on Talking Time: could The Moment actually contain a TARDIS core? It seems like when she first talks to the War Doctor, she has a lot of the same tics that Idris/Sexy had in "The Doctor's Wife". Mixing up the past and the future, and all.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]So, The Moment. I think that Billie Piper knocked it out of the park with her performance, and what a big curveball as to her presence. Everyone I talked to expected her to just do the same kind of thing that Rose and Sarah Jane did in School Reunion, but what happened? Totally not that. And here's a theory I posited on Talking Time: could The Moment actually contain a TARDIS core? It seems like when she first talks to the War Doctor, she has a lot of the same tics that Idris/Sexy had in "The Doctor's Wife". Mixing up the past and the future, and all.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Though there wasn't a good reason why every Doctor but 11 had to forget the whole thing ever happening, beyond convenience.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]And the Tom Baker bit was largely just pointing and saying "Look, it's Tom Baker," but that's cool.[/spoiler]
The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01m3kfy) is a pretty funny half-hour of Davison, McCoy, and Colin Baker trying to get into the anniversary special. It has a bunch of fun cameos, and Colin Baker still can't act.
[spoiler]People keep arguing about whether we should start bumping up doctors because the War Doctor is accepted again, but everyone is forgetting that the metacrisis doctor is supposed to count for a regeneration now so when they arguing that Capaldi is going to be the 13th, their also forgetting that he's technically going to be the 14th. Get ready for the next episode to cover both the end of the silence arc and bypassing the regeneration limit while still being a Christmas special (no look guys it's snowing on Trenzalor it's totally Christmas).[/spoiler]
My only minor complaint about the 50th have to do with the fact [spoiler] Clara's in it. [/spoiler]
Other than that, wonderful in every way.
(So much for being too small to run on a Saturday night. With this kind of turnout I wouldn't be surprised if they ran it again.)
Well, remember how they kept mentioning Christmas last season? Mentioned it again this episode, too.
A few years ago when Billie Piper was playing Rose, I was very worried because the next week’s episode was called something like The Day Rose Died. I can’t remember exactly what it was called. Well, my children were in love with Rose as a companion, and I was worried about her. So I sent an e-mail off to Russell T. Davies, who of course had grown up on the classic Doctor Who series, and I said “Could you just reassure me that Rose does not, in fact, die because my children shouldn’t watch it if that happens,” and he sent an e-mail back to me saying, “You killed Adric. What do you care?”
Anyway, let's go back to the prophecy:QuoteDORIUM: "On the fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the Eleventh, when no living creature may speak falsely or fail to give answer, a question will be asked. A question that must never, ever be answered."
THE DOCTOR: "Silence will fall when the question is asked..."
DORIUM: "Silence must fall" would be a better translation. The Silence are determined that the question must never be answered. The Doctor must never reach Trenzalore.
THE DOCTOR: I don't understand? What's it got do do with me?
DORIUM: The first question. The oldest question in the universe, hidden in plain sight. Would you like to know what it is?
THE DOCTOR: Yes.
DORIUM: "Doctor who?"
I think it's fair to say that GI shouting "Doctor Who?" wasn't the question any more than the Master's four knocks were what signaled the Tenth Doctor's doom.
Are we to reasonably assume that this was the Fall of the Eleventh? He certainly did fall out of the sky, and later fell to the ground, and finally fell into the rift. Metaphorically speaking, you could say this was the "fall of the Eleventh" in that we discovered he's not really the Eleventh at all. Or, as I said, "fall of the Eleventh" could be something that's going to happen to Tennant in November, since he's the secret real eleventh incarnation.
It would certainly seem that Clara asked the question, if not verbatim -- she asked "Who's that? Who is he?"
As for "on the fields of Trenzalore [...] when no living creature may speak falsely or fail to give answer", well, even if they were inside the Doctor's own head there it sure LOOKED like they were still on the fields of Trenzalore. And if they were inside the Doctor's head -- or the nexus of his timelines, or whatever the hell that was -- maybe THAT'S the reason he couldn't speak falsely or fail to answer.
Or not. We don't know if the question's been asked yet or not; we don't know if the Eleventh has fallen or not; we don't know if this was the point when no living creature could speak falsely or fail to give answer. Maybe that's what we just watched, or maybe it's still to come. As always, Moffat answers some questions but raises others.
And then there are the cracks. This episode certainly alluded to them again, and last week's had Mr. Clever noting that people could find the Doctor by looking for the holes he left. I think all that stuff's definitely related to the secret. And we still don't know what "Silence will fall" means.
Well, that was really something. I'm pretty sure I liked it, but I'm still digesting everything that happened.
The fuck are you talking about?
Episode was surprisingly low-key for a regeneration episode. Tidied up some lingering mysteries throughout Smith's run , but for the most part it was about the Doctor in one town for the entire episode. No narrative fireworks, no time travel gimmicks, [spoiler]even the large Dalek invasion at the end felt more like a means to an end than the buildup of the plot[/spoiler]. Just a more quiet capper to the arc that started in Name of the Doctor.
[spoiler]It wasn't a glorious battle; it was a massacre.[spoiler]
Sure seems like a whole lot of graves, for all that, though.[/spoiler]
Then again, the guy in the previous scene referred to a "Code Omega" with the accent on the second syllable. Regional?)
Anyway, I can't remember the second syllable stress in the previous line, but I'd bet that it was delivered by a jarhead type.
Yeah, that's actually one part of the rampant Moffat bitchery that I agree with. He writes women absolutely terribly and interchangeably. They're either plucky, sarcastic bouncy-balls, or violent dominatrix types that for some reason fawn all over a bumbling, eccentric manchild.