Brontoforumus Archive

Game Boards => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Kazz on March 07, 2009, 08:58:51 PM

Title: MTG
Post by: Kazz on March 07, 2009, 08:58:51 PM
"are games significant or not"

yes, of course.  pictures, music, and stories are all "art," but somehow throwing them together and then adding interactivity makes them insignificant?  i don't buy it.

Quote
"can one card be strictly better than an another one?"

(http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/10E/Grizzly_Bears.jpg) (http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/TSP/Ashcoat_Bear.jpg)

Same cost, both Common, one has an advantage the other doesn't.

Quote
"Is Guild a wolf"

Probably not, but it doesn't matter.

Quote
"Are you a troll or not"

Yup.
Title: MTG
Post by: yyler on March 07, 2009, 09:04:04 PM
Holy fuck, they made a better Grizzly Bears? fffff
Title: MTG
Post by: Misha on March 07, 2009, 09:09:31 PM
at this point they've made a lot of better bears
Title: MTG
Post by: Romosome on March 07, 2009, 09:12:52 PM
yeah but with the card on the left you get Grizzly BEARS

clearly that's better than some lone dumpy bear
Title: MTG
Post by: TA on March 07, 2009, 09:13:54 PM
It's still theoretically possible to have a circumstance where you'd be better off with a Grizzly Bears instead of an Ashcoat Bear, though.
Title: MTG
Post by: Koah on March 07, 2009, 09:16:32 PM
Name one.
Title: MTG
Post by: TA on March 07, 2009, 09:17:27 PM
It winds up in your opponent's hand.  Control Magic, killed, and Carrion Thrashed, or something like that.
Title: MTG
Post by: Misha on March 07, 2009, 09:18:27 PM
Your cards can never wind up in your opponent's hand. if it dies when they control it it still goes to your graveyard.


A much easier example is Muraganda Petroglyphs. Gives +2/+2 to creatures with no abilities.
Title: MTG
Post by: TA on March 07, 2009, 09:19:38 PM
Oh, did they change that?  Coulda sworn it used to be the other way, but I haven't actually played since Tempest.

That'd do it, though.
Title: MTG
Post by: Koah on March 07, 2009, 09:25:22 PM
It's still a better card, though.  Yes I know we're arguing about M:TG card shut up it's not like your hobbies are any better.
Title: MTG
Post by: yyler on March 07, 2009, 09:32:26 PM
TA you are 100% wrong, that was never a thing. Cards always went to the owners hand or graveyard; the rules were just stupidly vague (as with all early rules).

Grizzlies are only better for you if that is what your opponent is playing. But why your opponent wouldn't use Ashcoat is beyond me.

at this point they've made a lot of better bears
terrifying
Title: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 07, 2009, 09:34:59 PM
I HAVE PLAYED MAGIC FOR THE BETTER PART OF TWO DECADES NOW.

PLEASE STOP.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.
Title: MTG
Post by: yyler on March 07, 2009, 09:35:36 PM
Guess I forgot about Wild Mongrel for a minute there. Now there is a damn good version of Grizzly Bears.

Specially when that block was out—Basking Rootwalla spam was hilarious.
Title: MTG
Post by: yyler on March 07, 2009, 09:36:46 PM
big text woo woo
yeah i played for 15 years

age 3 to 18
Title: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 07, 2009, 09:37:28 PM
I do not carry it as a badge of anything but utter shame.

Please do not EVER bring MTGSalvation here.

It's the utter antithesis of everything that makes this board good.


Title: MTG
Post by: TA on March 07, 2009, 09:39:50 PM
Well obviously Ashcoat is a much better card generally, but that's not the same as strictly better in all circumstances.  Which is the point.  And the rules define Flash saying "Flash is a static ability that functions in any zone from which you could play the card it’s on. “Flash” means “You may play this card any time you could play an instant.”"

And yeah, the rules were not well-explained back then, so it's entirely probable we simply thought that a card went to its controller's graveyard.  Or I'm confusing that part with a different game.
Title: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 07, 2009, 09:40:15 PM
AGAGAGAGAGAGAGAGAGAGAGAGAgagaShugf uiegh 8ypshtg hjdp

...

never mind.
Title: MTG
Post by: Misha on March 07, 2009, 09:40:37 PM
the real problem with ever talking about cards being better in every situation is Mindslaver
Title: MTG
Post by: yyler on March 07, 2009, 09:43:09 PM
Time Walk
Title: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 07, 2009, 09:45:44 PM
The grand old Duke of York,
He had ten thousand men.
He marched them up to the top of the hill
And he marched them down again.

And when they were up, they were up;
And when they were down, they were down.
But when they were only halfway up,
They were neither up nor down!
Title: Re: What makes a board like this thrive?
Post by: Koah on March 07, 2009, 09:53:10 PM
So how about that Ice Cauldron?

Well obviously Ashcoat is a much better card generally, but that's not the same as strictly better in all circumstances.  Which is the point.  And the rules define Flash saying "Flash is a static

:blahblahblah: Cut his mic!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 07, 2009, 10:00:12 PM
Praise the fucking lord and pass the goddamned ammunition.
Title: Re: What makes a board like this thrive?
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on March 07, 2009, 10:07:12 PM
Guys.  ::(:

"Which card is strictly better" is irrelevant.  Ashcoat is objectively better than Grizzlies are, but Grizzlies are superior if you have Muraganda Petroglyphs (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=130614).  Based on these facts, you can either accept or reject the idea that one card can be strictly superior to another--but the argument itself doesn't get anybody anywhere.  It's like wondering whether the chicken or egg came first; the likelihood that you'll get anything useful from the debate is so small as to render the entire discussion a waste of time.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on March 07, 2009, 10:46:09 PM
actually even the Magic developers disconsider special cases like the Petroglyphs and XXXX when talking about 'strictly better', because they simply don't matter 99% of the time.

see the XXXX is there because I couldn't find another card that benefits from weaker creatures
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on March 07, 2009, 10:57:23 PM
god damn it, i was wondering where that post went

it apparently was split into the gayest discussion in the history of message boards

i hate every last one of you
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on March 07, 2009, 11:03:16 PM
(http://zara.verge-rpg.com/magic/freudian.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 08, 2009, 07:59:27 AM
I think this is the third thread on Magic The Gathering. I'd say that qualifies for a sticky.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on March 08, 2009, 08:10:27 AM
The real game is played by WotC marketing.  I tap five dollars and counter your "I am no longer interested, because X set is broken." using "Here is a new card that is similar to a card in a set you liked years ago so we can pull you back in."

Slivers should be back by 2012.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 08, 2009, 08:29:53 AM
 :facepalm:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: King Klown on March 16, 2009, 04:36:44 PM
My sliver deck is cool every 8 years.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 16, 2009, 07:44:05 PM
WotC is trying to reel me back in with their "Divine vs. Demonic" decks. I'm too smart for 'em though. I plan to blow all my money on food and rent.

alsoireadarumourthattheyaregettingridofmanaburn
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on March 16, 2009, 08:39:12 PM
I think MTG at this point is all about 'So how can we fuck with the mechanics in a way that requires you be a programmer to figure out the mechanic?'

Honestly I was happy when they finally made a 'no really your turn is over' card where you empty the stack, empty mana pools, and end the turn.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 17, 2009, 03:08:47 AM
They made a thing and it works great.

The problem is that their business model is predicated on perpetual and constant change. So they keep looking for things to fuck with.

That and in the last five years or so, they have really started to impose a view of how the game 'should' be played, rather than simply making cards and seing what happens (other than testing for balance). 
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: King Klown on March 17, 2009, 04:44:47 AM
That and in the last five years or so, they have really started to impose a view of how the game 'should' be played, rather than simply making cards and seing what happens (other than testing for balance). 

I'm trying to put Ravager decks into this somewhere, mainly because they still piss me off after so many years.  :enraged:

What is the meta-game lookin' like now days? Buge mentioned something about Demonic vs Divine.  :wat:

Which sounds  :perfect:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on March 17, 2009, 06:39:15 AM
That and in the last five years or so, they have really started to impose a view of how the game 'should' be played, rather than simply making cards and seing what happens (other than testing for balance). 

It's an interesting idea, but I don't see much evidence of it--beyond a certain level of, I don't know, "land destruction is unfun, so we don't make solutions that are strong enough to base an entire deck around", or "faerie decks are getting too strong, so we're printing a dozen answers in Conflux". All of which has been going on for a long time.

Right now they're making a big push for new player acquisition and strengthening the core sets, so instead of 11th Edition we're getting "Magic 2010", with the idea that each core set is named after the first full year it'll be legal in.  Yearly core sets, too, and in addition to being black bordered, they're doing both reprints and new cards, with an emphasis on classic fantasy flavor the sets have lacked since, eh, maybe Revised.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 17, 2009, 10:25:55 AM
That and in the last five years or so, they have really started to impose a view of how the game 'should' be played, rather than simply making cards and seing what happens (other than testing for balance). 

It's an interesting idea, but I don't see much evidence of it--beyond a certain level of, I don't know, "land destruction is unfun, so we don't make solutions that are strong enough to base an entire deck around", or "faerie decks are getting too strong, so we're printing a dozen answers in Conflux". All of which has been going on for a long time.

Right now they're making a big push for new player acquisition and strengthening the core sets, so instead of 11th Edition we're getting "Magic 2010", with the idea that each core set is named after the first full year it'll be legal in.  Yearly core sets, too, and in addition to being black bordered, they're doing both reprints and new cards, with an emphasis on classic fantasy flavor the sets have lacked since, eh, maybe Revised.

I'll believe the fantasy feel when it's there. For my money the game has been too carefully manufactured for some time ever regain any real flavour like it used to have. Planeswalkers have been almost pure marketing in terms of their storyline and there's way too much 'mage-punk' or D&D anyway - and that's in the years when they don't do ANOTHER post-apocalyptic storyline. Lorwyn was a kind of ham-handed attempt to return to a 'classic fantasy' setting, but it just rang so hollow.

In the plus category, the overall quality of work in the paintings is probably at an all-time high.

But as far as manipulation of the environment, I mean subtler stuff. A good example is their "we want the game to be more about creature combat" attitude, so there's been a subtle power creep in creature strength in that time*. This is in addition to a very light reduction in instant-speed creature removal and the longstanding decine of countermagic/draw engines ("un-fun").

I could give a rat's ass about the core set, new cards or no. It's just another expansion set now, only we're expected to participate in the fiction that this is not the case.

*If you haven't noticed that, with stuff like a boatload of 4/4's-for-3-mana in Lor-Sha block, I really can't help you, but it's been going on since about Ravnica block.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on March 17, 2009, 10:58:56 AM

In the plus category, the overall quality of work in the paintings is probably at an all-time high.


That's it! We will now play with full size prints of the paintings.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 17, 2009, 01:02:27 PM
faerie decks are getting too strong,

You know, every time I see an iteration of this statement, I think back to the time my friend Diana had built a faerie deck back in Ravnica/Time Spiral and beat some sliver players quite soundly.

What is the meta-game lookin' like now days? Buge mentioned something about Demonic vs Divine. 

Frankly, I have no idea what the metagame looks like on a good day. Most of the people I play with I don't see for weeks at a time and we hardly play magic anyway. The last time I went to an organized play session was in July. I've mentioned it before, but Shards of Alara pretty much killed the game for me for introducing a "new" rarity as well as being a retread of a retread.

Divine vs. Demonic is a duel deck boxed set with a pretty obvious theme. To sweeten the pot, they're throwing in a new foil Akroma as well as a new (probably) foil Demonic Tutor.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on March 17, 2009, 01:09:32 PM
it really depends which metagame you're asking about. Standard is pretty different from legacy and extended etc.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 17, 2009, 01:10:08 PM
a new (probably) foil Demonic Tutor.

Ah yes, the 'Hilarious Rape!' demonic tutor.

FYI kids: The next expansion set is ALL MULTICOLOUR. Not hybrid either. They're screaming "GOLD!" louder than a sober fourty-niner. HEY LET'S SEE HOW LAME WE CAN GOOOOOOOOOOOO!

What kind of tricks they're going to use to have 1cc spells or mana fixing is a total fucking mystery as of this time.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on March 17, 2009, 01:15:32 PM
the first two sets in the block have a large pile of manafixing at common and uncommon, so for limited I'm sure it'll be fine.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 17, 2009, 01:31:36 PM
That's fairly normal for MTG. Stick the most highly-experimental mechanics/gimmicks (see also: Storm, Epic, "future-shifted") in the third set of a block.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 08, 2009, 09:14:18 AM
You may or may not have heard that the name of the next block (not the next set) is ZENDIKAR. No real information has come to light on the set, so based merely on the name and one or two extremely fragmentary bits of info, the MTG playing retard community has offered the following guesses as to the Zendikar's nature.

- Dinosaurs/prehistoric block
- Aztec/Mayan block
- Pirate block
- Indiana Jones-like treasure hunter block

And of course.

- Treasure-hunting aztec dinosaur pirates block.

It occured to me that no matter what they make, it could not possibly be as awesome as a block that contained mesoamerican dinosaur pirates.

 :sadpanda:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on April 08, 2009, 09:55:00 AM
Me: How about we go back to Dominara.  Please?

WOTC: No.  Urza is DEAD.  Get over it.  Have more slivers instead.

Me: You suck, WOTC.

WOTC: There's a sliver pirate and a sliver dinosaur.

Me: ... ... ... Let me get my wallet.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Niku on April 08, 2009, 10:15:21 AM
Sliversaurus

When Sliversaurus comes into play, all other Silvers become Sliversauruses.  With their dominion of the prehistoric realms completely unchecked, you and your opponent cease to exist in this new and terrifying timeline.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 09, 2009, 06:12:42 AM
- Treasure-hunting aztec dinosaur pirates block.


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/buge/zen-dik-arrh.jpg)
ZEN-DIK-ARRH                                                                 ZEN-DIK-ARRH
                                ZEN-DIK-ARRH
               ZEN-DIK-ARRH
                                                                ZEN-DIK-ARRH

ZEN-DIK-ARRH
ZEN-DIK-ARRH
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 26, 2009, 09:29:07 AM
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x41/Ravarshi/MTGO%20Avatars/DSC01870.jpg)

Okay, I didn't think they could get any less shameless, but hey, wrong-o!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: yyler on April 26, 2009, 09:30:45 AM
I think her boobs are falling off
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ted Belmont on April 26, 2009, 12:41:09 PM
She didn't pay their echo cost
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on April 26, 2009, 01:49:06 PM
they're strengthening their core

with boobs
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 26, 2009, 03:54:59 PM
More like their core is getting harder. Hur hur hur.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: King Klown on April 26, 2009, 04:38:34 PM
No wonder young boys love this game.   :rori:

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on April 26, 2009, 05:19:02 PM
This is an affront to the traditional values of Magic the...

(http://www.evocacion.com/magic-the-gathering/beta/img/earthbind.jpg)

Right.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: King Klown on April 26, 2009, 05:24:36 PM
So that's where that fetish developed from.  :ohshi~:

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 26, 2009, 05:38:54 PM
The funny part is that I actually cracked to someone else earlier today "Actually, it isn't all that out of place for the oldest sets."

Like many other things marketed to males, MTG has always had pr0n. What kills me is how they dropped all pretense of MTG in that shot. Like, that really just looks like a shot from a White Wolf book, showing a minor goth chick mage.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 28, 2009, 04:16:06 PM
No, you know what the funny part is? Quint Hoover did the artwork for the "Proposal" card.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 28, 2009, 06:27:30 PM
No, you know what the funny part is? Quint Hoover did the artwork for the "Proposal" card.

(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd145/Brentai/ohburn.gif)  :perfect:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on April 29, 2009, 06:15:50 AM
So the new set is 'Alara Reborn' and apparently EVERY card is gold-bordered (more than one color)?  I seem to recall they tried this ages ago only they called it LEGENDS.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on April 29, 2009, 06:18:07 AM
Nothin' wrong with that.  One of the funner decks I ever played was a white/green/black Invasion cycle thingy where every non-land was Gold.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on April 29, 2009, 06:26:32 AM
I'm just waving the old-fart cane around.  I played from Tempest to Mirrodin.  Invasion was the best set for seriously fun sealed deck events.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on April 29, 2009, 06:55:29 AM
the key difference between alara reborn and legends is that alara reborn isn't full of shitty cards
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on April 29, 2009, 07:00:18 AM
So the new set is 'Alara Reborn' and apparently EVERY card is gold-bordered (more than one color)?  I seem to recall they tried this ages ago only they called it LEGENDS.

I would believe this except every third Legends card I encountered was unfailingly Bog Rats (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=1731).

Seriously, though, I kind of like Alara Reborn (http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/alarareborn/spoiler).  People keep shouting "power creep" but it seems to me they're just putting power into places it should be but hasn't been up to now.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on April 29, 2009, 07:04:59 AM
The cosmic horror that is the WOTC marketing department will always find a way to keep the game interesting to at least 80%* of the Type 2 players salivating with each block.  Since they keep making sets illegal a handful of years down the line, they can keep retooling old ideas and make them seem new again. (Slivers in 2010!  Come on!)

*Totally not scientific number based on my register experience of 1 in 5 players saying 'This new set sucks, I quit!'
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 29, 2009, 07:15:19 AM
I would believe this except every third Legends card I encountered was unfailingly Bog Rats (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=1731).

Legends

Bog Rats

 :facepalm:

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on April 29, 2009, 08:05:54 AM
Oh, hey, wow.  I forgot my first gold cards were from The Dark, not Legends.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 29, 2009, 10:00:20 AM
the key difference between alara reborn and legends is that alara reborn isn't full of shitty cards

Matter of opinion there, son.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kashan on April 29, 2009, 10:23:25 AM
the key difference between alara reborn and legends is that alara reborn isn't full of shitty cards

Matter of opinion there, son.

No, everything gold in legends sucked, and that's pretty much a fact. Was there even one good gold card from that set?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on April 29, 2009, 10:39:47 AM
(http://www.findmagiccards.com/GF/USC/MTGC/LG/GWEZRCI1.jpeg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on April 29, 2009, 10:40:48 AM
While not necessarily a good card, Nicol Bolas was fun as hell to play. (Yes, I am aware of the new one.)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Cyan Prime on April 29, 2009, 10:45:19 AM
Zombie Bidding is the greatest deck ever.  :perfect: :perfect:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 29, 2009, 10:50:09 AM
the key difference between alara reborn and legends is that alara reborn isn't full of shitty cards

Matter of opinion there, son.

No, everything gold in legends sucked, and that's pretty much a fact. Was there even one good gold card from that set?

opinion


Also, the other side of that coin was: Who says Alara Reborn is full of a good cards? On the whole, it's a fairly weak set for the modern era.

EDIT: Thank you Zara.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 29, 2009, 11:15:16 AM
Goblin Bidding is the greatest deck ever.  :perfect: :perfect:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/buge/wolverine_punches_cyclops.gif)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on April 29, 2009, 11:24:48 AM
MTG only has 13 kinds of bear, according to gatherer (Get out of my search flagBEARers)

We have apparently many many more kinds of real bears (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear#Classification).

Dammit man!  MAKE MORE BEARS!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: François on April 29, 2009, 11:41:20 AM
While not necessarily a good card, Nicol Bolas was fun as hell to play. (Yes, I am aware of the new one.)

Nicol Bolas + Flame Whip = tap to make opponent discard his entire hand (also he takes 1 damage)
::D:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 29, 2009, 12:17:45 PM
Give the whip to a Shocker and you can keep doing it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on April 29, 2009, 12:32:40 PM
Nicol Bolas + Megrim = Good

Dragon Mage + Megrim + Underworld Dreams =  :lol:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 29, 2009, 12:52:30 PM
Give the whip to a Shocker and you can keep doing it.

Not to mention that the jokes were always a lot funnier with that particular combo.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: yyler on April 29, 2009, 01:00:02 PM
Do any of you guys use Magic Workstation? I don't really know anything about the cards past Mirrodin or so (not entirely sure where I stopped paying attention) but if you want we can play and I'll get my ass handed to me or something.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kashan on April 29, 2009, 01:05:30 PM
the key difference between alara reborn and legends is that alara reborn isn't full of shitty cards

Matter of opinion there, son.

No, everything gold in legends sucked, and that's pretty much a fact. Was there even one good gold card from that set?

opinion


Also, the other side of that coin was: Who says Alara Reborn is full of a good cards? On the whole, it's a fairly weak set for the modern era.

EDIT: Thank you Zara.

If what you mean by good is "has an awesome name or awesome art" then you would be right that it's a matter of opinion.. Ramses Overdark and Tuknir Deathlock are pretty awesome names. If what you mean by good is "something that could might be played in a deck that is designed to win." then no, it's not a matter of opinion. The power of a card is objective, it may vary by environment, but it's objective. I just looked over all the gold cards from legends and Nebuchadnezzer, Rasputin Dreamweaver, Rubinia Soulsinger, and Gwendlyn Di Cordi are the only gold cards from that set that weren't straight up horrible, and none of them were ever actually good. There were some good single color cards in legends, but not gold cards.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on April 29, 2009, 01:25:13 PM
I pretty much disregard any art prior to Tempest, when it became less REALLY BLAND FLAT COLORS, SHAPES, CONCEPTS, AND PEOPLE and more epic paintings of guys with swords vs. generic fantasy monster a, b, and/or c.

Burrowing a flying ship through a moon full of mana as a super-weapon?  Sign me up Legacy Weapon (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=26424), you are neat in my book.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 29, 2009, 01:50:50 PM
the key difference between alara reborn and legends is that alara reborn isn't full of shitty cards

Matter of opinion there, son.

No, everything gold in legends sucked, and that's pretty much a fact. Was there even one good gold card from that set?

opinion


Also, the other side of that coin was: Who says Alara Reborn is full of a good cards? On the whole, it's a fairly weak set for the modern era.

EDIT: Thank you Zara.

If what you mean by good is "has an awesome name or awesome art" then you would be right that it's a matter of opinion.. Ramses Overdark and Tuknir Deathlock are pretty awesome names. If what you mean by good is "something that could might be played in a deck that is designed to win." then no, it's not a matter of opinion. The power of a card is objective, it may vary by environment, but it's objective. I just looked over all the gold cards from legends and Nebuchadnezzer, Rasputin Dreamweaver, Rubinia Soulsinger, and Gwendlyn Di Cordi are the only gold cards from that set that weren't straight up horrible, and none of them were ever actually good. There were some good single color cards in legends, but not gold cards.

Well, you'll note that although we were talking about Alara Reborn, Dreth didn't bother to make the distinction between gold and monocoloured cards. And yeah, I think that the flavour of Legends was pretty damned awesome. All those funy Legends with Richard Kane Ferguson art, oh man. Finally, power levels in 1993 and power levels in 2009 are not directly comparable. More than a few of those gold cards were solidly playable for a while.

...

Man, what the hell? People gotta go and argue with me even when I state straight out that I am saying something that is pure opinion?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kashan on April 29, 2009, 02:24:29 PM
I took the conversation to be about gold cards since there was the previous dicussion of all the cards in Alara Reborn being gold, my mistake. And while you're right that powerlevels in 1993 and 2009 are different, it still wouldn't be correct to say there were any good gold cards from legends, even by the power levels of the time. Creatures mostly sucked back then, and they hadn't figured out how to price gold cards yet. Look at the decks in the finals of the 94 gencon. Very few creatures, most of which wouldn't be anything special by today's standards, lots of spells that would be considered way way too powerful by today's standards, lots of free mana which is broken by today's standards, and no gold cards. Really the game may have been more busted back then, just less combo intensive and creatures sucked more.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 29, 2009, 04:31:11 PM
Oh, don't get me wrong. Plenty of the gold cards in Legends were complete ass, even by the standards of the time. But some of them were good, and the set as a whole broke a hell of a lot of new ground. In spite of everything else, the set lived up to it's name.

Back then the game was really in a long and wild experimental stage right up until maybe Mirage-Visions, which were the first sets that really began to resemble modern sets in any meaningful way.

Also, the game as a whole today is much more creature-intensive because about 5 years ago, Wizards made a very very deliberate decision that they wanted creature combat to be a bigger part of the game. As a result, we began to see deliberately engineered power creep on creatures.

I don't mind too much, but I think we've gone a bit too far. I think Magic still has a place for strong non-creature spells that cost < 4 mana and that the game should not be ALL about creature combat, but oh well, I'm not the R&D dept.

Sixteen years of my life wasted on this silly hobby. OH GOD WHY.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 29, 2009, 06:35:01 PM
Oh, don't get me wrong. Plenty of the gold cards in Legends were complete ass, even by the standards of the time. But some of them were good, and the set as a whole broke a hell of a lot of new ground. In spite of everything else, the set lived up to it's name.

Back then the game was really in a long and wild experimental stage right up until maybe Mirage-Visions, which were the first sets that really began to resemble modern sets in any meaningful way.

Looking through the encyclopedia, I can see about 80% of the rares in Legends were awful. Adventurer's Guildhouse? Mold Demon? Spinal Villain? Yuck. I always though it was tragic that awful cards got nice pictures, though.

Also, the game as a whole today is much more creature-intensive because about 5 years ago, Wizards made a very very deliberate decision that they wanted creature combat to be a bigger part of the game. As a result, we began to see deliberately engineered power creep on creatures.

That was Onslaught, wasn't it? You know, I was out of the game at the time, but from what I can tell, it was a popular experiment across the board. It also seemed to be a way to pull in the Yu-Gi-Oh crowd (big, simple critters, facedown cards). I've also heard that it was a fairly frustrating time for people who liked to make weird, experimental decks.

I don't mind too much, but I think we've gone a bit too far. I think Magic still has a place for strong non-creature spells that cost < 4 mana and that the game should not be ALL about creature combat, but oh well, I'm not the R&D dept.

Yeah, R&D likes to bandy about terms like "design space" and "interactivity." Apparently, interactivity means turning creatures sideways. It's also why we haven't had an efficient counterspell since counterspell. I think they're afraid of making the next Skullclamp or Tinker.

Strange. The mentality seems to be that getting the crap kicked out of you by a table full of goblins is somehow better than getting decked by a millstone.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kashan on April 29, 2009, 07:14:31 PM
Strange. The mentality seems to be that getting the crap kicked out of you by a table full of goblins is somehow better than getting decked by a millstone.

For some retarded reason it is for most people. For some reason most players hate control and hate combo. And it's not just Magic. L5R has had an entire arc of boring straightforward military decks and the player base is loving it. They did this because they scared half the player base away with a really control intensive arc. Magic is pretty good about striking a balance. Even when control is on the low end it's still there. As somebody who likes weird decks and combo/control decks this arc has been rough on me in l5r.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 29, 2009, 07:40:21 PM
I always though it was tragic that awful cards got nice pictures, though.

This will probably be true forever.

-----------

It was more Ravnica that saw true power creep for creatures (see Watchwolf, Rumbling Slum and others as the beginnings of modern power creep in creatures). Onslaught block did have lots of creatures (including the gimmick set Legions), but most of those were not above the power curve. The ones that saw play (and lasted) were tricky or interesting ones, like Siege Gang Commander.

Also, I agree that they've been gun shy for years now. For maybe the first five-seven years, they did try to avoid making busted stuff, but weren't so... afraid. But they were really burned by their biggest mistakes, first in Urza block and then in Mirrodin block. R&D really hasn't been the same since. They've been kind of shell-shocked. One of the advantages of pushing more creature-based strategies is that they have fewer broken interactions. The problem is that they are very very close to going too far and an overall level of power creep across an entire card type is much, much harder to undo than a few nutty broken combo cards.

I've never seen so many goddamn timmy-fatties as have been in the last two or three blocks. Especially Alara block. Holy Christ, enough with the 6-8 casting cost behemoths.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on May 29, 2009, 10:23:53 PM
I am going to say "I put [card] onto the battlefield!" as much as possible if it means giving the established player base aneurysms. People are having such paroxysms over this; it's just ridiculous.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on May 30, 2009, 12:33:06 AM
Quote
Strange. The mentality seems to be that getting the crap kicked out of you by a table full of goblins is somehow better than getting decked by a millstone.

Getting killed by a table full of goblins takes 6-10 turns. Getting killed by a millstone takes 20+, while you can't do anything because you are locked down. That is why the mentality is the way it is.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Brentai on May 30, 2009, 12:58:57 AM
Bonk!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: on May 30, 2009, 01:11:16 AM
I once played Blessed Wind against a guy who's deck was designed to give him ungodly amounts of life (5-6 digits), even if you blew away the combo cards. Which he had done. And then I killed him with direct damage.

FOR THOSE THAT DON'T REMEMBER PROPHECY: Blessed Wind sets the life total of target player at 20. Literally, the text is "Target PLayer's life total becomes 20"
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on May 30, 2009, 04:05:30 AM
Nvm I was thinking of grind stone.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 30, 2009, 04:46:35 AM
Yeah, the battlefield thing is pretty dumb, but that is MILES AND MILES away from being the dumbest thing WotC has ever done with MTG.

I just hear 'battlefield' in my mind's ear being said with the same kind of voice as "I cast a spell!"
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on May 30, 2009, 05:18:08 AM
I don't understand.  What's up with "battlefield", now?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 30, 2009, 06:57:30 AM
WotC is trying to return 'flavour' to the game, in their hamfisted corporate way.

Spells are once again 'cast' as opposed to being 'played'. This was actually a good move. It was an old term that was flavourful and clear and demonstrated the distinction between stuff that was 'in play' and being 'played'. Unfortunately, they decided to take this one step further and are renaming the 'in play' zone 'the battlefield'. They're also renaming the removed-from-the-game zone, but no one knows what asinine name is going to be applied to that.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 30, 2009, 08:17:47 AM
WotC must hate money.

How are they reconciling stuff like this, then?

(https://www.coolstuffinc.com/images/Products/mtg%20art/Tempest/Recycle.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on May 30, 2009, 09:55:30 AM
now we have to play with Portal Three Kingdoms cards

because

(http://www.coolstuffinc.com/images/Products/mtg%20art/Promo/Lu%20Bu,%20Master-at-Arms.jpg)

LU BU HAS ENTERED THE BATTLEFIELD.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Koah on May 30, 2009, 10:03:19 AM
now we have to play with Portal Three Kingdoms cards

because

(http://www.coolstuffinc.com/images/Products/mtg%20art/Promo/Lu%20Bu,%20Master-at-Arms.jpg)

LU BU HAS ENTERED THE BATTLEFIELD.

Lu Bu is a squirrel?

...

Oh shit, the secret behind Squirrel Girl's defeats of Dr. Doom and Thanos is revealed!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: King Klown on May 30, 2009, 10:06:29 AM
Wait, with their renaming of shit, is 'On the stack' and still the same term?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 30, 2009, 10:46:31 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on May 30, 2009, 06:16:47 PM
what? Oh, hell, I see it now too.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on May 30, 2009, 08:43:33 PM
They're also renaming the removed-from-the-game zone, but no one knows what asinine name is going to be applied to that.

Seems like I recall somebody claiming insider knowledge announced it was "exile".  So Swords to Plowshares would read "Exile target creature. That creature's controller gains life equal to its power".
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 30, 2009, 08:45:17 PM
I don't know about that... another supposedly "inside source" claimed it would be called the void.

Basically, nothing's confirmed yet.

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 24, 2009, 07:36:31 AM
So the Zendikar prerelease is saturday and as of this morning the set's been fully spoiled (nothing unusual about any of that of course).

So in the end it turned out that Zendikar is 'World of Greyhawk: The MTG set', only even dumber than that sounds.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on September 24, 2009, 08:14:31 AM
Yay zendikar, yaaaay (http://mtgsalvation.com/zendikar-spoiler.html)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 24, 2009, 11:23:35 AM
So they're not really being subtle about lifting from Yu-gi-oh anymore.

(http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/tcg/products/zendikar/9tubkd05ti_EN.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on September 24, 2009, 11:39:29 AM
OH NO!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on September 24, 2009, 11:45:11 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLTqGkUGCzE
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Lady Duke on September 24, 2009, 12:42:12 PM
Fuck everyone going to that release.  Fuck you all sideways.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 25, 2009, 03:14:18 AM
So uh...

It's been confirmed that Wizards has randomly inserted old card stock they had in storage into Zendikar packs. These are not reprints, just old cards they still had copies of.

Why is the fact that they are not reprints important? Well, that's because the fact that these are not technically reprints is how they are getting around the 'Reserve List', which is a long list of expensive cards they made many years ago that they promised they would never reprint as sort of an unofficial contract between the themselves and the secondary market (i.e. card shops & dealers) to prevent them from wanting to hang WotC by their entrails.

Why do they need to play such hairsplitting games just to reprint older cards?

Because they're putting shit like original dual lands, Ancestral Recall, Black Lotus and the like in Zendikar boosters. The chances of pulling one of these cards at random is said to be quite rare, perhaps one per case or worse, with a value of anywhere from $40 to... possibly $10000 if they put any beta cards in?

It's official. I'm not playing a game anymore, I'm playing a lottery. Or Yu-Gi-Oh. Or both.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kashan on September 25, 2009, 04:14:56 AM
So uh...

It's been confirmed that Wizards has randomly inserted old card stock they had in storage. These are not reprints, just old cards they still had copies of.

Why is the fact that they are not reprints important? Well, that's because the fact that these are not technically reprints is how they are getting around the 'Reserve List', which is a long list of expensive cards they made many years ago that they promised they would never reprint as sort of an unofficial contract between the themselves and the secondary market (i.e. card shops & dealers) to prevent them from wanting to hang WotC by their entrails.

Why do they need to play such hairsplitting games just to reprint older cards?

Because they're putting shit like original dual lands, Ancestral Recall, Black Lotus and the like in Zendikar boosters. The chances of pulling one of these cards at random is said to be quite rare, perhaps one per case or worse, with a value of anywhere from $40 to... possibly $10000 if they put any beta cards in?

It's official. I'm not playing a game anymore, I'm playing a lottery. Or Yu-Gi-Oh. Or both.

Whatever, fuck the secondary market. It might be nice if type 1 was more than the same 200 players playing for all of eternity.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on September 25, 2009, 06:26:01 AM
Heheheh.

If that's true (it sounds like rumor mill garbage to me), I love Wizards.  They know how to sell boxes.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 25, 2009, 06:49:56 AM
Well, overall I'm sorta-neutral on the issue.

I own all the cards required for Type 1 and have for years. I actually think that making older cards available to newer players is fine and that the quantities that are coming out in this set are small enough that they won't really affect the prices of any of the older cards much if at all. If we just consider Zendikar on its own and ignore everything else, this is definitely a net gain for players and a win-win situation for everyone.

On the other hand, not all is well here. First we had bigger and bigger set sizes, but that burned folks out fast, so they reduced set sizes. Then we also had an increase in the number of sets per year, people burned out on that too and they said they'd stop, but then they decided to put new cards in the Core Set, making it a de facto fourth expansion set, rather than the starting point for new players it was intended to be. Then there's been the more recent deluge of promo decks (X vs Y decks, From The vault box sets, etc.) to try and milk the game’s idle rich, and of course, the introduction of Mythic rares. Hell they even “reprinted” Mana Drain (for Magic Online), something they once said would only happen if a bus ran over R&D. Now we have the ultimate expression of all this: random Black Lotuses in packs.

In spite of it all, the average 'lifespan' of MTG players has greatly decreased over the years rather than increased (with burnout being a factor acknowledged by even Wizards themselves) and as a result we've stated to fall into a vicious cycle where recent sets have really favoured newer players with dumbed-down cards and the removal of a *LOT* of the 'less fun' strategies (i.e. too complicated or disciplined for a 13 year old). They've pushed some awful blocks recently, with just a few 'marquee cards' scattered throughout to sell the set to experienced players. Unfortunately if they're just trying to make Type 2 slower or simpler, it's not working because the few 'good' cards they've been printing as exceptions have basically dominated the very narrow field that remains (for a great example, see the last two years of Type two being dominated by Faerie decks, mostly on the back of two cards: Bitterblossom and Cryptic Command). So instead we get a bland and anemic Type 2 metagame.

So far Zendikar has been panned, continuing the trend. Allies are a boring failure, and most of the Trap cards (which actually have nothing to do with YuGiOh's trap cards) and Quests have impractical triggers conditions. This set is loaded with cards that can all-too-easily wind up as a frustratingly dead draw in a real game. If the new Wrath of God and enemy-coloured fetchlands (which have pretty much nothing to do with Zendikar) are removed from the equation, then the set pretty much comprises broken Lotus Cobra, maybe a half-dozen rares playable in anything outside of Type 2, and a pile of dog shit. Now, the usual retards are screaming "CASH GRAB!!!!" as they do when Wizards does... anything, but for a change, I’m finding it more and more difficult to disagree.

Let's say this is a "cash grab", well what of it? Why does a company flog what you might call "irreplaceable capital"? There are a number of reasons. Some are harmless but some reek of desperation. Perhaps if any of the last couple of sets had been better, I'd have less misgivings, but Wizards seems intent on pursuing inherently short-term strategies, while letting basic card design suffer. Worse yet, no one knows if these short-term strategies are sustainable or whether we're just trapped in a vicious cycle. There is some serious grumbling from players about the cost of ALL formats (not just the older stuff).

I know I'm posting a giant word train, so the simplest way I can sum it up is: In the last several years, card design has started to take a backseat to financial considerations that are having a direct impact on newer sets. I’m not stupid, financial concerns were always important and have affected design in a number of ways over the years, but they are now starting to override the basic playable qualities of the game.

I know as someone who’s played for 16 years, my demographic is vanishingly small, so I’d never blame Wizards for not catering to me, but I don’t want them to self-immolate, dammit!

****

As for Kashan’s exact comment, I can't really agree. Wizards could do a lot more to support real Type 1 play by sanctioning Type 1 events that allow proxies, rather than play with this crackhead lottery nonsense. Also, Wizards is much more comfortable with supporting Legacy (the overhauled Type 1.5) as it's preferred 'eternal/vintage' format, since they view it as a much more balanced environment (which is a pretty fair view).

And saying 'fuck the secondary market' is easy if you're a player with no Type 1 cards, but not so easy if you're a major dealer who invested in powerful Type 1 staples to provide legtimacy to a growing business. The reason the Reserve List was created in the first place was not because Wizards really had an issue with the cards on the list (though they did with some of them), but because it acted as a sort of treaty, or agreement with the dealer and shop network not to randomly fuck them over. The practical effects of these "not-reprints" will be small, but it will cause an erosion in the cooperation between Wizards and their own dealer network. Whether this breakdown in relations will be worth the cash boost remains to be seen.

The important thing here is that the relationship between Wizards and its dealer network should be more important than its relationship with the relatively small base of Type 1 players.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on September 25, 2009, 06:56:30 AM
How about a new, like, Type 1.75, where only cards from 2001 on are allowed.

i could do ok in that.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 25, 2009, 07:04:38 AM
How about a new, like, Type 1.75, where only cards from 2001 on are allowed.

i could do ok in that.

Extended format kind of fits that. Extended is basically the long version of Type 2, with the last five or six years worth of sets being legal. I forget exactly how many years it is, but as of Zendikar's release, Onslaught block rotates out of Extended, making the oldest Extended-legal block Mirrodin block. The oldest block in Extended rotates out every year, just like Type 2 (this is a more recent change. Extended used to rotate out in 3-year chunks).

Conveniently, Extended is the 2nd most heavily played tournament format after Type 2 (or 'Standard' as it's called by the kids).

EDIT: Hmmm...

Extended-legal sets as of next friday:

Mirrodin block
Kamigawa Weeaboo block
Ravnica block
Time Spiral block
Lorwyn/Shadowmoor block (two-set block, MY ASS)
Alara block
Zendikar

So, technically 6+ years?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 25, 2009, 07:52:13 AM
M11: Enchantment cards are discontinued under the notion that they are redundant and replaced with coloured artifacts.

M12: After a disastrous Pro-Tour event, all blue cards are put on the Restricted list.

M13: The one-land-per-turn rule is rescinded. Designers claim it makes the game "too slow."

M14: The Hasbro-Disney/Marvel merger sees the first proprietary cards printed. Donaldpool decks sweep the tournament scene.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 25, 2009, 08:27:24 AM
M12: After a disastrous Pro-Tour event, all blue cards are put on the Restricted list.

Isn't this what's already happened? Repeatedly? 

Ignoring Wizards current attempts to do their damnedest to gut blue...
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Classic on September 25, 2009, 09:03:17 AM
Hasn't blue being a bit too powerful been a problem since before the first printing?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 25, 2009, 10:25:10 AM
Hasn't blue being a bit too powerful been a problem since before the first printing?

Well, for the past year and a half (arguably two and a half years), Wizards has rather brutally and blatantly cut down on Blue's power levels. Way out of league with any problems it might be causing. Blue being overpowered has been a joke for far longer than its been a fact (the last time Blue actually had an unfair advantage was during Urza's Saga block... over a decade ago).

I don't have a problem with this if it's temporary (Wizards has this odd idea that there always needs to be a colour on the 'outs'), but the thought of never seeing a decently useful counterspell or instant-speed draw spell ever again is kind of depressing.

I don't think most folks are asking for Force of Will or Ancestral Recall to be reprinted (oh wait Wizards IS "reprinting" Ancestral! LOLZORZ!), I just want something like Mana Leak or Brainstorm... or something else that's cool and different.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on September 26, 2009, 09:19:00 AM
Well, for the past year and a half (arguably two and a half years), Wizards has rather brutally and blatantly cut down on Blue's power levels. Way out of league with any problems it might be causing. Blue being overpowered has been a joke for far longer than its been a fact (the last time Blue actually had an unfair advantage was during Urza's Saga block... over a decade ago).

Not sure I agree with this. Certainly, that's how long Cancel has been ubiquitous, and some people would take that as proof that Wizards wants to give blue the shaft. I think it's more complicated than that.

First, broken blue spells become more format-defining that broken spells of other colors. Other colors will have their overpowered creatures now and again, but the handy thing about creatures is that they generally die to removal. Tarmogoyf may have left a big impression when it was Standard-legal, but pretty much every deck and color had a way of dealing with it; it was just a question of whether those answers arrived soon enough to matter. Blue's bomb spells are usually instants, and while black or white might have disruption or other preventive measures in place, the best way to answer Force of Will is with a Force of Will of your own. Even broken enchantments aren't as bad, since you can at least get answers in green OR white.

Then there's the issue of archetypes. Most colors and maybe half the color combinations can come up with a reasonably successful aggro deck. Has there been a successful control deck in Standard that didn't involve blue since Time Spiral? I think Wizards has been trying to deemphasize blue's controlling aspects for a while to let other colors get involved in control--but blue wasn't going to leave the picture as long as Lorwyn was still in rotation. Meanwhile, though, blue's been getting pushed in other directions: mill as a combo (Time Sieve/Jace) or aggro (Sanity Grinding) strategy has never been as strong as it has been for the past few months, and merfolk had some success as an aggressor there for a while.

So really, I don't think WotC is punishing blue so much as it's trying to shift blue's identity, if only for a while. I think the strength of fairies really burned a lot of people. Bitterblossom and Cryptic Command were the obvious villains, yes, but since most of the relevant creatures had flash, the deck got to enjoy the board position of an aggro deck while playing like control. It was obscene, and it wouldn't surprise me if cascade was just as much a response as Great Sable Stag was.

Blue will get back to its old familiar tricks; Lightning Bolt's return is proof. It's just a question of when.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on September 26, 2009, 09:37:00 AM
Quote
Lightning Bolt's return is proof.

Wait. They reprinted lightning bolt?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 26, 2009, 09:46:21 AM
Well, for the past year and a half (arguably two and a half years), Wizards has rather brutally and blatantly cut down on Blue's power levels. Way out of league with any problems it might be causing. Blue being overpowered has been a joke for far longer than its been a fact (the last time Blue actually had an unfair advantage was during Urza's Saga block... over a decade ago).

Not sure I agree with this. Certainly, that's how long Cancel has been ubiquitous, and some people would take that as proof that Wizards wants to give blue the shaft. I think it's more complicated than that.

First, broken blue spells become more format-defining that broken spells of other colors. Other colors will have their overpowered creatures now and again, but the handy thing about creatures is that they generally die to removal. Tarmogoyf may have left a big impression when it was Standard-legal, but pretty much every deck and color had a way of dealing with it; it was just a question of whether those answers arrived soon enough to matter. Blue's bomb spells are usually instants, and while black or white might have disruption or other preventive measures in place, the best way to answer Force of Will is with a Force of Will of your own. Even broken enchantments aren't as bad, since you can at least get answers in green OR white.

Then there's the issue of archetypes. Most colors and maybe half the color combinations can come up with a reasonably successful aggro deck. Has there been a successful control deck in Standard that didn't involve blue since Time Spiral? I think Wizards has been trying to deemphasize blue's controlling aspects for a while to let other colors get involved in control--but blue wasn't going to leave the picture as long as Lorwyn was still in rotation. Meanwhile, though, blue's been getting pushed in other directions: mill as a combo (Time Sieve/Jace) or aggro (Sanity Grinding) strategy has never been as strong as it has been for the past few months, and merfolk had some success as an aggressor there for a while.

So really, I don't think WotC is punishing blue so much as it's trying to shift blue's identity, if only for a while. I think the strength of fairies really burned a lot of people. Bitterblossom and Cryptic Command were the obvious villains, yes, but since most of the relevant creatures had flash, the deck got to enjoy the board position of an aggro deck while playing like control. It was obscene, and it wouldn't surprise me if cascade was just as much a response as Great Sable Stag was.

Blue will get back to its old familiar tricks; Lightning Bolt's return is proof. It's just a question of when.

I agree for the most part, but I'm one of those players who would be perfectly happy with Mana Leak and an instand-speed draw spell of some kind.

A special note about Cancel: Cancel is amusing because there is a critical gameplay threshold between two and three mana. The ability to stop a spell at two means, you'll be in good shape to do something else besides hanging on and waiting on your opponent's action. Three not so much (this is also why Time Walk is so insane, but Time Warp is quite fair).

Wizards just keeps pringting Cancel as if they think that if they just shove it in people's faces enough, they can dictate that the card will be played. But that won't happen. Not because it's bad, but because it's just not good enough.

The mild denial involved in the whole thing is a bit silly.

Quote
Lightning Bolt's return is proof.

Wait. They reprinted lightning bolt?

Yep. 

***

In other news, somene did a little research. Apparently, MTG is doing quite decently, even though Alara block sales were lower than average (bad set + recession = ...). Apparently MTG is still profitable enough that they are directly shoring up Hasbro's revenue, thouh Hasbro is far from desperate itself and still continues to post revenues in the black.

So that throws out any desperation argument. I do wish set design hadn't been such crap lately though.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on September 26, 2009, 10:53:37 AM
Relatively successful two-mana counters since Ravnica:
-Remand
-(Counterbalance)
-Rune Snag
-Delay
-Spellstutter Sprite
-Negate

There may also be promise in Countersquall now that Bloodchief Ascension (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=197892) exists.

I think the reason Cancel can't succeed is because better alternatives have always been available. There might be room for it in limited, I guess; the fact that Wizards designs for four different environments simultaneously probably causes more bad design than anything.

As far as the "priceless treasures" are concerned, don't forget the decision to include them was probably made before it was apparent whether Alara would return on its investment and M10 would do so well.

Let's suppose for a moment that this fresh influx of extremely hard-to-get cards draws enough attention and interest in older formats and high-value cards that prices actually wind up going up, and after all is said and done it becomes apparent that the existence of the Reserve List limits the profitability of both collectors AND WotC. What would have to happen for the Reserve List to be overturned?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 26, 2009, 03:01:04 PM
Relatively successful two-mana counters since Ravnica:
-Remand
-(Counterbalance)
-Rune Snag
-Delay
-Spellstutter Sprite
-Negate

There may also be promise in Countersquall now that Bloodchief Ascension (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=197892) exists.

I think the reason Cancel can't succeed is because better alternatives have always been available.


See, I have to disagree on that. It can't succeed because it is just too slow. And the increase in the quality of creatures since Rav block make it slower still. Counterspell woudl be more than fair in today's environment as long as only one strong counterspell is in Standard at any one time.

I would agree that you can't have two strong counters without seriously making people sour. But you could reprint Counterspell, Mana Leak, Undermine, Absorb, or something similar with zero effect on the eternal formats.

Quote
There might be room for it in limited,


Oh definitely. But even in limited it's only a solid middle pick. That it's not even highly valued in limited shoudl tell you something (I am awful, but draft with some very good folks, including the 2008 Canadian Nationals champion).

Quote
I guess; the fact that Wizards designs for four different environments simultaneously probably causes more bad design than anything.


This is assumed by a lot of folks, but it isn't as hard as it looks (not that I'm saying "DUR HUR HUR THIS R EAAASY"). Basically, in order of priority, Wizards designs for the following: Standard -> Limited -> Extended -> Legacy/Type 1

With the caveat that no cards will be printed that break ANY format, no matter how harless they are in the other three.

True, they've recently been implementing this by making safely underpowered or narrow cards, but that's still a workable strategy.

Quote
What would have to happen for the Reserve List to be overturned?

A lot of people have asked that question. Nobody knows. The suspicion is that THAT is what would be a true signal of financial desperation on Wizards part. This Zendikar promotion is comparitively harmless.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on September 27, 2009, 06:39:48 PM
god, quit whining about blue. (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=178144)

some zendikar prerelease notes:

i used this (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=198524) to get a life-total of 1,878 in the last round of a zendikar draft.

the best common i've seen so far is this (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=178145).  with ally and landfall effects, its ability is not a disadvantage in any way, and it is a freaking 2/3 flier.

re: zendikar's mechanics

Landfall - 5/5
doesn't need to be built around, tends to be on cards that are good anyway, and the abilities proc nearly half the time (more if you use bounce or draw).  i have one of these. (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=192230)

Quest counter cards - 3/5
not a bad mechanic, can't say i prefer it to Suspend, but many of the cards have good effects and are easy to get to go off.  i have one of these. (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=180448)

Ally cards - 1/5
won't be bad in type 2, but you need to build the deck around it.  the abilities only go off when you first play the creature, making selfbounce a necessity.  no lasting power; you'll never see ally decks in extended.

"Spell" lands - 2/5
i generally despise lands that come into play tapped.  i think some of the effects are garbage (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=169975) as well; you'd really have to run selfbounce hard to make the effect appreciable.  btw, this shit is bananas (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=190414) (but only goes in a mono-white).  take note: it has a name but no, it's not a legendary land.

in summation, hell yeah river boa (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=197405), get down wit yo bad self.

--

additionally, i figured out how to fix black lotus.

ahem

White Lotus - 0
Artifact
Tap: Choose a color.  Then, search your library for up to three cards named White Lotus and exile those cards.  For each card exiled this way, add one mana of the chosen color to your mana pool.  Then, exile White Lotus.  Then punch yourself.

PROS: Much higher chance of seeing one of these in your opening hand.

CONS: Takes up 4 card slots (all probably rares), exiles itself right away, also you have to punch yourself.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Norondor on September 27, 2009, 06:49:09 PM
Honestly, Blacker Lotus (http://magiccards.info/ug/en/4.html) is probably the right way to go.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Lady Duke on September 27, 2009, 06:55:40 PM
Kazz got me a Felidar Sovereign  :nyoro~n:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 27, 2009, 06:59:12 PM
Kazz's better solution would not work even remotely in any formats where cutting your deck size would be an advantage rather than a disadvantage (of course, only as a by product of a card doing something good, as opposed to say, Foresight (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ai/43.jpg)).

Unfortunately, this is all formats. Even Type 2.

I mean, Fetchlands have seen tournament play in monocoloured aggro decks just to reduce a player's statistical probability of hitting a land. And history has demonstrated that free artifact mana is almost always overly abuseable. Even Lotus Petal (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/tp/284.jpg) is banned in banned in Legacy/restricted in Type 1.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on September 27, 2009, 07:08:44 PM
A, you're exiling the cards, not just putting them in your graveyard, so once it's done it's not coming back.  that limits abuse.

B, having to stick 4 of the card in your deck is the most obvious disadvantage on the card.

actually i can't tell if you're arguing that the cards are too bad or too good.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on September 27, 2009, 07:13:54 PM
4 of them in a deck isn't a strong disadvantage if they're immediately removed. the fact that you can draw multiples is actually a disadvantage. It not happening again is relevant against combos but 4 mana on turn one is just too powerful to allow
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on September 27, 2009, 07:21:46 PM
still more balanced than a handful of moxes.  and those stick around.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on September 27, 2009, 07:25:08 PM
I don't think Kazz is saying that it's a disadvantage to have to devote 4 of your 60 cards to White Lotus, because with it exiling itself and all copies of itself on use that's really obviously an advantage.  I think he's saying that it's a disadvantage to have to spend the money getting four copies of White Lotus to put in your deck.  Which is ... absurd.  You can't balance around rarity, or the secondary market.

As you have it written, White Lotus is probably better than Black Lotus.  If it weren't limited to mana all of one color, it would be a lot better than Black Lotus.  It's basically a Black Lotus that you're more likely to get in your opening hand, and which also says "If this card is in your deck, reduce the maximum size of your deck for tournament legality by 3."  That's not fixing.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on September 27, 2009, 07:32:33 PM
I don't think Kazz is saying that it's a disadvantage to have to devote 4 of your 60 cards to White Lotus

actually i was.  but i've been thinking about it some more and i'm proooobably wrong.

i just struggle with spell space.  having to devote 4 cards to 1 effect that can only happen once seems to me like a pain.

but then it is the best effect in the game, so.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: yyler on September 27, 2009, 07:45:03 PM
4 mana can let you drop some mean creatures

and if I thought about it long enough, it'd probably let you win in one turn via some bullshit combo

4 mana turn one is just a game winner, and if it were type 2, Wizards may as well say "well instead of everyone spending $50 per card, you now start your first turn with 4 mana of any color" because thats stupid
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on September 27, 2009, 07:48:09 PM
ok, revised:

"For each card exiled this way, add one mana of the chosen color to your mana pool and you lose 4 life."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on September 27, 2009, 07:49:38 PM
It's not that it's more balanced than Black Lotus. It's that Black Lotus is quite simply the most broken card of all Magic.

Quote
This is a card so obscene that they had to ban a card that does exactly one third of what it does. They had to deal with a card that does the same thing, with the little drawback that you have to discard your hand. That's how good Black Lotus is even before you start abusing it.

Balancing it by removing copies of it from your deck doesn't work, because there have been people willing to play 4 copies of Street Wraith just because it'll leave the deck on command if you pay 2 life per copy. 4 cards off your deck means a 7% extra chance to get the card you need to finish your awesome combo.

Warning blah blah blah

OK that works a bit better. But at that point it's just a modified Channel.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: yyler on September 27, 2009, 07:52:23 PM
There is no way to balance a Lotus card
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on September 27, 2009, 07:55:51 PM
let's talk about zendikar instead

lol @ vampires amirite

also i'd rather gouge out my eyes than ever see this card again (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=180348)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 27, 2009, 08:04:29 PM
In Kazz's Defense, I don't think he's ever played Type 1/Legacy.

(http://magiclampoon.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/type-one.jpg)

EDIT: Awwww Hedron Crab is an awful card, but it's kinda cute.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on September 27, 2009, 08:14:03 PM
Type One isn't good enough

they should make it an instant

re: hedron card, it mills you faster than anything ever, what are you talkin about, it's a big jerk
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on September 27, 2009, 08:16:17 PM
I could see it being a big problem in limited, yeah.

Pretty optimistic that next block might be Alternate Win Conditions block. Of course, I suspected the same of Zendikar, and we wound up with a land theme so I'm not exactly good at guessing.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Norondor on September 27, 2009, 08:38:20 PM
Clearly they should bring back poison, then only give it to colors that don't need alternate win conditions
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on September 27, 2009, 09:03:03 PM
oh yeah

Trap cards - 0/5
stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid.  this crummy ability is cheaper if your opponent does X, where X is something only one deck in four or five even attempts to do.  these are like, what... cards designed to go in sideboards?  it'd shock me to see these used effectively in any deck.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on September 27, 2009, 09:38:17 PM
kazz I think you saw some of the shittier traps. You're right that a lot of them are really limited, but several are quite good. The white ones that depend on guys attacking you are pretty reliable and also good to cast without the trap cost. Same for stuff like baloth cage trap. lots of people have artifacts and even if they don't a 4/4 for 5 suddenly blocking their dude isn't terrible
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Detonator on September 27, 2009, 10:09:52 PM
Trap cards?  What the fuck, is this Yu-Gi-Oh now?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: yyler on September 27, 2009, 10:21:41 PM
Shit, I haven't seen that parable drawn yet

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kashan on September 27, 2009, 11:18:01 PM
Archive trap will probably be pretty great in constructed. I mean it's a free card that mills your opponent for 13 cards if they have searched their deck for a card, which will happen about every other turn in constructed.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 28, 2009, 03:14:39 AM
Archive Trap works if there is a mill deck in standard. The jury's still out on that one, but it seems unlikely.

The problem with Mill has always been that because it's fundamentally non-interactive (unless you're playing against a deck that tutors a lot or something oddball), it does you nothing to help you until you win. So in order for a mill deck to be fast enough to win you the game, it almost certainly has to be fast enough that it's abusive.

I think the cards exist in Standard for a so-so fast Mill deck, but not an abusive one - which means I don't think Mill will be a successful strategy.

Ahhh, anyway, blah blah blah
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on September 28, 2009, 03:26:25 AM
Archive Trap is probably one of the better cards available once you have an active Bloodchief Ascension. And if the opponent doesn't seem eager to search his library on his own, there's always Path to Exile.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 28, 2009, 06:31:21 AM
Path to Exile is pretty funny with Archive Trap, yeah.

"I Path your creature... WOULD YOU CARE TO GO GET A LAND?"
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: God of Gambling on September 28, 2009, 09:08:47 AM
I think there's some rule at Wizards where if there's a mechanic that honestly has no good cards for it, they'll eventually make one card to justify it's existence.

If not in the set they introduce it in, at some point in a future set.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 29, 2009, 06:03:34 AM
they should have called it Large Hedron Collider, amirite
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 29, 2009, 06:06:55 AM
:lol:

Also: Amusingly, Wizards is playing coy on the "priceless treasures". No more staff have mentioned it, no statements have been made, and nothing so much as breathes a word about it on their website.

As far as they're concerned, it might as well not be happening.

:glee:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on September 29, 2009, 10:19:33 PM
I really like landfall in theory, but in practice I keep wishing Elvish Pioneer was standard legal.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on October 03, 2009, 09:43:19 PM
who's got two thumbs and a lotus cobra

this guyyyyy
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 04, 2009, 06:59:33 AM
(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/object3/1035/56/n37436298935_9135.jpg)

"Well son, we can solve your dilemma. Which would you like to keep?"
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kayma on October 04, 2009, 07:55:57 PM
who's got two thumbs and a lotus cobra

this guyyyyy

also this guyyyy

Not that I have anyone to play with. I need to go friendly up some nerds at the local comic shop.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 05, 2009, 01:18:35 PM
(http://www.houseofsixten.com/stealth/alara/snake.jpg)

Quote from: Mark Rosewater
We've also decided that there are certain things we specifically do not want to be mythic rares. The largest category is utility cards, what I'll define as cards that fill a universal function.

 :facepalm: Way to stick to your guns, there.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on October 05, 2009, 02:41:41 PM
... whoa.  What the hell deck that can cast green spells at all wouldn't want four of these?  That's awesome for any purpose.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Sharkey on October 05, 2009, 03:08:38 PM
One of those cases where getting rid of mana burn would make a big goddamn difference.

... er, I mean, I have no idea what you nerds are talking about. I'm going to go drink lots of awesome booze and have sex with pretty ladies. NERDS.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Detonator on October 05, 2009, 03:37:18 PM
One of those cases where getting rid of mana burn would make a big goddamn difference.

If I'm understanding you correctly, then the card says you MAY add one mana to your mana pool.  I don't see how mana burn would be a problem there.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kashan on October 05, 2009, 04:26:52 PM
Mana burn doesn't exist anymore anyhow.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 05, 2009, 05:05:25 PM
Mana burn doesn't exist anymore anyhow.

Yeah, Sharkey's probably safe from DEEP NERD WATERS if he's out of the loop enough that he hasn't heard that they abolished mana burn.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Lady Duke on October 05, 2009, 06:30:42 PM
Kazz doesn't have a Lotus Cobra.  I doooooooo.

And 3 fetch lands.....that I'll never use ever.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on October 05, 2009, 06:42:52 PM
not something to gloat about
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Lady Duke on October 05, 2009, 06:46:41 PM
Yuh huh.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 05, 2009, 07:00:12 PM
Give me all your Fetchlands. I'll make sure they don't sit on some dusty shelf.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 05, 2009, 08:55:02 PM
I would covet them too, if I didn't object to the rules text.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on October 06, 2009, 10:23:10 AM
Hey Mongrel, do you still have most of that enormous box of cards I sent you?  Turns out /that wasn't all of it/.  I found another box of equal size at my parents place.  Mostly tempest block and earlier.  More bad fallen empire cards than you can shake a stick at.

Also, if you're willing to do a charity case, LD really needs some slivers out of that old junk.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 06, 2009, 10:45:27 AM
If you send it to me, I'll send her all the slivers. I have all the Tempest block ones I'll ever need, but I could use some more old-set stuff.

You want some bucks for postage or something?  PM me and I can send you my address if you want.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 06, 2009, 11:49:57 AM
NOOOO SEND IT TO MEEEEEEE

PLEEEEEEASE
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on October 06, 2009, 12:01:43 PM
*murders Buge, cuts him up into chunks, puts each piece in a seperate trash bag, chains the bags to bricks, throws the bags into the Atlantic Ocean, goes home and puts a blood slide inside his air conditioner*
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Lady Duke on October 06, 2009, 12:10:37 PM
Omg max, totally send it to Mongrel :D :D :D
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on October 06, 2009, 03:30:59 PM
I will examine the box this weekend and figure out what to do with it.  Sure as hell not keeping it for long.  I've been addiction free for several years and I do not want a relapse.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 06, 2009, 06:17:21 PM
Oh, you want Slivers, LD? You can have all of mine anyway.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Lady Duke on October 06, 2009, 06:20:05 PM
HURRAY FOR SLIVERS!  And for Buges :D
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Niku on October 06, 2009, 06:21:10 PM
i am so buying that premium sliver deck that is coming out
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on October 06, 2009, 07:30:04 PM
i am so buying that premium sliver deck that is coming out
This.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on October 07, 2009, 12:22:03 AM
I've got a box of shadowmoor stuff sitting next to me I will never have a use for. If someone has a interest I will send it off. There is also an assortment of rares and promos.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 07, 2009, 03:08:34 AM
I am interested in all things MTGical. I'm like some giant MTG disposal unit.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 07, 2009, 03:56:27 AM
 (http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu23/Bon_Bon_2009/scruffy-1.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 07, 2009, 05:00:10 AM
Say Envy, you got a Figure of Destiny in there? I've been needing another copy ever since the 2010 rules made my Goblin Legionnaires a fair bit crappier.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on October 07, 2009, 04:36:21 PM
Ha ha I sent you a message with whats in there. You will be pleasently suprise Mongrel.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 07, 2009, 05:33:15 PM
Buge, instead, you will be pleasantly surprised.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Lady Duke on October 07, 2009, 05:39:22 PM
I like cards too ;-;
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 07, 2009, 06:29:31 PM
I like cards too ;-;

Well, I'm hoping Max will send me his stuff. I'll send you all the slivers.

Is there anything else you need or are looking for?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on October 07, 2009, 07:05:10 PM
The only thing I diddnt add to what I'm giving out is the 4 foil reflecting pools, last stand's, duals, and FoWs. If you really want some stuff LD I can try to find more in my shed of what I shelfed away.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 07, 2009, 07:39:31 PM
Eventide Duals? Foil reflecting pools?

And do you actually have Force of Wills?

That stuff's actually worth money you know, you might want to try and er, get something for that. If you meant regular dual lands, I uh, might want to make you an offer on some.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on October 07, 2009, 07:56:48 PM
I'm talking about old Dual. Taigas and crap. Yes I have force of wills. Sadly no offers on the duals. Those are a key part of last stand.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 07, 2009, 08:04:12 PM
I'm talking about old Dual. Taigas and crap. Yes I have force of wills. Sadly no offers on the duals. Those are a key part of last stand.

Oh this is a deck you're keeping. That makes sense at least. I thought you meant Last Stand (http://magiccards.info/ap/en/107.html). Or do you actually have a deck based on that card?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 07, 2009, 08:06:58 PM
By the way, I'd just like to say that while most folks I've talked to hate it, I can only find this month's FNM promo card to be PRICELESS.

(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/2093/browbeat.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: yyler on October 07, 2009, 08:07:36 PM
When Browbeat was T2 I remember it being fucking broken. How does ANYONE hate it?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: yyler on October 07, 2009, 08:08:05 PM
Maybe they mean they hate having it used against them, because man I don't know any other thing they could hate about it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on October 07, 2009, 08:10:04 PM
I'm talking about old Dual. Taigas and crap. Yes I have force of wills. Sadly no offers on the duals. Those are a key part of last stand.

Oh this is a deck you're keeping. That makes sense at least. I thought you meant Last Stand (http://magiccards.info/ap/en/107.html). Or do you actually have a deck based on that card?
I am dead serious it is a last stand deck. Based on the card last stand and coalition victory.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 07, 2009, 08:18:04 PM
Maybe they mean they hate having it used against them, because man I don't know any other thing they could hate about it.

I just love that picture. It's like the cover for some horrible early 90's metal album.

WHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHEEYYYYYYY!!!!!!!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on October 07, 2009, 08:24:37 PM
I know the picture is awesome and the effect more so. The deck has shadowmage infiltrators and the like in it, force of wills, just random awesome thigns to make the deck great. Cromat has much love from me though.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 07, 2009, 09:50:35 PM
Haha, my friend Phil had a Cromat/Coalition Victory deck. It used all five Battlemages and "gate" creatures to keep things interesting.

Of course, he also built a Slivers/Damping Matrix deck, a Vedalken Shackles/Bribery/Spawnbroker/Imaginary Pet/Temporal Adept deck, a Timesifter/Sensei's Divining Top Deck, a Myr Incubator/Coat of Arms deck, an only-two-creatures/Proteus Staff/Raise the Alarm/Goblin Charbelcher deck....

Oh yes, and a Sins of the Past/Eye of the Storm/Seething Song/Stone Rain/Pyromatics deck.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on October 07, 2009, 10:34:17 PM
I just like last stand cause it is so wacky and by the time you play it if you only have dual lands well you have so many effects going off at once. I still like forbidden Orchard/ and Oath of druids deck. Then again everyone and their mother had a Oath deck.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 08, 2009, 03:05:49 AM
I'm one of those horrible people that builds decks and then never really takes them apart (unless the deck really bores me or Wizards kills it with errata). Got about 20 decks right now.

Years ago (around Urza's block), a lot of my decks started as sort of tributes/examples of decks that no one played anymore, that have since been re-popularised by Wizards (like big stupid green, white weenie, sllivers, etc.), so they've been tuned and have gained cards for years and are a little too good for average casual play now. They tend to be type one, but because they're usually fairly casual, they're only about as good as a proper Legacy (1.5) deck, maybe a little less than that.

I've been trying to add a couple of new decks for a while now based on my usual "find a pile of cards you like playing with and go from there". See I tend to just aquire cards slowly that I think will be fun or useful in a deck and eventually a new deck just presents itself from my binder pages. These days I pretty much spend my time now waiting for Wizards to print new cards that turn out to be the 'missing pieces' that I never knew I needed for any of my potential decks.

I just haven't been able to get anywhere lately though. Nothing really stands out as complete and the last two years have yielded some pretty slim pickings as far as cool new cards go. The closest thing I've got is the following pile:

4x Undermine (http://magiccards.info/in/en/282.html)
4x Countersquall (http://magiccards.info/cfx/en/103.html)
4x Mundungu (http://magiccards.info/vi/en/132.html)

With possibly 3x or 4x Forsaken Wastes (http://magiccards.info/mr/en/23.html) and maybe 3x Pillar Tombs of Aku (http://magiccards.info/vi/en/17.html)

I could make it more controllish, with more counterspells etc. or maybe more board control (black kill spells, Damnation (http://magiccards.info/mprp/en/24.html)), but what really gets me is that Forsaken wastes isn't really a win condition on it's own unless I totally lock an opponent down (which this deck doesn't really do), and even then against a good aggro deck it's still not a sure thing. What the deck needs is a really fun win condition that's in keeping with the deck's "Quit hittin' yerself! Quit hittin' yerself!" theme, Maybe 4-10 more cards. But I have no clue what. I also wish it had at least one more really solid control spell like Countersquall/Undermine, but stuff like Psychic Venom (http://magiccards.info/rv/en/76.html), while funny enough to run, isn't quite good enough to actually do much. Sorin Markov (http://magiccards.info/zen/en/111.html) seems funny as a 2x, but he won't win games on his own and his second ability might as well be blank as far as my deck is concerned (most likley the opponent ought to be down to at least 10 or so by the time I would get six mana).

Any suggestions?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on October 08, 2009, 04:08:44 AM
Remember when we were talking about Bloodchief Ascension? Well, see, I think it's a perfect fit in your deck. It can come down on turn one, when otherwise you don't have much going on. Before you ascend, it cares about the opponent losing life; afterward, it cares about the opponent losing cards. Undermine and Countersquall work equally well for both sides of that arrangement. Merfolk Looter or the like can get rid of unnecessary duplicates. I'm fond of Blizzard Specter for additional life and card loss. If you're willing to go to three colors, you could go for Agent of Masks, which has been one of my favorites for a long time.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on October 08, 2009, 04:39:45 AM
If your wanting counterspell and life loss. Dash Hopes is pretty good. 2 black and they either get countered or lose 5 life.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 08, 2009, 05:40:10 AM
Remember when we were talking about Bloodchief Ascension? Well, see, I think it's a perfect fit in your deck. It can come down on turn one, when otherwise you don't have much going on. Before you ascend, it cares about the opponent losing life; afterward, it cares about the opponent losing cards. Undermine and Countersquall work equally well for both sides of that arrangement. Merfolk Looter or the like can get rid of unnecessary duplicates. I'm fond of Blizzard Specter for additional life and card loss. If you're willing to go to three colors, you could go for Agent of Masks, which has been one of my favorites for a long time.

Huh, Bloodcheif ascension might be okay... I don't know, I hate topdecking quests. I mean, it's be great turn one, but after that, I dunno. Well, we'll see.

Dash Hopes is pretty funny though.

Oh by the way, isn't there some black Psychic Venom from Time Spiral Block?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 08, 2009, 05:49:06 AM
Ah! Found it: Pooling Venom (http://magiccards.info/fut/en/74.html).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Lady Duke on October 08, 2009, 08:31:34 AM
I dunno what else I'd need really.  I like cards.  And I like pretty cards.  I don't think there's anything I need aside from slivers, because damn it, I want my sliver deck to be awesome and cool.  And slivers are awesome and cool so it's already halfway there.

And to envy, I would take whatever cards you would care to give me.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on October 08, 2009, 08:43:24 AM
If your wanting counterspell and life loss. Dash Hopes is pretty good. 2 black and they either get countered or lose 5 life.

I'd rather have black discard.  When I counter a spell, I want it good and countered.  If someone chooses to lose 5 life, the spell was clearly important enough for them to win with it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 08, 2009, 09:01:53 AM
If your wanting counterspell and life loss. Dash Hopes is pretty good. 2 black and they either get countered or lose 5 life.

I'd rather have black discard.  When I counter a spell, I want it good and countered.  If someone chooses to lose 5 life, the spell was clearly important enough for them to win with it.

See, normally I'd agree. Dash Hopes (and every 'choice' card except Fact or Fiction or Browbeat) is usually trash. But you're going to get one or the other effect and in THIS deck (and no other) that actually works. I can use it use it as a 'soft counter': I won't rely on it, I would instead count on Undermine, Countersquall and Damnation to save me (I'm pretty sure Damnation goes in this deck, oh hell yeah).

Plus if they are at low enough life, it IS a hard counter due to the way my deck bleeds folks. 

Soooo...

FYI I AM A DICK.dec

4-8x Random draw engine/draw spells... maybe even Shadowmage Infiltrator?
4x Undermine (http://magiccards.info/in/en/282.html)
4x Countersquall (http://magiccards.info/cfx/en/103.html)
4x Mundungu (http://magiccards.info/vi/en/132.html)
4x Forsaken Wastes (http://magiccards.info/mr/en/23.html)
4x Pooling Venom (http://magiccards.info/fut/en/74.html)
4x Damnation (http://magiccards.info/mprp/en/24.html)
4x Bloodchief Ascension (http://magiccards.info/zen/en/82.html)
4x Dash Hopes (http://magiccards.info/pc/en/68.html)
2x Sorin Markov (http://magiccards.info/zen/en/111.html)

Strong maybes:
3x Pillar Tombs of Aku (http://magiccards.info/vi/en/17.html)
4x Psychic Venom (http://magiccards.info/rv/en/76.html)
4x Dark Ritual (http://magiccards.info/4e/en/13.html)

Possible additional control packages:
4x Duress and 4x Hymn to Tourach
OR
4x Countersmell and 4x Force of Will

(both are kind of boring though, I have both of those in a deck already... so I'll probably just go with the silliness above, unless it's really way too weak)

22x Manabase

(yes, that's already too many cards, yes some would have to be cut)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on October 08, 2009, 09:07:30 AM
My blackgreen runs 4 Hymns, 3 Wrench Minds and 2 Mind Shatters.  I could run Duress instead of WM, but I prefer to make them lose 2 cards when I use 1.  An empty hand is a happy hand.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 08, 2009, 09:08:52 AM
My Black-Green is a reanimator.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 08, 2009, 09:57:45 AM
I've been tinkering with a zombie deck idea... why not splash green? Strength of Night (http://magiccards.info/ap/en/86.html), Shambling Shell (http://magiccards.info/rav/en/230.html), Llanowar Dead (http://magiccards.info/ap/en/109.html), Vulturous Zombie (http://magiccards.info/rav/en/238.html)... I may have to throw in Savra  (http://magiccards.info/rav/en/225.html)or a Gleancrawler  (http://magiccards.info/ptc/en/27.html)just in case, but that would break the tribal-ility.

I've always wanted to try building a "Rock" deck. What would I need for that these days?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on October 08, 2009, 10:09:10 AM
I dislike Shambling Shell cause I dislike Dredge and anything with 1 toughness.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 08, 2009, 11:42:06 AM
I've been tinkering with a zombie deck idea... why not splash green? Strength of Night (http://magiccards.info/ap/en/86.html), Shambling Shell (http://magiccards.info/rav/en/230.html), Llanowar Dead (http://magiccards.info/ap/en/109.html), Vulturous Zombie (http://magiccards.info/rav/en/238.html)... I may have to throw in Savra  (http://magiccards.info/rav/en/225.html)or a Gleancrawler  (http://magiccards.info/ptc/en/27.html)just in case, but that would break the tribal-ility.

I've always wanted to try building a "Rock" deck. What would I need for that these days?

Starr has a gassy rock deck based around Dora The Explorer (http://magiccards.info/cp/en/9.html)

4x Vindicate (http://magiccards.info/jr/en/33.html), 4x Maelstrom Pulse (http://magiccards.info/arb/en/92.html), and 4x Tarmogoyf (http://magiccards.info/fut/en/153.html) is pretty funny.

I think she's also got Bob Maher (http://magiccards.info/rav/en/81.html) (aka "Where's that finger been?"), and Cabal Therapy (http://magiccards.info/fnmp/en/60.html) in there with some other discard and board control stuff.

Landbase is 4x Murmuring Bosk (http://magiccards.info/mt/en/147.html) and some other G/B, G/W, and W/B lands.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 08, 2009, 12:16:15 PM
Actually, Kazz's post reminded me that my other black-blue deck is discard-bounce. Duress x4, Hymn x4, Thoughtsieze x4 with Hippies, rituals, and ravenous rats. Then I added silly stuff like Recoil (instant-speed Vindicate when they have no hand!), Man-o-war, and Tradewind Rider. Basically, I hammer them till they have no hand. Then when they play spells as they draw them, I bounce them and my discard effects gain a new lease on life.

Avatar of Will (http://magiccards.info/pr/en/30.html) is the kill :perfect:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on October 08, 2009, 12:54:31 PM
In case your looking for a alternate to Shadowmage there is dimir cutpurse. It's the same cost except you lose the fear for them discarding a card.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 08, 2009, 01:19:11 PM
Well, the alternative to shadowmage is actually draw spells. Brainstorm, etc. Shadowmage is a creature and thus vulnerable to all the mass creature hate I'm packing. Mundungu stays because he's funny as hell (Mundungu is practically the reason I'm making this deck) and losing him to Pillar Tombs or Damnation doesn't really hurt, but you need reliable draw.

I might try half-and-half, with say three infiltrators and three draw spells, or maybe I'll find some other draw. Maybe even that silly blue quest?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on October 08, 2009, 03:31:07 PM
Mundungu should be in every deck. That is all.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 08, 2009, 05:50:41 PM
You just have to say it to know that's the truth.

MUNDUNGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!  :whoops: :glee:

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on October 15, 2009, 10:33:03 AM
I had a idea while looking through some of my older stuff. Perhaps something involving Enduring Renewal and 0 Cost creatures. I have a 4 set of every kobold and Ornithopters.

Edit: Any suggestions?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on October 15, 2009, 10:38:13 AM
rofl.  Had no idea that Kobold Taskmaster was a Time Spiral reprint.  That must have disappointed a lot of people.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 15, 2009, 10:44:40 AM
rofl.  Had no idea that Kobold Taskmaster was a Time Spiral reprint.  That must have disappointed a lot of people.

That's nothing. Guess what else they reprinted in Time Spiral. (http://magiccards.info/tsts/en/15.html)

I made a point of getting a foil one. Just because.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on October 15, 2009, 10:48:22 AM
Fuck everybody.  I love Wizards.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on October 15, 2009, 10:52:01 AM
Getting two copies of  The Rack passed to you in a draft is both a miracle and hilarious.

Edit: To fix grammar.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on October 15, 2009, 02:51:58 PM
Fun fact: They did consider reprinting Chimney Imp in Time Spiral, but they figured Squire was more well known.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 15, 2009, 03:19:42 PM
Relevant (http://magiclampoon.com/blog/2009/03/11/sneak-peek-from-the-vault-squire/)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on November 02, 2009, 10:39:04 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200401330450

friend want sell lotus cobra

buy lotus cobra?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 02, 2009, 10:45:09 AM
Their value is tanking because there's no deck for them right now. Median values for Lotus Cobras has already fallen from $25 down to the high teens. Reputable sellers are saying the price will settle around $10-$15.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is your friend will probably get his opening bid but not much else.

Me? I want Spanish ones. The name sounds like 'Lotto Cobra', which is kind of what you get when you play him. "Come on LAND! BIG MANA! NO WHAMMIES! POPPA NEEDS A NEW BANESLAYER ANGEL"
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on November 02, 2009, 12:14:44 PM
I was about to post some Press Your Luck video clip of whammies and whatnot, when my google search came up with this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEzWa_0GoUg

...Oh, Ubisoft.  :nyoro~n:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 02, 2009, 02:02:51 PM
Wow, I just can't believe I did a they're/their in my post above.

*cringes*
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 03, 2009, 05:03:38 PM
I am so  :lol: at the Lotus Cobra deck deficit. I mean, what's the matter? Green has always had a ramp-mana-into-fatties utility.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 03, 2009, 05:40:53 PM
Well, to be more accurate, it's that there's no OMG BROKEN C-C-C-C-COMBOOO with Cobra. Nor will there be.

He's a useful accelerant that is often inferior to Birds of Paradise and occasionally superior. The only reason Cobra is still worth more is because birds has been in print for 16 years.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on November 05, 2009, 09:41:12 AM
Slivers are awesome. (http://power9pro.com/blog/2009/10/premium-deck-series-slivers-awesome/)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on November 05, 2009, 09:48:36 AM
Double post cause well. Sliver queen is not getting reprinted but this sure is! (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Amoeboid Changeling/) That will be grand when I'm making my sliver lose all its types and givin gmy opponent all sorts of buffs.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 05, 2009, 10:25:31 AM
Yeah, seen that.

I don't actually give a damn about foil cards in and of themselves (except when it's funny, like my foil Squire, or my foil Foil). I AM a big sucker for premium products, but only if they have new (and pretty) art. So I'm a big whore for judge & pro tour promos, etc.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on November 05, 2009, 11:00:35 AM
I got so pissed at Von when she kept putting my foil commons in with my uncommons.

THEY ARE NOT UNCOMMONS JUST CAUSE THEY'RE HARD TO READ OK
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Niku on November 05, 2009, 11:20:24 AM
yesssssssssssssssss

I have been chomping at the bit for that fucking deck ever since they announced it.  The only real deck I still even have to play Magic with is my ancient Sliver deck which is basically just "a lot of slivers with alluren and coat of arms".  So I want it more for the prettiness and the principle than really caring about playing Magic again.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 05, 2009, 11:25:15 AM
I play the ancient countersliver deck. I'm at work so this is from memory (some of those 3-ofs are 2-ofs, but I don't remember which), but I think it's something like this:

4x Crystalline Sliver
4x Muscle Sliver
3x Sinew Sliver
3x Winged Sliver
2x Hibernation Sliver
1x Toxin Sliver
1x Sliver Overlord
1x Sliver Queen
1x Coat of Arms
4x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
2x Worship
3x Sterling Grove
1x Impulse
1x Brainstorm
1x Ponder
4x City of Brass
4x Tropical Island
4x Tundra
2x Savannah
1x Underground Sea
4x Flooded Strand

Ima WHORE WHORE, Ima WHORE WHORE.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 11, 2009, 06:56:51 PM
There's a surprising abundance of MTG fanart on pixiv. Not all of it is worksafe though, but a lot of it is cute.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on November 11, 2009, 09:05:43 PM
moar chibi chandra
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 12, 2009, 04:06:33 AM
moar chibi chandra

That's actually supposed to be Jaya Ballard. But if you want chibi-Chandra, you'll be happy to know Dengeki Maoh an WotC are hard at work making an MTG manga. (http://news.dengeki.com/elem/000/000/200/200060/)

(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96755&stc=1&d=1255441016)

(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96756&stc=1&d=1255441016)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 12, 2009, 05:41:34 AM
That's pretty neat, except for being a decade late (http://www.amazon.co.jp/MAGIC%E2%80%95URZA-MISHRA-%E5%B0%8F%E9%87%8E-%E6%95%8F%E6%B4%8B/dp/4091580416/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205249845&sr=8-2) to the game....

But then hey, it is Wizards.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Lady Duke on November 14, 2009, 06:51:02 PM
You're my favorite, Buge :D

My package finally came today :3 :3 :3
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 14, 2009, 09:10:22 PM
"Slivers are evil and slivers are sly;
And if you get eaten, then no one will cry."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Lady Duke on November 15, 2009, 06:56:01 PM
:D
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 04, 2010, 09:19:11 PM
Too good not to post.

So, last night WotC had a series of annoucements about all kinds of products this year (most of which were nto news to rumour-mongers, but eh, whatevs). One of those announcements was regarding another 'from the vault' boxed set of premium cards (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/356).

Based on the picture that accompanied the article, Starr made the following joke photochop on an MTG site she vists (http://goodgamery.com/index.php/2010/01/04/from-the-vault-conservator/). It was well-received enough to make the front page later in the day. 

But that's not what what made me post. What truly amused us was the fact that the joke actually prompted a rebuttal from WotC (http://twitter.com/dailymtg/status/7379105853).

All in the same day too. :itsmagic:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 05, 2010, 08:29:40 AM
(http://i588.photobucket.com/albums/ss327/0xCAPTAINx0/brilliant.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on January 28, 2010, 04:02:02 AM
So the new set is spoiled. My favorite card has got to be Bazaar Trader for all the shenannigans I can pull off.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 30, 2010, 06:50:15 PM
Preview image for the next MTG set in May depicts impending tenatacle rape. (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100973&d=1264905274)

Yeah, it doesn't really, but I don't know how you can't make that joke with that pic. Oh Wizards.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 30, 2010, 07:11:31 PM
Hey, anybody want these cards? I got that Zendikar vampire deck as a gift and I refuse to own anything that refers to 'the battlefield.' You'll get everything except two Child of Nights, two V. Aristocrats and the Diabolic Tutor. A foil rare came in the pack accompanying it, FYI.

Eugh. Even the lands are ugly. I know they're swamps and they're supposed to be 'evil' looking but god damn.

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 30, 2010, 08:16:17 PM
Don't really need those cards. Any other takers?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on January 30, 2010, 09:36:57 PM
Preview image for the next MTG set in May depicts impending tenatacle rape. (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100973&d=1264905274)

Yeah, it doesn't really, but I don't know how you can't make that joke with that pic. Oh Wizards.

What's curious to me about that image is that, so far, Zendikar angels all have the eye-level halos:
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&block=|[%22Zendikar%20Block%22]&subtype=+[%22Angel%22]

I know that RotE is supposed to be mechanically distinct, but it's surprising that the tribe design would change so much.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on January 31, 2010, 12:49:52 AM
35 player Round robin is quite possibly the worst format.





Edit: Cause I'm way too tired.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on January 31, 2010, 02:51:29 AM
newbie: use a tinyurl if the link is fucked up

envy: you mean you have to play against all of 34 other players, one by one?

that is ridiculous
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 09, 2010, 05:45:28 AM
moar chibi chandra

That's actually supposed to be Jaya Ballard. But if you want chibi-Chandra, you'll be happy to know Dengeki Maoh an WotC are hard at work making an MTG manga. (http://news.dengeki.com/elem/000/000/200/200060/)

(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96755&stc=1&d=1255441016)

(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96756&stc=1&d=1255441016)

Huh. (http://news.dengeki.com/elem/000/000/229/229410/)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 09, 2010, 06:11:06 AM
also

moar chibi chandra

k

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/buge/herpaderp/6770251.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 16, 2010, 10:17:32 AM
Oh, this is rich. You know what my D&D friends got me for Christmas?

(http://www.squirrelgames.com/images/slivers-deck.jpg)

 :lol: :facepalm:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on February 16, 2010, 11:50:26 AM
:rolleyes:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on March 01, 2010, 03:23:16 PM
If the impending tentacle rape linked before couldn't convince you that the Eldrazi are supposed to be some sort of quasi-Lovecraftian monsters that break hitherto-unimaginable limits on just how scary Timmy creatures can be, please examine the one that Wizards revealed today.

(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r40/jsnlxndrlv/RiseoftheEldraziCard.jpg)

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: yyler on March 01, 2010, 03:36:17 PM
HOLY FUCK
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: yyler on March 01, 2010, 03:36:33 PM
SUDDENLY I WANT TO PLAY MAGIC AGAIN
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on March 01, 2010, 03:43:37 PM
In a totally unsurprising turn of events, Eye of Ugin (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=197881)—the price of which has been rising steadily since Worldwake was released (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=5010744&postcount=572), on optimism for the Eldrazi alone—is now apparently sold out pretty much everywhere.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 01, 2010, 04:21:20 PM
So it's a colourless creature, but it's not an artifact.

I need to sit down.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on March 01, 2010, 04:32:19 PM
I haven't played MTG for almost a year and a half now, and I heard that M10 changed a lot of the core rules. Is there a place I can read the long and short of these rule changes? I'd sort of like to get back into MTG.

I played mostly legacy (I have the most frightening Sliver deck imaginable), but I'd like to maybe try a tournament-type game sometime.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on March 01, 2010, 04:33:30 PM
You probably want to look at this page (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/42a), Ziiro. Scroll a couple paragraphs down for the overview.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 01, 2010, 05:13:54 PM
(I have the most frightening Sliver deck imaginable)

No, no you don't. Unless it's WBU, all passive-ability slivers and Damping Matrix (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=46727).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on March 01, 2010, 05:31:04 PM
(I have the most frightening Sliver deck imaginable)

No, no you don't. Unless it's WBU, all passive-ability slivers and Damping Matrix (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=46727).

It's a 5-color with the most elegant and expensive solution to the 5 color problem possible.

4 Reflecting Pools (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=152158) and 3(Or was it 4?) of each  Vivid [Land] (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=141882).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 01, 2010, 05:40:21 PM
In a totally unsurprising turn of events, Eye of Ugin (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=197881)—the price of which has been rising steadily since Worldwake was released (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=5010744&postcount=572), on optimism for the Eldrazi alone—is now apparently sold out pretty much everywhere.

Starr and I are sitting on about 11 of these, because we're speculative whores.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 01, 2010, 05:52:42 PM
WBU slivers, eh?

This is one of the oldest decks I own, had it since about Saga Block and little of it has changed since then (Type 1 Format, because as mentioned previously, I'm a whore):

4x Crystalline Sliver
4x Muscle Sliver
3x Sinew Sliver
3x Winged Sliver
3x Hibernation Sliver
1x Toxin Sliver
1x Sliver Queen
1x Sliver Overlord

4x Force of Will
4x Counterspell
1x Brainstorm
1x Impulse
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
2x Worship
3x Sterling Grove
1x Demonic Tutor
2x Coat of Arms

1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Sapphire
4x Flooded Strand
4x Tropical Island
4x Tundra
2x Savannah
1x Underground Sea
4x City of Brass
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Thran Quarry
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 01, 2010, 06:25:19 PM
4x Force of Will
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Sapphire
4x Flooded Strand
4x Tropical Island
4x Tundra
2x Savannah
1x Underground Sea

::|:

/quit
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 01, 2010, 08:05:57 PM
Well, yeah a lot of my decks are like that.

Fortunately, I have over 20 decks constructed at any given time, so that it's perfectly possible for everyone to have a fair game :imagination:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 02, 2010, 04:09:50 AM
From the compiled information for the new set:

Quote
In addition, the set has a new keyword called Level Up. You may spend mana on creatures with Level Up to improve their stats and abilities.

:facepalm: Starr and I have already been joking that Zen block has been "World of Ravenhawk, the MTG set". :facepalm:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on March 02, 2010, 05:13:11 AM
Elder ones.. In my magic. I see my new favorite set.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 02, 2010, 06:45:51 AM
(http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/mtgcom/arcana1000/1119_maritlagetoken.jpg)

Get off my lawn, you kids!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: yyler on March 02, 2010, 02:18:48 PM
From the compiled information for the new set:

Quote
In addition, the set has a new keyword called Level Up. You may spend mana on creatures with Level Up to improve their stats and abilities.

:facepalm: Starr and I have already been joking that Zen block has been "World of Ravenhawk, the MTG set". :facepalm:
Sounds just like the Jappy set where you could flip cards around ...?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on March 02, 2010, 03:15:27 PM
I think the more appropriate compairson is probably Figure of Destiny (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=figure%20of%20Destiny).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: yyler on March 02, 2010, 03:17:43 PM
That too, actually. They are just giving the mechanic a name. Seems like they've been trying it out in tournament play for years now.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on March 03, 2010, 08:08:13 AM
Lorwyn also had the Champion mechanic that was pretty much pokeymans in MTG
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 03, 2010, 09:29:26 AM
(http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/mtgcom/arcana1000/1119_maritlagetoken.jpg)

Get off my lawn, you kids!

You know that Dark Depths is worth $20 now?

Also, I have two of those tokens and wanted to put a top hat, monocle, and Snidely Whiplash mustache on one.

I think the more appropriate compairson is probably Figure of Destiny (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=figure%20of%20Destiny).

That is absolutely the first card I thought of when I heard about "level up".

Then I thought of this:

(http://goodgamery.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Rise-from-your-Grave.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 03, 2010, 10:57:51 AM
You know that Dark Depths is worth $20 now?

No.

But I have two.  :glee:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 03, 2010, 11:05:12 AM
It's because of this card (http://magiccards.info/zen/en/114.html).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 03, 2010, 12:18:42 PM
Oh God, no. (http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2010/03/03/exclusive-magic-the-gathering-film-may-not-be-confined-to-fantasy-realms/)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on March 03, 2010, 12:28:29 PM
Quote from: Website linked above
So you never know. We could end up with something "Lord of the Rings"-esque, but "Magic: The Gathering" could resemble something much more like "Reign of Fire," 1987's "Masters of the Universe" or something else entirely.

 :barf:

I seriously hope Hasbro slides into an ocean of fire before this movie comes out.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 07, 2010, 09:51:16 AM
I found this decklist on /tg/. Looks kinda swingy, but fun. Personally, I'd add more djinns and efreets to it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mothra on March 07, 2010, 10:01:42 AM
Quote from: Website linked above
So you never know. We could end up with something "Lord of the Rings"-esque, but "Magic: The Gathering" could resemble something much more like "Reign of Fire," 1987's "Masters of the Universe" or something else entirely.

 :barf:

I seriously hope Hasbro slides into an ocean of fire before this movie comes out.

Oh good god, if they go the "average boy in the modern world gets whisked into a relm of flight and fancy" route on this damn thing I'm going to heave a javelin through Goldner's chest. I'm not expecting a MTG-based film to be anything more than a massive cash in, but dear sweet satan we don't need any more movies with a plucky hero and his friends running back and forth being endlessly bewildered by CG monsters. This is how you make The Least Enjoyable Movie.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on March 07, 2010, 10:22:25 AM
What do you expect, though? Magic is a game with flavor designed to appeal to 14-year old boys. The mechanics may have broader appeal, but that's where their acquisition effort is focused. I'll consider this movie a success if it's developed, released, and sold on DVD without me ever having learned anything about it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mothra on March 07, 2010, 11:00:58 AM
A decent coming of age tale in cool fantasy realm wherein all the characters are at least somewhat familiar with the concept of magic and demons and all that would make for a fun watch, I'd say. You could still appeal to the 14-year-old crowd without needing the guy to be from our time and our world and going through all the joyless orientation that usually entails.

But yeah, believe me in that I have no real expectation that this is going to be anything but the most generic of generic harry potter takeoffs. I just wish they understood how much better a movie it makes when they can work around all the "modern folks coming to grips with the supernatural" song and dance.

edit: I guess I just want Lookouts the movie
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 07, 2010, 12:17:42 PM
A decent coming of age tale in cool fantasy realm wherein all the characters are at least somewhat familiar with the concept of magic and demons and all that would make for a fun watch, I'd say. You could still appeal to the 14-year-old crowd without needing the guy to be from our time and our world and going through all the joyless orientation that usually entails.

So, this.
(http://www.cardfrenzy.nl/catalog/images/the%20gathering%20dark.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 18, 2010, 08:15:24 AM
Two things today.


First a bit of comedy: Does this animation get the Monty Python theme playing in anyone else's head? (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/396) (click on the "Eye" for some unintentionally Gilliam-esque hilarity).



Second, I am following the terribly amusing car crash of a fiasco regarding the reprint policy/reserved list with ghoulish curiosity. Anyone else know what I'm talking about there, or is that all irrelevant to everyone else?

Coles notes version (though even the coles notes version is pretty long): Many, many, years ago, WotC printed an all-reprint set called "Chronicles". It was misguided attempt to make a number of hard-to-get cards more readily available.

The set was horribly fugly, but in spite of this, prices on most of original printings of the cards in that set crashed (some of which had been worth close to $100 at the time... yes Elder Dragons were once actually worth that much). As a result a number of dealers and stores screamed blue bloody murder after watching some of their stock be grossly devalued. As a response, WotC made a promise as a company, with something known as the "Reserved List".

The reserve list was a curious creature. It was effectively a list of cards they would guarantee they never reprint (which would theoretically mean they would maintain their value). In practice, its got some sensible additions (power nine, etc), but plenty of odd chaff that's worthless and lots of newer cards that are not on the list (they ceased adding cards to the list after Urza's block, once they realized how badly they were shackling themselves). They changed it a few years back when they dropped all "uncommons" from the list. They've also been printing some cards from the list as Judge promos for years now, using a loophole that such cards were "premium" and not for sale to the public (Judge promos are special versions of cards with a known value given to judges in lieu of pay).

The reserved list would never hold up in a court for a lawsuit or anything similar, but was supposed to be a sign or good faith on the company's part. It was a lumpish, unwieldy freak often doing more harm than good, but still had critical value as a sign that the company would honour any pledges it made.

Things became more interesting recently as the head of R&D (Aaron Forsythe) had been publicly grumbling about a policy that many players (and more than a few WotC staffers) thought was obsolete and problematic. They had recently begun pushing the boundaries further, with a recent announcement of several boxed sets that featured a small number of cards from the Reserved list as premium foils as well as some other cards. This was interesting because these products were for general sale to the public which ran against the spirit (and some argued the letter) of the Reserved list. More interesting still was the near-universal applause this was generating among average Magic players. I saw very very few people who disliked the idea of the Reserved list being abolished.

Rumours began to fly as WotC coyly refused to even acknowledge anything was going on, then later finally alluding to it, but only in a bizarre and cryptic way that offered no information on the status of the Reserved List. Then last night an announcement went up on Wizards.com that was like a cold shower for everyone: The old policy was being maintained (no longer called the Reserved List, it is simply called the "Reprint Policy"), there were a handful of cards from the Reserved list that are being reprinted in boxed sets this year and there would be no more. Most damningly, they even listed each and every card from the Reserved List that was being reprinted this year.

I don't really care if they reprint the cards one way or the other. There was a sound case both for and against. What really struck me was how unbelievably unprofessionally they handled the whole thing. Instead of having a frank discussion about the Reserved list, they refused to acknowledge that they were tossing out a policy that existed for over a decade. Instead of announcing things in a big way, they sneakily abused a loophole in a way that was seen as a horrible stretch of credibility even by the most fervent supporters of the Reserved List being abolished - and they used it to reprint cards no one really cares about.

Now they've spun around so fast that their heads have traveled back in time time time time, and again without really offering a any kind of explanation as to just what the hell is going on. It's clear that some very, very high-ranking WotC staffers have had their knuckles rapped - and hard, but beyond that no one knows a damn thing (it has been confirmed however that this is not a "Hasbro" thing, this kerfuffle has been entirely with WotC).

Anyway, it's not of much interest to most folks, even those who play Magic. But the whole thing sure has been a sight to see.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 18, 2010, 09:53:10 AM
Okay, so if I understand you correctly, Mongrel, Wizards is not abolishing the Reserved List.... but it seemed like they would? I don't understand what the problem is. Yes, they printed some stuff recently from the Reserved List in small, prohibitively expensive quantities. But how did that presage the notion that Wizards was going to make a change?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 18, 2010, 10:06:58 AM
Okay, so if I understand you correctly, Mongrel, Wizards is not abolishing the Reserved List.... but it seemed like they would? I don't understand what the problem is. Yes, they printed some stuff recently from the Reserved List in small, prohibitively expensive quantities. But how did that presage the notion that Wizards was going to make a change?

Due to the semantics of the way the list was handled as well as some broad hints (and known  personal opinions) of the high-level executives at WotC, the company had all but announced the list was abolished, barring things like the Power Nine. This was after a period of... pushing the envelope further and further, without really acknowledging the fact that they were doing so.

The about-face is simply stunning, as only three people in the whole company outrank Aaron Forsythe (and two of those are only sorta technicalities).

Anyway, I don't think it's a problem (at least for me), but that's because I'm one of the few people who don't have strong feeling about this and was fine with either outcome.

However, I'm a tiny minority there. A lot of folks on both sides of this are furious. Newer players wanting to break into eternal formats have basically had their hopes dashed*, and collectors will probably never feel really secure again, figuring they've dodged a bullet and nothing more. With the dearth of information, nobody really knows what the hell WotC thought they were doing, and with this abrupt pullback, it seems like even WotC themselves didn't know.

*(It was widely speculated that the best thing to come out of an abolition of the reserved list would be a reprinting of the original 10 dual lands, which are basically the key bottleneck on players getting into Legacy, which is now becoming wildly popular)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 18, 2010, 10:14:33 AM
A bit of clarification/addition:

The Legacy format (aka Type 1.5) is critical to this whole thing. The format has experienced a massive growth in popularity over the past year and a half and many staple cards have shot up in price to the point where all the old complaints about Type 1 being an "exclusive" format are now going being applied to Legacy.

This wouldn't be that important, but Type 1.5 was originally created (and later reformed into the "Legacy" format) to provide an affordable alternative to Type 1, one that allowed almost the same card pool, but cut out the worst (and most expensive) offenders. It was an everyman's Type 1. Now it is rapidly reaching the point where no eternal format is affordable and newer players must simply play with recent cards only (leaving aside the huge surge in $30-50 big-ticket rares in Type 2/Standard, as well as the huge explosion in price speculation in general).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 18, 2010, 11:04:33 AM
I blame the strong period that began with Ravnica and sorta sputtered out after Lorwyn/Shadowmoor.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 18, 2010, 11:59:43 AM
Actually there's been a big increase in the total number of people playing MTG in the past two years, and card prices in all formats have increased accordingly. The reasons behind this huge boost in MTG's popularity was a mystery to most folks, but people are now starting to realize that this is simply the first time in seventeen years that MTG simply has no significant competition.

Their most recent serious competition was VS, which has been defunct for almost the exact same time as MTGs recent boost. Prior to that, there was always at least one major game that offered solid play, a variety of options, and tournaments with non-negligible cash prizes. Now there are none.

(Yes, YuGiOh is still around, but YuGiOh and Pokemon have never been really direct competitors in any meaningful sense as they target a much younger market).



Of course the dark side to all this is that you could argue that WotC can only stand to lose market share from here on out, as they've never managed to grow beyond their demographic. Yes, they now have near-total control of that demographic, but they're functionally at 100% of the market share they can reasonably expect.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on March 18, 2010, 12:04:38 PM
Tangent but related thought.  I've been totally out of hobby games for a year, recently visited the local store and conversed with the owner.  YuGiOh has pulled something new.  There are halfsize arcade units that apparently you play against using some of the newer series cards.  There is a reader of some kind on the arcade.  Are these new cards RFID or something?  Regardless, it's a dollar to play and the cabinet has a prize slot that holds something like 200 prize cards, many unique to the machine, from a given set.

Has anybody seen these things at your local stores?  Are kids actually playing on these things?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 18, 2010, 12:07:27 PM
Tangent but related thought.  I've been totally out of hobby games for a year, recently visited the local store and conversed with the owner.  YuGiOh has pulled something new.  There are halfsize arcade units that apparently you play against using some of the newer series cards.  There is a reader of some kind on the arcade.  Are these new cards RFID or something?  Regardless, it's a dollar to play and the cabinet has a prize slot that holds something like 200 prize cards, many unique to the machine, from a given set.

Has anybody seen these things at your local stores?  Are kids actually playing on these things?

I don't that's YuGiOh... I've heard about that. It's like a half-video game, half CCG, where you play the cards on an electronic board. I forget if the cards are magnetic or RFID or what. I think it might vary from game to game?

The idea started up in Japan (where else?) about 3-5 years ago and there are now a couple of CCGs out there on that model. Of course the CCG market in Japan overall is just insane. There are a ludicrous number of competing CCGs at any given time and every major popular Anime/Manga has a CCG tie-in flogged in the game stores there.

I don't think too many people are playing 'em here yet.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on March 18, 2010, 12:10:46 PM
I'm half curious if there are shops of the less reputable nature who would take one of these machines after it runs through the good prize cards and then just load it with unsellable crap commons instead of ordering a new stack of prize cards from distributor.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 18, 2010, 12:20:06 PM
Pfft. You can count on there being some of those.

Better than half the MTG retailers I ever knew who had those "random repacks" vending machines had them filled with the junk they couldn't get rid of otherwise.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on March 18, 2010, 12:23:30 PM
One day I really hope we're able to get an eye of judgment, augmented reality sort of setup for MTG.

God that'd be amazing
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on March 18, 2010, 12:26:03 PM
I still prefer how my old store gets rid of junk.  "Trash Draft".  Three (or is it two? I forget) packs of stuff from pre-type two sets, heavily biased towards pre-4th edition commons and uncommons and one pack of whatever is new.  Occasionally they will slip in a reasonable but less than seven dollar rare in the old stuff.  Junk is fun when everyone has to play with junk.  "Oh man.  I gotta make a win strategy with... Icatian Shade?"  Trash draft is usually like $5 to play, I think.  Slightly more than the cost of a pack.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 18, 2010, 12:30:21 PM
I love that.

Drafts are always neat, so long as the power level of cards is relatively equal.

The biggest problem I found with trash formats, is when you use cards that are so bad that 3/3's for five with no relevant abilities become huge bombs (Oh god DON'T EVER DRAFT LEGENDS).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on March 18, 2010, 12:36:44 PM
I trash drafted Grollub.

Find me a win condition for that, please.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 18, 2010, 03:48:38 PM
Actually there's been a big increase in the total number of people playing MTG in the past two years, and card prices in all formats have increased accordingly. The reasons behind this huge boost in MTG's popularity was a mystery to most folks, but people are now starting to realize that this is simply the first time in seventeen years that MTG simply has no significant competition.

Their most recent serious competition was VS, which has been defunct for almost the exact same time as MTGs recent boost. Prior to that, there was always at least one major game that offered solid play, a variety of options, and tournaments with non-negligible cash prizes. Now there are none.

This is going to result in a huge dip in quality. I mean, more than what has happened in the past two years. Planeswalkers, Mythic Rares, abolishing manaburn, "battlefield" and "exile", forcing the combat step... R&D has the game kind of on the bubble here.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 18, 2010, 05:48:56 PM
I don't know... you could argue that because theres no competition there's nothing to keep them on their toes, but most of the stuff you've named have come about for other reasons.

Rules changes were because the faction that prefers simplicty in rules won out over the old guard. The Mythic rares came up because WotC has been trying to up the volume of cards sold in various ways over the past six or seven years (for a while it was by having four sets a year, then it was mythics, now it's... both?), since increasing the number of packs sold is absolutely the bottom line for them. Planeswalkers were just something new to keep people interested.

I think I have quite a bit of faith in the Mark Rosewater/Aaron Forsythe/rest of the regulars team. They have demonstrated time anad again that they are without a doubt some of the most skilled game designers on the planet and have very adeptly been juggling huge competing demands from a social group largely lacking in social skills for years now.

I might not like some corporate decisions WotC makes, but as long as the design remains excellent (the occasional Tarmogoyf notwithstanding), I have confidence in the team that's in place.

Now, if there's ever a wholesale turnover at R&D, I will get nervous.

Anyway, if things do get lax, that will just create an opening for a new competitor. Though you can argue that the increasing price of all formats will create such an opening if it gets any worse.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: LaserBeing on March 18, 2010, 05:58:12 PM
"battlefield" and "exile"

are people really still bitching about this

really
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 18, 2010, 06:32:28 PM
Hell, that's nothing. People are still bitching about the border change.

Confession: I still like the old borders better, though that feeling is hardly strong enough for me to actually do much based on it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on March 18, 2010, 06:49:38 PM
On getting rid of older stuff. We have a once every 2 month draft or so called a rare draft. This guy has tons of rare junk cards so he makes one of these. You only draft rare cards but there is usually a really awesome pack at one of the tables chosen randomly. Last time I got a Moat out of it which was nifty. Usually the prize is something really decent like a mox or a power nine piece. The cost is 50 bucks to get in but your basically paying a dollar per rare which you could end up sitting at the lucky table filled with 25-50 dollar cards.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 18, 2010, 07:28:05 PM
"battlefield" and "exile"

are people really still bitching about this

really

Oh yes. I'm making it a point not to use cards M10 and beyond because I find the change so disagreeable. Heck, I don't even own anything from Alara block because I thought Mythic Rare was a ridiculous idea.

Hell, that's nothing. People are still bitching about the border change.

Confession: I still like the old borders better, though that feeling is hardly strong enough for me to actually do much based on it.

I'm with you. The only positive thing the border change seemed to accomplish was allowing more detailed art. The planeshifted cards from Planar Chaos looked way nicer.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 18, 2010, 08:08:00 PM
Eh, it's not such a big deal, though I hate those washed out colours.

They did a really nice job with the one-shot frames in Future Sight, the colourshifted cards in Planar Chaos, and the new Planeswalker frames. I wish they'd do more stuff like that.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 23, 2010, 07:04:51 PM
Sweet Jesus! (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103210&stc=1&d=1269384672)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on March 23, 2010, 07:12:02 PM
So, what is the environment like in terms of mana generators, these days?  I remember a time when Green could, with reasonable reliability, probably drop that much mana turn 6 or so.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on March 23, 2010, 07:15:41 PM
That's a cool card.

On the other hand, as they're all so fond of saying, "it dies to removal." But it seems like all the Eldrazi Titans have major "When you cast [this], [do some awesome effect normally only seen on overcosted blue cards]" triggers. What's neat about these is that triggering on their casting rather than their entering the battlefield as you'd usually see means the bonus still happens even if the card's countered. Although Emrakul dodges that possibility, too.

I expect a lot of blue-green Eldrazi decks. Blue for counters; green for mana acceleration and Summoning Trap.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 23, 2010, 07:23:14 PM
some awesome effect normally only seen on undercosted blue cards

Fixed.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on March 23, 2010, 07:28:45 PM
So, what is the environment like in terms of mana generators, these days?  I remember a time when Green could, with reasonable reliability, probably drop that much mana turn 6 or so.

Let's see....

There's Explore (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=201578), Omnath, Locus of Mana (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=197759), the Obelisks (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=174906), and the Borderposts (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=161276).

Also the cards in this Gatherer search: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&text=+[add]+[to]+[your]+[mana]&block=|[%22Zendikar%20Block%22]&type=+![%22Land%22] (like Lotus Cobra (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=185749))

Plus a bunch of cards I'm sure I'm overlooking, as well as any acceleration that Rise of the Eldrazi includes. It's supposed to have a bunch of cards that make Eldrazi Spawn (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102765&d=1268625870) tokens, which can be sacrificed to make mana.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on March 23, 2010, 07:33:41 PM
wait i'm confused

how does omnath help your mana production?  does "steps and phases" include turns too, so unspent green just hangs around forever until you spend it?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on March 23, 2010, 07:35:06 PM
Yep. It becomes a game of trying to spend your mana with maximum efficiency; I don't usually like playing with Omnath because I'm not good at timing my expenditures. But it has a lot of power, particularly when paired with the Lotus Cobra I linked above. Unfortunate that both cards are Mythic Rares (along with Eye of Ugin (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=197881), which is the third-most expensive card in Worldwake (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=5086861&postcount=708)), because that seems to lend credence to Büge's complaint. Mathematically, though, you're just as likely to open an individual Mythic Rare as you were to open an individual Rare in 10th Edition; the more utilitarian rares like the enemy fetchlands (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=190393) have gone down in price because they're 25% more common than they used to be.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on March 23, 2010, 08:20:35 PM
And just like that—the visual spoiler (http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/riseoftheeldrazi/spoiler) for Rise of the Eldrazi has eight new cards, confirming the speculated Level Up mechanic.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on March 23, 2010, 09:03:22 PM
christ on a crotch (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103210&stc=1&d=1269384672)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on March 23, 2010, 09:05:07 PM
That's a cool card.

On the other hand, as they're all so fond of saying, "it dies to removal." But it seems like all the Eldrazi Titans have major "When you cast [this], [do some awesome effect normally only seen on overcosted blue cards]" triggers. What's neat about these is that triggering on their casting rather than their entering the battlefield as you'd usually see means the bonus still happens even if the card's countered. Although Emrakul dodges that possibility, too.

I expect a lot of blue-green Eldrazi decks. Blue for counters; green for mana acceleration and Summoning Trap.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on March 23, 2010, 09:13:21 PM
that one doesn't die to removal. It has protection from colored spells. The only commonly played removal that can kill it is oblivion ring and journey to nowhere, and since you take an extra turn when you cast him you can attack with him for 15+ them sacrificing 6 things before they have a chance to cast any sorcery speed enchantments.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on March 23, 2010, 09:39:34 PM
Ah, but:

Quote from: http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/riseoftheeldrazi/mechanics
The Rise of the Eldrazi set also marks the debut of colorless instants and sorceries. Like their Eldrazi creators, these versatile spells can be put into almost any deck.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 24, 2010, 03:22:35 AM
Annnnnd the "coloured people" jokes are already sprouting on several MTG forums. Oh dear.

Also: Zara and Newbie just gave me the wierdest feeling of deja vu.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 24, 2010, 04:45:52 AM
Remember when ludicrously powered creatures had some drawback or weakness? Like it could get chump blocked or you had to keep feeding it islands or creatures or whatever?

 ::(:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 24, 2010, 07:26:09 AM
Then they realized that nobody ever played those, because they were terrible cards.

Then they decided they wanted more HUGE TIMMY creatures to be played.

:/
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on March 24, 2010, 09:31:02 AM
so the white level up creature requires 16 colorless mana to become a 4/4 flying with vigilance

the blue level up creature needs 7 blue mana to give you one extra turn after each other player's turn

 :whoops:

ok one is common and the other is mythic but still
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 24, 2010, 09:56:05 AM
"Level Up."

That's what we're going with.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 24, 2010, 10:12:10 AM
They're both terrible. The blue one is just less-bad enough that it may see casual play.

Barring acceleration, a blue player will be shelling out ALL of their potential mana on turns 1, 2, 3, 4 to get this guy operational. Or else he'll be part of some control deck.

The real problem is that level up is sorcery speed only. so it's use as a timely sink for extra mana is severely limited.

Also, while "It dies to removal" has normally been a fairly stupid argument as to why a creature is bad, the argument is somewhat more valid when speaking of a creature you spend a lot of time and resources investing in with no immediate payoff.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 24, 2010, 10:19:28 AM
Oh man, I gotta give 'em credit for this one:

(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/magicthegathering/da0e0bf00c8a382389fcbda5764b6676.jpg?v=104286)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on March 24, 2010, 11:44:03 AM
oh man that's awesome

"BEHOLD MY AWESOME 12/12... and you made it a defender. Awesome."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 24, 2010, 01:11:10 PM
I'M THE DEFENDER

A MUTANT BENDER

EDIT: I also love the idea of a Lovecraftian Elder God stuck on guard duty.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on March 24, 2010, 02:28:39 PM
Eh, it's a living.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 24, 2010, 05:29:41 PM
I just reread that Eldrazi thingy and it just has protection from coloured spells. It'll still die to a Nekrataal coming into play, or if you're kicking it old school, Merfolk Assassin + War Barge.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 24, 2010, 07:13:05 PM
You know, talking about all the crap going on in Magic these days is making me angry. I should just
































(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/buge/herpaderp/8802619.jpg)
Take it easy.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Beat Bandit on March 24, 2010, 07:24:01 PM
I really want to play magic again after people were talking about it today. I already have a shopping list for the deck I'd build.

This isn't good.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 24, 2010, 07:31:54 PM
Eh, it's a living.

Can you use that line if your status as a living being is in doubt?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on March 26, 2010, 09:11:37 PM
I'm going to spend so much money on this set.

(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r40/jsnlxndrlv/all-is-dust.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 27, 2010, 06:04:07 AM
Saw that.

Echo your sentiments.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on March 27, 2010, 10:45:29 AM
Wake me up when the all-bear block comes around.

Bearstorm
Bearpocalypse
Bear Judgement
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mothra on March 27, 2010, 10:57:19 AM
That card is MASSIVE

I keep picturing one guy eying the other's deck as this notebook-sized, quarter-inch thick face down card jutting out of the side of his library works its way ever closer to the top.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on March 27, 2010, 05:09:42 PM
Wake me up when the all-bear block comes around.

Bearstorm
Bearpocalypse
Bear Judgement

All is Bear
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on March 27, 2010, 05:11:20 PM
nevinyrral's bear
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Bongo Bill on March 27, 2010, 05:21:11 PM
Bearscape (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=30747)?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 27, 2010, 06:54:27 PM
Counterbear is so broken.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 28, 2010, 05:55:28 AM
(http://magiccards.info/scans/en/od/282.jpg)

Thread's over. We can all go home.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 31, 2010, 12:30:24 PM
(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103637&d=1270060994)

Quote
What the flying fuck
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on March 31, 2010, 12:40:38 PM
I guess they decided Hellbent didn't go far enough.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 31, 2010, 12:45:04 PM
six-six-six-six

*giggle*
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 31, 2010, 01:20:25 PM
I could see the potential use for Doomsday (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=15397). But this is just silly.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 31, 2010, 04:11:49 PM
Oh man! Speaking of Doomsday, I've seen more than fifty people say that they're a combo in under three hours (I realize you Buge are comparing the two, not saying they should be used in conjunction).

I mean I don't get how people can't think through a turn and a half:

1) Play Doomsday, stick this guy on top. Or maybe you have him in play already and then play Doomsday. Whatever.

2) Swing. Hopefully your opponent catches six to the facehole.

3) Oh boy! I play a bunch of shit I stacked! AWW YEAH! BIG TIMES!

4) Finish turn.

5) Opponent's turn. They do whatever.

6) You untap. HAHA YOU'RE GONNA GET IT!

7) OH WAIT I CAN'T DRAW. OH SHI- FUUUUUUUUUCK!

Yeah, there's soms stuff you could stack with comes-into-play abilities but nothing that makes this elaboarate car crash worth it. HAVE FUN WITH YOUR NON-BO, KIDS.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on March 31, 2010, 04:26:57 PM
mongrel the point is that you put 5 cards on top that win you the game when you play them. If this goes off your opponent never gets another turn.


Anyway I am totally roadtripping to houston over the weekend for the GP, anyone else going to be there?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 31, 2010, 04:36:39 PM
Yes, but that's not what the idiots I see going on about that setup are saying.

Also: that would still be an awful deck.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on March 31, 2010, 04:41:17 PM
How do cards like that interact with cards that have X costs?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on March 31, 2010, 04:45:01 PM
When you cast it you have to pay x.  If you diddnt pay anything for X. Then X is 0.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on March 31, 2010, 05:59:03 PM
Yeah, casting without paying costs preempts the whole "choose value > pay cost" sequence that X usually involves, so casting X spells without paying for them is usually a terrible bargain.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 31, 2010, 06:31:28 PM
Oh man! Speaking of Doomsday, I've seen more than fifty people say that they're a combo in under three hours (I realize you Buge are comparing the two, not saying they should be used in conjunction).

I mean I don't get how people can't think through a turn and a half:

1) Play Doomsday, stick this guy on top. Or maybe you have him in play already and then play Doomsday. Whatever.

2) Swing. Hopefully your opponent catches six to the facehole.

3) Oh boy! I play a bunch of shit I stacked! AWW YEAH! BIG TIMES!


Hmmmmm

(http://www.extensiveenterprisesonline.com/OnlineStore/images/tcgs/mtg/5dn/endless_whispers.jpg)
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/readers/2009/03/12/leveler_1.jpg)
(http://www.extensiveenterprisesonline.com/OnlineStore/images/tcgs/mtg/csp/fury_of_the_horde.jpg)

gg
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 31, 2010, 06:34:07 PM
Ctrl + Shift + R for gas-o-line  :whoops:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on March 31, 2010, 06:40:15 PM
so uh how is the squirrel part of the combo
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on April 18, 2010, 03:51:54 PM
(http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/tcg/products/riseoftheeldrazi/rdfgh8rvhs/EN/0011_MTGROE_EN_LR.jpg)

This

This means "cards that have been exiled", right

not "pull out the suitcase"
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on April 18, 2010, 04:07:05 PM
The card let's you get cards from "outside the game," which has been ruled to include your card collection (in casual games), your sideboard (in tournament games), and the removed-from-the-game zone. That's no longer the case. Exiled cards are not outside the game
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 18, 2010, 05:14:34 PM
Another reason RFG is better.

so uh how is the squirrel part of the combo

Whoops, that was supposed to go in an Earthcraft/Intruder Alarm deck.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on April 18, 2010, 05:19:53 PM
Oh man! Speaking of Doomsday, I've seen more than fifty people say that they're a combo in under three hours (I realize you Buge are comparing the two, not saying they should be used in conjunction).

I mean I don't get how people can't think through a turn and a half:

1) Play Doomsday, stick this guy on top. Or maybe you have him in play already and then play Doomsday. Whatever.

2) Swing. Hopefully your opponent catches six to the facehole.

3) Oh boy! I play a bunch of shit I stacked! AWW YEAH! BIG TIMES!

(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=45397&type=card)
(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=45397&type=card)
(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=45397&type=card)
(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=45397&type=card)
(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=135262&type=card)
(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=135262&type=card)

WHUP 50 DAMAGE AND I CAN DRAW NEXT TURN AWESOME
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 10, 2010, 04:01:00 PM
God, I love buying stupid foreign cards:

(http://magiccards.info/scans/de/roe/4.jpg)

(http://magiccards.info/scans/de/roe/6.jpg)

(http://magiccards.info/scans/de/wwk/31.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: LaserBeing on May 10, 2010, 05:14:38 PM
Gedankenformers, more than meets the eye
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 10, 2010, 06:41:37 PM
I love the sheer number of Z's on Emrakul
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 11, 2010, 08:26:59 AM
Is EDH dead already? Every deck I see posted online is some kind of tutor-heavy speed-killer. I thought the format was developed as a way to make slow, fun decks that were made for casual games, not another Type 2.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on May 11, 2010, 08:37:11 AM
Tourneyfags ruin everything.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 11, 2010, 08:46:30 AM
If EDH wasn't dead before, it sure as hell is after Rise of the Eldrazi. or at least took a pasting as a fun format.

Our local group (which is very good people, including the 2008 national champion.) to a man immediately put all the big eldrazi into their EDH decks and then on the very same night took them all out, realizing just how badly they ruined the format.

Not in the sense that they broke anything - someone playing an Eldrazi becomes an INSTANT target - but because they're just no fun at all.

As if that wasn't enough, the huge number of big powerful cards clearly intended for EDH (Cast through Time, Baneful Omen, etc. etc.) are also just stupid.

When I heard that Tom LaPille (a major MTG designer and noted fan of EDH) was casually calling this "The EDH Set", I knew it was going to be bad.

EDH is the kind of format that can only suffer for having cards specifically designed for it.


Oh hey:

In other "MTG is goddamn lunatic retardedness" news, we now regularly have Type II/Standard cards that are breaking the $40-50 mark and one that just dinged $70 this past weekend (with it looking to go up further).

The funny thing is that is not the actual cost that bugs me so much as it is the Social Darwinist crowd continuing the same old refrain that's always been bounced about over expensive cards that hey, "you gotta pay to play, son."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on May 11, 2010, 09:03:16 AM
The thing is, people will pay those prices.  If they're paying it to their local hobby games store, I'm okay with it.  If they're buying it online, that's where I start to get frowny.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on May 11, 2010, 09:52:48 AM
The "mythic rares aren't going to be NEEDED for a competitive deck" spiel lasted what, one set?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 11, 2010, 10:16:24 AM
As far as supporting local stores go, WotC has a number of policies in place to support brick-and-mortar stores as best as they're able. Not that that has stopped the recent explosion of online retailers, but short of active subsidies of a retail sector that's not exactly known for sound management, there's not much more they can do.

I mean, I have no problem with the economic arguments or anything else like that. I understand the basics of supply and demand. The price is what it is and I've paid such prices myself on any number of occasions. And as much as I don't like it, I fully understand why Wizards has an official policy that quite literally pretends the secondary market doesn't exist.

What I think is silly about the whole thing is for everyone with any stake in a healthy game to ignore a few things:

1) MTG is a game targeted - at least at entry level - to an age group not known for having an unlimited income. trying to decide what cards "should" be worth may be an idiot's game, but there does come a price point beyond which the game suffers massive depopulation. Type 1/Vintage has already suffered this fate. The player base was demolished and while the cards maintain their last known values, those values are absolutely flat and have been for years.

2) When considering the problem from the standpoint of economics, or even just basic common sense, there is no problem with prices. The market will bear what it bears. If not, it will self-correct, etc. However, this ignores the huge emotional component to the game. If the game begins to be "seen" by a substantial portion of the player base as "too expensive" (an incredibly subjective term), you will see that market correction. Unfortunately, for this to occur, it will have been preceded by a player exodus not seen since Darksteel's Affinity fiasco.

3) Type II/Standard was created to address issues with acquiring cards for competitive play. it's the whole reason the format even exists. It was the reason that Magic became the first collectible game to ever introduce set rotation or segregated formats. Yet we are coming perilously close to a point of "unavailable at any price.". Maybe leaving card prices to naturally balance themselves is fine in most formats, but there has to be at least one format left as an affordable hook for new players.

I don't sit here and harrumph about these things based on anecdotal or personal dislikes. There are a number of writers I follow who carefully gather large amounts of raw data that show that this is damaging the game's long-term viability. In spite of record numbers of new players, Tournament attendance is dropping (or is static at best). The greatest fear here is that these new players will have soured on a game whose cost to play has risen in real average terms by almost 50% over the past two years.

One other interesting point: Since the higher prices are all attached to Mythic rares, one of the facts  that keeps getting touted as a benefit of the new higher prices is the decreased cost of regular rares. It's now a fact that a regular rare will rarely ever break $5 and for the most part is worth only $1 or less. However, a number of people have crunched the numbers and calculated that it now costs around 20% more to get a "playset of everything" in sets of equal sizes than it did prior to the existence of Mythic rares.

This may seem like more complaining again about natural market forces (which is dumb). But the real issue is trading. It's now almost impossible for a scrubby (or even competent) player to trade cards up, since the values of cards are separated by such a giant gulf and the middle is occupied by some kind of economic no-man's land. This used to be a common complaint about older formats, but now it's happening with current in print sets.

Make no mistake. From WotC's point of view attendance is up and they are selling product at volumes they've never before reached. The current system represents an unparalleled success for them. Nor do I think the game will die off, even if it takes a hit. However, I DO think this is extremely damaging to the market in the long run.

Over the past seventeen years, I've seen the rise in the cost to play MTG consistently exceed inflation. Like any good company, WotC is searching for their saturation point. However, the tradeoff has been that players now play the game for shorter and shorter periods (on average) than they did many years ago. Most new players last for maybe two years at most, when for a long while it was 3-4. I don't know that this will mean DOOM AND GLOOM. But there exists a theoretical tipping point that I'd really prefer WotC didn't flirt with quite so badly.

:tldr: WotC is stoopid. Nothing new there.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 11, 2010, 10:23:42 AM
The "mythic rares aren't going to be NEEDED for a competitive deck" spiel lasted what, one set?

I didn't believe that line for even one set. Not that I thought that WotC was necessarily lying, but that it was massively unsustainable to have fifteen dead "timmy only" cards every set. That would have been ridiculous. It was like promising that all the uncommons or commons would have been bad.

Starr even pointed out that they really painted themselves in a corner on this one. By definition, Planeswalkers are only printed at Mythic rare, but they lead MTG's branding efforts and from a pure mechanical standpoint, they're a relatively new card type that only comes out rarely. By definition they are big splashy cards - it was a sheer impossibility for them to all be bad or to only have very narrow uses.

Oh and the next block is almost a lock to have a colourless planeswalker.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 11, 2010, 10:40:34 AM
:tldr: WotC is stoopid. Nothing new there.

Future Sight was more on the nose (http://www.magiccards.info/query?q=!tarmogoyf) than anyone could have guessed.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kashan on May 11, 2010, 07:26:29 PM
I actually think it's kind of clever. The only epic cards that have sustained high costs are blue or white control cards, and people fucking hate playing against blue white control.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 12, 2010, 02:59:33 AM
Well, they gutted the shit out of classic control in Type II and people had been whining about that since Lorwyn Block rotated (or, in some cases, since Counterspell rotated).

Then they printed Jace.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 19, 2010, 05:00:56 AM
At least one of you ought to find this funny. (http://goodgamery.com/index.php/2010/05/18/premium-schemes/)



Archenemy looks terrible to play (boringly-designed cards and a format that can only lead to tears? Don't Sign me up!), but the cards are very pretty.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on May 19, 2010, 07:08:10 AM
I kept planning to buy Planechase, and suddenly they're doing this. Now I doubt I'll buy either!

The "mythic rares aren't going to be NEEDED for a competitive deck" spiel lasted what, one set?

I didn't believe that line for even one set. Not that I thought that WotC was necessarily lying, but that it was massively unsustainable to have fifteen dead "timmy only" cards every set. That would have been ridiculous. It was like promising that all the uncommons or commons would have been bad.

This was never the line, though. When Rosewater initially talked (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr334) about mythic rares, he made three assertions:
1. Mythic rares should feel special;
2. They won't just be a list of the best cards in the set, and
3. They won't be utility cards like removal or dual lands.

While they've mostly failed on the first count, I think they've mostly succeeded on the second one—with the exception of Worldwake, because Jace's power and desirability completely obviates discussion of the rest of the set. But they never claimed there wouldn't be powerful, tournament-level cards in mythic rare, nor did they even claim that there would never be mythic rares certain decks would need as a four-of.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on May 19, 2010, 07:11:34 AM
well then I was under the wrongful assumption wizards had scruples
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 19, 2010, 07:22:21 AM
I quite like Planechase. With a large group of players playing EDH, that is. I find the added ridiculous randomness helps to keep the format "honest", if you get my meaning.

Archenemy just looks like crap. Poorly thought-out crap that'll lead to nasty arguments.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 19, 2010, 08:06:17 AM
Archenemy? What the f...?

Quote
one google search later

Ohhhhhh. It's a raid deck.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on May 28, 2010, 12:29:52 AM
So I've got a choice of running Vengevine Naya or Mono Black control. Both were pretty ok against jund though I think Naya might be the better route. Opinions?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 28, 2010, 03:15:41 AM
GP DC says Vengevine Naya is the way to go.

Though, I'll warn you that the most recent tourney results show that nothing has really changed in standard. The best two decks BY FAR are still Jund (best versions are the 'poopypants Jund' running 2-3 Sarkhan the Locos... yes Sarkhan) and Blue-White control (plainswalker control. Some run a red splash for Ajani V and a handful of other red cards). 

Mono Black isn't even charting, be it control or Vampires. Red Deck wins is a solid tier 2 but is definitely inferior to the top decks.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on May 28, 2010, 09:15:28 AM
I cannot wait till jund is out of the format. Vengevine Naya takes me a bit of thinking power at least.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 29, 2010, 08:49:36 AM
Oh it's official now. I want absolutely nothing to do with Archenemy. It's like a Magic product created by Stan Lee.

Exhibit A (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=243615)
Exhibit B (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=246172)
Exhibit C (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=246236)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on May 29, 2010, 09:17:40 AM
#1 - What's the dumbest idea you ever had?
#2 - 15/15 for ?
#1 - Make it dumber
#2 - Give it protection from removal and counter?
#1 - DUMBER!
#2 - Add Timewalk?
#1 - DAMN IT MAN, I SAID DUMB!! DUMB !!!
#2 - It destroys everything when it attacks.... And wait, I have a friend who plays mill decks... I want to beat him too.
#1 - Excellent!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 29, 2010, 09:35:15 AM
Oh yeah, I loved that. That's the only funny sig on those cesspit boards.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Bongo Bill on May 29, 2010, 05:35:56 PM
Oh it's official now. I want absolutely nothing to do with Archenemy. It's like a Magic product created by Stan Lee.

Exhibit A (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=243615)
Exhibit B (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=246172)
Exhibit C (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=246236)
What the hell is a "Scheme"?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on May 29, 2010, 05:40:26 PM
if you're familiar with raids in the wow tcg it's just like that.

Basically it's a multiplayer format where one player is the supervillain and the players are trying to take them down. To make it a more interesting battle, the archenemy gets a deck of scheme cards and draws and plays one each of their turns.  These cards all have different large effects.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on May 29, 2010, 05:46:04 PM
That sounds like it could be extremely fun.  I don't know that I like if "double health plus Scheme deck" is enough of an advantage for the Mastermind, though.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Bongo Bill on May 29, 2010, 05:51:33 PM
if you're familiar with raids in the wow tcg it's just like that.

No.

Basically it's a multiplayer format where one player is the supervillain and the players are trying to take them down. To make it a more interesting battle, the archenemy gets a deck of scheme cards and draws and plays one each of their turns.  These cards all have different large effects.

Oh, cool.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 31, 2010, 07:44:22 AM
Talking Time has an MTG* thread up.  (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showthread.php?t=9936)They don't seem as... animated as we do about it.
*Yes I know, it's not the only CCG out there, but it may as well be
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on May 31, 2010, 06:51:19 PM
I liked MTG right up until 2010. The rule changes that included doing away with mana burn were a real turn off, and now apparently cards level up and there are cards that just destroy everything? No thanks.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kashan on May 31, 2010, 07:06:24 PM
I liked MTG right up until 2010. The rule changes that included doing away with mana burn were a real turn off, and now apparently cards level up and there are cards that just destroy everything? No thanks.

Because Figure of destiny and Nevrylyns Disk are also totally antithetical to real magic.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on May 31, 2010, 07:28:48 PM
I liked MTG right up until 2010. The rule changes that included doing away with mana burn were a real turn off, and now apparently cards level up and there are cards that just destroy everything? No thanks.

Because Figure of destiny and Nevrylyns Disk are also totally antithetical to real magic.

you forgot to mention that almost no one ever gave a shit about manaburn
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on May 31, 2010, 07:35:32 PM
Manaburn was always important in the games I had, because my friend liked to play Braid of Fire without anywhere to dump the excess mana.

Edit: also the fact that there have always been cards that destroy everything in play totally makes my point null and void! Thanks for pointing that out. And anyway I was talking about the annihilator mechanic from the Eldrazi expansion, which basically turns every card with it into a cheap Rakdos the Defiler.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 31, 2010, 08:12:31 PM
I liked MTG right up until 2010. The rule changes that included doing away with mana burn were a real turn off, and now apparently cards level up and there are cards that just destroy everything? No thanks.

Because Figure of destiny and Nevinyrral's Disk are also totally antithetical to real magic.

you forgot to mention that almost no one ever gave a shit about manaburn

I did. It made you have to think twice about using anything that produced more than one mana. Sure you can go first-turn Dark Ritual -> Black Knight. It'll cost you though. It also made sense from a flavour perspective. Mana is tricky stuff. Used irresponsibly, it can backfire.

It's 'Larry Niven' spelled backwards.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 31, 2010, 08:16:33 PM
But then again, apparently manaburn isn't 'fun.' The way land destruction isn't 'fun,' or discard isn't 'fun,' or blue isn't 'fun.'
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on May 31, 2010, 09:57:26 PM
The explanation given was that, in ten years of Magic history, the number of decks that used mana burn in any good or evil way was roughly zero, while without mana burn they've managed to spit some interesting cards like

(http://pzportal.net/main/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Near-Death-Experience.jpg)

An example of how useless mana burn was: Has it -ever- been a good move to give your enemy mana?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on June 01, 2010, 02:21:58 AM
Mana burn was never really about "let's give my opponent mana!" It was simply a limit to stop people from doing things like playing Braid of Fire early on and having nowhere to put all the excess mana. It was a balancing thing.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 01, 2010, 03:06:10 AM
I don't really mind that they killed manaburn, and I fully understand the reasoning behind removing it, but I did have a deck that gave opponents lots of mana that was tough to use and sometimes killed through manaburn. The rules changes pretty much killed that deck forever. The rules changes did have an impact, though that impact is negligible on the game as a whole.

(a Null Brooch-Ensnaring Bridge-Cursed Scroll deck fuelled by Eladamri's Vineyard and Magus of the Vineyard)

Frankly, I'm a lot more worried about the skyrocketing cost of Standard, but eh.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kashan on June 01, 2010, 03:41:00 AM
Damage not going on the stack makes a huge difference in limited and was by far the biggest change from the recent revamp, but I'm guessing nobody here played that so it's probably not relevant.

I can actually see the argument against dropping manaburn, but only if the argument is flavor based. If "manaburn balanced braid of fire" is your argument for keeping manaburn then I'm not really sure how to approach the conversation. The very fact that annihilator can be put in terms of another card shows that the idea isn't foreign to magic. Also the fact that the card you discussed is significantly cheaper than any of the cards with annihilator in Eldrazi.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 01, 2010, 04:52:57 AM
I'm not sure what you meant by "I'm guessing nobody here played that", because damage on the stack was the rule for ten years and I'm pretty sure that everyone who played with post 6th ed rules was playing it that way, unless they were in some time-warp house where it was 1994 forever (I suppose that's far from impossible when it comes to certain types of gamers).

But you're correct that that was a much more significant change.

I understand why they did it: Because tough choices usually breeds more interesting gameplay, rather than simply giving people their cake and letting them eat it too. But I'm not sure it was worth the cost. For one thing the rules were more fluid and elegant when damages used the stack. Separating the damage to it's own step is a bit of an awkward regression. And sometimes if something ain't broke... don't fix it? I never heard of a single person who was calling for that change OUTSIDE of Wizards.

Anyway, we move on and learn to live with it. Etcetera, etcetera.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 01, 2010, 05:45:01 AM
tough choices usually breeds more interesting gameplay,

(http://medievalyfantasia.com/uploads/cartas-magic/sets-basicos/edicion-revised/cartas-rojas/mana-flare-carta-magic.jpg)
(http://toyaju.net/shop3/p_image/TE/Tempest-EladamrisVineyard.jpg)
(http://flame.tiefighter.org/~sphinx/weatherlight/Lotus_Vale.jpg)
(http://www.extensiveenterprisesonline.com/OnlineStore/images/tcgs/mtg/pcy/citadel_of_pain.jpg)
(http://www.halfpricehobbies.com/catalog/images/well_of_discovery.jpg)


they sure do
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 01, 2010, 06:54:11 AM
The thing is, that's a comparatively small number of cards, few of which saw play. WotC saw those as 'acceptable losses' (I'm not agreeing or disagreeing - just explaining their logic).

Commenting on a couple specific cards from that list:

- Lotus Vale already gives you a rough time, because it makes you incredibly vulnerable to Land Destruction. Since you can choose the colour of mana, it was very rare that you'd actually take mana burn from the Vale.
- Mana Flare/Green Mana Flare from Kamigawa block were also similarly easy to work around, unless you were suddenly warped to a multiplayer game from 1994 where there were like 7 manaflares on the table. More importantly, Mana Flare/Springtimewhatever have always been a sorta skill-testing cards in the sense that your opponent will always get the first opportunity to make full use of them. That's the real tradeoff in those cards, rather than the dangers of manaburn.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on June 01, 2010, 01:28:15 PM
Damage not going on the stack makes a huge difference in limited and was by far the biggest change from the recent revamp, but I'm guessing nobody here played that so it's probably not relevant.

I can actually see the argument against dropping manaburn, but only if the argument is flavor based. If "manaburn balanced braid of fire" is your argument for keeping manaburn then I'm not really sure how to approach the conversation. The very fact that annihilator can be put in terms of another card shows that the idea isn't foreign to magic. Also the fact that the card you discussed is significantly cheaper than any of the cards with annihilator in Eldrazi.

The idea isn't foreign, no. But it wasn't as widespread in the past. Now any fool can build a deck around this mechanic (see also: pre-built decks that come in boxes, whatever the official name for those is). Rakdos is no longer a fearsome beast because this new mechanic puts him to shame. The only real balance here is that annihilator cards cost more, but don't the Eldrazi have heralds that negate the cost or something to that effect?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 01, 2010, 02:39:21 PM
No, they're just really expensive. There are dorks that make some mana, but that's mana that you could use for anything, so it doesn't specifically enable Eldrazi. There's no need to ramp to 15 mana, if ramping to 8 and dropping Iona Sheild of Emeria (or some other game-breaking card) will win you the game just as well.

Mostly the Eldrazi are played as 1-2 ofs in oddball decks, unless they're being cheated out (sneak attack, polymorph, etc.).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on June 01, 2010, 03:07:04 PM
I haven't looked too closely at the new cards, to be honest. I've just heard things that I don't like. Leveling up is Yu-Gi-Oh! shit. It doesn't help that the only person I could ever get to play this game with me has decided I'm the World's Biggest Douchebag Forever(tm), so I don't get to test the new expansions when they come out (and also I don't have the money to invest in a game that nobody plays).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Darth on June 01, 2010, 03:10:42 PM
(*waves* Hi I'm new)

As much as I miss mana burn I agree that taking damage off the stack is by far the bigger change (and a very detrimental at that). I can think of at least a few dozen decks that relied on damage stack mind fuckery that are now dead, sure it didn't make sense within the mythos, but why should that matter, it was fun damn it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on June 01, 2010, 03:28:14 PM
By the way, I wasn't just saying that mana burn needs to come back. I dislike most of what I read about the rule changes that included doing away with mana burn.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 01, 2010, 04:06:11 PM
I guess damage-on-the-stack wasn't 'fun' either.

It really gets my
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_M0VD6T6f0QE/SYGcxpSMrbI/AAAAAAAAAdw/nWULNzyca_E/s320/Token+Goat.jpg) that the R&D team gutted mechanics to make the game more accessible. There was nothing wrong with damage-on-the-stack. But I'm guessing that it seemed like some kind of exploit to some newb thinking that his RuneclawGrizzly Bears were safe when they blocked a Mogg Fanatic. But you know, there are thresholds of skill for any game. I didn't know pawns in Chess could go "en passant" until I got to high school. But I didn't complain. I adjusted my strategy. I don't see how damage-on-the-stack is any different.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kashan on June 01, 2010, 04:48:33 PM
Well the big place that damage on the stack made a difference was limited. It was rare for damage on the stack to matter in a tournament constructed game, but it was constantly important in limited.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 01, 2010, 05:22:28 PM
I haven't looked too closely at the new cards, to be honest.

This may or may not preserve your sanity. It will definitely preserve your wallet.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on June 01, 2010, 05:32:08 PM
New cards always seem more powerful than old cards. Yes, yes, old cards can be a little ridiculous at times (power 9, anyone?), but I mean in general. My half-assed ravnica decks beat the shit out of my cousin's Odyssey/whatever, and new decks would beat the shit out of mine. Especially planeswalkers. I understand why WotC does it (need to keep people buying the new expansions), but it keeps me from playing (that and the fact that nobody else around here plays, I mean) because I don't have that kind of dough.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 01, 2010, 05:42:06 PM
Well, part of that is that since Ravnica block there's been very deliberate power creep in creatures.

Creatures had basically become non-existent in eternal formats (Type 1, Legacy) and WotC very deliberately decided that they wanted to make creature combat more important again (also, because creatures and creature combat are "fun" and n00b-friendly). The jury's still out on whether they've gone too far. I don't think so yet, but they're really starting to push it. The power level is high enough that many top legacy decks are substantially creature-based.

Plainswalkers also represent power creep because they're a new permanent type. So the only older cards that can affect them are ones that specifically deal with any "permanent" (a pretty short list...). Since then, there's been more cards that could affect Plainswalkers in roundabout ways (hello Vampire Hexmage), because they've been incorporated into mainstream design so each set has to have some ways of dealing with them. This is also "okay" power creep, because it's more of a natural consequence of introducing a new card type. As plainswalkers get older, you'll find some of the oldest ones still have goo staying power. Garruk is easily one of the top five plainswalkers even now and Original Jace and Ajani have their uses. Even original Chandra and Lilliana see niche play in extended.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on June 01, 2010, 06:01:34 PM
I have original Jace and Lilliana. I love every rendition of Jace so far, but maybe that's just my affinity for blue. I think creatures should be more powerful than they were, but shit like annihilator is a little over the top, I think, no matter the cost of the creature. I thought Ravnica's creatures were just fine, but then I loved everything about Ravnica and wish there could be a Ravnica 2.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on June 01, 2010, 06:31:08 PM
I think standards really going to change once Jund is gone. Jund has been going for how long now? Almost 2 rotations?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 01, 2010, 06:52:00 PM
(http://www.cardhaus.com/images/newernie.JPG)

I pine for the days when Erhnam Djinn was a powerhouse.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on June 01, 2010, 07:23:55 PM
Büge reminds me of my hate for never finding a Beatdown Boxset.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Darth on June 01, 2010, 07:34:58 PM
(http://www.cardhaus.com/images/newernie.JPG)

I pine for the days when Erhnam Djinn was a powerhouse.
(http://www.distrimagic.com/images/20090406112416-Raging%20Goblin.JPG)
Was always partial to raging goblin myself.


Just picked up some rise of the eldzari (or however that's spelled) boosters to see what all the commotion's about, and I've gotta say it's got some good cards. Splinter twin, might of the masses, and the umbras I think are pretty cool. The cards that store mana are interesting if odd, but the big artifacts are fucking broken, and the leveling mechanics is just strange. I remember when world wake came out and I thought multi-kicker was bizarre, but that's taking it to the extreme. (if you kick it 8 times it's a 6/6 flying trampler)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 01, 2010, 07:50:32 PM
I have original Jace and Lilliana. I love every rendition of Jace so far, but maybe that's just my affinity for blue. I think creatures should be more powerful than they were, but shit like annihilator is a little over the top, I think, no matter the cost of the creature. I thought Ravnica's creatures were just fine, but then I loved everything about Ravnica and wish there could be a Ravnica 2.

I think annihilator is only ridiculous at numbers larger than two. Short of that it's not too hard to play around. It was basically only created to go on stupid crazy huge creatures, so in that sense it makes sense to be a dumb-as-hell over-the-top ability.

As a 'regular' ability it'd be terrible.

I think standards really going to change once Jund is gone. Jund has been going for how long now? Almost 2 rotations?

Prediction: Blue-White plainswalker control is the top dog without Jund. Green Eldrazi monument stompy is probably in there and *might* replace Jund and Boss Naya (both of which are gone with rotation) as the top aggro deck. Green-white ramp, Vampires, and Obligatory Generic Red Deck may all hang around, but Blue-White has good matchups against them for the most part. Plus whatever Scars of Mirrodin brings.

I pine for the days when Erhnam Djinn was a powerhouse.

I can't even count the number of once-cool creatures I have that were made functionally obsolescent in the past five years. Oh well, at least I found an excuse to put Hazezon Tamar into a theoretically Legacy deck (R/G/W 43 Land).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on June 01, 2010, 08:19:57 PM
So how about that Vanguard set.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 01, 2010, 08:25:55 PM
LOL

Wait... are you joking about the Archenemy or the original Vanguard?

If you actually meant the old set, man, I could care less for the most part, but I'd love to get my hands on this one:

(http://magiccards.info/extras/other/vanguard/selenia.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kashan on June 01, 2010, 09:06:18 PM
I'm really glad that they beefed up creatures personally, they needed it. Creatures have only recently attained balance with non-permanents.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on June 01, 2010, 09:17:59 PM
I actually own the vanguard set. A few of my buddies play vanguard based decks that we mess around with.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on June 01, 2010, 09:42:36 PM
I'm really glad that they beefed up creatures personally, they needed it. Creatures have only recently attained balance with non-permanents.

Creatures needed the buff, but not quite so big a buff as they got.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on June 01, 2010, 10:46:01 PM
Well, part of that is that since Ravnica block there's been very deliberate power creep in creatures.

Creatures had basically become non-existent in eternal formats (Type 1, Legacy) and WotC very deliberately decided that they wanted to make creature combat more important again (also, because creatures and creature combat are "fun" and n00b-friendly). The jury's still out on whether they've gone too far. I don't think so yet, but they're really starting to push it. The power level is high enough that many top legacy decks are substantially creature-based.

Plainswalkers also represent power creep because they're a new permanent type. So the only older cards that can affect them are ones that specifically deal with any "permanent" (a pretty short list...). Since then, there's been more cards that could affect Plainswalkers in roundabout ways (hello Vampire Hexmage), because they've been incorporated into mainstream design so each set has to have some ways of dealing with them. This is also "okay" power creep, because it's more of a natural consequence of introducing a new card type. As plainswalkers get older, you'll find some of the oldest ones still have goo staying power. Garruk is easily one of the top five plainswalkers even now and Original Jace and Ajani have their uses. Even original Chandra and Lilliana see niche play in extended.

Mongrel's analysis here is on-the-money, with the exception of the "power creep" planeswalkers represent. Here are some of the first 200 cards I ever got that can deal with a planeswalker:

-Serra Angel
-Counterspell
-Soul Burn
-Lava Burst
-Desert Twister

Planeswalkers have a surprising number of weaknesses: they can be destroyed by attacking creatures, they count as permanents (and spells as they're being cast), and they can be damaged by any burn spell that can hit an opponent—plus, they can kill themselves. Hell, Sarkhan the Mad (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=193659) is almost guaranteed to. It's something they share with creatures: they're a complicated type of permanent with many ways they can be eliminated.

I agree that creatures are getting ridiculous—but they have to because of limited. When WotC realized that limited was the meat and potatoes of their income, they realized they needed limited to be healthy. The quality of a limited environment depends on many things, but one of the major elements is the balance between creatures and removal. Every color needs access to removal of some kind, and they've consistently gotten it since around Planar Chaos and Future Sight. Sure, blue and green typically get crappy enchantments to neutralize evasive or dangerous creatures, but even that's an order of magnitude greater than the stuff they got in the old days. Personally, I can't wait for white to stop getting increasingly convoluted remakes of Sword to Plowshares—if WotC won't let 2-mana counterspells get too powerful, I don't understand why they love 1-mana kill spells so much. But the point remains: there are so many answers to creatures, and they're not about to stop making them. Gotta keep those draft games flowing, and Gray Ogre gridlock doesn't contribute to that.

Creatures have always died at the drop of a hat, though; the hats are just getting more frequent. The only way to make a high-risk investment worthwhile is to give it the potential to pay off big. Wizards has been trying different ways to do that with varying levels of success; Tarmogoyf overshot the mark, but a lot of cards that would have been over the curve in other environments (Talara's Battalion, Uril the Miststalker, etc.) can't stand up in the same environment as faeries or cascade.

This is one of the reasons I'm really hoping stuff like Archenemy and Planechase take off and make a lot of money: if they aren't as dependent on limited for their bottom line, they can afford to take more risks with the environment—like maybe cutting back on the emphasis on creatures and removal and let other kinds of interactions have some space to breathe.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 04, 2010, 05:47:26 AM
In case anyone here cares, Walletslayer Angel has been confirmed as a reprint in M11.

Of course the price would have dropped regardless of whether or not it would be reprinted (either supply gets a big jump, or demand drops like a rock... win-win?), so I guess it doesn't matter too much.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 04, 2010, 05:58:09 AM
Does that mean those with baneslayers should unload them now before the price/demand drops?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 04, 2010, 06:05:40 AM
Only if you don't want to hang onto them to use. Otherwise might as well just keep what you've got? I suppose you can turn a small profit by listing now and re-purchasing them later, but that assumes you have a relative guarantee of sale price and don't care about the hassle of a sale or not being able to use them for about 2-4 months.

I'm sure that now that the news has broken, prices will drop very soon, if they haven't already. Though they'll far more once the set's actually been released and the supply comes online.

A quick check on ebay shows new Buy-It-Nows at $42 (down from a brief peak of $50 - prices have been in the $40+ neighbourhood for a while). Auction prices should be roughly 10% south of that. I'd expect it to drop maybe another 10-20% before the set comes out, down to maybe $30-$25 after the first print run comes out, and possibly as low as $20 after the second print run releases additional supply.

...

Now if only I could analyse stocks like this.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on June 13, 2010, 04:31:56 PM
Okay.

Despite my better judgement, I'm thinking about getting back in to this after an over-ten year hiatus.

What sets are currently in-cycle, and what should I know about what is to come?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 13, 2010, 04:53:52 PM
So... you're going to get in when the cost of standard is at an all-time high?

I mean, honestly my first instinct is "No! bad McDohl! Don't make me get the rolled up newspaper!"

Uh, well, if you really feel partial to self-abuse, the current type-2-legal sets are:

Shard Block
- Shards of Alara
- Confllux
- Alara Reborn

Current Core Set
- Magic M10

Zendikar Block
- Zendikar
- Worldwake
- Rise of the Eldrazi

Some notes:

Alara block and M10 are due to rotate VERY SOON 1-4 months, depending on set). Don't buy any M10 at all. You're better off waiting for M11, due to be released july 17th. Buy very little Alara block (if any at all), as it will rotate out of Standard in late September/early October.

Warning: most modern sets are now much closer to playing the lottery than was formerly the case. Sets now contain a fourth rarity, called 'Mythic rare', which replaces the regular rare in 2-4 slots per box. This has massively depressed the prices for regular rares (recent sets haven't seen more than a few rares even break $5-6), while ensuring the good mythic rares (bad ones are still worthless) are worth $40-$80. Each.   

For obtaining useful and playable cards, I would recommend buying M11 and Zendikar. M10 was actually a very well-made set, with some very good rares. If you don't care so much about getting cards that may be rotating out, then M10 is still an excellent way to spend your money. Some of M11 has been spoiled already (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=246260), and it features many good solid cards being reprinted from M10 (http://magiccards.info/m10/en.html) (the non basic lands, the big-money marquee card from M10, etc.), so it's not like everything you'll open will be useless by any means. Zendikar has fetchlands, and plenty of good playable cards at all rarities. Worldwake and Rise of the Eldrazi are much more of a crapshoot, though Rise of the Eldrazi is at least fun to draft.

You can drop some money on older packs if you just want to open some different stuff, or don't care so much about Type 2/Standard (same format), or any number of other valid reasons.

Oh and don't trade anything without getting to know values first. You can be ripped off for a hundred dollars faster than you can say "An in-print Magic card is worth WHAT?!"
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on June 13, 2010, 04:56:42 PM
Yeah, I was discussing some of that at the store today, and my jaw dropped at some of the stuff like Planeswalkers.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 13, 2010, 05:12:25 PM
Yeah, if you can hold on for another week or two (wait for the rest of M11 to be spoiled), I can give you a boilerplate opinion on which Core Set is the better buy.

Do you care about cards being Type 2 legal or do you just want to fill up some stock of cardboard and open fun/useful stuff without worrying too much about format?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on June 13, 2010, 05:23:09 PM
Well, I'd like to be able to participate in the FNM events that are going on, so, in that respect, I'm up for Type 2.

Of course, I want a little wiggle room to use some of these other cards I have inherited.  A whole stash of Mirrodin/Kamigawa stuff.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 13, 2010, 06:49:50 PM
Shed a tear for your wallet.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 13, 2010, 06:51:29 PM
Also, look into Elder Dragon Highlander. (http://www.dragonhighlander.net/rules.php)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 13, 2010, 07:47:05 PM
Listen to Buge.

EDH is basically THE casual format these days and it can be very inexpensive. Not "Well I can't afford good cards so I'll play a tier 3 'budget' deck", but actually inexpensive. Many decks (especially monocoloured ones) have few valuable cards. Really, it can be as pricey or cheap as you want it to be.

For a good list of EDH decks to peruse, check here (http://forum.dragonhighlander.net/EDH_Forum/viewforum.php?f=16&sid=7f4a5088490d93bebec0d5264d650d1a) or here (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/forumdisplay.php?f=377) to start.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on June 14, 2010, 12:23:14 AM
There's a lot of debate right now about whether the fall's big expansion Scars of Mirrodin is the start of another Artifact Theme block or not. When the story ended the last time we were on Mirrodin, all of the non-artifact creatures had been removed from the plane, so it would make a lot of sense—particularly since the second or third set in the block is named New Phyrexia, and Phyrexians have always had affinity strong association with artifacts.

On the other hand, R&D has said that, when they finally return to non-Dominarian planes for a block's setting, they aren't going to use the same theme again. A return to Mirrodin and Ravnica are basically inevitable, but the implication has always been that the blocks in question would have a greater focus on artifacts or two-color cards than usual, but that the primary theme would lie elsewhere. The idea that most intrigued me was the notion that the Victorian-style graveyard-themed block that Future Sight hinted at was actually suggesting what post-guild Ravnica might be like. As for Scars of Mirrodin, I'm holding out hope that we're about to see Alternate Win Conditions block, and the Phyrexian oil that got left behind last time around manifests mechanically with the return of poison counters.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on June 18, 2010, 06:41:48 PM
:goodnews:

One of the guys at FNM handed me a box full of Zendikar and Eldrazi commons and uncommons and said "Take what you want, just give me the boxes back.

I now have a stack of cards about 10 inches high on my desk.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on June 18, 2010, 06:43:02 PM
Oh, and Archenemy seems like a fantastic multiplayer format, I guess, provided you rotated around who is the Big Bad.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 21, 2010, 09:33:52 AM
Archenemy + Planechase + Elder Dragon Highlander = :hurr: :wakka: :8V: :scanners:

Also: What techniques should I learn to draft well?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on June 21, 2010, 10:05:17 AM
Figured it'd be good to ask here. Anyone else got the Duel of the Planeswalkers (http://store.steampowered.com/app/49400/) off of steam? Been playing with it a bit, and it's actually pretty decent. You only get a few pre-built decks, but they're a lot of fun.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on June 21, 2010, 10:42:58 AM
You only need the blue deck.  madmaxjr on steam.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on June 21, 2010, 11:48:51 AM
Last night, I played three games of Archenemy.  We misinterpreted I Bask in Your Silent Awe (Each opponent cant' cast more than one spell per turn, and is abandoned when no opponent casts a spell.) to mean that the archenemy can only cast one as well.  Hurpdederp.  In any case, we let the effect stay so he couldn't whip out any more evil effects.  The three times we played, the archenemy won twice.  When I had the Scheme Deck, I ended up with a 21/21 Scute Mob (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=180455).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on June 21, 2010, 12:02:21 PM
Is this that MTG videogame where you have to buy cards with real money, or something?  I remember hearing something about something like that.

If not, I'm not entirely sure how it's preferable to something like Apprentice or OctGN.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on June 21, 2010, 12:10:44 PM
That's MTG:Online that charges for online cards. Duel of the Planeswalkers is a game of Magic where you play through a 'campaign' to unlock lots of different kinds of decks. Then playing them can unlock more cards for that deck. For example, I have a blue-black-artifact one called "Relics of doom" that has 15 unlockable cards - winning a game unlocks a new card until I've unlocked them all. There's around 10? Decks or so for the game ranging from overrun to a fun/stupid Deck-out-your-enemy blue/white.

It also includes some extremely challenging scenario modes. "You are in X situation, there is one way to solve it, find it".

There's also 3/4 way fights and 2 headed ogre modes. All in all it's pretty fun - I'd like to see them include custom deck support in the engine some day, but I doubt it'll ever happen.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on June 21, 2010, 12:35:22 PM
I'd like to see them include custom deck support in the engine some day, but I doubt it'll ever happen.

If fucking Xenosaga can do it, I don't see why DOTP can't—if only for the subset of implemented cards, at least.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kazz on June 21, 2010, 01:50:56 PM
prebuilt decks = fail
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on June 21, 2010, 02:12:50 PM
yeah give me shandalar any day
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Bongo Bill on June 21, 2010, 03:52:13 PM
The perfect card game video game was, of course, the Pokemon Trading Card Game video game. Wizards of the Coast knows and fears that if a Magic equivalent existed, they'd be out zillions of dollars.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 21, 2010, 08:26:35 PM
yeah give me shandalar any day

Now I have to reinstall it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on June 21, 2010, 08:29:36 PM
I remember Shandalar.  Good game.  Nearly unplayable and so readily broken once you do but still fun.

I seem to remember making a deck entirely out of swamps, dark rituals, and hypnotic spectres.  it kind of trivialized everything.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 22, 2010, 03:00:50 AM
My friend was playing Shandalar a long time back and basically experimented until he was able to get a combo deck going that gave him a 100% first turn win (pared down combo deck with piles of timetwisters, lotuses, contract from belows, etc. with underworld dreams or drain lifes as the kill). He kept breaking the game by using it, having the screen go haywire or crashing. It was pretty awesome.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 25, 2010, 08:45:51 AM
According to Oracle rulings, Illusionary Mask (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=617) makes morph creatures.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on June 25, 2010, 07:08:00 PM
Didn't win very many games at FNM, but I did get to dickpunch Jace six times.  I'm not kidding.  Dudes kept bringing him out, and by the end of it, I just bemused expression, giant growth-d a Llanowar Elf, and punched him.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on June 25, 2010, 07:33:18 PM
Magic 2011 is bringing back Mana Leak, apparently. Blue players everywhere are soiling themselves with glee.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 25, 2010, 07:35:19 PM
On first glance M11 looks just as good as M10. But the more I look closely at the cards, the more I think it's as good for Standard/Type 2, but worse from the point of view of older formats.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 26, 2010, 06:18:33 AM
it's as good for Standard/Type 2, but worse from the point of view of older formats.

Whaaaat? Wizards of The Coast putting all their eggs in one basket??? Impossible!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 26, 2010, 07:54:04 AM
Well, it's not THAT much worse.

And we've seen less than half the rares yet anyway, so this could still turn out to be outright better than M10.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on June 26, 2010, 07:58:59 PM
Apparently, M11 rules inserts make specific mention of poison as a win condition (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=252280). This is the first real evidence that poison actually appears in Scars of Mirrodin. I was kind of hoping I could skip this block; I was on a six-year hiatus the last time the game visited Mirrodin, none of the mechanics interested me, and the setting almost matches Onslaught for how little I care. Poison, though: this is a mechanic that I'm really interested in them giving the Snow treatment, particularly if it's in the broader context of something like an alternate win conditions block.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 26, 2010, 08:59:39 PM
Welllll... deeper reading of that thread shows that the mention doesn't mean too much.

Y'see, the rules inserts also mention banding.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on June 26, 2010, 09:13:28 PM
Welllll... deeper reading of that thread shows that the mention doesn't mean too much.

Y'see, the rules inserts also mention banding.

If you read further, you'll see that they do not.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 27, 2010, 05:08:34 AM
Poison Pizza     BB2

Play Poison Pizza only if you have one or more poison counters.

Draw Five Cards. You gain three Poison counters.

"Oh no, I'm not making two stops."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 28, 2010, 05:36:25 AM
Oh deary deary me (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=252774)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 28, 2010, 06:00:43 AM
Quote
The two mythic rare Planeswalker cards feature brand-new art from Japanese manga artist Yoshino Himori,

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/Sigmaflare/1166424697869.gif)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 28, 2010, 07:03:23 AM
Now that M11's mythic rares have all been spoiled, I think that the set's close to M10, but that M10's bunch was slightly better.

M10 had Vampire Nocturnus, Master of the Wild Hunt. Also had some pretty solid reprints in Darksteel Colossus, Platinum Angel, Bogardan Hellkite, and Time Warp.

M11 has the Titans, two of which are good enough for constructed (Sun Titan and Grave Titan) and the new Timetwister (at 5 cc, I just don't think it's much good, but it may find a home as a 1-2 of in some Type 2 decks). 

Both sets have Baneslayer Angel and the five original planeswalkers (Baneslayer is easily the most important core set mythic, since the five original plainswalkers have been reprinted so many times they're now only a couple bucks each).



M11 doesn't seem bad so far, but since most of it's best cards are reprints I don't think I'll be picking up too much.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 28, 2010, 08:02:01 AM
M11 doesn't seem bad so far, but since most of it's best cards are reprints I don't think I'll be picking up too much.

So pretty much just like every core set up to M10. Which begs the question as to why they had to make so many new ones for M10 in the first place.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 28, 2010, 08:25:10 AM
To sell packs of course. :mahboi:

The show's not over yet though. We still have well over half the regular rares in M11 remaining to be spoiled. My M11 "stuff to buy" list is pretty damn short right now, but that's could change PDQ.

However, I am enormously relieved that the only chase Mythic rare is a reprint. Grave Titan and Sun Titan are solid cards, but I can't see them going crazy price wise. And one's the prerelease card anyway (Sun Titan).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mothra on June 28, 2010, 03:03:18 PM
I'm building a black and green bug deck, the idea being that I'd produce tons and tons of tiny 1/1 - 3/2 creatures to swarm with - all insect type - who I could apply racial boosts to. I've got all the standard producers and major insect types, but anyone have any suggestions on semi-affordable cards that buff all units of a certain type?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on June 28, 2010, 03:12:25 PM
Coat of arms (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=207927), for sure.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 28, 2010, 03:26:13 PM
Yep, your options pretty much begin and end there (unless you want to roll out lesser cards like  Door of Destinies (http://magiccards.info/query?q=door+of+destinies&v=card&s=cname)).

There's also stuff like Gaea's Anthem (http://magiccards.info/query?q=Gaea%27s+Anthem&v=card&s=cname), but I think it's purely the creature-type based stuff you're loooking for, correct? 3-4 Coat of Arms should be fine in a casual insect deck (plus it has some of the greatest flavour text anyway).

Oh and if you're going to consistently crank out 2-3 guys a turn, Eldrazi Monument (http://magiccards.info/query?q=eldrazi+monument&v=card&s=cname) is also a fun option.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on June 28, 2010, 03:30:03 PM
Eldrazi Monument sure would be good in my Sliver deck..

Kabbage: Are all your insects dirt cheap? If so, may I suggest Aluren (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=4747)?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mothra on June 28, 2010, 04:11:01 PM
Dear god that is a card?!

Between this and Door of Destinies I would have the most game-breaking deck ever! I-I would be as a god!!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 28, 2010, 04:36:17 PM
Don't forget the old Aluren-Recycle (http://magiccards.info/query?q=Recycle&v=card&s=cname) combo. :suave:

EDIT: Door of destinies really isn't as good as it looks. It's main problem is that a card like that pumps cheap guys who all come into play before the artifact that pumps them. But Door wants to be in play already for it to be any good. Either you stunt your early growth to hold guys for later when you should be playing them, or you play Door at the right time, but it winds up giving you very little board pump.

Also, it basically does nothing with tokens (since it depends on creature spells being cast).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on June 28, 2010, 04:56:58 PM
Also, it basically does nothing with tokens (since it depends on creature spells being cast).

Playing the pedant card here, but there's also Blades of Velis Vel (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=139480), Crib Swap (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=143380) (probably terrible in the scenario we're discussing), Ego Erasure (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=139692), Nameless Inversion (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=143388), Shields of Velis Vel (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=139411), and Wings of Velis Vel (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=139678).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 28, 2010, 05:47:59 PM
Why yes, that is pedantic! :imagination:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on June 28, 2010, 07:09:07 PM
I was trying to remember this set of cards back in exodus. It turns out there not bugs but they certainly do look like them. Spikes are pretty fun if you need anymore bug like creatures.

Edit: Chorus of the Conclave, I swore there was a green white that made doubles of your tokens though.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 28, 2010, 07:10:41 PM
Be sure to have a couple of these. (http://magiccards.info/query?q=beacon+of+creation&v=card&s=cname)

Hm, I imagine a lot of the same strategy would go into making a Green/Black fungus deck, which is something I've struggled with since Time Spiral brought back Thallids.

Don't forget the old Aluren-Recycle (http://magiccards.info/query?q=Recycle&v=card&s=cname) combo. :suave:

Don't you mean Aluren-Recycle-Fastbond (http://magiccards.info/query?q=fastbond&v=card&s=cname)?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 28, 2010, 07:22:35 PM
Quote from: MTG comp rules
Fastbond is banned in damn near everything except Vintage.

Only if he's playing Type 1.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 29, 2010, 05:25:14 AM
I'm pretty sure I recall it being legal back during Tempest.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 29, 2010, 07:39:54 AM
The thing is, most players won't get mad at someone using old cards in casual games. They might not be as okay with cards that are banned in almost every format.

Depends on the playgroup, I guess. It is true that the Type 1 banned & restricted list is also the default casual B&R list.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on June 29, 2010, 08:55:23 AM
I've been afraid of "anything you have goes" ever since cait used an affinity deck on me
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 29, 2010, 08:21:28 PM
M11 just got a whole lot better (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106820&d=1277870614)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on June 29, 2010, 10:25:28 PM
after Phylactery Lich: Wing Angel, Horn Minotaur and Water Mermaid
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 30, 2010, 06:24:27 AM
Horn Minotaur

Actually... (http://magiccards.info/hl/en/37.html)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 30, 2010, 06:32:16 AM
I think the funniest thing to me is that in French, the word "Phylacteres" refers to the dialogue balloons in comic books.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: François on June 30, 2010, 10:00:40 AM
(http://zedpower.dreamhosters.com/images/misc/lichebulle.png)

LE EDIT: (http://zedpower.dreamhosters.com/images/misc/bf_med.gif)Brothel! Still a broken chair! Is necessary that I find a means of making my pieces of furniture as immortal as me…(http://zedpower.dreamhosters.com/images/misc/bf_med2.gif)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on June 30, 2010, 10:07:56 AM
Um

That + Platinum Angel?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 30, 2010, 11:59:44 AM
Zed is my favourite poster in the history of everything anywhere.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 30, 2010, 09:24:57 PM
HOT (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106878&stc=1&d=1277957032). DAMN (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106877&stc=1&d=1277957022).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on June 30, 2010, 09:50:46 PM
HOT (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106878&stc=1&d=1277957032). DAMN (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106877&stc=1&d=1277957022).
:jizz:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on June 30, 2010, 11:32:36 PM
Leyline of Anticipation is excellent; rumor suggests it's a rare cycle.

Also, word has it that Scars of Mirrodin contains the Sword of Body and Mind, which is probably a blue/green version of the Sword of Fire and Ice (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=46429) and the Sword of Light and Shadow (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=47453). Expect the other two sets in the block to contain the Sword of Life and Death and the Sword of Order and Chaos.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on July 02, 2010, 08:20:36 PM
Nantuko Shade, Leyline of punishment. Hot damn to me.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on July 02, 2010, 08:27:08 PM
I won my first FNM match!  Did terrible in the overall standings, but I WON A ROUND!  WOO!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 02, 2010, 09:17:07 PM
Yeah, okay, there is a shitton of good stuff in M11.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on July 02, 2010, 10:38:42 PM
Yeah, okay, there is a shitton of good stuff in M11.
I wasnt going to buy a box. I kept telling my self that I was only going to buy the birds. (One of the only things I dont have a 4 set of?) Now I kind of want to. Also I got my FNM textless foil lightning bolt.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f216/Ninjabredman01/lightningbolt_TXL.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on July 09, 2010, 03:22:32 AM
Combust-Kill target Baneslayer Angel.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on July 09, 2010, 07:56:02 AM
I want a textless lightning bolt.

But I think I'll be getting one when Wizards gets around to sending me my permanent DCI card.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on July 09, 2010, 09:21:46 AM
There's a pre-release booster draft event tonight at midnight at my local card store with the prize being a box of the new set boosters.

Considering it, but I doubt I'd stay awake. I'm getting too old for this.
::(:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 09, 2010, 01:29:46 PM
Heck, I was considering going for the one tomorrow... but that would mean stepping into the den of iniquity I worked so hard to claw my way out of.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on July 10, 2010, 06:43:57 PM
The comic store ran our pre-release events today.

First pack I opened in the sealed deck event: Ajani Goldmane.

<Me> Well, I guess I'm playing white today.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on July 16, 2010, 07:20:49 PM
Picked up my booster box tonight.

Among my neat finds:

Platinum Angel (Won me 4 games in the booster draft tournament!)

Demon of Death's Gate (Not really a fan of black, but this is a BEEFY card.)

Birds of Paradise (Pulled one from boosters, got a holographic one for buying the box!)

Chandra (Or, as I like to call her, Katie Kaboom.)
Katie Kaboom's Explosive Rage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3ivT5M9irI#ws)

Another Ajani Goldmane. 

Overwhelming Stampede (The new Overrun)

Protean Hydra (Gonna need some Mana acceleration if I'm gonna get him to work right...)

Liliana Vess (She seems cool, but again, I don't really play too much black.  Might start, what with this vomit creatures from the graveyard ability.)

Last pack I opened...

Walletslayer Angel. :perfect:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 16, 2010, 08:22:02 PM
Got our two boxes (entirely in non-english languages as usual). While we got some decent stuff (including FOUR garruks... WTF? Hey, at least he's still worth $18-$10, no complaints), the highlight was actually pulling a Liche aux phylactères.

It wasn't the most valuable thing we pulled but it is :perfect: :perfect: :perfect: :perfect: :perfect:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on July 16, 2010, 10:16:31 PM
Any baneslayers or nantukos?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on July 16, 2010, 11:25:08 PM
I just threw together a silly deck of mono-red direct damage with my new Chandra.  Lightning Bolts, Fireballs, Chandra's Outrage, Prodigal Pyromancers...Fire Servants to double the damage, Pyroclasm to deal with their creatures, Chandra's Spitfires, and when I've dealt damage with the spitfires, or they've been blocked, I can Fling them for 4 damage.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 17, 2010, 06:48:59 AM
Any baneslayers or nantukos?

Got one Nantuko. Starr and I already have our playsets (all foreign languages even) going way back to Torment, so any we open are free tradebait (as are the four Garruks). No Walletslayers (was hoping to open a Russian one... we have German Spanish, Portugese, and French ones already... Russian angels are :luv:), but we did get a Fauna Shaman, Grave Titan, Primeval Titan, the Garruks, and only a couple of the trashy mythics (I think we got a Lilliana and a Demon of Death's Outhouse as our 'mostly worthless' mythics).

We may buy a little bit more, probably mostly Russian, since we did get Spanish & French M10, but no Russian and we want to try for Russian Honor of the Pure and Russian Baneslayers.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 17, 2010, 04:16:34 PM
Picked up a third box* worth of various packs today (the store we go to gives us box price on 36 packs, even if don't buy a sealed box, so we can play mix n' match with the foreign packs). Didn't get a Russian walletslayer, but we did open another French one (and our first from M11), as well as our first Sun Titan and a Russian Honor of the Pure (which I did want quite a bit). Got a few other things to flog, another Natuko Shade etc.

Probably buy another handful of packs in a day or two and call it a day. Like M10 this is a GREAT set for rebuilding our hobo soup kitchen trade binder through addict-level pack-cracking (as opposed to say Worldwake packs, which are more like Powerball tickets).

*Three boxes sounds like a lot, but since both Starr and I are buying, it's really like a box and a half each (giving us each a playset of the set's commons and most of a playset of most uncommons). We typically buy between a box and a half and 3 boxes per set, depending on how much we like that set.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 17, 2010, 05:37:58 PM
hobo soup kitchen trade binder
:wat:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 17, 2010, 07:33:06 PM
One that lacks anything besides empty pages and a handful of awful ten-cent rares.

Basically, a trade binder with nothing worth trading for in it.

EDIT: "hobo soup kitchen trade binder" isn't some kind of MTG expression or anything. I just made it up in that post.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 17, 2010, 08:14:47 PM
Basically, a trade binder with nothing worth trading for in it.

So, my binder.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kayma on July 18, 2010, 10:09:22 AM
I bought a Fat Pack that had two Grave Titans in it. I can't say I'm not impressed.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on July 18, 2010, 10:30:21 AM
Here's a stab at a semi-serious Standard deck.  Red/White/Blue Allies.  I know I can take out the Angels for either more allies or more hard control such as Mana Leak.  I might change it in to a blue/white mill/pound deck with Jace's Erasure and Ajani's Pridemate.

Cancel x4
Halimar Excavator x3
Hada Freeblade x4
Soul's Attendant x3
Ajani Goldmane x2
Talus Paladin x1
Journey to Nowhere x3
Join The Ranks x4
Highland Berserker x2
Akoum Battlesinger x3
Lightning Bolt x3
Platinum Angel x2
Prophetic Prism x3
Island x6
Plains x7
Mountain x7
Glacial Fortress x2
Celestial Colonnade x1

I know it's pretty eclectic, but I'm looking for ways to streamline it.  I can't decide if I want to do lifegain or allied beatdowns.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 18, 2010, 10:39:00 AM
Red/White/Blue Allies.

Coalition of the Willing?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on July 18, 2010, 10:57:50 AM
What?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 18, 2010, 12:01:43 PM
You know, because Red White and Blue are the colours of America? And you're using "allies?"

Allies of America? Like what they sent in to Iraq? And Bush called it a 'Coalition of the Willing'...?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on July 18, 2010, 12:14:38 PM
...It's really sad when a damn foreigner knows more about your country than you. 

I love you Buge.


Anyway, back on topic:


I need Juwari Shapeshifters for my proposed mill deck if I want to take it to just blue/red.  Hada Freeblade, Join the Ranks, Halimar Excavators, and Juwari Shapeshifters.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 18, 2010, 01:21:54 PM
Best ally colours are G/W/U 

Key Allies are:

G
 
Harabaz Druid
Oran-Reef Survivalist
Turntimber Ranger

W

Kazandu Blademaster
Hada Freeblade
Talus Paladin
Kabira Evangel (maybe)

U

Jwari Shapeshifter
Sea Gate Oracle (maybe)

Also, to hell with Cancel, Mana Leak's back in M11. Baneslayers are a better, faster finisher than platinum angels if you can get them, but even if they're out of your reach for now, there's still more appropriate cards to play to help your deck: oblivion ring, condemn, path to exile, various plainswalkers - especially the regular Jace Beleren (that's the $3-$5 Jace, not the $80 Jace), etc. etc.

If you want to keep the Mill theme, and only go partial allies, go for Hedron Crab, Archive Trap, etc.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on July 18, 2010, 02:00:27 PM
Yeah, I'd like to, but my trade binder's kinda lacking, and will be for a while yet, although I did get a few keen rares that can help.

I already have one Archive Trap, and yes, I would like more.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 18, 2010, 02:09:12 PM
Well, 12 posts above is my current recommendation for improving a trade binder. :slow:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 18, 2010, 04:20:07 PM
Last trickle of packs was pretty decent. Sweet fuck all in three packs of French or Spanish, but the only three Chinese packs we've purchased this set had Voltaic Key, new Maze, Fauna Shaman, and Walletslayer. O___O  A dozen Russian packs also nabbed us a second Grave Titan (ffffuck yeah).

Didn't really expect to get a Russian Baneslayer, but I'm kinda pissed that we didn't open a single copy of the white leyline in ANY foreign language. Oh well we did really well other than that, so NO COMPLAINTS.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on July 22, 2010, 06:09:09 PM
From the Vaults: Relics contains an artifact that previews Scars of Mirrodin. Not sure about the exact wording, but this is basically it:

Quote
Sword of Body and Mind - 3
Artifact - Equipment
Equipped creature gets +2/+2 and has protection from blue and from green.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, that player puts the top ten cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard, then put a 2/2 green wolf creature token onto the battlefield
Equip 2
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 22, 2010, 06:33:25 PM
They deciphered that tiny, burry image? Hm.

Anyways.

That's... pretty fucking retarded.

And by 'retarded' I don't mean 'amazingly good'.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on July 22, 2010, 06:34:45 PM
Well it does do two of the things blue and green are known for. Milling, and putting out weak tokens.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 22, 2010, 06:42:41 PM
Yeah, I think people were hoping for something just a little more in line with the SoFI and SoLS.

The biggest problem is that yeah, equipment is repeatable, but 5, 6, 7 mana for casting + attaching is still a lot. Like even the Sword of Vengeance from M11 seems really good at first, but is just a little too weak. Tournament playable equipment (other than Skullclamp, which was really just a broken combo piece rather than normal pimp-yo'-creechaz equipment per se) can be counted on the fingers of a blind carpenter: Jitte, SoFI, and MAYBE SoLS and Behemoth Sledge (the latter two saw some standard play).

EDIT: By the by, Starr got six weeaboo packs yesterday and opened us another Primeaval Titan. *Thrusting gestures*
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on July 22, 2010, 06:44:21 PM
What about Basilisk Collar.


Edit: I hope to god we never see another Jitte/Skullclamp honestly.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 22, 2010, 06:45:12 PM
What about Basilisk Collar.

Well, it was short-lived, but yeah, there's that too. Point. Collar might crop up now and again.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on July 22, 2010, 06:47:24 PM
The problem with really good artifacts is balance. With colored artifacts it may make more sense, but considering that most artifacts can be played in any deck because it's colorless I think they are really trying to hold it down.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 22, 2010, 06:50:51 PM
The problem with really good artifacts is balance. With colored artifacts it may make more sense, but considering that most artifacts can be played in any deck because it's colorless I think they are really trying to hold it down.

They should have kept that in mind when making the Eldrazi.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on July 22, 2010, 06:52:57 PM
Never said Wizards was perfect.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on July 22, 2010, 07:11:29 PM
eldrazi are by no means overpowered
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on July 22, 2010, 07:33:36 PM
It looks like the Titans are seeing some PTQ play already. (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=34149) Damn this looks fun.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 22, 2010, 07:57:39 PM
Was that supposed to be a link to some decklists? Was it the Japanese PTQ where Primeaval Titan Valakut ramp blew out everyone and took six of the top eight slots (including 1st & 2nd)?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on July 22, 2010, 07:59:50 PM
Fixed and yeah it was. I linked the one by Tamada. I really like it because it reminds me of my first ever deck of turn lands into ddes and throw a big creature or two.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on July 23, 2010, 11:58:42 AM
Heading down to the card shop to play my first ever booster draft even though I've been playing magic for nearly a decade.

I've never actually played MTG in any official/serious capacity and been very loose about the rules. I have a feeling this mindset is going to screw me over.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 23, 2010, 12:09:45 PM
Yep.

That's okay. Just punch someone out if you really need to. I mean, MTG players aren't even real people anyway, so I'm pretty sure it doesn't count for legal whatevery.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on July 23, 2010, 12:13:05 PM
 :nyoro~n:"I cancel your Lightning that would have otherwise won you the game and attack you on my next turn to win the game."
 :rage:"CANCEL THIS"
 :pfff:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on July 23, 2010, 12:35:48 PM
Man, I don't know why everyone says "Fuck Cancel, Mana Leak's back".  I'd run both just to have Cancel on hand for when you absolutely, positively have to stop that Awakening Zone or Jace's Erasure or what have you.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on July 23, 2010, 06:25:53 PM
Funny story tonight:

I claim a Zendikar booster for my FNM prize tonight.  Buddy claims an M11.  The clerk gets the two of us mixed up, and neither of us check until after we notice the set symbols on the cards themselves.  I forget what he pulled out of the Zendikar pack, but I pull a Sun Titan.

Oh, no, that's not the end of this little tale.  The clerk says that since that happened, he cursed me to have poor packs, and ordered me to get another one to check and see if it actually took effect.

Serra Ascendant.  Merfolk Sovereign.  Destructive Force.  Sword of Vengeance.

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 23, 2010, 07:32:53 PM
So you go four rares in one booster? :wat:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on July 23, 2010, 08:00:13 PM
No.  I ended up buying four boosters from the guy before I said, "Look, dude.  You're obviously good luck to me, and I don't want to burn through it all."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on July 23, 2010, 10:56:42 PM
Here's what I've thrown together for a lifegain/beatdown deck with the cards I have.  Suggestions for replacements and sideboard are more than welcome.

Forest x9
Plains x9
Graypeld Refuge x2 (Lifegain land, would want to find more dual lands, such as the M11 or the GW Man Land to phase in to my mana sources)

CREATURES:
Llanowar Elves x3 (Mana Acceleration.  Whee.)
Ajani's Pridemate x4 (In the solitaire runs I've done, this guy seems to be my heavy hitter.  He grows at every instance of life gain.  A good candidate for the equipment and enchantments I have.)
Serra Ascendant x4 (Partially a distraction.  If I can get to swing with her, so much the better, and a great candidate for equipment, but probably not high on the priority to gear up.)
Soul's Attendant x 4 (Combos well with all the 1 and 2-cost creatures I have.  Gain 1 life when another creature enters the battlefield, including the opponent.  This is how Ajani's Pridemate can get STUPID.  Oh, what's that, Awakening Zone?)
Sun Titan x3 (The moneymaker.  Thanks to most of the other creatures and spells having casting cost 3 or lower, Titan can bring most of the permanents in this deck back from the graveyard.)

SORCERY/ENCHANTMENTS
Ajani Goldmane x2 (Ah, Ajani.  The lifegain is reason 1 why you're here.  And if I get to the point where Serra Ascendant can power up, I might as well bring in the Avatar token.
Ajani's Mantra x4 (2 cost for 1 life per turn?  Sure, if they come out early enough.)
Nature's Spiral x4 (...and this is how I get Ajani or the Titans back.  2 mana to bring a permanent from the graveyard back to the hand.)
Cultivate x4 (The other half of my mana acceleration.)
Snake Umbra x4 (This is, frankly, more dead weight than anything else, I'm starting to feel.  Just sort of oddball.  But it does generate a buffer to protect my creature investment, which is helpful on Pridemates.)
Leyline of Vitality x2 (A fairly good shot that I'll get free life for playing creatures right from the start of the game?  Sure.  This deck can definitely use more of these.

ARTIFACTS:
Sword of Vengeance x2 (For when you absolutely, positively have to hit the opponent.  Works well with Snake Umbra.)

Total: 60 cards

Now, for my own notes.  Basilisk Collar.  Need 'em.  I own two right now, but I don't want to strip out the Totem Armor right now.

So, what do you guys think?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 24, 2010, 06:04:41 AM
Needs more built-in lifelink. Ditch the Umbras and the spirals and get some collars (maybe 2x collar and 2x stoneforge mystic? Thought about that?) as well as another lifegain creature (course most of the best lifelink creatures right now are black). Actually, if you go that route, you can probably drop a sword of vengeance for a behemoth sledge and use the stoneforge mystics to just tutor up whichever equipment you need.

A copy or two of felidar sovereign might be good for laughs.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on July 24, 2010, 07:59:17 AM
Round 1: 0-2
Round 1: 2-0
Round 1: 0-2
Round 1: 1-2

All in all I drafted poorly. And I went for 60 cards total instead of 40. Lessons learned, however.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on July 24, 2010, 08:02:02 AM
What did you draft?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 24, 2010, 08:17:43 AM
I went for 60 cards total instead of 40.

:facepalm:

Please tell me you just meant you were thinking in terms of trying to build a 60-card deck, as opposed to actually building a 60-card draft deck.

And if you did, oh well.... lesson learned, as you said!

***

Also, regarding Primeval Titan.

I haven't been a huge fan of this card. To me it looks like a classic 'win-more' card (helps you only when you're already up, doesn't help when you're down). You hardly need such ridiculous ramping abilities once you can already comfortably generate 6 mana.

But the other day I overheard an interesting comment "It's the best green creature ever printed at 6 mana". I initially dismissed that as some cocky bullshit, sure that while the Titan might be okay for standard, that at some point in the past 17 years, a better green creature had been printed at 6. I mean, green is THE fatty colour - right?

Today, I recalled the comment, but this time I got curious: What is the best 6 mana green creature ever? So I decided to look it up. Turns out there aren't nearly as many 6 mana mono-green creatures as you'd think. Less than a hundred. More incredible was the fact that they are pretty much uniformly awful. I mean just plain fucking terrible.

The closest thing to really good 6-cost creature in green were both Onslaught-block cards: Kamahl, Fist of Krosa and Silvos, Rogue Elemental. One good with a weenie horde and one as a fat beater, but while both are solidly playable they're hardly broken. Looking at the list again, I realized the titan is a standout card, just for being a straight-up 6/6 trample for 6 (he is literally the only such green creature in Magic's history, I shit you not), which is kind of frightening. The broken land fetching is almost just gravy.

So, uh, I just bought two more today.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on July 24, 2010, 08:35:10 AM
Kamahl comes in one of the Archenemy decks.

I might make him my general for my EDH deck.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on July 24, 2010, 09:34:43 AM
Quote
actually building a 60-card draft deck.

I did.

Lesson learned for next time, however.

The concept of my deck was fine I guess (Blue/Black) - the 60 card thing fucked me.

The trip was worth it, though:
Foil M11 Platinum Angel. I can only imagine the demand for this thing once Scars of Mirrodin hits.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on July 24, 2010, 10:24:19 AM
Foil M11 Platinum Angel. I can only imagine the demand for this thing once Scars of Mirrodin hits.
Well plantinum angel has been reprinted so much that it's actually not worth that much anymore. A foil m11 one goes for about 5-7 bucks around here and a few of the original ones go for about 10-12 if you can even find them.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on July 24, 2010, 11:01:49 AM
Speaking of Scars, I have a play set of Voltaic Keys.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mothra on July 24, 2010, 11:14:13 AM
Picked up a pack today and got a Mitotic Slime (http://www.examiner.com/x-28353-Magic-the-Gathering-Examiner~y2010m6d28-Mitotic-Slime). This card is the business!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on July 24, 2010, 11:32:20 AM
Got him too. :D
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 24, 2010, 01:39:05 PM
My friend Nick showed me Duels of the Planeswalkers yesterday. It is a terrible game.

The computer automatically taps your mana, meaning that in certain situations, you can't do things in the order you want to. The interface is confusing and insulting. Every card that gets played drifts towards you for a close-up before getting put onto the table. Creature cards do this ridiculous 'sword swinging' (complete with a whoosh) every time they deal damage to something. You can unlock extra cards for the decks, but you can't take the preset cards out of them, so you're stuck with a bad mana base and junk cards.

About the only decent thing is a minigame that works like the old Magic: The Puzzling feature in The Duelist, where you have one turn to win the game (apparently one of the puzzles would actually have a more viable solution if the mana-tapping issue wasn't present).

What's more is that he tells me there are actually kids who claim to be good at Magic because they're good at DotP! It's sad that the MircroProse game was probably the purest expression of MTG in computer form.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 24, 2010, 02:45:54 PM
Robert Palmer - Simply Irresistible (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ-eisHzA84&feature=avmsc2#)
Does it sound like this does 0:54?




Manowar - The Power of Thy Sword (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Leo1DTmspx4#)
Or like this at 2:00?

:whoops:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 24, 2010, 03:19:43 PM
More like this, at 4:49

Korgoth of Barbaria - Part I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_t605Th-QI#)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 25, 2010, 07:10:44 AM
Further update on Primeval Titan: It just won Australian Nats.

Guess Green has it's fair share of retarded overpriced mythics, to go with Walletslayer/Jace now.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 25, 2010, 09:10:22 AM
My friend was showing me M11's Green cards. It looks like they're really starting to force Green's draftability with stuff like Hornet Sting and Plummet. Plummet makes sense. It's in-colour. Green hates flyers. Hornet Sting baffles me. Green has never had decent direct damage. It never needed it. It's already got beefy critters, mana-ramping, life gain, half-decent card draw and recursion.

Also, why are Soldiers and Zombies being pushed out of the way in favour of Knights and Vampires?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on July 25, 2010, 09:29:20 AM
Vampires can be lead to popularity of twilight, and knights you have me there. Zombies do need some love but they have quite the long list of cards. Perhaps they are trying to bring vampires up to the amount of zombies or maybe there is something story related.


Edit: On hornet sting. Wizards said in the 2010 article, that they weren't afraid to do things out of the color pie in a core set, if the flavor fit In this case, I think it does.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on July 25, 2010, 10:21:37 AM
I've never understood why you'd want a mechanic as fundamental as using a spell to deal damage to be exclusive to one color.  I really don't mind green getting cheap burn that's strictly worse than red's.

As for why knights and vampires are getting promoted over soldiers and zombies, I think it's because it's easier to relate to individuals than to armies. It doesn't hurt that there are a wider variety of familiar concepts attached to the former than the latter. Knights have the Arthurian legends, dragon-slaying, the Knights Templar and various other real-world analogs, and vampires have self-evident cultural cachet. In both cases, though, you only need one knight or vampire to justify a card. By comparison, soldiers and zombies are intensely identified with groups or organizations. A soldier's just a guy in an army, and a zombie is usually just one creature in a mob or horde.

But it's not like the game doesn't have room for all four types.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 25, 2010, 10:34:08 AM
Vampires can be lead to popularity of twilight, and knights you have me there. Zombies do need some love but they have quite the long list of cards. Perhaps they are trying to bring vampires up to the amount of zombies or maybe there is something story related.

Yeah, but Magic doesn't have any pretty-boy Vampires. The best we've got is Crispin Glover (http://magiccards.info/m11/en/87.html).

I've never understood why you'd want a mechanic as fundamental as using a spell to deal damage to be exclusive to one color.  I really don't mind green getting cheap burn that's strictly worse than red's.

I can dig nonred spells having conditional direct damage. Green's had direct damage before. (http://magiccards.info/mr/en/148.html) If Hornet Sting was sorcery speed, or targeted flying creatures only, I could understand it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on July 25, 2010, 10:40:26 AM
Captivating is the exact reason that made me think of twilight.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 25, 2010, 01:21:01 PM
Yeah, I think they're just exploring the "other colours get direct damage that is strictly worse than red's" just to see where they can bleed it a bit. Blue's had it a good bit in the past, usually on creatures, but also on a few direct spells. Green's just had a faint hint of it, but Hornet Sting really isn't a big deal, because the small amount of damage makes it a substandard card, even if you think the cost-for damage is fair (Lightning bolt says hi).

As for knights & vampires, well, you can make lengthy arguments about Twilight or whatever, but really, it's irrelevant if they're true. The main thing is that Knights have never really had a proper lord or a real deck to speak of, and Vampires have so many fewer cards than Zombies, it's ridiculous - there's no harm in letting vampires drive for a change.

Both tribes have been underrepresented for over fifteen years, so this is just a small amount of catch up. In the case of vampires, that's partially because Vampires had long been black's answer to Angels: Big splashy flying finishers, with strong abilities. It's only recently that they've tried to make some Vampires across the whole spectrum of costs (and since this means they tread a little more on Zombies' normal terrain - weenies, one tribe or the other will be the loser in a given set), which changes their role in the game. I think this is mostly because after a ten year hiatus, they felt it was okay to print Demons again, so they slowly took that 'huge finisher' role Vampires used to have. Vampires had to find a new role.

Knights and soldiers have coexisted for years, but while red's weenies were almost always goblins, and green's were usually elves, white's weenies were often split among many tribes. As a result red's and green's weenie pumpers were usually tribal, while white's were colour based. In red and green's case it meant elves and goblins were viable over a very large number of formats, because there were always plenty of cards in each tribe. White kept up by not relying on tribe (and also by having weenies that were always above the power curve, since that's one of white's things).

Black tended to lose out due to a disorganized strategy (wotc could never decide if black's weenies were supposed to be better or worse than other colours' weenies), and a lack of good enhancers (bad moon was dropped long before crusade ever was. And while white only got more global pumps, black got very few and they were pretty much awful). Blue was never a big weenie colour (merfolk were a neglected stepchild for years and years, but got some huge love after they came back). These days white's trying to be a little more tribal and black's trying to be a little more consistent. It's easier when trying to basically build a new tribe (which Vampires basically is, in terms of an actual entire deck), because they didn't have the same fan expectations as goblins or elves or even soldiers do. I suspect once they've defined vampires a little better, there'll be more zombie love because then they'll know how to divide up blacks abilities between the two.

Zombies and vampires will eventually look like a little more like knights vs soldiers: Some sets one's winning, another set, the other's winning. They'll average less cards each than goblins & elves, but eventually will have enough quality cards to build playable tribal-themed decks across multiple formats.

EDIT: One last note. Zombies were always problematic to design for, because while elves worked with each other or created mana, and goblins did funny stuff with each other, zombies' thing was that they were just bigger. Where you'd see a 1/1 goblin with a damage ability, you'd see a 1/1 elf with a mana ability, and a 2/2 zombie with no abilities. That made them dangerous (too good a pump effect and they automatically beat other weenies) AND boring (vanilla dorks). Zombies weren't so much a tribe as an excuse for black token generators to give 2/2s instead of 1/1s.

I think after years of not knowing what to do with zombies, WotC is beginning to get a handle on them, so that's another reason I think we'll probably see better zombies in future. For example, deathtouch is a great ability to give zombies as a pump (hi Death Baron!), because it's flavourful and makes them dangerous without having to include a power/toughness pump.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 25, 2010, 04:07:50 PM
As for knights & vampires, well, you can make lengthy arguments about Twilight or whatever, but really, it's irrelevant if they're true. The main thing is that Knights have never really had a proper lord or a real deck to speak of, and Vampires have so many fewer cards than Zombies, it's ridiculous - there's no harm in letting vampires drive for a change.

Sure there is. Vampires are your midrange guys, averaging above Zombies but below Demons. It makes thematic sense that you have a jillion zombies running around, because (a) they're the rank-and-file of black magic and (b) George A. Romero.



Both tribes have been underrepresented for over fifteen years, so this is just a small amount of catch up. In the case of vampires, that's partially because Vampires had long been black's answer to Angels: Big splashy flying finishers, with strong abilities. It's only recently that they've tried to make some Vampires across the whole spectrum of costs (and since this means they tread a little more on Zombies' normal terrain - weenies, one tribe or the other will be the loser in a given set), which changes their role in the game. I think this is mostly because after a ten year hiatus, they felt it was okay to print Demons again, so they slowly took that 'huge finisher' role Vampires used to have. Vampires had to find a new role.


I admit that Demons have traditionally been huge finishers, but they traditionally come with a drawback: life-loss, sacrificing creatures, discard, etc. Vampires didn't typically have drawbacks.


Knights and soldiers have coexisted for years, but while red's weenies were almost always goblins, and green's were usually elves, white's weenies were often split among many tribes. As a result red's and green's weenie pumpers were usually tribal, while white's were colour based. In red and green's case it meant elves and goblins were viable over a very large number of formats, because there were always plenty of cards in each tribe. White kept up by not relying on tribe (and also by having weenies that were always above the power curve, since that's one of white's things).


The main difference between Knights and Soldiers were their range of abilities. Soldiers start at a 1/1 vanilla critter and go up from that - again, this made thematic sense. You had your recruits and your veterans. Knights were usually 2/2 or thereabouts with some ability. You got the occasional oddball 'lord', but since knights were usually a solid creature, they didn't need a lord (ironic, considering historical knights).


Black tended to lose out due to a disorganized strategy (wotc could never decide if black's weenies were supposed to be better or worse than other colours' weenies), and a lack of good enhancers (bad moon was dropped long before crusade ever was. And while white only got more global pumps, black got very few and they were pretty much awful). Blue was never a big weenie colour (merfolk were a neglected stepchild for years and years, but got some huge love after they came back). These days white's trying to be a little more tribal and black's trying to be a little more consistent. It's easier when trying to basically build a new tribe (which Vampires basically is, in terms of an actual entire deck), because they didn't have the same fan expectations as goblins or elves or even soldiers do. I suspect once they've defined vampires a little better, there'll be more zombie love because then they'll know how to divide up blacks abilities between the two.


I think it's more that the in-colour tribes have definite roles: Skeletons regenerate, Zombies (like soldiers) are utility, Shades grow, Spectres make you discard, Vampires are midrange beats and Demons are unstable finishers. They probably thought things had gotten stale (which they have) and needed to shake it up. Unfortunately, it's a symptom of the larger issue of MTG itself becoming stale...


Zombies and vampires will eventually look like a little more like knights vs soldiers: Some sets one's winning, another set, the other's winning. They'll average less cards each than goblins & elves, but eventually will have enough quality cards to build playable tribal-themed decks across multiple formats.

EDIT: One last note. Zombies were always problematic to design for, because while elves worked with each other or created mana, and goblins did funny stuff with each other, zombies' thing was that they were just bigger. Where you'd see a 1/1 goblin with a damage ability, you'd see a 1/1 elf with a mana ability, and a 2/2 zombie with no abilities. That made them dangerous (too good a pump effect and they automatically beat other weenies) AND boring (vanilla dorks). Zombies weren't so much a tribe as an excuse for black token generators to give 2/2s instead of 1/1s.

I think after years of not knowing what to do with zombies, WotC is beginning to get a handle on them, so that's another reason I think we'll probably see better zombies in future. For example, deathtouch is a great ability to give zombies as a pump (hi Death Baron!), because it's flavourful and makes them dangerous without having to include a power/toughness pump.


 :tldr:
What worries me is that they're diluting the tribes. If I want to build a Zombie deck, I don't want flavour alone to be the reason to choose Zombies over Vampires.


Also, can anybody help me build a Zombie deck?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on July 25, 2010, 04:14:14 PM
Do you want pure mono black or something with multicolor?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 25, 2010, 04:16:17 PM
I've never considered multicolour. What are the options there?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on July 25, 2010, 04:18:02 PM
Black white zombie clerics is optional though you have to run some actual clerics with it I think.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: on July 25, 2010, 04:48:08 PM
My friend Nick showed me Duels of the Planeswalkers yesterday. It is a terrible game.

The computer automatically taps your mana, meaning that in certain situations, you can't do things in the order you want to. The interface is confusing and insulting. Every card that gets played drifts towards you for a close-up before getting put onto the table. Creature cards do this ridiculous 'sword swinging' (complete with a whoosh) every time they deal damage to something. You can unlock extra cards for the decks, but you can't take the preset cards out of them, so you're stuck with a bad mana base and junk cards.

About the only decent thing is a minigame that works like the old Magic: The Puzzling feature in The Duelist, where you have one turn to win the game (apparently one of the puzzles would actually have a more viable solution if the mana-tapping issue wasn't present).

What's more is that he tells me there are actually kids who claim to be good at Magic because they're good at DotP! It's sad that the MircroProse game was probably the purest expression of MTG in computer form.


For additional laughs/headaches, go look at the DLC for it on Steam.

[spoiler]It's all $1 'pay to unlock the deck immediately rather than get it in game' or 'pay $1 to make the whole deck foil[/spoiler]
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 25, 2010, 05:01:19 PM
The funniest part is that the decks don't actually have copies of the plainswalkers they're named for.

Then as a promotional tie-in, they said they'd be selling copies of the DotP decks, in real life. Priced at maybe $6-8. Now, those decks are just awful piles of crap yes, but hey, if you're buying "Nissa's deck", at least the box-face promo should be that plainswalker you never got to play with - right?

Nope. The're just utterly worthless piles of shit.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 25, 2010, 06:08:36 PM
It's so obvious. DotP is an ad for Magic. The load screens are all "Visit DailyMTG.com" and such. It dangles decent gameplay in front of you like a carrot. Makes you think you're hot stuff. Then you go down to your local game store and buy one of those terrible decks, totally unaware that your opponent is packing Superfriends.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 25, 2010, 06:56:15 PM
I just think it's pretty brutal they don't even let the dumb kids try a plainswalker. I mean the damn things are hard to get for a newcomer. Let 'em have the chance to road test a couple.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on July 26, 2010, 04:25:45 AM
I pulled Garruk yesterday.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on July 26, 2010, 02:28:02 PM
Oooh.  I figured out why I'd keep Totem armors in the deck: Day of Judgement.

Oh no, all creatures explode, except for the sun titan who survived with his guts!  I swing with Titan, and bring the Umbra back in to play on the Titan!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 26, 2010, 02:34:56 PM
He's a Titan, right?

That means he must have huge guts.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on July 26, 2010, 02:36:46 PM
and rip and tear as much as you like, he keeps regenerating those guts.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 28, 2010, 07:15:33 AM
Quote from: peppersprayed
So nearly every girl at the cardshop is running vampires and the reason is obvious <_<

So anyway I'm playing this girl in the finals and I brought in some masters of the wild hunt and one went unanswered long enough for me to just beat her to death with wolves.

Anyway her boyfriend walked over and asked who won and I said "apparently team Jacob" holy shit did she look pissed.

 :glee:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on July 28, 2010, 07:58:08 AM
I love how, despite its many problems, shandalar is better than duels of the planeswalkers in every way as far as putting single player magic on the computer. You get the excitement of building a deck and then smashing people with it, you get to actually play like you're a wizard going around fighting enemies instead of being stuck in a super lame interface, and you get to actually play magic at a reasonable speed.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 28, 2010, 08:35:34 AM
Quote from: peppersprayed
So nearly every girl at the cardshop is running vampires and the reason is obvious <_<

So anyway I'm playing this girl in the finals and I brought in some masters of the wild hunt and one went unanswered long enough for me to just beat her to death with wolves.

Anyway her boyfriend walked over and asked who won and I said "apparently team Jacob" holy shit did she look pissed.

 :glee:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/buge/reaction/nph.gif)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 01, 2010, 07:50:35 PM
EDH? EDH.

I threw this deck together today, just to have an Elder Dragon Highlander deck at the ready. Choosing a general is difficult. The general affects the entire theme of the deck (for me, at least)! I was thinking of making a Zur the Enchanter (http://magiccards.info/cs/en/135.html) deck, but then I remembered I'm not a complete jackass. So here's my decklist. Any suggestions are welcome.

General
Akroma, Angel Of Wrath (http://magiccards.info/tsts/en/1.html)

Host
Archangel (http://magiccards.info/vi/en/101.html)
Malach of the Dawn (http://magiccards.info/pc/en/24.html)
Blinding Angel (http://magiccards.info/ne/en/3.html)
Angel of Salvation (http://magiccards.info/fut/en/1.html)
Serra Angel (http://magiccards.info/9e/en/43.html)
Archon of Justice (http://magiccards.info/eve/en/1.html)
Pristine Angel (http://magiccards.info/ds/en/9.html)
Seraph (http://magiccards.info/ia/en/275.html)
Luminous Archangel (http://magiccards.info/mi/en/15.html)
Sustainer of the Realm (http://magiccards.info/7e/en/52.html)
Angelic Protector (http://magiccards.info/tp/en/214.html)

Troops
Icatian Priest (http://magiccards.info/fe/en/156.html)
Junktroller (http://magiccards.info/rav/en/264.html)
Conclave Phalanx (http://magiccards.info/rav/en/10.html)
Auriok Champion (http://magiccards.info/5dn/en/3.html)
Benalish Commander (http://magiccards.info/pc/en/2.html)
Preacher (http://magiccards.info/dk/en/89.html)
Aven Mindcensor (http://magiccards.info/fut/en/18.html)
Hand of Justice (http://magiccards.info/fe/en/142.html)
Oathsworn Giant (http://magiccards.info/rav/en/27.html)
Lost Auramancers (http://magiccards.info/fut/en/11.html)
Mobilization (http://magiccards.info/on/en/44.html)

Munitions
Empyrial Armor (http://magiccards.info/wl/en/129.html)
Deathrender (http://magiccards.info/lw/en/255.html)
Flickering Ward (http://magiccards.info/tp/en/231.html)
Angelic Voices (http://magiccards.info/ch/en/59.html)
Gauntlet of Power (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/255.html)
Serra's Embrace (http://magiccards.info/10e/en/40.html)
Glacial Plating (http://magiccards.info/cs/en/7.html)
Lightning Greaves (http://magiccards.info/mi/en/199.html)

Logistics
Three Dreams (http://magiccards.info/rav/en/32.html)
Spirit Loop (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/42.html)
Angelic Chorus (http://magiccards.info/10e/en/4.html)
Resurrection (http://magiccards.info/tsts/en/12.html)
Breath of Life (http://magiccards.info/7e/en/4.html)
Jayemdae Tome (http://magiccards.info/8e/en/306.html)
Land Tax (http://magiccards.info/4e/en/284.html)
Graceful Reprieve (http://magiccards.info/mt/en/11.html)
Darksteel Ingot (http://magiccards.info/ds/en/112.html)
Darksteel Pendant (http://magiccards.info/ds/en/113.html)
Candles of Leng (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/250.html)
Sol Ring (http://magiccards.info/rv/en/274.html)
(yeah, yeah, no Sensei's Divining Top (http://magiccards.info/chk/en/268.html). I only have one and it's in another deck.)

Security
Prison Term (http://magiccards.info/shm/en/18.html)
Kismet (http://magiccards.info/5e/en/319.html)
Pacifism (http://magiccards.info/10e/en/31.html)
Temporal Isolation (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/43.html)
Rule of Law (http://magiccards.info/10e/en/37.html)
Recumbent Bliss (http://magiccards.info/eve/en/13.html)
Faith's Fetters (http://magiccards.info/rav/en/16.html)
Bound in Silence (http://magiccards.info/fut/en/20.html)
Aura of Silence (http://magiccards.info/wl/en/123.html)
Detainment Spell (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/12.html)
Gelid Shackles (http://magiccards.info/cs/en/6.html)
Oblivion Ring (http://magiccards.info/lw/en/34.html)
Peace Talks (http://magiccards.info/vi/en/115.html)
Angel's Grace (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/3.html)
Reverse Damage (http://magiccards.info/4e/en/295.html)

Tactics
Gaze of Justice (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/20.html)
Reprisal (http://magiccards.info/ai/en/144.html)
Abeyance (http://magiccards.info/wl/en/117.html)
Reinforcements (http://magiccards.info/ai/en/142.html)
Swords to Plowshares (http://magiccards.info/4e/en/302.html)
Blinding Beam (http://magiccards.info/mi/en/7.html)
Change of Heart (http://magiccards.info/sh/en/103.html)
Crib Swap (http://magiccards.info/lw/en/11.html)

Theater
Plains x16
Snow-Covered Plains x14
Secluded Steppe (http://magiccards.info/on/en/324.html)
Kjeldoran Outpost (http://magiccards.info/ai/en/184.html)
Mistveil Plains (http://magiccards.info/shm/en/275.html)
Terramorphic Expanse (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/279.html)
Mouth of Ronom (http://magiccards.info/cs/en/148.html)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 02, 2010, 05:13:00 AM
Akroma makes for a neat general for cool points, but she's not that strong for two reasons: 1 - She's already expensive, so it's pretty hard to re-cast her (making for far less effective use of the general mechanic), especially given white's lack of mana-ramping, and 2 - She's a strong card on her own, but she doesn't really help out your deck.

The best generals I find are either the ones that act as a win condition (basically if your general is a win condition, you have that one piece of reliability you can build around) or a utility dork.

For win-condition You can go with a combo win-con, like say Maga, Traitor to Mortals, or a general abusive house, like Sharuum the Hegemon (card advantage abuse) or Uril the Miststalker (untargetable + broken combos).

For cheap enablers, you can try cards like Rofellos (mana), Zo-Zu the Punisher (EDH = tons of land drops), or Merike Ri Berit (general pain the ass). These generals aren't strong and will die easily, but can be played over and over and over for maximum advantange (and irritation).

In you deck, if you want to stick to the angel theme, you could go for a big winner like Akroma, Iona, Shield of Emeria, or Reya Dawnbringer but they can all be removed in large multi-player games and aren't straight-up win conditions. Iona and Akroma especially become weaker in larger games.

If you do really want a large angel as your general, Iona seems a better bet, since her ability extends beyond just protecting herself (and akroma's protection won't help you against decks with blue, green, or white removal anyway). She also has a larger body. The problem is of course, is that she'll be nearly impossible to re-cast if killed and your opponents can see her coming from a mile away. Reya can be worth a ton of card advantage if you get her going, but she's smaller than Iona, and has no self-defense at all.

If you want a cheaper enabler as a general, cards you might look at are Linvala, Keeper of Silence (messes with some opposing generals, as well as creatures in general), or possibly Jenara, Asura of War (cheap, pumpable, allows you to go multicolour if you want to go that route).

One more option is Radiant, Archangel. If you can build a flying-token spewing deck (with stuff like Mesa Pegasus, etc.) she can actually function as a win-condition by becoming gigantic. She's easy to deal with, but she's cheap enough to be re-played. More importantly, if you have the tokens to make her huge, your opponent will already have problems distracting him.

LATE EDIT: If you're willing to have a non-angel as your general, you have some other options. You could use Crovax, Ascendant Hero if people in your area like token or swarm decks and you want to be a dick.  Darien, King of Kjeldor is a funny choice for a soldier-themed deck (hmmmmm, maybe...), Mageta the Lion can get ridiculous if you have a card advantage engine set up, though that's pretty hard in mono-white. Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker, can give your opponent fits, though she's easy to kill.

***

In other news, anybody else notice that the price on Rise of Eldrazi cards have just plummeted? Vengevine's come back down under $30, Gideon's heading down to $25 and falling fast (might even drop to $20), Sarkhan Poopypants and Kargan Dragon lord are now back under $10, and everything else has basically gone into the crapper.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on August 02, 2010, 07:10:03 AM
fuck this shit, picking Gwendlyn Di Corci as my general every time
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 02, 2010, 07:11:48 AM
Starr has a deck with Gwendlyn as the general. She called it "99 Problems".

:nyah:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on August 02, 2010, 07:39:36 AM
Starr has a deck with Gwendlyn as the general. She called it "99 Problems".

 :approve:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 02, 2010, 10:17:24 AM
Well, it was a first try. I may go hunting for one of the new legendary Angels, depending on the price. I might even splash black so I can use Selenia, Dark Angel for my general.

Here's the other EDH deck I built.

General
Lyzolda, the Blood Witch (http://magiccards.info/di/en/117.html)

Cabal
Visara the Dreadful (http://magiccards.info/on/en/179.html)
Eron the Relentless (http://magiccards.info/tsts/en/61.html)
Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/106.html)
Ebon Praetor (http://magiccards.info/fe/en/11.html)

Slaves
Bone Shredder (http://magiccards.info/pvc/en/5.html)
Fulminator Mage (http://magiccards.info/shm/en/188.html)
Undead Gladiator (http://magiccards.info/on/en/178.html)
Vulshok Sorcerer (http://magiccards.info/5dn/en/80.html)
Eater of the Dead (http://magiccards.info/dk/en/6.html)
Kulrath Knight (http://magiccards.info/shm/en/190.html)
Mogg War Marshal (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/170.html)
Nantuko Husk (http://magiccards.info/on/en/159.html)
Deepfire Elemental (http://magiccards.info/cs/en/127.html)
Exhumer Thrull (http://magiccards.info/gp/en/50.html)
Rattleblaze Scarecrow (http://magiccards.info/shm/en/259.html)
Junktroller (http://magiccards.info/rav/en/264.html)
Foriysian Totem (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/254.html)
Nekrataal (http://magiccards.info/10e/en/163.html)
Disciple of Tevesh Szat (http://magiccards.info/cs/en/55.html)
Gravedigger (http://magiccards.info/10e/en/146.html)
Murderous Redcap (http://magiccards.info/shm/en/192.html)
Puppeteer Clique (http://magiccards.info/shm/en/75.html)
Rakdos Guildmage (http://magiccards.info/cp/en/3.html)
Keeper of the Flame (http://magiccards.info/ex/en/85.html)
Empty the Warrens (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/152.html)
Breeding Pit (http://magiccards.info/fe/en/9.html)

Divination
Demonic Tutor (http://magiccards.info/rv/en/13.html)
Phyrexian Arena (http://magiccards.info/ap/en/47.html)
Sensei's Divining Top (http://magiccards.info/chk/en/268.html)
Shrouded Lore (http://magiccards.info/pc/en/91.html)
Mirari (http://magiccards.info/tsts/en/112.html)
Reiterate (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/175.html)
Wheel of Fate (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/187.html)
Skulltap (http://magiccards.info/sc/en/73.html)

Necromancy
Disturbed Burial (http://magiccards.info/tp/en/23.html)
Torrent of Souls (http://magiccards.info/arc/en/96.html)
Zombify (http://magiccards.info/9e/en/171.html)
Revive the Fallen (http://magiccards.info/mt/en/76.html)
Soul Exchange (http://magiccards.info/fe/en/28.html)
No Rest for the Wicked (http://magiccards.info/10e/en/165.html)
Stir the Grave (http://magiccards.info/bok/en/85.html)
Lab Rats (http://magiccards.info/sh/en/11.html)

Boons
Unwilling Recruit (http://magiccards.info/eve/en/64.html)
Fists of the Demigod (http://magiccards.info/shm/en/187.html)
Blood Lust (http://magiccards.info/4e/en/196.html)
Loxodon Warhammer (http://magiccards.info/mi/en/201.html)
Crimson Wisps (http://magiccards.info/shm/en/88.html)
Heartstone (http://magiccards.info/pds/en/26.html)

Curses
Din of the Fireherd (http://magiccards.info/shm/en/184.html)
Risky Move (http://magiccards.info/on/en/223.html)
Dimir Machinations (http://magiccards.info/rav/en/84.html)
Jinxed Idol (http://magiccards.info/tp/en/283.html)
Demolish (http://magiccards.info/9e/en/179.html)
Flames of the Blood Hand (http://magiccards.info/bok/en/101.html)
Pillage (http://magiccards.info/ai/en/113.html)
Death Pulse (http://magiccards.info/on/en/137.html)
Curse of the Cabal (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/99.html)
Brainspoil (http://magiccards.info/rav/en/78.html)
Sudden Death (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/134.html)
Screams from Within (http://magiccards.info/ds/en/52.html)
Brush with Death (http://magiccards.info/sh/en/2.html)
Choking Sands (http://magiccards.info/mr/en/11.html)
Shred Memory (http://magiccards.info/rav/en/105.html)

Territory
Swamp x17
Mountain x9
Terramorphic Expanse (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/279.html)
Winding Canyons (http://magiccards.info/wl/en/167.html)
Forgotten Cave (http://magiccards.info/on/en/317.html)
Barren Moor (http://magiccards.info/on/en/312.html)
Bottomless Vault (http://magiccards.info/fe/en/177.html)
Kher Keep (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/275.html)
Vivid Crag (http://magiccards.info/lw/en/275.html)
Madblind Mountain (http://magiccards.info/shm/en/274.html)
Molten Slagheap (http://magiccards.info/ts/en/276.html)
Smouldering Crater (http://magiccards.info/us/en/328.html)
Rakdos Carnarium (http://magiccards.info/di/en/178.html)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 02, 2010, 10:36:47 AM
Could use a bit more focus on the token/fodder swarm, along with some pump. Cards the come to mind are Ascendant Evincar, Bad Moon (most of your creatures have black in their costs), Thrull Champion, Grave Titan (expen$ive at the moment, but he'd be a HOUSE in your deck), Bitterblossom (it's cheaper these days), Carrion, Skeletal Vampire (looks dumb, but is positively abusive with all the mana EDH decks have), or maybe even Weirding Shaman.  Dragonmaster Outcast (nuts if you can keep him alive somehow!), Goblin Assault, Goblin Offensive, or Rakka Mar.

If you wanted to add a little more in the theme of Zombie tokens, you can also have a look at Tombstone Stairwell or Zombie Infestation (though the latter needs a card engine). If you want to lean more towards Goblins, well, Goblin Warrens is busted there, but I don't think you'll have enough mass token generators for that.

Other random cards that came to mind: Rakdos Guildmage. Minion of Leshrac (to hell with Minion of Tvesh Sezat, this guy's where it's at), Helldozer. 
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 02, 2010, 08:12:32 PM
(http://www.deviantart.com/download/173742533/Serra_Baneslayer_Comic_by_DanShive.jpg)

heh
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 02, 2010, 08:27:40 PM
Yeah.  I remember when Serra Angel was OP, back in the day.

Now all these kids with their Walletslayers and their Primeval Titans.

I_M, can I join you on the porch screaming at the kids to stop playing card games on your lawn?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 03, 2010, 02:53:42 AM
Heh, now's not a good time for crotchety geezerisms.

Last night I finally got around to adding Vengevines and Fauna Shamans to my favourite old Darwin (U/G/r survival toolbox) deck. The deck's control elements had gradually improved over the years, but the aggro components had remained static, so the deck had slowly lost it's ability to be a credible threat.

Not only were the new cards a huge shot in the arm for a deck which had once been powerful but had missed the power creep train, but they even made the deck play just like it used to, with Vengevines offering the same ability to come out of nowhere with a burst of fat that Arrogant Wurms once offered.

(http://goodgamery.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/vengavinef.gif)

:cake:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 05, 2010, 12:23:06 PM
I did a draft with some friends on Tuesday and now I'm thinking about getting back into the game.

Luigi screams for 10 seconds. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBRSTXBBpRU#)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 05, 2010, 01:42:21 PM
M11 is pretty swank, and I'd say set aside some Voltaic Keys, as we've got an artifact-based set coming up.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on August 05, 2010, 04:06:20 PM
M11 is pretty swank, and I'd say set aside some Voltaic Keys, as we've got an artifact-based set coming up.

Well. There are going to be lots of artifacts, anyway; they wouldn't put it on Mirrodin if that weren't going to be the case. The impression I've been getting from the little bits of material addressed to shop owners that have turned up is that the next block will have two competing themes, each being associated with one of the two major factions: 'Mirrodin Pure', made up of formerly-indigenous Mirrodin races, and 'New Phyrexia', being the people and places affected by the Phyrexian oil that Karn had been dealing with last time around. The implication seems to be that Mirrodin Pure will represent "artifacts matter" while New Phyrexia will support something else, possibly either poison or alternate-win conditions in general—although as often as those two ideas get speculated as potential block themes, two teaspoons of salt are probably in order.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on August 05, 2010, 04:09:48 PM
The thing I heard about it is it's going to be two seperate packs per box. One set for one faction another set for the other.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 05, 2010, 04:58:05 PM
That was an early rumor that got out of hand. The real answer is that nobody knows much of anything other than a: At least some cards in this set will feature watermarks, similar to the Ravnica Guild symbols and b: the second set of the block is called "Mirrodin Besieged".
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 06, 2010, 02:35:45 PM
I saw a decent combo using Bloodghast, Jinxed Idol and Mortician Beetle!

Luigi Screaming for 3 minutes and 10 and 1/3 seconds. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht8I5JjnxSo#)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on August 06, 2010, 03:11:40 PM
Heading to another draft today.

Lessons learned from last time
-Don't use 60 cards
-Blue/black is decent if I get the cards
-Don't use 60 cards.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on August 06, 2010, 10:50:56 PM
Me and my friend both lost our first two draft matches. Said Fuck this :barf: , and left.

I built a pretty solid Red/Green deck but I didn't have the patience to sit through five rounds of matches where some guys are taking 20 minutes for a single match.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on August 06, 2010, 11:05:46 PM
Sucks, man. What happened in your games?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on August 06, 2010, 11:23:24 PM
First match: All land, maybe three total creatures. He just wrecked me.

Second match: I got him to five health with two mana, but the creature I was fighting with was knocked out and he chipped away at me because my deck would not give me more mana.

At least I got some cool stuff out of it. Gaea's Revenge (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205033), for example.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 07, 2010, 07:39:44 AM
Oh no worries, '0-2, drop' is a classic FNM score.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on August 09, 2010, 08:55:46 AM
Gen Con 2010: Magic the Gathering Tactics Demo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcAjiKafKRw#ws)

I.. man.. I don't even know what to think of this.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 09, 2010, 09:18:00 AM
Oh jesus.

They finally did it.

They out-Pokémoned Pokémon.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on August 09, 2010, 09:36:23 AM
Actually I think a pokemon game that played like this would be more fun/make more sense.

This is just a travesty.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 09, 2010, 09:52:35 AM
Well, yes. What I'm say is, around 6:00, the guy mentions that spells and creatures will be sold in booster packs.

Pokémon has new creatures and items introduced in new games. While they can be traded and swapped, they are set and finite. If you want to get a certain Pokémon, you go to the area they frequent and wander around or whatever. If you miss your chance, you can continue to wander, or in extreme cases, reset the game.

You don't go online and buy six boosters and pray that you got a Red Gyarados or a Shiny Rapidash.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 10, 2010, 02:48:32 AM
I don't know what you guys are complaining about, it could be so much worse (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/481)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 10, 2010, 04:01:11 AM
Sure thing, mister-I-buy-every-card-in-every-language.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 10, 2010, 04:20:37 AM
:glee:

Where you guys would buy a playset of regular English cards you need for a deck, I buy some combination of one-each of German, Russian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Japanese, or Chinese.

It's really not that much more expensive (hell, in the case of buying current-set boosters in Russian, French or Spanish, it's the exact same price, thanks to 401 Games). Once in a while it's even cheaper (for example, Fauna Shaman is a good $2 cheaper in Europe).

Overall, the main thing is an investment of time.

EDIT: I make no apology for loving to play with cards like "Kugelblitz", "Gotterdammerung", "Bâtard Sauvage", "Zwang", "Garruk Falabravo" (he's a 'Planinauta'!), "Willenskraft", or "Наказание/Преступление".

Bonus points if you recognise the last one.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on August 10, 2010, 01:47:10 PM
There's a bit of a problem when you toss down something riddled with chinese and the other player has to take your word for what it does.  Not everybody memorizes spoilers.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 10, 2010, 01:50:34 PM
I liked playing with common foreign cards like Llanowarelfen and Japanese Lightning Bolt.  But yeah, crazy rares that I wouldn't be able to recognize in Russian would be off-putting.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 10, 2010, 03:04:34 PM
I only own one foreign card: 山.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 10, 2010, 07:52:57 PM
There's a bit of a problem when you toss down something riddled with chinese and the other player has to take your word for what it does.  Not everybody memorizes spoilers.

Most people know what most of the cards do. But it's okay, because I usually try and run a single English copy (especially for less-well known cards) just in case we need exact rules text.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 11, 2010, 04:21:15 PM
Who has Jace, The Wallet Sculptor?

DOHL has Jace, The Wallet Sculptor!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 12, 2010, 03:25:00 AM
I don't know what's more depressing:

1) That WotC even had MTG Booth Girls at GenCon.
2) That their costumes look like they were made by a ten year-old papercraft nut.
3) The morbidly dismal expressions on these three unfortunate ladies.

(http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/daily/events/gencon10/gc_scenes2a.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 12, 2010, 06:20:55 PM
I have an odd question. Are rares worth money anymore? It seems like rares have pretty much fallen by the wayside now that mythic rares have become the thing to get. From what I've seen, most rares these days barely crest ten bucks. Even something as high-utility as the Zendikar fetchlands is only just barely averaging out to about $10.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 12, 2010, 07:28:08 PM
Yeah, high for a rare is now $10. The only ones that have gone for that price in the past year are Fauna Shaman and Zendikar Fetchlands, though Alara block did have two rares with a higher value (Noble Hierarch and Knight of the Reliquary). The vast majority of rares in a set now go for $1-$5.

The main reason is that so much stuff is being opened to supply enough of those damned Mythic rares to dealers and players, that rares are nearly as common as uncommons used to be.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on August 13, 2010, 10:36:53 AM
1) Does anyone have experience with the WoW raid decks? Specifically: has anyone here tried to play vs them with magic decks? My friend said he tried it and it was awesome, but he didn't give specifics.

2) Is there a way to just buy the Planechase cards? I want the oversized planechase cards, but not the other crap that they come with. I also don't want to buy four goddamn boxes to get them all.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on August 13, 2010, 10:42:36 AM
mongrel, I never saw any those girls in the wotc area, are you sure they weren't just people cosplaying? there were a LOT of people dressed up at gencon.

Ziiro, try ebay.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 13, 2010, 12:06:38 PM
I know it's a rather subjective thing to say, but those really don't look like voluntary cosplayers, do they?

Also, photo comes from a page on wizards.com detailing the stuff they had at GenCon, but in fairness to your skepticism, the exact statement is "[The giant serra angel statue] also beckoned people dressed exactly like the statue. Neat!"

Yeah, how about that. Whatta co-inky-dink.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 13, 2010, 12:10:34 PM
The same photostream also included this terrifying vision of horror:

(http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/daily/events/gencon10/gc_scenes6.jpg)

(http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/daily/events/gencon10/gc_scenes7.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on August 13, 2010, 12:54:36 PM
I know it's a rather subjective thing to say, but those really don't look like voluntary cosplayers, do they?

Also, photo comes from a page on wizards.com detailing the stuff they had at GenCon, but in fairness to your skepticism, the exact statement is "[The giant serra angel statue] also beckoned people dressed exactly like the statue. Neat!"

Yeah, how about that. Whatta co-inky-dink.

Hey, guess what. (http://ravenspiritmage.deviantart.com/art/MAGIC-Serra-Angels-174558201?q=&qo=) Is there a word for "cynically seeing misery where none actually exists"?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 13, 2010, 01:18:51 PM
Well, I said it was subjective, now didn't I?

And I still don't think they look exactly overjoyed in that picture.

Sure, maybe it's a bad picture, or not reflective of their mood at the time, or whatever, but tell me you can't see that as at least possible if that pic is taken without context.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 13, 2010, 01:57:36 PM
Cosplaying can be irritating sometimes. You're walking around in uncomfortable (sometimes revealing) clothes and armour for hours at a time with few opportunities to sit down or go to the bathroom. And people want to take pictures of you.

On the other hand, the sheer determination to hand-craft armour of that intricacy would surely carry over to the actual wearing of it, so I'm gonna go with my gut here and say that those girls are probably just trying to look stern.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kashan on August 13, 2010, 03:24:07 PM
If they were booth babes they'd have costumes that were so so so much more revealing.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 13, 2010, 05:36:29 PM
Yeah. You'd probably get Liliana Vess and Baneslayer Angel.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 13, 2010, 08:22:45 PM
If they were booth babes they'd have costumes that were so so so much more revealing.

Sadly, this is probably the most accurate thing posted on this whole page.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 17, 2010, 09:36:37 AM
So it looks like Venser's going to put in an appearance as the latest planeswalker in Scars of Mirrodin, possibly under the name 'Venser the Sojourner'.

(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109635&d=1282060734)

Ah planeswalkers, travelling the spheres by use of... a call box? I don't remember that being part of the lore.

(http://www.johnpicacio.com/blogpics/drwhotennant.jpg)

"Sure 'tis mate."

Hey wait just a...
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on August 17, 2010, 10:08:19 AM
Wasn't Venser black? Oh wait, that was Teferi, who probably died along with all the other ethnic planeswalkers in the Great Maguffin.

EDIT: Nevermind, apparently there's a dude named Koth who's not a cracker on the next expansion.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on August 18, 2010, 08:50:01 PM
Fuck yes.

Check out the keyword in today's Arcana (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/519):

[spoiler]Infect (This creature deals damage to creatures in the form of -1/-1 counters and to players in the form of poison counters.)[/spoiler]

This is the one way to make me have any interest in this block. I am so, so psyched right now.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 19, 2010, 02:59:09 AM
Haha, yeah poison coming back in scars has been widely speculated, based on a bundle of MaRo's cryptic comments.

Most importantly he'd confirmed poison was coming back a few years ago "sometime in the future", back when the farthest set he could have known about at the time was Scars of Mirrodin, so this was literally the last set it could have been in before he became a liar.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on August 19, 2010, 07:14:36 AM
And he would never lie.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 19, 2010, 07:31:15 AM
Actually, no, in a decade he hasn't lied yet.

He's prevaricated, distorted, evaded, avoided, left information out, and otherwise misrepresented facts, but once you understand the 'rules' of how Maro posts, you can see he's never outright lied.

I'm one of those people who think MaRo's rumours are basically useless and that they are far more for his own entertainment then they are ours, but while his 'spoilers' may be a big game to him, it's not any more sinister than that.

If you're going to bring up the infamous 'Mythics won't be staples' claim, well the first point is that he never actually used that phrase. The second is that the phrase he DID use was "Mythics won't be a list of all the good cards in a set", which not only leaves a boatload of room for interpretation, but is in no way a claim of "we won't ever print a ridiculous card at mythic". Sure Mythics have been a big cock in everyone's ass as far as money goes, but people read a promise in those words that simply wasn't there.

Like I said, if you know the rules of how MaRo speaks, you know what you can trust and what you should just ignore as meaningless.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on August 19, 2010, 07:46:21 AM
OK, I will cede that much, but it was always possible that poison was considered at one point and later dropped.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 19, 2010, 08:15:22 AM
It probably WAS considered and then dropped again several times. Apparently MaRo'd been pushing for years for it to make a comeback and only made the announcement once it was finally approved to really be in.

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 19, 2010, 10:32:48 AM
left information out, and otherwise misrepresented facts

sounds like lying to me
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 19, 2010, 11:26:46 AM
Nah. If you read a few of MaRo's columns where he talks about an upcoming product, you'll know what I mean.

If he's guilty of anything, it's years of being a cocktease without ever putting out.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 19, 2010, 12:18:27 PM
Hm. I wonder what Wizards would do without him? I mean, he's a guy that has worked within the Hollywood BS Machine. He knows how to sell snake oil. But he also knows and loves the game.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 19, 2010, 12:48:32 PM
Their customer relations would be in a lot worse shape, I'll say that much.

I suppose Aaron Forsythe and Mark Gottleib are okay at least, but neither is anywhere near as funny as MaRo and they rarely write anyway. Worse yet, can you imagine the regular reins being taken over by some idiot like Mike Flores or Matt Cavotta? UGH.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 19, 2010, 01:38:17 PM
What is Poison Counters?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: LaserBeing on August 19, 2010, 01:46:27 PM
If you get 10 of them on you, you die regardless of your life total.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 19, 2010, 04:10:12 PM
Possibly one of the most fun and underused win-conditions of all. It was confined to green and black up till now.
Some examples:

(http://www.mtgvault.com/images/cards/LEG/Pit_Scorpion.jpg) (http://www.mtgvault.com/images/cards/VIS/SuqAta_Assassin.jpg) (http://www.extensiveenterprisesonline.com/OnlineStore/images/tcgs/mtg/drk/marsh_viper.jpg) (http://www.tappedout.net/media/mtg-cards/fifth-edition/serpent-generator.jpg)

It even made a comeback in the Time Spiral Block, viz:
(http://www.dragonbreath.nl/images/Swamp_Mosquito.jpg) (http://www.ccgsearchengine.com/images/cards/Magic-The-Gathering/Future-Sight/Virulent-Sliver.jpg) (http://www.moxdiamond.com/images/cards/magic/FutureSight/cdbebcee12972e26f675934e5f898c87.jpg)

FUN FACT: The Homelands exapansion had this card:
(http://www.collectorscache.com/StoreModules/ProductImages/140/leeches.jpg)
but no cards that caused poison counters!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on August 19, 2010, 05:01:43 PM
If Magic was a forum and each expansion was a poster, Homelands would be Sora.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 19, 2010, 05:05:41 PM
I never really understood how poison was fun mechanically. I mean, it's just a different form of damage. This new reinvention where a player has to choose between poison and actual damage when building their deck, that at least forces an interesting choice.

Though flavour-wise, I guess can see why people like it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Rico on August 19, 2010, 06:23:43 PM
I never really understood how slivers were fun mechanically.  I mean, it's just a different form of elf/goblin deck.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 19, 2010, 06:46:49 PM
Except if Elves or Goblins were all some iteration of Goblin King or Elvish Champion.

My friend Nick and I discussed Slivers, and he posited that the Ally cards in Zendikar were a better expression of a Sliver-like mechanic. I kind of agree, since Allies get CITP abilities as well as "[action which includes variables] for each Ally you control."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on August 19, 2010, 06:50:16 PM
My favorite deck is actually my sliver deck. Just something about the changing strategy based on the synergy of the cards you first picked up makes it interesting.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 19, 2010, 07:40:31 PM
Just so long as you don't include a Damping Matrix.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 20, 2010, 08:01:58 PM
I suppose this could also go in the "calling all internets" thread, but anyway. Does anyone know where I can find the Divine vs. Demonic and Garruk vs. Liliana duel decks for cheap?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 20, 2010, 08:16:20 PM
Usually ebay is the answer.

Also, if you only really want a couple cards from the sets, you can pick up singles pretty cheap.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on August 26, 2010, 08:43:05 PM
I never really understood how poison was fun mechanically. I mean, it's just a different form of damage. This new reinvention where a player has to choose between poison and actual damage when building their deck, that at least forces an interesting choice.

Though flavour-wise, I guess can see why people like it.

Apparently Rosewater hates the idea of poison as "just another" life-total. People are wondering whether this means there won't be ways to remove poison counters, or there won't be "poison as a resource"-style cards, or what.

In other news, a new Scars of Mirrodin keyword was just spoiled (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=266581) from the Elspeth/Tezzeret Duel Decks set. This standard season is going to be just crazy with +1/+1, -1/-1, poison, charge, quest, level, and loyalty counters—AMONG OTHERS—and I couldn't be happier.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 27, 2010, 06:29:56 AM
And Emblems :glee:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on August 27, 2010, 09:02:51 AM
Actually, I think emblems are going to be similar to that keyword "substance" that got incorporated into the text of those Mirage-block auras that could be played as instants, instead: it's a bit of technology to enable certain unusual mechanics that they're not otherwise going to attempt to promote. I doubt we'll see another card employing emblems for a couple years.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 27, 2010, 09:56:36 AM
EDIT: Oh wait, you said 'another', never mind.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on August 27, 2010, 10:55:50 AM
Also, if you check Gatherer, substance vanished from all cards that had it.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/46a&page=2 (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/46a&page=2)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 27, 2010, 01:49:48 PM
So they no longer have substance.

:whoops:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on August 27, 2010, 05:18:22 PM
I grabbed one of the Archenemy decks from the store today. Taking a look at the Scheme cards.. I see how some are supposed to be total game changers and amazing.. But some are like "This wasn't worth printing on a giant card." I see a lot of Archenemy games being lost to bad luck for the archenemy.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 27, 2010, 06:36:00 PM
Yeeeeah, just looking over the schemes, I can see that they pretty much copied certain spells almost exactly. Syphon Soul and Insurrection come to mind.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 28, 2010, 07:18:11 AM
I grabbed one of the Archenemy decks from the store today. Taking a look at the Scheme cards.. I see how some are supposed to be total game changers and amazing.. But some are like "This wasn't worth printing on a giant card." I see a lot of Archenemy games being lost to bad luck for the archenemy.

This happened to me one day when first turn I hit the ongoing one that had me untap during the opponent's untap phase until 3 permanents of mine were destroyed in one turn.

I had no instant spells to speak of during the game, and was easily dispatched.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 28, 2010, 01:06:56 PM
Also, last night at FNM, I played a Red/Green landfall deck with a Primeval Titan against another guy who was playing Primeval Titans.  For all three games, the guy who got a Titan out first won.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 28, 2010, 05:44:53 PM
I see combo winter is coming early this year.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 29, 2010, 12:20:20 PM
Here's the landfall deck I was playing on Friday.  Any suggestions are welcome.

Land
Forest x8
Mountain x6
Terramorphic Expanse x4 (Might find a place for more fetch lands like Evolving Wilds so I can get more Landfall goodness.)
Kazandu Refuge x4 (R/G Heal Land)
Raging Ravine x2 (R/G Man Land, 3/3 that gets a +1/+1 counter whenever it attacks)
Rootbound Crag x 2 (R/G Dual Land)

Creatures

Baloth Woodcrasher x1 (4/4 for 6 that gets +4/+4/Trample on Landfall, might end up taking him out when I get another...)
Rampaging Baloth x3 (6/6/Trample for 6 that pukes up a 4/4 Beast token on Landfall)
Primeval Titan x1 (Titan that searches for two lands upon summon/attack.  Might end up taking him out, as the only Landfall he works decently with is the Rampagers, though if I ever get more Primevals, the next creatures will most likely be cycled out.)
Plated Geopede x3 (1/1/First Strike for 2 that gets +2/+2 on Landfall.  Great with Cultivate or...)
Oracle of Mul Daya x3 (2/2 for 4, lets me get an additional land out every turn, and play lands from the top of the deck.)
Scute Mob x4 (1/1 for 1, grows by +4/+4 every upkeep that I have at least 5 lands out.)
Llanowar Elves x2 (These will be cycled out when I get two more of...)
Birds of Paradise x2 (Llanowar Elves that can generate any mana?  Yes plz)

Sorceries/Instants/Planeswalkers

Garruk Wildspeaker x2 (Mana acceleration, beast tokens, AND an Overrun effect?  Sure!  Of course, Overrun can't hold a candle to...)
Overwhelming Stampede x4 (All my creatures get +X/+X and trample, where X is the greatest power among creatures I control.  Scute Mobs?  Rampaging Baloths?  Hey, those Birds of Paradise are sure looking ANGRY now, aren't they?)
Cultivate x4 (Mana Acceleration.  I've been told to look in to Harrow, and I might.)
Lightning Bolt x4 (Creature control, though the trample can usually cover it pretty well)
Searing Blaze x1 (2 cost for 3 damage to a creature AND player, provided I've activated the landfall ability.  Otherwise it's 1 to each.)

So, once again, what do you think?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 29, 2010, 07:48:50 PM
You've got six grand in the bank. What do you do:

1) Invest in your retirement.
2) Purchase a RealDoll.
3) Blue Hurricane. (http://cgi.ebay.ca/Blue-Hurricane-ID-1279-NM-M-MTG-Edgar-Summer-Magic-/270417788345?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0#ht_2228wt_911)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on September 01, 2010, 08:30:50 PM
Wizards of the Coast is hiring game designers for Magic, again: the Great Designer Search 2 starts later this month. I guess I'll be scouring Rosewater's past (http://www.wizards.com/Default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mr68) design (http://www.wizards.com/Default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mr132) articles (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr253) until my temporary computing solution arrives and I can resume work on Exquisite Knorpse.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 02, 2010, 05:34:18 AM
That last contest was the funniest thing ever. They sort-of rigged the competition, so that they could hire 'the girl', and then found out afterwards it was a pre-op transgendered guy.

The epilogue: she's turned out to be an okay designer, but now works elsewhere at WotC. It turned out that three of the other guys in the top five were much better designers (they eventually tendered job offers to four of the top five contestants) and they now do R&D work... though one of THEM was responsible for Worldwake. So uh, a success, but not by everyone's standards.

This new version should be interesting if nothing else. Sadly, most people will fail to learn the most important lesson: That they are awful at designing games.

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on September 02, 2010, 07:19:48 AM
i understand it was pretty lame constructed wise but I loved worldwake in limited. Also I'm pretty sure it's correct or at least polite to refer to transgendered folks as the gender they want to be.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 02, 2010, 09:32:51 AM
Also I'm pretty sure it's correct or at least polite to refer to transgendered folks as the gender they want to be.

Uh, as far as I can tell, that's what I did?

I only phrased the first sentence the way I did to prevent any confusion.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 02, 2010, 10:27:11 AM
It confused me. I thought you meant that it was a female-to-male transsexual at first.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 02, 2010, 12:37:50 PM
OH WELL.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 03, 2010, 12:12:37 PM
I don't know if this might be a bad idea or not for a multiplayer thing, but you play your deck as usual, however, each turn, during the beginning of the main phase, you take two or three cards from a deck of basic land (say, 5 or 6 of each color), which you can play as though it were your own until the end of turn.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 03, 2010, 02:50:39 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/cb4rq.jpg)

(http://xerent.no-ip.org/template/tarmogoyfscans.jpg)

(http://xerent.no-ip.org/template/wastelandscans.jpg)

Apparently making cheeky faux-old cards is now a thing with the proxy-manufacturing crowd.

 :glee:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on September 03, 2010, 02:54:17 PM
Here's an artifact deck I'm thinking of putting together for kicks. Complete vintage bullshit, but:
Quote
Creatures
  4 Etherium Sculptor
  2 Glaze Fiend
  4 Master of Etherium
  2 Master Transmuter
  4 Epochrasite
  1 Darksteel Colossus
  2 Myr Retriever

Spells
  2 Howling Mine
  2 Tezzeret the Seeker
  1 Font of Mythos
  1 Darksteel Forge
  4 Darksteel Ingot
  1 Akroma's Memorial
  4 Fabricate
  2 March of the Machines
  1 Obelisk of Alara
  2 Voltaic Key

Lands
  4 Reliquary Tower
  4 Darksteel Citadel
  13 Island

I'm not sure what to remove and add. I'm considering dropping two Masters of Etherium for two more islands. Maybe throw in an Agravian Restoration (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=4480)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 03, 2010, 03:00:52 PM
No 'Vintage-Bullshit' list that includes Tezzeret is complete without a copy of Time Vault. (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=3355635)

Link provided for those unaware of the interaction c-c-c-c-c-combooooo
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on September 03, 2010, 03:08:10 PM
Wow, that'd be really co--

Quote from: http://www.cardkingdom.com/catalog/item/64247
NM      495.00    -      -
EX    445.50    1    
VG    396.00    -    -
G    346.50    -    -

I see.

More roundabout infinite turn I've used previously:
Coretappers (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=49016) + Magistrate's Scepter (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=19748)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 03, 2010, 03:21:08 PM
Wow... Time Vault costs THAT MUCH?!?

I bought mine in I think '06 for $30-$35 each. Then they shot up to $100 each after the Flame Fusillade combo (don't bother asking if you've never heard of it - it doesn't work anymore). As far as I knew they'd stayed in the $150 range since then.

EDIT: Yeah okay, I checked ebay and StarCityGames (SCG is basically the largest store on the net, but are notoriously overpriced, so you have to take their prices with a grain of salt). They both have Unlimited ones around the $200-$250 range, which isn't nearly so dramatic an increase.

You should probably stay well the fuck away from any store that actually has HIGHER prices than SCG.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on September 03, 2010, 03:24:08 PM
Besides Tezz-Timevault nonsense, is there any other fun stuff I may be missing?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on September 03, 2010, 03:47:41 PM
Tolarian Academy
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 03, 2010, 04:45:39 PM
Tinker, Seat of the Synod, Darksteel Citadel, Grim Monolith, Lotus Petal, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt...
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 03, 2010, 05:08:21 PM
I'll post my stupid "I'm a Type 1 whore" Tezzeret Shits-n'-giggles decklist later tonight.

My basic operating principle was "How many broken Type 1 win combos can I include in a single mono-blue/artifact deck?"
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on September 05, 2010, 02:57:35 AM
The new Mox Opal they just revealed is hilariously polarizing: it's [spoiler]a legendary artifact for 0 that can be tapped for one mana of any color if you control at least two other artifacts[/spoiler]. It's Mythic Rare, of course, and already people are braying about how this is "such a betrayal" that WOTC would dare to print such an obvious utility card at Mythic Rare. Nevermind the fact that Moxes have always been some of the highest-profile and most expensive cards in the game, and that this particular implementation won't even work with a lot of decks. That's the other source of contention: by putting limitations on the card that actually make it approach the concept of balance, most people who aren't busy writing strongly worded letters to Mark Rosewater about rarities seem to find the card a disappointment.

There's one segment of the audience, though, that just cannot get enough out of pointing out that this card is really good with Memnite, the new 0-mana 1/1 card that also showed up today, and if you could just get a bunch of those and some Ornithopters and a Mox Opal in your opening hand with some lands and maybe some Steel Overseers and also some cheap proliferate effects, you would have a really good hand a fucking miracle draw.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on September 05, 2010, 02:59:04 AM
I should really stop reading threads at MTGSalvation.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 05, 2010, 07:57:27 AM
I should really stop reading threads at MTGSalvation.

Now you gain wisdom.

I do agree with one thing: The new card is a fiasco. I just happen to think it's a fiasco on many counts.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 05, 2010, 11:17:12 AM
Okay, here's the stupid Tezzerator list. Remember, it's not actually an attempt a tuned deck. Just to have as many silly cards in one deck as possible.

3x All is Dust (As I ransack their homes, they want to shake my hand)
1x Emrakul, The Aeons Torn (well, as long as I have all these giant piles of mana floating around...)

1x Basalt Monolith (probably should be a fourth Grim Monolith, right? Ah who cares.)
2x Candelabra of Tawnos (tee hee)
1x Darksteel Colossus (typical nonsense)
3x Expedition Map (I've been searching low and high... for Academy)
3x Grim Monolith (durrrr)
1x Karn, Silver Golem ( :yeeeeeeaaaahhhhhhhh: )
1x Mana Crypt (focusing on nowhere)
1x Mana Vault (derp derp)
1x Mox Sapphire (I'm happy when life's good)
1x Mox Diamond (And when it's bad I cry)
1x Naked Singularity (I've got values but I don't know how or why)
2x Phyrexian Colossus (probably coming out soon)
1x Sol Ring (i liek mananana)
1x Time Vault (A WINNAR IS YOU!)
4x Voltaic Key (I've tried to find the key to fifty million fables)

1x Ancestral Recall (I asked Bobby Dylan, I asked the Beatles)
2x Braingeyser (card draw/alternate win con)
1x Copy Artifact (so many choices!)
3x Power Artifact (C-C-C-C-C-COMMMMBOING OFF)
1x Stroke of Genius (another card draw/alternate win con... plus giggles)
2x Tezzeret, the Seeker (they call me the Seeker)
1x Time Walk (I asked Timothy Leary, but he couldn't help me either)
1x Tinker (I've been searching low and high)
1x Transmute Artifact (I won't get to get what I'm after, till the day I die)

2x Glimmervoid (blue thirty-two)
1x Minamo, School at Water's Edge (Academy whore)
1x Mishra's Workshop (I've looked under chairs)
4x Seat of the Synod (I've looked under tables)
1x Tolarian Academy (We're looking in at each other and we don't know what to do)
2x Tolaria West (I'm a really desperate man)
4x Urza's Mine (URZATRON needs no introduction)
4x Urza's Power Plant (...)
4x Urza's Tower (yeah what he said)

Another card to suggest that's funny (and is actually affordable): Storage Matrix
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 07, 2010, 08:09:11 AM
I'd love to see that go up against a deck running Energy Flux or Shattering Spree.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 07, 2010, 05:38:17 PM
(http://magiccards.info/scans/en/m11/28.jpg)

According to some secondhand information, this is the most overused card in EDH. Confirm/deny?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 07, 2010, 05:59:30 PM
It's possible. I haven't played EDH in a while.

Frankly, the format's getting silly. I knew that if Wizards started actively designing cards for the format, it would become a joke. Then they made a whole set for EDH (Rise of the the Eldrazi). 

Also, there's been a gigantic explosion of spoilers for Scars of Mirrodin (http://mtgsalvation.com/scars-of-mirrodin-spoiler.html).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 07, 2010, 06:38:02 PM
Frankly, the format's getting silly.

Nooooooo

Not until I've actually played a game!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on September 08, 2010, 01:37:42 PM
So assuming I want to buy single cards online (like to build my artifact deck), where would be the best place to buy a deck from? As in, best stock, prices? Etc.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 08, 2010, 01:53:35 PM
Ebay. Easily the cheapest, doubly so if you're patient enough to wait for an auction that goes for a slightly lower price. Also always has everything in stock.

Unless of course you can get some local ripoff deals and cheap cards are more important to you than your lesser friends/random small children.

By the way, anybody want a Time Walk (unlimited), Mox Pearl (unlimited), or From the Vault: Exiled (NOT FTV: Relics)? I have some extras I ought to flog.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 08, 2010, 02:18:29 PM
Well, my birthday is coming up...
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 08, 2010, 02:31:04 PM
Well, my birthday is coming up...

Ha! Ha! Iss wary funny yoke!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 08, 2010, 03:46:51 PM
 :;_;:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 09, 2010, 08:05:18 PM
(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/ld/uiyts4567fghjfsfs.jpg)

Katamari on the Rocks (Full Version) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR7nX76eRiI#)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 09, 2010, 08:06:32 PM
You, uh, can't really hotlink attachments.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 09, 2010, 08:13:04 PM
But I cleared my cache entirely and reloaded to make sure it worked and it did. Also, "attachment" links from the same source worked previously, on these very same boards. :wat:

Whatever, no problem, fixed with an alternate source.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 10, 2010, 04:27:38 AM
Anyway, that card is fantastic.  I do have a few Mirrodin cards left over from a friend's old MTG days, so I'm wondering which ones will get reprinted.  This card will only spell love for those old ones.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 10, 2010, 04:47:50 AM
Did I ever tell you about my friend Phil's all-artifact deck called "Toucan Slam"? It had all the colour-producing myr, Genesis Chamber, Myr Incubator and Coat of Arms.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 12, 2010, 10:40:52 AM
Anybody interested in trading for two Jace Belerens?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 12, 2010, 12:36:15 PM
Only if the card title contains the word "Mindformer".
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 12, 2010, 01:44:05 PM
I pulled a Liliana Vess today.

The R/G and W/U dual lands.

Relentless Rats (only 35 more to go!)

Shiny Royal Assassin!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 12, 2010, 06:09:51 PM
I pulled a Liliana Vess today.

Trade you some Relentless Rats for it!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 12, 2010, 07:04:02 PM
:D
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 16, 2010, 11:32:53 AM
I picked up the Elspeth vs. Tezzeret set the other day. I haven't opened it though. Should I wait until the value of the box has risen and resell it, take it apart and resell/trade individual cards if/when their value goes up, save it as a gift for Christmas, or just open it up?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 16, 2010, 12:31:58 PM
Card value on those is only going down. You want the cards, open it. You don't, flog it quick.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 17, 2010, 09:50:18 AM
There is no way this card title is an accident.

(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/scarsofmirrodin/r8ylvcrfsh_en.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 17, 2010, 11:45:05 AM
I don't get it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Fuchsia on September 17, 2010, 11:51:11 AM
Tunnel Ignus: switch the G and the N, change the E to an I, change the T to a C, and remove the space.

:shrug:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on September 17, 2010, 01:12:42 PM
Or just say it out loud.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on September 17, 2010, 01:28:48 PM
You'd have to be a cunning linguist in order to pronounce that name in a way that conveys the joke
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Classic on September 17, 2010, 03:01:20 PM
... I hate you guys. All of you.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 17, 2010, 07:29:49 PM
Or just say it out loud.

Precisely


The best part is that in the art, the little troll is picking up the head of a Myr.

He is literally getting (a) head.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 17, 2010, 07:32:50 PM
I think the joke died on the table.

Or just say it out loud.

Precisely

I was saying it out loud all afternoon. All I got was weird looks from people.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on September 17, 2010, 09:40:22 PM
Then you're saying it wrong.  Some issue of your canuckistani accent, I reckon - all that hockey's got your teeth messed up.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 18, 2010, 11:42:28 AM
Help me build a Selenia EDH deck!
(http://www.mtgvault.com/images/cards/TMP/Selenia_Dark_Angel.jpg)
Okay, so I dismantled my Akroma EDH deck, and now I've the beginnings of a B/W all-angel EDH Deck starring Selenia, Dark Angel. Not the beefiest general, but she does have that nifty bounce ability. Here's what I have creature-wise.

Angels which could go in the deck:
Adarkar Valkyrie
Reya Dawnbringer
Luminous Angel
Fallen Angel
Silver Seraph
Deathless Angel
Angelic Protector
Radiant, Archangel
Avenging Angel
Twilight Shepherd
Pristine Angel
Blinding Angel
Serra Angel
Angel of Salvation
Seraph
Desolation Angel
Angel of Despair
Akroma, Angel of Wrath

Angels I don't have but would work well:
Baneslayer Angel
Exalted Angel
Karmic Guide

Suggestions?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 21, 2010, 06:04:56 AM
(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/scarsofmirrodin/az6lui4mal_en.jpg)

 :khaaan: :khaaan: :khaaan: :khaaan: :khaaan: :khaaan: :khaaan: :khaaan: :khaaan: :khaaan: :khaaan:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 21, 2010, 11:51:55 AM
D:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 21, 2010, 03:52:56 PM
Well. That was quick.

(http://i.imgur.com/tyGPJ.png)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 21, 2010, 04:43:02 PM
(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=29846&type=card)(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=29846&type=card)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 21, 2010, 04:53:57 PM
(http://i55.tinypic.com/3476us0.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 22, 2010, 03:27:32 AM
I threw together a crappy U/W artifact deck mainly to use the Tezzeret I got from the Tezzy v. Elspeth box I picked up.

I only own one Master Transmuter, but she's crazy good in this deck.  Paying 1 to trade this Ornithopter for a Triskelion, then next turn, ping the dude for 3, bounce the Triskelion back to my head and put it back down with 3 fresh counters?  Sure.  Oh, hey!  Voltaic Key!  DO IT AGAIN, MUAHAHA.


Also: Leyline of Sanctity in play on first turn.  Ornithopter.  Turn 2, Jinxed Idol.  Sac Ornithopter to Jinxed Idol.


THIS GAME ENDS IN TEN TURNS.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 22, 2010, 05:41:08 AM
Full Scars of Mirrodin spoiler is up.

Sadly, almost all the cards I want are mythics, and there are few enough of those.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 22, 2010, 06:56:47 AM
Full Scars of Mirrodin spoiler is up.

Sadly, almost all the cards everyone needs are mythics, and there are few enough of those.

Every format is Type 1 now.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 22, 2010, 08:11:57 AM
Well, I'm not really a competitive player. It's just that the ones that INTEREST me or seem fun, happen to be the comp ones this time around.

Also, your comment about Type 1 is amusing considering a discussion I was having on another board about the psychological impacts of Mythics and rising prices.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 22, 2010, 08:25:05 AM
Do share!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 22, 2010, 09:16:17 AM
Do share!

Start here, read on. (http://forums.goodgamery.com/viewtopic.php?p=312124#p312124)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 22, 2010, 10:24:33 AM
I'm with you on the difficulty of trading. My friend Jim has two Baneslayers in his trade binder. As soon as a potential trader sees them, they don't want anything else.

Reading the thread and seeing the $50 preorder cards on Starcitygames.com is making me think of the crash in the comics speculator's market. I'm not saying that that is where we're headed, since the print runs of X-Men #1 far outstripped demand, whereas a playset of Koth of the Hammer is going to be out of reach of casual players because of enforced rarity. I fear the gulf between mythics and non-mythics is only going to get worse, though, and people may just either quit the game altogether or just use it as a way to make money through trades.

 :tldr: I'm worried that the player-base will dwindle, but the trader-base won't.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 22, 2010, 11:57:22 AM
That last one would be good, because that would mean prices would go down!

Also: The next three pages or so in that thread had some additional points and discussion. Not sure if you read those or just my first post, but there's more if you're still curious.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Bongo Bill on September 23, 2010, 07:05:23 AM
I, personally, get a sense that the game is getting more expensive to get into. Like the cards you need to be competitive are the ones that are very hard to come by, which forces you to turn to the secondary market, and that way lies madness.

Not that I've played it in years. So I don't know.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 23, 2010, 07:41:51 AM
No, you have it exactly right. Competitive cards used to have an average ceiling price of twenty dollars. Maybe thirty. Nowadays, they start at twenty dollars and go up from there. Heck, finding a Jace, the Mind Sculptor (http://magiccards.info/wwk/en/31.html) is like getting a golden ticket.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on September 23, 2010, 08:21:45 AM
Thing is, the cards that bring odd untested mechanics, the group that the game breakers will be part of, are usually rare or mythic rare. Mostly rare (mythic seems reserved to huge mana finishers) though the planeswalkers are big system monkeywrenches.

AND OH HEY GUESS WHICH RARITY MINDSLAVER WAS REPRINTED AS

Then there's Lux Cannon, which introduces the novel concept of the jank mythic. it does have symmetry, 4 mana plus 4 turns to destroy one permanent.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 23, 2010, 09:26:40 AM
Lux Cannon is by no means the first jank mythic. Much of Alara block's mythics could easily be considered jank... which of course lulled people into a false sense of security.

The problem with Planeswalkers is that it's an absolute marketing and branding requirement that they appear at Mythic, which overrides any financial or balance concerns.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 23, 2010, 09:43:32 AM
I get the feeling that the only use anyone could possibly get out of Jace Beleren is to kill Jace the Mind Sculptor via the planeswalker exploit.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Classic on September 23, 2010, 09:59:09 AM
Huh. I think I have an old Nicol Bolas card.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 23, 2010, 11:33:41 AM
I get the feeling that the only use anyone could possibly get out of Jace Beleren is to kill Jace the Mind Sculptor via the planeswalker exploit.

He's actually quite useful for some decks as a disposable card draw engine. The fact that he kills Moneyjace is a very nice thing that's not to be overlooked.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on September 23, 2010, 01:26:05 PM
Huh. I think I have an old Nicol Bolas card.

Ironically, it's perfectly fine to have Nicol Bolas and Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker out at the same time.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 23, 2010, 03:41:55 PM
I found an old Magic encyclopedia in a box, up through Apocalypse.

I just noticed the existence of Portal: Three Kingdoms.

I want a copy of Lu Bu, Master-at-arms.


Also: in this book's intro to Unglued, apparently removing your pants is faster than a mana source.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 23, 2010, 05:26:21 PM
Huh. I think I have an old Nicol Bolas card.

Ironically, it's perfectly fine to have Nicol Bolas and Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker out at the same time.

That's nothing. You could have Crovax the Cursed (http://magiccards.info/sh/en/5.html), Crovax, Ascendant Hero (http://magiccards.info/pc/en/3.html) and Ascendant Evincar (http://magiccards.info/dpa/en/19.html) in play.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 23, 2010, 06:46:24 PM
Well, considering that Ascendant Hero is from that time loopy universe is jacked up set, I can imagine that it would be just like Chrono Cross.  If Crovax Prime were to meet Crovax Ascendant, then he'd just be like.  "Meh...here's a Level 7 tech attack or something."

As opposed to 1985 Jennifer and 2015 Jennifer in Back to the Future II.

"I'm good!!"/"I'm evil!!" *both faint*
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 25, 2010, 07:39:36 PM
So, did anyone do a prerelease event?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on September 25, 2010, 08:02:42 PM
So, did anyone do a prerelease event?
I got a Koth!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 25, 2010, 11:53:32 PM
About five minutes in Photoshop.  I might be a little late to the game on this, but I love it.  Use it if you're using Ajani Goldmane in anything.

(http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr358/kirinjimcdohl/avatarproxy.jpg)


...Now that I look at it, it could use a set symbol.

EDIT: Now with Set Symbol!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 26, 2010, 04:16:26 AM
(http://magiccards.info/scans/en/m11/149.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 26, 2010, 05:49:25 AM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/88/KataraHealing.png/300px-KataraHealing.png):(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=1348&type=card)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 26, 2010, 08:15:29 AM
(http://www.tappedout.net/media/mtg-cards/visions/miraculous-recovery.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 26, 2010, 08:29:19 AM
(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=129494&type=card)
(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081212184530/avatar/images/thumb/5/56/Sokka_0004.png/250px-Sokka_0004.png)




LATER...


(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=198395&type=card)
(http://www.buzzfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/sokka.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 26, 2010, 08:55:34 AM
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090227203853/avatar/images/4/47/Sokka_make_sword.jpg) -> (http://www.dragonbreath.nl/images/celestial_sword.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 26, 2010, 09:05:46 AM
(http://inkandpixelclub.com/wp-content/uploads/images/bandit/bbandit05.jpg)
(http://www.mspaintadventures.com/advimgs/ps/combatop.gif)
(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=29970&type=card)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on September 26, 2010, 09:09:24 AM
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f216/Ninjabredman01/250px-TophMetal.png) (http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f216/Ninjabredman01/8uvmirwx2u_en.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 26, 2010, 09:09:36 AM
Requesting a threadsplit, as I hate to derail this thread, and I'd like to talk about Scars.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on September 26, 2010, 09:30:14 AM
how could you derail this thread?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 26, 2010, 09:35:58 AM
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090502235360/avatar/images/thumb/5/56/The_Mechanist.png/250px-The_Mechanist.png)
ACTIVATE.
(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=209009&type=card)
(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=206331&type=card)
(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=206332&type=card)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on September 26, 2010, 09:45:56 AM
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f216/Ninjabredman01/Full_Ozai.png)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f216/Ninjabredman01/KothOfTheHammer.jpg)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f216/Ninjabredman01/MeltTerrain.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 26, 2010, 09:51:54 AM
(http://iroh.org/screencaps/ep61/ep61-967.png)
(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=699&type=card)


In the optimal world, I'd have classic Counterspell artwork with Tempest's Counterspell flavor text.


"It was probably a lousy spell in the first place."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 26, 2010, 10:31:39 AM
(http://iroh.org/screencaps/ep61/ep61-967.png)

(http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/mtgcom/products/shadowmoor/Spoiler/EN_SHM_0033.jpg)
(http://magiccards.info/scans/en/pc/71.jpg)
(http://viamagic.net/images/CranialExtraction.jpg)
(http://www.mtgvault.com/images/cards/TMP/Lobotomy.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 26, 2010, 10:50:12 AM
(http://quizilla.teennick.com/user_images/L/LY/LYO/LYONZLITENING817/1233418689_4755_full.jpeg) (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=159312&type=card)
They hang out together on weekends.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 26, 2010, 11:34:10 AM
(http://quizilla.teennick.com/user_images/L/LY/LYO/LYONZLITENING817/1233418648_9796_full.jpeg)

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/wclarke_album/squee.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 27, 2010, 03:31:57 AM
Okay, that was fun.

So, Scars.  We've seen a few of those cards in our derailing of the thread.  What do you guys think?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on September 27, 2010, 03:49:53 AM
Artifacts have been really lackluster outside of a equipment or two the last few sets. This set is definitely fun.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 27, 2010, 03:53:10 AM
I'm still wary of Poison this go around.  No way to remove damage right now.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on September 27, 2010, 03:59:46 AM
I'm still wary of Poison this go around.  No way to remove damage right now.
The way to deal with poison is to not get hit by things with poison and actually counter this with proliferate like shatter and the like. It's rewarding people who play smart and deal with situations like. "Oh shit i'm geting pounded by poison. Thats a bigger target right now."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 27, 2010, 04:09:27 AM
Yeah, it's why I'm carrying Naturalize in my decks with green now.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on September 27, 2010, 03:21:55 PM
If Rosewater is to be believed, there won't ever be a way to remove the counters in-block. It's going to be an interesting dynamic.

A lot of the guys I used to play with have either gotten out of the game or moved away; between that and the amount of money we're spending on the wedding, I haven't really bought cards in a while, and I haven't played a game with an opponent besides myself since Lorwyn was in standard, so my opinions aren't exactly backed up by play experience. Having said that:

Almost nothing about the Mirran faction interests me. Mirrodin was a total bomb for me from a world and story perspective, and so far Scars hasn't done much to change that. The Myr kind of remind me of the old Scarecrow (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=159408) deck from Shadowmoor, except probably a lot more competitive.

I've always liked poison, though, and my interest in Phyrexia ended once they started the Weatherlight saga, so I'm curious to see how the Phyrexians develop here. I like proliferate and infect, and I'm curious how the faction will change over the next two sets. I hope we get to see white and red Phyrexians.

I enjoy in the abstract the way the mechanics of Zendikar, Rise, and Scars interact. I'm a little curious: Rosewater's state of the game column today mentions that Zendikar limited is a little too fast. Has this been your experience? What made it so quick?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 27, 2010, 04:32:32 PM
I didn't really play much Zen limited, so I couldn't say for sure.

I am getting a pretty "lacklustre" feel from Scars, but I don't think it's as bad as Rise of the Boogerheads. There are a number of decent playable rares, some of which will maybe even rise in value! (rare prices right now for Scars are in the TANK, so if you want something you might as well get it now).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on September 29, 2010, 02:24:50 AM
It's starting again: (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/110a) an introduction to the new Great Designer Search has just gone up, along with an exhortation to post on the GDS Wiki (http://community.wizards.com/magicthegathering/wiki/labs:Gds). Major changes include the fact that designers will start by introducing a block and every challenge they'll have to make cards specifically for that block, as well as the fact that collaboration is being emphasized by permitting the competitors to use anything that's been posted on the wiki by anybody in their own submissions.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on September 29, 2010, 06:27:16 AM
zendikar was really fast because most of the creatures were a lot better at attacking than blocking. If you go turn one steppe lynx, there's very few creatures your opponent can play before turn 3 that can reasonably block it. equipment like trusty machete and adventurers gear let your creatures deal even more damage and trade up after the early game. Landfall also benefited aggressive decks significantly more because not only was it better for attacking but it made a lot more of their draws relevant. In matchups between aggressive decks it was often pretty hard to catch up when you fell behind because of this.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 29, 2010, 06:40:45 AM
I am getting a pretty "lacklustre" feel from Scars,

Me too. They've made sure to keep artifacts as inoffensive as possible. Just look at Affinity's retarded little brother, Metalcraft. But so far I haven't seen anything that screams "THIS IS AN AWESOME CARD AND YOU SHOULD PUT IT IN EVERY DECK."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 29, 2010, 12:10:09 PM
Well, the metalcraft counterspell is pretty boss.


Also, everyone who is concerned:


I want Relentless Rats.  Many of them.  Please help Dohl get Relentless Rats.  My goal is 40, and I have 7.

Buge, I got the Rats you sent me, thanks!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on September 29, 2010, 12:20:56 PM
I can see about finding my old relentless rats. Also I'm thinking about doing red artifact sacrifice. I came up with turn 1 ornithopter mountain kuldothra rebirth for 3 1/1's however beyond that I'm a bit stumped.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 29, 2010, 12:37:48 PM
Oh man.  I used that today.  Then, later on, I had only a whispersilk cloak and the 0-cost shield equipment on an ornithopter and rain bombardment out.  I would swing with my 0/5 Shroud unblockable vigilance ornithopter to deal 1 damage to the opponent.  It was funny.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 29, 2010, 01:02:36 PM
Hey McDohl.

Maelstrom Pulse.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 29, 2010, 01:35:48 PM
Mongrel, I'm just making the deck for silly fun giggle times.  I don't expect anything to happen with it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 29, 2010, 03:10:26 PM
How do you make people understand that there are decks for silly fun giggle times and there are decks for straight-up raping your opponent's face with a spiky dildo? And that never the twain shall meet?

Buge, I got the Rats you sent me, thanks!

:D You're welcome.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on October 01, 2010, 01:20:24 PM
Question.

I play a Glint Hawk Idol (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?printed=true&multiverseid=194049).
I use Myrsmith's (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=209712) ability to throw out a Myr token.
This obviously turns the Idol in to a 2/2 flier, but can that 2/2 flier attack?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on October 01, 2010, 01:23:46 PM
It should be able to as long as it isnt the turn you play the Idol. Assuming that rule is in effect. If the Idol was out a turn prior and you pump out a myr. It will very much indeed because the artifact is already in existance. Kind of how man lands cant attack if you palyed that land that turn.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on October 01, 2010, 01:30:55 PM
aha.  Okay, cool.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Classic on October 01, 2010, 06:24:50 PM
So artifacts can't have their abilities used the turn they come out?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 01, 2010, 08:08:24 PM
As I understand it, any non-creature permanents (without haste) don't have summoning sickness as long as they remain non-creature permanents. As an example:

(http://www.tappedout.net/media/mtg-cards/time-spiral/phyrexian-totem.jpg)

I have a Phyrexian Totem in play. I can use its mana ability the turn I put it into play. If, during that turn, I chose to make it a creature and then decided I really needed a black mana, I couldn't use its mana ability, as it is now a creature. A creature can't use activated abilities that include tapping the turn it comes into play.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Classic on October 01, 2010, 10:34:37 PM
I would have thought that summoning-sickness was like a token that creature permanents get when they come into play. Are there any non-creatures with haste?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on October 01, 2010, 10:36:31 PM
"Summoning sickness" is not a condition the game tracks. If a creature is going to attack or use an ability that requires tapping, the game asks: did this creature come into play this turn? It doesn't matter whether it was an artifact, land, or creature when it entered play; it only matters if it entered play this turn. If that's true, and it doesn't have haste, it doesn't get to do whatever it was about to do. "Summoning sickness" is the shorthand description for this set of rules; somebody submitted a card design for the original Great Designer Search that had the text "Target creature gains summoning sickness," and MaRo explained that the card would actually have to be worded more like "Until end of turn, target creature cannot attack or use abilities whose cost include tapping itself, unless that creature has haste."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on October 02, 2010, 05:40:51 AM
So, after the zany pulls I got for Scars, I was given a sign from, of all people, the King of All Cosmos.

With this in mind, I present:

KATAMYRI DAMACY

Royal Rainbow
16 x Plains
7 x Island
1 x Seachrome Coast (Scars U/W dual land)

On The Rocks (The Myr)
4x Myr Battlesphere (4/7 for 7, spits out 4 Myr tokens.  Tap Myr to pump him during attack phase.)
3x Myr Propagator (3 cost, tap for 2 colorless)
4x Gold Myr (White Mana Myr)
4x Silver Myr (Blue Mana Myr)
4x Darksteel Myr (indestructible Myr)
2x Myr Propagator (3 cost, pay 3 and tap to create another Propagator, complete copy of him)
2x Myr Galvanizer (3 cost, Other Myr get +1/+1, pay 1 and tap to untap all other Myr you control)

Support from the King of All Cosmos

4x Myrsmith (1W, whenever you cast an artifact, you may kick it for 1 colorless for a Myr token)
1x Indomitable Archangel (2WW, flying 4/4, Metalcraft gives all Artifacts you control Shroud)
3x Prototype Portal (4, imprint an artifact, you can crank out a copy of that artifact for its casting cost and tapping the portal)
3x Semblance Anvil (3, imprint a nonland card, all cards that share a type with the imprinted card cost 2 less)
4x Stoic Rebuttal (The same as Cancel, but if you have Metalcraft up, then it becomes O-G Counterspell.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 02, 2010, 08:52:50 AM
Well, since my friends are pulling me back into Magic I figured I'd put together a deck that was easy on the pocketbook. Here's the list so far.

Enchantments:
4x Liliana's Caress
3x Painful Quandary

Creatures:
3x Reasembling Skeleton (or Liliana's Spectre)

Sorcery:
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Mire's Toll (Duress, maybe?)
2x Mind Rot

Artifacts:
3x Temple Bell

Instants:
4x Doomblade
4x Into the Roil
4x Unsummon

Planeswalkers:
2x Liliana Vess
2x Jace Beleren

4x Terramorphic Expanse
6x Island
11x Swamp

It's missing a lot of the pieces and its probably going to lose most games, but it's only going to cost about $20 to put together. And hey, if it trolls some douche running the JaceaTron, it'll be all worth it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on October 02, 2010, 08:59:43 AM
Who's got two thumbs and a shiny Sword of Body and Mind?

This guy.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on October 02, 2010, 11:54:49 AM
Here's something fun.  Goblins.  GOOOOOOBLIIIIINS.

20 x Mountain

Creatures
4x Goblin Gaveleer (1 cost, 1/1 trampler that gets +2/+0 for each Equipment on him.  But he's not really the bread and butter.  This is for if the battle goes long.
4x Memnites (0-cost 1/1.  I pray that this or...)
4x Ornithopter (0-cost 0/2 flier.  This is in my opening hand.)
4x Goblin Chieftain (gives Goblins +1/+1 and haste.)

Spells

4x Pyretic Ritual (2 mana to get 3 mana.  Sweet.)
4x Lightning Bolt (Creature removal, or burn if I'm going for the kill)
4x Galvanic Blast (same as bolt)
4x Kuldotha Rebirth (1 cost, sac an artifact to spit out 3 goblin tokens.  This card in opening hand is MONEY.)

Equipment

4x Accorder's Shield (another 0-cost artifact fodder for Rebirth?  Sure!)
4x Whispersilk Cloak (These two artifacts fit well on to the Gaveleers)


Turn 1: Mountain, 0-cost artifact, Kuldotha Rebirth.  3 Goblins.
Turn 2: Mountain, Pyretic Ritual into Chieftan.  Swing for 8 (life at 12)
Turn 3: ???
Turn 4: Why aren't they dead yet?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 04, 2010, 10:25:53 AM
(http://i55.tinypic.com/20z1fsn.jpg)

D:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on October 04, 2010, 10:44:14 AM
Does deciding whether or not to forfeit count as one of the actions of a player's turn you can control?  I'm guessing not.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on October 04, 2010, 11:18:02 AM
Me and my friend decided to go half and half on the box. I only thought god boxes were a thing of legends.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on October 04, 2010, 02:37:25 PM
TA: Nope. A player can always concede and only he can concede for himself, no matter what the current rules are.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 07, 2010, 07:19:26 AM
Quote from: Tristal
How I prefer cards to be presented, in order of niceness:

One binder full of rares/useful things, organized
One binder full of mostly rares
Several small binders
One small binder
Sorted fat pack-style box
Unsorted box
Loose sealed deck/draft pile
Several tournament pack boxes of random
Some cards in several decks
Pile of cards strewn across I-75 highway
Unorganized cards in shoebox
Unsleeved cards held together by rubber bands
Commons physically thrown at me

:lol:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 07, 2010, 07:57:48 AM
How about a pile of unsleeved commons held together with a rubber band thrown at you while driving down the I-75?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on October 11, 2010, 03:09:47 PM
I present:
(http://www.deviantart.com/download/101573226/FYI_I_AM_A_TF2_SPRAY_by_vlakorados.jpg)

Land:
7x Mountain
7x Swamp
2x Dragonskull Summit (R/B core dual land)
1x Akoum Refuge (R/B Zendikar life land)
1x Blackcleave Cliffs (R/B Scars dual land)
4x Terramorphic Expanse

Creatures:
4x Viscera Seer (1 cost, sacrifice a creature to scry 1)
3x Bloodthrone Vampire (2 cost, sacrifice to give him +2/+2.  Plays well with Mitotic Slime if I were running it.)
3x Vampire Hexmage (2 cost, burns counters off of permanents.  Great if I can do fun things like dump him in to a Mimic Vat)
3x Liliana's Specter (3 cost, forces discard when it comes in to play.  Also fun in the Mimic Vat)

Instant/Sorcery Spells:
4x Mark of Mutiny
4x Act of Treason (these two spells cost 3 and let me steal a creature for a turn.  Then I do unspeakable things with them, like sacrifice them to my vampires or...
4x Fling (lolololololololololololololol)
4x Sign in Blood (card advantage)
4x Lightning Bolt (duh)
2x Staggershock (creature removal)

Other Things:
2x Sarkhan the Mad (Oh, your 6/6 I just punched you with?  He's a 5/5 Dragon that's mine permanently.)
2x Mimic Vat (Good for my annoying effects creatures, or if I see something die that I'm falling in love with.)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on October 11, 2010, 03:14:47 PM
I really should make up theme decks for each TF2 class.  Maybe even shoop up planeswalker cards for the classes.


EDIT: Geez, internet.  Way to steal my thunder sometimes.
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:L0dDuVbwDQk2BM:http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/575/tf2card7.jpg&t=1)
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:SDxmR-BnWAOXHM:http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/5449/tf2card5.jpg&t=1)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 11, 2010, 05:08:04 PM
Those are terrible.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 11, 2010, 05:16:30 PM
I present:
(http://www.deviantart.com/download/101573226/FYI_I_AM_A_TF2_SPRAY_by_vlakorados.jpg)

Land:
7x Mountain
7x Swamp
2x Dragonskull Summit (R/B core dual land)
1x Akoum Refuge (R/B Zendikar life land)
1x Blackcleave Cliffs (R/B Scars dual land)
4x Terramorphic Expanse

Creatures:
4x Viscera Seer (1 cost, sacrifice a creature to scry 1)
3x Bloodthrone Vampire (2 cost, sacrifice to give him +2/+2.  Plays well with Mitotic Slime if I were running it.)
3x Vampire Hexmage (2 cost, burns counters off of permanents.  Great if I can do fun things like dump him in to a Mimic Vat)
3x Liliana's Specter (3 cost, forces discard when it comes in to play.  Also fun in the Mimic Vat)

Instant/Sorcery Spells:
4x Mark of Mutiny
4x Act of Treason (these two spells cost 3 and let me steal a creature for a turn.  Then I do unspeakable things with them, like sacrifice them to my vampires or...
4x Fling (lolololololololololololololol)
4x Sign in Blood (card advantage)
4x Lightning Bolt (duh)
2x Staggershock (creature removal)

Other Things:
2x Sarkhan the Mad (Oh, your 6/6 I just punched you with?  He's a 5/5 Dragon that's mine permanently.)
2x Mimic Vat (Good for my annoying effects creatures, or if I see something die that I'm falling in love with.)

You ass! You accidental deck name thief! I've actually had a deck with this name for several months now.

4x Contaminated Ground (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/roe/102.jpg)
2x Psychic Venom (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/un/76.jpg)
1x Pooling Venom (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/fut/74.jpg)
4x Dash Hopes (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/pc/68.jpg)
3x Mundungu (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/vi/132.jpg)
1x Bloodchief Ascension (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/zen/82.jpg)

4x Countersquall (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/cfx/103.jpg)
4x Undermine (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/in/282.jpg)
4x Damnation (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/pc/85.jpg)
2x The Abyss (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/lg/34.jpg)

4x Brainstorm (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ia/61.jpg)

3x Kalastria Highborn (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/wwk/59.jpg)
4x Vampire Nighthawk (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/zen/116.jpg)
2x Sorin Markov (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/zen/111.jpg)

5x Swamp
4x Island
4x Underground Sea
2x Watery Grave
3x Polluted Delta
3x Creeping Tar Pit (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/wwk/134.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 11, 2010, 06:08:07 PM
3x Mundungu (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/vi/132.jpg)

I want to build a deck with those just so I can say that word.  :smile:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on October 11, 2010, 08:18:16 PM
Remember that talk about faction packs? (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg%2Fdaily%2Farcana%2F557)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 11, 2010, 08:21:17 PM
Hahahahahaha. Oh man. The whole thing's going to depend on which Prerelease card is better.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on October 11, 2010, 08:55:06 PM
Hahahahahaha. Oh man. The whole thing's going to depend on which Prerelease card is better.
Thankyou ebay?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 11, 2010, 10:06:48 PM
No no, you misunderstand.

See, I'm pretty sure this will be a storyline thing. Basically, whichever faction wins the pre-release, will win (to some degree or other) on Mirrodin. Many other CCGs have had storyline tournaments, but this will be the first time WotC really does that.

But MTG players - not being used to storyline tournaments and having no emotional investment in the storyline anyway* - won't give a damn. Maybe like you said ebay (i.e. prices) will drive things, or maybe it'll just be whichever prerelease card more players think is 'better', but the point is that few people will choose which decks to play for "the story" - they're going to take the side that will give them the better cards.

Well, if there's a real hot rare in one faction or other, people might gun for that by choosing those packs I suppose.

*Magic's flavor team hasn't been good at spinning a narrative in YEARS. The story lines have just be awful for as long as I can remember. Hell - at one point we had three post-apocalyptic settings in less than six years. It's not even that they're bad stories... it's that you just don't give a shit.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on October 11, 2010, 10:12:49 PM
Oh like LoT5R?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on October 11, 2010, 10:22:18 PM
And yet, somehow, the players not giving one shit about the lore fits it so perfectly.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on October 12, 2010, 12:30:23 AM
Betting everyone will want the phyrexian cards because 1) they have a much smaller selection of cards (like 10% of the set) so it's that much easier to make a deck and 2) proliferate is the hand of the god of broken mechanics upon the earth.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on October 12, 2010, 03:30:43 AM
I guess our decks are still both in flavor of the spy...

Except that my deck is RED, and your deck is BLU.  HMMMMMMMMM..... :mystery:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 12, 2010, 04:33:29 AM
Oh like LoT5R?

Yeah. Though debate is still raging as to whether or not this will actually affect what gets printed in the third set of the block.

See, it's pretty widely agreed that WotC won't design two entire sets and just throw one out on account of someone losing. And while they could feasibly make say, 80%-90% of a set that would be the same either way and 10%-20% that would change based on whether or not Phyrexia or Mirrodin 'wins', they might not have time to make changes to the third set's print runs by the time the 2nd set's prerelease rolls around (based on their usual timeframes anyway, which see cards printed pretty far out ahead).

Betting everyone will want the phyrexian cards because 1) they have a much smaller selection of cards (like 10% of the set) so it's that much easier to make a deck and 2) proliferate is the hand of the god of broken mechanics upon the earth.

No, I'm pretty sure the proportions will be 50-50 for the next set.

EDIT: if you mean that people will pick Mirrodin because 80% of Scars of Mirrodin is Mirran faction, that won't really matter. if you look at the actual cardlists, there's roughly equal numbers of cards in SoM that can be used for Poison/Infect and Metalcraft. I expect the Mirran boosters to focus on Metalcraft and the Phyrexian ones to go for the Infect cards, so for deck construction purposes things will be roughly equal.

I guess our decks are still both in flavor of the spy...

Except that my deck is RED, and your deck is BLU.  HMMMMMMMMM..... :mystery:

I never really was on your side anyway!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 12, 2010, 04:58:13 AM
Magic's flavor team hasn't been good at spinning a narrative in YEARS. The story lines have just be awful for as long as I can remember. Hell - at one point we had three post-apocalyptic settings in less than six years. It's not even that they're bad stories... it's that you just don't give a shit.

A ___________ (object or event) is threatening __________ (plane) and a small group of heroes have to stop it by  __________ (adverb) ___________ (gerund) in order to defeat __________ (villain).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 12, 2010, 06:54:13 AM
Magic's ability to do flavour probably went out around the same time Peter Adkinson did. back when they got a branding department. 
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 12, 2010, 07:50:42 AM
Well, yes. Just look at some of the neato ideas Pete Venters put forth (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mc93), like thrulls overrunning Sarpadia.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on October 12, 2010, 09:25:25 AM
Betting everyone will want the phyrexian cards because 1) they have a much smaller selection of cards (like 10% of the set) so it's that much easier to make a deck and 2) proliferate is the hand of the god of broken mechanics upon the earth.

that's for the next set, where phyrexians are 50/50 with mirrans
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 12, 2010, 12:11:45 PM
Pete Venters is an awesome guy. I had an opportunity to talk with him for hours on end years ago, after he'd left WotC, but not too long after he'd been continuity director for a long time (Canadian Nationals, around Urza's Destiny. He was the guest artist and there were long period of nothing for either of us to do but listen to Pete tell stories).

A lot of the stuff I know about Wizards' early life, Pete told me first. He still lives near WotC and is probably still their "emergency" artist (works fast, is always on time & reliable, lives nearby, etc.) as he was back then.

Best thing I got though was a hand-drawn map of Dominaria. It's rough, and missing plenty of things, but as far as I know, it's the only copy outside of employee hands. The reason he could do that was because he actually created the original map of Dominaria, when he was continuity director. Pete painted a globe for WotC that showed the world and all its locations. It does appear on one card, sort of: Invasion Plans (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/sh/89.jpg).

At one point I'd planned to make it into a Risk board (LOL). Now I don't know what I'd ever do with it. But someday I should paint it nicely for some kind of gaming.

Sadly, that's probably the only interaction with a WotC staffer I'll ever be able to say I genuinely enjoyed.

EDIT: Ha, I just realized he mentions the globe in that article.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on October 12, 2010, 01:54:38 PM
You might want to start with a high-res scan there, buddy.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on October 14, 2010, 04:35:49 AM
Hmm.  I really should make the Katamyri deck 5-color for flavor.  But how best to go about it?  I don't have much in the way of dual lands that aren't already in a deck.  Though semblance anvils with any one of the mana myrs in it would be delicious.  So so delicious. :3


EDIT: Here's what I put together.


4x Each Basic Land


2x Each Mana Myr
2x Palladium Myr (Tap for 2 colorless)
2x Myr Galvanizer (Other Myr in my control get +1/+1, pay 1 and tap to untap all other myr in my control)
2x Myr Propagator
4x Myr Battlesphere


4x Myrsmith (All artifacts get a 1 cost kicker to get a 1/1 myr token)
4x Stoic Rebuttal (Scars counterspell)
3x Fog
3x Grasp of Darkness (-4/-4 until end of turn)
3x Shatter
3x Semblance Anvil (Here, I imprint any one of the myr in my hand to make artifacts and creatures cost 2 less.  Hello, fast Battlesphere!)


That's it.  I know I want a fourth Semblance Anvil, just so I can hit one faster in the deck.  Should I consider running Terramorphics so I can thin the deck out? Also, I'm interested in good sideboard cards.  I'm thinking of main boarding Lightning Bolts or possibly Galvanic Blast in the red slot with Shatter in the sideboard for Artifacts.  Or possibly my artifact/enchantment removal can be taken up by the Green spot in Naturalize.  I don't want to use Revoke Existence, as that would pull out the Myrsmiths.


I need ideas, folks!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 14, 2010, 05:53:07 PM
Hmm.  I really should make the Katamyri deck 5-color for flavor.  But how best to go about it?  I don't have much in the way of dual lands that aren't already in a deck.  Though semblance anvils with any one of the mana myrs in it would be delicious.  So so delicious. :3


EDIT: Here's what I put together.


4x Each Basic Land


2x Each Mana Myr
2x Palladium Myr (Tap for 2 colorless)
2x Myr Galvanizer (Other Myr in my control get +1/+1, pay 1 and tap to untap all other myr in my control)
2x Myr Propagator
4x Myr Battlesphere


4x Myrsmith (All artifacts get a 1 cost kicker to get a 1/1 myr token)
4x Stoic Rebuttal (Scars counterspell)
3x Fog
3x Grasp of Darkness (-4/-4 until end of turn)
3x Shatter
3x Semblance Anvil (Here, I imprint any one of the myr in my hand to make artifacts and creatures cost 2 less.  Hello, fast Battlesphere!)


That's it.  I know I want a fourth Semblance Anvil, just so I can hit one faster in the deck.  Should I consider running Terramorphics so I can thin the deck out? Also, I'm interested in good sideboard cards.  I'm thinking of main boarding Lightning Bolts or possibly Galvanic Blast in the red slot with Shatter in the sideboard for Artifacts.  Or possibly my artifact/enchantment removal can be taken up by the Green spot in Naturalize.  I don't want to use Revoke Existence, as that would pull out the Myrsmiths.


I need ideas, folks!

More metalcraft? Dispense Justice, Indomitable Archangel, Galvanic Blast and Molten Psyche come to mind. Maybe a Painsmith to keep your Myrsmith company.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 19, 2010, 02:17:20 PM
Yuk yuk yuk

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_hjptZODsAEw/TJbrEI9kmzI/AAAAAAAAAO0/YSXaNv00alQ/bingo.gif)

Source (http://inkwelllooter.blogspot.com/)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 19, 2010, 06:03:17 PM
Oh man. That poison clock. And those poison counters. I gotta make some tokens now! And build a deck for them!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 20, 2010, 04:53:50 PM
Mindslaved, Slaved, some clever wordplay title. I dunno. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vuBNQitCm0#ws)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 20, 2010, 06:35:13 PM
:lol: PRICELESS.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on October 20, 2010, 06:56:10 PM
Ok I laughed.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 05, 2010, 06:14:52 PM
I made a deck today. I hope you don't mind me borrowing your idea, McDohl.

Katamyri on the Rocks a Budget

10x Plains
10x Island
2x Terramorphic Expanse
2x Halimar Depths

3x Gold Myr
3x Silver Myr
2x Palladium Myr
1x Myr Battlesphere
4x Myr Galvanizer
1x Golem Artisan
1x Grand Architect
1x Steel Overseer
2x Myrsmith
4x Neurok Invisimancer

2x Origin Spellbomb
2x Mimic Vat
2x Arrest
2x Pacifism
1x Preordain
2x Foresee
1x Jace's Ingenuity
2x Revoke Existence

Sideboard:
3x Mana Leak
2x Negate
1x Revoke Existence
2x Diminish
2x Abuna Acolyte
1x Mind Control
2x Tectonic Edge
1x Call to Mind
1x Razor Hippogriff

Whoop, make that two decks.

Toxic Love

23x Swamp

2x Ichor Rats
2x Necropede
4x Corpse Cur
3x Blackcleave Goblin
1x Hand of the Praetors
2x Painsmith
4x Plague Stinger

3x Contagion Clasp
1x Contagion Engine
1x Sword of Vengeance
1x Mimic Vat
1x Nim Deathmantle
1x Throne of Geth
2x Whispersilk Cloak
1x Brittle Effigy
1x Sorcerer's Strongbox
2x Grasp of Darkness
2x Vampire's Bite
2x Sign in Blood
1x Corrupt

Sideboard:
4x Black Knight
1x Carnifex Demon
4x Doom Blade
2x Bladed Pinions
1x Culling Dais
1x Temple Bell
1x Elixir of Immortality
1x Needlebite Trap

Finally, I can get some use out of those Poisonbucks.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 06, 2010, 06:31:02 AM
Toxic Love

Soft Cell :Tainted Love Music Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBWrLhgiX74#)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on November 06, 2010, 08:21:02 AM
Who's got two thumbs and Venser the Sojourner?

This guy.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 06, 2010, 08:37:32 AM
Toxic Love

Soft Cell :Tainted Love Music Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBWrLhgiX74#)

Ferngully - Toxic Love (Extended) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg-Wm25T6Qs#)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on November 06, 2010, 08:57:55 AM
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=201285 (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=201285)

...HE WILL BE MY GENERAL.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 06, 2010, 06:01:08 PM
What should I do with this Koth vom Hammerclan?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 06, 2010, 06:59:24 PM
WHAT.

DO YOU HAVE A GERMAN COPY?!?!

WILL ACQUIRE, SEND DEMANDS.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 06, 2010, 07:57:56 PM
WHAT.

DO YOU HAVE A GERMAN COPY?!?!

Um





no
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on November 10, 2010, 05:00:30 PM
My Lu Bu, Master-at-Arms came in today.  I need ideas for him.  I've already got a pile of cards that are pretty much assembled, but I also have a stack half-as-tall of other stuff that might be cool.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 10, 2010, 08:26:48 PM
Honestly? You're going to have a hard time keeping him on the board. He costs six mana and dies to Lightning Bolt.

If you'r going for flavour, I would look into acquiring some ||type=+[samurai]+[Creature]||subtype=+[samurai]||text=+[samurai]&color=+@([R])]Samurai (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=+[samurai) and/or ||type=+[flanking]+[Creature]||subtype=+[flanking]||text=+[flanking]&color=+@([R])]Askari (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=+[flanking), since they have the military theme.

Melee, Sneak Attack, Aggravated Assault, Relentless Assault, Savage Beating, Outmaneuver, Seize the Day, Fury of the Horde, In the Web of War, World at War, Incite War are all good ways to improve combat in your favour. Hand To Hand can keep your dudes from being the victims of combat shenanigans. Yuan Shao, the Indecisive can make combat REALLY interesting if you have Goblin War Drums or something.

Maybe play up the treacherous nature of Lu Bu. Act of Treason, Insurrection, Grab the Reins, Disharmony, Blind with Anger, Mark of Mutiny, Temporary Insanity, Threaten, Traitorous Instinct, Unwilling Recruit all get you your opponents' creatures.

Throw in some equipment to arm your troops with.

I dunno, honestly, there are better Generals for what you can do with Lu Bu. Godo, Bandit Warlord, Telim'tor and Marton Stromgald all come to mind for tactically-minded generals.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on November 10, 2010, 09:03:38 PM
I'm doing this for silly factor.  I want to make Dynasty Warriors jokes, and more Portal: 3 Kingdoms cards would help, but short of buying them online, I really can't do much.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 11, 2010, 06:54:39 AM
P3K cards are also KIND OF PRICEY.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 11, 2010, 07:58:42 AM
Yeah, you're going to need an Imperial Recruiter for your deck, McDohl.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 12, 2010, 07:32:34 PM
I played with my Toxic Love deck at FNM and I learned a couple things.
Pros:
Cons:
So I need to find a way to throw more poison at a faster rate, or just use it for a win-condition, like with Tainted Strike. Or maybe I should have kept the Whispersilk Cloaks in it. I also need to find someone who wants a Koth.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 12, 2010, 08:09:48 PM
Uh, I do want a Koth I guess, even if it's not German.

What do you need/what are you looking for?

If you're looking to make your poison deck better, do you have enough Hand of the Praetors (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/som/66.jpg) and Putrefax (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/som/126.jpg)? I could go fishing for some of those for you, plus whatever else.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 14, 2010, 09:51:15 PM
MTG Player Rewards being discontinued (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/news/111510)

I can guess a number of reasons why they might be doing this, but oh the whining will be endless.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on November 15, 2010, 05:16:35 AM
...Well, ain't that fantastic.  I never even got any promo cards out of it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 15, 2010, 06:06:58 AM
Yeah, I dunno. It's probably expensive to administrate and people complained about card choices anyway (in the last year, they started issuing special promo foil commons, instead of the old system of special promo foil rares). I guess retailers had complained about free singles and players then complained about not getting rares anymore, so there was too much bitching (plus those admin costs with no direct return) and they shitcanned it.

Bad PR, but it'll blow over I guess.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 15, 2010, 06:28:54 AM
Huh. Well, that's one less incentive to go to events.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on November 18, 2010, 04:26:45 PM
So, I want to take my life gain deck out of standard.  I've already added some Soul Sisters, putting me at 8, with Ajani's Pridemates and such.  What else can I do with it?  I've got Serra Ascendants and Leylines of Vitality.  I have a pair of Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant from Kamigawa block, the white essence guy who turns in to an enchantment that prevents damage to creatures when you hit 30 life.  Baneslayers...fuck it.  Here's the deck list as I have it right now.

Land
7x Forest
8x Plains
4x Sunpetal Grove
1x Razorverge Thicket (W/G scars dual land)

Creatures
Soul Warden x4
Soul's Attendant x4
Serra Ascendant x4 (1/1 Lifelink that becomes a 6/6 flying lifelinker at 30 life)
Ajani's Pridemate x4
Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant x4 (2/2 Legend that becomes an enchantment that prevents damage to my creatures at 30 life)
Wurmcoil Engine x1 (Sort of a vestigal leftover from the Standard version of this deck)
Baneslayer Angel x3
Birds of Paradise x3

Enchantments
Armadillo Cloak x2 (3 mana for a +2/+2/Lifelink/Trample)
Leyline of Vitality x4
True Conviction x2 (My creatures get doublestrike and lifelink)

Ajani Goldmane x2

Loxodon Warhammer x2

I think that's everything.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 18, 2010, 04:41:44 PM
Not quite.

(http://www.kcsquare.com/mall/images/jud29.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 18, 2010, 06:00:37 PM
Huh. I just realized something. When I went to FNM last week with Toxic Love, not one of my opponents hectored me because I lost.  The worst I got was a (shared) laugh at the fact that my friend had defeated me with his Contagion Engine. It had been my experience, up until then, that tournament players were cruel bullies, but these guys were genuinely mellow and friendly people.

Some of them could use a few hours on the treadmill and a blast of deodorant, but you get the idea.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on November 18, 2010, 07:12:21 PM
Yeah, even though Wizards is discontinuing their rewards program, I will continue to go to FNM just because of the crowd.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on November 18, 2010, 07:13:18 PM
fnm foils aren't part of magic player rewards anyway
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 18, 2010, 08:41:19 PM
Yeah, but how do you get one?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 18, 2010, 08:50:11 PM
By winning the FNM (or the random Door Prize which SOME locations have).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 19, 2010, 06:03:59 AM
Oh my goodness  :glee:

(http://www.thestarkingtonpost.com/ckfinder/userfiles/images/MarkRosewater.jpg)  (http://atleasti.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/glenn-beck.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 19, 2010, 07:14:47 AM
Creepy.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on November 19, 2010, 09:26:54 AM
(http://www.salemuncommons.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/jim_davis_garfield_odie.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on November 19, 2010, 10:06:46 PM
Highlights of my FNM night.
I placed second in FNM got a pack as a consolation prize. I pulled a foil Wallet Sculptor.
Opponent plays a Bala Ged Thief, we both have a mimic vat out. He has no cards in hand. I lightning bolt the Bala and since it was my turn I have priority meaning my Mimic Vat gets the sweet Bala. Opponents face is shocked when the judge agrees because of the priority system. He had no instants save for a doomblade so it was game over.*

*Clarification: At the end of the draw step I tap my mimic vat to play a Bala which makes him discard a card before he gets the chance to play it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on November 19, 2010, 11:39:45 PM
Also any suggestions on these decks?
Titan Force Go!
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Chandra Nalaar
3 Frost Titan
2 Inferno Titan
4 Mana Leak
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Forked Bolt
4 Into the Roil
4 Preordain
2 Forsee
1 Crystal Ball
1 Mimic Vat
2 Destructive Force
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tectonic Edge
10 Mountain
9 Island

SB
3 Pyroclasm
3 Perilous Myr
3 Act of Treason
3 Shatter
2 Negate
1 Chandra Nalaar

Metalcraft
4 Kuldotha Phoenix
4 Molten-Tail Masticore
4 Precursor Golem
4 Memnite
3 Etched Champion
3 Indomitable Archangel
2 Iron Myr
2 Gold Myr
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Myr Battlesphere
3 Tempered Steel
2 Mox Opal
1 Chimeric Mass
3 Everflowing Chalice
4 Arid Mesa
2 Evolving Wilds
1 Eye of Ugin
9 Mountain
7 Plains

SB
4 Pyroclasm
2 Condemn
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Brittle Effigy
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Mindslaver
1 Etched Champion
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Chimeric Mass
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on November 20, 2010, 07:11:02 AM
Last night, I got steamrolled.  Terribly.  With my favorite R/G land ramp deck.

This sucked.

I did pull a few good eldrazi levelers, like Student of Warfare and Kargan Dragonlord.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 20, 2010, 08:36:23 AM
Highlights of my FNM night.
I placed second in FNM got a pack as a consolation prize. I pulled a foil Wallet Sculptor.

$160-170 Consolation prize. Not bad I guess.

What kind of place gives only one pack for second though? Ugh.

Quote
Opponent plays a Bala Ged Thief, we both have a mimic vat out. He has no cards in hand. I lightning bolt the Bala and since it was my turn I have priority meaning my Mimic Vat gets the sweet Bala. Opponents face is shocked when the judge agrees because of the priority system. He had no instants save for a doomblade so it was game over.*

*Clarification: At the end of the draw step I tap my mimic vat to play a Bala which makes him discard a card before he gets the chance to play it.

What idiot is playing a deck with Bala Ged Theif? Don't tell me you have some dude with a pet ally deck.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 20, 2010, 08:46:38 AM
Also any suggestions on these decks?
Titan Force Go!
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Chandra Nalaar
3 Frost Titan
2 Inferno Titan
4 Mana Leak
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Forked Bolt
4 Into the Roil
4 Preordain
2 Forsee
1 Crystal Ball
1 Mimic Vat
2 Destructive Force
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tectonic Edge
10 Mountain
9 Island

SB
3 Pyroclasm
3 Perilous Myr
3 Act of Treason
3 Shatter
2 Negate
1 Chandra Nalaar

Metalcraft
4 Kuldotha Phoenix
4 Molten-Tail Masticore
4 Precursor Golem
4 Memnite
3 Etched Champion
3 Indomitable Archangel
2 Iron Myr
2 Gold Myr
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Myr Battlesphere
3 Tempered Steel
2 Mox Opal
1 Chimeric Mass
3 Everflowing Chalice
4 Arid Mesa
2 Evolving Wilds
1 Eye of Ugin
9 Mountain
7 Plains

SB
4 Pyroclasm
2 Condemn
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Brittle Effigy
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Mindslaver
1 Etched Champion
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Chimeric Mass

I'm not really up on Standard but for the first deck, maybe cut at least one Chandra for another CheatyJace or another Inferno Titan? Because really.... Chandra? I don't she's above a one-of in the most fringy of decks.

The second deck is trying to do too many different things without enough tutors or toolbox effects to justify it. Either dump the Myr stuff for more Eldrazi boogerhead stuff or or dump the Eldrazi for more Myr stuff.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 20, 2010, 08:08:25 PM
There will be some big announcement on the mtg site about EDH on December 2nd. (http://www.mananation.com/dec-2nd-edh-announcement-wizards/)

It better not be preconstructed decks.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 20, 2010, 08:13:04 PM
It might be that WotC is going to take over the format and make it an officially sanctioned one.

Which would basically be the last nail in the coffin.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 20, 2010, 08:29:08 PM
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080930193517/starwars/images/thumb/6/65/TableFlip.JPG/200px-TableFlip.JPG)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on November 21, 2010, 03:28:21 PM
I... don't see why preconstructed decks for EDH are a bad thing? Considering WOTC's tradition of putting staple rares in precons as one-ofs, it seems like a good fit. Plus, if I'm going to get uncommons and commons that I probably already have, I'd much rather only get one than a random assortment.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 01, 2010, 08:10:59 PM
A new aquisition:

(http://magiccards.info/scans/es/roe/214.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 01, 2010, 08:42:05 PM
If I didn't think you wanted to keep that card in mint condition, I'd suggest painting a sombrero on him.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on December 02, 2010, 04:28:40 AM
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/119k (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/119k)

Bad news: EDH is now Commander and is getting official decks.
Good news: Decks will have new multiplayer-exclusive cards and new wedge-color generals - er, commanders.

Rules and ban list will still be managed by the old team.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on December 02, 2010, 04:41:51 AM
D:

COMMANDER.

COMMANDER.

Fucking...COMMANDER.

Seriously, WotC?

I mean, SERIOUSLY.


EDIT: Well, it's nice that they're doing GIANT general cards, but really, what are you supposed to do if he gets Unsummoned or shuffled back in to your deck or put at the bottom of the library?


EDIT EDIT: I would proxy out the two Sarkhans I have in my Red/Black "FYI I AM A DICK" deck with alternate Sombrero art Sarkhans.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on December 02, 2010, 06:17:20 AM
To continue the tradition of oversized cards associated with our multiplayer releases, each deck will also include three premium oversized legendary commander cards that can be used in lieu of the normal versions of the cards (which are also in the deck).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on December 02, 2010, 06:32:55 AM
Huh.  Must have missed that.

Oh well, that's still cool.  I'd like a giant version of Lu Bu, Master-at-Arms, plox.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 02, 2010, 07:01:44 AM
Long Live EDH, EDH is dead.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 02, 2010, 07:04:16 AM
I'm just relieved that it's not becoming an officially sanctioned format. People will still know what 'Elder Dragon Highlander' means after this. It will remain as it should be: a predominantly casual way to play. I've also done a little reading on the format, and I learned a couple of things:

1. If you're playing one-on-one, you're doing it wrong.
2. You should consider two questions when you're building your deck: Is a card fun to play, and is it fun to play against? If the answer(s) is no, you may want to reconsider the card.

I also learned that Prison Term (http://magiccards.info/shm/en/18.html) can sneak around shroud.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on December 02, 2010, 07:43:13 AM
...You're right.  "...you may attach to that creature."  It triggers upon successful play of any creature.

SNEAKY.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 12, 2010, 05:00:15 PM
Couple of rules questions:

Can you Evoke (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=189216) a creature any time you can play an instant, or just when you can play a sorcery?

If my opponent has a Legendary Land (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=5263) in play and I use Vesuva (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=113543) to copy that land, can I use a land-destruction effect (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=2380) to kill the original before the Legend Rule takes effect?

(I imagine many people have asked the same question about any Clone (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=39533) effect.)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on December 12, 2010, 05:19:44 PM
You cannot Evoke unless you have an effect that somehow gives the card Flash (Leyline of Anticipation)

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/fk57 (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/fk57) -- Check the official rules for Evoke in that DailyMTG.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on December 12, 2010, 05:22:30 PM
You can evoke any time you could play the spell in question. Is evoke on a creature with flash? That creature can be evoked any time you could play an instant. Otherwise, it's sorcery-speed only.

As for the legend rule, no, the simultaneous destruction occurs as a state-based action. This doesn't use the stack, and so you cannot respond to it or sneak in a kill spell before you lose your own copy.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 12, 2010, 09:36:27 PM
So the top 8 decks of Worlds had a collective total 24 CheatyJaces.

Oh dear.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on December 13, 2010, 04:59:40 AM
Hurp derp, so the standard, extended, and now Legacy (maybe) world is dominated by Control.

Thanks, Worldwake!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 13, 2010, 05:27:19 AM
Hurp derp, so the standard, extended, and now Legacy (maybe) world is dominated by Jace, the Mindsculptor.

Thanks, Worldwake!

FTFY
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 13, 2010, 06:26:54 AM
Someone should scribble "I brainstorm" and "GAY" on their Jace card.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 13, 2010, 07:03:07 AM
Only if I get to find that in a dollar bin as a result too.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 13, 2010, 08:43:06 AM
Every time I think about your card, I picture this kid:

(http://www.chicksonpowertrips.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/I_fuckin___love_coloring_by_WhiteSt.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 14, 2010, 09:18:27 AM
EDH Rules update (http://www.mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5200&sid=43ffc6ad82c5d1e87c875a3094fb1fd7)

- Emrakul is BANNED

- Generals (err... "commanders") may now take into account ALL mana symbols on the card. So you can now build EDH decks with, say, Thelon of Havenwood (allows a black/green deck) or Memnarch (allows a mono-blue deck) as the general.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on December 14, 2010, 11:16:03 AM
I want to get my hands on some more Abyssal Persecutors.  My Red/Black FYI I AM A DICK deck can do well with them.  Fling fling fling. <3
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 14, 2010, 03:17:13 PM
EDH Rules update (http://www.mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5200&sid=43ffc6ad82c5d1e87c875a3094fb1fd7)

- Emrakul is BANNED

- Generals (err... "commanders") may now take into account ALL mana symbols on the card. So you can now build EDH decks with, say, Thelon of Havenwood (allows a black/green deck) or Memnarch (allows a mono-blue deck) as the general.

Crap. This means my friend Jim is going to build a Bosh-fling deck.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on December 14, 2010, 04:08:42 PM
Man, Abyssals are going for 20 bucks these days?  Wow. :(
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 14, 2010, 04:13:47 PM
Wow, really? Huh!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on December 14, 2010, 04:16:05 PM
Well, I guess it makes sense.  There's a lot of Black removal these days that can kill him, such as Gatekeeper of Malakir, Viscera Seer, Bloodthrone Vampire...and Red has Fling.  <3
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 14, 2010, 04:26:33 PM
BTW, I don't know where you're checking prices. I just looked up ebay averages for Persecutor and they're close to $15, with $13 each not difficult to get.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on December 14, 2010, 04:38:51 PM
magiccards.info


EDIT: DERP.  Dohl needs to read more better.


Still, 15 is a little more than I'm willing to pay at the moment.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 14, 2010, 07:04:33 PM
Funny. That was exactly the amount I was willing to pay for Baneslayer Angel.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 14, 2010, 07:27:53 PM
Poor Baneslayer. It's now worth only about $13.

By the by, WotC has just dumped a huge amount of art for the next set (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/602).

First picture is almost certainly the Fat Pack, last one is the art for a new Tezzeret (almost certainly a new U/B version, that art is the only one that was previously known.)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 15, 2010, 06:12:29 AM
I think I see Karn. And Glissa. And that "last troll" who's quoted on Asceticism. And... yet even more mirrored artwork.

I really like that Terese Nielsen piece.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 15, 2010, 07:41:37 AM
Everybody likes that Terese Nielsen piece.

Which of course means it'll be a on a shitty, useless card.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 15, 2010, 08:36:47 AM
M-maybe it'll be the blue Eternal Witness! O-or some variation of Tinker, or uh... uh... It's gonna suck isn't it.  :;_;:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on December 15, 2010, 11:05:47 AM
It kind of reminds me of the old Regneration art (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?printed=true&multiverseid=1262). I could swear we've seen that schematic design before, but I don't recall what card that was.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 15, 2010, 01:36:28 PM
I think similar designs have been on a couple of cards, actually.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on December 15, 2010, 03:22:34 PM
Man, looking at that old Regeneration ... remember when the art for Magic could be all stylized and sparse and whatnot?  And wasn't all this hyperrealistic super-busy space fantasy nonsense?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 15, 2010, 04:56:40 PM
Funny. I was just bemoaning that to Mongrel the other day in regards to the Serendib Efreet from FTV: Exiled. He looks lame and forgettable in comparison to Doubleface Stingerhanded Serendib Efreet, or even Misprinted Wine Connoisseur Serendib Efreet.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 15, 2010, 06:14:31 PM
I think it's been a tradeoff. They completely abandoned stylied art, but the quality of the draughtsmanship is WAY higher than it used to be.

In any case, I'm more than happy that the art is vastly better than it was from say Onslaught to Future Sight, when it was just as bland and uninspired, but also of very poor quality (I'm generalizing, obviously... there were a few worthwhile pieces in every set).

One thing's for sure. I think they've finally given up their last hope of ever attracting women or other age groups, because the average T&A quotient has really ramped up in the past year or two.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on December 15, 2010, 06:57:24 PM
I think it's pretty interesting to compare this image (http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/arcana/602_a6151qk10i.jpg) to Phyrexian Rager (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=201790). The former's obviously inspired by the latter, but is this going to be a straight-up reprint? Maybe just a mechanical reference—bigger body, bigger cost, draw more cards, lose more life?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 15, 2010, 07:25:54 PM
Well, don't forget they already had a larger version (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=26699).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 15, 2010, 09:35:04 PM
I think it's been a tradeoff. They completely abandoned stylied art, but the quality of the draughtsmanship is WAY higher than it used to be.

In any case, I'm more than happy that the art is vastly better than it was from say Onslaught to Future Sight, when it was just as bland and uninspired, but also of very poor quality (I'm generalizing, obviously... there were a few worthwhile pieces in every set).

One thing's for sure. I think they've finally given up their last hope of ever attracting women or other age groups, because the average T&A quotient has really ramped up in the past year or two.

Well, during the Time Spiral/Lorwyn era I could tell that the artists were having fun with the subject matter. With the Time Spiral Block it was a return to some of the more simple concepts, but with new twists. The trend continued in Lorwyn with all the whimsical and oddball ways to convey the 'storybook' theme*.

I think the pendulum is swung too far in the opposite direction these days. Everything's gotta be SERIOUS because this is MAGIC and magic is POWER and GRAVITAS and SMOLDERING GENERIC RAGE. There's no real joy or whimsy in the artwork anymore. You're spot on about the T&A, though. I dunno if it's keeping certain demographics away, but I certainly do see a lot more cleavage in the artwork. So yeah.

*sShadowmoor was okay. It felt phoned-in at times though.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on December 16, 2010, 05:06:52 AM
I'd like to see another flash forward to the future, but for Wizards to go Back to the Future II on it.  I mean, "The shark still looks fake."


Also, I want a reprint of my favorite card: Bouncing Beebles (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=12372).


Artifactwalk.   :whoops:


Oh my god.  I just thought of a combo for it.


Leyline of Sanctity + Jinxed Idol + Bouncing Beebles.  Give the Idol to the opponent, and then start smashing them in the face with adorable fuzzies!


!!! Magiccards.info lists them at a nickel a piece!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 16, 2010, 07:10:44 AM
I think it's been a tradeoff. They completely abandoned stylied art, but the quality of the draughtsmanship is WAY higher than it used to be.

In any case, I'm more than happy that the art is vastly better than it was from say Onslaught to Future Sight, when it was just as bland and uninspired, but also of very poor quality (I'm generalizing, obviously... there were a few worthwhile pieces in every set).

One thing's for sure. I think they've finally given up their last hope of ever attracting women or other age groups, because the average T&A quotient has really ramped up in the past year or two.

Well, during the Time Spiral/Lorwyn era I could tell that the artists were having fun with the subject matter. With the Time Spiral Block it was a return to some of the more simple concepts, but with new twists. The trend continued in Lorwyn with all the whimsical and oddball ways to convey the 'storybook' theme*.

I think the pendulum is swung too far in the opposite direction these days. Everything's gotta be SERIOUS because this is MAGIC and magic is POWER and GRAVITAS and SMOLDERING GENERIC RAGE. There's no real joy or whimsy in the artwork anymore. You're spot on about the T&A, though. I dunno if it's keeping certain demographics away, but I certainly do see a lot more cleavage in the artwork. So yeah.

*sShadowmoor was okay. It felt phoned-in at times though.

For what it's worth, TS Block was when the current art director took over.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 16, 2010, 07:57:45 AM
Either this new art director is getting lazy or more stylish, distinct artists are jumping ship. Heck, Ron Spencer's got only one piece of artwork in Standard right now, and he's been a Magic mainstay since the beginning.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 16, 2010, 08:29:02 PM
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah! (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=113452&d=1292500570)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 16, 2010, 08:30:53 PM
It says Vintage.

That's not Vintage.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 16, 2010, 08:49:41 PM
Well, teeeeeeeechnically it is.

Buuuuuuuuuuuut...
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on December 21, 2010, 03:06:48 PM
I MADE THE BOUNCING BEEBLES DECK.

Now I just need a playset of the Unhinged beebles.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 21, 2010, 08:28:54 PM
(http://i55.tinypic.com/9sfeoo.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 28, 2010, 06:41:31 PM
My sister informed me that she had singlehandedly revived MTG amongst her circle of friends. I was so aghast proud, I gave her my Ninja deck.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 31, 2010, 09:25:09 AM
Hey McDohl, I think you might like this:

http://www.mananation.com/casualnation-13-commanders-kingdoms/ (http://www.mananation.com/casualnation-13-commanders-kingdoms/)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on January 02, 2011, 10:41:50 AM
Neat article.

However, I chose another general, as Lu Bu's kinda pricey.  He's still in the deck, but whatevers.

So here's the I TROL U Jinxed Idol Merry Christmas deck I came up with:

LAND:

12x Island
7x Plains
2x Sejiri Refuge (W/U lifegain land.  I'd like some of the rare dual lands, but I already have them in decks)

CREATURES:
4x Bouncing Beebles (2U, 2/2, has artifactwalk.  LOL)
4x Storm Crow (1U, 1/2, Flying.  Fodder for giving the Jinxed Idol to the opponent)
4x Squadron Hawk (1W 1/1 Flying.  Can fetch out the other three from the deck.)

ARTIFACTS/ENCHANTMENTS
4x Jinxed Idol (Deals 2 damage to its controller at upkeep.  You can sacrifice a creature to pass the idol to someone else.)
4x Leyline of Sanctity (2WW, can be put in to play if you draw it as your opening hand.  You gain troll shroud.  Keeps the Jinxed Idol from coming back.)

INSTANT/SORCERY
4x Day of Judgment (Board wipe for safety.  Was originally Mind Control, but I thought "meh" about it.)
4x Mana Leak (no.)
4x Counterspell (I SAID NO)
4x Condemn (Personal protection)

OTHER
2x Jace, The Mindsculptor (How fitting that my LOL TROLLIN deck has a super-card.)
1x Jace Beleren (I had one laying around, and it's the Japanese promo jace from the duel deck.)

My friend gave me two of this card from Onslaught, and I laughed for a while.

Seaside Haven: Land: T: add 1 to mana pool / WU, T, Sac a Bird: Draw a card.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 02, 2011, 10:56:01 AM
-4 Storm Crow
+4 Augury Owl, Neurok Familiar, Owl Familar, Sage Owl, Thrummingbird, Spire Owl or Tempest Owl

STRICTLY BETTER THAN STORM CROW

If you want non-bird shenanegins, may I suggest Gilded Drake?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on January 02, 2011, 11:15:46 AM
Oh wait.  I realized that I can chump-block with a bird and still feed it the card-drawing Alkaseltzer tablet.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on January 03, 2011, 06:45:11 PM
So my FLGS started running Extended events on Monday nights.  I went tonight and one of the Friday regulars was there, and another guy I didn't know.  Just three of us, but we did a fun thing.

I played my own variant on Soul Sisters, with Behemoth Sledges and a Felidar Sovereign.  Avatar Aang (created by Ajani Goldmane) seems to be appearing less and less.  I'm somewhat saddened, but the deck worked swimmingly.  It still has a problem with spot removal (Terminate, Maelstrom Pulse, Doomblade, etc.).

But the thing STOMPLED.  I was getting 2 to 3 Soul Sisters in my opening hand, enough mana to get the deck running swimmingly.  Every game I played let me get a Baneslayer Angel out.  Probably the best the deck has performed in a long time.

Now to introduce my Red/Black FYI I AM A DICK to the douche moves of Terminate and Blightning.  <3
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on January 03, 2011, 06:55:26 PM
I recently played a sliver deck against a poorly-built green elves deck.

Ended up doing 1800+ dmg in one turn.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 03, 2011, 08:28:51 PM
Maaaan, I just want to build more EDH decks. I have the skeletal framework for a Godo, Bandit Warlord (http://magiccards.info/chk/en/169.html) deck, but I also want to do up one for Ezuri, Renegade Leader (http://magiccards.info/som/en/119.html) and Phelddagrif (http://magiccards.info/ai/en/196.html).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mothra on January 03, 2011, 09:18:46 PM
Luigi screams for 10 seconds. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBRSTXBBpRU#)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on January 04, 2011, 05:50:44 AM
Buge, you got some fantastic Bant cards for Pheldagrif.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: VgameT on January 10, 2011, 03:27:26 PM
http://somemangas.com/manga/Magic_the_Gathering/1/ (http://somemangas.com/manga/Magic_the_Gathering/1/)

What the fffffffffffuck is this
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 10, 2011, 04:20:39 PM
It appears to be a Manga starring Chandra Nalaar.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 10, 2011, 06:02:39 PM
Oh hey, I hadn't actually seen the Manga itself. Cute.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on January 10, 2011, 06:28:13 PM
Why am I reading the book from left to right but the individual pages from right to left.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 10, 2011, 06:47:57 PM
I'm confused. Are you unfamiliar with Japanese (text reads from right to left) or just complaining about counterintuitive web design (i.e. the page indicator on the top scrolls from left to right)?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on January 10, 2011, 06:54:43 PM
When you read a manga that hasn't been flipped horizontally during the translation process, the book itself reads from right to left. As in, when you hold the book in your hands and look at the front cover, the binding is on the right side of the book. On this website they keep the pages in their original form, but the arrows on the screen indicate reading from the left side of a book to the right.

I'm just being OCD.

EDIT:

Also I read the first few pages and this is basically Avatar: The Last Airbender but with an extra element, they added MTG masks to everyone's face, and replaced the main character with the cookie-cutter "pretty but naïve girl who doesn't understand her own power and is always getting in trouble because she is such a free spirit and The Man is just tryina keep her down."

I don't know why this is bothering me so much I'm gonna go stare at my bedroom wall.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on January 10, 2011, 07:20:30 PM
Well, obviously it goes against the incredibly high standards set by MtG tie-in fiction, and tabletop game tie-in fiction in general.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 17, 2011, 03:37:07 PM
(http://i55.tinypic.com/xej33s.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on January 17, 2011, 03:51:18 PM
U mad, blue?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on January 18, 2011, 03:22:52 AM
The meat of the set so far is color-vanilla "if stuff goes to the graveyard" effects. There is this though:

(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/sf/sf126_mdnsjaissj.jpg)

* # If each player controls a Consecrated Sphinx, their abilities will cause each other to trigger until one player chooses not to draw cards.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on January 18, 2011, 05:19:00 AM
Which would be sometime before they deck themselves and lose the game, I'm sure.

Still, amusing.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on January 18, 2011, 02:01:16 PM
Meanwhile, whiners everywhere are throwing up their hands over this card:

(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/mbs/7ftjkqva3x_en.jpg)

Whether you love to panic about longshot tutor/ramp scenarios or you just think revisiting the well for nostalgia/storytelling's sake is creatively bankrupt, there's something here for everyone!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on January 18, 2011, 02:32:51 PM
 
Meanwhile, whiners everywhere are throwing up their hands over this card:

(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/mbs/7ftjkqva3x_en.jpg)

Whether you love to panic about longshot tutor/ramp scenarios or you just think revisiting the well for nostalgia/storytelling's sake is creatively bankrupt, there's something here for everyone!

(T): Target opponent without creatures in play loses the game.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on January 18, 2011, 03:30:11 PM
Sure, but you have to use Shape Anew (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=194201) or Kuldotha Forgemaster (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=215098) shenanigans (or an obvious and disruptable ramp strategy) to get it online before turn 12. And even then:

Act of Treason (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205072). Condemn (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205098). Disperse (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=212242). Brittle Effigy (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205002).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 18, 2011, 03:32:40 PM
It's not Standard/Type 2 I'm worried about with this thing.

But really, I'm just dead tired of big fucking stupid Timmy I-WINZ-TEH-GAAAAME!!!!1 cards.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on January 19, 2011, 05:06:04 AM
The cards with the Karn images are a creature enchantment that gives infect and a card draw instant. Exciting.

I presume they want to make a Karn planeswalker for the last set depending on who wins but damn, Wizards. You've been better at this thing.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 19, 2011, 05:27:22 AM
Everybody likes that Terese Nielsen piece.

Which of course means it'll be a on a shitty, useless card.

(http://castlesandcooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/225061135.jpg)

It's... really not that bad. Sort of like Ashnod's Transmogrant, but it can't be used offensively.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on January 19, 2011, 06:20:31 AM
Put that on the Metalcraft angel that gives all your artifacts shroud.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on January 19, 2011, 06:52:20 AM
The problems with that card are:
1) Makes your creature twice as vulnerable to removal;
2) Despite the flavor text, does not do a damn thing against infect.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 19, 2011, 10:41:50 AM
The problems with that card are:
1) Makes your creature twice as vulnerable to removal;
2) Despite the flavor text, does not do a damn thing against infect.

True. but like McDohl said, it works well with metalcraft. You could also feed the creature to a Barrage Ogre or Pump it with a Golem Artisan. Snap it on a Goblin token and you've got a self-renewing resource for Kuldotha Rebirth. Put it on a creature with shroud and you've got a Phylactery Lich's new best friend. Shape Anew, Steel Overseer, Tempered Steel, Voltaic Key...

The point is, I'm sure there's someone out there who could find a way to break this thing.

In regards to #2, the Neurok never claimed they got it right the first time.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 19, 2011, 03:13:54 PM
2) Despite the flavor text, does not do a damn thing against infect.

That part made everyone I know laugh. "Way to NOT rise to the challenge, guys!"
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on January 19, 2011, 03:15:56 PM
Well, it ... lets you have one more poison counter before you die?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 19, 2011, 05:36:52 PM
"Good news, sir! The agents who wear the armor die slightly slower than those who don't!"

"Excellent. Break out the blinkmoth juice, we're getting stinko."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 21, 2011, 04:17:00 PM
This is!... what is this?!

(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114463&d=1295637568)

HILARIOUS!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 21, 2011, 05:14:54 PM
TEN-TURN CLOCKS

TEN-TURN CLOCKS EVERYWHERE
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on January 27, 2011, 03:28:52 AM
@maro254: Let me clear this up: The winner was decided by us when we designed the block. The players do *not* influence who wins.

In case anyone held hope this block had anything interesting in it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on January 27, 2011, 03:46:08 AM
I did not realize there was ambiguity on that point. "Mirrodin Pure" would have meant the Phyrexians were eliminated entirely, suggesting that we wouldn't be getting any infect or proliferate cards. "New Phyrexia" just implies that the Phyrexians win; it doesn't depend on the problematic absence of the opposite faction.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 27, 2011, 04:05:33 AM
They're just going to have to learn to get along.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 27, 2011, 07:05:57 AM
Yeah, they made that clear months ago. Anyone who still thought the players had a chance to influence things is way off base. Wizards has basically moved AWAY from letting players touch anything, as their small experiences with that have been generally terrible (You Make The Card, invitational cards), though it's worth pointing out that that's mostly due to Wizards meddling in the process and the too-many-cooks problem in the case of the former. It is worth noting that one of the best-designed cards of all time - Meddling Mage - was an invitational card.

If I felt like typing up a long post (that's funny because it's me), I'd tell the story of old-school L5R, which basically set the bar forever for having the game and storyline being directly affected by player actions.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on January 27, 2011, 07:31:40 AM
I stopped following L5R a long time ago but I loved the fuck out of that game, and the whole storyline tournament concept was a fantastic way to get players involved.  More so under Rich Wulf than Ree Soesbee, but even then.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 27, 2011, 10:26:05 AM
I think the thing that kills me is that it was SO SUCCESSFUL for getting players REALLY ENGAGED with the product, but I've never seen another game company take even a withering halfhearted stab at something similar.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on January 27, 2011, 10:34:15 AM
I was always intrigued by L5R's approach, but I was kind of puzzled by the people who thought Scars block might mirror that structure, because nothing about the way WOTC does things would afford that possibility. They have no logistical system for TOs to report back on prerelease or game day faction allegiance; they design sets years in advance, and actually print them like six months before release, meaning the "results" of player-based decisions wouldn't be relevant to the then-current storyline; they have a significantly larger userbase, meaning the risks inherent in shaking up their established release formula are significantly magnified. The curse of being relatively successful means they can't be nearly as experimental as a smaller franchise or product could.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 27, 2011, 10:55:25 AM
Well, I know Wizards has been the Microsoft of the CCG/RPG world for years now, so expecting them to innovate is probably asking a bit much. But I was always surprised that literally NO OTHER CCG of any note sought to emulate L5R. Nor have I seen any tabletop game company do it either.

I mean, granted, it's not like you can have storyline tournaments with uncertain outcomes for franchised stuff like Star Wars or LotR, but standalone properties certainly could have.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 27, 2011, 10:55:51 AM
I'm given to understand that Games Workshop allowed tournament outcomes to influence Warhammer 40k, specifically the most recent summer event that allowed the Chaos faction to take and hold the Imperial world of Cadia. I have a feeling the only reason that they'd make such a gamble is because the sales and event attendance numbers are dropping.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 27, 2011, 10:57:01 AM
Heh. Dropping, eh? Good for Privateer Press.

Now if we give it another ten years, maybe we'll see a relevant competitor shake up WotC. Har har.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on January 27, 2011, 12:15:01 PM
I was always intrigued by L5R's approach, but I was kind of puzzled by the people who thought Scars block might mirror that structure, because nothing about the way WOTC does things would afford that possibility. They have no logistical system for TOs to report back on prerelease or game day faction allegiance; they design sets years in advance, and actually print them like six months before release, meaning the "results" of player-based decisions wouldn't be relevant to the then-current storyline; they have a significantly larger userbase, meaning the risks inherent in shaking up their established release formula are significantly magnified. The curse of being relatively successful means they can't be nearly as experimental as a smaller franchise or product could.

I imagined something like designing two sets - they certainly have designers to do so. Then check the sales of boosters for each faction on the first month or first three months, and give the print orders just in time to get the cards for sale. Yes, it'd be complicated, but it would drive the audience nuts.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on January 27, 2011, 12:17:26 PM
Well, I know Wizards has been the Microsoft of the CCG/RPG world for years now, so expecting them to innovate is probably asking a bit much. But I was always surprised that literally NO OTHER CCG of any note sought to emulate L5R. Nor have I seen any tabletop game company do it either.

Well, 7th Sea and Deadlands did too sort of, but same company doesn't really count.

I feel like 99% of set design can be storyline-independent though.  Swap names and flavor on stuff when the tourney results come in, you're gold.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 27, 2011, 12:45:07 PM
Heh. Dropping, eh? Good for Privateer Press.

Not really. Miniature sales are dropping across the board. Monsterpocalypse's next set is in limbo, WotC ended D&D Miniatures, and Rackham is in liquidation.

Now if we give it another ten years, maybe we'll see a relevant competitor shake up WotC. Har har.

I hear Pathfinder's got them sweating pretty good. But since Hasbro swept the company up, the PnP end of things hasn't really been WotC's focus. It doesn't have a collectible or game-y quality like the rest of their products. You can't re-buy a handbook you already own and you have to use your imagination rather than a card you can buy in a booster.

oh wait (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Product.aspx?x=dnd/products/dndacc/316020000)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 27, 2011, 01:21:07 PM
Heh. Dropping, eh? Good for Privateer Press.

Not really. Miniature sales are dropping across the board. Monsterpocalypse's next set is in limbo, WotC ended D&D Miniatures, and Rackham is in liquidation.

Now if we give it another ten years, maybe we'll see a relevant competitor shake up WotC. Har har.

I hear Pathfinder's got them sweating pretty good. But since Hasbro swept the company up, the PnP end of things hasn't really been WotC's focus. It doesn't have a collectible or game-y quality like the rest of their products. You can't re-buy a handbook you already own and you have to use your imagination rather than a card you can buy in a booster.

oh wait (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Product.aspx?x=dnd/products/dndacc/316020000)

Well, I know Privateer's been doing okay (as in they're not in any danger at least and may even be expanding a little). It's only anecdotal, but more and more I hear Warmachine/Hordes as folks' first choice for getting into tabletop gaming.

The most basic difference is that the production quality is as good as GW, but simply requires far fewer models to play. Entry-level play is simply far less daunting.

If GW is sinking and PP is at least staying flat (or even growing a tiny bit), I would say they are the main threat, yes. The smaller game companies like Rackham aren't really a factor - hundreds (maybe even thousands) of companies have come and gone in the past 40 years that produced minis that could be used with any rules of your choice (i.e. they just produce the figures. Sure, some have their own rule sets, but really the following for those is so small and localized that even if they hadn't put out a rule set, it wouldn't have made much difference to their overall bottom line or market share. tl;dr: The bit players are functionally just minis companies, not game companies.

I've said it before, but Magic is basically comparable to Warhammer in the regards that it has a reliably large playerbase, is monolithic and stable, and has a long history (and the ccg world's only remaining tournament system with relevant prize payouts). But again, like Warhammer, it's seen as a rich kid's game. Or at least a pasttime you have to sink large money into. I mean, gripers have been saying that for nearly 20 years, sure, but for most of Magic's history when you really looked for yourself, you could see that wasn't true, that there were several affordable tournament formats. Now, not so much.

Magic needs a real competitor again, something to shake them up and scare them. But I doubt we'll see one anytime soon.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 29, 2011, 08:10:29 AM
So prerelease was fun! We got the poison dice and temporary tattoos. I was one of three people who went Mirran and we all made red-white decks. I won 2 and lost 2. The ironic thing was that I only lost against other Mirrans. I might even make a white weenie deck to put my Hero of Bladehold in. Oh yeah, and Contested War Zone can go eat a dick for being a waste of a rare.

MIRRAN 4 LYFE

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/buge/sigs/gangstakoth.gif)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on January 29, 2011, 04:18:31 PM
Magic pre release was a blast. Ended up taking first! Finals were Phyrexian VS Phyrexian. Was a two headed giant tournament. Deck list upcoming. Highlights include.
x1 Massacre Wurm
x1 Carnifex Demon
x1 Geth, Lord of the Vault.
From the winnings I pulled.
x1 Massacre Worm!
x1 BlightSteel Colossus?!
x1 Phyrexia Rebirth
x1 Knowledge Pool
x1 Thopter Assembly.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on January 29, 2011, 05:00:48 PM
1 Geth Lord of the Vault
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Carnifex Demon
1 Massacre Wurm
1 Skinrender
1 Nested Ghoul
1 Gruesome Encore
1 Spread the Sickness
1 Fuel for the Cause
1 Viltion Reins
1 Corrupted Conscience
1 Vedalken Anatomist
1 Disperse
1 Neurok Invisimancer
2 Tumble Magnet
1 Silver Myr
1 Contagion Clasp
1 Grafted Exoskeleton
1 Strandwalker
1 Golem Artisan
1 Moriok Replica
10 Swamp
8 Island
My partners deck.
3 Phyrexian Digestor
2 Blightwidow
2 Scrounge Servant
1 Rot Wolf
1 Septic Rats
1 Core Prowler
1 Flesh-Eater Imp
1 Phyrexian Vatmother
1 Vector Asp
1 Corpse Cur
1 Cystbearer
1 Leaden Myr
1 Viridian Emissary
1 Darksteel Axe
1 Skinwing
2 Pistus Strike
1 Slice in Twain
1 Morbid Plunder
9 Swamp
8 Forest
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on January 30, 2011, 10:16:04 AM
Prerelease went down today for me, as the venue was so crowded they had to split the event.

Precon event, My rare for the pack in the precon:

BLIGHTSTEEL COLOSSUS

Then, during the actual event, One of my Scars packs had a Koth in it.  I'm actually contemplating a red/black infect thing with lots of flash buff, Koth animating infecty lands.

I'm also thinking about making a Shape Anew deck with Blightsteel.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 30, 2011, 11:37:04 AM
Naw dogg, go G/R with Clone Shell and Ancient Stirringses.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on January 30, 2011, 11:54:59 AM
Yeah, but that only works if Blightsteel is on the top five of the deck.  I can't really think of a thing that could do that, short of the deck manipulation of blue.

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 30, 2011, 11:59:26 AM
Speaking of which, Treasure Mage is everyone's new best friend.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on January 31, 2011, 09:37:00 AM
Played the Shape Anew deck today in an actual game today.  Turn 3 Trinket Mage, Turn 4 Shape Anew with no problems.  Polymorphed in to one of the two Wurmcoil Engines.  Opponent played a Wolfbriar Elemental with a lot of kicking, so I Day the field.  Shape Anew my lifelink Wurm token, get the other Wurmcoil Engine.  I Day of Judgement again to stop his second Wolfbriar.  Jace the Bankbreaker, brainstorm with him, have the Blightsteel, another DoJ.  He kills Jace, plays ANOTHER Wolfbriar.  I See Beyond the Blightsteel back in to the deck, and Shape Anew with my last possible Wurm token.  Get the Blightsteel, then Day of Judgement.  Here's the deck list.  As always, I'm open to suggestion.

LAND
6x Plains
10x Island
4x Glacial Fortress
3x Celestial Colonnade

INSTANTS, SORCERIES, ENCHANTMENTS
4x Day of Judgement (The sole reason for the W splash.)
4x Spreading Seas (Draw advantage and jacking with opponent's mana base)
4x Shape Anew (Target artifact is sacced, then its owner reveals cards from the top of the library until an artifact is hit.  It comes in to play.  Other revealed cards are shuffled back in.)
4x Mana Leak and Negate (Slow them the hell down in case the deck isn't working as well as it should.)
4x Preordain (To stack the deck in my favor, but also for the card advantage.)
4x See Beyond (Draw 2, shuffle 1 back in to the deck.  OOPS!  BLIGHTSTEEL COLOSSUS WAS MY TURN ONE DRAW.)

CREATURES
1x Blightsteel Colossus (12 mana, 11/11 Trample, infect, indistructible, and shuffles back in to the library if it hits the graveyard from anywhere.  This is what I want to Shape Anew in to.)
2x Wurmcoil Engine (6 mana artifact creature, 6/6 Deathtouch, Lifelink.  When it dies in play, it splits in to two 3/3 artifact Wurms, one with Deathtouch and one with Lifelink.  Also a good second if it's not Blightsteel.  Will also generate more artifacts to Shape Anew in case things are really going south.
4x Trinket Mage (Their existence is solely to pull out...)
1x Chimeric Mass (X-cost artifact, comes in to play with X charge counters.  pay 1: Becomes an artifact creature with X/X, where X is the number of charge counters on the artifact.  This is my target for Shape Anew.)

2x Jace, The Bankbreaker (Deckfixing, and HOLY SHIT IT'S JACE KILL HIM INSTEAD OF THE PLAYER FUCK FUCK FUCK)


EDIT: Is there anything blue or even white that will spit out artifact tokens, but is not in itself an artifact?  Myrsmith doesn't count, because I have to cast artifacts to get the token.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on January 31, 2011, 10:03:08 AM
Um. Master's Call (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=221554)?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on January 31, 2011, 11:47:16 AM
Wow.  Then I need some Mirran cards.  I'll probably swap out a Day, a Leak, a Negate, and a...See Beyond?  I'm gonna proxy some stuff up.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on January 31, 2011, 12:41:09 PM
I guess Phyrexian Rebirth (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=214048) also qualifies, but generally you're going to find Day of Judgment superior. Nothing useful in blue, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on January 31, 2011, 12:53:37 PM

Still, spitting out 2 Myr at instant-speed is tasty.  I'm playing a few test hands right now.  I'm gonna play a deck against it now.


EDIT: played it against both my R/G land ramp/scute mobs/rampaging baloths mess.  Won 2 in a row, getting either the Wurmcoil or Colossus on turn 4.  I need to add one of the new creatures, the 1GG 2/2 infecty guy that blows up an artifact when it comes in to play.


Then I played it against my Soul Sisters lifegain deck.  That was a little rougher, but I took it down 2 out of three.  The game that Shape Anew lost, Ajani's Pridemate aggroed its face off.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on February 03, 2011, 08:34:14 AM
http://www.mananation.com/nerdcore-rap-mirrodin-besieged/ (http://www.mananation.com/nerdcore-rap-mirrodin-besieged/)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on February 03, 2011, 11:06:10 AM
That was just horrible.. Not even funny horrible.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on February 03, 2011, 11:25:42 AM
Well, yes.  Nerdcore.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 03, 2011, 01:01:42 PM
I was thinking about a Shape Anew deck. Then I realized I had four of these.

(http://www.mtgvault.com/images/cards/SOM/Precursor_Golem.jpg)

So my plan is this: Blue with a splash of white, with some big artifact bombs. Possibly Myr Battlesphere.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on February 04, 2011, 09:25:15 AM
So, the winter weather stopped my MBS box from coming to the store today, so I decided to pop my head in to a Walmart, as they sometimes have cool stuff just laying around for MTG.

I happen across a Worldwake fat pack.  "Cool."  I thought to myself, and picked it up.

GUYS, THIS FAT PACK WAS THE BEST FAT PACK IN THE HISTORY OF EVER.

Abyssal Persecutor

Novablast Wurm

JACE, THE BANK BREAKER.

Foil R/B Man Land.

It's like the RNG of the cosmos took a look at my Worldwake wish list and decided "Hey, let's give him what he wants.  PLUS A JACE."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 04, 2011, 12:19:19 PM
Uuuuugh, draft was terrible tonight

I pulled a Tezzeret in my first pack and it threw me off from drafting anything decent. We do rare re-draft, so I knew I'd never be able to keep it. Furthermore, we only drafted Besieged. Second pack, Blightsteel. Third pack, Inkmoth Nexus and a foil Spine of Ish Shah.

I should have dropped.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on February 04, 2011, 12:29:29 PM
You uh, opened the top money card in the set and the number three, as well as the second-highest value rare? Yeah, you probably should have dropped.

Though if it's any consolation, this set's looking to have TERRIBLE valuation.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 04, 2011, 02:03:24 PM
I probably would have been kicked out if I did drop.

Funny thing is, Tezzeret looks to be the most common of the Mythic Rares in Besieged. I saw about seven today. Two of which were in the draft.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on February 04, 2011, 02:17:04 PM
Well, we sure as hell didn't get any in 2.333333... boxes.

Yeah, this was a bad set for us. We got 3x One Shot, The [sex] Robot (colossus) and nothing else of any worth in Mythic. No Tezzerets, Thruns, Draw-Draw Sphinxes, Massacre Wurms, OR Sword of Smith & Wessons. Did okay for Zeniths, but were fucked over hard on other decent rares.

Jesus, I would have been happy with just one Thrun or something.

It's okay, I'm sure Envy will be on later to crow about opening fifteen Tezzerets in one pack or something.  :wakka:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on February 04, 2011, 03:06:43 PM
I got 2 massacre wurms from pre release. Do I really need to go further on pack cracking happiness?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on February 04, 2011, 11:23:54 PM
No, no you don't.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on February 07, 2011, 10:34:14 AM
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/zaphodava/unbearable.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on February 07, 2011, 10:47:24 AM
Is Forest Bear missing a chromosome?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on February 07, 2011, 11:34:21 AM
There's only one way to be sure. He'll have to bare all.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 07, 2011, 12:59:18 PM
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2qtiw01.png)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on February 07, 2011, 01:05:57 PM
Coat of Arms?  Is that legal/worth it?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on February 07, 2011, 01:58:36 PM
Should have been a blue and/or white Birds deck vs a green Bees deck.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on February 07, 2011, 02:33:23 PM
Don't forget:

Caller Of The Claw
Bear Umbra
Muraganda Petroglyphs
Llanowar Reborn
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on February 07, 2011, 02:39:39 PM
And modern Giant Growths, because it's got a giant bear on it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on February 07, 2011, 02:41:16 PM
Grizzly Bears + Bear Umbra = I HAVE THE ENERGY OF A BEAR THAT HAS THE ENERGY OF TWO BEARS

Besieged has some good Insect cards, too.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on February 07, 2011, 02:43:20 PM
Grizzly Bears + Bear Umbra = I HAVE THE ENERGY OF A BEAR THAT HAS THE ENERGY OF TWO BEARS
(http://magiccards.info/scans/en/m11/178.jpg)
THREE BEARS
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on February 07, 2011, 02:44:21 PM
On a related note, how long do you think it'll be before the inevitable Duel Decks: Vampires vs. Werewolves?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on February 07, 2011, 03:10:22 PM
Oh, fuck, a threebear.  All is lost.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 07, 2011, 11:40:47 PM
On a related note, how long do you think it'll be before the inevitable Duel Decks: Vampires vs. Werewolves?

First they'd have to print some werewolves that didn't suck.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on February 08, 2011, 08:38:15 PM
After kicking the decent Devon Rule out of the designer search, the design team let loose this gem on why they make crap cards:

Quote
Why go to such lengths to first make disgustingly bad cards, then include one in a fixed deck product?
If you do it just right, a new player will take out a card and put in a card they like better from their booster pack. This is the behavior we want to teach players who purchase Intro Packs.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on February 08, 2011, 08:54:59 PM
It probably wasn't necessary for them to actually confirm what everybody already knew.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on February 08, 2011, 09:42:28 PM
I don't know. Being a programmer and game developer, I always assume everything is caused by incompetence.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on February 09, 2011, 07:49:43 AM
Who says that statement doesn't indicate incompetence in addition to the more obvious things it displays?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 10, 2011, 12:47:52 PM
Something's sticking in my craw. The prevailing opinion I hear most often is that Phyrexia's going to win, Phyrexia's superior, etc. yet the Phyrexian cards are, on the whole, average. Infect doesn't seem to make many waves outside of draft, and a lot of proliferate cards are mostly around to shore up Quests and Planeswalkers. I dunno about anyone else's experience, but it seems like there's a disconnect between the perceived strength and actual strength. Yeah I know, flavour vs. mechanics, what a surprise.

While I'm on the subject of flavour, another thing occurs to me. Up until a few blocks ago, most of the threats that the block revolved around had been self-contained. Now we've got at least three things threatening the multiverse at large: Nicol Bolas, the Eldrazi and now Phyrexia. I wonder if that's to keep the whole 'Planes-hopping' thing from getting too episodic or keep threats around for Jace and the Wheeled Warriors to butt heads with. Could be both.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on February 10, 2011, 12:53:18 PM
That and a ham-handed corporate attempt to recreate the old "overarching villain" themes from many years ago. Nobody's saying that MTG plots were ever the greatest, but the old ones were capable of drawing at least a little emotional attachment.

Phyrexia's not coming back for any real immediate storyline reason. It's just coming back so that... Phyrexia will be back.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on February 10, 2011, 04:48:19 PM
The top five cards in Besieged at the moment are Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=214065) (unaligned), Thrun, the Last Troll (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=214050) (Mirran), Inkmoth Nexus (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=213731) (Phyrexian), Green Sun's Zenith (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=221559) (Phyrexian), and Sword of Feast and Famine (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=214070) (Mirran), in that order. The winning draft deck at PT Paris this weekend was GB Infect, but so far it looks like Block Constructed favors the Mirrans. Mechanically, they mean for it to be a close fight; people just say the Phyrexians are favored because so many of the things Mirrans "do well" just don't matter in the context of the conflict. Indestructibility and lifegain are normally-powerful mechanics on the Mirran side, but Phyrexia can either ignore it through infect or co-opt it into something greater (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=214070).

The reason it's obvious the Phyrexians will win is because WOTC believes the game will benefit from having additional villains. Additionally, the balance between Mirrans and Phyrexians in the first two sets implies that there will be an 80/20 split between Phyrexians and Mirrans in the last set. Finally, the set is either named "Mirrodin Pure" or "New Phyrexia"; while you can easily justify the presence of Mirrans (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/599) in New Phyrexia, it's much harder to justify the presence of Phyrexians (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6349728) in Mirrodin Pure.


This talk about block conflicts being self-contained started me wondering.

Ice Age: Self-contained conflict (consequences of the Brothers' War)
Mirage: Self-contained conflict (Mangara/Teferi/Jolrael vs Kaervek)
Tempest: Inter-block conflict (Weatherlight story)
Urza's Saga: Inter-block conflict (Weatherlight story)
Mercadian Masques: Inter-block conflict (Weatherlight story)
Invasion: Inter-block conflict (Weatherlight story)
Odyssey: Inter-block conflict (Otarian factions seek the Mirari)
Onslaught: Inter-block conflict (Otaria pt 2)
Mirrodin: Self-contained conflict (...although really, we're technically dealing with the Mirari again)
Champions of Kamigawa: Self-contained conflict (Spirit War)
Ravnica: Self-contained conflict (The breaking of the Guildpact)
Time Spiral: Inter-block conflict (Weatherlight/Mirari/Kamigawa/Ravnica Coda)
Lorwyn: Self-contained conflict* (Seelie Faerie tales)
Shadowmoor: Self-contained conflict* (Unseelie Faerie tales)
Shards of Alara: Self-contained conflict (Nicol Bolas decided to eat a planar pizza)
Zendikar: Self-contained conflict* (That is not dead, which can eternal lie)
Rise of the Eldrazi: Self-contained conflict* (And in strange aeons, even death may die)
Scars of Mirrodin: Inter-block conflict (Mirrodin Coda)

* When the normal block structure is bifurcated into two mini-blocks which have particularly strong mechanical interconnections, I'm considering them one single block for determining whether the conflict is self-contained.

It strikes me that, typically, self-contained blocks have unique characters and settings, but the situations usually originate out of circumstances that were set up in other parts of the story (Ice Age being the aftermath of the Brothers' War, Karn creating Mirrodin, the spiritual anomalies on Kamigawa and Ravnica setting up Time Spiral, or Zendikar/Rise establishing the Eldrazi menace, to be further dealt with later on). However, interconnected blocks follow many of the same characters, factions, and settings, but present relatively isolated situations and episodes. I'm not sure the categories have much meaningful distinction.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 10, 2011, 11:06:49 PM
The reason it's obvious the Phyrexians will win is because WOTC believes the game will benefit from having additional villains. Additionally, the balance between Mirrans and Phyrexians in the first two sets implies that there will be an 80/20 split between Phyrexians and Mirrans in the last set. Finally, the set is either named "Mirrodin Pure" or "New Phyrexia"; while you can easily justify the presence of Mirrans (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/599) in New Phyrexia, it's much harder to justify the presence of Phyrexians (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6349728) in Mirrodin Pure.

Something else occurs to me. The Phyrexian cards could have been designed with good draftability/poor constructibility simply to better facilitate the rumour that WotC will allow players to decide the outcome, even though it's already been decided. The relative strength of Infect cards in draft just makes it 'official.'
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on February 11, 2011, 05:00:16 AM
Inkwell Looter's Germ tokens look like penises.

That is all.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on February 11, 2011, 06:48:51 AM
Y'know, Mirrodin Pure is a perfectly apt name for a set describing how Mirrodin is purged of Phyrexian influence.  Or even being the slogan of people trying (and failing) to achieve just that.

Just sayin'.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on February 11, 2011, 10:07:47 AM
Maro's debunked the rumor pretty thoroughly now. Players don't get to decide.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on February 12, 2011, 12:35:47 AM
So, last night, Shape Anew got to make its grand entrance.

It beat everyone, including Hasty Rush Goblins.  A well-placed day of judgement on turn four, a full sideboard of Lethargy Traps during the second game, and I won!  :D

I also got to playtest my mono-black Myr pseudo-Infect deck.

I'll post the deck list shortly, but it's the first real deck idea I came up with myself, so I'm VERY proud of it.  It needs some tweaking, but I think it could be a great contender.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on February 12, 2011, 12:40:44 AM
Every time I read McDohl's triumphant tournament reports I note how different the decks are at that store from anything played in a major tournament.

It's not that my mind boggles that Dohl's opponents are that bad (I mean, come on, it's FNM), its that it boggles that not one seems to have even made a half-hearted attempt at basic netdecking.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on February 12, 2011, 02:59:45 AM
It's refreshing, actually.  It's no fun if everyone there plays Titan Ramp and uses cards to get the edge on everyone else's Titan Ramp. 

And now, the two decks from last night:

SHAPE ANEW 2.0, NOW WITH MORE BLIGHTSTEEL!

LAND
Seachrome Crest x4
Glacial Fortress x3
Inkmoth Nexus x4 (1-cost to turn this guy in to a 1/1 flying artifact creature with infect!  I can Shape Anew it too!)
Plains x4
Island x7

ARTIFACTS
Blightsteel Colossus x2
Chimeric Mass x1

CREATURES
Trinket Mage x4

SPELLS
Turn Aside x3 (1-cost that counters a spell that targets a permanent of mine.  Stops spot-kill on my artifacts, and spot-exile on Blightsteel)
Spell Pierce x3 (1-cost that counters a non-creature spell unless the caster pays an additional 2)
See Beyond x4 (Whoops, drew Blightsteel.  Let's get that back in the deck, shall we?)
Day of Judgment x3 (Board wipe for safety in case I get in over my head)
Spreading Seas x3 (Card draw and annoyance with mana)
Master's Call x4 (Spits out 2 Myr tokens at instant speed.  Surprise chump blockers and fodder for Shape Anew)
Preordain x4 (Deck fixing)
Shape Anew x4 (The Bread and Butter.  4 mana to Polymorph an artifact into another artifact.)

PLANESWALKER
Jace, the Mind Sculptor x3 (Card advantage, and the guy running Hasty Goblins last night made the mistake of emptying his hand trying to kill me.  So I -12'd him.)




Aaaand, mono-black ROYAL RAINBOW


LAND
Swamp x18


MANA MYR
Leaden Myr x4 (Black mana)
Plague Myr x4 (colorless, plus infect)


OTHER MYR
Myr Battlesphere x3 (The money shot.  This guy + a few artifacts below + a spell below = :D )
Myr Galvanizer x4 (Aids in pumping Myr in case things go south, plus it Twiddles all other Myr for Battlesphere for massive pumping.


NON-MYR ARTIFACTS
Myr Reservoir x4 (Extra mana for Myr spells, and has graveyard recursion.
Semblance Anvil x4 (Imprint an artifact or Myr on to it, and it discounts artifacts and/or creatures by 2 colorless.  Free mana myr?  5-cost Battlesphere?  SURE!)
Myr Turbine x4 (Tap to spit out a Myr token, and tap it and 5 untapped Myr to tutor out a Myr creature straight in to play.)
Crystal Ball x3 (Deck fixing.  Gotta love it.)


SPELLS
Grasp of Darkness x4 (Creature removal.)
Diabolic Tutor x4 (Card fetch.  I probably shouldn't use tutor.)
Tainted Strike x4 (The money shot.  Declare attack with a Battlesphere.  Tainted Strike in response, then tap all my Myr.  BAM, POISON COUNTERS.)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on February 12, 2011, 05:18:15 AM
Also, netdecking DOES exist at my venue in some form.  We have a few Quest for the Holy Relic decks running around (one of which I own).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on February 12, 2011, 05:47:05 AM
Hmm.  Those Flash Myr are pretty cheap right now.  Might snap up a play set.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 12, 2011, 11:47:15 PM
How would a Radha (http://magiccards.info/pc/en/162.html)-commanded ElfBall EDH deck work out in multiplayer? It seems like a viable build in one-on-one matches, but I don't typically play one-on-one EDH.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on February 13, 2011, 12:27:07 AM
Well, I'm a big fan of R/G.  Lemme get my Mayael The Anima deck out and I'll see some of the cool R/G cards I have in it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on February 13, 2011, 12:34:44 AM
I would say look at a conventional Elfball and figure out what you can get by adding red.

One thing that comes to mind are the ones that ramp huge mana - with red, you get access to a few X spells that can multi-target like Fireball.

One thing worth mentioning though, most EDH games I've played in the past six months involve either horrible unending stalemates or near-constant board clearing. Starr even built a R/B/U deck that's full of artifact mana to accelerate/rebuild, board sweepers that destroy land, creatures or both, and huge indestructible dudes like Ulamog and Darksteel Colossus since it pretty much plays into both trends.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on February 13, 2011, 01:42:04 AM
Nothing Elfball, really, but here's a couple of cards I have in my Mayael that might work.

Predatory Advantage (End of opponents' turns, if they didn't play a creature, you get a 2/2 green lizard token
Fires of Yavimaya (Creatures you control have haste, sac it to give a creature +2/+2 until end of turn)
Hull Breach (Destroy artifact or enchantment or artifact AND enchantment)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Beat Bandit on February 13, 2011, 03:57:51 AM
Someone I know went to Paris for some magic tourny. He was 9-1 after day one and slept late day two, being expelled.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on February 13, 2011, 04:06:16 AM
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH SNAP.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 13, 2011, 06:38:45 AM
I would say look at a conventional Elfball and figure out what you can get by adding red.

One thing that comes to mind are the ones that ramp huge mana - with red, you get access to a few X spells that can multi-target like Fireball.

One thing worth mentioning though, most EDH games I've played in the past six months involve either horrible unending stalemates or near-constant board clearing. Starr even built a R/B/U deck that's full of artifact mana to accelerate/rebuild, board sweepers that destroy land, creatures or both, and huge indestructible dudes like Ulamog and Darksteel Colossus since it pretty much plays into both trends.

Yes, I recall us sitting at the table asking "Are we dead yet? Are we dead yet?"

Hmm. An ElfBall deck does seem to lend itself to a more one-on-one play style, which I don't enjoy in the context of EDH. I may just go with a more conventional EDH design. This deck (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=249990) looks promising. I have a lot of the cards it would take to build, and the rest are mostly inexpensive.

Wait a minute.

Since when did Lightning Greaves (http://www.magiccards.info/mi/en/199.html) turn into a five-dollar card???
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on February 13, 2011, 09:44:21 AM
Since EDH.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 18, 2011, 04:36:50 AM
If you play EDH, you need to read this. (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/sf/130)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on February 18, 2011, 07:06:26 PM
Hey, here's an idea that a few of us were ruminating about over Grifball:

I have Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, and, say, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, and a Liquimetal Coating.  I tap Liquimetal Coating to make Jace an artifact, and then use Tezzeret's -1 to make him a 5/5 artifact creature.  Reading Tezz's effect, I don't think this would be very beneficial.  It doesn't say anything about "in addition to its other types" like Liquimetal Coating does.  I think, upon transformation, Jace would become a 5/5 artifact creature with none of his abilities intact.

EDIT: I'm reading on various internets that they DO retain their abilities, but they would take and receive combat damage as normal IN ADDITION TO Loyalty counters, so when their loyalty runs out, they explode as normal.


However, it can add another measure of protection to the relatively unprotected planeswalker if you were to, say, slap a whispersilk cloak on Robo-Jace or something.


I'm just trying to half-bake a janky idea involving Tezzeret turning Sorin Markov in to a robot, THEN using Captivating Vampire to make him an ACTUAL vampire instead of a fake one, slapping a Blade of the Bloodchief on him, and having him blast things with his +2.  Or running Esper colors and making Venser an unblockable Infecty guy with Phyresis.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on February 18, 2011, 08:46:46 PM
Even if you add Shroud to a creature-walker, your opponent can still damage its loyalty by targeting burn spells at you and choosing to reallocate the damage to your walker. What I don't know is whether it would do toughness damage as well in that scenario.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on February 18, 2011, 11:42:36 PM
Well, MTGSalvation and the like are buzzing about this, and probably Wizards' as well, so we might be getting some sort of dailymtg about it in the near future.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 19, 2011, 02:18:25 AM
So if LiquiTezz made Jace an artifact creature and I killed him with, say, Combust (assuming he retains his colour), would I be able to plop him into my Mimic Vat?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on February 19, 2011, 06:51:01 AM
According to this page (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=207883), yes, that works. Apparently you can even tack Stifle onto your four-card duplication machine to keep the token indefinitely.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on February 19, 2011, 07:23:11 AM
:o

...Excuse me.



Well, it seems to be a lot of effort for Jace-on-Demand.  When you stifle the removal at the end of the turn, what have you done?  You've succeeded in spitting out a Jace that, for all intents and purposes, is just another Jace. 
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on February 19, 2011, 09:18:15 AM
Yeah, it's a really convoluted series of cards and events to bring about what is essentially Memnarch (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=220532) or a slower Blatant Thievery (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=41156). What this scenario gains over those cards: the ability to spit out a replacement Jace for 3 mana, whenever you like, for the rest of the game. But mostly it's a funny, convoluted trick.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on February 19, 2011, 11:27:55 AM
There's an unspoken rule of sorts in MTG. Though granted, it only really applies to competitive Magic.

If your clever combo is more than three cards, forget it. If your clever combo doesn't win you the game and is more than two cards, also forget it (probably).

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 19, 2011, 12:05:21 PM
Today I traded a Suleiman's Legacy for a Raging Ravine.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/buge/reaction/gangsta.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on February 19, 2011, 12:47:17 PM
I obtained Thrumming Stones last night.

I have 22 Relentless Rats.

I'm gonna DO IT.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on February 19, 2011, 01:25:27 PM
The way Thrumming Stones is set up, spells that ripple into play themselves get the benefit of that ripple, right?  Just checkin'.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 19, 2011, 03:00:22 PM
I obtained Thrumming Stones last night.

I have 22 Relentless Rats.

I'm gonna DO IT.

Oh nooooooooooooo

(http://www.magicsphere.net/fenetres/Cartes/Cartes/images/ET/echoingtruth.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on February 19, 2011, 03:14:51 PM
moar liek

(http://magiccards.info/scans/en/arb/92.jpg)

amirite?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on February 19, 2011, 03:38:29 PM
If you see a happy puppy you just punch it in the face, don't you?

Fucking Canadians.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Bongo Bill on February 19, 2011, 04:03:55 PM
There are zillions of ways to deal with Relentless Rats. Even I know that, and I haven't played this game since 7th Edition. The fun is when your opponent doesn't use any of them.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 25, 2011, 01:27:54 PM
There's been something bothering me about Jace the Mind Sculptor, and I think I've figured it out. Every deck that runs blue would be improved by the card. It's like Force of Will, Sensei's Divining Top or Demonic Tutor, except it's going to sit in standard for the next six months. That doesn't bother me so much. What does is that I'm shying away from blue, because if I try to build a deck with blue in it, it will feel incomplete without a $100 card.

Does that make sense to anyone?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on February 25, 2011, 01:41:09 PM
Yes.

That's part of the problem with the card: It's so good and universal it goes in EVERYTHING blue.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 25, 2011, 02:33:24 PM
Yes.

That's part of the problem with the card: It's so good and universal it goes in EVERYTHING blue.

If it was only one of those things, I think I would tolerate it more. Koth, the Tezzerets and the Elspeths are good cards, but you have to build around them. The first five planeswalkers are no great shakes, but you can put them in just about any deck and they'll contribute something. The Mind Scupltor does just about everything you want a blue card to do.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on February 25, 2011, 02:54:55 PM
My main gripe is the lack of planeswalkers that represent some of the core of Magic's gameplay for each colour.

For instance, Red still lacks a cheap "disposable" burn-oriented planeswalker. Koth was okay and looked like they might finally have made one, but as people played with him they really realized he wasn't so great since he was usually just a vulnerable 4/4 for 4 with haste. Red can do a lot better for 4 mana. Black still lacks a strong-but-dangerous-to-you planeswalker (I can see how that would be tough to balance, but it's been a few years now). Nissa was important to try and make a planeswalker that encouraged a tribal strategy (a big green aspect), but they made her horrible by putting a player on such narrow, shitty rails if they want to use her.

There are solid successes though. Elspeth and Ajani each have aspects that solidly support classic White Weenie, Elspeth 2.0 is a great card for classic white control decks, and Garruk is as perfect for green as CheatyJace is for blue, only without being stupidly broken (sort of like how Giant Growth eventually proved most perfectly balanced of all the "boons", while Ancestral Recall was busted in half).

One thing I'd like to see is for them to try a couple of cheaper planeswalkers. JuniorJace is just fine at 3, but he is literally the only planeswalker to ever come in under 4. It's tough, because 4 mana really seems to be the sweet sport for useful planeswalkers. More than that and they don't see play, less and they run a very big risk of running out of control (though JuniorJace's power level is just about perfect. He and Garruk really were the best of the original 5).

In the end though it's okay. Planeswalkers are still in complete infancy in terms of design. We don't even have a planeswalker for each ally-colour pair yet, let alone each colour pair or the full spectrum. None have an instant-speed ability, none have text that isn't related to the +/- loyalty counters system and only one has ever had more or less than the three-ability base template (of course, guess which one... oops!). I do wish they'd make a block with more than then usual 4 or 5 though, just to bulk up the numbers and allow themselves a little more room to experiment.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Amuro Ray on February 26, 2011, 01:32:06 AM
So I bought a MTG deck yesterday "Pirexian Posion." It's a green/black infect deck. I haven't played type 2 since Onslaught, but I thought I'd give it a try since they're back on Mirrodin. I only read the Moons of Mirrordin book, so I was like WTF when I seen the awesome "Glissa, the Trader" card. Why doesn't she have infect!?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 26, 2011, 01:36:16 AM
'cause she's got first strike and deathtouch.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on February 26, 2011, 04:24:22 AM
Yeah, Phyrexia isn't exclusively infect. That's a major part of their arsenal, but look at Decimator Web (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=214055): it's just one part of a larger overall strategy of winning any way they can.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on February 27, 2011, 05:24:18 AM
Hyuk yuk (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/i-n-c-e-p-t-i-o-n/)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on February 27, 2011, 06:28:35 AM
That's just brilliant.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 03, 2011, 11:59:23 AM
Everyone's probably seen this but I felt like sharing it anyway.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/loadingreadyrun/2449-Its-Magic (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/loadingreadyrun/2449-Its-Magic)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on March 18, 2011, 12:56:06 PM
So I just saw a trailer for MTG: Duels of the Planeswalkers 2012, and during the trailer, it shows each of the five colors, and the core planeswalkers associated with them, except...

Red: Chandra
Blue: Jace
Green: Garruk
Black: Sorin???
White: Gideon???

I'm thinking this might be a teaser for Core 2012.  But yeah, I was expecting to see Liliana and Ajani for black and white.  I saw the trailer in association with The Spoony One's PAX East coverage, so head over there and check it out and confirm it if you can.  I'm pretty sure the black planeswalker is Sorin, because of all the bats in the shot.


EDIT: During the interview, Spoony cuts to a screenshot of DotP, and the active card currently resolving in the screenshot is Go For the Throat, and it doesn't have the Mirrodin Besieged set symbol.  Not really indicative of anything, but reprinting Go For the Throat would be snazzy.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on March 18, 2011, 02:07:38 PM
Sorin and Gideon are confirmed for M12, yes.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 18, 2011, 08:28:16 PM
I hear it's Liliana and Garruk's turn for 2.0 versions next Block.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on March 18, 2011, 08:34:38 PM
Hmm.  Interesting.

Tezzeret got an amazing 2.0 makeover this block, didn't he?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on March 18, 2011, 11:13:31 PM
Hmm.  Interesting.

Jace got an amazing 2.0 makeover last block, didn't he?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on March 19, 2011, 05:17:21 AM
Oh, and one of my FNM buddies used a pretty good countermeasure against my Blightsteel Colossus/Shape Anew deck last week:

<Him> I play Tezzeret, turn him in to a 5/5 Artifact Creature.
<Me> ...Okay.
<Him> Then I swing with my Necropede.
<Me> I don't like poison counters...Block with Trinket Mage.
<Him> Necropede dies, and Blightsteel gets a -1/-1 counter.  He's a 4/4.

He got him down to a 1/1 before he killed him off with -1/-1 counters.  If I had gotten another Shape Anew, I would have dumped him back in to the deck and spat out another Blightsteel.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 19, 2011, 06:29:01 AM
Have a logic puzzle!

Jim, AJ, Sam and Dana are playing EDH. Between them, they have all five colours in their decks.

Two of them are playing red.

Two of them are playing white.

One is playing blue, one is playing green, and one is playing black.

None of the decks have more than two colours.

Jim's deck has blue in it.

AJ's deck has only one colour in it.

Sam's deck is the only one with an allied colour pair.

WHO IS PLAYING WHAT COLOUR???

also, rules question: someone casts Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant (http://magiccards.info/sok/en/27.html) with 40 life. Is it on the field as a creature long enough to Swords to Plowshares (http://magiccards.info/ddf/en/22.html) it?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on March 19, 2011, 07:17:25 AM
Since I ran Rune-Tail in my life-gain deck, I might have some experience with it.

"When you have 30 or more life..." is the condition requirement for Rune-Tail to flip.  Immediately upon coming in to play, it would check for this status, and if it is true, then it would immediately flip.


On a related note, Serra Ascendant couldn't be, say, killed with a Grasp of Darkness on a first-turn EDH one-drop.  She would immediately become a 6/6 Flying Lifelink creature.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on March 19, 2011, 07:24:15 AM

jim - blue & green
aj - white
sam - red & black
dana - white & red

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 19, 2011, 09:54:04 AM

jim - blue & green
aj - white
sam - red & black
dana - white & red



Out of curiosity, how did you reach that conclusion, Zara?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on March 19, 2011, 12:32:02 PM
Have a logic puzzle!

Jim, AJ, Sam and Dana are playing EDH. Between them, they have all five colours in their decks.

Two of them are playing red.

Two of them are playing white.

One is playing blue, one is playing green, and one is playing black.

None of the decks have more than two colours.

Jim's deck has blue in it.

AJ's deck has only one colour in it.

Sam's deck is the only one with an allied colour pair.

WHO IS PLAYING WHAT COLOUR???

also, rules question: someone casts Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant (http://magiccards.info/sok/en/27.html) with 40 life. Is it on the field as a creature long enough to Swords to Plowshares (http://magiccards.info/ddf/en/22.html) it?


Lemme take a crack at this.

[spoiler]We have two reds, two whites, one blue, one green, and one black, among four players, and we know nobody is using more than two colors.  So we have one single-color deck and three two-color decks.  We know that AJ's deck is the single-color one, and that Jim's using blue, so AJ is either a red, a white, a green, or a black.  We know that Sam's deck is the only one with an allied color pair, which means that both Jim and Dana are using enemy color pairs - so Jim is either Blue/Green or Blue/Red; Sam is either Red/Green, Red/Black, or White/Green; and Dana is either Red/White or White/Black - all of Sam's solutions use up either the only Green or the only Black, so Dana can't be Green/Black.

From here, we play with it.  Two possibilities for Jim, let's see what happens if we assume he's Blue/Green.  That means nobody else can be Blue or Green, so Sam must be Red/Black, and since we don't have two Blacks, Dana must thus be Red/White.  This leaves AJ with mono-White.  Two Reds, two Whites, one Green, one Blue, and one Black.  So that's certainly a possible solution, but it's based on an assumption, so unless we can show that assuming otherwise is impossible, we can't say whether it's the only possible solution.

So, what if Jim isn't Blue/Green, and is instead Blue/Red?  Well, that tells us very little conclusively - his being Red doesn't rule out anyone else being Red, and we knew nobody else was Blue.  Dana could be Red/White, or could be White/Black - let's assume Red/White.  That's both Reds, so Sam must be White/Green, and that's both Whites.  That leaves AJ to be using Black.  Two Reds, two Whites, one Green, one Blue, one Black.  Another possible solution.

Go back a step, say Jim is Blue/Red and Dana is White/Black instead.  Now, we still can't conclude anything - Sam can't be Red/Black, but he could be either White/Green or Red/Green, leaving AJ with either the leftover Red or leftover White.  And these are all viable solutions.[/spoiler]

So, the answer is [spoiler]that there is not enough information presented to draw a conclusion.  Even if you assume that the "One is playing blue, one is playing green, and one is playing black" line means three different people, so no Blue/Green, Green/Black, or Blue/Black combinations, there would still be multiple possible solutions.  Unless the fact that they're playing EDH specifically, instead of just multiplayer Magic, imposes some kind of restriction - I don't know how EDH is played so if that rules out some of the possibilities, that would change the answer.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 19, 2011, 06:04:28 PM
So, the answer is [spoiler]that there is not enough information presented to draw a conclusion.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]I was afraid of that. I didn't want to give too much away. The correct answer was Jim=Red/Blue, AJ=White, Sam=Green/Red, Dana=White/Black.[/spoiler]
 :nyoro~n:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on March 19, 2011, 07:29:36 PM
Now, for their Generals!

Jim: Jhoira
AJ: Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Sam: Boborygmos
Dana: Uh...
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 19, 2011, 07:56:08 PM
Go on!

I'll give you a hint: Dana is [spoiler]actually me.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on March 20, 2011, 05:19:30 AM
Selenia, Dark Angel.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 20, 2011, 06:04:19 AM
Correct! But you got the others wrong.

Jim: Niv-Mizzet*
AJ: Rune-Tail
Sam: Wort, the Raidmother

*no Curiosity, no Ophidian Eye. I was surprised.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 23, 2011, 06:48:25 PM
Starr built a Legacy-level poison deck. Hilariously, it beat the hell out of quite a few top Legacy decks in our playtesting gauntlet tonight. I don't think it's ACTUALLY secret Legacy tech (a decent control deck would paste it, I'm sure), but it definitely did a lot better than expected and was silly fun.

4x Plague Stinger
4x Flensermite
4x Phyrexian Crusader
2x Hand of the Praetors
1x Skittles, the Blight Dragon

4x Dark Ritual
4x Lotus Petal

4x Thoughtseize

4x Berserk
4x Invigorate
3x Rancor
3x Giant Growth

4x Bayou
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Inkmoth Nexus
3x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Pendlehaven
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 26, 2011, 07:17:47 PM
(http://www.magiclibrarities.net/rarities/photo-richard-garfield.jpg) "Decks might be twice as efficient as they were in 1993, but your average player is just as drunk and stupid as ever! The only one that's changed is me... I've become bitter, and let's face it, crazy over the years! And when I finish designing Innistrad, every creature will have its casting cost increased by two! And I'll go into people's houses and tear up their planeswalker cards! Mwahahahahahahahaha!"
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on March 26, 2011, 08:54:07 PM
What brought that on?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 26, 2011, 09:03:04 PM
So uh... Masques block?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 27, 2011, 04:56:33 AM
What brought that on?

Richard Garfield is on the design team for Innistrad.

It's apparently going to be a horror-themed block. In a whimsical coincidence, the arcana announcing the set was 666. (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/666)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on March 28, 2011, 08:10:08 PM
It's official. (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/677) I'm sure, like, 3 people are surprised and outraged.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on March 31, 2011, 11:21:12 AM
did --

did they just put pyramid head into magic
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on March 31, 2011, 11:46:34 AM
more like "the St. Louis Arch" Head, but sure
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 31, 2011, 04:14:55 PM
Elesh Norn's greatest nemesis: Hallways.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on March 31, 2011, 05:21:15 PM
When the multiverse is compleat, we shall have no need for hallways.

ALL WILL BE ONE.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 31, 2011, 07:35:14 PM
(http://images.wikia.com/girlgenius/images/9/97/Jaegermonsterportrait.png)

Anybodda got de number of dat lady's habber-- hababerad-- hadabadash-- hat-maker?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on April 01, 2011, 02:13:31 AM
Those dudes to the sides are actually holding two gigantic curtain things that are tied to her like that dude in the Cell movie. The gliding hat is the least of her worries.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 04, 2011, 03:47:36 AM
Oh holy shit (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=313733&page=3)

Quick summary:

1) NPH* Japanese card scans, looks very legit, as that's a lot of very difficult art to fake. If this is a hoax, it will have re-set the bar for hoax quality.
2) Karn confirmed as a colourless planeswalker.

Karn, [the released?]  7
+4: Target player exiles a card from their hand.
-3: Exile target permanent
-14: Return all exiled cards (except auras) to play under your control
6 Loyalty

Last line's a bit wonky (probably due to amateur translation). It'll probably be "permanents" rather than "cards" and might stipulate that it's just the cards exiled by Karn?

3) Other cards untranslated as yet. Looks like there will be "Phyrexian mana", which you can pay with either 1 colourless or 2 life.

Well folks, if this pans out, Karn is everything I ever wanted him to be, but here's this block's $75+ Planeswalker. 7 cmc be damned, he's buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuusted. And an auto-include in every EDH deck ever.


*Yes, the acronym for this set is NPH.  :whoops:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on April 04, 2011, 08:32:53 AM
Karn's ultimate seems to be even more demented. The full translation is:

Set aside all exiled non-Aura permanents exiled by Karn the Released, then restart the game. Put all those exiled permanents to the battlefield under your control.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 04, 2011, 11:40:30 AM
Please tell me he at least counts as an artifact.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on April 04, 2011, 12:39:10 PM
Nope, no Shatter vulnerability here.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 04, 2011, 02:02:49 PM
What about cards that haven't been exiled?  Do those just get shuffled back in to the deck on the restart?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 04, 2011, 02:49:47 PM
Also, holy dickbutts, Mirran faction cards aren't out of the woods yet.

Puresteel Paladin: WW, 2/2.

Equipmentfall (like Landfall, but with equipment) -- Draw a card.

Metalcraft -- Equip costs of all equipment is 0.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 04, 2011, 08:38:18 PM
So yeah, Zara's right. I saw the updated text this afternoon.

Man, that card is going to lead to horrible heartache. He's still pretty much a shoo-in for all kinds of EDH decks, if not the latest auto-include-in-all-decks like Sol Ring, Sensei's Dreidel, etc. as a colourless, repeatable source of destruction (one that deals with indestructible creatures too) and (sometimes) a giant must-deal-with wall. But triggering that last ability in a regular (i.e. multiplayer) EDH game is going to lead to many a murder-by-chairleg at FNMs across the land.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 06, 2011, 02:07:58 PM
Be still my beating heart. (http://cgi.ebay.com/MAGIC-MTG-BETA-BLACK-LOTUS-BGS-10-HIGHEST-GRADED-/220399381310?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3350d3ab3e#ht_2330wt_905)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 06, 2011, 06:17:51 PM
Wow! Forget saving my money to pay off my student loan or buy hormones. I want something that I'll probably never be able to use for its intended purpose because doing so would dramatically decrease its value.

srsly i dare you to bid $50 on that mongrel
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on April 06, 2011, 06:20:52 PM
Just did.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 06, 2011, 06:25:11 PM
Yeah, I'm pretty sure out of the those 85 "Best Offers" 83 are not what you might call "serious".
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 10, 2011, 05:22:14 PM
Holy shit I want to build this now:

Quote from: random dude
I have discovered the world's worst deck.

24 Lands

4 Izzet Guildmage
4 Training Grounds
4 Manamorphose

1 Battle of Wits
1 Research // Development
1 Obstinate Familiar
1 Time Warp

20 Tutors n Tings

Sideboard:
200 Squire
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on April 10, 2011, 06:04:53 PM
Eh, still not as stupid as Inception.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on April 11, 2011, 12:44:14 AM
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpdal11/welcome (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpdal11/welcome)

THEY ALL HAVE THE SAME FUCKING DECK.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on April 11, 2011, 01:03:09 AM
Jace only, no Black Lotus, Final Destination
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 11, 2011, 03:40:40 AM
Oh yeah. Hahahahaha!

We were discussing this yesterday elsewhere. This has been coming for some time, with Jace slowly occupying more and more slots in tournament top-8s. Now he's a maxed-out 32 out of 32 possible appearances. In fact, not even in the worst days of Necro Summer, Combo Winter, or Ravffinity were tournament results that monocultured. Healthy format is healthy!

But I would bet good money that there will be no bannings and that Wizards will blatantly ignore the problem. If tournament results continue like this, that's going to be pretty damned funny.

Further comments I made yesterday with regards to other people suggesting Jace might be banned if this continues:

Quote
Yeah, It's a bit different than things like Ravager, or Necro (or any other notoriously warped format you'd care to name). Jace doesn't enable a specific decktype or even a specific strategy, he's just an absurdly strong utility card.

People aren't really calling for Jace to be banned either, outside of the usual vocal minority. Most people who are kind of middle-of-the-road about bannings just seem to have kind of resigned themselves to the situation and have given up commenting further.

So I'd agree, I don't think it will happen (though of course you never know for sure.). But if Jace's dominance remains unchallenged and Wizards doesn't acknowledge the frustration felt by the poorer members of their clientele, there are going to be... strains.

I posted a few months ago about MTG going the way of Warhammer and being perceived as a "rich kid's game", damaging sales, new customer acquisition, and the overall brand. Even though GW has churned out all kind of affordable entry level products, it hasn't helped them because perception trumps reality.

I don't think a single card on it's own will cause this shift to happen, but Jace has not happened in a vacuum. Unless the metagame compensates and we see more diversity, a (possibly significant) psychological barrier will have been broken. At the very least, we can look forward to years of players loudly citing this Standard season as an example of "Mythics ruining things" (whether or not you agree with that is another matter).

The funny thing is that Jace's price is actually falling (from his $100 peak). He dropped at least $10 and possibly as much as $20 in less than a week.

Basically, what happened was Star City Games (the single largest MTG retailer in the world) decided to lower their price on Jace to $90, which was the low end of ebay pricing (they normally overprice their cards significantly). Presumably this was to unload the bulk of their stock before or early-on in the upcoming/current Standard season, which is realistically their last chance to dump huge amounts of Jaces for a while. It was the smart move, dumping them well before the expected decline at rotation.

Prices on ebay subsequently fell as well. Now I'm hearing anecdotal accounts of people unable to sell their Jaces for even $80 - even though there's still a whole Standard season left we're getting crazy results like this recent tournament!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 11, 2011, 03:45:57 AM
Oh and: HOT TECH FROM PT DALLAS!

(http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/daily/events/gpdal11/badDecklist.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on April 11, 2011, 06:18:51 PM
Against all other arguments, I'd say Jace is bad for the state of the game from a design standpoint. You don't want to print a card that every single deck possible wants in it. The fact that it is expensive as fuck is just adding insult to injury.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 11, 2011, 06:44:00 PM
Well, it's expensive because of the effect it has. That, and it's mythic. I guess it's sort of a chicken-and-egg-roll-down-a-hill,-snowballing-as-they-go clusterfuck.

Fun facts:

- There were over $30,000 worth of Jaces at PT Dallas*
- Jace is now appearing in more decks than Skullclamp did in its heyday
- Jace is now the most popular card in Standard decks, even when you include basic lands.

There was a great article (http://mixedknuts.wordpress.com/2011/04/11/jace-t-mind-sculptor-will-you-please-go-now/) on this mess recently, from the otherwise groan-worthy Ted Knutson. 




*This, that Lotus, current Legacy prices... like what game am I even playing? I understand that 17 years can be interpreted as a long time by some folks, but this whole situation feels so damned bizarre.

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on April 11, 2011, 07:04:10 PM
Yeah, all of that is true. I was just trying to view Jace without all the Meta-stuff that gets attached to it. And even then, it's a bad card for the game. It'd be just as bad for the game if it were common.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 11, 2011, 07:31:06 PM
Oh definitely.

The funny thing is that if it were a common, I think it almost certainly would have been banned by now.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on April 11, 2011, 07:48:29 PM
At least as a common everybody would have it.  Jace being Mythic just does exactly what Mythic was always feared to do - stratify the game between those who buy four-digit decks and those who can't.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 11, 2011, 07:51:38 PM
- Jace is now appearing in more decks than Skullclamp did in its heyday

That's the card I see it compared to the most. The thing is, the comparison breaks down because they're two different card types. At least with Skullclamp you had Shatter, Naturalize, and a bunch of other artifact hate. MTG had a longstanding tradition of things regulating other things. For Planeswalkers you have, what, burn if you're playing red? Everyone else has to hope for a lack of blockers.

Before you ask, yes I'm bitter. Wizards printed a coupon that read "Pay $100 and your odds of winning go up significantly. Limit 4 per customer." Frankly, I hope they do ban it. I want to see thousands of players weeping like the French in 1940. I want to see its value plunge so hard it leaves a crater where Starcitygames used to be. I want to see Mark Rosewater on his hands and knees begging for forgiveness before a rabid mob of players so incensed that their decks are worth less than ten percent of their original value that they rape him to death with rusty switchblades--

ahem.

Well. Here's hoping.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on April 11, 2011, 07:53:54 PM
I want it banned because I don't play in tournaments and want a copy of that card without emptying my wallet.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 11, 2011, 08:17:21 PM
I still think they won't ban it. There's no way they can ban it without acknowledging the card's secondary market value and for WotC, that has become THE ultimate minefield.

There's just too much money in general pouring into the game. I don't know where it's all coming from, but it's making things really strange.

As for personal feelings, well, I'm kinda with Nex. Though my original plan was just to trade for them after rotation.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 11, 2011, 08:28:09 PM
They don't have to acknowledge its value. It's in every deck that did well at the pro tour. People who have them do better than people who don't. It makes every deck objectively better. I would even be so bold as to say that it could be as good as Ancestral Recall, since it can be used over and over and has a far greater range of utility.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 11, 2011, 08:52:42 PM
I'm trying to think of what I would put in place of JTMS in my Shape Anew deck.

Nothing's really coming to mind, aside from extra counters, or perhaps running Venser for goofiness factor.  I've got the three vensers to replace my Jaces.  I'll take it up to school tomorrow and see what happens.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 11, 2011, 09:48:04 PM
They don't have to acknowledge its value. It's in every deck that did well at the pro tour. People who have them do better than people who don't. It makes every deck objectively better. I would even be so bold as to say that it could be as good as Ancestral Recall, since it can be used over and over and has a far greater range of utility.

No, I mean the value on the secondary value. The price the card's going for.

This is explained better in the article I linked above, but basically, on many previous occasions that WotC did bannings, they offered a redemption program where they gave out packs to anyone who sent in banned cards (since those cards were now worthless). At the time most of those cards were comparable in value to packs so it worked out*. But Jace is worth $100 (okay, $90 now). A pack ain't gonna cut it.

As if that weren't enough, the Reserved list fiasco and the Mythics issue have led to a policy where Wizards take all possible measures to avoid commenting on the secondary market value of cards, even indirectly, due to undisclosed potential legal issues (seems silly at first, but with card prices the way they are these days...). The old redemption program avoided that since a player was basically trading "a rare" for "a pack" and with the values back then it worked out, more or less. But any banning of a $90 card is going to confront the issue of real cash value head on.

*The biggest time this happened was in Tempest/Saga block - they DIDN'T do this for Mirrodin-block bannings because all of the cards banned were common, except Skullclamp, which was uncommon.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on April 11, 2011, 11:33:19 PM
Mongrel has it. I think Jace is unlikely to be banned, particularly since so much of the Magic brand is tied up in planeswalkers. It's funny that they'd kill off so many 'walkers during Time Spiral to pave the way for these new, less-powerful, "mortal" planeswalkers, when the long-term demands of the card game make it very unlikely for them to ever kill one of these characters off in the story. That's why they won't print a card with the text "Destroy target planeswalker," and it's why the card-type is inherently semi-legendary. (I absolutely believe Design would make generic planeswalkers with no subtype at lower rarities than mythic if they didn't have the Brand team holding their leash.) I'm very curious whether Jace's cancerous effect on Standard will have any blowback on his marketability, and what that will mean for planeswalker design in the future; I expect we'll get an article lamenting the current state of affairs, but I predict WotC would rather have the occasional walker blow way out of proportion than have the post-release grumbling people had about Chandra or Sorin or Nicol Bolas.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Bongo Bill on April 12, 2011, 12:04:26 AM
I thought the planeswalkers were supposed to be the players. You can't make a player into a card, guys!

Yeah, I don't even know any more.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on April 12, 2011, 12:45:39 AM
The idea with planeswalkers was that the card didn't represent the actual person with the planeswalking spark, but their magical connection to you, their allegiance to your goals, and their ability to influence the combat you were having with your opponent. This is why the card works like a "miniature player" in that it can be attacked and burn spells that can target players can be redirected to those players' planeswalkers. WotC has said they're leery of printing a card with the text "destroy target planeswalker" because the literal rules meaning clashes with the flavor they're trying to employ.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Bongo Bill on April 12, 2011, 01:08:33 AM
So make the flavor based on severing that magical connection, then?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on April 12, 2011, 02:08:41 AM
That would be the obvious move, yes. Instead they seem intent on printing increasingly oblique answers to the card type.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Bongo Bill on April 12, 2011, 02:56:19 AM
You could give a class of anti-planeswalker strategies to each color. Like, while Blue might get effects that outright get rid of the planeswalker (being experts of magic, severing the connection seems their style), while White gets ways to prevent them from acting, Black removes loyalty counters, Green creatures get ways to make it easier to specifically attack planeswalkers, and Red gets some kind of planeswalker-specific burn? I'm not sure.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 12, 2011, 03:55:47 AM
Mongrel has it. I think Jace is unlikely to be banned, particularly since so much of the Magic brand is tied up in planeswalkers. It's funny that they'd kill off so many 'walkers during Time Spiral to pave the way for these new, less-powerful, "mortal" planeswalkers, when the long-term demands of the card game make it very unlikely for them to ever kill one of these characters off in the story. That's why they won't print a card with the text "Destroy target planeswalker," and it's why the card-type is inherently semi-legendary. (I absolutely believe Design would make generic planeswalkers with no subtype at lower rarities than mythic if they didn't have the Brand team holding their leash.) I'm very curious whether Jace's cancerous effect on Standard will have any blowback on his marketability, and what that will mean for planeswalker design in the future; I expect we'll get an article lamenting the current state of affairs, but I predict WotC would rather have the occasional walker blow way out of proportion than have the post-release grumbling people had about Chandra or Sorin or Nicol Bolas.

Agree with all of this.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on April 12, 2011, 04:51:56 AM
The problem with a "destroy target planeswalker" card is how niche it is against a 60-card deck that will have at most 4 planeswalker cards.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 12, 2011, 05:29:25 AM
You could give a class of anti-planeswalker strategies to each color. Like, while Blue might get effects that outright get rid of the planeswalker (being experts of magic, severing the connection seems their style), while White gets ways to prevent them from acting, Black removes loyalty counters, Green creatures get ways to make it easier to specifically attack planeswalkers, and Red gets some kind of planeswalker-specific burn? I'm not sure.

Well that's the rub. Anything that can target a nonland, noncreature, or non-whatever permanent is pretty much your answer to a planeswalker. You have things like Phyrexian Revoker, Mold Shambler, any blue bounce spell... There's going to be a creature in the next set that eats counters, and you can bet it'll be in just about every sideboard.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 12, 2011, 05:50:24 AM
Well, we already have a functional return of Pithing Needle in Phyrexian Revoker.  Basically, while it's in play, the activated abilities of the named card cannot be activated.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on April 12, 2011, 07:05:16 AM
And there were approximately 0 Revokers in the top 8 in Dallas. It's a "solution" that some of the best players in the game have no faith in, compared to the far-more-powerful strategy of just rolling with Jace yourself.

I myself have argued in the past that planeswalkers don't need direct answers because they can be killed by direct damage and attacking, but it's exactly that mentality which seems to have gotten WotC into this mess. Even if he eats a Bolt, unless I'm greatly misunderstanding the way priority works, he should have had time to provide either Brainstorm or Unsummon, or even Fateseal 1 for the opportunity to survive said Bolting. Every turn he stays on the battlefield, he provides the flexibility of providing one of those three services as well as the potential to distract attacking creatures and force the opponent to discard burn, and risk just losing outright if they aren't able to do so.

In an environment with Mana Leak, he's basically Cryptic Command on an Isochron Scepter. It would benefit the format for him to be banned, but he's not going to, because what's good for the format isn't necessarily good for WotC.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 12, 2011, 07:55:04 AM
Planeswalker abilities are sorcery speed.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on April 12, 2011, 08:02:45 AM
yes but you can play them without passing priority as soon as you cast the planeswalker. there is literally no way for them to prevent you from using an ability right away if you play correctly.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 12, 2011, 09:57:11 AM
Outside of hard counterspells like Mana Leak and Spell Pierce.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on April 12, 2011, 12:29:32 PM
Right. As Misha indicates, a Lightning Bolt can't prevent a Jace player from using at least one ability, and if it's fateseal, the Lightning Bolter is out of luck. Once Jace resolves and is a legal target for instants that target permanents (or, more specifically, can have the damage redirection effect inherent to planeswalkers applied to a Lightning Bolt targeted at the opponent), the Jace player has already had the opportunity to put a single sorcery-speed spell or ability on the stack.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 14, 2011, 09:06:53 PM
Ahahahahahahahaha! (http://wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ld/138)

Some observations:

1) Well, they didn't rule out a banning and even hinted it was possible. That's actually more than I would've thought.
2) Remember all those "artifact hosers" from Betrayers and Saviours? Guess we'll see if they learned from last time.
3) That paragraph where Lapille dances around Jace's price is just precious.
4) The "dance around the price" paragraph also pretty much confirms that his price is a significant weight against a banning. Take note kids! If a card becomes so retarded broken that it's price skyrockets, this will actually protect it from banning - to a degree.
5) They talked about fun, which was a relevant point, and a sort-of fair argument against banning, but I couldn't help but think "Yeah, I'm sure any kids who spend every Friday getting waxed by Jaces they can't possibly afford are having loads of fun.". That's an unfair criticism, but still, that's what came to mind. There are a lot of frustrated standard players out there.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on April 15, 2011, 02:48:32 AM
Quote
Friday getting waxed by Jaces

OK, but I get to be Player 1.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on April 15, 2011, 04:30:31 AM
Just come out and say it.

"We'd ban it, but pissing off every person that can spare $400 to win at this game would be the worst move in the history of moves ever."

This just shows the problem underneath, that of the mythic rares. Either you stick to harmless Timmy cards in that rarity, or you risk creating a powerful combo piece that everyone -must- have.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 15, 2011, 05:34:31 AM
No, there's no way they can ever possibly self-police mythics. Doubly so, given that all Planeswalkers MUST be Mythics, as per the current branding requirements. If you don't want the problem caused by Mythics presenting a financial barrier then Mythics need to go, period.

Of course I understand Wizards' problem with that. The reason they were originally introduced was legitimate (to keep sales up while reducing set sizes) and as a company they're not going to willingly undercut their own bottom line.

This is why I talk about the game being seen as a "rich kid's game", possibly with the result of a long-term decrease in sales. Until sales figures or tournament attendance actually take non-negligible hits nothing will really change to make the game more accessible.

Wizards' biggest mistake is that they think Mythics and the other changes they made around the time Mythics were introduced is the only reason their sales figures are so high now. But I've stated before that that happened to coincide with the death of Magic's last major competitor. The biggest puzzle piece missing from a scenario where people actually start voting with their wallets is a strong alternative. 
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 15, 2011, 07:10:07 AM
Ahahahahahahahaha! (http://wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ld/138)

This is my favorite quote:

Quote
There is, of course, an amount of balance that is required for fun to exist. While it's clear that Jace, the Mind Sculptor is one of the most powerful cards in the format, there are also plenty of people who are finding success on Magic Online without it.

"Sure, Jace is a big problem! But it's not so bad in a situation where obtaining cards is based on a sorting algorithm!"
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 18, 2011, 01:27:05 PM
Oooh.  New spoiler a few days ago.

Standard has a 1-cost Exile target creature again.

The drawback?  Gotta have metalcraft.  Otherwise, it's just tapped.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 18, 2011, 03:47:20 PM
Yeah, basically the only thing that's good for is to replace Swords to Plowshares in Legacy Affinity builds that run white in the sideboard.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on April 19, 2011, 03:05:30 PM
I think the entire set just got leaked. Gotta run, or I'd spend some time examining it.

EDIT: Yeah, looks like it. (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=317624)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 19, 2011, 06:05:17 PM
Holeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee shit.

All images saved. Assessing set now.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 19, 2011, 07:32:18 PM
Ha! I called it. I knew Melira would put the kibosh on infect.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 19, 2011, 07:44:38 PM
Most of this set seems very unimpressive at first glance, other than the aforementioned Karn.

The green Pongify-meets-infect, though, THAT'S probably going to turn out to be pretty crucial.

I'm sure that there are some decent cards I've missed, but I sure didn't see much that jumped out at me.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 19, 2011, 09:06:02 PM
Yep, Melira needs shroud quickly.  But definitely a good sideboard card against infect.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on April 19, 2011, 09:33:50 PM
Hey dont knock that new sword just yet. that's going to be an absolutely amazing equipment.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 19, 2011, 09:46:08 PM
As a rule, if you want to make something suck, make it dependant on hand size.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on April 20, 2011, 01:58:49 AM
Ignoring that Pro red and Pro white as well as +2/+2 sound Pretty damn ok to me.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 20, 2011, 05:52:17 AM
I'd still rather have Fire and Ice.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on April 20, 2011, 06:05:47 AM
Cards I'm thrilled to see:

Karn, simply for the fact that it's 7 mana.
Glistener Elf: the 1/1 infect for G that aggro infect has been waiting for.
Jin-Gitaxias is pretty amazing as an EDH general. Flash, draw 7 at the end of each of your turns, opponents' hand size is 0.
Viral Drake is 3U for a 1/4 infect flyer with repeatable proliferate for 3U. It's not good, but it's a card that interests me.
Evil Presence: What a classic. Perfect answer to Valakut.
Mindcrank: infinite combo with Bloodchief Ascension, which is a card I've had an irrational love for since it first came out.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 20, 2011, 06:12:33 AM
Oooh.  Marrow Shards.  Total answer to Kudoltha Red.

Might as well say:

This card's casting cost is 2 life.  Give target Kudoltha Red player middle finger.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 20, 2011, 06:50:52 AM
Ignoring that Pro red and Pro white as well as +2/+2 sound Pretty damn ok to me.


I think the pro colours might add it as a sideboard option in caw-blade, but really it's not super-impressive.

Still going to want a Russian copy though.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 27, 2011, 11:16:08 AM
I'm here preempting Mongrel's hilarious MTG rant that will eventually get moved over here from the minecraft thread.

I'm calling attention to this because I don't want it to get retconned that Mongrel is a hilarious goof.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 27, 2011, 11:50:48 AM
Like, I'm not exactly heartbroken here. If I want a good story, I'll... not read a Magic the Gathering-related product? Bazooka Joe is probably Shakespearean compared to MTG novels.

To be fair, some of the long-ago books were decent fantasy boilerplate. The first one (The Brothers' War) was probably the best. The Ice Age and Ravnica Cycles were pretty good. I've heard nice things about the Kamigawa books too.

But this is writing of a calibre so awful it's just silly. Marketing basically said "We want Phyrexia to come back so we have some cross-block villains" and Design said "Man we really want to print a Karn card, because technically he's the only old walker besides Nicol Bolas who's not dead and it would just be THAT COOL" and nobody cared what was bludgeoned in the process of justifying these things.

Keep in mind that this is the same company whose flavour department wanted Jace's 2.0 to be 'powerful.'
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on April 27, 2011, 12:00:15 PM
Prodigal Sorcerer was a pretty good book, for a tabletop tie-in book.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 27, 2011, 12:35:43 PM
Just for you McDohl. Just for you.

_______________________


Now, I'm not a big MTG storyline guy, but when you play something for seventeen years you get at least a passing involvement that makes you care a little. But recent developments represent a new low for MTG storylines (and that's saying something. It's like trying to outdo Star Wars novels or third-string Marvel comics for sheer awfulness).

Many of you have heard that Karn is coming back I'm sure. He's got a card in the next set, one unambiguously named "Karn, Liberated", so not much of a spoiler there. Past storylines on the MTG universe have established:

[spoiler]1) Planeswalker sparks are very special things (hereinafter referred to as sporks). On at least two occasions the villain's plan for an entire block was to try and "extract" a planeswalker spork. The only time this was done, it involved a plane-sized machine and an entire planetful of souls.
2) Planeswalkers can give up the spork voluntarily. Karn used to be a Planeswalker but not anymore.
3) Karn sure has a lot of crap in him. He's like some kind of golem-based bag of holding. He has Urza's head, Xantcha's heart and a pile of other crap I don't remember. At one point he actually had TWO sporks. The important thing about all this junk is that you could probably easily retcon it to have any one of those things grant Karn planeswalker status again.[/spoiler]

But never mind all that. Apparently they just decided to

[spoiler]Have Venser reveal that "Hey did I actually mention I'm a huge crack addict?" with no prior basis for it and then he teleports his heart into Karn, which somehow give Karn his spork. Oh and Elspeth spends the book as a Mary Sue and there's actually no scenes with the Phyrexian Praetors, even though the book is supposed to be about New Phyrexia.[/spoiler]

Like, I'm not exactly heartbroken here. If I want a good story, I'll... not read a Magic the Gathering-related product? Bazooka Joe is probably Shakespearean compared to MTG novels.

But this is writing of a calibre so awful it's just silly. Marketing basically said "We want Phyrexia to come back so we have some cross-block villains" and Design said "Man we really want to print a Karn card, because technically he's the only old walker besides Nicol Bolas who's not dead and it would just be THAT COOL" and nobody cared what was bludgeoned in the process of justifying these things.



Full disclosure: I didn't actually read the book (nor have I read MTG novels in years), I just get the three-paragraph summary to keep up on the storyline. I mean, I'd like to keep my eyeballs and my sanity.

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 27, 2011, 12:38:23 PM
Like, I'm not exactly heartbroken here. If I want a good story, I'll... not read a Magic the Gathering-related product? Bazooka Joe is probably Shakespearean compared to MTG novels.

To be fair, some of the long-ago books were decent fantasy boilerplate. The first one (The Brothers' War) was probably the best. The Ice Age and Ravnica Cycles were pretty good. I've heard nice things about the Kamigawa books too.

But this is writing of a calibre so awful it's just silly. Marketing basically said "We want Phyrexia to come back so we have some cross-block villains" and Design said "Man we really want to print a Karn card, because technically he's the only old walker besides Nicol Bolas who's not dead and it would just be THAT COOL" and nobody cared what was bludgeoned in the process of justifying these things.

Keep in mind that this is the same company whose flavour department wanted Jace's 2.0 to be 'powerful.'

The Brothers' War was probably the only legitimately unique OR well-done story to ever come out of Magic. You'll note that it predates what might be called "Corporate Wizards" by a good half-decade. I suppose there was some intermittent tolerable stuff after that, but that was really the kindest thing you could say about it. It was tolerable.

Not that I think storyline should ever trump the game itself. After all, that's the kind of thinking that gives you Homelands. Or the entire Middle Earth: The Wizards CCG.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on April 27, 2011, 04:39:17 PM
It has also been previously estabilished that planeswalkers can do pretty much any deus ex machina thing by sacrificing either themselves or their sparks because that's dramaaaaaaaaaaaaaatic.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 27, 2011, 06:35:56 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/buge/herpaderp/Jace_The_Derp_Derp.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 27, 2011, 08:03:57 PM
Nanomachines.

That Nicol Bolas made.

After he enslaved...uh...Ajani.  Which is why he's not in Core 2012.


(Here comes the book deal!)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 28, 2011, 10:09:26 AM
THE FUNGAL INDIE BUNDLE
An EDH deck for the casual, and frugal, player. Fairly simple swarm strategy, with a proliferate sub-theme. I think only two or three cards are worth $5 or more.

General
Thelon of Havenwood (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=116737)

Lands
Tranquil Thicket (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=220494)
Barren Moor (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=220487)
Dryad Arbor (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=136196)
Verdant Catacombs (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=193400)
Vivid Grove (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=207922)
Bojuka Bog (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=197786)
Tectonic Edge (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=197855)
Gilt-Leaf Palace (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=153455)
Golgari Rot Farm (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=87939)
Terramorphic Expanse (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205236)
14 Forest
10 Swamp

Creatures
Thallid Devourer (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=184527)
Deathspore Thallid (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=116743)
Thallid Germinator (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=116381)
Sporesower Thallid (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=111068)
Utopia Mycon (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=130616)
Savage Thallid (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=106643)
Psychotrope Thallid (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=128944)
Sporoloth Ancient (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=130323)
Thallid Shell-Dweller (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=116731)
Spore Flower (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=184521)
Thallid (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=108825)
Fungal Behemoth (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=124065)
Mycoloth (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=174975)
Thorn Thallid (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=1934)
Vitaspore Thallid (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=128941)
Elvish Farmer (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=1908)
Thelonite Hermit (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=220558)
Verdant Force (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205272)
Grave-Shell Scarab (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=89073)
Plaguemaw Beast (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=213752)
Acidic Slime (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=207333)
Verdeloth the Ancient (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=220565)
Gleancrawler (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=83702)
Shambling Shell (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=89021)
Visara the Dreadful (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=39863)
Fertilid (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=220452)
Krosan Tusker (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=220491)
Cytospawn Shambler (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=107312)
Vhati il-Dal (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=109759)

Other Permanents
Verdant Embrace (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=109766)
Fallen Ideal (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=114908)
Golgari Germination (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=89069)
Night Soil (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=1917)
Phyrexian Arena (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=209132)
Elixir of Immortality (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205061)
Contagion Clasp (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=194341)
Contagion Engine (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=212252)
Nihil Spellbomb (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=210226)
Horizon Spellbomb (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=210229)
Ashnod's Altar (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=3761)

Sorceries
Sylvan Scrying (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=130513)
Thrive (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=107390)
Spread the Sickness (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=221557)
Ashes to Ashes (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=3824)
Exsanguinate (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=210235)
Dimir Machinations (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=87981)
Mwonvuli Acid-Moss (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=118888)
Cultivate (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=204996)
Demonic Tutor (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=1155)
Smallpox (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=113531)
Vigor Mortis (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=88986)
Harmonize (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=220584)
Overrun (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=201779)
Spoils of War (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=2488)
Diabolic Tutor (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205222)
Brainspoil (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=88965)
Disturbed Burial (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=4657)

Instants
Sudden Death (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=108804)
Consume Strength (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=19163)
Spore Cloud (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=1920)
Deglamer (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=154160)
Evolution Charm (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=124047)
Krosan Grip (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=126274)
Shred Memory (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=87962)
Sprout Swarm (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=136042)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 28, 2011, 05:32:21 PM
Yaaaay Thallids!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 30, 2011, 10:37:34 AM
Hey McDohl, what's your latest Katamyri build and how well does it do?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 30, 2011, 12:29:52 PM
Katamyri is no longer a 5-color deck.

I've instead made my mono-black Myr deck, which works on cheating out Battlespheres with Myr Turbine and Myr Reservoir.  I might have already posted the deck list.  Hang on.


DECK LIST: Katamyri Infection


19x Swamp


4x Tainted Strike
3x Grasp of Darkness
4x Semblance anvil
4x Myr Galvanizer
3x Shimmer Myr
4x Leaden Myr
4x Plague Myr
4x Myr Turbine
3x Myr Reservoir
4x Myr Battlesphere


That's 56 cards currently, because I have proxied in 4x Myr Superion, the new Myr from NPH that is a 2-cost 5/6 Myr that can only be cast by creature mana.  So, tap my myr for mana, or I'll just cheat it out with a Semblance Anvil discount!  I've also got my eye on that 1/2 vigilance/flying myr.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 30, 2011, 04:06:10 PM
Hey McDohl

(http://magiccards.info/scans/de/nph/146.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 30, 2011, 04:49:02 PM
!!!!!!!!!!!!

WANT.

I'm not even kidding.  I always joke about wanting a Sarkhan el Loco with a sombrero.

But I want a playset of those.  SO BAD.  You have no idea.


I'm wondering if there's a place where I can pre-order a playset of those guys.  I don't know if I'll be buying a box of NPH like I've been doing since M11.  I'm tight on money until I can find a job.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 30, 2011, 04:52:56 PM
Also, as of last night, one of my true dudebros gave me the last rats I needed to finish the Relentless Rats deck.

22x Swamp
4x Dark Ritual
4x Thrumming Stone
30x Relentless Rats

Easiest deck list I've ever posted.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 30, 2011, 07:38:24 PM
T-T-TRIPLE POST!

I'm working on making a Lu-Bu EDH deck.  I'm gonna call it "Pillage and Plunder"


EDIT:
(2): Changes are in strikeouts/red.  I found a stash of old red commons/uncommons, some from Ice Age and Tempest!


Here it is!

GENERAL
Lu Bu, Master-at-Arms


CAPTURED TERRITORY
30x Mountain
Mystifying Maze
Ghitu Encampment
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle

THE UNIT
Kumano, Master Yamibushi
Ryusei, The Falling Star
Jiwari, the Earth Aflame
Chandra Nalaar
Kamahl, Pit Fighter
Conquering Manticore
Thopter Assembly
Dragonmaster Outcast
Ball Lightning
Cunning Sparkmage
Plated Geopede
Goblin Ruinblaster
Hellspark Elemental
Cinder Pyromancer
Palladium Myr
Brass Squire
Spark Elemental
Godo's Irregulars
Training Drone
Embersmith

ARMORY
Sylvok Lifestaff
Piston Sledge
Trigon of Rage
Accorder's Shield
Bladed Pinions
Echo Circlet
Sword of Feast and Famine
Sword of Body and Mind
Lightning Greaves
Everflowing Chalice
Darksteel Axe
Sword of Vengeance
Strider Harness
Seer's Sundial
Myr Turbine

CONSCRIPTION
Act of Treason
Mark of Mutiny
Traitorous Instinct
Metallic Mastery

ARTILLERY (Burn)
Thunderbolt
Burn the Impure
Concussive Bolt
Galvanic Blast
Fireball
Punishing Fire
Burst Lightning
Flame Slash
Staggershock
Mindblaze
Rift Bolt
Slagstorm
Pyroclasm
Arc Trail
Sizzle

SORCERY (Non-burn)
Rally The Forces
Fatal Frenzy
Electropotence
Leyline of Punishment
Assault Strobe
Kudoltha Rebirth
Eldrazi Conscription
Savage Beating
Panic
Last Chance
Melee
Red Elemental Blast (lol)

PILLAGE
Pillage
Shatter
Demolish
Fissure Vent
Into the Core
Crush
Lay Waste
Detonate
Conquer
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 30, 2011, 09:36:41 PM
(http://www.mtgvault.com/images/cards/medium/ALL/Pillage.jpg)

 :wat:

WANT.
(http://brontoforum.us/Smileys/classic/seconded.gif)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 30, 2011, 10:15:40 PM
See, I don't know that old shit like that exists!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on May 01, 2011, 06:39:04 AM
Seriously, Mongrel, I am all up for getting some of those Ubermyrs.

I am requesting you use your superior ability to procure weird foreign tongue cards to aid me in assembling a playset.

I want to be Fully Charged.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on May 01, 2011, 07:07:27 AM
I miss RKF art.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 01, 2011, 08:14:07 AM
RKF's wife is apparently the model for Jasmine Boreal (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=109764).

Seriously, Mongrel, I am all up for getting some of those Ubermyrs.

I am requesting you use your superior ability to procure weird foreign tongue cards to aid me in assembling a playset.

I want to be Fully Charged.

Agent Smith - Me too (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyNyHark4xk#ws)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on May 01, 2011, 08:18:05 AM
ALL WILL BE ONE.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on May 01, 2011, 09:32:58 AM
Quote
I miss RKF art.

RKF is my favorite MTG artist, by far. Dakkon Blackblade is probably my favorite card as far as art goes. When they made Korlash (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=136208) fairly recently, they got RKF back for one last hurrah to do an alternate art limited edition (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lc1c1fCeU41qe8zf1o1_400.png&imgrefurl=http://artofmtg.tumblr.com/page/2&usg=__lxq1CDvUj8EvYnUw8bQilFPi5u8=&h=385&w=400&sz=66&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=yN-ORLiDXGKjeM:&tbnh=176&tbnw=172&ei=Dpm9Tf3sCoyosAPX-4mFBg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dkorlash%2Bheir%2Bto%2Bblackblade%2Brichard%2Bkane%2Bferguson%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1152%26bih%3D663%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=577&vpy=96&dur=1979&hovh=220&hovw=229&tx=123&ty=121&page=1&ndsp=16&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 01, 2011, 11:48:27 AM
Dakkon was going to have an action figure, (http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alscustoms/images/unreleased/Dakkon.jpg) but then Hasbro snapped up WotC and muscled ReSaurus out of business.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on May 01, 2011, 12:16:03 PM
I barely bought any Legends, but Dakkon Blackblade (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=159298) was the first legend I pulled from that set, and seeing RKF on Pillage (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=3178) and Arcane Denial (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=3097) when I started really getting into the game with Alliances was a formative Magic experience for me.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 01, 2011, 01:00:06 PM
I thought it was criminal when they included the 7th Edition art of Pillage in Fire & Lightning instead of the original RKF. It deserves a foil.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on May 01, 2011, 01:13:59 PM
Found the Pillage I got from Fire & Lightning, so there's that.  EDH post updated.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 01, 2011, 05:56:14 PM
RKF was such a badass.

(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=201193&type=card) (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=2697&type=card) (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=184698&type=card)

(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=184731&type=card) (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=201212&type=card) (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=201223&type=card)

(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=1957&type=card) (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=1651&type=card) (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=2556&type=card)

As for his coming back, he did more than just Korlash. He did handful of pictures in TS block, as well as in Eventide/Shadowmoor. Nothing since then though.

You guys are making me all cantankerous again. They used to have a lot more variance in art styles, which I really enjoyed (even if Harold McNeil DID turn out to be a gigantic white supremacist, in a hilarious coincidence).

Don't get me wrong. The quality is much better than it was during the worst period (I consider the original Mirrodin block to be the nadir of MTG's art direction), but the pictures now are mostly illustrative, rather than interpretive. Just one more thing gone from the old days I guess.

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on May 01, 2011, 06:12:45 PM
Back then stuff looked like it was magic.  Now it's all techno robot glowy bullshit.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on May 01, 2011, 06:35:48 PM
Anthony Scott Waters is my favorite Magic artist. He did the Ravnica lands and some other cards.
Here's some of his Magic work. (http://fyreant.deviantart.com/gallery/6207220)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on May 01, 2011, 06:44:59 PM
For my part, I've always found the "we must put the Weatherlight crew in illustrations of common spell effects" philosophy of Tempest and subsequent blocks particularly pernicious. I felt like there were cascading failures of world design, art, and associated flavor throughout Onslaught and Mirrodin, but Ravnica onward has provided net positive satisfaction more or less continuously for me.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 01, 2011, 07:02:34 PM
Well, one of the subthemes that I don't like that has been really strong since, oh, Ravnica at least is the whole "Mage Punk" look. Even Lorwyn/Morningtide didn't much look like rustic old-country sort of art. Anything with modern phyrexians seems to exacerbate it, with MTG basically going full-on sci-fi.

I don't know that I can be bothered to care, really. The game has had a flavour bankruptcy for well over a decade. But in fairness, this is my one real concession to being an "old-timer", to think of Legends, Revised, Ice Age, Mirage, Tempest, etc. as "Real" magic and sets after Masques to be some kind of elaborate moneymaking scheme. That's not accurate or fair, it's just the gut feeling the game has always given me.

@NEx: I always loved Waters' pic of Graven Cairns, that's just a great picture, with great flavour text too.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on May 01, 2011, 08:12:18 PM
I dunno, a great past time is us coming up with great captions for new and old artwork alike.


(http://magiccards.info/scans/en/rv/13.jpg)
"I'm late for Demon class, guys.  I gotta go."


(http://magiccards.info/scans/en/m11/151.jpg)
"I HAAAATE SCIENCE!!!!!"
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 01, 2011, 08:27:17 PM
(http://magiccards.info/scans/en/m11/151.jpg)
"I HAAAATE SCIENCE!!!!!"

"... but I love baseball."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 02, 2011, 07:12:02 AM
It turns out the New Phyrexia leak was the fault of two pro players, (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/news/042811a&dcmp=ilc-mtgrss) one of whom was authorized to use it for an article he was writing.

What most concerns me is that it wasn't a WOTC employee that leaked the info, but a player of the game who got a competitive advantage over other players. What's more is that the two guys responsible got a DCI ban; practically a slap on the wrist when you consider they breached an NDA contract. The ironic thing is that they pretty much destroyed any advantage they had once the genie was out of the bottle.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 02, 2011, 07:38:37 AM
Oh I didn't post that? Ha! I thought I'd posted that here already. HERPADERP!

For what it's worth, I think it was maybe stupid of WotC, but one thing that most people are getting wrong is that they're asking "Why did Wizards give out the whole Godbook, when each magazine is only supposed to spoil one or a handful of cards?". This misses the fact that Mantignon was not supposed to be spoiling things at all. He was supposed to use the Godbook to do a set review to be published right after the set release.

Also, the whole thing is hilariously retarded. Basically it went like this: Mantignon gets set review. Can't keep it in his pants, so he shares with Wafo-Tapa (big-time French player and friends with Mantignon). Wafo-Tapa shares it with the third guy. Third guy is in a PUBLIC IRC CHANNEL and says he knows the whole set spoiler. Then someone actually said "pics or it didn't happen".

:facepalm: :lol:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on May 02, 2011, 12:31:26 PM
4x Mindcrank
4x Bloodchief Ascension
4x Liliana's Caress
3x Horrifying Revelation
3x Despise
4x Go for the Throat/Doomblade
4x Sign in Blood
4x Whispering Specter
4x Liliana's Specter
4x Vampire Lacerator
20x Land
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on May 02, 2011, 03:55:49 PM
I have an irrational love of Bloodchief Ascension, so naturally I'm thrilled that Mindcrank is putting a new spin on the deck.

Your list is a lot more permanent-centric than I'm used to (or comfortable with, really). The version I'd like to put together is:

4 Bloodchief Ascension (http://www.magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Bloodchief%20Ascension)
3 Mindcrank (http://www.magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Mindcrank)
3 Deceiver Exarch (http://www.magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Deceiver%20Exarch)
4 Splinter Twin (http://www.magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Splinter%20Twin)

4 Sea Gate Oracle (http://www.magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Sea%20Gate%20Oracle)
4 Preordain (http://www.magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Preordain)

4 Mana Leak (http://www.magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Mana%20Leak)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek (http://www.magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Inquisition%20of%20Kozilek)
4 Lightning Bolt (http://www.magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Lightning%20Bolt)
3 Norn's Annex (http://www.magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Norn's%20Annex)

4 Halimar Depths (http://www.magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Halimar%20Depths)
4 Scalding Tarn (http://www.magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Scalding%20Tarn)
3 Darkslick Shores (http://www.magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Darkslick%20Shores)
3 Blackcleave Cliffs (http://www.magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Blackcleave%20Cliffs)
4 Mountain
3 Swamp
2 Island

Not finished with my sideboard, obviously. The cool thing about the Deceiver Twin combo is how easy it is to sneak it out when the opponent's over-committed to killing the bloodcrank; then game 2 I can keep in whichever combo is most appropriate for the match-up.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 02, 2011, 04:00:48 PM
How are you initally triggering Ascension? Outside of one-power attackers and Norn's Annex, I see a total of ONE trigger: bolt.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on May 02, 2011, 04:48:40 PM
Mmm, you're right. I had Staggershock and Volt Charge in there before, and rather than deciding on which one to keep wound up dropping both by mistake. Let's say -3 Norn's Annex, -1 Swamp, +4 Volt Charge.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on May 02, 2011, 05:04:27 PM
Well, the thing is circular.  Bloodchief, once it kicks off, deals damage to a player.  Ooop, player took damage.  They need to mill.  Ooop, milling causes damage with Mindcrank!  Ooop, cards went to the graveyard, Bloodchief needs to hurt them!  Ooop, they took damage, Mindcrank sez mill.  Ooop, cards went to the graveyard, Bloodchief sez take damage! Ooop, they took damage, Mindcrank sez mill.  Ooop, cards went to the graveyard, Bloodchief sez take damage! Ooop, they took damage... &c.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 02, 2011, 05:08:16 PM
It's an infinite combo, I got that bit (after re-reading both cards). But you have to set up the Ascension first in the regular way.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on May 02, 2011, 05:16:54 PM
I'm doing it through Specters and Lacerators and things.  The nice thing is that the cards involved are all, with the exception of Ascension, common and uncommon.  I mean, maybe you could splash red and go with some Goblin Guides, but *shrug*
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 02, 2011, 05:21:56 PM
Well, your deck was creature aggro, so yeah, your trigger conditions were pretty clear.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on May 02, 2011, 06:36:48 PM
I was thinking about both decks on my drive home. For mine, I think I'd switch all four Preordains in favor of Tezzeret's Gambit (http://magiccards.info/query?q=Tezzeret%27s+gambit), because I'd much rather be casting one mana black spells on my first turn than doing something functionally similar to Halimar Depths+fetchland, whereas the Gambit can simultaneously make up for the initial card disadvantage of the Ascension and search for a Mindcrank while getting the Ascension closer to active-mode.

McDohl, I don't know what your meta's like, but mine has Into the Roil (http://magiccards.info/query?q=into+the+roil), Acidic Slime (http://magiccards.info/m11/en/161.html), Divine Offering (http://magiccards.info/query?q=Divine+Offering), and probably soon Mental Misstep (http://magiccards.info/query?q=Mental+Misstep), all of which strike me as problematic for your deck, since all of your discard is of opponent's choice other than three copies of Despise. Horrifying Revelation may be an 8-point life swing once the Ascension's active, but Inquisition of Kozilek can do a lot more to get you to that point, and is only uncommon.

Liliana's Caress reminds me of Megrim in that neither card brings a smile to my face when I draw it on turn 8 with an empty hand and battlefield.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on May 02, 2011, 10:49:38 PM
McDohl, I don't know what your meta's like, but mine has Into the Roil (http://magiccards.info/query?q=into+the+roil), Acidic Slime (http://magiccards.info/m11/en/161.html), Divine Offering (http://magiccards.info/query?q=Divine+Offering), and probably soon Mental Misstep (http://magiccards.info/query?q=Mental+Misstep),
Nope, nope, nope, and dunno.

Inquisition's a favorite of the black players around here, though.  A good idea, but it's so damn hard to get my hands on those things. :/
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 05, 2011, 11:17:40 AM
With regards to EDH, what tribe do you think Karona, False God (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=44263) would be best served by?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 08, 2011, 04:47:50 PM
(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/8397/enterthedragon.png)

:lol:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on May 09, 2011, 01:22:58 AM
With regards to EDH, what tribe do you think Karona, False God (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=44263) would be best served by?

Having never built or played an EDH deck before, I'm probably completely wrong. Having said that, my first instinct is that an elf-based deck is more reliably going to meet Karona's mana requirements, and they have a long and storied tradition of getting +3/+3. The other obvious suggestion is to go Changeling (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=145813) since you're in all five colors already, and this way you can keep Karona's benefit to yourself on your turns but your opponent has to boost your creatures as well on his turn.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on May 09, 2011, 06:19:30 PM
(http://magiccards.info/scans/en/chk/268.jpg)
Found one in a stash of cards left to me by a friend years ago.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 09, 2011, 07:55:52 PM
Always nice to get $15 for free.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on May 10, 2011, 04:43:32 AM
Or save 15 by not having to buy one for an EDH deck.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 11, 2011, 09:38:44 PM
This is a guy I know from the MTG board I go to.

Opening a Homelands booster pack!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSH40zjEGEY#)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on May 14, 2011, 08:05:35 AM
Pulled 2 Karns out of my box.  I traded one for a shiny Sword of War and Peace.

I now have all three new swords in foil. <3
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 14, 2011, 05:39:14 PM
We ordered 8 copies of Ubermyr from our favourite German retailer - cleaned him out.

:richiam:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 14, 2011, 06:04:31 PM
 :cake:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 14, 2011, 06:20:26 PM
Yeah, we're probably going to keep 4 and see what we can get for the other 4.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on May 15, 2011, 05:08:00 AM
:(
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 15, 2011, 05:05:54 PM
"See what we can get for them" does include you, McDoooooohhhhhhhhhlllllllllll.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on May 15, 2011, 05:13:12 PM
OR I found a couple places online that want like $18 for a playset, buddy.  Hit me on IRC.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 15, 2011, 05:22:20 PM
There ya go.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 18, 2011, 10:39:29 AM
 (http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/puzzle/magic-the-gathering---duels-of-the-planeswalkers-2012/video/6303529/magic-the-gathering--duels-of-the-planeswalkers-2012--teaser-trailer?tag=bounce&contsessid=823c3dd46730b4e0794d1d0dba033955&prevBounce=6314180)

Huh.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on May 18, 2011, 11:45:46 AM
Quote from: http://store.steampowered.com/app/49470/
Available: June 15th, 2011
This game will unlock in approximately 3 weeks, 6 days

All-new and redesigned, Magic: The Gathering — Duels of the Planeswalkers 2012 takes last year’s massive hit game to even greater heights with better graphics, more options, and new challenges!

Face off against the AI, or gather your allies for the new multiplayer format: Archenemy, where you team up to take down a boss opponent. And if one of your fellow Planeswalkers drops out, no problem–the AI will drop in for uninterrupted action!

Featuring ten unique decks, Duels of the Planeswalkers 2012 also lets you customize those decks. As you progress in the game, you can enhance your deck by swapping in new, unlockable cards!

Gather your allies. A challenge awaits.

Apparently being sold as a whole new game. Not expansion pack, then? Hm.

I like Archenemy, but we'll see how this goes, I guess.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on May 18, 2011, 11:52:34 AM
that game will never be really good until you can fully customize decks
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on May 18, 2011, 11:54:41 AM
This is, of course, impossible because of the bullshit people would do that would break the game (literally. Freeze it/crash it.) So you'd have to play with Magic workstation if that's what you want, and that's boring. It's just playing with virtual cards on a virtual table.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on May 18, 2011, 11:55:22 AM
Is anyone still making updates for Apprentice?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on May 18, 2011, 11:59:27 AM
Quote from: http://www.magic-league.com/download/apprentice.php
Here you can download Apprentice and the latest patch featuring all the latest sets: Future Sight and Tenth Edition! Apprentice is a program to play Magic: the Gathering online. The size is below 2 MB.
Full Download

(including all MTG sets up to Future Sight & 10th Edition)

    * Apprentice 1.46 (from: Magic-League.com)
      Last updated: 2010-11-01 18:23 CET

Quote from: http://sourceforge.net/projects/apprentice2/
Last Update

2007-06-22

Gonna go with no on this one.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on May 18, 2011, 12:06:28 PM
Well, here's Mirrodin Besieged. (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=297529) Magic Workstation seems to get updated faster, though.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 18, 2011, 07:04:08 PM
that game will never be really good until it's Shandalar

Which will never happen because they really just want to get people onto MODO.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 20, 2011, 05:30:56 PM
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/FramFramson/UBERMENSCH.jpg)

I AM ZE ÜBERMENSCH!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 20, 2011, 07:27:33 PM
Oooh ooh! I got an idea for a Myr deck.

Myr + burn, fueled by Geosurge (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=218004) and Priest of Urabrask (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=218037). Some Goblin Bushwhackers (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=177501) for speed, maybe splash something that gives card advantage, or just Molten Psyche (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=212716). What do you guys think?

also I want some Übermyrs plz mongrel check your inbox
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 24, 2011, 06:37:31 AM
So, M12, y'all heard about it yet?

(http://imageshack.us/m/706/2584/m12e.png)
(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118077&d=1304058954)

There's the wording changes. Most people agree with "dies" (replaces "goes to the graveyard from the battlefield") and most people think "hexproof" is completely retarded.




But then there's this:































(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y11/horseteeth/photochops/hex-proof.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 24, 2011, 08:07:03 AM
So is "dies" going to be applied to all permanents or just creatures? Because it will seem a bit awkward to template something like Rancor or Dingus Egg.

 
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on May 24, 2011, 08:55:45 AM
Dies is when a creature goes to the graveyard from play. Other permanents just go to the graveyard from play.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Classic on May 24, 2011, 09:52:50 AM
A card not in play is not a permanent, right? You must be "in play" to be a permanent?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on May 24, 2011, 09:58:20 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Bongo Bill on May 24, 2011, 10:00:50 AM
Did they add anything for planeswalker removal?

Not that I care. I just don't like planeswalkers.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on May 24, 2011, 11:24:21 AM
I've never looked up the rules for planeswalkers. Do they get kicked out by cards like "return target permanent to its owner's hand" or "destroy target permanent?" Are they permanents?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on May 24, 2011, 11:52:43 AM
Planeswalkers are permanents and therefore can be targeted by things like Boomerang (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=201122) and Vindicate (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=19135). Wizards doesn't have a problem with planeswalker removal, just with the phrase "destroy target planeswalker".
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 24, 2011, 11:56:55 AM
They have started printing cards that refer to planeswalkers directly: Norn's Annex (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=233050) and Despise (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=233043).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on May 24, 2011, 12:03:30 PM
Plus, of course, there's Hex Parasite (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=218008).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on May 24, 2011, 01:10:23 PM
Vampire Hexmage.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 24, 2011, 07:02:05 PM
Those don't actually have "planeswalker" in the rules text.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 24, 2011, 09:27:57 PM
Bad news for limited players.

They're also reprinting Flameblast Dragon (and Gideon, but I think everyone already knew that one?). Which is so much fun to play against in a draft.

Also, Giant Growth is out ( ::(: ) and Giant Spider's in. In the set with Bloodthirst. Are you kidding me?! I guess TIMMY BLOCKS ALL DAY AND WINS is uh... fun... if you're been playing for only two weeks?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on May 25, 2011, 02:52:10 AM
Those don't actually have "planeswalker" in the rules text.

Why's that necessary? Mortify (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=96930) is creature removal, yes, but that doesn't mean that Vindicate (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=19135) isn't also creature removal, despite the fact that it doesn't specifically mention creatures anywhere in the text box. For 2 black mana, Vampire Hexmage (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=192232) will kill any planeswalker at sorcery speed. Why should it matter that it can also disarm modular creatures, or what-have-you?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on May 25, 2011, 04:34:10 AM
Maelstrom Pulse will kill Planeswalkers but good too.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 25, 2011, 05:06:07 AM
Bad news for limited players.

They're also reprinting Flameblast Dragon (and Gideon, but I think everyone already knew that one?). Which is so much fun to play against in a draft.

Also, Giant Growth is out ( ::(: ) and Giant Spider's in. In the set with Bloodthirst. Are you kidding me?! I guess TIMMY BLOCKS ALL DAY AND WINS is uh... fun... if you're been playing for only two weeks?

I blame Jace.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on May 25, 2011, 08:34:09 AM
just because there will be no "giant growth" doesn't mean there won't be combat tricks. i will bet you a hundred of your comedy dollars that there will be a giant growth variant in m12. they've learned how to make core sets that aren't about sitting around forever these days
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on May 25, 2011, 02:59:38 PM
I still like that wall in New Phyrexia that says "HAY TITANS I HERD YOU LIKE GETTING PUNKED OUT BY DEFENDER CREATURES *splat*

<Everyone but Frost Titan> :c

<Frost Titan> :3
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 25, 2011, 07:30:21 PM
just because there will be no "giant growth" doesn't mean there won't be combat tricks. i will bet you a hundred of your comedy dollars that there will be a giant growth variant in m12. they've learned how to make core sets that aren't about sitting around forever these days

Of course there will be a combat trick of some kind. It's one of Green's ONLY surprise plays, given how heavily they depend on permanents. There's a green combat trick in like every set ever.

The issue is that lots of people are speculating the reason GG was cut was so Wizards could include a combat trick that grants trample because some idiot thinks that would go great with bloodthirst. Which it absolutely wouldn't.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on May 25, 2011, 07:49:05 PM
Honestly, Green has like a billion combat tricks right now.  While I'm sad that Giant Growth won't be reprinted (because I can't use my shiny one with the GLOWING BEAR EYES), I dunno, something something.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 26, 2011, 06:47:57 AM
The issue is that lots of people are speculating the reason GG was cut was so Wizards could include a combat trick that grants trample because some idiot thinks that would go great with bloodthirst. Which it absolutely wouldn't.

Hmmm, Wildsize? Predator's Strike?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 26, 2011, 08:21:34 AM
Yeah, those are big guesses.

Also stuff like battlegrowth, since some folks are speculating that +1/+1 counters will be a big theme in Innistrad.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 30, 2011, 03:56:29 PM
God, reading the MTGSalvation Standard Forum is depressing. Anybody know any decent forums for discussing Magic?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 30, 2011, 06:23:04 PM
Nope.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeelllll... actually the goodgamery forums (www.goodgamery.com (http://www.goodgamery.com)) are tolerable, but ONLY if you stay within a few "Serious Magical Discussion" threads. And then only sometimes.

Salvation is one of the wretched stinkpits of the underbelly of the internet. I tolerate that site for two subforums: The rumor mill (new cards!) and the market street cafe (best pricing info anywhere), but you can't actually READ the threads. Just the first posts, where they put the summary information.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on May 30, 2011, 07:01:10 PM
Yeah, I'll occasionally skim Salvation's Standard forums just to get an idea of how my pet cards and mechanics are doing in the competitive environment, since I barely play Magic myself*. But yeah, actually reading the threads is an exercise in masochism. I usually only remember that's the case once I'm on page 6, though.

* Actually, though, the main guy I used to play Magic with just announced that a girl he works with said she wanted to play him, so he's decided to get back into the game. (He'd quit during TIme Spiral block when he bought two boxes in hopes of pulling copies of Teferi and didn't get a single one.**) Looks like my days of never actually playing the game may be over for a while.

** I've tried to explain to him why it's more cost effective to buy singles than to buy boxes, but such common sense reasoning is lost on him. This is the same guy who buys 36 to 60 videogames a year and actually plays five of those.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 30, 2011, 07:37:50 PM
Well, the EDH forums on Salvation are okay. They have lots of ideas for decks.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 01, 2011, 10:40:28 AM
So apparently Sol Ring and Lightning Greaves will be in the Commander precons.

That's pretty cool.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on June 01, 2011, 11:49:12 AM
Quote
I've tried to explain to him why it's more cost effective to buy singles than to buy boxes

Explain it to me?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on June 01, 2011, 02:11:52 PM
Quote
I've tried to explain to him why it's more cost effective to buy singles than to buy boxes

Explain it to me?

He probably meant in the specific instance of looking for a specific card.  Teferi was a Time Spiral rare.  There are 80 Time Spiral rares, so on average, only 1 of every 80 Time Spiral boosters you buy will have a Teferi in it.  I forget whether boosters are $3 or $4, but unless buying a Teferi costs more than $240 or $320 respectively, it's cheaper on average to buy a Teferi than to pull boxes hoping for a Teferi.

That assumes none of the other cards you pull hunting for a Teferi have value for you, though.  If you have the capacity to dump every other card you get for market value, it might be cheaper overall to buy packs, but that's a huge assumption.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on June 01, 2011, 02:18:22 PM
oh, i am a dumb and read "singles" as "packs".
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on June 01, 2011, 02:42:14 PM
Bitchin'.  I've already got a few Lightning Greaves kicking around...I think they were printed for one of the Archenemy decks. 

Yep, they're in one of the Archenemy boxes.  Specifically, the Esper-colored one.  "Assemble the Doomsday Machine"

Sol Ring, OTOH?  WANT.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 01, 2011, 05:31:30 PM
Kinda makes me feel silly for holding onto mine since Revised.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 01, 2011, 05:58:05 PM
The best part is that it uses the new art.
I mean the old art is iconic and quite good! But the new art was just stunning.

Anyway, don't feel bad. That was a sound decision for about 16 years.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: on June 01, 2011, 09:46:28 PM
(http://www.pvponline.com/comics/pvp20110601.png)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 02, 2011, 04:03:01 AM
Relentless Rats would make more sense.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 02, 2011, 04:32:25 AM
McDOoooooooooohhhhhhhlllll!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on June 02, 2011, 05:25:55 AM
30x Relentless rats
4x Thrumming Stone
4x Dark Ritual
22x Swamp

I REGRET NOTHING.

EDIT: I need to make an EDH version of this deck, but I need a general and possibly a better form of of search than just Diabolic tutor.  I doubt I can get my hands on demonic tutor, and I don't have Liliana anymore. :(
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 02, 2011, 05:38:03 AM
I'll trade you mine.

:3
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on June 02, 2011, 05:40:52 AM
b...but I traded her to YOU for a bunch of Relentless Rats!!!  D:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 02, 2011, 07:58:55 AM
Lilliana is worth just a couple of bucks anyway. Go drop a fiver and pick one up.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 02, 2011, 10:18:40 AM
I need a general

(http://www.mtgvault.com/images/cards/medium/CHK/Marrow-Gnawer.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on June 02, 2011, 11:37:24 AM
Yeah, I could do him with a coat of arms.

"I swing for 60 general points."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 02, 2011, 03:02:30 PM
I was at my friendly local game store and I asked the manager about the EDH precon decks. Turns out that they may be short on product because Wizards didn't foresee the demand. Also because people are buying whole display boxes.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 02, 2011, 07:15:31 PM
Ah, I'll just buy the singles I want. There's a lot of these dorks I don't need.

I haven't seen a legend I'd actually put in an EDH deck yet (not that they're unplayable, I just don't care), though I'm keeping an eye out for legacy-playables (slim chances, but not impossible). So far I think I want an Edric, Guild Navigator and maybe one of those Archangels of Strife.

Of course most of the stuff hasn't been spoiled yet.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 02, 2011, 07:30:42 PM
I know! I was surprised at how tight-lipped they're being about it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on June 05, 2011, 11:12:13 AM
So, Jor-Kadeen is fucking fantastic as a general.

Metalcraft Cockpunch

GENERAL: Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer (5/4 Human Warrior, First strike, Metalcraft - Creatures you control get +3/+0)

TERRITORY (Land)
14x Plains
13x Mountain
Arid Mesa (Fetch Plains or Mountain)
Naya Panorama (Fetch Plains or Mountain)
Mystifying Maze (4, T: Exile target attacking creature, it comes back tapped at end of turn)
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle (6+ Mountains come in to play, Valakut deals 3 damage to creature or player)
Great Furnace (Artifact Land, taps for R)
Ancient Den (Artifact Land, taps for W)

WARRIOR
Kor Firewalker (2/2, Pro Red, gains life when someone casts a red spell)
Kemba, Kha Regent (2/4, makes a 2/2 cat token for each equipment attached to her during upkeep)
Hero of Bladehold (3/4, Battle cry, Makes 2 soldier tokens that attack when he attacks)
Rhox Pikemaster (3/3, First strike, gives other soldiers first strike)
Dragonmaster Outcast (1/1, makes a 5/5 Dragon at each upkeep if you control 6 or more lands)
Urabrask the Hidden (4/4, Creatures you control have haste, creatures opponents control come in to play tapped)
Balefire Liege (2/4, Other Red and/or white creatures get +1/+1, when you cast a red spell, deal 3 damage to target player, when you cast a white spell, gain 3 life.)
Leonin Shikari (2/2, Equip abilities can be played at instant-speed)
Windbrisk Raptor (5/7, Flying, attacking creatures you control have lifelink.)
Mirran Crusader (2/2 Double strike, Pro-black/green)
Boros Swiftblade (1/2, Double strike)
Reya Dawnbringer (4/6, Flying, Return a creature card from graveyard to play during upkeep.)
Darien, King of Kjeldor (3/3, When you're dealt damage, you may put that many 1/1 white soldier tokens in to play)
Bloodshot Cyclops, AKA Chuck (4/4, T, Sac a creature: Chuck deals damage equal to sacced creature's power to target creature or player)
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite (4/7, Vigilance, Other creatures you control get +2/+2, opponents' creatures get -2/-2)
Field Marshal (2/2 Other soldiers get +1/+1 and first strike)
Puresteel Paladin (2/2, when you play an equipment, draw a card, Metalcraft - Equip costs are 0)
Sunblast Angel (4/5, Flying, When it comes in to play, destroy all tapped creatures)
Hero of Oxid Ridge (4/2, Haste, Battle cry, When he attacks, creatures with power 1 or less can't block)
Wall of Omens (0/4, defender, when it comes in to play, draw a card)
Gerrard Capshen (3/4, Gain life equal to the number of cards in an opponent's hand.  3W: Tap target creature.  Activate only if Gerrard is attacking)
Figure of Destiny (This dude is crazy.)
Leonin Abunas (2/5, Artifacts you control have hexproof.)
Stoneforge Mystic (Tutors equipment, 1W, T: Play equipment.)
Knight-Captain of Eos (2/2, makes 2 soldier tokens.  W, Sac a soldier: Fog.)

ENCHANTMENTS
Luminarch Ascension (1W, if I didn't lose life during an opponent's turn, put a counter on it.  1W: put a 4/4 Angel in to play, use only if there are 4 counters.)
Shackles (2W, Enchanted creature doesn't untap during controller's untap step.  W: bounce Shackles.
Quest for the Holy Relic (W.  When you cast a creature, put a counter on it. Remove 5 counters and sac it: Tutor an equipment, put it in to play attached to a creature.)
Oblivion Ring (2W, Exile a target permanent, when O-Ring leaves play, return exiled permanent under opponent's control.)
Shared Animosity (2R, When a creature you control attacks, it gets +1/+0 until EoT for each other attacking creature it shares a type with.)
Forced Worship (1W, Enchanted creature can't attack.  2W, bounce Forced Worship.)
Glory of Warfare (2RW, During your turn, your creatures get +2/+0, during opponents' turns, your creatures get +0/+2)
Emblem of the Warmind (1R, Enchant creature, creatures you control have haste.)
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth (10, 12/12, when he is cast, draw 4 cards.  Annihlator 4, when he hits the graveyard from anywhere, shuffle graveyard back in to deck.)

INSTANT/SORCERY
Lightning Helix (RW, Lightning Bolt + Gain 3 life)
Dawn Charm (1W, Choose one - Fog, Regenerate target creature, counter target spell that targets you.)
Mana Tithe (W, Counter target spell unless its controller pays 1)
Path to Exile (W, Exile a creature, its controller can fetch a basic land)
Swords to Plowshares (W, Exile a creature.  Its controller gains life equal to its power.)
Red Elemental Blast (R, Counter a blue spell, or destroy a blue permanent)
Searing Blaze (RR, 1 damage to creature and its controller, or 3 if a land came in to play.)
Soul Parry (1W, Prevent all damage one or two creatures would deal this turn)
Day of Judgement (2WW, blow up all creatures)
Red Sun Zenith (XR, deal X damage to a creature, if it dies, it's exiled.  Shuffle Zenith back in to the deck)
Revoke Existence (1W, Exile target artifact or enchantment.)
Relentless Assault (2RR, Untap all creatures that attacked this turn, after this main phase, there's another combat phase and main phase.)

ARMORY (Equipment)
Argentum Armor (6, equip 6, equipped creature gets +6/+6, nuke a permanent when equipped creature attacks.)
Sword of Feast and Famine (3, equip 2, +2/+2, Pro Black/Green, when creature damages a player, they discard a card, you untap all your lands.)
Sword of Body and Mind (3, equip 2, +2/+2, Pro Green/Blue, when creature damages a player, put a 2/2 Wolf in to play, target mills 10 cards.)
Sword of War and Peace (3, equip 2, +2/+2, Pro Red/White, when creature damages a player, that player takes damage equal to cards in hand, you gain life equal to cards in hand.)
General's Kabuto (4, equip 2, equipped creature gets shroud, prevent all damage to equipped creature)
Whispersilk cloak (3, equip 2, equipped creature is unblockable and has shroud)
Loxodon Warhammer (3, equip 3, +3/+0, trample, and lifelink.)
Lightning Greaves (2, equip 0, shroud and haste)
Sword of Vengeance (3, equip 3, +2/+0, first strike, vigilance, trample, haste)
Tenza, Godo's Maul (3, equip 1, +1/+1, if it's legendary, +3/+3 instead.  If it's red, TRAMPLE.)

RELICS
Eldrazi Monument (5, Creatures you control get +1/+1, Flying, indestructible, sac a creature during upkeep.  If you can't, sac Eldrazi Monument)
Everflowing Chalice (0, Multikicker 2, gets a counter for each kick, taps for colorless mana equal to number of charge counters.)
Contagion Clasp (2, when it enters play, put a -1/-1 on a creature.  4, T: Proliferate.)
Isochron Scepter (2, Imprint instant card with converted mana cost 2 or less.  2, T: Cast imprinted card.)
Contagion Engine (6, When it comes in to play, put -1/-1 counters on a player's creature.  4, T: Proliferate, and proliferate again.)
Myr Turbine (5, T: put a myr token in to play.  Who cares about the other ability.)
Throne of Geth (2, T, Sac an artifact: Proliferate)
Myr Matrix (5, Indestructible.  All Myr get +1/+1, 5: Put a myr token in to play.)

ALLIES (Planeswalkers)
Koth of the Hammer
Ajani Goldmane
Elspeth, Knight-Errant

Other cards I would like:

Raksha Golden Cub
Gideon Jura (He becomes a Soldier!)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 06, 2011, 05:23:22 AM
Jor Kadeen's some kind of ultimate warrior.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on June 06, 2011, 05:27:04 AM
(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/stf/stf141_jor.jpg)

:omg: :jizz:

he

he even has the face paint

i didn't even notice that
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on June 06, 2011, 09:27:57 AM
I found a Future Sight card.

Boldwyr Intimidator
Creature - Giant Warrior 5RR, 5/5
Cowards can't block Warriors.
R: Target creature's type becomes Coward until end of turn.
2R: Target creature's type becomes Warrior until end of turn.

HE FILLS THEM WITH THE POWER AND THE WORDS OF THE ULTIMATE WARRIOR!!!  YOU'LL NEED TO GO FASTER THAN WARP TEN TO FIGHT THIS POWER, EXCEPT YOU WON'T TURN IN TO SALAMANDERS AND HAVE FREAKY SEX ON A PLANET!!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 06, 2011, 11:23:40 AM
Hmmmm

Haze of Rage
Rage Reflection
Urza's Rage
Anger
Seething Anger
Breath of Fury
Aggravated Assault
Savage Beating
World at War
Boros Guildmage
Hellkite Charger
Sunhome Enforcer
Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
Mobilization
Martial Coup
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 06, 2011, 12:32:39 PM
Temporary Insanity
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 06, 2011, 08:30:11 PM
Mycosynth Lattice (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=50527) + Bludgeon Brawl (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=218055) + Vulshok Battlemaster (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=48125)  :whoops:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on June 07, 2011, 05:20:28 AM
I have those, except for the Vulshok dude.  I WANT.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 11, 2011, 07:18:09 AM
Well, the EDH preconstructed decks have been spoiled. Now watch their prices spike up to $60 each.  :painful:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 11, 2011, 04:38:09 PM
Been following those as they've been spoiled (naturally). It's funny, I don't want any of the legends (except one copy of Edric to try out as a Tutor target in Survival - still waiting for the ultimate U/G card-drawing creature, damnit), but I sure as hell want some of the other cards.

Especially Chaos Warp. I am going to try and get quite a few copies of that sucker.

Oh and the price can't skyrocket: It's being released in too many mass-market stores in the US (WalMart etc.), like the Duel Decks. That will keep a lid on prices - until supply dries up anyway.

In about two years though all bets will be off. If even one single sees significant legacy play, it'll be worth quite a bit (anywhere from $10-$50, depending on exactly what card and how much play it sees), because the individual cards will be less-available in the long run (by a large margin) than even P3K or Portal cards.

Of course, take all that with a grain of salt. These decks have some parallels to dual decks (print run, marketing type, target audience, etc.), but no dual decks have featured entirely new cards before.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 11, 2011, 07:31:37 PM
Okay, question for you guys. I've been trying to suss out answers elsewhere on this, but no one seems to have a strong opinion or decent argument one way or another.

As stated above, I am GREATLY interested in the potential of Chaos Warp. I think it has a real shot of possibly making it in some ?//red or plain monored Legacy decks, but trying to properly assess the real potential of this card is HARD.

The card in question:

Chaos Warp 2R
Instant
The owner of target permanent shuffles it into his or her library, then reveals the top card of his or her library. If it's a permanent card, he or she puts it onto the battlefield.

+It's an Instant
+It's got that beautiful Vindicate functionality - and in mono-red no less
+Splashable
+Can hit lands
+If you're hitting a creature to save yourself from an attack, that will still happen even if your opponent gets a better card
+Can sometimes be straight card advantage plus info for you (they reveal a non-permanent)
+Save your own stuff, or fish for an emergency helper of your own
+Resets the card even if they get it back again (relevant for pumped/equipped cards, cards with tokens/counters on them, planeswalkers, etc.)
+Keeping the card out of the opponent's 'yard can be a good thing
+Forces a shuffle (very very occasionally useful)
+You're mostly going to be playing this when an opponent has 3 or 4 lands already, so their hitting a land with this isn't nearly as bad as say, the drawback on Goblin Guide.

-Can easily be card disadvantage
-Can backfire (they get a permanent that puts you in an even worse place, or worse - they get the same card back)
-If they can tutor the card repeatedly, this is nothing more than a brief tempo speed bump (not really too much of an objection, but sometimes relevant)

A whole lot of small and moderate pros, with some bigger cons. I figure this comes down to the math. What chance does an opponent have of playing a permanent that makes them better off, or at least leaves them in the same position? The average deck will be a little over a third lands, with some non-zero number of non-permanents (sometimes quite a lot). On a good day, you'll destroy something and they'll get nothing, on a bad day they'll be playing reanimator for free.

What do you guys think? Straight up good card? Straight up bad card? Good situationally/in the right deck?

EDIT: Just so this is clear, the shuffle effect and topdeck are all part of the same resolution. So no, this is not some crazy Tinker variant (with say, Sensei's Top). The top card will always be random.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 15, 2011, 08:11:27 PM
As stated above, I am GREATLY interested in the potential of Chaos Warp.

Hope you're looking forward to paying $20 apiece for them. :whoops:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on June 15, 2011, 10:30:13 PM
Chaos Warp can never be card advantage. It can be a one-for-one like most removal, or it can be card disadvantage if your target lucks into a permanent or is running Warp World.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 16, 2011, 05:23:27 AM
As stated above, I am GREATLY interested in the potential of Chaos Warp.

Hope you're looking forward to paying $20 apiece for them. :whoops:

More like $25.

Which is dumb, because once Target/WalMart etc. get their shipments, no one's going to pay $25 for a single card that's in a $30 deck when that deck has several other cards worth getting in it.

Price should drop to $10 or $15 tops, then go up after the mass-market stores run out. I did hear that the initial shipment was going to be a little short, but Wizards is planning to put out a LARGE quantity of this set - this ain't no FTV - so it shouldn't run out right away once stock is up.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on June 16, 2011, 06:33:57 AM
Well, duels of the Planeswalkers 2012 improves over the original a decent bit. Online two-headed giant, archenemy. You can actually remove cards from decks now as well as add. However, I don't have all the decks I previously unlocked now.
:humpf:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on June 16, 2011, 06:37:19 AM
The Gideon Jura deck is actually pretty rad.  I just wish I had more Stoneforge Mystics in it.

Oh, and Karn is a WHORE.  Moxes?  Icy Manipulators?  REALLY?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 16, 2011, 06:40:29 AM
this ain't no FTV

Speaking of which, who do you like for FTV: Legends? Are the rumours about Xiahou Dun being in the set justified?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on June 16, 2011, 09:20:52 AM
I find it very fitting that Karn uses the cards he does. I mean, he's Karn. He's an honest to god Planeswalker. Not some punk mage with the spark like the rest of those who claim to be planeswalkers these days.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on June 16, 2011, 09:46:18 AM
Just the annoyance of "Hey, here's a Standard deck.  Now go beat some dude who's been playing since Alpha and has cards nobody would ever see physical copies unless they went to Legacy tournaments and got waxed."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on June 16, 2011, 09:51:22 AM
My favorite thing I've read about it so far is this:

Quote
Yeah, Karn's deck is really cheap. I was playing with Grizzly Bears, he was playing with Moxes. Not really a fair fight. I did manage to get him the second time I played him, though, the trick is to just keep starting a new game every time he does something stupidly unfair, like Tinker for a Colossus on turn 2 (first game against me). The best chance to beat him is probably with Gideon's deck, where his silly Tinker shenanagins would be foiled by Gideon's tapper or Arrest.

It's like I'm really playing against one of those assholes. :whoops:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on June 16, 2011, 10:59:56 AM
Yeah, that's how I just beat Karn.

Cause he got mana-screwed.  With moxes.

:lol:

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 16, 2011, 01:12:13 PM
this ain't no FTV

Speaking of which, who do you like for FTV: Legends? Are the rumours about Xiahou Dun being in the set justified?

Not really sure to be honest! The only Legend I'm betting on (other than Teferi, herpaderp) is Captain Sisay.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 19, 2011, 08:37:53 PM
Ahahahahahohohohohohoheeheheeheeheeahahahahahahahohohohoheeheeohohohohahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/148a)

I for one cannot believe they actually did it. I mean it's a day late and a dollar short, but oh man. HA!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on June 19, 2011, 08:39:59 PM
Jace and Mystic were due to rotate in a few months.  Wow.

I'm right in your boat, Mongrel.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 19, 2011, 08:57:31 PM
Quote from: Aaron Forsythe
But then the formal complaints began pouring in, followed by a drop in attendance—pronounced at Pro Tour Qualifiers, shocking at the recent New Phyrexia Game Day, more subtle but just as real at Friday Night Magic—that we can't ignore. If people don't want to play the game, we need to fix it.

There exists a crowd of competitive players who pursue perfection, who have no personal attachment to any certain cards or decks save those that reward them for their great skill and dedication. I very much appreciate that mindset; in fact, much of our organized play encourages it. But there exists a larger crowd for whom decks and cards are extensions of themselves, who revel in diverse metagames wherein they can show off their creativity. They want to be able to play decks that suit their whims and personalities without feeling like they are wasting their time; they want Magic to afford them the opportunities to individualize while still taking it seriously. Standard has lost that in recent months, and we aim to bring it back.

Gee, you think? It really took you that goddamned long to do something about a deck archetype that was strangling Standard for months? Not that it's going to do much now.

At times like these, all I can think of is that guy in the foreground of The Netherlandish Proverbs who's filling in the hole his goat drowned in.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 19, 2011, 09:12:53 PM
My next order of business is to enact a longstanding plan: To start shopping my extra Time Vault for at least a playset of Jaces and probably a good bit more. Starr and I have 2 Jaces each, so now's the time to complete those playsets (or even pick up more copies).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on June 19, 2011, 11:17:51 PM
I wonder if this is a calculated move on Wizards part: they ban a card that was going to lose most of its value in a few months anyway, so now the people who own four won't feel quite as ripped off, and at the same time the people who hate Jace (whether they could afford four or not) also don't feel quite as ignored, even though a few more months would have seen the end of Jace anyway.

I feel like maybe Wizards had an impossible choice to make, and so they just sort of split the difference in the hopes of losing the least amount of customers each way.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on June 20, 2011, 06:08:19 AM
Like they said, they were finally hit where it hurts: Less people started showing up for their events. Every other expression of consumer rage is like bubbles.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 20, 2011, 06:54:52 AM
Yeah, they basically admitted that it was people voting with their wallets that swung them.

That, and the deluge of mail they (apparently) received along the lines of "No WotC, we actually DO hate this format."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 20, 2011, 07:45:16 AM
Whoa, really? Actual factual mail?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on June 20, 2011, 07:46:26 AM
I imagine more grumpy e-mails than snail mail.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 20, 2011, 12:18:37 PM
Ho ho, now people are bitching because Stoneforge Mystic was in the Event Deck and that this was all a conspiracy to sell a product that people couldn't use.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on June 20, 2011, 12:24:08 PM
They put in a specific exclusion allowing Stoneforge Mystic if left in the unaltered precon deck.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on June 20, 2011, 12:28:35 PM
They've never before had a banned card in standard that had a special exception where you can play it as long as it's in this exact decklist, and yet this was clearly an attempt to get people to buy a product and then immediately devalue it, or something...? Magic has never been this popular, yet its fans have never been this whiny.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on June 20, 2011, 12:33:44 PM
Isn't the point of preconstructed decks to improve them? They don't come out of the box kicking ass.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 20, 2011, 12:34:00 PM
SKINNER
Well, I was wrong. The faeries are a godsend.

LISA
But isn't that a bit short-sighted? What happens when we're overrun by faerie decks?

SKINNER
No problem. We simply unleash wave after wave of Bloodbraid Elves. They'll wipe out the faeries.

LISA
But aren't the Elves even worse?

SKINNER
Yes, but we're prepared for that. We've lined up a fabulous update of Jace that thrives on card advantage.

LISA
But then we're stuck with Jace!

SKINNER
No, that's the beautiful part. When summertime rolls around, the card simply gets banned.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on June 20, 2011, 12:52:21 PM
Isn't the point of preconstructed decks to improve them? They don't come out of the box kicking ass.

That's true of most preconstructed decks, yes, but Event Decks are designed to be competitive at the Friday Night Magic level. They're intended to be a way for casual or new players to get into FNM Standard without having to do a bunch of research that they've never done before and figure out how to track down a bunch of semi-competitive cards. The Stoneforge Mystic Exception means that a player who just bought the affected Event Deck can still play it at FNM, but if he or she wants to change it, he or she will need to take the Mystics out first.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 20, 2011, 02:05:26 PM
its fans have never been this whiny.

Ohohoho that's a real knee-slapper.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on June 20, 2011, 02:17:26 PM
Perhaps I should have worded that better. "Magic has never been this popular" means that we're mathematically likely to be at the point of greatest whininess, regardless of whether fans are more or less satisfied on average.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 20, 2011, 04:16:17 PM
:lol:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 20, 2011, 07:21:03 PM
One last joke and I'm done.

(http://i.imgur.com/Ir6pw.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 23, 2011, 01:06:23 PM
McDohl.

Are you still trying to build Relentless Rats.EDH for reals?

If you are, a friend suggested two big cards: Akroma's Memorial and Eldrazi Monument. All those vanilla haste-less rats are just begging for a Wrath, etc.

People I know are very interested in the results (i.e. is this a functional deck at all?).

EDIT: Further suggestion:

Quote
Mimic Vat, Minion Reflector... Corpse Dance?

EDIT2: Cover of Darkness.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on June 23, 2011, 02:50:59 PM
I would honestly never run it more then one tournament. All it takes is a Lobotomy in some sideboard to shut it down after.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 23, 2011, 03:39:54 PM
Oh obviously, this is basically THE definition of a one-trick-pony deck. Though there are actually quite a few no-sideboard tourneys. 
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on June 23, 2011, 04:32:28 PM
Who's going to run Lobotomize, a card that removes ALL COPIES OF A CARD in a singleton format?

Besides, I'm thinking that the singleton clause of EDH's rules circumvent Relentless Rats' card text.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 23, 2011, 05:05:25 PM
Nope. You can run as manay copies as you want. This was confirmed by Matt Tabak (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/other/102909a#100012).

The Relentless Rats deck is real. It may not be GOOD, but it's definitely real.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 23, 2011, 06:50:40 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/6a6LZ.jpg)

 :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou:

Get the hell out of my Standard, you emo pissbiscuit.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on June 23, 2011, 07:47:07 PM
...You've got to be joking.

FACTCHECKING EDIT:

MTGSalvation says yes, but their source, the official Wizards Spoiler, does not have the card.

...and what show on G4 even talks about MTG?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on June 23, 2011, 08:42:50 PM
That 0 seems ruinous.  That's pretty much "Win in 5 turns unless Jace gets killed", isn't it?  And you are of course Blue, with all the stalling and countering keep-this-guy-alive that represents.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 23, 2011, 09:14:13 PM
Not really. Mill has never been an effective win strategy except in cases where you can do it all in one go (painterstone, for instance). Five turns is a Lonnng time to be doing nothing with your planeswalker.

This Jace sadly suffers from the "Can't protect myself" crippling flaw that always separates the usable planeswalkers from the chaff ones. Granted his final is quite powerful, and his +1 is okay (it would be nutty good on a cheaper walker, but on a 5 cmc 'walker with no defences it's nothing to write home about). He might conceivably see play in a deck that can protect him and has use for his mill, but unless a deck like that exists in Standard, most decks will just turn to the versatile Wallet Sculptor instead.

What I AM hoping for is a playable Chandra, preferably a "disposable" one at 3 cmc. Mono-R burn and/or aggro have yet to get a truly properly usable walker (sorry Koth, but you're a day late and a dollar short) and that bugs me to no end.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on June 24, 2011, 02:11:44 AM
The advantage that THIS Jace has is that you can target yourself with the mill, since Innistrad has been confirmed to be a graveyard block with flashback returning.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 24, 2011, 05:06:28 AM
True, but self-milling is often overrated.

On the other hand, this card is quite useful even without the self-mill, which is normally what you need for a self-mill card to actually see play.

He's still a 5 cmc Planeswalker with a slow ultimate who can't protect himself, so we'll see. I did see some folks suggesting new Jace + New Rhino that denies opponent a combat phase + Venser + Gideon may be the core of a new U/W control deck.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 03, 2011, 06:34:21 AM
Who would you say is the least-appealing artist working on MTG these days? For me, it's Raymond Swanland. His work seems to consist of the following, in any combination:
Give me Drew Tucker or RKF over this clown any day.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 03, 2011, 05:35:49 PM
I'm not saying he's my most hated, but Wayne Reynolds could easily beat Swanland in those departments. Plus "same pose every pic".
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 03, 2011, 06:10:43 PM
Wayne Reynolds does do a lot of things I don't like. His artwork for Tariel (spiky, impractical armour, too many ribbons, and a giant axe. It's like all the least-appealing elements of over-the-top fantasy) turned me off from buying the Heavenly Inferno deck (not to mention her ability is pretty meh).

But at least he knows how to use colour and shape rather than just smearing a canvas with poop.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on July 09, 2011, 09:22:24 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/zWqoH.png)

Is this a politics joke or is it just me?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 10, 2011, 04:40:11 AM
That is a real card.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on July 10, 2011, 10:18:10 AM
I know it's a real card.  I meant the card itself.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 10, 2011, 10:39:58 AM
Could be a coincidence. I don't think Wizards is sly enough to make that kind of oblique comparison.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 10, 2011, 05:20:51 PM
Yeah. Similarly, people were saying that the new Smallpox (it's being reprinted in M12) is some kind of social commentary, but I think the same applies.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 10, 2011, 05:50:43 PM
Re: M12

(http://mtghunter.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/217_solemn_simulacrum.jpg)

I'm very very glad they went with a new illustration. I was sick of seeing Jens Thoren's bloated mugshot.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 11, 2011, 07:59:53 AM
Question for you guys.

Is there a list anywhere of all the commander deck reprints that have different art? I.e. the FTK in the U/W/R deck?

I can't seem to find this info anywhere.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 14, 2011, 04:41:22 PM
So MaRo mentioned on his tumblr that Hexproof has replaced Shroud.

I can't help but feel a kneejerk aversion to this decision.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 14, 2011, 07:01:20 PM
You're far from alone there.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 14, 2011, 08:44:44 PM
After thinking about it a bit, I found a reason. I think Shroud has a lot more design space than Hexproof. Shroud is the kind of thing you can put on fragile creatures to give them a boost or offset odd abilities. It also makes more sense on non-creature permanents.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 15, 2011, 01:52:51 AM
I just like the tension Shroud provides.

On the other hands, Hexproof is always straight-up good. Which is boring as fuck.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on July 15, 2011, 08:41:31 AM
these days it's all about the newbs. Inexperienced players will get frustrated if their awesome "shroud" creature can't pick up their sweet equipment that they put in their deck specifically for that purpose or get pumped by that awesome spell.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 15, 2011, 09:10:02 AM
These days?

We've been headed that way for more than a half-decade I'd say. The game's shifted much more towards maximum short-term milking and far less on long-term retention.

In fairness, that simply follows the way the game trends naturally anyway (90% of players will play intensely for 2-4 years and then basically drop it.... which probably makes 90% of player smarter than me). Wizards merely chose to exploit natural trends rather than counteracting them (see also: How WotC completely gave up on trying to attract women at all).

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on July 15, 2011, 09:53:20 PM
casuals win again
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 18, 2011, 05:11:59 AM
Say, do any of you guys have Cheaty Jaces you're not longer going to use? I'd like to pick up some more.

If it matters, I have some Type stuff to trade (Time Vault, 2x Scrublands, Italian Mana Drain... maybe Mox Pearl in a larger deal).

Ideally I'd like to unload the Time Vault for a playset (values are almost dead even right now), but that's kind of a narrow trade. I'm totally open to paypal deals or whatever.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on July 18, 2011, 05:21:13 PM
Sorry, but my Cheaty Jaces are sort of reserved for EDH shenanigans.  I should post my decklist I'm running for Jenara, Asura of War.  I'm using Jenara because the place I used to play at had a ton of those Alara-block foil packs, and I opened her in shiny form.

I also have Kresh the Bloodbraided shiny.  I, however, don't have much Jund stuff to use...

...Or DO I?  >:3
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 18, 2011, 06:58:35 PM
You may want to look into getting an FTV: Legends box. Kresh was confirmed as one of the Legends appearing in it (lord knows why).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 18, 2011, 09:41:43 PM
(lord knows why).

Pretty well everybody asked that question. The answer is that it's Sheldon Menery's favourite general. :facepalm:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 19, 2011, 06:45:34 AM
Eeeeurgh, okay. I just checked the spoilers and it looks like at least 1/5 of the cards in FTV: Legends are from Alara. Aren't we going to get Legends from, you know, Legends?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 19, 2011, 07:59:38 AM
Make that four out of the fifteen cards.

This is shaping up to be more like From the Dollar Bin.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 19, 2011, 05:50:25 PM
Yeah, the fear is it'll be fourteen cards that won't break $5, plus Xiao-Du the One-Eyed.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 26, 2011, 11:05:55 AM
hay mcdohl (http://www.gatheringmagic.com/casualnation-43-%E2%80%93-random-commander-deck/)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 26, 2011, 12:05:47 PM
Ohhhhhh yeah, I was supposed to get him that Relentless Rats list.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on July 26, 2011, 03:59:04 PM
:D
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 29, 2011, 12:37:36 PM
Hey, RKF is having a sale. (http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryRoom.asp?GSub=118459)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 06, 2011, 09:47:41 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/rk2oZl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/rk2oZ)

The mountain is for sale. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280718211918&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT)

Also:

(http://i.imgur.com/PNdWel.jpg) (http://imgur.com/PNdWe)

(http://i.imgur.com/KQUO7l.jpg) (http://imgur.com/KQUO7)

(http://i.imgur.com/VEJw3l.jpg) (http://imgur.com/VEJw3)

I think these are actually made with a lithographic technique and not actually painting on the cards.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Lottel on August 06, 2011, 10:07:20 AM
I want that mountain. I want it. But I shouldn't buy it.
I can't buy anything until I get a job. But... dang. Daaaaang.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 06, 2011, 10:16:45 AM
Also, this:

(http://i.imgur.com/ppvPMl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/ppvPM)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 06, 2011, 11:10:57 AM
Oh my god, I can't be certain, but those cards may possibly be the work of the greatest MTG Troll anyone I know has ever heard of.

I must check into this.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 06, 2011, 11:39:02 AM
Yep. That's a 99% Confirmation that that is Random-Miser of 15+ year MTG infamy (and mild infamy outside of Magic, such as on Reddit).

Stealing art (mostly anime), printing it on cards, and selling them on ebay/forums has been one of his schticks for a few years now. Though he's had others. He's Time-cube levels of crazy. Probably his most notorious episode was how he spent years claiming that his rogue "Invincible Counter-Troll" type 1 deck (featuring Sedge Trolls as a win-con) had a win percentage of 113% against the field.

But R-M's done any number of ridiculous things, mostly involving lunatic sob stories or ripping people off with scams that sound like something you see in emails that are normally auto-blocked by anti-scammer filters.

I just find it funny that you happened to turn over that particular rock. No matter how many places he's banned from, like the cat in that Fred Penner song, he's always back the very next day.

EDIT: Make that 100% confirmation. Or maybe I should say 113%.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mothra on August 06, 2011, 01:04:29 PM
Lottel if you buy that fucking thing, that one card, just one card that you can't really even use, just because it has a video game screenshot on the back, for like 15 dollars, I swear to christ
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Lottel on August 06, 2011, 01:11:13 PM
Dude, I'm not a complete idiot. Just enough of one for the thought to cross my mind.
Really, you could put anything about Link's Awakening on anything and I'd want to buy it.
Got the Windfish on a Toaster? Want.
First dungeon painted on a rusty door panel? Want.
I have a sickness.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Beat Bandit on August 06, 2011, 01:58:40 PM
I would buy the fuck out of a windfish toaster.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mothra on August 06, 2011, 02:25:58 PM
I would buy a windfish toaster without a second's fucking hesitation
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 09, 2011, 07:12:53 PM
Cross-posted (http://brontoforum.us/index.php?topic=784.msg199194#msg199194)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 10, 2011, 10:35:10 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/Magic-MTG-Hand-Drawn-Anime-Altered-Art-BIRTHING-POD-/130556334369?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e65c39121#ht_500wt_1322 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Magic-MTG-Hand-Drawn-Anime-Altered-Art-BIRTHING-POD-/130556334369?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e65c39121#ht_500wt_1322)

 :mikey:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on August 10, 2011, 11:46:09 AM
It has 18 bids.

18.

IT'S NOT EVEN LIKE THE ART IS ANY GOOD.

WHY.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Bal on August 10, 2011, 11:51:47 AM
Winning bid just shy of $60
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on August 10, 2011, 11:56:05 AM
Turns out there is an exact image for how I feel.

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/newsfeed/000/071/536/haha_o_h_why.jpg?1284354039)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 10, 2011, 07:07:52 PM
That image is actually a perfect description of my reaction... to that image.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 11, 2011, 08:55:20 AM
http://www.gatheringmagic.com/wizards-reveals-entire-ftv-legends/ (http://www.gatheringmagic.com/wizards-reveals-entire-ftv-legends/)

Pretty goddamn shallow vault.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 11, 2011, 09:27:15 AM
Yeah, we're talking about that on the Magic site. It's basically a pile of ass. Sun Quan is worth $30 (for now), nobody plays Cao Cao in anything (no Xiao Dun The One-Eyed makes EDH players saaaaaaaaaaaaaaad). 

I mean, it's probably worth more than the $30 retail, but FTVs never go for retail. And it sure as hell ain't worth the $70 FTVs usually wind up going for.

In Wizards defence, I actually looked up all the Legends they could have added, and it's not really that impressive outside of better P3K dudes. Most of the actual GOOD legends are either on the reserved list, have been done as promos before, have been recently reprinted in an easy-to-get boxed set (like archenemy decks, or a duel deck), or are really new.

This was the list of missed opportunities I came up with:

Quote
- Karakas (not a creature, but it's probably THE most impressive non-Creature Legend, and it's interactions are with Legends) fair game for reprinting, since it's an uncommon
- Xiao Dun
- Lu Xun
- Other good P3K dorks
- One of the Invasion Dragons that hasn't had a promo yet (Crosis, Darigaaz, or Dromar)
- Hanna
- Llawan, Cephalid Empress
- Azusa, Lost but Seeking
- Godo
- Ghost Dad
- Iona
- Jhoira of the Ghitu

With some so-so borderline cases like other Rav-block Legends, or Memnarch.

Not really a lot there.

I suspect that the idea for this FTV set was conceived before they were forced to close the Reserved List foil-reprint loophole. The idea of an FTV Legends boxed set seems like it would have been a great way to showcase a new flaunting of the Reserved List, but this version seems a lot more like a sort of make-do fallback plan.

But man, Xiao Dun woulda made this set easy.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 11, 2011, 10:11:32 AM
Also, I have to disagree with Visara, given the new illustration.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 11, 2011, 11:09:58 AM
GORGON BOOBS

Also:

Oh man, I just realized.

(http://i.imgur.com/K1LO7.jpg)

Whitey On the Moon v1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5smPcN8AoE#)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 11, 2011, 04:21:50 PM
Eh.  I'll probably end up picking it up somehow.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 11, 2011, 09:03:55 PM
Okay, more news.

Anybody been following along regarding the Modern format? For those of you who haven't here's a brief summary:

- Last year, after several years of build up, Legacy was exploding in popularity
- Wizards started flirting with repealing the reserved list
- In an epic clusterfuck, Wizards Legal shut everything related to the reserved list down, basically out of panic (there's more to it than that, but I think most of you already know about this anyway)
- Wizards had been pushing Legacy hard and were now caught with their pants down
- Wizards also killed off Extended, since no one had been playing it for years (it technically still exists, but it's just standard plus two years. And still no one plays it).
- Wizards came up with Modern as the format to cure these problems. Modern is basically an Eternal format like Legacy, but only includes cards in the new frame (Mirrodin-onward)
- They road-tested Modern at a special event about two months ago and it was well-received.
- It had a moderate banned list with some obvious stuff, like artifact lands and Skullclamp, plus a few format specific ones like Top (slows down play too much) or Golgari Grave Troll (an attempt to de-power Dredge decks without killing them outright).

SO. Today Wizards officially announced Modern as a real sanctioned format. (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ld/155)

BUT. Get a load of this crazy ban-list. It's nuts:

Quote
The final banned list is as follows:

    Ancestral Vision
    Ancient Den
    Bitterblossom
    Chrome Mox
    Dark Depths
    Dread Return
    Glimpse of Nature
    Golgari Grave-Troll
    Great Furnace
    Hypergenesis
    Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    Mental Misstep
    Seat of the Synod
    Sensei's Divining Top
    Skullclamp
    Stoneforge Mystic
    Sword of the Meek
    Tree of Tales
    Umezawa's Jitte
    Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
    Vault of Whispers

They literally firebombed half the possible decks in the format in one fell swoop. With no real warning.

On the plus side, Jaces will now be much cheaper! 
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 11, 2011, 09:09:45 PM
Oh and it gets better.

PT Philly was surprise format-switched to Modern too.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 12, 2011, 02:55:17 AM
I for one welcome our new-bordered overlords, and it has convinced me to dust off my Pridemates and Soul Sisters to remake the deck!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: on August 12, 2011, 03:22:32 AM
- In an epic clusterfuck, Wizards Legal shut everything related to the reserved list down, basically out of panic (there's more to it than that, but I think most of you already know about this anyway)

I don't!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 12, 2011, 06:31:34 AM
- In an epic clusterfuck, Wizards Legal shut everything related to the reserved list down, basically out of panic (there's more to it than that, but I think most of you already know about this anyway)

I don't!

It's the reason why From The Vault: Legends is a comparatively poor product. All the decent Legends are on the reserved list.

They literally firebombed half the possible decks in the format in one fell swoop. With no real warning.

Probably so people don't just dig out their killer decks from three, five and seven years ago and turn it into the "Faeries vs. Dredge vs. Affinity" Format.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 12, 2011, 07:23:27 AM
I for one welcome our new-bordered overlords, and it has convinced me to dust off my Pridemates and Soul Sisters to remake the deck!

Yeah, with this list, Zoo is gonna be HUGE, like Goblins was for the first few years of Legacy.

- In an epic clusterfuck, Wizards Legal shut everything related to the reserved list down, basically out of panic (there's more to it than that, but I think most of you already know about this anyway)

I don't!

Okay.... deep breath!

There's this thing called the reserved list. It's a promise Wizards made like fifteen years ago not to reprint certain cards, so that collectors would be happy. There's no written contract or anything, just a promise that it's a policy. It states that no rare cards released prior to Masques block will ever be reprinted. It used to be all cards in those sets, but a couple of years after they announced the policy they said it would not apply to commons/uncommons (amusingly, this means that cards like Karakas, Mana Drain, Force of Will and Wastelands are all technically possible reprints). It was a stupid, shortsighted policy, but Wizards decided to honour it as a very longstanding promise.

Flash forward to the last two years. Legacy has been steadily growing in popularity. It's a very balanced and healthy format with a huge number of viable decks and is much cheaper to get into than Type 1. Since the format was becoming more and more popular, prices rose on the secondary market (ebay, stores, trades, etc.), in some cases going through wild spurts where cards forever rose in price. As a result the format is quickly becoming as expensive as Type 1 (as of this writing, Blue dual lands are now about $100, non blue duals from $70-$40, Force of Wills are $70, Wastelands are $50 and many other staples are much more expensive than they were 2-3 years ago). At this point, the increased cost is a strain, but has not really hobbled growth in the format.

Last year, it became clear that Wizards really wanted to push Legacy as their preferred "Eternal" format. It had seen some of the largest tournaments in Magic's history, several times over (unprecedented 2000+ players) and other than the rising prices of the cards involved, people really liked the format.

Meanwhile, for years, Wizards had been quietly (but openly) flouting the Reserved list, using something called the Foil Loophole. The Foil Loophole was based on the way the Reserved list was worded. It specifically referred to non-premium cards that were not for sale (or words to that effect). What it meant was that Wizards could reprint cards from the list, so long as they were premium (i.e. Foil) and were not sold in any retail product. So over the years, any number of reserved list cards had been done as Judge Promos (the special foil cards Judges get as part of their compensation which are not available elsewhere). Judge promos are only released in small quantities, so they never lowered the prices on non-foil originals.

Wizards was chafing though. They knew there was a huge market for reprints, especially for original dual lands (THE crucial limiting factor on participation in Legacy, though staples like Force of Will were important too). Players and Retailers were chafing too. Most players - even many with significant investment in older cards - really wanted to see reprints to open up older formats and to bring costs down for people who were trying to play those older formats. Retailers also saw a potential bonanza, just like Wizards did. In theory the Reserved list was there to protect retailers' investments in expensive cards for resale, but in practice almost all retailers had very little exposure to value loss on old cards and make almost all their money on new releases and the release of a new product with reprints of Legacy staple cards in it had huge potential as a moneymaker. 

It's important to note that Wizards also has something jokingly referred to as a "shadow" reserved list, which even includes recent cards. It's basically the real list of cards that Wizards will never reprint, because of severe power level issues (power 9, Tarmogoyf, Time Vault, etc.), massive rules headaches (Falling Star, Shaharazad, Chaos Orb etc.), price (yes price does affect decision to reprint cards, don't ever let them say it doesn't), or some combination of those factors. What this means is that even if the Reserved list were torn up tomorrow, it wouldn't mean open season on reprints because Wizards is not actually retarded (well, not when it comes to this kind of stuff anyway). For instance, you would never see reprints of the Power 9 for about a dozen very good reasons, with or without the Reserved list.

Anyway, in a short period of time last summer, a number of things happened that made it look like Wizards was about to repeal the Reserved list, or at least selectively reprint some key cards from it. They included cards from the Reserved list in a Duel Deck (Phyrexia vs. the Coalition) a product for general sale, a whole slew of Judge promos of Reserved cards were scheduled to come out, Wizards made several statements that very much indicated that they wanted to take Legacy to the next level and push it even harder, and they had a conference with all the major Magic retailers (Star City Games, Troll & Toad, etc.).

The conference was very, very interesting, because basically it was Wizards' attempt to show in a very public way that the people the Reserved list was supposed to "protect" (retailers), were actually against it. The retailers came out of the meeting and publicly announced that they had unanimously told Wizards that they were okay with the Reserved list being repealed. They didn't actually demand the Reserved list be abolished, nor did WotC state outright they were doing it, but they both did say that "we would be 100% happy with it being gone.".

Wizards had effectively obtained public permission with the retailers of the world to tear up the reserved list. At this point it seemed there was no gettin' offa the train Wizards was on. No official announcement had been made yet, but just about every sign in the world pointed to the hated Reserved list getting the chop. Everything was in place and the only thing left was to announce it and start printing money.

Then something truly weird happened.

Someone at Wizards brought the situation to the Legal department's attention. Maybe it was standard for any large policy change, maybe they felt it warranted a special look, but either way Legal got wind of it.

All of a sudden everything went right out the window. With no warning at all, Wizards abruptly announced that the Reserved list was here to stay forever. Not only that, they announced they were closing the foil loophole as well. They also pre-announced exactly all instances of Reserved list cards being printed in special boxed sets that year, since these had already been printed and could not reasonably be stopped (in addition to the Judge promos and the Duel Deck, several were set for release in last year's From the Vault boxed set).

Then it got weirder. Wizards absolutely refused to talk about the decision with anyone, and still do to this very day. Wizards employees refuse to comment and will specifically say that they are not allowed to comment on such things under any circumstances. We only even know that it was Legal that shut things down because of incredibly oblique hints and the fact that that's pretty much the only sensible explanation that comes anywhere close to fitting.

The guess is that some well-heeled player with a large collection of old cards would sue for some fantastic amount, positing the Reserved list as a contract and sue Wizards for the lost value of his cards for breach of contract. Not that any player actually came anywhere close to actually threatening this. This is a purely theoretical threat.

The really dumb thing is that there's a strong suspicion that Legal simply panicked. More than one qualified practicing lawyer with at least some legit experience in Contract Law and knowledge of MTG have said that any liability case against WotC for lost value would be incredibly weak and almost certain to be thrown out. Granted these were younger guys, mostly recent grads who are current players or recent former players. But they seemed decently well informed.

The Reserved list couldn't be treated as a conventional contract, not even a verbal one, because the list even had specific statements that indicated it was not a legally-binding agreement. There was an obscure but very specific type of contract law that was invoked as the only possible way that Wizards could be seen as having legal obligations to honour the Reserved list (I don't recall the exact name). It was a very outside possibility, but was the only theory any folks with knowledge of the Law could come up with. To say nothing of the fact that arguing that a drop in the value of collectible game card values on the secondary market equated with real cash losses would have been incredibly difficult (though not impossible) for any potential plaintiff.

Either there's the potential for some epic legal catastrophe that we've all missed, or Wizards is simply being incredibly overcautious.

But the upshot of the whole thing was that the collective Magic-playing folks of the world were collectively blueballed, with no explanation, after two years of ever-intensifying foreplay.

Now not only are we all stuck with the Reserved list, which basically nobody wants now (other than a few "YOU GOTTA PAY TO PLAY! FUCK YOU, I GOT MINE!" folks), but Wizards employees now regularly go through this incrrrrrredibly-awkward-but-completely-hilarious dance where they completely and deliberately avoid talking about or referring to secondary market prices in any way (even though those things DO affect decisions on cards).

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 12, 2011, 07:28:35 AM
For a hilarious example of the "I CAN'T TALK ABOUT THAT, DAVE" dances Wizards employees now go through, check this out.

The other day, MaRo had a Q&A session on Twitter where he let folks ask him about the cards that were in FTV: Legends.

(read bottom to top)

(http://i.imgur.com/0KDkF.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/N3AhY.png)

"Ask me about why cards were chosen to go in FTV:L!"
"But please note that I can't talk about some things! (rule #4 here)"
"Hmmm, the number one question is why was there no Xiao Dun"
"Please see #4!"

:whoops:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on August 12, 2011, 02:05:33 PM
"can't comment on X" usually means "will be used on a forthcoming product"

So it's possible they're working on a FTV: Portal.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 12, 2011, 09:03:50 PM
Nope. They can't comment on it because the reason Xiao Dun wasn't included is that he's a $150 card.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 13, 2011, 05:12:03 AM
So it's possible they're working on a FTV: Portal.

I'd rather see FTV: Invitational.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 13, 2011, 07:06:15 AM
I don't think there'd be much money in that. Though Dark Confidant (aka "Where's that finger been?") is now a $35 card.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 13, 2011, 07:41:14 AM
Too bad Starr's not a judge anymore or you'd have one with the old frame.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 13, 2011, 08:27:04 AM
Those are going for $100!

But I don't really want one. I love old frames, but they don't make me care about promos. The only things that really catch my attention are new art or new flavour text.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 15, 2011, 09:25:21 AM
Quote from: Mark Rosewater
The most common reason people quit Magic is that they become disconnected from the social circle they play with (they move, others move, big life events happen, etc.). The biggest thing we've done to get them back is to create ways to play that allow them to play given their life's current setup. The biggest examples of this would be Magic Online and Duels of the Planeswalkers.

Yeah, it couldn't be money.

Dark Confidant is now a $35 card.

OH WAIT
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on August 15, 2011, 10:57:06 AM
I stopped playing because my friends moved away. I stopped buying cards because money (for a short while, I bought cards anyway because I'm going to college and should find someone somewhere who wants to play one of the greatest games ever made, or I could just sell the rares I get).

I probably don't represent the main demographic, though.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: on August 15, 2011, 12:46:05 PM
I have just one binder of magic cards left. It has my foils, and my unglued/unhinged set in it. These were the only cards I felt worth keeping when I felt the game just wasn't fun anymore and gave all 4000 cards to my brother.

A year or so later, with my blessing, he sold them to cover bills and rent. He said "The game just doesn't seem fun anymore." "I know the feeling."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Bongo Bill on August 15, 2011, 01:03:19 PM
I quit because the only people I actually wanted to play with were also my D&D group, and we knew which Wizards of the Coast product we enjoyed more in practice.

Also because they were more willing to actually buy cards than I was.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Beat Bandit on August 15, 2011, 01:51:53 PM
I quit when I decided to start doing tournis, and realized after spending two hundred bucks on my deck I was spending $20+ just to play for a night and that I would have to do that a few times a year.

Still kept my casual deck with no real kill con around though for when I see friends.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 15, 2011, 05:10:49 PM
I haven't given up the game but I have scaled back my purchasing to mainly singles for EDH. Sometimes I'll splurge of a fat pack, but that'll be it for months at a time.

I no longer find Standard appealing. The buy-in for any competitive deck is just too high, and the turnover means that you have to keep buying. I tried draft and I found that I'm really not that good at it. And the place I usually go to play does rare re-draft based on performance. So unless you're really, really good at draft, you're going to be left with junk rares. Which I often am.

Heck, I'm probably not even going to be able to buy too much for EDH anymore, now that Modern's here. The price of shocklands have doubled.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 15, 2011, 06:13:42 PM
Yeah, shocklands kicking up in price really pisses me off, because I'd like to have some for my EDH decks.  I only have one shock land, and it's the Red/White one, but it's not in the Jor Kadeen deck I just played.  I should move it from the Mayael deck to it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 15, 2011, 07:10:27 PM
For what it's worth, I fully expect the Shocklands to be reprinted. I was betting a few weeks ago that they'd be reprinted within the next 3-5years, but with Modern now a confirmed real format and shocklands prices skyrocketing I updated that. I'll just repost my reasoning from elsewhere:

Quote from: Mongrel
So, imma make a prediction.

Previously I have said that I suspect the Ravduals would be reprinted in the next five years, tops.

I now think they will actually be in next year's core set. Maybe not all of them in one go - they may do ally colours in M13 and Enemy colours in M14 or something to that effect.

My reasoning is:

- The price on the original is skyrocketing. This runs counter to what they want for the format and statements made in the modern era about accessibility of mana bases. Sure, that's a reprint in response to prices, but anybody who's paying attention knows WotC actually DOES take secondary market prices into some consideration. Not for every card, but often enough that I think it applies here.
- Next year we'll be returning to Ravnica, and it's a good bet we'll need solid multicolour support
- Tweaks Ravnica nostalgia just prior to the set coming out.
- Actually reprinting the lands in Ravnica itself would be pretty lame. That would be the first time they'd ever done such a boring retread. Straight reprints of a ten (or five) card cycle in a regular set is very rare and usually avoided. But in a core set it's absolutely fair game.
- Similarly, they're not going to reprint a ten card cycle in two-colour cards on the exact same 4/3/3 cycle. That would be be pretty lame. So again the option to print 5 (or more) in one go falls to a core set, which is better-positioned for that sort of thing.

The shocklands are very core-set friendly and it'd be really nice to see new setting-neutral art for them. I guess I could maybe see them being reprinted in Ravnica again on the 4/3/3 pattern, only in a totally different order, but that really would be a bit of a creative disappointment.

Also: There is something WRONG with some people (http://cgi.ebay.com/Magic-MTG-Ravnica-MINT-DARK-CONFIDANT-FOIL-RUSSIAN-/280719469436?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415c2f2b7c#ht_500wt_1202). I mean no fewer than FOUR people thought this thing was worth more than $500. Granted, eyerolling at the amount of money some people are willing to pay for MTG cards is extremely old hat, but a one thousand dollar "pimp value" premium on a thirty dollar card has got to be some kind of new low.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 15, 2011, 08:37:28 PM
Cripes, I can't tell which is worse. Paying $1000 for a foil Bob or $60 for a pregnant nudie altered Birthing Pod. They both carry their own flavour of shame.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 20, 2011, 10:39:48 AM
Here's my Radha deck! It's fairly stable and has lots of answers, but I could still use some suggestions.

General
Radha, Heir to Keld (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=128949)

Chain of Command
Akroma, Angel of Fury (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247358)
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=124344)
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=220490)
Livonya Silone (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=201267)
Urabrask the Hidden (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=214378)
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=197145)
Ashling the Pilgrim (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=141822)
Omnath, Locus of Mana (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=197759)

Troops
Nacatl War-Pride (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=130588)
Flameblast Dragon (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=177476)
Hellkite Charger (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=220468)
Boldwyr Intimidator (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=152974)
Woodfall Primus (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=151987)

Logistics
Sakura-Tribe Elder (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247176)
Eternal Witness (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247148)
Yavimaya Elder (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247524)
Forgotten Ancient (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=220583)
Garruk's Packleader (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205060)
Spellbreaker Behemoth (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=179551)
Fertilid (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247335)

Beasts of Burden
Flametongue Kavu (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=26262)
Mold Shambler (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=183414)
Vigor (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=140227)
Acidic Slime (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=226906)
Silklash Spider (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=39687)
Pelakka Wurm (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=193621)
Terastodon (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=197137)

Weapons
Skullclamp (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247201)
Bladed Pinions (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=206354)
Lightning Greaves (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247337)
Argentum Armor (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=217967)

Enchantments
Sylvan Library (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=159317)
Awakening Zone (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247393)
Fires of Yavimaya (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=23180)
Bear Umbra (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=198304)
Asceticism (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=215082)
Rage Reflection (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=146727)

Allies
Garruk Wildspeaker (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=201347)

The X Makes it Sound Cool
Demonfire (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=189229)
Red Sun's Zenith (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=221558)
Banefire (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=186613)
Savage Twister (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=3551)
Fanning the Flames (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=5148)
Comet Storm (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=197766)
Strength of the Tajuru (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=197875)
Chord of Calling (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=89064)

Smashing Stuff
Gleeful Sabotage (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=220585)
Creeping Mold (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=129512)
Wreak Havoc (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=107693)

Burning Stuff
Hammer of Bogardan (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=3452)
Urza's Rage (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=207886)

Ramp and Utility
Rampant Growth (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=233231)
Firewild Borderpost (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=188974)
Kodama's each (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=50299)
Regrowth (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=1263)
Explore (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=201578)
Cultivate (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=204996)
Primal Command (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=141824)
Evolution Charm (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=124047)
Gruul Signet (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247277)

Turf
Mountain x12
Forest x9
Vivid Crag (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247306)
Vivid Grove (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247308)
Highland Weald (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=121259)
Karplusan Forest (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=129614)
Copperline Gorge (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=209408)
Stomping Ground (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=96896)
Fungal Reaches (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=108796)
Rootbound Crag (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=221922)
Kazandu Refuge (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=189635)
Raging Ravine (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=177583)
Grove of the Burnwillows (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=130595)
Shivan Oasis (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=45494)
Mosswort Bridge (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=139515)
Kher Keep (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=113553)
Skarrg, the Rage Pits (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=96970)
Winding Canyons (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=4595)
Evolving Wilds (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247396)
Tectonic Edge (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=197855)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 20, 2011, 03:19:05 PM
I may be able to take a longer look later, but a few ideas that struck me right away.

It might be a little early to tell you to pick one up, but the new Garruk (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/m12/174.jpg) is probably the best general-purpose EDH 'walker ever.

I would swap the Gleeful Sabotage with a Naturalize (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/m12/185.jpg) (instant is way more important than the -1 mana you might save from conspire).

Get a Hull Breach (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/cmd/203.jpg) (I have extras, I can probably just give you one), maybe also an Artifact Mutation (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/in/231.jpg).

Beast Within (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/nph/103.jpg) is a winner. And Desert Twister (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/mm/243.jpg) is actually playable in this format, though that's up to you.

Starstorm (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/on/238.jpg) may be an X spell winner.

Insurrection (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/cmd/126.jpg) or Grab the Reins (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/mi/95.jpg) can be funny alternatives to X board sweepers.

Comedy value: Conquer (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ia/180.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mothra on August 20, 2011, 03:24:15 PM
What the hell do you even do with a $60 for a pregnant nudie altered Birthing Pod? You can't really play it, right? I mean with whom and when could you comfortably play such a thing? Even if you knew the other person was into pregnant nude anime chicks birthing that would still be the same as like playing a Magic card of some chick suckin' down on a D. Do you just keep it in your wallet for Emergency Jacks (like waiting in line at Starbucks or driving)?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 20, 2011, 03:29:17 PM
I was at a large tourney (Canadian Nationals) today, so I'm afraid I probably saw a couple dozen "people" who would buy that kind of thing. 

Some skeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetchy folks playin' the Magical cards.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 20, 2011, 06:38:25 PM
Your buddy with the Touhou alters was pretty cool.

Oh! I have a rules question. If I put an Adaptive Automaton into play and name "Ally" does that make him trigger any Ally ETB effect, e.g. Halimar Excavator?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 20, 2011, 07:06:10 PM
Yeah, it should. His text says "as he comes into play" rather than "when he comes into play".

Well really it says battlefield blah blah blah, but you get the idea.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 22, 2011, 08:10:37 PM
I'd rather play my Bant EDH with Jenara as the general, and Xenograph Allies + Exalted. :3
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 22, 2011, 08:13:53 PM
Oh.  Another thing I want to start working on is a Riku of Two Reflections deck, focusing on Allies of those colors.  Sure, I don't get any of the awesome white allies like Talus Paladin or Kazandu Blademaster, but Kazuul Warlord is pretty cool, and if I start twincasting allies, he makes things stupid.  Hey!  I could make metric fucktons of Kazuul Warlords dropping a warlord, twincasting him with Riku, then dropping a Jwari Shapeshifter, copying Kazuul, then throw down a Clone, copying Kazuul, and a Phyrexian Metamorph!  It's like a pile of +1/+1 stupidity!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on August 23, 2011, 06:47:27 AM
Commander:
1 Sliver Legion

1 Sliversmith
1 Acidic Sliver
1 Basal Sliver
1 Blade Sliver
1 Bonesplitter Sliver
1 Brood Sliver
1 Cautery Sliver
1 Clot Sliver
1 Crypt Sliver
1 Crystalline Sliver
1 Darkheart Sliver
1 Essence Sliver
1 Firewake Sliver
1 Frenetic Sliver
1 Frenzy Sliver
1 Fungus Sliver
1 Fury Sliver
1 Gemhide Sliver
1 Ghostflame Sliver
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Heart Sliver
1 Homing Sliver
1 Horned Sliver
1 Hunter Sliver
1 Lymph Sliver
1 Magma Sliver
1 Mesmeric Sliver
1 Metallic Sliver
1 Might Sliver
1 Mnemonic Sliver
1 Muscle Sliver
1 Necrotic Sliver
1 Opaline Sliver
1 Plated Sliver
1 Poultice Sliver
1 Psionic Sliver
1 Pulmonic Sliver
1 Quick Sliver
1 Quilled Sliver
1 Reflex Sliver
1 Root Sliver
1 Screeching Sliver
1 Sedge Sliver
1 Shadow Sliver
1 Shifting Sliver
1 Sidewinder Sliver
1 Sinew Sliver
1 Spined Sliver
1 Spinneret Sliver
1 Spitting Sliver
1 Synapse Sliver
1 Synchronous Sliver
1 Talon Sliver
1 Telekinetic Sliver
1 Toxin Sliver
1 Two-Headed Sliver
1 Vampiric Sliver
1 Venser's Sliver
1 Virulent Sliver
1 Ward Sliver
1 Watcher Sliver
1 Winged Sliver
1 Sliver Overlord
1 Sliver Queen

1 Vivid Crag
1 Vivid Creek
1 Vivid Grove
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Ancient Ziggurat
1 Command Tower
1 Pillar of the Paruns
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground River
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Karplusan Forest
1 Adarkar Wastes
1 Rhystic Cave
1 Crumbling Necropolis
1 Arcane Sanctum
1 Jungle Shrine
1 Seaside Citadel
1 Savage Lands

1 Mana Cylix
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Springleaf Drum
1 Manalith
1 Sol Ring
1 Mutavault
1 Door of Destinies
1 Belbe's Portal
1 Urza's Incubator

1 Coordinated Barrage
1 Roar of the Crowd
1 Shared Animosity
1 Luminescent Rain
1 Pack's Disdain
1 Patriarch's Bidding
1 Faces of the Past
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 23, 2011, 03:36:25 PM
Wouldn't Sliver Overlord be a better general than Sliver Legion?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 23, 2011, 04:19:48 PM
Wouldn't Sliver Overlord be a better general than Sliver Legion?

UP YOURS!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 23, 2011, 04:21:19 PM
Sorry Mongrel. I still have bad memories about that douchebag with the $1000 sliver deck.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 23, 2011, 04:32:10 PM
I, uh, have a sliver deck that's probably worth that much. >__>

That's mainly because of how much blue dual lands cost now though.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on August 23, 2011, 04:49:19 PM
Possibly, yes. It's the difference between having just the right sliver for the job and not caring if you have the wrong sliver because they're all 25/25.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 23, 2011, 05:07:46 PM
Well, the idea is that you can use the Overlord to go and get the Legion, but not vice versa.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on August 23, 2011, 05:32:43 PM
I actually bought the foil sliver deck, I still want a foil Sliver Queen though.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 23, 2011, 08:48:10 PM
I, uh, have a sliver deck that's probably worth that much. >__>

That's mainly because of how much blue dual lands cost now though.

Yeah, I think I told you about it when I visited. It had every dual land and every fetchland. It wasn't so much playing Magic: The Gathering as it was "How fast can I tutor up a win condition?"

My only mistake was playing him on-on-one.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 24, 2011, 03:19:42 AM
You mean, he had an EDH sliver deck like that, right?

'Cos mine's just a legacy deck. Everything in Legacy has dual lands and fetchlands. Of course, if you were going to play against one of my Legacy decks, I'd, you know, give you another Legacy deck to play.

As opposed to the "make my friend play his casual deck and laugh as you crush him" strategy.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 24, 2011, 07:41:06 AM
You mean, he had an EDH sliver deck like that, right?

'Cos mine's just a legacy deck. Everything in Legacy has dual lands and fetchlands. Of course, if you were going to play against one of my Legacy decks, I'd, you know, give you another Legacy deck to play.

As opposed to the "make my friend play his casual deck and laugh as you crush him" strategy.

It was an EDH deck, but I think it pretty much followed that strategy to the letter.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 24, 2011, 03:16:39 PM
This is a real thing:

(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122924&d=1314179208)

 :scanners:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 24, 2011, 03:25:43 PM
So...wait.  What's the crescent/full moon stuff about?  Are we just going to make up even more nonsense?  Are my decks going to work better when the moon is in ascendance? 

This is stupid.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 24, 2011, 03:49:44 PM
Oh man, I never really commented on this, but I got some amazing use out of that Lu Bu I bought for 15 bucks.  I was jacking Buge's face up with him!  :D

This is where shit got real. (http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showthread.php?t=11967&page=10)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 24, 2011, 03:57:48 PM
The sun/moon is supposed to be some kind of day/night mechanic.

You don't understand how crazy that thing is. Both of those cards have the same collector number, only one's the 'a' version, and the other's the 'b' version.

It's possible that this set will have two-sided cards (probably not... it'll probably be some awkward tutoring or token system?). AND the crazy day/night mechanic. No idea what it'll trigger off of, but I assume that in addition to transforming, there will be cards that get stronger in day and weaker at night and vice-versa.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on August 25, 2011, 03:54:55 AM
The simplest way to do this would be:
- Both cards are always acquired together
- You put one of the cards in your deck, and the other on you. Exchange both when you need the warsil to transform
- Every booster will have one of these, so the card count adds up
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on August 25, 2011, 04:20:10 AM
What you mean Magics making cards that turn into other cards? This is totally new! Wait a minute. It's just another gimmick we have seen before. Like the flip card's and level up feature.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f216/Ninjabredman01/nezumi_shortfang.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 25, 2011, 06:27:31 PM
So, Karona, False God +Allies EDH. Can it be done on a budget? I say yes. I already have some allies, as well as some shapeshifters and changelings (incidentally, does anyone have any Allies taking up space in trade binders or boxes they want to donate? :3 ). There's probably some allies I want to avoid (Bojuka Brigand, I'm looking at you).

Now there's a few ways to take a deck like this. I could go +1/+1 counter heavy and include one (or more) of the +1/+1 counter dudes from Morningtide. I could include some bounce for extra 187 shenanigans. Door of Destinies for sure, but Coat of Arms would be tricky.  Savage Beating/Relentless Assault to boost the Karona bonus...

I think the big issue would be the mana base (as always). Vivids are a given... Maybe painlands, some of the junkier fetchlands or karoos... Any utility land suggestions? Or suggestions in general?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 26, 2011, 07:09:12 PM
Was playing EDH tonight.

Got the absurd super nut-draw with my Jenara deck.

Turn 1: Forest, Birds of Paradise.
Turn 2: Island, Jenara
Turn 3: Plains, Rafiq of the Many, swing w/ Jenara for 8.

It got stupid after that.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 27, 2011, 01:13:42 PM
Wizards confirms it straight out: If a card gets too popular in Modern, it will be reprinted. (http://twitter.com/#!/Cloudscraper/status/107546568185491456)

Tarmogoyf, Shocklands, Bob (confidant): I'm lookin' at you.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Bongo Bill on August 27, 2011, 01:17:29 PM
I don't even play this game, so why do I keep coming up with mediocre fake cards?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 27, 2011, 05:30:01 PM
And why don't you ever show them to us?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 27, 2011, 07:46:55 PM
In fifteen minutes, Mark Rosewater is going to explain why the hell they're printing double-sided cards.

At least, he better.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 27, 2011, 08:12:59 PM
Wait... has someone actually said they ARE double-sided cards?

Because I'm pretty sure most folks think a theory similar to Zara's is right (token that always comes in the same pack as the main card or somesuch).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 27, 2011, 08:23:13 PM
HAHA, OH!

We ARE getting double-sided cards. WWWWWTTTTTTTTFFFFFFFF.

See here (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/157b)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 27, 2011, 09:43:30 PM
Wow.  No Deckmaster backs.

I don't know how I feel about this.

(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/isd/g4cc1x3ges_en.jpg)

Hey.  One of those things on the check list is "Garruk Relentless"

...Could it be that there's a Garruk 3.0 on the horizon, that transforms to/from planeswalker status?  CRAZY SHIT.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 27, 2011, 10:08:41 PM
Apparently, he's the 5-ability walker.

One side will be a green walker, the other a black one. Each side will have an identical ability that reads "0: Transform", plus two abilities unique to that side.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on August 28, 2011, 04:16:26 AM
I... think I liked my idea best.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 28, 2011, 05:25:45 AM
It's a neat gimmick that I think isn't quite worth the cost in gameplay and awkwardness, but I think we'll be fine.

But man, there is a LOT of rage out there that "WOTC JUST RUINED DRAFT!!!!!1"
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 28, 2011, 05:44:32 AM
I look forward to this block being as well-received as Time Spiral.

That is to say, people who have been with the game for a while will enjoy it, while a larger demographic of noobs will scratch their heads and walk away.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Bongo Bill on August 28, 2011, 06:57:51 AM
And why don't you ever show them to us?
Well, here goes. First off, a cycle of multiplayer-friendly color fixers. Clearly inefficient for your own purposes, because if you can afford them you probably don't need them.
(http://i.imgur.com/PaCwO.png) (http://i.imgur.com/n5CHo.png) (http://i.imgur.com/S7WzY.png) (http://i.imgur.com/czzib.png) (http://i.imgur.com/17fSL.png)

Along those lines, (http://i.imgur.com/IHJBK.png)

Enterprising persons could probably find a use for these:
(http://i.imgur.com/tsivJ.png) (http://i.imgur.com/Keo7Y.png) (http://i.imgur.com/Cf0uv.png) (http://i.imgur.com/qi2cQ.png)

These are rather half-baked:
(http://i.imgur.com/V2yoA.png) (http://i.imgur.com/JcDsm.png) (http://i.imgur.com/qFL4G.png) (http://i.imgur.com/QZ94y.png) (http://i.imgur.com/YDwX6.png) (http://i.imgur.com/fgd1a.png) (http://i.imgur.com/zCZWK.png)

These ones have fairly simple ideas that I could not find a way to express concisely:
(http://i.imgur.com/2wnHf.png) (http://i.imgur.com/uWMVY.png)

A bit of silver-bordered levity, though not very fun:
(http://i.imgur.com/y0fh4.png) (http://i.imgur.com/lNTFV.png)

Miscellany:
(http://i.imgur.com/kIm6F.png) (http://i.imgur.com/iYaGx.png) (http://i.imgur.com/iSrXy.png) (http://i.imgur.com/SmJAw.png) (http://i.imgur.com/KOhM6.png)

I like walls for some reason, and was trying to think of a way to make them more interesting. A few of my brainstorms:
(http://i.imgur.com/yFNsn.png) (http://i.imgur.com/4GLEo.png) (http://i.imgur.com/4SFpv.png) (http://i.imgur.com/Iad1a.png) (http://i.imgur.com/xEm3I.png) (http://i.imgur.com/oJJd6.png)

A few things intended to shake a game up, which means their effects are likely too big:
(http://i.imgur.com/gnhQF.png) (http://i.imgur.com/M4asP.png) (http://i.imgur.com/SoSBc.png) (http://i.imgur.com/dot1q.png)

Plus: Beebles! Everybody likes Beebles, right?
(http://i.imgur.com/J5pm9.png) (http://i.imgur.com/zOGfT.png) (http://i.imgur.com/neLfh.png) (http://i.imgur.com/ZRFI4.png) (http://i.imgur.com/SKmOW.png)

And just think: these are the less completely awful/stupid ones!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 28, 2011, 07:10:47 AM
To Supreme Commander Wossname, I say this:

SHIVAN METEOR.

(http://magiccards.info/scans/en/pc/106.jpg)

All in all, though, Bongo, you realize that some of the gross cards you've made are pretty bad, and instantly, you have a leg up on anyone going "Hurp Derp going to New Card Designer contest 3"
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Bongo Bill on August 28, 2011, 07:13:26 AM
Hell, I only posted 'em 'cause Büge asked.

Although for that particular guy, copying the spell is optional.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 28, 2011, 09:04:38 AM
(http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg576/scaled.php?tn=0&server=576&filename=gdjp.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640)

 :OoO:

(http://card.mtgdeckbuilder.net/SOM/172.jpg) (http://www.smileylich.com/mtg/scans/QuarterSizeProxies/Obsidian%20Battle-Axe.jpg)
(http://d28yjzray7dvaa.cloudfront.net/mtg-cards/fallen-empires/aeolipile.jpg) (http://card.mtgdeckbuilder.net/RAV/263.jpg) (http://d28yjzray7dvaa.cloudfront.net/mtg-cards/worldwake/razor-boomerang.jpg)

(http://static.gamesradar.com/images/mb/GamesRadar/us/Features/2010/10/Gamings%20greatest%20Draculas/castlevania--article_image.jpg)

 :victory:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 28, 2011, 09:22:54 AM
On a related note, how long do you think it'll be before the inevitable Duel Decks: Vampires vs. Werewolves?

First they'd have to print some werewolves that didn't suck.

Just rereading the thread, because I like seeing predictions.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on August 28, 2011, 10:12:07 AM
I don't think there's any way Except will work the way you'd like it to work.
Maybe this:

Except WUU
Instant
Counter target spell that does not target any of your permanents, spells or abilities.

This would double as a useful political card.

Unstable Prototype (no cost)
You may play Unstable Prototype as a copy of a card in your hand by revealing it and paying its mana cost, except it has haste and "At the end of turn, sacrifice Unstable Prototype."

Amorphous Ooze X1GG
Creature
Amorphous Ooze comes with X +1/+1 counters on it.
Remove a +1/+1 counter from Amorphous Ooze: Put a token creature that is a copy of Amorphous Ooze on the battlefield.
Sacrifice a creature named Amorphous Ooze: Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature named Amorphous Ooze.
1/1
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Bongo Bill on August 28, 2011, 10:18:19 AM
The problem with using +1/+1 counters for Amorphous Ooze is that having Doubling Season in play gives you an arbitrary number of creatures with an arbitrary number of counters on them.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 28, 2011, 10:18:39 AM
(http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg576/scaled.php?tn=0&server=576&filename=gdjp.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640)

 :OoO:

(http://card.mtgdeckbuilder.net/SOM/172.jpg) (http://www.smileylich.com/mtg/scans/QuarterSizeProxies/Obsidian%20Battle-Axe.jpg)
(http://d28yjzray7dvaa.cloudfront.net/mtg-cards/fallen-empires/aeolipile.jpg) (http://card.mtgdeckbuilder.net/RAV/263.jpg) (http://d28yjzray7dvaa.cloudfront.net/mtg-cards/worldwake/razor-boomerang.jpg)

(http://static.gamesradar.com/images/mb/GamesRadar/us/Features/2010/10/Gamings%20greatest%20Draculas/castlevania--article_image.jpg)

 :victory:

THIS IS THE WORK OF GODDAMNED VAMPIRES WIZARDS
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 28, 2011, 10:33:24 AM
Way to steal my idea, Buge.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 28, 2011, 10:35:38 AM
So when can we expect an MTG-themed Simo Belmo?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 28, 2011, 09:56:59 PM
So a grognard at the card shop today was all "GAME RUINED FOREVER"

It was almost adorable to see this neckbearded manchild rage about a card game.  This is the "LEGACY IS THE PUREST FORM AND ALL THOSE WHO CAN'T PLAY IT ARE DIRT BENEATH MY SHOE" type grognard.  The best kind. :D

If I had to condense it, I'd have to say "MTGSalvation distilled in to human form."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 29, 2011, 03:33:09 AM
Did you play a troll deck against him or what?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 29, 2011, 07:04:08 AM
I almost wanted to play Relentless Rats against him, but I figured that he didn't deserve it.  I instead played my lifegain deck where he hit me with that one mill spell with storm.  I got him down to 1 with a serra ascendant, pounding him with that while he worked on his stupid combo.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on August 29, 2011, 08:12:22 AM
I cannot wait for decks that are mostly land and placeholder cards.  Legal proxy decks?  I DON'T WANT TO LIVE ON THIS WORLD ANYMORE.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 29, 2011, 08:20:32 AM
Welcome to Legacy.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on August 29, 2011, 11:50:30 AM
Honestly, I intend to just use sleeves and bring four extra copies of any relevant cards, sleeved night-side-out.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kashan on August 29, 2011, 01:08:23 PM
Honestly I'm impressed that Magic would actually do something this weird. Now whether this mechanic justifies its self will be a totally different question, but I really though magic was too entrenched to try something like this.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 29, 2011, 03:38:43 PM
Honestly, I intend to just use sleeves and bring four extra copies of any relevant cards, sleeved night-side-out.

This is actually what I think will be pretty common, outside the expensive cards. And even with expensive cards, plenty of pimpin' idiots will want 8 copies or whatever now, just so they don't have to fool with sleeves.


.... wait a minute! This is all so clear now!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 29, 2011, 04:00:00 PM
Jon Finkel vs. OK Cupid (http://gizmodo.com/5833787/my-brief-okcupid-affair-with-a-world-champion-magic-the-gathering-player)

I was torn. On one hand, I thought of saying "There are dumb broads... and then there's this bitch" but on the other, I thought "There are certain activities that never become acceptable, no matter how well you do or how much you excel at them". Either way, it's kind of a silly story, sure to have all the neckbeards wringing their hands.

I don't think Jon was ever seen as the nicest or most open player, but I don't recall anyone calling him an asshole cheater or antisocial fleshbag, so he has my sympathies here.

The funny part was that she thinks it was wrong of him not to mention it on his profile while demonstrating exactly why he didn't.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 29, 2011, 04:16:43 PM
I wonder how she'd have reacted if he told her he was a high-level poker player and left it at that.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on August 29, 2011, 04:28:08 PM
Sounds pretty stuck up and bitchy to me.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 29, 2011, 04:48:57 PM
lol (http://twitter.com/#!/Jonnymagic00/status/108320602032570368)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 29, 2011, 06:03:39 PM
:lol:

That is the BEST comeback.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on August 30, 2011, 03:31:22 AM
"Here is a man that has the mental capability to make it big in a field not many do and he tries to not let it define his relationship with you but gamers AM I RIGHT GIRLS"

On other news:
(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/arcana/787_2_xedfy1r653.jpg)
Garruk IS Simon Belmont.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 30, 2011, 08:52:43 AM
I think it's really unfortunate that she posted that article. It's really going to cement that "bitches and whores" mentality that a lot of male nerds have towards women. It also means that other women have to step in (http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2011/08/alyssa-bereznak-just-reminded-us-that-women-can-be-predators-online-too/) and do damage control. (http://skepchick.org/2011/08/jon-finkel-dodged-a-bullet/)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on August 30, 2011, 09:16:55 AM
She is laughing all the way to the bank, it seems:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2011/08/30/the-science-of-gawkers-nerd-baiting/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2011/08/30/the-science-of-gawkers-nerd-baiting/)

Also? Turns out that's the edited-down version of the article. Australian Gizmodo has a version that's a bit... harsher:

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2011/08/my-okcupid-affair-with-a-world-champion-magic-the-gathering-player/ (http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2011/08/my-okcupid-affair-with-a-world-champion-magic-the-gathering-player/)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on August 30, 2011, 09:29:04 AM
He's got an AMA going on at reddit if you're interested (http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/jz3u7/iama_jon_finkel_ask_me_anything/)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 30, 2011, 10:04:36 AM
He's got an AMA going on at reddit if you're interested (http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/jz3u7/iama_jon_finkel_ask_me_anything/)

Quote from: Jon Finkel
I'm still bitter about Dark Confidant being so much better than Shadowmage Infiltrator tho

 :glee:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on August 30, 2011, 11:09:07 AM
Reading the Australian article, it strikes me as almost assuredly an intentional troll for the purposes of getting traffic/money, yeah. Shrug. Meanwhile the Honey Badger is in Africa eating larvae and not giving a shit
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 30, 2011, 08:26:01 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/iC79Y.jpg)

:glee:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 31, 2011, 03:44:59 AM
(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=123312&d=1314763231)

...Kinda lackluster, but I dunno.  The + ability is sort of a steep cost, but this, I think, captures the idea of a black planeswalker.  Her power comes cheaply, but at a steep price (forcing your own discard).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on August 31, 2011, 04:12:52 AM
(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/arcana/788_14a_ep6rcphx9y.jpg)(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/arcana/788_12_ep6rcphx9y.jpg)

What a horrible night to have a curse.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 31, 2011, 04:45:53 AM
(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=123312&d=1314763231)

...Kinda lackluster, but I dunno.  The + ability is sort of a steep cost, but this, I think, captures the idea of a black planeswalker.  Her power comes cheaply, but at a steep price (forcing your own discard).

Yeah, I was nerdraging that red gets blueballed on a 3cc planeswalker, but black gets this.

She's maybe a niche card, but yeah unless there's a deck that can use her first ability well, she's not going anywhere. Oh well, that's that much less we have to see that eyesore art (did we talk about that on these boards or was that only elsewhere?).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on August 31, 2011, 05:09:59 AM
What a horrible night to have a curse.

(http://img.ie/images/6b1c9.jpg) (http://img.ie/)
Perhaps the same could be said of ALL religions....
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 31, 2011, 05:28:16 AM
(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=123312&d=1314763231)

...Kinda lackluster, but I dunno.  The + ability is sort of a steep cost, but this, I think, captures the idea of a black planeswalker.  Her power comes cheaply, but at a steep price (forcing your own discard).
Hellooooooo dredge/madness enabler!

Yeah, I was nerdraging that red gets blueballed on a 3cc planeswalker, but black gets this.

She's maybe a niche card, but yeah unless there's a deck that can use her first ability well, she's not going anywhere. Oh well, that's that much less we have to see that eyesore art (did we talk about that on these boards or was that only elsewhere?).
:oic: And what's your issue with the art?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 31, 2011, 04:19:00 PM
It's terrible? Steve Argyle is a great artist and has done several really nice Lilliana pics. Only this is easily the worst of them. It's stiff, the anatomy is bizarrely off, she looks like she's made of plastic, and the colours are generally bad. It's just way below his normal skill level.

Larger size version can be seen here (http://i.imgur.com/7YTLB.jpg)

This pic looks like something a biker would get tattooed on his back. I don't know, maybe Steve was just trying too hard.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 31, 2011, 04:35:31 PM
Or maybe he was just setting himself up to do some amazing art modifications.  Like Glissa The Traitor Riding a Shark.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 31, 2011, 05:02:26 PM
Well, women riding chrome sharks ARE a Boris Vallejo fantasy art classic.

Haha I'm not actually kidding. Boris is/was fucking nuts.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 31, 2011, 06:53:00 PM
Soooo... does that mean you'd part with the card at a reduced price on general principle?

 :whoops:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 31, 2011, 07:11:34 PM
Weeelll we opened 2 to 2.5 boxes of M12 and managed to not get a single new walker at all. And that's about the usual luck for us. So I guess what I'm trying to say is the laws of fate will take the decision out of my hands anyway fuck you!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 31, 2011, 08:17:55 PM
(http://c0389161.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/dyn/str_strip/242309.full.gif)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 31, 2011, 08:56:25 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/2XyYh.jpg)

The set is the best set in years, I swear.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on August 31, 2011, 09:41:39 PM
Are there many blue zombies?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 31, 2011, 09:43:47 PM
There will be some in this set.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on August 31, 2011, 11:06:20 PM
Are there many blue zombies?

Although it isn't strictly a tribal set, Innistrad block will have a tribal component. It's been explained that werewolves are in green and red, vampires are in red and black, zombies are in black and blue (black as "traditional" zombies, with blue being Frankensteinian products of mad science), and ghosts ("geists") are in blue and white. Humans are in all the colors, but they're mainly in white and green.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on September 01, 2011, 03:38:12 AM
I'm excited for this set, even though I have no money and am still, ah, "butthurt" about how the last set was all about who could buy the most Jaces.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 01, 2011, 03:39:31 AM
YOU GOTTA PAY TO PLAY, BRAH.

(just kidding.  Combo winter suuuuuucked.)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 01, 2011, 09:12:52 PM
Jeeeeezis

(http://i.imgur.com/lzLAv.png)

Quote from: B-bot
it's probably the most complicated card made in the past 10 years
Quote from: B-bot
or ever maybe
Quote from: FMM
I'm gonna agree with this.  Even shit like Ice Cauldron was easy enough to understand; not that Garruk is hard to process, but he just does so goddamn much. He has two full text boxes, with small text, and that's not to mention that planeswalkers themselves have a lot of rules associated with them, as do transform cards.  Gah, what a nightmare!
Quote from: B-bot
i'd love to go back in time to the beginning of magic and show people this fucking card lol
Quote from: KCW
so it's the first planeswalker to ever have a non-loyalty-related ability, it's the first planeswalker with five abilities, it's the only non-creature that transforms (that we know of), it's the only card that can only transform one direction (that we know of), it's the only multicolor (that is, "gold") card ever to not have one of its colors in the mana cost or text, it creates two different tokens that have the same creature type but different p/t and one has an ability, it has an implementation of a newly-keyworded ability but works differently and doesn't use the keyword, and it has more sentences than ice cauldron.

fuck this card

In the last post, KCW's wrong about the one-way translations (the blue test subject that turnes into a 13/13 abomination is also one-way), but I can't fault the rest.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kashan on September 02, 2011, 04:31:11 AM
I love it. Magic players need to man up and be willing to read cards that aren't just power/toughness and a couple key-worded abilities.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 02, 2011, 04:44:05 AM
Thus far the Planeswalkers seem... underwhelming. Wottsy must have really been burned by Jace.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 02, 2011, 04:53:56 AM
I love it. Magic players need to man up and be willing to read cards that aren't just power/toughness and a couple key-worded abilities.

I don't mind complicated flavour driven cards, and I don't think new Garruk is hard to understand at all, but that card isn't so much "complicated" as it is a straight-up mess.

Also, Buge is right, he feels kind of weak. None of his abilities stand out that much, he can be tough to flip (if you really want to, I guess you can kill your own creatures, but that's a wasted turn and resources), and he's vulnerable (doesn't have a + ability on his front side and has to go down to 2 or 1 Loyalty to flip). Cranking out free wolf tickets all day might be good enough, but even so, that's nothing crazy.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 02, 2011, 06:13:12 AM
Well, they both feel weak. Liliana's abilities are very situational. Her ultimate isn't a clear game-winner like many other PW ultimates. And the only way I could see Garruk safely transform is if you get him on the board on your second turn while an opponent has a 1/1 in play.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on September 02, 2011, 02:28:21 PM
You can use one of your 1/1s too. Or one of his 2/2 wolves, in a pinch.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on September 02, 2011, 02:40:10 PM
That makes for an interesting mental image.  Garruk walks onto the battlefield, throws out a wolf then proceeds to wrestle it in the vicinity of everything else you have on the field.  As a result, he is terribly cursed.  This terrible fanfic writes itself.  It just lacks an ability involving having three wolves in play during a full moon.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 02, 2011, 02:42:08 PM
Yeah...I could see it going down like this:

Turn 1, Forest, Llanowar elf.

Turn 2, Forest, something for 3 mana that can eat a hit or two to protect Garruk.

Here's a few choices:
Cystbearer (2/3 infect for 3)
Dungrove Elder (P/T = forests you control for 3)
Garruk's Companion (3/2 Trample for GG)
Leatherback Baloth (4/5 for GGG)

Turn 3, Forest, tap out + elf for Garruk, Garruk zaps the elf, and flips with 2 loyalty.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 02, 2011, 03:48:48 PM
Yes, please. I definitely want my opponent to start destroying his own permanents so that he can play a 1/1 deathtouch creature or an Altar of Bone on turn 4.

:P
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 03, 2011, 03:31:25 PM
FYI guys, the best card in the set (by a wide margin) was spoiled:

Snapcaster Mage 1U
Creature - Human Wizard (R)
Flash
When Snapcaster Mage enters the battlefield, target instant or sorcery card in your graveyard gains flashback until end of turn. The flashback cost is equal to its mana cost.
2/1

Praise the fucking lord it's not a Mythic. Even so, it'll easily be a $15 rare and see play in all formats. 
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 03, 2011, 07:09:47 PM
So, hey, Philadelphia's Modern thing is kinda wild. (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/ptphi11/top8Decklists)  It isn't a single deck smashing things up, which is nice, but there are two Splinter Twin decks rocking it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 03, 2011, 09:00:24 PM
All the crazy mish-mashed 12-post decks are hilarious. As are the ones using stuff like Reaper King + Shoals.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 04, 2011, 04:38:03 AM
FYI guys, the best card in the set (by a wide margin) was spoiled:

Snapcaster Mage 1U
Creature - Human Wizard (R)
Flash
When Snapcaster Mage enters the battlefield, target instant or sorcery card in your graveyard gains flashback until end of turn. The flashback cost is equal to its mana cost.
2/1

Hey, it's Bob's new best friend, Tiago!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 04, 2011, 06:36:15 AM
Yep, that's the very last invitational card.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 04, 2011, 08:54:05 PM
(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/features/feature159_pic22.jpg)

(http://www.swotti.com/tmp/swotti/cacheAW50ZXJ2AWV3IHDPDGGGDGHLIHZHBXBPCMU=RW50ZXJ0YWLUBWVUDC1NB3ZPZXM=/imgEntrevista%20Con%20el%20Vampiro7.jpg)

No seriously, this is the best fucking plane ever.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 04, 2011, 08:56:12 PM
Oh and:

(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/isd/eld8jfmfs0_en.jpg)

:perfect:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 05, 2011, 04:17:58 AM
Pfffffffhahahahahahah
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on September 05, 2011, 05:53:00 AM
combo with doubling season
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 05, 2011, 06:38:57 AM
combo with pandemonium
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 05, 2011, 07:24:12 AM
Fffffucking lestat.

EDIT: Hey, I_M.  Find me some MTGSalvation stupidity.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 05, 2011, 04:15:21 PM
Uhhhh... look any ANY PAGE OF MTGS?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 05, 2011, 04:53:07 PM
Hmmm... More and more I'm noticing that Innistrad is getting criticized for being heavy on flavour, but the mechanics are suffering for it.

And it just came on the heels of a block set on Mirrodin, which, curiously enough, indirectly led to the ban of some cards. And Innistrad will be followed by a block set on Ravnica. At which point Magic will hit its 20th anniversary.

What I'm getting at is: Time Spiral 2.0 in 2013
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on September 05, 2011, 05:06:35 PM
20th Anniversary set predictions:
All cards prior to 20th banned in non-vintage formats.
They reboot MTG back to around say.... 4th edition, avoiding obvious MISTAKE cards this time around.
Finally, they scrap the Deckmaster backing once and for all.

The game-shop moaning, flame wars, and heavy breathing of neckbeards that ensues will drive the popcorn industry into a golden age as onlookers flock for snacks.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 05, 2011, 06:40:15 PM
Hmmm... More and more I'm noticing that Innistrad is getting criticized for being heavy on flavour, but the mechanics are suffering for it.

And it just came on the heels of a block set on Mirrodin, which, curiously enough, indirectly led to the ban of some cards. And Innistrad will be followed by a block set on Ravnica. At which point Magic will hit its 20th anniversary.

What I'm getting at is: Time Spiral 2.0 in 2013

It's funny because for many many years, Magic was very much anti-flavour in a way. While there was some extremely strong flavour in early sets, they put mechanics forward for many years. What flavour that existed was tacked on after the fact by a marketing team. Usually some kind of obnoxious magepunk, post-apocalyptic nonsense, or a combination.

I almost feel like that aspect of this set was the result of an argument or bet about top-down (flavour-driven), vs bottom up (mechanic-driven) design. It's like they're giving the top-down-favouring guys this one chance to show what a top-down set can be, only the way it's shaping up so far feel like some of the designers involved want really badly to prove the top-down folks wrong. So there are all these clunky, overwrought cards.

What it seems like those underminers (if they exist) don't understand is that it's perfectly possible to impart a strong flavour to a set without destroying your designs. Something like Army of the Damned is a great example. Okay, sure that particular card a bit weak, but it's clear and intuitive and dripping with perfect flavour.

Also, the planeswalkers we're getting are probably a little bit of a result of them being gun-shy over Jace. But I don't know that that argument is all that strong. M12 Garruk was very nice as a "fatter core set Garruk" and Jace fits with this set's themes very well (Chandra, I've bitched about elsewhere).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 05, 2011, 06:53:20 PM
So.

This is the art for a new vampire card blah blah blah. I'm sure a couple of you have seen it already.

There's something interesting going on here:

(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/2307/1315258815436.jpg)

It looks like the artist originally drew one knee up and one knee down. I guess someone didn't like that pose, because it looks like the second foot (the shadowed one) was added after the fact.

The problem is that the hand that used to be resting on the now-removed knee is now supposed to be holding up her dress. Only it doesn't look at all like that hand is actually holding anything.

So instead it looks like the biggest vampire dickgirl ever.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 05, 2011, 07:34:40 PM
Move aside, Uktabi Orangutan, Earthbind, and Clergy en-Vec. I think we have a new champion.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 05, 2011, 07:49:13 PM
I dunno, there's always...

(http://magiccards.info/scans/en/mr/171.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 05, 2011, 09:49:28 PM
If that art makes in on a card...oh man. :D
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: BEHOLD on September 06, 2011, 02:29:06 AM
You called?

(http://img.ie/images/241a8.jpg) (http://img.ie/)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 06, 2011, 04:43:55 AM
Behold her true form and do something, alright...
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on September 06, 2011, 04:55:00 AM
I can finally make my sex deck. Black-red with splash of green and blue (for Gwendlyn di Corci)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 06, 2011, 06:03:16 AM
If that art makes in on a card...oh man. :D

Uhm, McDohl...

This is the art for a new vampire card blah blah blah.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 06, 2011, 06:07:28 AM
shush
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 06, 2011, 06:11:51 AM
Oops, I just realized there's a GIANT COPY OF THE IMAGE in beholders post. That actually wasn't displaying when I replied.

So yeah, that makes my post look redundant and douchebaggerous.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 06, 2011, 07:36:41 AM
Is that even a word?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 06, 2011, 07:49:15 AM
It is now! :glee:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on September 06, 2011, 09:53:23 AM
I tried making a "suggestive images" deck but I'd have to go five-color Commander to use even half the cards I found

(obviously Progenitus from the FTV Legends set would be the commander)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 06, 2011, 05:06:36 PM
So, I was thinking, since I'm living on my own again, I'd like to kick off some podcasting endeavor again.  I'd like to make episodes of about 30 minutes or so where we talk about rumor mill stuff, deck strategies, possibly even playing a short game over Skype with silly decks (like my Relentless Rats deck and I_M's goofy Legacy nonsense).

Would any of you consent to babble on Skype for this sort of thing?

Also, I'm floating ideas in my head about what to call it.  I'm currently endeared with "The Denny's Club" or something like that, after people who get kicked out of brick and mortar places, and take their cards to Denny's or IHOP to keep playing.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 06, 2011, 05:49:52 PM
I'd like to, but I'm really not good at improv and also I hate my voice
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Bongo Bill on September 06, 2011, 06:08:02 PM
Magic: The Blathering
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 06, 2011, 06:38:42 PM
Does that exist?

Quick Google Search says...not really, since 2009 or so.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 15, 2011, 06:56:52 PM
So. A Cthulhu Mythos EDH deck. Is it possible? I say it is.

Right now I'm just brainstorming.

Cthulhu:
Wrexial, the Risen Deep

Shub-Niggurath:
Sheoldred, Whispering One

Hastur:
Ghastlord of Fugue

Ithaqua:
Drelnoch

Nyarlathotep:
Dralnu, Lich Lord

Abdul Alhazred:
Nebuchadnezzar

Charles Dexter Ward:
Doomed Necromancer

Randolph Carter:
Chainer, Dementia Master

Herbert West:
Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder

Deep Ones:
Shoreline Salvager
Surrakar Banisher
Surrakar Spellblade
Amphin Cutthroat
Inkfathom Witch
Ambassador Laquatus

Mi-go:
Bone Shredder

Mi-go's victim:
Psychosis Crawler

Yithians:
Phyrexian Infiltrator

Rats in the Walls:
Crypt Rats
Chittering Rats
Ravenous Rats
Rotting Rats
Lab Rats

Night Gaunts:
Nettling Imp
Maddening Imp
Norritt
Cadaver Imp
Chimmney Imp
Moroii

Shoggoths:
Hunted Horror
Mindleech Mass

Elder-Things:
Artisan of Kozilek
Hand of Emrakul
Grozoth

Silver Key:
Cloud Key

Haunter of the Dark:
Devouring Strssus

Music of Erich Zann:
Discordant Dirge
Lilting Refrain
Vile Requiem

Nyarlathotep's Masks:
Mask of Memory
Mask of Riddles
Farsight Mask

Necronomicon(s):
Emmessi Tome
Spellbook
Jalum Tome
Geth's Grimoire

Mountains of Madness:
Snow Lands
Mouth of Ronom
Scrying Sheets

Other stuff:
Krovikan Whispers
Phyrexian Etchings
Anything with "Transmute"
Brink of Madness
Subversion
Night's Whisper
Strands of Night
Hecatomb
Inexorable Tide
Plague Wind
Induce Paranoia
Delirium Skeins
Compulsive Research
Minions' Murmurs
Imp's Taunt
Glimpse the Unthinkable
See Beyond
Grave Pact
Dream Cache
Dream Fracture
Dreamborn Muse
Dreamstone Hedron
Insidious Dreams
Underworld Dreams
Nightmare Void
Nightmare Incursion
Implements of Sacrifice

Any suggestions?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on September 16, 2011, 08:14:28 AM
No Eldrazi? no Dark Depths?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 18, 2011, 07:20:47 AM
I dunno if you guys have been continuing to watch spoilers or not but there have been some CRAZY flavourful cards in this set. There is even a card that is Plants vs. Zombies on a single card.

A few other samples:

(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/isd/o1s7nocacb_en.jpg)

(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/isd/wo6ys4b9g8_en.jpg)

(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/isd/1kkjmkhk6k_en.jpg)


And then this:

Quote from: Reverend Bob
Quote from: Spoiler
Grimoire of the Dead
4
Legendary Artifact (M)
1, T, Discard a card: Put a study counter on ~.
T, Remove three counters and sac this: Return all creature cards from all graveyards to play under your control They are black Zombies in addition to their color and creature types.
Klaatu...

Barada....

Nnnnnnecktie....

There, I said it...  I said your stupid words.

 :glee:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 18, 2011, 07:46:13 AM
Dear god, how many Mythics are in this set?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 18, 2011, 11:52:06 AM
???

Just the usual 15 (usual for a large set).

They've spoiled all of them now. And - thank goodness! - they all seem either unplayable in serious formats or usable only very situationally, except maybe Lilliana who can probably go in a couple decks and will see at least some play in Standard. There's a couple that might pan out in a deck somewhere (Skaab Ruinator, Geist of Saint Traft, Past In Flames, Mirror-Mad Geist), but even if they make it, they're not going to be ubiquitous.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on September 18, 2011, 08:07:28 PM
There is even a card that is Plants vs. Zombies on a single card.

?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: on September 18, 2011, 08:09:31 PM
Yeah you don't say something like that and then not show us.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: BEHOLD on September 18, 2011, 09:37:20 PM
There is even a card that is Plants vs. Zombies on a single card.

?

BEHOLD:

(http://img.ie/images/985c6.jpg) (http://img.ie/)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 18, 2011, 10:25:28 PM
:D
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 18, 2011, 11:52:35 PM
http://mtgsalvation.com/1312-the-math-of-banning-sol-ring-in-commander.html (http://mtgsalvation.com/1312-the-math-of-banning-sol-ring-in-commander.html)

Article name should be self-explanatory.

I haven't read it all.  I'll weigh in on it shortly.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 19, 2011, 12:10:29 AM
Honestly, who cares?  Sol Ring is almost as ubiquitous as Sensei's Divining Top, Lightning Greaves, and signets, if not more so.  Degenerate twats that decide to run turn-one/two victories in EDH deserve nothing less than scorn and ridicule, even being ousted.  For every Jhoira of the Ghitu you see, there's always something much, much worse.  Dropping Rite of Replication kicked on Kokusho, the Evening Star before he was banned.

I might need to sleep on what I think about Sol Ring, but for now, I can really only say that Sol Ring isn't as much of a problem as the article is stating.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on September 19, 2011, 03:24:19 AM
Several other Transform cards change color without warning text, like Civilized Scholar.

(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/isd/gcz05wq1ox_en.jpg)
These dogs are FUCKING HARDCORE.

(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/isd/4qn55h84cx_en.jpg)
hooray for Standard Wayne Reynolds "BRRM I'M AN AIRPLANE" Pose

(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/isd/4quwym0i0j_en.jpg)
BUT NO FLYING IN GREEN, HONEST.

(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/isd/2phhmzly54_en.jpg)
lolwhat.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on September 19, 2011, 03:34:59 AM
(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/isd/4quwym0i0j_en.jpg)
BUT NO FLYING IN GREEN, HONEST.

wtf? also this is slightly worse than flying in that it can't block things with flying.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 19, 2011, 04:59:01 AM
That tree threw me off because I thought we had 15 mythics already. Can't figure out which card on the Salvation spoiler was wrong before.

EDIT: Huh, no, there are 16 Mythics.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: MadMAxJr on September 19, 2011, 01:57:16 PM
So who picked up the Duels of the Planeswalkers expansion on steam?  I wouldn't mind playing a few hands.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on September 19, 2011, 09:06:21 PM
I really love the zombie theme of this set, but can we stop with the two white mana knights.


Edit: I can see why Sol Ring would get banned it does get a bit ridiculous though I haven't played commander yet. I just haven't had the drive to come up with something fun yet. It's a really good card regardless. It's a solid 2 mana producing artifact. This is mostly why signets and other things came in for two mana. Which was also good, but not too fast. Except the signets were specialized for two colors.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on September 20, 2011, 09:00:10 AM
So that new ban list. Ponder and Preordain? I mean yeah they are really good, but still.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f216/Ninjabredman01/299785_10150293755272918_174376972917_7998500_1744880946_n.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 20, 2011, 10:15:49 AM
The ban list update was goddamned hilarious, especially for Modern. Basically they started off by banning half the format. Then they banned the other half.

Amusingly, they unbanned Fact or Fiction in Type 1, but it still won't see much play since Jace is usually better at the 4-mana slot and isn't a 4-of. And they finally got around to paying attention to Extended (i.e. banning Jace & Stoneforge mystic there too).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on September 20, 2011, 11:24:40 AM
Jace and Stoneforge banning make a little more sense in extended, but the one that really got me was green sun. "Withholding comment on this one for now.Green Sun seems a bit odd (If you think Tarmogoyf is that broken then ban him rather than the tutor). It's a very versatile card that doesn't feel broken, even when fetching Primeval Titan on turn 3 off Cloudposts."

Edit: I read modern as standard ignore that.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 20, 2011, 06:23:19 PM
M11: Enchantment cards are discontinued under the notion that they are redundant and replaced with coloured artifacts.

M12: After a disastrous Pro-Tour event, all blue cards are put on the Restricted list.

M13: The one-land-per-turn rule is rescinded. Designers claim it makes the game "too slow."

M14: The Hasbro-Disney/Marvel merger sees the first proprietary cards printed. Donaldpool decks sweep the tournament scene.

This was about two years ago.  :3
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 20, 2011, 07:23:24 PM
M11: Enchantment cards are discontinued under the notion that they are redundant and replaced with coloured artifacts.

M12: After a disastrous Pro-Tour event, all blue cards are put on the Restricted list.

M13: The one-land-per-turn rule is rescinded. Designers claim it makes the game "too slow."

M14: The Hasbro-Disney/Marvel merger sees the first proprietary cards printed. Donaldpool decks sweep the tournament scene.

This was about two years ago.  :3

:0

And they did put coloured artifacts in New Phyrexia too!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 20, 2011, 07:42:54 PM
Quote from: /tg/
Yeah, Magic would be awful in animated form. If they actually tried to integrate real-life decks into the show they'd have to have a Planeswalker who "plays" Manaless Dredge. He'd flop onto the battlefield screaming random nonsense and grasping at his head where you can actually see his brains oozing out his ears and suddenly there's 20 various zombies erupting from the ground.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on September 21, 2011, 10:30:00 AM
Please show me the cards so I can understand that joke
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: BEHOLD on September 21, 2011, 10:38:09 AM
Golgari Grave-Troll (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=88960)!
Narcomoeba (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=136140)!
Dread Return (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=116721)!
Bridge from Below (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=136054)!

And so on! (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/deck/760)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on September 21, 2011, 06:03:20 PM
I remember, when I was young, reading a MtG licensed book called Arena.  Like most MtG books, it was hardly high art, but it had a legitimate presentation of games of Magic as they're supposed to be presented by the fluff.  You could do it thusly.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on September 22, 2011, 10:30:31 AM
Please show me the cards so I can understand that joke

Manaless Dredge is a deck where you never use any mana to summon creatures, instead relying on putting cards directly from the library and your hand onto the graveyard (an ability often flavored as some form of insanity) and then pulling them to the battlefield with revival abilities.

Doug Beyer tries to flavor it on this article - http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/stf/155 (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/stf/155)

"Sure, you may have to invest all your magical study in wrecking your own mind, learn the ways of Golgari creatures that can devour your long-term memory, search the Multiverse for nightmarish horrors that don't frankly care whether they're living or dead, and devise methods of paying in some darker quantities than mana—but you can do it. Summon your army without even a single mana bond, go ahead. It's not easy—and it takes a decade's worth of cards from a half-dozen far-flung planes to be able to pull it off—but sure, if you don't want to use mana, go ahead and sacrifice your sanity, knowledge, and lifeblood instead. There are forces in the Multiverse who'd be happy to take those as legal tender too."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 22, 2011, 12:06:55 PM
I love playing Manaless Dredge. Sure, it gets randomly blown out, but it's just a ton of fun to play.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 22, 2011, 05:20:38 PM
I have to admit, the notion of not being bothered by land destruction or counterspells seems refreshing.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 03, 2011, 06:15:22 PM
(http://xerent.no-ip.org/files/transform-small.gif)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on October 03, 2011, 06:42:37 PM
...what the dicks is that nonsense, IM
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 03, 2011, 07:49:10 PM
A fella I know likes to make funny cards. That one's a joke about, well, I think it's obvious, really.

The reverse side is a Howlpack Alpha using this (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=274362) cube's theme. (I purchased a secret printed-as-real-cards copy of that cube! Currently waiting for my order to arrive!)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kashan on October 03, 2011, 08:14:31 PM
A fella I know likes to make funny cards. That one's a joke about, well, I think it's obvious, really.

The reverse side is a Howlpack Alpha using this (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=274362) cube's theme. (I purchased a secret printed-as-real-cards copy of that cube! Currently waiting for my order to arrive!)

How/where did you purchase this?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 03, 2011, 08:30:11 PM
Probably through the secret MTG society that only allows the most hardcore players to join. Mongrel told me about it once. Once you have a complete set of Power 9, a pair of guys in dark suits come to your house and give you a letter of introduction and a signet ring.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 03, 2011, 08:58:43 PM
The guy who made it set up a secret order form with a print-on-demand company. Cost me $78 or so, shipped, for a whole cube, with basic lands.

We're not supposed to share, so I'm afraid I can't really point you to his email address to ask.

This is mostly because the cards are mechanically unaltered Magic cards and every piece of art is stolen from DevArt and the like. Like there is literally nothing about this cube that that is even remotely copyright-safe. 
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on October 03, 2011, 09:11:36 PM
What is a "cube"?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 03, 2011, 09:22:27 PM
A fixed set of cards to repeatedly draft from. Subject to the cube-builder's preferences. Players planning to draft shuffle the cub and randomly take 15 x 3 cards and draft them as if they were packs.

This particular cube is very high-powered, with the power nine and many other busted cards included. Other cubes have goofy themes, or only use crappy cards, or whatever.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kashan on October 04, 2011, 04:37:09 AM
Is there a possibility of you acting as a middle man with no interaction between myself and whoever?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 04, 2011, 07:10:48 AM
I can only buy the one cube.  :(
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on October 04, 2011, 10:55:37 AM
the PDF is available on the page, so if you know a print-on-demand company that does playing cards, you can just use that.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 13, 2011, 08:27:08 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/IfZ3s.gif)

I love Inkwell Looter.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 13, 2011, 09:29:32 PM
Oh man, you have no idea how accidentally topical that manages to be.

So, somehow I failed to mention the glorious hilarity that is DACK FAYDEN.

See, they're putting out new MTG comics. And they're going to star some Blue/Red Planeswalker named DACK FAYDEN (no, not Ral Zarek (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=331944) (confirmed Izzet dorkus), the OTHER unpublished blue/red Planeswalker).

The first sign that things were going to be "good" was when the promotional image of DACK FAYDEN (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=360590) surfaced. I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty sure that actually looks like the cover to a bodice ripper.

Then they published the promotional card that'll be with the comic (reprint of a Zendikar common).

(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/arcana/819_adiki2s6rt.jpg)

Things sorta went from there:

<QED> DACK FAYDEN and the case of the neighbor who borrowed his lawnmower and then sold it at a garage sale
<Doug> Hahahaha
<Mongrel> ROFL
<KCW> DACK FAYDEN and the case of the dictionary dispute
<Nemryn> DACK FAYDEN and the case of the roommate who used the last of the peanut butter and didn't buy any more
<grinder> DACK FAYDEN and the case of who the fuck names their kid DACK FAYDEN
<mark-> Dack Fayden and the Case of the Day-Old Sushi
<Nemryn> DACK FAYDEN and the case of the trust-fund babies
<Nemryn> DACK FAYDEN and the case of the dog that won't fucking stop barking, for Urza's sake, what does a guy have to do to get some peace and quiet around here, huh?
<Nemryn> DACK FAYDEN and the case of instant ramen
<Nemryn> DACK FAYDEN and the case of the genre-inappropriate cyberpunk adventure
<spectre> i read it as 'Dick Faygen' basically every time
<Nemryn> DACK FAYDEN and the case of the homoerotic doppelganger
<Gasface> DACK FAYDEN and the case that didn't contain a single mythic, are you fucking kidding me
<QED> DACK FAYDEN and the case of the misspent youth
<QED> When Dack Fayden leaves a room, he throws wide the doors and yells, "FAYD-OUT!"
<Frodo> DACK FAYDEN and the Case of Innistrad and no I'm not gonna let you guys draft with this I bought it for myself to open if you wanna draft go buy your own stuff oh wait you can't cause you spend all your money on that stupid wife of yours.
<Mongrel> Dack Fayden buys smokes for the underage kids, in spite of the posted signs that clearly indicate that this is illegal.
<Mongrel> [Quote: <Nemryn> DACK FAYDEN and the case of the roommate who used the last of the peanut butter and didn't buy any more]
<Mongrel> "Shit, broski. Why you always asking the Dackman about your stuff. I didn't touch it. Hell, I'm insulted you asked. Yeah, I know there's only two of us living here - what's your point?"
<DS~> dack why is there a dick sized hole in the middle of the penaut butter jar and why is there dog shit in the back yard
<Mongrel> DACK FAYDEN can answer that because DACK FAYDEN knows the answer to /every/ question.
<Mongrel> The answer to every question is "Your Mom."
<KCW> DACK FYAD-IN
<Mark-> DACK FAYDEN doesn't just steal relics, he owns them.
<frodo> DACK FAYDEN and the Mysterious Case of why the girl he brought home last night can't remember anything beyond her drink tasting funny
<grinder> dack: hey everybody!
<grinder> everybody: hey dack!
<grinder> dack: hey, who's got something to drink?
<grinder> someone: i do; over there.
<grinder> dack: what is it?
<grinder> someone: a martini.
<grinder> dack: a martini? i wanna dip my scrolls in it!
<Baz> lol you guys :D
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 14, 2011, 05:47:52 AM
Somehow I'm not surprised. Wizards needed a character more obnoxious than Jace to make him look better by comparison.

I'm not saying it works, but still.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 20, 2011, 06:15:26 PM
Oh man, Trollscape (http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=219201). Quite possibly the best EDH deck built to dick people around until they give up/punch you in the face.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 24, 2011, 06:52:39 PM
Other than a somewhat lacklustre climax, The Cursed Blade (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/166a&dcmp=ilc-mtgrss#76940) was actually pretty okay!

I think it's been well over a decade since I could actually say that about any MTG fluff.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 24, 2011, 08:01:53 PM
Rumour has it that there are sanctioned EDH tournaments with prize support and stuff. Stores can even do it for Friday Night Magic. Is this true?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 24, 2011, 08:10:54 PM
I have not heard of actual sanctioned events, but the ones with real prizes that I've heard about are always a stupendous disaster (except in Europe, where true-competitive 1v1 EDH is A Thing, but they've got a special Euro-circuit ban-list just for those matches).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 25, 2011, 05:54:42 AM
I have not heard of actual sanctioned events, but the ones with real prizes that I've heard about are always a stupendous disaster (except in Europe, where true-competitive 1v1 EDH is A Thing, but they've got a special Euro-circuit ban-list just for those matches).

Oh thank god
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 25, 2011, 06:20:29 AM
The worst - I mean the absolute worst - are EDH tournaments with prizes that score by using that list of SheldonPoints.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 25, 2011, 07:01:34 AM
SheldonPoints.

I'm almost afraid to ask.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 25, 2011, 07:13:32 AM
Those "Fun" points talked about a while ago, like -5 for blowing up lands, +1 for targeting three guys with something or whatever.

Basically, Sheldon Menery's unofficial suggestions on how 'his' game 'should' be played.

They're horrible enough in a casual setting, but in a competitive situation, the rules get gamed so badly it's downright morbid.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on October 25, 2011, 05:50:27 PM
here you can read them. it's like... it's like Magic The Achievement Server.

http://armadagames.com/forums/showthread.php?33-Commander-%28EDH%29-League-Points-List (http://armadagames.com/forums/showthread.php?33-Commander-%28EDH%29-League-Points-List)

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 26, 2011, 08:23:07 PM
A friend of mine ordered a playset of FNM foil Sakura-Tribe Elders from an online retailer. What he got was three Sakura-Tribe Elders and one of these (http://magiccards.info/jr/en/43.html).

 :whoops:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 26, 2011, 09:40:10 PM
Hoooleeeee Sheeet.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on October 27, 2011, 03:01:54 AM
Ah,whoopsie.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 27, 2011, 08:31:36 PM
http://magiccardswithgooglyeyes.tumblr.com/ (http://magiccardswithgooglyeyes.tumblr.com/)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on October 28, 2011, 03:13:02 AM
Oh, no wonder I had dejavu

The Talking Time kids beat you to it, IM.

Still, that website is amazing.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltpnk5JiZN1r5zvlxo1_500.jpg)
This one is seriously my favorite.

My disappointment is abound when I realize that Manic "I HATE SCIENCE" Vandal's artwork does not support googly eyes.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 29, 2011, 03:07:39 PM
Glissa, the Traitor (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=214072")

Tainted Wood (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=31760")
Temple of the False God (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247406")
Arena (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=109739")
Command Tower (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=237004")
Barren Moor (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247344")
Bojuka Bog (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247536")
Tranquil Thicket (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247357")
Tree of Tales (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205312")
Vault of Whispers (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205313")
Twilight Mire (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=153425")
Overgrown Tomb (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=89072")
Llanowar Wastes (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=129627")
Maze of Ith (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=201263")
Verdant Catacombs (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=193400")
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=131005")
Gilt-Leaf Palace (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=153455")
Golgari Rot-Farm (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247380")
Vivid Grove (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247308")
Mystifying Maze (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=204978")
Cabal Coffers (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205421")
Forest x10
Swamp x7

Reassembling Skeleton (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=226565")
Nettling Imp (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=1169")
Nekrataal (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=129658")
Seedborn Muse (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=129722")
Nezumi Graverobber (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247175")
Wickerbough Elder (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=220575")
Nirkana Revenant (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=193472")
Grave Titan (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=241830")
Sheoldred, Whispering One (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=214382")
Puppeteer Clique (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=146761")
Shriekmaw (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=259272")
Throat Slitter (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=74108")
Primeval Titan (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=241832")
Vhati il-Dal (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=109759")
Yavimaya Elder (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247524")
Eternal Witness (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247148")
Gatekeeper of Malakir (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=185698")
Fleshbag Marauder (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247153")
Avatar of Woe (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247520")
Acidic Slime (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=226906")
Fangren Marauder (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=213732")
Woodfall Primus (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=151987")
Sakura-Tribe Elder (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247176")
Moriok Replica (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=209037")
Sylvok Replica (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=209052")
Solemn Simulacrum (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=236907")
Duplicant (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=220526")
Wurmcoil Engine (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=207875")
Myr Battlesphere (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=209717")
Steel Hellkite (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=206351")

Lightning Greaves (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247337")
Scythe of  the Wretched (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=49048")
Mask of Avacyn (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=221193")
Darksteel Plate (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=213749")
Sword of Light and Shadow (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=47453")
Skullclamp (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247201")
Loxodon Warhammer (http://"Loxodon Warhammer")
Nim Deathmantle (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=209289")
Argentum Armor (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=217967")
Oblivion Stone (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247338")
Elixir of Immortality (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=221525")
Expedition Map (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=193405")
Manalith (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=220162")
Wayfarer's Bauble (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=51110")
Dreamstone Hedron (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247395")
Crystal Ball (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205049")
Sculpting Steel (http://"Sculpting Steel")
Executioner's Capsule (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=174895")
Mindslaver (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=209044")
Jester's Cap (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=212627")
Horizon Spellbomb (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=210229")
Nihil Spellbomb (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=210226")
Coalition Relic (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=209158")
Mind Stone (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=189228")

Bear Umbra (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=198304")
Strands of Night (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=13175")
Asceticism (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=215082")
Phyrexian Arena (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=209132")
Grave Pact (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247142")

Praetor's Grasp (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=218050")
Genesis Wave (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=207882")
Dread Return (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=116721")
Cultivate (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247320")
Demonic Tutor (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=202628")
Dimir Machinations (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=87981")
Diabolic Tutor (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=221519")
Harmonize (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247360")
Decree of Pain (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=43522")
Promise of Power (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=197026")
Beacon of Unrest (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=220482")
Ashes to Ashes (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=201250")
Beseech the Queen (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205399")
Vigor Mortis (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=88986")
Green Sun's Zenith (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=221559")

Krosan Grip (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=126274")
Sudden Death (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=108804")
Slice in Twain (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=208254")
Reclaim (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=226903")
Noxious Revival (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=230067")
Harrow (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=209114")
Worldly Tutor (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=15429")
Putrefy (http://"http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=89063")

Help me cut twenty cards please.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Dooly on October 30, 2011, 09:33:26 PM
That's a giant stack of malformed URLs.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 31, 2011, 03:40:57 AM
freck
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 31, 2011, 05:25:02 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/tSax5.jpg)

I made some proxies
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 31, 2011, 05:35:38 PM
:OoO:

Those... those are almost exactly like my proxies from 17 years ago. Certainly you used the same base cards.



Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 31, 2011, 05:52:56 PM
So you predicted Primeval Titan, huh?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 31, 2011, 06:05:35 PM
Only if "Mox Emerald" is a Primeval Titan.

Man, I will show you when you come over next time. Looking at your cards is like going into some kinda time warp [insert joke here].
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 31, 2011, 06:31:05 PM
Why don'tcha come on down here? There's a sealed tournament later this month... I think the grand prize is a Timetwister.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 31, 2011, 06:47:35 PM
That's an odd prize for a sealed tournament. What's the format... Innistrad? :wat:

Is it on a weekend? I'm working weekends for the foreseeable future.

Also, it's the time of year that I gotta start picking my driving days carefully.



Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 31, 2011, 07:16:05 PM
That's an odd prize for a sealed tournament. What's the format... Innistrad? :wat:
Yes. First place gets that or two boxes, second gets a box, third gets a pile of boosters, fourth gets a slightly smaller pile of boosters...
Is it on a weekend? I'm working weekends for the foreseeable future.
Even sundays? :C
Also, it's the time of year that I gotta start picking my driving days carefully.
Oh yeah, like what happened last year at GP and the horrible freezing rain.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 31, 2011, 07:19:39 PM
Yes, even Sundays. And yes, like the day with the freezing rain.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 01, 2011, 06:34:57 PM
What's a better sack outlet in EDH, Miren (http://magiccards.info/sok/en/163.html) or High Market (http://magiccards.info/mm/en/320.html)? Miren costs more, but there's a bigger payoff, and the market is basically free, but its lifegain is minuscule.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 01, 2011, 07:58:09 PM
I'd say it depends on how much mana your deck typically plays with. If mana is no object then Miren might be better. But honestly, this is about which is purely a better sac outlet, then it's High Market. Life is nice but generally a secondary consideration.

But really, if you're playing EDH, why not run both?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 01, 2011, 09:34:43 PM
You put into words what I was trying to think. I don't want anybody sending my dudes to Swords-to-Plowshares land, and people scoff when I mention Despotic Scepter (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=184615).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 01, 2011, 10:52:00 PM
Innnnteresting news.

Quote from: GyantSpyder
Pro Play changes

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/167a (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/167a)

2012 World Championship

No longer a Pro Tour. It is now a 16-person invitational tournament at Gen Con. Total prize pool is 100K. The 16 people are:

1 - 2011 World Champion
1 - 2011 Magic Online Champion (determined at the 2011 Magic Online Championship held at Magic Weekend San Francisco)
Last three Pro Tour winners
5 - Top-ranked players, one each from Asia Pacific, Europe, Japan, Latin America, and North America in 2012 Pro Planeswalker Points (excluding the above).
9 - Rest are globally by 2012 Pro Planeswalker Points.

Pro Planeswalker points only count Pro Tours, Grand Prix, and last year's World Championship.

Presumably there is no teams section, and many countries will not be represented.

National Championships

Now a dead-end, like States. They offer an 8x Planeswalker Point multiplier for the purpose of qualifying for Pro Tours, but do not count for Worlds.

Pro Points and the Pro Players Club

Existing commitments will be met, but Pro Points are going away, and the Pro Players Club is ending at the end of 2012.

Other stuff

Player of the Year and Rookie of the Year are going away.

Qualifying for a Pro Tour via Planeswalker Points earns you airfare, as does winning a PTQ.

Other stuff, like the replacement of Pro Points, and also a new process for selecting the Hall of Fame, will be announced later.

There will probably also be some sort of end-of-season awards, but not the current Rookie of the Year award.

Commentary from a professional in corporate communications

From a corporate comms standpoint, that announcement was terrible. It was full of doublespeak and way too many quotes, and if people cared about it, it would really hurt Forsythe's credibility because it quotes him so much saying bullshit.

I don't know who Larabee and Burgeaot are, but, as a corporate comms. professional, this announcement makes me hate them. They sound like suits coming in and messing around with something they don't understand for their own aggrandizement. That probably isn't who they are, but the amount of times they are put up there with Forsythe is disconcerting from the perspective of management decisions being made with an eye toward a close relationship with the community.
Quote from: GyantSpyder
Also, apparently Helene Bergeot is the person who is ultimately responsible for these changes.

Helene is a French ~MBA (Masters of Economics from de Nancy, rough equivalent) from Kenner Parker (another Hasbro subsidiary) who came over to Wizards Marketing through Wizards Europe. She was made a Senior Marketing Manager at Wizards at 2007, then went from Senior Manager of Organized Play in 2009 to Director of Organized Play and Operations last year.

For those not familiar with corporate politics, the Director title and the Operations title when appended to an existing job role without an especially notable change in responsibilities are red flags for somebody who got straight-up promoted for corporate strategic reasons rather than to fill a customer-oriented function.

She does a fairly interesting if self-serving damage-control Q&A that apparently Forsythe stamped his face on. It's a rough read. Whoever is writing for her doesn't really have a voice for her figured out yet:

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/167b (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/167b)

This is on top of the recent changes from about 2-3 months ago where pro points are now geared much more towards frequency of play than quality of play.

Huge stuff, if you're into competitive magic. "Living the dream" with a lucky win (like say grinding into your nationals and making the national team) just became vastly more difficult, if not impossible.

Basically I read two things in these changes.

1) Wizards wants to cut back the Large Munnies they spend on pro tournaments. Whether is is due to actual financial duress or not, I can't speculate.
2) Most Magic "heroes" are liked for their personalities rather than their raw skill. Skill is only important insofar as it gets a player a platform to be noticed on. By vastly shrinking the number of pros, it looks like Wizards thinks they can artificially manufacture heroes (based on raw skill, as if this was a sport), as opposed to providing a rich field for them to arise naturally in.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 02, 2011, 08:29:00 PM
Forget the horrible news. Let's look at some pretty card alters.

(http://i.imgur.com/GmoBf.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/Hen8l.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on November 03, 2011, 05:32:42 PM
So, Buge.  Did you see what Alpha did before Talking Time exploded tonight?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 03, 2011, 07:56:56 PM
No. My last visit was you foking destrucity at Destil or whatever.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on November 04, 2011, 02:43:03 AM
Well, now that you can see it.

Holy balls this game is zany.

and HERE I GO HAVING TO TYPE UP MY LIBRARY LIST AGAIN

SERIOUSLY, EVERYONE, STOP PAWING THROUGH MY LIBRARY.

NOTHING YOU WANT TO SEE HERE.

NO UMEZAWA'S JITTES OR TOPS OR SWORDS OF X AND Y HERE
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 07, 2011, 06:39:28 AM
You know how people are always going on about how something or other is going to herald the end of MtG? This article (http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/traderous-instinct-the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it/) makes a pretty compelling argument in that regard. Magic's end, if anything, will probably come from the problems caused by massive restructuring of organized play and the magic community at large.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on November 07, 2011, 07:56:57 AM
I think the assumption is that Magic is such a complicated game that most people will buy a deck, try to play it properly, fail and give up. I dunno.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 07, 2011, 06:49:58 PM
I hate to point out the obvious, but people have been saying "Magic is dying!/This is the end!/WotC is running out of ideas!" for almost 20 years now.

Being the Microsoft of gaming may make them dull, unimaginative, prone to complementing big successes with endless small failures, kludgey, beholden to stockholders rather than imagination, or any number of other things, but until a SERIOUS competitor gives them a real, sustained problem, they will survive just fine.

That article has good points (I myself have gone on about longtime players not being the target market, the focus on newer, younger players, and the high turnover), but really he kind of cancels himself out. When he mentions that WotC revenue was up 30% that IS actually relevant. Hasbro may try to reduce WotC's budget somewhat to cut costs across the board, but they're not going to outright kill WotC.

In fact, there's probably very very little that can kill Magic at this point. But I do agree that Hasbro and WotC can weaken the game to a point where competition looks much more attractive. The main issue there is that no CCG has ever come close to having a sustained level of quality comparable to Magic's. Of course, that doesn't mean that some other type of game won't beat Magic in the future, but that's some pretty far-off speculation.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 16, 2011, 08:49:20 AM
I've been looking at Greg Leeds's announcement regarding Organized Play (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/169a), but... it doesn't appear that he's saying anything.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 16, 2011, 08:29:41 PM
Nope!

They are clearly going to backpedal some, but it's anybody's guess as to how much or how.

Apparently the nerdrage over the changes has been pretty overwhelming. Worse, not a single person has stood up for Wizards - the best they got was a non-committal "Weeeeeellllll these don't look great, but let's wait a bit and see how this goes." from some quarters. To me that's more impressive, because there's almost always SOME idiot who'll throw themselves under the bus to defend the overlords.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Bongo Bill on November 16, 2011, 08:36:01 PM
So wait, what's this about?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 16, 2011, 08:45:29 PM
Wizards made some big changes to Organized Play. As near as I can tell, they've made the Pro Tour contingent on Planeswalker Points and drastically reduced the prize payout for tournament winners, making it extremely difficult for non-Americans to make it to large events. I'm not sure what else they've done, but I know a lot of people are pissed.

Is there an upside to all this that could offset the problems they've created? Outlook not so good.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 16, 2011, 10:23:28 PM
Short version:

- Pro Tours (large closed tournaments) are now basically impossible to qualify for, unless you're a high level pro
- Grand Prix (large open tournaments) are roughly as accessible as they were before but are now a dead end
- Nationals Championships are now a dead end
- The World Championships has changed from countries sending teams of players to a sixteen-man invitational-only closed format that has no relation to Nationals
- Outside of the US Eastern Seaboard and Midwest it will become a lot harder for players to access enough events to reach the highest levels of play and most international players will functionally have no access to the world championships

This is on top of recent (~six months) changes to the way ratings points are awarded. The old system rewarded skill but also rewarded top players who "sat on their rating" I.E. not playing games helped keep your rating high. The new system discourages sitting on ratings, but is now very very grindy and rewards frequency of play over skill (though not by a HUGE margin).

The essential upshot of all this is that Wizards has effectively destroyed the dreams of a lot of semi-pros or aspiring pros hoping to get lucky and "Live the Dream", even if only for a short while.

Example scenario: Before the changes, you could conceivably grind your way into a nationals tournament the day before, get lucky enough to make top-four and get on your nationals team and then attend Worlds. That's an extreme long shot, but similar things had in fact happened on a few occasions. Now such things are impossible.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 18, 2011, 10:50:16 AM
I know it sounds mercenary, but I hope this will cause card prices to take a hit. If the dream of going pro is dead for some people, I think they might just put up their collections and flood the market.

I want affordable cards.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 18, 2011, 11:40:59 AM
It'll take more than this to reduce prices. Even if it did, the effect would take some time to happen and would mostly affect standard prices (of course the majority of cards I buy now are standard cards as they come out, so cheaper cards is still a boon there...).

However, I will say that it's possible that the reason they're backpedaling is because some large retailers expressed anger/panic at the changes. I mean, player discontent is one thing, but that was actually a pretty fast response to INTERNETS RABBLE RABBLE.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 22, 2011, 09:12:27 PM
What the FUCK. (http://themostexpensivethings.com/most-expensive-magic-card.html)

This is too stupid to be a troll job. I... don't... what?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 22, 2011, 09:33:46 PM
Whoever wrote that probably also priced a Japanese Blue Eyes Ultimate Dragon at $500,000 (http://themostexpensivethings.com/most-expensive-yugioh-card.html).

So I'm guessing it's either an 11-year-old child who went around his LGS and asked what the prices were of the cards in his collection, or a poor attempt at trolling.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 22, 2011, 10:32:39 PM
Or a very elaborate attempt to get $10 for a Spined Wurm.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 23, 2011, 10:29:09 AM
I have a rules question. Say I have Monkey Cage (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=19878) out and I cast Fangren Marauder (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=213732). What happens, trigger-wise?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on November 23, 2011, 10:33:41 AM
you gain 5 life. The cage triggers on a dude coming into play, So it doesn't go into the graveyard until after he's already in play, and then he can see that it's going to the graveyard and give you five life.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 23, 2011, 10:43:31 AM
And I get six monkeys.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 06, 2011, 02:53:40 PM
In our continuing quest for ridiculous foreign cards, I just acquired a pair of these:

(http://magiccards.info/scans/de/di/160.jpg)

:suave:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on December 06, 2011, 05:04:28 PM
Scott pilgrim vs the world, WE ARE!! Sex Bob-omb!! 1 2 3 4!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdWrdJb0KWU#ws)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on December 06, 2011, 05:18:35 PM
So, there was a new Premium deck.

Graveborn.  The set symbol is a skull.

As you might guess, you do buried alive shenanigans and whatnot.

It's mono-black, but it has stuff like Crosis and Sphinx of the Steel Wind.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 06, 2011, 06:30:51 PM
AND Terastodon AND Blazing Archon.

Weird. On the other hand, a foil Entomb that won't cost you a kidney!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on December 06, 2011, 07:17:49 PM
And DERPdant Force.

This guy needs some new artwork.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 06, 2011, 07:26:14 PM
Tread lightly, McDohl. Are you casting aspersions on Tony DiTerlizzi's artwork?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: François on December 06, 2011, 07:33:49 PM
Schadenspunkte.

German is [spoiler]almost[/spoiler] the best language.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on December 06, 2011, 07:35:40 PM
No, I think he's got great artwork.

It's just that Verdant Force looks so derpy.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 06, 2011, 07:42:45 PM
Oh.

Well yes, it does.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 06, 2011, 09:42:56 PM
Evil Twin (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=229965) and Shapesharer (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=140200). Would this combo so that the Evil Twin can repeatedly copy/kill any creature on the board?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on December 06, 2011, 09:45:47 PM
unfortunately no. Any time you use the shapesharer ability on it it will lose the ability that lets it kill creatures. You can use it to kill all the shapeshifters by making them copies of evil twin though.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 13, 2011, 07:34:53 AM
 :slow: Hey guys! Planewsalker Points might be a bad idea (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/23253_The_Problem_With_Planeswalker_Points.html)!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 13, 2011, 07:16:35 PM
Yep, that horse is still being whipped.

Kibler's comments at least seem decently reasoned, which is more than could be said about a lot of other articles on the subject.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 13, 2011, 07:58:41 PM
The difference is that this time, Aaron Forsythe agreed (http://twitter.com/mtgaaron).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 13, 2011, 08:39:50 PM
Oh now THAT'S interesting. I mean, Aaron Forsythe had already been making public statements for weeks agreeing with the majority of players that the current PWP system needs to be fixed, but pretty much unqualified agreement with a third-party column is a new step (even if it is someone as well-known as Kibler).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 14, 2011, 06:41:36 PM
Quote
This (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Resources.aspx?x=magic/rules/cardpolicy) just went live:
Quote
Policy Regarding Proxies and Counterfeits

Proxies

Proxies are substitute cards created solely by judges in sanctioned tournaments pursuant to the official tournament rules. These substitutes are allowed when authorized game cards become unplayable during a sanctioned tournament because of damage or excessive wear. Proxies do not include any graphical reproduction of their intended substitutes.

Counterfeits

Counterfeits are copies or reproductions of actual Wizards trading cards, whether or not they are identified as non-genuine. The creation and distribution of counterfeits violate United States and international copyright laws and negatively affects the integrity of Wizards’ trading card games. Counterfeits are strictly prohibited, even for personal, non-commercial use.

I see we're moving closer and closer to the GW business model. This should get interesting.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on December 14, 2011, 07:29:56 PM
what
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 14, 2011, 08:24:33 PM
why
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 14, 2011, 08:38:08 PM
Well, okay, the drama is probably overstated.

What happened was WotC recently busted a bunch of counterfeiters, so they were releasing an update by way or reminder.

The thing is, the policy is very poorly written and makes it look like they could come down on people running ambiguous stuff like ten-proxy vintage tournaments.

The new rules do two things. They give a very narrow "Official WotC definition" of proxy (May ONLY be created by a Judge, ONLY at a tournament, ONLY for the purposes of replacing a worn or problematic card for the duration of that tournament - hell if you go to the actual page it even says you have to replace the proxy with the real card when it's in play on the table).

Then they follow that up with a definition of counterfeit that could easily be read to mean any other time a substitute for a real Magic card is used ("even when they are marked as non-genuine").

Even if that's not what Wizards INTENDS (in fact it probably isn't), it's still what this rule looks like. At least until they issue a clarification. And until they do, at least some store owners will be rightly worried. Why run a 10-proxy tournament when your store might be denied new product? Granted that's a low risk, but it's still a risk that didn't exist before. And given their normal unwillingness to comment on proxies, there's a good possibility they won't clarify the new policy.

I don't think this was really supposed to be a real change of any kind. The new policy isn't realistically going to stop Johnny Scrubbo from photocopying a proxy for his EDH deck - though it might lead to an increase in GW-style whiners at the casual tables. But there's real potential for serious-but-minor unintended consequences.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on December 15, 2011, 07:27:49 AM
Would a proxy count as a "copy or reproduction of actual Wizards trading cards"? I suppose they're a crappy copy, but by that logic, a coffee mug is an incredibly poor reproduction of a Magic card too.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 15, 2011, 08:52:10 AM
Incidentally, have I ever shown you guys the crappiest Demonic Tutor ever?

(http://i.imgur.com/uMkIf.jpg)

Of course, it's nothing compared to Mongrel's "I STEAL MORPHLING" Bribery or my friend's Arcbound Reclaimer that survived a trip through the laundry, but still.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on December 15, 2011, 10:31:16 AM
"Guys, I gotta go, I'm late for Demon Class."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on December 15, 2011, 01:18:19 PM
Hey Mongrel does the top name look Familiar (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dci%2Fsuspended&tablesort=7b)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 15, 2011, 02:14:07 PM
Maybe.... but I can't remember whose name that is.

That's not you is it?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kashan on December 15, 2011, 03:32:13 PM
They banned Bertoncini? Awesome, I was considering posting the blog about his various cheatery exploits on here. Didn't expect the ban to come so quickly.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 15, 2011, 03:39:05 PM
WHO ARE WE TALKING ABOOOOOOOUT
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 15, 2011, 04:35:45 PM
Alex Bertoncini Cheats at SCG Kansas City (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd7cd-K8ImQ#ws)

Well, it's not Envy! But I'm still not sure why Envy thought I'd recognize Bertoncini in particular. Probably something I'm forgetting.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on December 15, 2011, 05:48:36 PM
That video seems like it could totally be an honest mistake, but I guess if this guy is known for doing this a lot then that's less likely.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on December 15, 2011, 06:02:15 PM
This article puts it well: He does look like he's just making "honest mistakes", but they're always beneficial to him somehow.

http://mixedknuts.wordpress.com/2011/12/12/unlocking-the-cheats-of-scg-player-of-the-year-alex-bertoncini/ (http://mixedknuts.wordpress.com/2011/12/12/unlocking-the-cheats-of-scg-player-of-the-year-alex-bertoncini/)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kashan on December 15, 2011, 06:06:23 PM
That video seems like it could totally be an honest mistake, but I guess if this guy is known for doing this a lot then that's less likely.
As noted in the comments section of the blog I saw on this. One of the damning things in this case is that his response to "what turn is it" isn't "what?" or "um... turn 4?", but rather "2 explores." He knows he's cheated, is expecting the question, and has the answer ready to go.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on December 15, 2011, 06:14:25 PM
His twitter now says:

"Quitting magic next year. Looking for people who can help me get on track for a real job. Anyone?"

And he'll probably get a good one too, because this world was made for horrible people.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on December 15, 2011, 06:35:53 PM
That video seems like it could totally be an honest mistake, but I guess if this guy is known for doing this a lot then that's less likely.
As noted in the comments section of the blog I saw on this. One of the damning things in this case is that his response to "what turn is it" isn't "what?" or "um... turn 4?", but rather "2 explores." He knows he's cheated, is expecting the question, and has the answer ready to go.

Well, that's the thing.  If it's turn 3 and you have 5 land out, and someone asks what turn it is, you know exactly why they're asking, and you might as well answer the real question.  Or, what, do you never answer a leading question with the answer to the obvious followup?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 15, 2011, 07:39:59 PM
The guy filming the video is actually trying to point out to the second player that Bertoncheaty just pulled a fast one. He gives him the strongest hint he can without pointing it right out (which would be a rules issue).

Of course I wouldn't come down too hard on the hapless opponent. It's often harder to spot this stuff knee-deep in the middle (see: arguments over instant replay to double-check ref calls in pro sports).

And yes, there have been a long string of events and warnings prior to this.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kashan on December 15, 2011, 08:29:07 PM
That video seems like it could totally be an honest mistake, but I guess if this guy is known for doing this a lot then that's less likely.
As noted in the comments section of the blog I saw on this. One of the damning things in this case is that his response to "what turn is it" isn't "what?" or "um... turn 4?", but rather "2 explores." He knows he's cheated, is expecting the question, and has the answer ready to go.

Well, that's the thing.  If it's turn 3 and you have 5 land out, and someone asks what turn it is, you know exactly why they're asking, and you might as well answer the real question.  Or, what, do you never answer a leading question with the answer to the obvious followup?
Except that it's turn 3 and he has 6 land out and he says it's turn 4, trying to use a quick response of "2 explores" to get out of the situation. Also if it's an accident he shouldn't know it's a leading question, in fact he should be confused as to why he's being asked.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on December 15, 2011, 10:27:21 PM
This is the guy that won the SCG power 9 tourney. By cheating, I just thought it would be recognizable mostly to the community.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 15, 2011, 10:36:24 PM
When you have zero hope of ever going even 3-7 in a tournament, you tend to stop paying attention to the top players.

Anyway, yeah a lot of people are raging now about the guy getting to keep the 10k purse, but what the hell's SCG going to do? Spend $20k suing him to get it back? Good luck with that.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 16, 2011, 08:56:44 PM
When you have zero hope of ever going even 3-7 in a tournament, you tend to stop paying attention to the top players.

Anyway, yeah a lot of people are raging now about the guy getting to keep the 10k purse, but what the hell's SCG going to do? Spend $20k suing him to get it back? Good luck with that.

Actually... (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/standard/23283_Statement_from_SCG_President_Pete_Hoefling_Regardi
ng_Alex_Bertoncini.html)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 16, 2011, 09:00:28 PM
Oh yeah, saw that change this afternoon. Seems like Hoefling wasn't content to let things stand.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Defenestration on December 18, 2011, 09:51:37 PM
http://magiccardswithgooglyeyes.tumblr.com/ (http://magiccardswithgooglyeyes.tumblr.com/)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 18, 2011, 10:15:59 PM
I think that makes three times that's been posted here.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Kashan on December 18, 2011, 10:23:25 PM
I think that makes three times that's been posted here.

Only 3 times? We're slacking off.

http://magiccardswithgooglyeyes.tumblr.com/ (http://magiccardswithgooglyeyes.tumblr.com/)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Defenestration on December 18, 2011, 10:29:55 PM
I think that makes three times that's been posted here.
:(
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on December 19, 2011, 02:55:19 AM
When you have zero hope of ever going even 3-7 in a tournament, you tend to stop paying attention to the top players.

Anyway, yeah a lot of people are raging now about the guy getting to keep the 10k purse, but what the hell's SCG going to do? Spend $20k suing him to get it back? Good luck with that.

Actually... (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/standard/23283_Statement_from_SCG_President_Pete_Hoefling_Regarding_Alex_Bertoncini.html)

buh - wha - can they -do- that?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 19, 2011, 10:07:42 AM
They hadn't actually paid it out yet. So, logistically it's easy.

Bertoncini may try and contest it. I mean, you wouldn't think so, but it's over $15k in cash and prizes, so you never know.

It's anybody's idea how such a claim would hold up in a court of law though... TA? Paco? Any idea of what would apply? I'm guessing Bertoncini can suck a duck because the prizes and such are ultimately awarded at SCG's discretion? But that's just a rough guess - I don't really have a fram of reference there.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on December 19, 2011, 11:34:04 AM
My gut would be that if that policy wasn't in place when the tournament went down, then trying to apply it retroactively wouldn't fly.  Especially if there's an entry fee, there's a pretty clear contract in place where the winner is owed the prize.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 19, 2011, 11:47:10 AM
Pretty sure there's some sort of clause in the contest rules that allows for this.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 19, 2011, 03:53:52 PM
I guess we'll see if he tries to fight the decision. Can't say as either party really has my sympathies. Hilarity awaits.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 20, 2011, 01:04:30 AM
Ohhhhhh man, WotC just took a hilariously giant dump on the rules:

Quote
OPTIONAL ABILITIES
Traditionally, some abilities include the word ‘may’ as part of their text, indicating that their effect is optional. At
Competitive and Professional REL, some additional triggered abilities and enters-the-battlefield replacement effects
are considered optional. The player is not required to follow the instruction when the ability resolves, and if the
ability is forgotten it will not retroactively be applied. An optional ability does one or more of the following things,
and nothing else:
• Gains you life or causes an opponent to lose life.
• Puts cards from your library, graveyard, or exile zones into your hand or onto the battlefield. This includes
drawing cards.
• Causes opponents to put objects from their hand or the battlefield into the library, graveyard or exile.
• Puts a permanent into play under your control or gives you control of a permanent.
• Puts +x/+x counters, or counters linked to a beneficial effect, on a permanent you control.
• Gives +x/+x or a beneficial ability to a target creature you control.
• Exiles, damages, destroys, taps, or gives -x/-x to an opponent's target permanent. If the ability could target
your own permanents, it is not optional unless that ability could target an opponent.
• Gives you additional turns or phases.
• Counters a spell or conditionally counters a spell, but only when cast by an opponent.
Abilities that trigger at the same point in each players turn and do something to “that player” (e.g. Howling Mine)
are never optional.
This list is comprehensive. An ability that does not fit all of the criteria above is not optional, even if it is to the
benefit of the player controlling the ability. Similarly, an optional ability is always optional, even if it would be to
the detriment of the player for it to happen


Basically, a whole slew of old abilities which were not optional in the past are now optional so long as they meet the kludged together list above (example: Necroplasm) - but ONLY at higher rules enforcement level events. Cards will actually be functionally different at different REL.

Jesus Christ, whose brainchild was THIS mess?

Oh and reminding your opponent of their missed optional triggers is no longer mandatory (which was the case for the first dozen+ years of the game's existence anyway).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on December 20, 2011, 04:45:28 AM
So cards like Scute Mob where you HAVE to get +1/+1 counters, you no longer HAVE to get +1/+1 counters?

God, this is idiotic.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 20, 2011, 06:37:02 AM
Wait, huh? I don't get it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 20, 2011, 08:08:03 AM
So why'd they ban Wild Nacatl and not Tarmogoyf?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 22, 2011, 05:52:28 PM
Looks like the recent rules changes are not going to be implemented after all (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7712574)

Seems they're pretty much just going to be go back to the old days of "You are responsible for your own triggers, nub", which is fine.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 22, 2011, 10:16:20 PM
Oh and they're also fixing pretty much all the complaints anybody had about the Organized Play clusterfuck. (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/other/122311a)

Mostly moot to a player of my stunted stature, but it's nice to see them get things right! Twice in one day even!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 22, 2011, 10:17:47 PM
meh
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 09, 2012, 05:45:53 AM
Dark Ascension spoilers (https://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/darkascension/cig) start today.

(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/dka/3zfb3i9bkw_en.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on January 11, 2012, 04:10:37 PM
(http://www.magicspoiler.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Sorin-Lord-of-Innistrad-Dark-Ascension-Spoiler.jpg)

...lol what

I can't wait to see what Inkwell Looter's gonna do for Sorin's emblems.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 11, 2012, 04:35:06 PM
Saw that. 

Play analysis:

He's a good card, but not good enough to carry a deck on his own (which is fine!) and B/W is not a traditionally well-supported colour archetype (in fact the only worse off colour pair is maybe R/U).

If a good B/W(/x) aggro or midrange deck comes along, he's a shoe-in, but he probably won't force the creation of such a deck on his own.

Fluff analysis:

So Sorin shows up at the Eldrazi thing and now came home to Innistrad... to save it? (No really, it turns out he made Avacyn to keep the world balanced while he was away). So is Sorin Markov the multiverse's greatest hero? Hah, what a gas.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on January 11, 2012, 06:08:50 PM
He's also transforming into John Travolta.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 11, 2012, 06:30:20 PM
He's a good card, but not good enough to carry a deck on his own (which is fine!) and B/W is not a traditionally well-supported colour archetype (in fact the only worse off colour pair is maybe R/U).

If that's so, then the card probably won't be that expensive, and it might make a good addition to my EDH deck. :profit:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 11, 2012, 07:10:34 PM
Eh, he's a playable planeswalker. He'll hang around $25-$30 for a good while. At least until the next set comes out. Retarded-idiot preorders are only $50 though, which is a decent sign (Elspeth 2.0 and Koth are two examples of cards that started at that price. They're now in the $15 range).

Of course even Tezzeret 2.0 eventually dropped to $15-$20, so if you wait long enough things will improve.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 11, 2012, 10:03:56 PM
This will only be funny if you read the silly Sorin fluff article, but it's too good not to share.

Quote from: Potato
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no vampire's grandson,
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no prodigal one, oh yeah

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on January 16, 2012, 06:34:19 AM
Uh, Mikaeus?  You ain't looking so good, pal...

(http://www.magicspoiler.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Mikaeus-the-Unhallowed-Dark-Ascension-Spoiler.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on January 16, 2012, 07:10:45 AM
What happens if a creature has both undying and persist?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on January 16, 2012, 07:30:25 AM
Is the ruling of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters mean mutual annihilation?

121.3. If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it as a state-based action, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it. See rule 704.

Yes.

So, it comes back in to play, sees that it has both a +1/+1 and -1/-1 counter, and they annihilate each other.  In essence, you have a creature that comes back from the graveyard immediately
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on January 16, 2012, 07:32:27 AM
Here's the rub: No creatures with Persist are Humans.

Sure, you could Xenograft and call humans, though.
(http://magiccards.info/scans/en/nph/51.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on January 16, 2012, 07:52:51 AM
Uh, I think you should read Mikaeus again.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 16, 2012, 08:14:48 AM
Uh, Mikaeus?  You ain't looking so good, pal...

(http://www.magicspoiler.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Mikaeus-the-Unhallowed-Dark-Ascension-Spoiler.jpg)

"It's uh, nothing (hack, retch). Just a little seasonal allergies."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on January 16, 2012, 09:05:37 AM
Oh, derp.  Non-humans.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 16, 2012, 09:19:35 AM
He's a good card, but not good enough to carry a deck on his own (which is fine!) and B/W is not a traditionally well-supported colour archetype (in fact the only worse off colour pair is maybe R/U).

If a good B/W(/x) aggro or midrange deck comes along, he's a shoe-in, but he probably won't force the creation of such a deck on his own.

(http://i.imgur.com/LqZSf.jpg)

GODDAMMIT
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 16, 2012, 09:33:30 AM
That might do the trick, but the deck's gonna need ace creatures before it becomes "a thing". That possessed girl transform card is pretty solid there, but I'm not sure what else might fit.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 18, 2012, 09:21:36 AM
Quote from: Sexton
Based on the article here (http://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/09/horde-magic-a-new-way-to-play-magic-and-survive-zombie-invasions/), this seems like a really fun casual format, with a lot of room for innovation and freshness. The basic idea is that you get a stack of 100 cards, about 60% of which are tokens, and the rest are spells. That's the Horde. It's an AI with no decisions to make, and 2-4 players can fight against it using EDH decks, Standard decks, draft decks, whatever. Each turn, it flips cards until it hits a non-token, then puts the tokens into play, then casts the spell it hit. All of its tokens have haste, and must attack. Players share a life total, 2HG-style. Horde wins when the players life runs out. Players win with the Horde's library is empty and it has no threats left on the board, so players are basically out to survive. They can counter attack or burn the horde, though, and doing so results in milling cards off the Horde deck. That lets you balance against the power of the decks the players are using by modifying how many cards the Horde starts with. That's basically it.

The guy that invented it used Zombies, and spells like Bad Moon, Plague Wind, and so on. I'm thinking that all Zombie tokens isn't much variety, so I'm going to build one that's more like a dungeon crawl, with a variety of monsters, and lots of Trap cards from Zendikar, stuff like that. I'll probably balance it to face Cube sealed decks, since that's what I tend to have on me.

What do you think of this format? When you want to play something casual, having it be a co-op format rather than head-to-head seems great to me.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on January 18, 2012, 10:01:08 AM
That actually seems pretty fun!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on January 18, 2012, 07:34:47 PM
Hmm!  I think I'm gonna try and get a game of that off the ground over at Talking Time!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 22, 2012, 10:20:11 PM
Full set spoiler's up on The Mothership.

Loved this comment:

Quote from: GiantSpider
if anybody wants to write a Women's Studies thesis, this will do the trick:

(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/dka/ph0vj1kchc_en.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on January 23, 2012, 05:11:49 AM
Ohhhhhh man.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 23, 2012, 07:01:32 AM
Is it my imagination, or are there a lot of mythics in this set?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 23, 2012, 07:36:38 AM
And they're alllllllllllllllll terriblle!

Except Sorin. And I guess the green undying beastie and the Falkenrath Aristocrat. But those last two are not-super impressive and even Sorin is not crazy. Like he's good enough that he'll probably see Modern play, but that's not actually guaranteed!

From a T1/Legacy/Modern point of view this set is a real stinker. But I guess that saves me money. Back to chasing Snapcaster Mages!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 23, 2012, 08:28:12 AM
Speaking of which, I gave a friend of mine a few packs for her Christmas present. She got an Olivia, a Snapcaster and a Mayor of Avabruck. I told her to not trade Olivia or Tiago, especially not to the guy whom she works with that thinks Eron the Relentless is a $20 card.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 23, 2012, 08:42:59 AM
Man, the list of what we DIDN'T get out of Innistrad was just brutal. Out of about 3 boxes, we managed to get not one Liliana, Snapcaster, Olivia, Geist of St Traft, Garruk, a whole slew of smaller but good rares (like Gavony Township) or any card above $3 for that matter. We usually have terrible luck with our purchases, but that was seriously the worst we've had in a long while.

We know odds are odds, but Magic packs are weighted a LITTLE better than lottery tickets [joke about Worldwake goes here], so you usually get SOMETHING even if it's not the something you want.

NOT BITTER.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: LaserBeing on January 26, 2012, 06:06:43 PM
Quote from: GiantSpider
if anybody wants to write a Women's Studies thesis, this will do the trick:

(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/dka/ph0vj1kchc_en.jpg)

Proposal of Darkness (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sQju88FP9I#)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 16, 2012, 06:41:37 PM
Hitler Learns the Results of Finkel vs Kibler (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkeIgxxbc7s#ws)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on February 16, 2012, 06:49:22 PM
god that no block was the sickest thing I've ever seen
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on February 23, 2012, 10:11:41 PM
Trade fishing.

Anybody want:

Foil Spanish Huntmaster of the Fells
Foil Russian Vorapede

???

(Not for free, obviously :P )
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: on February 24, 2012, 03:05:42 AM
I'll give you 2 refined.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 24, 2012, 06:34:17 AM
Trade fishing.

Anybody want:

Foil Spanish Huntmaster of the Fells
Foil Russian Vorapede

???

(Not for free, obviously :P )

I'm still waiting for you to get back to me re: Flusterstorm/Chaos Warp/FTKavu
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on February 24, 2012, 07:27:27 AM
I'll give you 2 refined.

Dohohohoho

Trade fishing.

Anybody want:

Foil Spanish Huntmaster of the Fells
Foil Russian Vorapede

???

(Not for free, obviously :P )

I'm still waiting for you to get back to me re: Flusterstorm/Chaos Warp/FTKavu

We don't have much on your list at the moment. I've been fishing around but trading 'round here is such a pain in the ass.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 28, 2012, 04:55:10 PM
We don't have much on your list at the moment. I've been fishing around but trading 'round here is such a pain in the ass.

Well, let me know. Primeval Titan's experienced yet another price hike. I'm surprised they don't just print a judge foil and be done with it.

Also, does Blood Moon (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=83008) override Urborg, T of Y (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=131005)?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on February 28, 2012, 05:00:00 PM
yes
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 29, 2012, 06:20:26 AM
FTV: Realms (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/918)

oh boy, lands

I'm thinking the preview image is Glacial Chasm (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=184631).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on February 29, 2012, 09:00:11 AM
You and just about everybody else.

We've been guessing the possible contents elsewhere. We think Karakas may be the top contender for "The Money Card", only it's banned in EDH (which seems to matter), so that may effect things. It still might be Karakas anyway though.

Also, Ancient Tomb is almost certainly a great choice. I don't have any proof it'll be in, but I'd bet money it'll be there.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 29, 2012, 09:33:13 AM
You and just about everybody else.

We've been guessing the possible contents elsewhere. We think Karakas may be the top contender for "The Money Card", only it's banned in EDH (which seems to matter), so that may effect things. It still might be Karakas anyway though.

Could be Wasteland! Worth about the same, but not banned in EDH, and it is pretty darn infamous, even though you can get just about the same result with Tectonic Edge.

It's too bad that it probably won't include any of the shock/fetch/lands, because it would have to include ALL OF THEM. We might get a new City of Brass though!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on February 29, 2012, 10:56:20 AM
Probably not Wasteland if only because it's had so many promos (though those are all high-value and fairly rare).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 29, 2012, 11:12:13 AM
Hmmm, if that's true, we're probably not getting Coffers either.

Maybe Rainbow Vale!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 05, 2012, 11:28:02 AM
(http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/226/9/2/sparks__018_catpocalypse_by_sparksthecomic-d46hupw.png)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on March 05, 2012, 12:07:42 PM
I briefly considered turnning Jor Kadeen in to Kemba.

But then it wouldn't be half as endearing as it is already.

Hey Buge.  It's Morphin' Time.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 08, 2012, 09:53:49 AM
(http://s3.gatheringmagic.com/uploads/2012/03/07/new_foils.jpg)

AW HELL NAW
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 08, 2012, 10:22:51 AM
Oh, better pics. Neat.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 08, 2012, 11:10:26 AM
I think we can blame the Command Tower foil on Sheldon.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 08, 2012, 11:29:23 AM
I'm not complaining! One more Judge foil I have absolutely zero interest in acquiring!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 08, 2012, 11:47:50 AM
I predict it will ironically end up the more expensive and scarce than the Sneak Attack.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Defenestration on March 12, 2012, 04:01:38 PM
(http://nerdapproved.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/magic-rage-quit.gif?cb5e28)

I can't stop watching it, it's kind of hypnotizing. I kind of want to see something as dramatic as a table flip in real life.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 12, 2012, 06:23:26 PM
Full video:

Francis Plays Magic the Gathering (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYuF3T7s7XY#ws)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on March 12, 2012, 07:05:11 PM
What a damn overact, but still, kinda funny.  I raged at FNM from time to time, and seen rage, but I've never seen it get to tableflip rage.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 12, 2012, 08:08:13 PM
"So do I win?"
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 14, 2012, 06:50:49 PM
(http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/353/a/b/my_little_praetor__elesh_norn__grand_cenobite_by_shinobiferret-d4jjvn0.png)

There is a point where this needs to stop and we've clearly crossed it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 20, 2012, 07:34:50 AM
Intangible Virtue and Lingering Souls are banned in block. (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/187a)

So how come Wizards is getting so twitchy with the banhammer?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 20, 2012, 07:41:45 AM
Because every time they've dawdled in the past, their sales figures have crashed (and taken several seasons to recover). They used to try and give the environment time to answer things on it's own, but money talks.

That said, it's Block Constructed, almost nobody's going to care.

EDIT:

What I think is more interesting is how we've come full circle. A long time ago they used to push a set theme, but always include a hoser (usually some kind of cheap artifact) for that theme within the same set - a sort of built-in safety valve. Then they decided that was silly and that they shouldn't be hosing their own creations and stopped doing that. Now, after several years of ban events and vast amounts of tournament data, they are once again opting to include accessible theme-hosers (see Grafdigger's Cage) in the same set as the theme.

I just find it a bit funny that at one point they understood this on a gut level, but dismissed it, only to have it beaten into them by overwhelming hard evidence. 
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 27, 2012, 04:12:17 PM
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ooze-on-first-1/ (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ooze-on-first-1/)

This has to be the best deck title ever.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 28, 2012, 12:34:39 PM
http://maxovahra.com/?lang=en (http://maxovahra.com/?lang=en)

This is something else.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 02, 2012, 09:24:05 AM
(http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/daily/mm/mm188_lenticularKitty.gif)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ted Belmont on April 02, 2012, 04:22:40 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/wsC7r.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 02, 2012, 07:48:58 PM
Gothy!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 02, 2012, 09:28:01 PM
Guessing fake so far. Why crop the art in such an awkward way?

Also, spoilers don't start until the 9th, as per an official WotC statement.

EDIT: Oh hey, it's actually real.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on April 07, 2012, 01:51:14 PM
New mechanics in Avacyn Restored include miracles and soulbond. Five cards were previewed at the panel—they're sure to be posted in the usual locations—but none of that matters compared to the closing announcement.

(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r40/jsnlxndrlv/returntoravnica.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 07, 2012, 02:04:03 PM
Oh man, TRIPLE CROSS.

(It was originally thought we were returning to Rav, then this was denied, now it's back on, I see).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 07, 2012, 03:10:02 PM
Get off the poster, Jace. Nobody likes you anymore.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 07, 2012, 04:15:47 PM
JtMS still over 50 bucks, science disagrees.

I never got to play Ravnica the first time around.  I'm so boners right now.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 07, 2012, 04:23:22 PM
Oh and BY THE WAY:

A bunch of other stuff. First, the Avacyn Boosters!

(http://i42.tinypic.com/34ihdp2.png)

Check out the middle dude! Best guesses is that he's one of the two new Planeswalkers (the other images are Avacyn and Griselbrand, and two of the three Legendary multicoloured "Flight" angels that are coming - basically Avacyn's henchgals).

So a smartassed devil planeswalker! His clothes make me think he might just be this kinda tricky imp dude rather than a true devil/demon - almost a travelling con artist type, scammin' dudes all over the multiverse.

Which would actually make for a pretty damned awesome walker character.

And some more AVR spoilers:

Quote
Silverblade Paladin - 1WW, 2/2, Soulbond (You may pair this creature with another unpaired creature when either enters the battlefield. They remain paired as long as you control both of them). As long as Silverblade Paladin is paired with another creature, both creatures have double strike.

Demonlord of Ashmouth! 2BB, Flying, Undying, 5/4, when enters the battlefield, exile it unless you sacrifice a creature.

Sigarda, Host of Herons - 2GWW - Flying, Hexproof, 5/5, spells and abilities your opponents control can't cause you to sacrifice permanents

Restoration Angel - 3W, Flash, Flying, 3/4, When Restoration Angel enters the battlefield, you may exile target non-angel creature you control then return that creature to the battlefield under your control.

And:

(https://p.twimg.com/Ap6FaMUCEAQ888g.jpg)

Haha, holy shit. Abusable as fuck with Top/Brainstorm. Look out Legacy/Modern!

And one more bombshell:

(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129772&d=1333763090)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 07, 2012, 04:24:55 PM
Oh and I am offering the following challenge:

$50 says we see some shockduals reprinted before the year is out.

A further $25 says we see them in M13.

To be fair... nobody should really take those bets: The shockduals are badly needed for Modern, will almost certainly be needed for Rav 2, definitely belong in the first core set to ever have gold cards, and are well overdue for reprinting.

My big hope is that they get printed in M13 rather than Rav 2, because having the Shocks be Ravnica's marquee cards AGAIN would be INCREDIBLY, UNBREABLY LAME. Like... they were made with generic names just so they could be reprinted in any set and they really need some nice, updated, non-urban art. Why wait ten years only to throw them in Ravnica again?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 07, 2012, 04:43:58 PM
Perhaps Ally-shocks in the core set, and enemy-shocks in the actual set?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on April 07, 2012, 05:10:11 PM
Yeah, nobody should take you up on those.

However, the subject of the  shocklands brings up the big question: how the hell do they go back to Ravnica while satisfying everybody's expectations? On the one hand, Ravnica's synonymous with the guilds, and players new and old will be looking forward to guild content. The block has an enormous reputation to live up to, and everybody expects more gold cards to meet or exceed that reputation.

On the other hand, the guildpact was dissolved. We've done the whole 4 guilds/3 guilds/3 guilds thing, so like Scars of Mirrodin, RTR will have some new thematic or structural quirk to distinguish it. So, how do they twist the formula without trodding on lore or abandoning what made Ravnica great?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 07, 2012, 05:11:12 PM
Perhaps Ally-shocks in the core set, and enemy-shocks in the actual set?

That seems like it would be really lopsided for draft. I suspect the old 4 colour-pairs, 3 colour-pairs, 3 colour-pairs structure will return (not for sure, but there's a pretty good chance) only in a totally different order.

EDIT: Haha new post.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 07, 2012, 05:31:33 PM
Oh and one other pic, a crucial elaboration on the first spoiled image:

(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129789&d=1333837306)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 07, 2012, 05:50:23 PM
...Mizzet.  FUCK.

RED/BLUE JACE INCOMING.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on April 07, 2012, 06:17:00 PM
Why make a red-blue Jace, when they could finally make the planeswalker Niv-Mizzet they hinted about seven years ago, but didn't yet have the card type to manifest?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 07, 2012, 06:18:19 PM
because Jace Sells.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on April 07, 2012, 06:37:06 PM
I'm not contesting the presence of Jace. He's obviously there. I just doubt he's going U-R when they could just use Ral Zarek, Dack Fayden, or Niv-Mizzet himself.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 07, 2012, 06:51:38 PM
(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129789&d=1333837306)

Five seconds later...

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_fBTUQv--Co/TydaEVNdv6I/AAAAAAAAArE/JkloVwpl5Q0/s1600/shoes_on_fire.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 07, 2012, 07:25:52 PM
I'm not contesting the presence of Jace. He's obviously there. I just doubt he's going U-R when they could just use Ral Zarek, Dack Fayden, or Niv-Mizzet himself.

Agree. We have no less than THREE possible R/U Walkers. Jace may possibly be bi, but he's not going bi-coloured anytime soon.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 07, 2012, 07:44:40 PM
Niv-Mizzet would be pretty rad.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Beat Bandit on April 08, 2012, 05:40:40 AM
Jace may possibly be bi, but he's not going bi-coloured anytime soon.
Out of context that is the most crotchety old man thing you have ever said
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 08, 2012, 08:13:50 AM
You know what's hilarious? When you read the Wiki entry for jace, it's like every black, blue or red female planeswalker they've got (with a card or no) throws themselves at Jace.

So... Jace is basically the protagonist of a Harem Anime?

Somehow that fits.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ted Belmont on April 08, 2012, 08:34:44 AM
You know what's hilarious? When you read the Wiki entry for jace, it's like every black, blue or red female planeswalker they've got (with a card or no) throws themselves at Jace.

So... Jace is basically Lottel?

Somehow that fits.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 08, 2012, 08:39:25 AM
You know what's hilarious? When you read the Wiki entry for jace, it's like every black, blue or red female planeswalker they've got (with a card or no) throws themselves at Jace.

He's also brooding, secretive, has "unique" abilities and wears a hooded cloak.

So... Jace is basically the wish-fulfillment self-insert character of any given fandom?

Somehow that fits.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 08, 2012, 09:10:38 AM
So... Jace is basically the wish-fulfillment self-insert character of any given fandom?

Somehow that fits.

Well, this is correct of course. It's just not as funny when put that way.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 08, 2012, 10:16:32 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/LdnTe.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 08, 2012, 10:37:38 AM
"Professor Demon is not amused by this paper."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 08, 2012, 10:42:31 AM
(http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/356/b/6/mtg___dazzled___pretty_woman_by_polishtamales-d4juv9q.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 08, 2012, 11:32:54 AM
Dyin' over here
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 08, 2012, 12:09:12 PM
Ah!  So THAT'S what's under Olivia's dress.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 08, 2012, 08:42:05 PM
HEY! HEY EDH! YEAH, YOU WITH THE 100-CARD DECK!

(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/avr/kxnlgrvj2f_en.jpg)

And:

(http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/daily/mm/mm190_card.jpg)

Earlier on, there was some argument over the 5-damage Miracle card... that it wouldn't be good enough for Legacy, because even if you have Brainstorm/Top, the constraints of setting things up so you draw the Miracle card in the exact way you need to is awkward enough that you can't just ignore that drawback. It was generally agreed that Miracle cards are probably quite a bit more restrictive than say, Madness cards and also that you will be stuck hardcasting the things a non-zero amount of times. So I said that the adoption of Miracle cards would depend on just how ridiculous they were.

WELL. HOW ABOUT THAT.  :whoops:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on April 09, 2012, 05:49:59 AM
Extra turns are overrated.

(...usually.)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 09, 2012, 06:05:51 AM
REV UP THOSE TOPS
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 09, 2012, 06:40:10 AM
Anybody got any extra Personal Tutors?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 09, 2012, 08:22:31 AM
...

Why is Personal Tutor spiking in price but Mystical Tutor isn't?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on April 09, 2012, 08:31:23 AM
Duels of the Planeswalkers 2012 has such hilarious safeguards to bullshit.

In the game, there's a Blue/Black/white artifact deck that includes Mirrorworks (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=214068). Very quickly I realized "Well, I'll just play Archenemy with my two allies using identical decks. It'll be great.

However, they saw through my bullshit: It only triggers off your own cards.
::(:

But this does make me want to work on my own artifact deck anew. Haven't done that for a while. I like to build my artifact deck around utter and complete shenanigans - every card should synergize with multiple cards. For example: Tinker a Epochrasite (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=136143) to bring in a Master Transmuter. Master Transmuter switches now-0-cost artifacts due to Sculptors, etc etc.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 09, 2012, 09:02:31 AM
...

Why is Personal Tutor spiking in price but Mystical Tutor isn't?

Because Mystical Tutor is banned in Legacy.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ziiro on April 09, 2012, 09:05:36 AM
Yet.

 :whoops:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 09, 2012, 09:21:14 AM
You mean Personal Tutor ISN'T banned yet, I presume?

And yeah I agree that's a possibility now!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 09, 2012, 03:12:59 PM
Duels of the Planeswalkers 2012 has such hilarious safeguards to bullshit.

In the game, there's a Blue/Black/white artifact deck that includes Mirrorworks (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=214068). Very quickly I realized "Well, I'll just play Archenemy with my two allies using identical decks. It'll be great.

However, they saw through my bullshit: It only triggers off your own cards.
::(:

But this does make me want to work on my own artifact deck anew. Haven't done that for a while. I like to build my artifact deck around utter and complete shenanigans - every card should synergize with multiple cards. For example: Tinker a Epochrasite (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=136143) to bring in a Master Transmuter. Master Transmuter switches now-0-cost artifacts due to Sculptors, etc etc.

You could do what I did with one of my artifact decks: only have three artifacts, two of which are (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/mbs/99.jpg)

The third is a Darksteel relic, and the whole mess revolves around tutoring up the relic with Trinket Mage, and then casting Shape Anew on the Relic.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 09, 2012, 08:10:17 PM
(http://static.starcitygames.com/www/images/article/04102012chapinangelofjubilation.jpg)

HEY LEGACY, HOW YOU DOIN'? NICE FETCHLANDS YOU GOT THERE.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c224/duso2/troll.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 11, 2012, 05:48:23 PM
(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129960&stc=1&d=1334169280)

That flavour text.

That fucking flavour text.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 11, 2012, 05:53:02 PM
Nyah nyah nyah.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 11, 2012, 07:13:37 PM
Hello, Glissa's new best friend!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 11, 2012, 11:10:53 PM
On the MTG site I go to, we've made fun of the hilarious decline in WotC ability to write flavour text for a couple years now, but man the flavour text in this set is UNREAL BAD:

(http://i.imgur.com/Qv6a5.jpg?1)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 12, 2012, 04:51:58 AM
Main Entry:   rest
Part of Speech:   verb
Definition:   be calm; sleep
Synonyms:   be at ease, be comfortable, breathe, compose oneself, doze, dream, drowse, ease off, ease up, idle, laze, lean, let down, let up, lie by, lie down, lie still, loaf, loll, lounge, nap, nod, put feet up, recline, refresh oneself, relax, repose, sit down, slack, slack off, slacken, slumber, snooze, spell, stretch out, take a break, take a nap, take five, take it easy, take life easy, take ten, take time out, unbend, unlax, unwind, wind down
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ted Belmont on April 12, 2012, 05:06:13 AM
Maybe she's the Roadblock of Avacyn's crew.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 12, 2012, 08:18:00 AM
Here's something better: a new blue planeswalker (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/td/190)!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on April 12, 2012, 09:04:26 AM
holy shit it's not jace
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 12, 2012, 09:09:09 AM
Oh yeah, we went over her last night (*rimshot*). She's uh... not very good at all.  :/

The second ability wants you to play aggro (or have a high number of mana dorks - note that it says target player, not target oppponent), but she's really built for a slow classically controlling style of deck. Which hasn't truly existed in a long time.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 12, 2012, 10:28:19 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/vDNHH.png)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 12, 2012, 07:54:54 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/tIbD0.jpg)

welp
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 12, 2012, 08:20:07 PM
He. Fucking. Stinks.

>:((((((((((((((((((((

MAGE RAGE

Specifically, red mage rage. That's fully FIVE mono-red planeswalkers, none of whom has ever seen more play than a 1-2 splash in standard.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on April 12, 2012, 08:58:26 PM
Pretty decent in a flashback-centric strategy, though.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Beat Bandit on April 13, 2012, 04:04:25 AM
I'dunno, but gaining control of all creatures and a guaranteed attack with them doesn't seem like the most horrible.

Plus the had-based damage seems pretty much like they just wanted a counter to Tamiyo.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 13, 2012, 05:22:36 AM
I'dunno, but gaining control of all creatures and a guaranteed attack with them doesn't seem like the most horrible.

Yeah, it is a good ability... but you have draw/discard at least four times to get to it, assuming any opponent lets him live that long.

That's fully FIVE mono-red planeswalkers, none of whom has ever seen more play than a 1-2 splash in standard.

They need to make Chandra, the Fire Sculptor or something.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 13, 2012, 06:12:55 AM
Here's the breakdown.

The first ability is card parity, but it most certainly not a looter ability. For the ability to be good, you need to have a deck that really wants stuff in the yard, doesn't have access to good dredge cards (or other more effective yard-fillers), AND which doesn't care too much about the quality of cards in your hand.

The second ability is Sudden Impact. Which was a bad card even back in 1994, when it was called Storm Seeker (though Storm Seeker did get a tiny amount of play by virtue of being green direct damage). Worse yet, Sudden Impact may be a mediocre card (at best) on it's own, but it sure as hell gets worse when your opponent has three turns warning that it's coming.

As for the third ability, well, if your opponent has enough creatures to make it worthwhile, then devil-boy here probably ain't living long enough for you to get there anyway.

If he sees play ANYWHERE it's because of the first ability and the first ability only. The fact that you'll occasionally be able to cash in for 1-4 points of damage is a spoonful of gravy, nothing more.

To be fair, I wasn't hoping this particular guy would be a great burn card. But I was hoping he'd be cool and tricksy. And be decent enough for play in SOMETHING.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 13, 2012, 06:40:08 AM
It's funny. If they'd made it "Discard a card, then draw a card" I could see about three different uses for him. As it is, the ability is shaky and unreliable.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 13, 2012, 07:06:44 AM
If the first ability was a genuine loot ability (either draw, then discard, or discard then draw), then he'd have been amazing.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ted Belmont on April 13, 2012, 07:12:25 AM

As for the third ability, well, if your opponent has enough creatures to make it worthwhile, then devil-boy here probably ain't living long enough for you to get there anyway.


Plus, isn't burning your opponent's creatures to death one of the basic tenets of red? Ideally, your opponent shouldn't even HAVE that many creatures out. This one feels more like it should be on a Green, or maybe G/W or G/U planeswalker.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 13, 2012, 07:23:26 AM
If the first ability was a genuine loot ability (either draw, then discard, or discard then draw), then he'd have been amazing.

Silly Mongrel. You can't have amazing cards in Red. That gives people the idea that red is playable!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 13, 2012, 07:48:23 AM

As for the third ability, well, if your opponent has enough creatures to make it worthwhile, then devil-boy here probably ain't living long enough for you to get there anyway.


Plus, isn't burning your opponent's creatures to death one of the basic tenets of red? Ideally, your opponent shouldn't even HAVE that many creatures out. This one feels more like it should be on a Green, or maybe G/W or G/U planeswalker.

Nahhh, the "temporarily gain control" is a very clearly red ability. There's easily a dozen or so cards that reinforce that theme and there's always one in the core set.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ted Belmont on April 13, 2012, 08:08:17 AM
Huh. Neat! :themoreyouknow:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Beat Bandit on April 13, 2012, 08:12:53 AM
Notably I don't know anything about this set, but I hold out hope for a potential blue/red deck that keeps the enemy line tapped and direct damage off him while you count turns to victory.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 13, 2012, 08:35:55 AM
Speeeeaaaaaaking Red/Blue cards...

(http://i40.tinypic.com/smzyo0.jpg)

I came.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 13, 2012, 08:43:45 AM
Amazing. An enemy-colour land that outclasses a planeswalker.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 13, 2012, 09:44:02 AM
I forget if I've posted about it here or not (I think so?), but I know I've ranted about it elsewhere: I have a longstanding beef with just how awful red/blue cards have been as compared to every other colour pair*.

This doesn't quite make up for 15 years of neglect, but it sure goes a long way towards righting that wrong. The art's even really nice! Holy crap! The flavour text is unintentionally hilarious (I am seeing a pattern here), but man, I am NOT complaining.

* Someone I know joked that Wizards may have finally realized this when they built the modo cube and discovered themselves that holy fuck there's nothing to put in for R/U.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on April 14, 2012, 06:28:25 AM
If the first ability was a genuine loot ability (either draw, then discard, or discard then draw), then he'd have been amazing.

Too bad, because Wizards has decided that "draw then discard at random" will be Red's card-drawing from now on.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 14, 2012, 07:42:26 AM
Not quite. The new red looting ability is supposed to "Discard, then draw", which is actually good and very red-flavoured. The idea is that you take a risk and discard without knowing what you'll get, but the upside is that if you manage to empty your hand, those draws will actually be all gas.

Tibalt is just random discard because if he had the true new red looting ability he'd zoom from "terrible" to "way too good".
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 14, 2012, 09:38:22 AM
from "terrible" to "way too good".

That's red's philosophy in a nut shell.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on April 15, 2012, 04:03:20 PM
I remember waaaaaay back when I first started playing MTG, I liked red the most because it was direct, easy to understand shit. You set shit on fire and put down goblins and dragons.

Then later when I got into constructed I built tournament quality decks and such, but none of them were ever mono-red. Even the decks that did have red IN THEM basically only splashed it for a few key cards. Sure, I made a goblin deck just like everyone else for fun, but it wasn't playable in a tournament because you could hose it down so easily. I had a mono green aggro tourney deck that worked pretty well (thanks to Rancor, mostly) and a mono black that worked very well (thanks to shadow and cursed scroll).

My favorite color is now black because I like the versatility it has. I've always liked how it was a sort of twisted reflection of white's shit: Instead of disenchant, you got Duress. Instead of fast mana efficient 2/2s with first strike, you got fast mana efficient 2/2s that damaged you.

Eh. I'm rambling. I haven't played MTG in years and years, but I thought maybe when they reprinted Lightning Bolt that red would finally make a comeback. I'm sad to see it hasn't. My god, that planeswalker sucks dick.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 15, 2012, 05:14:56 PM
Wel, red has it's role here and there, and monored burn will always be an archetype in older formats.

In fact monored burn is great for two reasons: It's intuitive and stratightforward and it's generally very cheap - which means it's a useful "gateway drug" to older formats and will continue to get a card now and again to keep it relevant.

But it's rare to see monored burn in type2/Standard.

Regarding black: We have a running gag on the Magic board that "Black will do anything to win" (Black gets every other effect all the other colours get, except maybe enchantment and artifact destruction, but always at a risky and dangerous cost, usually in life).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on April 15, 2012, 05:28:19 PM
Red is improving. Look at the miracle-version of Wheel of Fortune that just got spoiled!

That said, I'd love to believe Tibalt could work in modern mono-red with Past in Flames, Burning Vengeance, and as much flashback/unearth stuff as possible--but since all my  card acquisitions lately have been my former roommate's  9th+ copies of cards, it's pretty unlikely that I'll get to test that.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 15, 2012, 05:48:40 PM
Quite a few people are hoping he makes Burning Vengeance a deck in Standard, but I honestly don't know that it will. He's just so fragile for something that would need to be a long-term engine to be any good.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 15, 2012, 06:50:11 PM
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2jlzmOCru1qcgmsgo1_1280.jpg)

Arguably the professor should be Sorin, but lolwhatevs.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on April 15, 2012, 09:53:56 PM
I love the flavor of Appetite for Brains.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 17, 2012, 06:36:49 PM
Some stores opened their Helvaults early (this is my surprised face). Turns out all it contains is some oversized versions of the angel cards, some angel tokens, and some D20s.

Basically... shit. Way to hype, Wizards!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 17, 2012, 07:54:30 PM
Bunch of commons and uncommons spoiled this afternoon. The most IMPORTANT ONE would be:

Geistcatchers 4G
Human Warrior - Common
Soulbond
As long as ~ is paired with another creature, both creatures have reach.
3/5

Who ya gonna call?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 17, 2012, 07:59:15 PM
Some stores opened their Helvaults early (this is my surprised face). Turns out all it contains is some oversized versions of the angel cards, some angel tokens, and some D20s.

Basically... shit. Way to hype, Wizards!
sadtrombone.wav
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ted Belmont on April 29, 2012, 10:17:22 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/uluuX.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on April 29, 2012, 11:29:52 AM
Some stores opened their Helvaults early (this is my surprised face). Turns out all it contains is some oversized versions of the angel cards, some angel tokens, and some D20s.

Basically... shit. Way to hype, Wizards!
sadtrombone.wav

Funny addendum:

Apparently a random small number of Helvaults contained old Judge Promos and Champs Promos that fit the theme (Decree of Justice, Exalted, Demonic, Serra Avenger, etc.).

I can never understand what the hell Wizard's Marketing dept thinks it's doing. I mean, sure, the sensible reply is that like packs, you don't know what you're going to get. If you got a big money card, hey, cool. If not, no loss - right?

Only magic players mostly don't work that way. Many will be jealous and seek to rationalize that jealousy, forming nasty mental associations between "WotC" and "Getting shafted at the prerelease". Cutting Mythic prerelease cards doesn't help this. Players loooooooove to bitch. You'd think WotC would have gotten that one figured out by now.

I'm sure not everybody will be so petty, but I'd also bet that there's a hell of a lot more of those types than there are even-keeled sensible ones. Most vaults only had one or two promos for the top players anyway, so there's plenty of bad karma to go around.

Part of it was the fact that WotC wanted to keep it SHHHH A SECRET. Which is absurd. People knew about Priceless Treasures and everyone raced to buy product, with the early birds getting the worm. That at least worked out more or less well.

But the Helvaults got hyped to the moon. Surely they should have figured one of three things would happen: 1) Someone spoils a Helvault with no promos (i.e. what actually happened), players then stay away upon hearing that the vault is full of crap nobody really wants. 2) Someone spoils a Helvault with promos, causing a stampede for prereleases and an astounding amount of disappointed rage from people who got the short end of the stick, or 3) By some miracle, nobody opens a Helvault early, a small number of people are amazingly happy, many are neutral, and a far larger number once again rage.

I just don't see how anybody could have figured this for a good idea, given the temperament of the average Magic player. Even if someone's not an idiot, I can still see the people who didn't open anything feel let down.

Maybe they just have some kind of mad hate for CCG COMMUNISM.

I would argue that a little "filthy CCG socialism" is actually good for the game. Giving even the worst players/traders a tiny bit of currency to play with always seemed like a no brainer to me for getting people invested in things. It's not like decent Prerelease promos and Player Rewards ever threatened to sink the game or undermine box sales when they were current.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 04, 2012, 10:42:43 AM
Got two boxes of AVR today... the Russian box's collation was strange as fuck with cards randomly upside-down and way too many crappy doubled rares, though the box was okay-ish overall (other than getting shafted on a fat 0 copies of Thunderous Wrath).

The weird thing was that in 2 boxes we got 4 identical Mythics: Tamiyo, Sigarda, Primal Surge, and Descent into Madness (also got a Russian Avacyn).  :OoO:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on May 05, 2012, 08:11:46 AM
I got Blossom and Buttercup, and Griselbrand.  I have a playset of Thunderous Wrath.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 05, 2012, 09:57:51 AM
I got Blossom and Buttercup, and Him.

(http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_le2iyqxWPn1qd3poio1_500.png)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 05, 2012, 07:43:25 PM
Nothing like buying 18 packs and - other than a foil uncommon - not getting a card worth more than a dollar!

:rage:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 05, 2012, 09:02:17 PM
At least if you bought a box, you would... have a box.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Niku on May 06, 2012, 02:05:21 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/IEB5w.gif)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 08, 2012, 08:09:33 AM
Francis rides flips again.

Opening the Helvault with Francis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjWmlFxkwAQ#ws)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on May 08, 2012, 05:17:09 PM
...oh boy.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 08, 2012, 05:33:07 PM
I love how he's wearing a box on his head like some kid wearing a crown at Burger King.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on May 08, 2012, 05:46:45 PM
I briefly flirted with the idea of doing a Douchie McNitpick-style web video series parodying the whining about MTG, but this guy is doing a much better job than I ever could.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 23, 2012, 11:02:18 AM
Looks like 2013's recycled keyword will probably be Exalted. (https://twitter.com/mtgaaron/status/205368218557231105)

I don't think it'll be Devour, because we've already had a +1/+1 counter themed ability for the last core, Cascade has a history of abuse, and Unearth was a primarily black ability.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on May 23, 2012, 12:07:37 PM
Devour and Cascade are appearing in Planechase, too.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 24, 2012, 05:02:54 AM
Exalted is a neat choice that also has some synergy with the "Loner" cards from Avacyn Restored. Also, to add to the linked comment, some Duals of the Planeswalkers screenshots have already been spoiled showing a black creature with Exalted. It really is an ability that can work with any colour though, so that's cool to see.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 24, 2012, 07:19:33 AM
I think, given the rumoured multicolour theme that may pop up in M13, Noble Hierarch may get reprinted. How it's $20, I'll never know.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on May 24, 2012, 07:27:55 AM
Because omg bant op
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 24, 2012, 07:33:52 AM
Because if you're in those colours it's better than Birds of Paradise.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on May 26, 2012, 09:17:21 PM
So, has anyone been looking at the new Planechase stuff?  I'm jazzed.

Dominaria has a new plane that gives every nonland Suspend X where X is its CMC and chaos roll knocks 2 time counters off a suspended spell. (Timebug?)  No mana cost on this suspend.

Also, there's some new shenanigans: Phenomena.  These are one-time random effects that shake up the normal "reveal a plane, roll the die to walk away from it" thing.  For example:

Spatial Merging
When you encounter Spatial Merging, reveal cards from the top of your planar deck until you reveal two plane cards. Simultaneously planeswalk to both of them. Put all other cards revealed this way on the bottom of your planar deck in any order.

Now, the way I've always played Planechase, everyone plays planar cards out of the deck as a global effect.  Everyone's on the same plane.

THIS IS CRAZY.  I'm guessing if there's two planes active at the same time, and you roll chaos, both chaos effects happen.

Then there's Morphic Tide, AKA Warp World.

And for the regular cards?

5RUG

Maelstrom Wanderer
7/5 Legendary Elemental

Creatures you control have haste.

Cascade, Cascade

BONKERS.

EDIT: HAH!  Awesome idea!  A Ninja that is a Ninja Clone!  The Ninja ETBs as a copy of any creature, and is a ninja in addition to the other types it gains.  It's 2UU and flips out for 1U.

HOLY DICKS.  A 0/0 for 3RG that has Devour X, where X is the number of creatures devoured.  So, you devour 1, it's a 1/1, and it grows in perfect squares.  4, 9, 16, 25...

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on May 26, 2012, 09:42:53 PM
I'm unreasonably excited about the 1GU 2/2 with cascade, "Shardless Agent".
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on May 26, 2012, 09:51:43 PM
With the double-cascade guy, he qualifies as a general.  A pretty nutty general.  Hefty cost, but...huh.  Here's a question.  Does cascade take in to account the increased cost of casting the general on subsequent summonings?  Like, is your first cascade for 7 or less, then 9, 11, 13, etc?  Or does it just stay at 7.  I'm thinking it's the latter.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 27, 2012, 04:11:52 AM
Yeah McDohl, the cascade triggers off his printed CMC and is not affected by the general premium any more than it would be affected by a regular card that increased or decreased his CMC (Heartless Summoning, Sphere of Resistance, whatever).

I'm unreasonably excited about the 1GU 2/2 with cascade, "Shardless Agent".

I was too until I remembered that Cascade & counterspells are a non-bo. Still, I'm sure he'll find a use - a 2/2 warm body is a damn sight better than the other 3 CMC cascade cards.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on May 28, 2012, 05:53:49 AM
So they've released a judge calling on the card Cavern of Souls (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cavern+of+souls).

Now when you tap it to cast a creature of the chosen type, it's assumed you automatically use the ability that makes it uncounterable, instead of having just tapped it for 1 colorless mana.

I'm calling attention to this because there's two points right there that show why I only read magic cards and don't actually play the fucking game:
1) They had to state this in the rules;
2) Magic players are angry that they won't be able to say "nuh nuh nuh you didn't say you used the good ability" and counter the enemy by surprise anymore.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 28, 2012, 06:03:04 AM
That's actually a switch from the original ruling where it was assumed that you would use it for colourless unless stated otherwise. Yes, the judges backtracked, but the card presented a weird rule issue and I can see how it was tough for them to rule on it. Rather than try to fumble my way through the explanation, I'll just re-post the judge rationales for both the original and the reversed rulings (for those who care about such things).

Quote from: Original Ruling
Here's the Official ruling on Cavern of Souls and some explanation as to why it's this way.

This is far from a clear-cut issue; there's no "obvious" answer, despite what people might claim. Arguments can be made for both sides, were, and then we picked what seemed like the solution most in-line with philosophy. In the end, it comes down to two fundamental ideas:

* If a player wants to do something out of the ordinary, it's generally expected that they'll indicate this. This is, for example, why we have the auto-priority-pass shortcut. You almost always want to pass priority after taking an action, so the assumption is that you should have to speak up in an unusual situation.

* Players should not be encouraged to create ambiguity in the game state, and should not be rewarded for creating ambiguity.

How do these apply to Cavern of Souls? Tapping mana is normally atomic and binary - you tap a bunch of lands and the end result asks if you're able to play the spell. How those lands are tapped is not all that relevant, so long as there's an interpretable result that gives you the mana you need. This means that players don't pay a lot of attention to land tapping, by both the tapper and the opponent. The vast majority of the time, the result is all that matters.

Cavern of Souls changes that. Now, how the lands were tapped produces (invisible) side effects and that generates ambiguous game states. This is a highly unusual situation, and, as noted above, we like players to call attention to highly unusual situations. We don't want the opponent to have to deal with the ambiguity. They can't clarify the situation without potentially giving away information - "hey, did you make that uncounterable?" - and if there's multiple Caverns in play set to different types, the situation for them just gets worse.

Because of this, the Official expectation is that if land is tapped in a way that makes how Cavern was used ambiguous, that player will announce if they wish to make the spell uncounterable. The burden for announcing is not high here: "Red", "use Cavern", or anything that indicates that the player has used the appropriate ability is fine.

If there's no ambiguity - the spell can only be cast if colored mana is being drawn from Cavern of Souls - then no announcement needs to be made. Attempting to hide the lands you've tapped (piling them, etc) to try to hide the fact that the spell is uncounterable will not be received well, however. Don't try that.


Quote from: Revised Ruling
So, R&D has had lengthy discussions about Cavern of Souls. The card's templating is unique; there hasn't ever been a card before that has two invisible effects that have such different implications for the game state, and that wasn't anticipated before release. Given the problems that it causes, I suspect it'll be the last to use this template.

In the end, the original designer intent of the card was that it always applied when you cast a spell with the appropriate type, whether you had actually remembered to activate it properly or not. Because of this, they've asked us to reconsider the ruling that you need to announce Cavern of Souls if you want the spell to be counterable.

We're sympathetic to their desires and, as I said in the previous mail, there were arguments to be made for both sides, even if philosophy supported the original interpretation better. As a result, we're reversing the ruling. If a Cavern of Souls gets tapped for the appropriate creature type, the spell is uncounterable whether they say anything or not. We'd still prefer that players be clear about the game state, of course.

There'll probably be a bunch of confusion about this initially. We did a good job (I think) of getting the word out the first time around, so it'll take a while to educate everyone about the reverse. I'd strongly encourage everyone to make reminder announcements at their events for the next few. I know I will be at the start of GP:Anaheim!

Unique and messy cards are, fortunately, few and far between, and tournament-playable ones are rarer still. Apologies for the confusion, and hopefully this uses up the allocation for the next several years!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 28, 2012, 07:51:01 AM
Quote from: Original Ruling
* Players should not be encouraged to create ambiguity in the game state, and should not be rewarded for creating ambiguity.

I imagine that judges would frown on playing three-card monte with Morph creatures.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 09, 2012, 08:17:08 PM
On the MTG site I go to, we've made fun of the hilarious decline in WotC ability to write flavour text for a couple years now, but man the flavour text in this set is UNREAL BAD:

(http://i.imgur.com/ZnktGl.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on June 09, 2012, 08:25:36 PM
Modified art of her as a weeping angel in 3...2...
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on June 09, 2012, 10:30:55 PM
(http://scp-wiki.wdfiles.com/local--files/scp-173/SCP-173.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 16, 2012, 11:09:08 AM
http://www.lillysleafnlog.com/lady-blanc-aromatic-enhancer/ (http://www.lillysleafnlog.com/lady-blanc-aromatic-enhancer/)

look closely
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 16, 2012, 11:44:57 AM
Ohhhh lawdy lawd.  XD
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on June 16, 2012, 12:19:52 PM
I don't know what I'm looking for.  What am I looking for?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: on June 16, 2012, 01:13:47 PM
(http://www.lillysleafnlog.com/product_images/l/435/LADYB1__76246_std.jpg) (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=123312&d=1314763231)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 16, 2012, 07:52:32 PM
I like how they went with the alternate extra-chainy version (http://steveargyle.com/gallery/artwork/?artwork_id=400).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 16, 2012, 08:52:40 PM
How on earth did you find that anyway?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: on June 16, 2012, 10:44:12 PM
So.

This is the art for a new vampire card blah blah blah. I'm sure a couple of you have seen it already.

There's something interesting going on here:

It looks like the artist originally drew one knee up and one knee down. I guess someone didn't like that pose, because it looks like the second foot (the shadowed one) was added after the fact.

The problem is that the hand that used to be resting on the now-removed knee is now supposed to be holding up her dress. Only it doesn't look at all like that hand is actually holding anything.

So instead it looks like the biggest vampire dickgirl ever.

(9:39:11 PM) Artist: Ahahaha
(9:39:56 PM) Artist: I was looking at painting tutorials, and I found a collection of downloadable .movs that are supposed to be for painting some fantasy images by a guy that I ugess draws MTG art
(9:40:11 PM) Artist: And there's one for this lovely image http://artfiles.alphacoders.com/161/16129.jpg (http://artfiles.alphacoders.com/161/16129.jpg)
(9:40:37 PM) WAHA!: behold my true form, and despahohmygod
(9:43:00 PM) Artist: I'm half-curious if the process video shows how that happened
(9:46:58 PM) Artist: ...Huh
(9:48:04 PM) Artist: Appaerntly he started painting her with both her legs hanging down and the front of her dress down flat, then tried pulling out part of the dress to look like she was pulling out her skirt, and then for some dumb reason he redid the detailing in a way that made it look much much much more horrifying

:themoreyouknow:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 17, 2012, 05:49:35 AM
How on earth did you find that anyway?

I saw the image on /tg/.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 19, 2012, 02:58:05 PM
Lorthos, the Tap-Dancing Octopus

Lorthos, the Tidemaker (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=191369)
 Harbor Serpent (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=230756)
 Enclave Elite (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=197767)
 Benthic Behemoth (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=13030)
 Merfolk Assassin (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=108821)
 Merfolk Seastalkers (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=189625)
 Sand Squid (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=19668)
 Stormtide Leviathan (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205029)
 Streambed Aquitects (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=139424)
 Thada Adel (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=197973)
 Quicksilver Gargantuan (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=207874)
 Frost Titan (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=235191)
 Brine Elemental (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=189245)
 Giant Oyster (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=108816)
 Magus of the Unseen (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=184732)
 Pestermite (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=139428)
 Puppeteer (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=129685)
 Inkwell Leviathan (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=270447)
 Tideforce Elemental (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=194012)
 Vedalken Anatomist (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=222861)
 Wall of Frost (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=271197)
 Floodchaser (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=152830)
 Cephalid Retainer (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=31870)
 Surgespanner (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=141828)
 Mnemonic Wall (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=193491)
 Deep-Sea Kraken (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=113506)
 Sphinx Ambassador (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=191098)
 Vedalken Mastermind (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=130834)
 Apprentice Wizard (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=159087)

 Quicksilver Amulet (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=237006)
 Quicksilver Fountain (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=49772)
 War Barge (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=109757)
 Gauntlet of Power (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=124220)
 Soldevi Digger (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=184574)
 Planar Portal (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=45486)

 Quest for Ula's Temple (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=198401)
 Crab Umbra (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=193500)
 Dream leash (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=88945)
 Mystic Restraints (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=79188)
 Narcolepsy (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=193594)
 Volition Reins (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=209001)
 Lingering Mirage (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=10462)
 Spreading Seas (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=190405)
 War Tax (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=19809)
 Soothsaying (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=19807)
 Pendrell Mists (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=4493)
 Flood (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=21139)
 Coastal Piracy (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=46618)

 Breaking Wave (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=23012)
 Flow of Ideas (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=158692)
 Discombobulate (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=134749)
 Rewind (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=83230)
 Capsize (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=4691)
 Gigadrowse (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=96864)
 Inundate (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=142010)
 Siren's Call (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=2184)
 Familiar's Ruse (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=146584)
 Wipe Away (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=118911)
 Rite of Replication (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=195630)
 Mystical Tutor (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=194976)

 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=240070)

 Ghost Quarter (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=220371)
 Lonely Sandbar (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247349)
 Temple of the False God (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247406)
 Soldevi Excavation (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=184575)
35 Islands

This deck's based primarly around two themes: tapping down an opponent's board and islandwalk. I'm trying to keep it fairly low budget (lol Tamiyo) and I wanted to avoid most of the staple/griefer cards that Blue is notorious for. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on June 19, 2012, 03:38:00 PM
I was a little surprised not to see Dreamscape Artist, who's pretty good in big blue decks like this.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 19, 2012, 04:51:55 PM
Well, I'm kind of leery about the discard part of his ability.

Oooh, I know, Terrain Generator (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=189256)!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Envy on June 19, 2012, 05:07:32 PM
Dark Depths (http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/details.aspx?name=Dark%20Depths) perhaps?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 19, 2012, 06:46:45 PM
Dark Depths (http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/details.aspx?name=Dark%20Depths) perhaps?

Mmmmmnah. The token kinda fits the theme, but there's enough targeted land-destruction (Strip Mine, Acidic Slime, Ghost Quarter) to make the mana investment pointless.

In a related story, Sheldon Menery announced some EDH bannings. (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/commander/24321_Nath_Of_The_GiltLeaf.html)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 19, 2012, 08:29:52 PM
Also Land Tax unbanned in Legacy.

Yay!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 19, 2012, 08:41:18 PM
Will the price go up?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 19, 2012, 08:44:54 PM
Undoubtedly.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 21, 2012, 12:27:02 PM
(http://magiccards.info/scans/de/6e/162.jpg)

hee hee hee
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 21, 2012, 02:40:02 PM
Undoubtedly.

zomg (http://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_nkw=land+tax+4th&_sacat=0&_odkw=land+tax+mtg&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313)

I have three of these.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 21, 2012, 03:14:43 PM
That's nothing. Star City Games raised their prices to a PANIC PRICE of $79.00 for the Legends version.

Early consensus is that it does nothing for Legacy right now and may not even see play in anything (such is the speed of Legacy magic these days), so if you don't care about 'em, flog 'em fast before the price goes back down (should settle around $25 for the Legends version when all's said and done).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 21, 2012, 05:05:40 PM
Hmmm, how much do you think I'd get for a couple of "Moderately Played" (http://sales.starcitygames.com//cardconditions.php) Land Taxes?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 21, 2012, 05:36:33 PM
Right now? Who knows. We're in the middle of the price spike, so a ton of people are thinking like you are and rushing to sell. Which doesn't mean that's not a good idea if you don't need the cards for anything else AND can sell them FAST.

Just cut about 20% off of the going rate. Are yours White bordered or Black bordered? Black bordered seems to have settled around $25-$30 for the moment and white bordered appears to already be settling down to $15 or so and may tumble down to $10 within a week.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 22, 2012, 07:15:00 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/Ij9Dj.jpg)

HAHA, OH MAN.  :perfect:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Nickasummers on June 22, 2012, 07:25:17 AM
Anyone else get the distinct feeling that the only decks that will ever contain worldfire are going to be 100 cards with no more than 1 copy of each card other than basic lands?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 22, 2012, 07:37:53 AM
Actually that's on the "Extreme EDH BAN watchlist", per Sheldon.

So it could get hellbanned fast.

What I'm wondering is if there's any kind of a Legacy deck with that.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Nickasummers on June 22, 2012, 07:53:13 AM
Legacy is so fast I don't think you could get it down without some serious shinanigans, but maybe it could work. It wouldn't even be good in edh, it would just be annoying and fun-killing
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 22, 2012, 07:58:02 AM
Actually that's on the "Extreme EDH BAN watchlist", per Sheldon.

Not surprising. Worldfire + Oblivion Ring + Inferno Titan = GG
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Nickasummers on June 22, 2012, 07:59:46 AM
Didn't even consider the interaction with o-ring, thats a good point
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 22, 2012, 08:31:43 AM
Or Flickerform, Mistmeadow Witch, Galepowder Mage, Glimmerpoint Stag, Memory Jar, Argent Sphinx, Worldgorger Dragon, Ghostway, any creature with the "Champion a ____" ability...

To say nothing of what Jhoira could suspend.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 22, 2012, 09:26:49 AM
Yeah, Jhoira decks are always under scrutiny.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Nickasummers on June 22, 2012, 10:17:00 AM
That's embarrassing. RU is my favorite color combo and I can honestly say I have never seen or heard of Jhoira until today. That is a pretty neat EDH commander
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 24, 2012, 09:02:53 PM
The M10 duals are being reprinted. No shocklands.

There are 23 rares and 1 mythic left to be spoiled, but I am officially making my "This set sucks and will still suck later and sales will be poor" prediction. At this point even a Noble Hierarch reprint PLUS at least one crazy new rare/mythic is not enough to save M13 from utter mediocrity.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Nickasummers on June 27, 2012, 07:16:18 PM
The M10 duals are being reprinted. No shocklands.
Sadness... I love the shocklands
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 27, 2012, 07:34:14 PM
They may still be reprinted in Return to Ravnica
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 28, 2012, 06:39:22 PM
On the plus-side, no more Titans. Their prices are gonna plummet (relatively)!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 28, 2012, 10:04:10 PM
The thing is it works both ways. If a card get reprinted, it plummets. If it gets cut, it plummets.

And by the way guys, M13 looks abysmal so far. Huge drop-off in power AND utility, and most of the decent cards are mediocre reprints (stuff like Mutilate or Gilded Lotus are supposed to carry this set... ugh). Of the remarkable rares, probably the most interesting one right now is a functional Lord of Atlantis copy called Master of the Pearl Trident (the only difference is he only affects YOUR merfolk). So legacy and Modern merfolk can now run copies 5-8 of the best lord ever. Won't do much for Standard though because the current suite of merfolk is poor and there were no merfolk in Ravnica last time, so we probably won't see any this time either.

Of the six planeswalkers, four are reprints, one of which is so-so decent but still saw little play (M12 Garruk) two of which are awful and saw no play (M12 Jace, M12 Chandra), one of which is powerful but fills an incredibly tiny niche (Bolas), and two which are new, one of which is good-to-decent (Ajani - probably the best card in a pretty bad set), and one of which is certifiably among the worst three walkers ever printed (sad Liliana).

The other mythics are an angel that looks good but is probably not really all that great in practice (gives all your guys exalted), a bunch of EDH-only monsters like Worldfire, and snooze-filled reprints like Akroma's Memorial.

There are a few rares left to be spoiled (we're still holding out hope for a Noble Hierarch reprint, which would automatically become the second-best card in the set).

Overall my crap-MTG-stock-picks advice so far (barring crazy reveals in the last ten unspoiled rares or so) is to hold on your money and save up for Return to Ravnica, which will be coming this fall, hopefully with more stuff than this lacklustre pile.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on June 29, 2012, 04:07:27 AM
At this point it seems pretty obvious that the only colors getting exalted are Orzhov, so Noble Hierarch will not be making an appearance.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Nickasummers on June 29, 2012, 05:14:12 AM
The set as a whole is mediocre, but I am actually really excited to be playing in standard when RtR comes out. Most of M13 is going to be dirt cheap to just buy online as needed and I am REALLY feeling R/U Control-Burn. Jace and Chandra aren't worthless, but they aren't great. Getting reprinted means a drop in price which means I might be able to afford them.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 29, 2012, 03:15:40 PM
At this point it seems pretty obvious that the only colors getting exalted are Orzhov, so Noble Hierarch will not be making an appearance.

People keep saying this but until the set is fully spoiled, B/W exalted is not confirmed.

In M12 Scry was in several colours, and black only got one card. So there is definitely precedent. More importantly, when else would they reprint Hierach? We have a multicolour block coming up, Birds of Paradise are not in the core, and we're using Exalted again. The next time the stars will line up for that sort of thing would be years and years from now if ever.

It's not guaranteed, but I won't discount it just on the basis that we've only had black or white exalted card so far.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 29, 2012, 06:06:29 PM
As I recall, in M11, Scry was on three blue cards, one artifact and one black creature. That's pretty weak representation in a set of 200+ cards.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 01, 2012, 09:57:31 PM
Full spoiler's up, no Noble Hierarch.

Red's been getting the shaft for a while now in MTG, but this set has got to be some kind of new nadir for Red. M13 red is just awful, for constructed AND draft.

The Hellkite is a very solid card. I also like Wild Guess and Krenko. But other than that... well... have a gander at this:

List of Red spells in M13 at 1 CMC:

- Goblin Arsonist
- Kindled Fury
- Slumbering Dragon
- Smelt

That list kind of speaks for itself, I think. You have one of red's worse 1-drops, a very marginal creature pump card, a card you can't even really call a 1-drop, and a shatter. And that's it. In the colour of fast aggro. Welp.

At 2 CMC you have:

- Crimson Muckwader
- Dragon Hatchling
- Krenko's Command
- Mogg Flunkies
- Reverberate
- Searing Spear
- Torch Fiend
- Volcanic Strength
- Wild Guess

That looks a good bit better, but mostly for Draft. I still don't see much that's very meaty for constructed there besides Spear (which is a mildly watered down card but beggars won't be choosers), probably Krenko's Command, hopefully Wild Guess, and maaayyybe Hatchling?

Other notable oversights include a goblin theme with no goblin lord besides Arms Dealer and a general shortage of constructed-worthy goblins to go with Krenko. Sorry folks, Flunkies has not been good since Tempest.

But if you want crappy overcosted jank there's plenty of that. With gems like Craterize (stone rain for 4), Fervor, Fire Elemental, Furnace Whelp (especially cruel in a set with dragon hatchling), Goblin Battle Jester, Hamletback Goliath, Reckless Brute, or Wall of Fire, I don't see how you can go wrong.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Nickasummers on July 02, 2012, 05:55:23 AM
I actually like what these are going to do for the standard metagame for red when ravnica is released, but there is pretty much no reason to draft red in M13. It is worth noting that there is an otherwise shitty blue spell that lets you pick an instand or sorcery spell from your grave and from your opponents (not looking it up on my phone). In RU control burn you can use wild guess, faithless looting, desolate lighthouse to get the cards you want and discard things you dont, like, i dont know, worldfire. And then cast the blue spell. The way i read the spell, youd be chosing the order the spells go on the stack. I like how that combo looks. Lots of efficient creatures to support it in innistrad and m13 and fingers crossed for ravnica to provide more.

Edit: The blue card is Spelltwine (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132808&d=1340856200)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 02, 2012, 06:49:36 AM
At least they're reprinting some EDH staples. I was getting mighty frustrated at seeing a four-dollar price tag on Reliquary Tower.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Nickasummers on July 02, 2012, 07:10:22 AM
How did I miss that.... They printed one legendary of each color that would make for an effective EDH commander.
(http://i.imgur.com/J8KDK.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 02, 2012, 07:53:07 AM
Man, just about the only cards that seem interesting are colourless. You're pretty much dead-on with your assessment of this set, Mongrel. Even the art seems dull and same-y.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 02, 2012, 09:09:49 AM
Starr and I usually buy like 2-3 boxes per set, but we're just gonna get one this time around. Better to save for Ravnica (which I pray they don't fuck up)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 09, 2012, 10:15:25 AM
Regarding Worldfire: Could you use a sac outlet and Second Sunrise to avoid losing all your stuff?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 09, 2012, 11:18:15 AM
As long as you do it in response to the Worldfire (unless it's sorecery-speed only) and float some mana for the Sunrise, yeah.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 09, 2012, 01:56:04 PM
As long as you do it in response to the Worldfire (unless it's sorecery-speed only) and float some mana for the Sunrise, yeah.

So Claws of Gix or Kaervek's Spite would do the job. Or if you want to get fancy, a Quickened All is Dust. Or some kinda Blood Celebrant/Lich's Tomb combo, although why you'd have that running in the first place, I'll never know.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 09, 2012, 02:27:27 PM
I have a combo deck that wins with Kaervek's Spite.  :nyoro~n:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on July 11, 2012, 03:49:06 AM
Once again, a clever hacker has determined the contents of the first expansion to DotP2013. Wizards was smart about it this year and didn't include any new cards in these five decks—however, they do indicate just which five guilds will be in Return to Ravnica: [spoiler]Azorius and Selesnya, Izzet and Golgari, and Rakdos.[/spoiler] The first guild mentioned looks to have an enchantment theme this time around. Decklists: ONE (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29194917/D13_Expansion_1_-_Azoriuss_Aura_Servants_Decklist__Unlocks) - TWO (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29195177/D13_Expansion_1_-_Selesnyas_Collective_Might_Decklist__Unlocks&post_num=1#521133011) - THREE (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29195041/D13_Expansion_1_-_Izzets_Mindstorms_Decklist__Unlocks) - FOUR (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29194993/D13_Expansion_1_-_Golgaris_Sepulchral_Strength_Decklist__Unlocks) - FIVE (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29195093/D13_Expansion_1_-_Rakdoss_Grinning_Malice_Decklist__Unlocks). That last one strongly resembles a commander deck I've been playing lately, and it's probably going to wind up being my favorite.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on July 11, 2012, 04:28:28 AM
Wait, we're only getting 5 of the 10? What?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on July 11, 2012, 04:34:50 AM
Also is Duels of the Planeswalkers good? I know it probably doesn't hold a candle to live playing with the cards, but is it worth $10?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 11, 2012, 04:54:37 AM
Wait, we're only getting 5 of the 10? What?

In the first set. Guess that answers the question about how R2R will be structured.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on July 11, 2012, 07:36:10 AM
two big sets with five guilds and one with god knows what?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on July 11, 2012, 08:16:58 AM
As for the quality of DOTP2013, we've come a long way from the stuttery and annoying first game. The deck selection seems pretty flaccid at first, since there are 9 monocolor decks and B/W exalted, but all of the decks are pretty fun to play this time around. (My favorite deck is still the U/G eldrazi ramp from the 2012 main game.) Planechase is pretty fun, but I much preferred last year's Archenemy mode. There are also "encounters" which are simple challenges with stacked nonlegal decks, like "using any deck you've customized, beat this guy who summons one after another X-powered hydra whose counters double every turn."

Easily worth $10, imo. Same is true for 2012, but not the original.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 11, 2012, 09:06:04 AM
two big sets with five guilds and one with god knows what?

Sounds about right I guess?

ALL BIG SETS ALL THE TIME. GO BIG OR GO HOME.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 11, 2012, 11:15:03 AM
Wasn't that something that WizCo bitched about circa M10?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on July 11, 2012, 11:41:22 AM
Yeah, individual sets got smaller as a result, but now we've had blocks with 2 large sets three times in the last five years. Maybe the "real" reason sets shrank is to allow them more freedom to experiment in this way?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 11, 2012, 12:49:36 PM
Sets shrank because players were becoming more and more vocal about purchase fatigue. It worked in Wizards' favour because I think the designers were happy to have smaller sets as those are much more manageable, with less chaff and filler having to be cranked out. However the decreased product size led directly to the introduction of Mythics to keep set sizes up.

I think a flirtation with too many large sets carries the danger of reawakening the old purchase fatigue beast. Now we have 4 sets a year, Mythics, and multiple boutique sets. The only thing left that balances that is smaller set sizes and they've repeatedly flirted with ending that.

I actually suspect it's extremely careful marketing. In reality they were pushing four sets a year even before size reduction (through gimmicks like Coldsnap and Un-sets), five if you actually counted Core sets. In the same vein they have three de facto large sets per year but pretend it's only two, through "one time" gimmicks like Avacyn Restored and Rise of the Eldrazi.

All that said, current set sizes are still a big improvement. 249 cards is way better than the sets that came close to 400 before. and 150 is certainly better than the 188+ the small sets used to hover around.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on July 13, 2012, 08:41:34 PM
As the DOTP2013 expansion analysis indicated, guilds are confirmed back in the first two (large) sets of Return block, followed by a third (small) set containing cards for all ten guilds.


Return to Ravnica: Azorius, Izzet, Rakdos, Golgari, Selesnya.
Gatecrash: Orzhov, Dimir, Gruul, Boros, Simic.
"Sinker": Everybody!

None of the original guild keywords are returning; each guild gets a new keyword which is supposed to play well with the old keyword. Some of the guildmasters are either the same or previously existed in the story, notably Borborygmos of the Gruul, Niv-Mizzet, Isperia of the Azor, Rakdos, the Ghost Council, and Jarad a Golgari elf who was Savra's brother and wound up opposing her in the Ravnica block novels, in which he died, manifested as a spirit, and possessed his own dead body, spontaneously animating as a lich. New guildleaders include a three-in-one dryad for the Selesnya, a merfolk for the Simic (merfolk appearing on Ravnica is apparently a story-relevant development), a new Boros angel, and some guy for the Dimir (some people are suggesting that this guy was previously a dark confidant).

Two planeswalkers in the first set, one of whom is Jace; two planeswalkers in the second set, one of whom is Gideon (who is blatantly Boros-aligned red-white at the moment).

At the prerelease, you declare your allegiance to one of the five guilds. This gets you a special "guild box" with an appropriate spindown life counter, a guild-specific promo card that you can actually use in the tournament, a guild sticker, a letter from your guildmaster, 5 packs of Return to Ravnica plus one guild-aligned pack that contains only cards of your guild's colors, and an achievement card with guild-specific achievements.

They have all-but-confirmed the existence of the shocklands.

Commander is becoming a yearly product to replace the premium deck series. However, they couldn't start this in time for this ear, so the product this year is a special reprints-only set with new art and frames.

Also a land was spoiled for the FTV:Realms that adds 1 mana of any color but puts a 1/1 colorless spirit into play under an opponent's control.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 13, 2012, 08:48:01 PM
None of the original guild keywords are returning; each guild gets a new keyword which is supposed to play well with the old keyword. Some of the guildmasters are either the same or previously existed in the story, notably Borborygmos of the Gruul, Niv-Mizzet, Isperia of the Azor, Rakdos, the Ghost Council, and Jarad a Golgari elf who was Savra's brother and wound up opposing her in the Ravnica block novels, in which he died, manifested as a spirit, and possessed his own dead body, spontaneously animating as a lich. New guildleaders include a three-in-one dryad for the Selesnya, a merfolk for the Simic (merfolk appearing on Ravnica is apparently a story-relevant development), a new Boros angel, and some guy for the Dimir (some people are suggesting that this guy was previously a dark confidant).

Two planeswalkers in the first set, one of whom is Jace; two planeswalkers in the second set, one of whom is Gideon (who is blatantly Boros-aligned red-white at the moment).

At the prerelease, you declare your allegiance to one of the five guilds. This gets you a special "guild box" with an appropriate spindown life counter, a guild-specific promo card that you can actually use in the tournament, a guild sticker, a letter from your guildmaster, 5 packs of Return to Ravnica plus one guild-aligned pack that contains only cards of your guild's colors, and an achievement card with guild-specific achievements.

They have all-but-confirmed the existence of the shocklands.

Commander is becoming a yearly product to replace the premium deck series. However, they couldn't start this in time for this ear, so the product this year is a special reprints-only set with new art and frames.

Also a land was spoiled for the FTV:Realms that adds 1 mana of any color but puts a 1/1 colorless spirit into play under an opponent's control.
Forbidden Orchard. (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=79252)

The guild-allegiance thing sounds awesome. Where's you learn all this, Newbie?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on July 13, 2012, 09:02:16 PM
That was all from feverishly checking the MTGSalvation forums while at the bar earlier tonight, but I just came across a much more concise (http://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/wj57y/summary_of_information_from_the_magic_comiccon/) summary.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Nickasummers on July 13, 2012, 09:15:30 PM
Holy shit. I didn't know i could be more excited for RtR but apparently I was wrong!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 13, 2012, 09:25:15 PM
Yeah, I've been babbling about this stuff with the MTG crowd all night.

Have some art:

MTG Facebook art page for R2R (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151907751520307.868543.201120755306&type=1) 

Also some FTV: Realms spoilers. Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth is in as is Murmuring Bosk (both with old art). The preview image is confirmed as Glacial Chasm with new art. Other new arts are:

(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133187&d=1342231804)

(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133179&d=1342228438)

(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133191&d=1342232038)




Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 16, 2012, 08:30:07 AM
Really nice talk from Aaron Forsythe summarizing MTG from about Mirrodin to M13

Magic TV: Extra - Aaron Forsythe "Between Ravnicas" (Magic Cruise 2012) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwpr9wSLDbM#ws)

The audio's crap and the slides play into the talk at spots, so you can't really play it in the background while you do other things. It's pretty long but if you're care much about MTG, it's quite worthwhile. The candidness is really refreshing, especially if you're used to MaRo's coy bullshitting as the main source of behind-the-scenes info. For instance, he plainly states that 4-sets-per-year was driven by revenue and came largely at Hasbro's behest.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on July 16, 2012, 09:44:34 AM
jesus christ that's some loud laughing.
Also, could he have picked a worse example than Team Fortress 2 for "game that will eventually be replaced by a sequel"?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 16, 2012, 09:59:08 AM
On the magic boards, I jokingly replied "WHAT DO YOU MEAN THEY'RE REPLACING TF2?!".
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 18, 2012, 05:53:30 PM
So if I attack with Mindstab Thrull and sacrifice it to its ability, can I respond to the trigger by dropping in an Okiba-Gang Shinobi?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 02, 2012, 09:13:27 AM
So, this:

Quote from: Milo
Quote from: YWN
So this has popped up:

(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133638&d=1343723640)


My first impression was to call it fake, since indestructible reminder text always mentions "lethal damage" and not simply "damage." (Darksteel Sentinel, Break of Day, etc. Even the Planechase version of Darksteel Forge that was printed with only "damage" had its oracle wording changed to "lethal damage.") But then someone pointed out to me Aegis Angel and Indestructibility which just say "damage". Which is weird, because Knight Exemplar, printed in between the two, again mentions "lethal damage" so I don't think "it's because they're from Core Sets" is a valid excuse. (And because even if so, RTR is not a Core Set.) So either those two cards were test runs to see if anyone would give a damn by the change in wording and it's being put into permanent effect in RTR, or this thing is fake.

But if indeed fake, it's gotta be the most well executed one so far. There's even a photo of the guy holding it in front of a mirror. (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133637&d=1343723090)


My take:

Quote
You know what's funny? I actually think this is real.

See, we've seen pro fakes before, hell, some of us have been a party to some of the best fakes of all time. Let me tell you, the best guys do their research. They're not going to miss something stupid like the copyright line that people keep carping about. This isn't a marquee card like a dual or a planeswalker - anybody smart enough to pick a low risk "Typical" card like that is probably smart enough to actually double-check their damn template. I suspect that we'll see that the copyright line has genuinely changed.

The card itself passes the smell test (it "feels" like a real card WotC would make, and Populate "feels" like a real ability).

Also, the art pretty clearly has a Ravnica and MTG flavour and is by a major recurring artist who does not typically upload a lot of new art to his webpage. I'd love to hear how the explanation for how someone got Selesnya-flavoured Mark Zug art just for a fake common. To me this is the single biggest proof.

The M13 pack story is pretty questionable, but there have been errors like that in the past and for all we know that was an intentional plant by WotC. Also, that could just be a (lame) cover for someone who stole a card or cards from an FFL session or something.

Also:

Quote from: YWN
So I sent Matt Tabak an email:
Quote
Dear Matt Tabak,
 Pretty much every card with reminder text for indestructibility mentions "lethal damage," with the exception of Aegis Angel and Indestructibility which simply say "damage." Just wondering if there was any particular reason for this, because I don't think "it's because they're from Core Sets" is the reason since Knight Exemplar also mentions "lethal damage."
 Thank you for your time.

His response:
Quote
Sometime in the recent past, although I can't remember exactly when, we decided to remove the term "lethal damage" from the reminder text of indestructible. I think the M10 card Indestructibility did this as a unique one-of because it was weird, affecting creatures and noncreatures. It became policy on or just prior to M13.

Have fun!

Matt
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 04, 2012, 07:20:19 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/QnnyI.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/9hyG6.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/20zlX.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/oy0oi.jpg)

this is an actual thing
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 05, 2012, 12:48:39 AM
Of all the cards to hang your hat on, Stormtide Leviathan?  Really?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on August 05, 2012, 03:12:12 PM
This propagates the myth that women play magic
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: on August 05, 2012, 04:25:04 PM
Where is the rest of Moegic the Gathering

DON'T LEAVE US HANGING
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ted Belmont on August 05, 2012, 04:37:47 PM
This propagates the myth that women play magic

It's true, I've seen blurry photos of it!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Beat Bandit on August 05, 2012, 04:55:40 PM
They do that so you can't see they're fat.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Nickasummers on August 05, 2012, 05:02:03 PM
Hey man, my ex girlfriend played magic and she isn't fat. Hell she was a model at a fashion show at the sci-fi convention I went to with her.

...I'm just going to stop because every word I add makes this sound more and more fake. (swear its all true though!)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 05, 2012, 05:37:15 PM
Good thing Starr doesn't post on the boards then :humpf:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 05, 2012, 08:54:23 PM
Okay, okay, here. (http://www.mediafire.com/?t5qy2emn2arg7gg) It's complete, but it's from a different translation team.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 10, 2012, 08:17:57 AM
They just previewed Commander's Arsenal. You get a bag of +/- counters, some oversized legend cards, 18 foils and 120 sleeves.

..for $75.

Fat Guy Flips Table in Slow Motion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlarOMLD59A#ws)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on August 10, 2012, 10:16:42 AM
You guys realize I've been doing the same thing for years only with Smash Bros

and no I mean the original with the stupidly broken spikes and edge guarding, not the sequels with the stupidly broken wave dashing and Marth/Fox
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on August 10, 2012, 01:54:53 PM
the first man to beat friday with jigglypuff shall marry her
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Nickasummers on August 10, 2012, 02:36:33 PM
the first man to beat friday with jigglypuff shall marry her
How many attempts to we get? What are the rules for this challenge?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Niku on August 10, 2012, 03:16:19 PM
no items
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Niku on August 10, 2012, 03:16:25 PM
fox only
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Niku on August 10, 2012, 03:16:36 PM
i know what you did last summers
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on August 10, 2012, 06:05:13 PM
Final Destination is my fetish


Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 15, 2012, 07:56:48 AM
http://whengeekswed.com/blog1/2012/08/13/nerdprov-propsal-at-geek-girl-con/ (http://whengeekswed.com/blog1/2012/08/13/nerdprov-propsal-at-geek-girl-con/)

 :luv:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on August 15, 2012, 01:13:16 PM
dies to removal
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Beat Bandit on August 15, 2012, 01:44:15 PM
"but Rachel, we had phasing!"
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 26, 2012, 05:23:31 PM
So it turns out that in the new Ravnica guild descriptions (http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/productarticle.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/guilds/dimir), the Dimir backstory is essentially identical to a January parody article on the subject (http://magiclampoon.com/blog/2012/01/12/survey-of-ravnicans-reveals-fully-98-percent-know-all-about-dimir-guild/).

:whoops:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on August 27, 2012, 06:36:56 AM
Also: Niv-Mizzet is less of a narcissistic dragon with ADHD and more of Nicol Bolas 2.0, and Simic have been completely changed from biomancers to Widget the fucking World Watcher.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 27, 2012, 06:43:18 AM
Well, in the case of the Simic, they were really destroyed last time around, so total reinvention isn't as much of a stretch as it could be.

But it IS kinda awkward. Especially since they kind of overlap confusingly with the Gruul now.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 27, 2012, 08:31:09 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/QBhln.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/nU0SP.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/uIBoY.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/9tqJS.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/xbaQq.jpg)

HEY GUYS AM I DOIN' IT RIGHT?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Beat Bandit on August 27, 2012, 09:08:32 AM
I'm going to need a source on the original baller-as-fuck card that let you conjure a gun to straight cap demons.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 27, 2012, 09:50:51 AM
Those would all be busted as fuck and instantly see heavy Legacy play. They are almost strictly superior to the spells they invoke. The bolt mage and ritual mage are especially nuts. In fact the ritual mage is flat out ludicrous.

The funny thing is the blue one is the least unreasonable and it actually closest to a real card (Cursecatcher, Spiketail Hatchling, etc.).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on August 27, 2012, 10:29:18 AM
Yeah, they're the most powerful one-drop instants that ever existed in MTG (and Force Spike) plus a free creature that can be blinked to cause even further havoc.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 27, 2012, 10:52:29 AM
And in the case of the ritual, it's double combo-fuel, because it gives you mana AND a warm body to sacrifice.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 27, 2012, 10:56:30 AM
Actually the fog one might be sort of fair. Fog never sees play as-is and Dawnstrider + Squee never broke anything, so this Magus + some kind of repeatable blink effect would probably be similarly okay.

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Beat Bandit on August 27, 2012, 11:00:43 AM
The best part of this story is taking this long to realize those are real cards.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 27, 2012, 11:04:39 AM
Er... you mean fake cards, right? Because those are not even remotely real.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Beat Bandit on August 27, 2012, 11:16:51 AM
The best part of this story is when I don't even know anymore.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 31, 2012, 01:01:04 PM
So how about those Rakdos spoilers guys!~

(http://i.imgur.com/rVCQE.jpg)

Quote from: Mobiusman
I like how the flavour of rakdos in RtR is juggalos
Quote from: Uncreative Name
I guess Rakdos is full of Megadeth fans
Quote from: GP
that flavor text D:
Quote from: DerangedHermit
There's apparently a card called Rakdos Murder-Gras. (http://i.imgur.com/Wmkmy.gif)
Quote from: Mobiusman
I thought that was a joke but:
(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134927&stc=1&d=1346441255)
Quote from: Mongrel
So.... the people who were in charge of writing flavour text are now also responsible for card naming?
Quote from: JSexton
Rejected names: Carnageval, Fat Doomsday, and Shiv Tuesday.
Quote from: markdash
Diseaster
Quote from: Mobiusman
Quote
Carnageval
I wouldn't be too sure this didn't make it in
Quote from: KingRamz
At Murder-Gras, you get beads for tearing open your chest, revealing your pulsating heart
Quote from: DerangedHermit
Other potential names: Merry-Go-Killaround, Creapy the Clown, Fried Goat Stand, Fried Human Stand, Kayfabing Yokels.
Quote from: nemryn
Carnageousel
Quote from: starcross
Spring Break (someone's neck)
Quote from: Uncreative Name
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ykJNhDCppoE/TCLHnzCSlxI/AAAAAAAAAZg/QEKvzYetL8A/s1600/thankskilling_movie_poster.jpg)

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 31, 2012, 02:49:09 PM
Okay, this really is shaping up to be hilarious:

(http://art-fight.wizards.com/medias/img/cards-arts/MvArt.145170.jpg)

Other new art (lots) (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/6066501/facebookart.html)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 31, 2012, 04:17:06 PM
(http://art-fight.wizards.com/medias/img/cards-arts/MvArt.145170.jpg)

We'll know Wizards has hit bottom when we learn that the card is called "Don't Go There".
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 01, 2012, 06:03:18 PM
Shockland reprints finally confirmed tonight. No surprise there, I'm sure.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Nickasummers on September 01, 2012, 06:08:43 PM
Shockland reprints finally confirmed tonight. No surprise there, I'm sure.
Source? I was pretty sure it was going to happen, but I was still waiting for confirmation
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 01, 2012, 06:13:22 PM
All the land

(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/576899_362655330484003_1137279000_n.jpg)

Also:

(https://p.twimg.com/A1wMlUpCIAAeDwa.jpg:large)

And some people aren't too happy about this, er... display...

(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135078&d=1346551704)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 01, 2012, 06:23:49 PM
More stuff

(https://p.twimg.com/A1wNu9hCcAEcnbf.jpg)

(https://p.twimg.com/A1wNxTSCIAAlvXa.jpg)

(https://p.twimg.com/A1wOGESCEAEhGxi.jpg)

(https://p.twimg.com/A1wM2MjCIAARsvj.jpg)

(https://p.twimg.com/A1wN0Z2CQAAAjIj.jpg)

(https://p.twimg.com/A1wOY5kCQAAbaRt.jpg)

(https://p.twimg.com/A1wP9yoCAAIRcIh.jpg)

(https://p.twimg.com/A1wP-nbCYAAWDJl.jpg)

(https://p.twimg.com/A1wMr-3CIAAv1ft.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 01, 2012, 06:33:35 PM
I BELIEVE IN THE HEART OF THE CARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(https://p.twimg.com/A1wR1poCcAAg9-A.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 01, 2012, 06:39:49 PM
(https://p.twimg.com/A1wR7DVCEAA6iCg.jpg)
(https://p.twimg.com/A1wR_UsCcAMGxuC.jpg)
(https://p.twimg.com/A1wR9jPCUAAqqQ_.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 01, 2012, 06:46:19 PM
By the way, some of you guys may not have seen the five cards spoiled several days ago in Izzet vs. Golgari:

(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134536&stc=1&d=1346042458)  (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134535&stc=1&d=1346042458) 

(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134534&stc=1&d=1346042458)  (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134531&d=1346041312) 

(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134533&stc=1&d=1346042458)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 01, 2012, 06:53:08 PM
Seems there was also a guy in a cage too, but nobody took any pictures of him (surprise, surprise).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 01, 2012, 07:06:02 PM
Holy shit!

(https://p.twimg.com/A1wZfsvCAAA9ftf.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Nickasummers on September 01, 2012, 07:19:21 PM
Welp. I am excited.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 01, 2012, 08:10:31 PM
Minisite's up. Including several other cards and new mechanics. For those of you who hate fumbling around Wizards incredibly awfully-designed website as much as I do, here's the direct link (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Products.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/products/returntoravnica).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 01, 2012, 08:42:51 PM
(https://p.twimg.com/A1wR1poCcAAg9-A.jpg)

supersonic electronic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKO9h-gG4Qg#)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 01, 2012, 09:14:52 PM
Also, this picture from the MTG Pax Party is beyond hilarious.

(https://p.twimg.com/A1wg-EmCEAA1Ncl.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on September 02, 2012, 10:46:58 PM
New Niv-Mizzet is a fucking machine gun. New Isperia is arguably better, but also more boring—which I guess is appropriate, knowing the Azorius. Rakdos was probably my favorite guild to actually play during the original run, so I'm pretty eager to see the new version of their guildmaster.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 03, 2012, 04:27:24 AM
Eh... not sold on new Isperia. Never liked abilities that required your opponent to play along.

As for the Izzet cards so far, they're just great. They're really pushing R/U lately, which is something I've desperately wanted WotC to do for YEARS. It's way overdue, since out of all the colour pairs in the game, R/U cards have always been the worst (I may have ranted about that here before?). There was literally not a single gold card in MTG's history that could actualy push a player into R/U - nothing like Vindicate, Maelstrom Pulse, Pernicious Deed, Lightning Helix, or even Mystic Snake (ally colours of course have tons of such cards). The only example people ever came up with as a counter to this was Fire/Ice, which is (sadly) pretty weak by current standards. Even very recent attempts like Nin the Pain Artist were just too "cute" (A recurring problem with R/U).

But we're definitely getting stuff now! First Lighthouse was in the top 3 for the Innistrad 2-colour lands, then they showed us Izzet Charm and now Niz Mizzet 2.0. Hoping for even more stuff!

There's a gag on the Magic boards that somebody in R&D must've been building a cube and when they wanted to select good R/U gold cards for it, they just went "Oh."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 04, 2012, 09:58:34 PM
(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/rtr/yn1n1r28cd_en.jpg)

Sooooo... she's pretty damn cool and looks really fun, but man what an awful +1 ability.

I think that if a 5-mana vindicate turns out to be worth it in this format, she'll make it. She's a pain to deal with, but the creature that attacks her still gets to deal the damage, so she's hardly invincible. The rest (vindicating again, or even getting the ultimate) are just kind of gravy.

Both of the walkers this set seem to fit the Liliana 1.0 mold of underwhelming + ability, fantastic first - ability, and questionable ultimate.

Still, she's a neat card. The +1 ability is a cool design twist, even if it doesn't do a hell of a lot. I know being hard to kill sounds great, but the attacking creatures still get to deal damage to her and Standard already has an unprecedented number of ways to deal with planeswalkers.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 05, 2012, 06:41:07 AM
Myeh. Not good enough for Glissa.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ted Belmont on September 05, 2012, 06:51:25 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/rez1q.jpg)

SO PRETTY~

And then Wizards went and covered it with a plain black & white sleeve because WHO CARES
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 05, 2012, 08:36:25 PM
(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/rtr/j7irb14i7v_en.jpg)

Whoooooooooo nelly!

I think the specificity of the mana cost prevents it from entirely turning Legacy on it's ear, but it's definitely going to have a big impact.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 09, 2012, 07:57:40 PM
Which Guild-tan are you? (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=manga&illust_id=29500079)

:lol:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 09, 2012, 08:06:01 PM
Which Guild-tan is your waifu? (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=manga&illust_id=29500079)

Oh wow, so that thread on /tg/ wasn't kidding.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on September 11, 2012, 05:38:55 PM
Magic: The Gathering is now Turing-complete (http://www.toothycat.net/~hologram/Turing/HowItWorks.html).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 11, 2012, 05:52:05 PM
Oh. I was hoping it was a Turing Test using only a game of MTG to determine your subject's humanity.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 12, 2012, 07:05:02 PM
Quote from: Milo
I love the flavor text "cycle" on the Tempest-era elephants:

(http://magiccards.info/scans/en/tp/154.jpg)(http://magiccards.info/scans/en/tp/156.jpg)(http://magiccards.info/scans/en/tp/114.jpg)(http://magiccards.info/scans/en/sh/57.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 17, 2012, 10:55:16 PM
FYI, some kid opened a box, so we're only 8 cards short of the full spoiler.

Though interestingly, we're still missing two mythics. Probably a GW x-spell and a mono-red token-maker of some kind.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 18, 2012, 04:27:15 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/E59fw.jpg)

It would be difficult to pull a win off with this card, but oh my god, that flavour.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 18, 2012, 04:30:01 PM
Oh man, I bet that's goin' in Zedruu. :D
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on September 18, 2012, 05:58:10 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/E59fw.jpg)

It would be difficult to pull a win off with this card, but oh my god, that flavour.

I could see decks built around giving this card proliferates and effects that add any type of counter. This thing is going to be a real force in modern.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 19, 2012, 08:11:30 AM
Quote from: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/commander/24889-Commander-Official-Banned-List-And-Format-Philosophy.html
Banned
Primeval Titan
Worldfire

Unbanned
Kokusho, the Evening Star

Banned As Commander
Kokusho, the Evening Star

(http://i.imgur.com/usI8R.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on September 19, 2012, 09:28:52 AM
But I just wanted to watch the world burn :(
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on September 19, 2012, 01:12:43 PM
Well, that's shitty.  Two of my decks use primeval.  Might even be three, if Riku uses it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 19, 2012, 01:15:10 PM
Guess THAT card just got cheaper!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 19, 2012, 03:28:14 PM
Glad I saved my pennies. What do you suppose people will turn to in its place?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 19, 2012, 04:22:50 PM
It's EDH, so it'll depend entirely on the deck. The complaint about Primeval Titan was that it was literally always an auto-play in green.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 19, 2012, 05:45:21 PM
The complaint about Primeval Titan was that it was literally always an auto-play in green.

No wonder it got banned. I don't think it's worth nearly 40 pages on MTGSalvation though.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 19, 2012, 06:56:08 PM
Unfortunately, the membership at MTGSalvation disagrees.

Hey maybe if Sheldon pisses off enough people, he'll start to relinquish his control of the format. Haha, maybe.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 21, 2012, 08:01:09 PM
Top right corner.

(http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/423598_10151422847728312_1688599477_n.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 21, 2012, 09:03:27 PM
Where can I get one?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on September 22, 2012, 04:45:33 AM
You would have had to go to PAX.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 22, 2012, 08:51:15 PM
I think this is my favorite post regarding the recent EDH bans.

Quote
For any deck that ran Primeval Titan and actually intended to make proper use of him, being told that he is now banned and that you should simply find a replacement for him is like being pushed down the basement stairs and breaking your leg, and then being told to simply walk it off.

http://tf2wiki.net/w/images/e/e0/Heavy_domination10_Do_I_smell_soiled_baby_diaper.wav (http://tf2wiki.net/w/images/e/e0/Heavy_domination10_Do_I_smell_soiled_baby_diaper.wav)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on September 22, 2012, 08:59:19 PM
What do they mean by "proper use"? Get 2 forests? If you're not fetching Cradle and Eye into Kozilek I don't see why you even bother.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on September 23, 2012, 01:34:41 AM
Because otherwise, playing three lands per turn is perfectly balanced.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on September 23, 2012, 09:31:57 AM
Only if they're Adventurer's Guildhouse, Untaidake and Sorrow's Path.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on September 23, 2012, 12:15:16 PM
That led me to making a Cube with the worst rated cards in Gatherer:

http://tappedout.net/mtg-cube-drafts/the-most-terrible-cube/ (http://tappedout.net/mtg-cube-drafts/the-most-terrible-cube/)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 02, 2012, 08:27:08 AM
Therese Nielsen talks about creating the art for the new promo Hanna card (http://teresenielsen.typepad.com/the_world_of_terese_niels/2012/09/hanna-ships-navigator-the-girl-next-door-.html)

(in case the card is news to you, it was featured on DOTP online... might be in the new Commander's Arsenal this fall, but that's just speculation)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 02, 2012, 09:10:32 AM
Somehow, it wouldn't surprise me to see her done up as an oversized card. That would really piss off the purists.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Sharkey on October 04, 2012, 07:17:44 PM
I haven't played this game in over a decade, but I blinked at that Titan thing. How the fuck did that even get printed? Kind of shit that used to make me rub my hands in a  :glee: ful manner.

NOW YOU FUCKED UP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGp9P6QvMjY#)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on October 04, 2012, 08:28:40 PM
There's a whole cycle of them.  White brings permanents back from the graveyard, blue taps permanents down and effects that target it cost 2 more mana, black spits out zombie tokens, and red burns and also has firebreathing
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 04, 2012, 09:09:45 PM
How the fuck did that even get printed?

It's an unfortunate effect of the introduction of the "mythic" rarity. The design team had to make cards printed at mythic feel more powerful than a rare. Of course, it doesn't always succeed... (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=244691)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Classic on October 04, 2012, 09:16:44 PM
What? Is the point of that card to deck your opponent?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on October 04, 2012, 09:35:55 PM
No, the point of that card is to change a game where you're losing into a game where you're losing and your opponent is annoyed by how long it's taking to kill you.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Sharkey on October 04, 2012, 09:39:06 PM
What? Is the point of that card to deck your opponent?

Actually, with enough reset buttons and deck-riflers that'd be a damn valid strategy. Especially with a smattering of blue, or in... whateverthehell they're calling Type-II nowadays.

Fuck you. I am so not getting into this again.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on October 05, 2012, 04:29:29 AM
Meet one of my favorite cards from the last five years.

(http://tnypic.net/images/8ab30.jpg) (http://tnypic.net/)

Combined with the right kind of defenders...

(http://tnypic.net/images/20c63.jpg) (http://tnypic.net/)

It's a very fun deck.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on October 05, 2012, 04:39:03 AM
If by 'fun' you mean 'makes the opponent want to jump the table and kick you in the dick'.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Cait on October 05, 2012, 04:50:25 AM
Meet one of my favorite cards from the last five years.

It might help if you link to gatherer or somewhere else that doesn't delete the images shortly after. Just a thought.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Beat Bandit on October 05, 2012, 05:04:30 AM
If by 'fun' you mean 'makes the opponent want to jump the table and kick you in the dick'.
Is there some other way to describe a fun deck?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 05, 2012, 05:36:09 AM
If by 'fun' you mean 'makes the opponent want to jump the table and kick you in the dick'.

(http://magiccards.info/scans/en/m11/11.jpg)

(http://magiccards.info/scans/en/rav/72.jpg)

heh
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ted Belmont on October 05, 2012, 06:43:29 AM
Meet one of my favorite cards from the last five years.

(http://tnypic.net/images/8ab30.jpg) (http://tnypic.net/)

Combined with the right kind of defenders...

(http://tnypic.net/images/20c63.jpg) (http://tnypic.net/)

It's a very fun deck.

Now in Standard-legal flavor:

(http://i.imgur.com/uAKiS.jpg),

(http://i.imgur.com/jiOx8.jpg)
or
(http://i.imgur.com/AgoUS.jpg),

and

(http://i.imgur.com/KGbtG.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on October 05, 2012, 07:10:38 AM
I don't quite grok how the Hatchling fits in.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ted Belmont on October 05, 2012, 07:15:50 AM
Cheap defender, ties up the red zone while you drill away at your opponent's library. It lacks the built in mill of the hedron crab, but Innistrad block has no shortage of mill.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 05, 2012, 09:30:43 AM
Too bad we're at an all-time high for having cards that reshuffle your yard into your library.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Bongo Bill on October 05, 2012, 11:35:31 AM
T: shuffle your library into itself
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Cait on October 06, 2012, 05:37:04 AM
(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=141959&type=card)
(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=48925&type=card)
(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=3182&type=card)
(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=146168&type=card)

(If anyone knows a way to make two images sit side-by-side in BBcode, I'd like to know of such wizardry.)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 06, 2012, 06:12:23 AM
Well, I was thinking of actually useful ones that see play, like the legendary eldrazi or the new worldspine wurm.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Cait on October 06, 2012, 06:57:47 AM
Oh, I know. I was riffing off Bongo's comment, looking for the cards that came closest.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 06, 2012, 07:15:37 AM
Don't forget the card that was designed as an anti-mill solution:

(http://magiccards.info/scans/en/tsts/77.jpg)

What? Is the point of that card to deck your opponent?

Actually, with enough reset buttons and deck-riflers that'd be a damn valid strategy. Especially with a smattering of blue, or in... whateverthehell they're calling Type-II nowadays.

Fuck you. I am so not getting into this again.

That reminds me of the story in the ancient Pocket Player's Guide about how one of the playtesters had a deck where he would Swords to Plowshares your dudes and then cast Timetwister, over and over until you were bloated with life but completely out of creatures. Then he would kill you with Llanowar Elves.

I wonder if that strategy would still be viable...
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on October 06, 2012, 11:20:15 AM
Except for Swords to Plowshares only being legal in formats other much more dangerous cards are also legal in, no problem.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 06, 2012, 12:24:12 PM
Wellll Type 1 is dead and Legacy looks a lot like Type 1 used to, only with more creatures.

So yeah. Sadly that deck ain't gonna work.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 08, 2012, 10:45:34 PM
If anyone can get me Russian Lotleth Trolls anywhere I will pay quite highly for them.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 10, 2012, 07:36:22 PM
Three Nivmagus Elementals in a fat pack.

THREE.

(http://www.gifflix.com/files/1504230d3af1.gif)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 14, 2012, 05:58:48 PM
CARNIVAL HELLSTEED

(http://i.imgur.com/L3YJi.gif)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 16, 2012, 12:33:36 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/AYib0.jpg)

This is the legit art for the playmat that will be given out to the Top 8 at PT Philly.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 16, 2012, 03:36:04 PM
Uh... why?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 16, 2012, 03:37:50 PM
Why the fuck not!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 18, 2012, 07:27:23 PM
http://magicbinderfullofwomen.tumblr.com/ (http://magicbinderfullofwomen.tumblr.com/)

The first thing I thought when I saw this was "these are so badly templated and off-colour."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 18, 2012, 07:41:15 PM
Cancel any INTERRUPT?

Man, it's one thing to make lamely unfunny mash-up MTG jokes. It's another thing entire to do when you haven't even played MTG since sometime prior to April 1999.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 20, 2012, 03:46:33 PM
This just in: Wizards is releasing a set in June called "Modern Masters" which includes cards from 8th Edition to Alara Reborn. 229 Cards, 53 Rares, 15 Mythics. Packs are 6.99, no basic lands, a foil in every pack, and it'll have tokens.

Also, this:

(http://i.imgur.com/Y7cKp.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 20, 2012, 03:50:52 PM
Yeah, I want that goyf (probably will try and get swaps for my existing english ones and just pay the difference).

Wizards is just going crazy with the limited edition product lately (if you think this is going to stay at $7 a pack...).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Lady Duke on October 20, 2012, 08:02:45 PM
I don't want them to make that.  Now I have to sell mine or it'll be worthless D:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Cait on October 21, 2012, 08:34:24 AM
The reprint is Mythic in a short-print set with boosters nearly double the price and boxes with 2/3 the normal packs. And it's a different art and card frame, which is important to some buyers. FS Tarmo might go down a bit, but not that much.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 21, 2012, 08:55:12 AM
It's really too soon to say. The two big factors at work are a) What are the other cards in the set? and b) Just how much is actually being printed.

The set's 250 cards, so if most of the 250-odd cards are chaff, demand won't be that high. It's certainly possible - Just think of the Timeshifted subset or a lot of other recent boxed products. I mean, I'm sure some Modern staple cards will be reprinted, but how many and which ones? Wizards has used 1-2 good cards to sell sets full of drek before. Also, the fact that there are no NEW cards at all will depress demand (yes, there are alternate art whores like me, but that's a world of difference from actual new cards).

As for how much is being printed, well, it may be limited like FTV-style products (i.e. genuinely limited with little drop in prices for the originals), or it may be limited like the Commander decks (i.e. not really all that limited). If the latter, there's a very good chance that any of the reprints in this set will bring prices down in a similar manner to a recent Core Set reprint.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 21, 2012, 12:16:25 PM
Well, sources say it's going to be draftable... so I assume there will be a percentage of guff cards. I'm not that keen on Tarmogoyfs, so I'm not worried about its price either way.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 21, 2012, 12:34:26 PM
Man, we are now officially at five sets a year, aren't we?

Or like ten if you count stupid boxed sets...
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Lady Duke on October 21, 2012, 05:31:49 PM
God damn it, I'm going to have to sell him aren't I.  QQQQQQQQ
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 21, 2012, 07:16:40 PM
If you're actually using him, why bother?

Though, it's pretty clear that if you sell now and buy him again later you will either gain money or at least just break even.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 22, 2012, 07:04:51 AM
God damn it, I'm going to have to sell him aren't I.  QQQQQQQQ

I think you'll be fine.

Quote from: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/218
The Modern Masters set is a 229-card expansion that contains reprints of Modern-legal cards from Eighth Edition through Alara Reborn. The set will not be Standard legal and will be produced in very conservative quantities—this is a bit of an experiment for us, and we want to get it right; we will not be increasing the quantity of any card in circulation by more than a fraction of what is already out there.

Hello, $12 boosters.

Quote
As mentioned before, the product will be on sale in stores on June 7, 2013. If my guess is correct, this is going to be a hot item—we aren't making very much of it, remember—so you may want to ping your store owner ahead of time to set aside a box for a draft. Let me tell you, battling storm versus dredge versus Faeries in draft is an unforgettable experience, kind of half-way between a normal set and Cube.

Okaaaay, $17 Boosters.

Quote
We won't make that mistake again. We don't want to turn cards from scarce to abundant in the blink of an eye, but we do want to alter the availability by a matter of degrees, all with the goal of growing the reach of the Modern format. Ideally, over time, any short-term drop in desirability of older cards you may own will be recouped as more players enter the format. I can't say it enough: our print run is very small, especially compared to what we're making for our current headliner sets like Return to Ravnica. We're playing in a very delicate space, and we know that, but the promise of the Modern format was that we would address card availability issues, and we are focused on figuring out the best way to do that.

Let's just drop all pretenses and call this From The Vault: Modern.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 22, 2012, 08:41:49 PM
Speaking of expensive product:

(http://i.imgur.com/EM2CT.jpg)

I think this puts the Commander's Arsenal out of the reach of all but the most affluent collectors.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 30, 2012, 07:52:44 AM
So the only articles out so far are in Spanish (this is unlikely to change), but apparently the Spanish government (specifically the Spanish competition bureau) is suing Wizards for monopolistic behaviour in keeping their European prices high as compared to US prices (in Europe, box prices are generally higher or at best the same in Euros as they are in the states in USD, which is a 30% - 50% surcharge).

I think this may have come about because the same bureau also ran an investigation into five major Spanish retailers for running a price-fixing scheme. The twist is that the retail price fixing scheme was not raise prices, but to lower them so that they could compete with kids buying boxes from the US and getting someone to ship them to Europe That's banned by WotC of course, but it's common in Europe anyway as it's still cheaper then retail even with shipping.

So WotC decided to ding a bunch of retailers by filing a complaint and are now being hoist on their own petard. Hee hee.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: on November 05, 2012, 04:42:59 PM
My brother sent me this for a birthday gift. (http://i.imgur.com/JWGhm.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Bongo Bill on November 05, 2012, 04:58:05 PM
What's on the sixth face?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 05, 2012, 05:00:10 PM
Was it solved when you got it?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: on November 05, 2012, 11:12:23 PM
What's on the sixth face?

The MTG Logo
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Cait on November 06, 2012, 05:06:42 AM
$50 (if available): https://abugames.com/item183614-new/0/70-magic/Rubik's-Cube---Magic-the-Gathering.html (https://abugames.com/item183614-new/0/70-magic/Rubik's-Cube---Magic-the-Gathering.html)
$70 (Available on eBay!): http://www.ebay.com/itm/Magic-Gathering-Promo-Rubiks-Cube-great-shape-MtG-mAgIc-/180992048725 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Magic-Gathering-Promo-Rubiks-Cube-great-shape-MtG-mAgIc-/180992048725)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 13, 2012, 07:04:17 AM
The third set in Return to Ravnica sounds like an iPhone game (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/1101).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on November 13, 2012, 07:21:02 AM
dragon's maze
what's another word for maze?

a dungeon
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 13, 2012, 07:51:25 AM
what's another word for maze?

Corn.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 20, 2012, 10:37:33 PM
When stats nerds and MTG collide (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzQiDu0Idu40TlhrYUcwRHNOOFE/edit?pli=1)

Haha, oh wow.

I don't know how useful it is - he has to patch over a lot of places where data is simply not available, putting the math in doubt, though there's some stuff like the bit about "Why MTG cards cannot be treated as an investment overall" that looks pretty solid and uses all real sourced information.

Anyway, useful or not, it's impressive at least for the drop-dead serious way in which the author's approached the topic. A pretty neat effort.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 21, 2012, 06:21:00 AM
And now, spoilers:

(http://i.imgur.com/tVD5R.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/j6i6V.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/iFnRY.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/F0OJU.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/CvOtE.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on November 21, 2012, 11:20:41 AM
I love that flavor text on Enter the Infinite.

ALL OF THEM.  ALL THE IDEAS.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 22, 2012, 07:08:22 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/9Zr20.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/nhIVx.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/kZaSB.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 08, 2012, 08:47:47 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/6SOz6.jpg)

Stupid Sexy Mimeoplasm.jpg
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 02, 2013, 11:39:53 AM
(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/features/feat228b_ugoh63m1ri_en.jpg.jpg)

Oh cripes
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 02, 2013, 12:03:33 PM
We were talking about this guy. He's not as impressive as he looks... in fact he shares a lot of common traits with "punisher" cards (like browbeat or vexing devil).

- Seems undercosted and powerful if you just take it at face value ("you can get a huge indestructible guy for four mana, wow!")
- The opponent makes the most important decision for the card (does he get bigger or is he ignored)
- You can constrain the opponent's choice (and thus give the card a shot at being playable) by building around the card, but not through the card itself

If that second point sounds kind of cockeyed, I'll explain. Most of the time, a planeswalker has some way of interfering with the opponent's decision. In fact, if a planeswalker doesn have some ability to "defend themselves", then we know he's usually seen as useless. But this gideon has nothing, so the oppponent is pretty much always free to make the best choice for them: Do they attack Gideon, or just ignore him and go straight for you?

In the same way that vexing devil can be a good card in a red aggro/burn deck, I think the new Gideon is useful too and should see some play, but only if you've built around him. In Gideon's case, it's by playing a control or aggro-control strategy, probably with several wraths, so you can protect him until he becomes huge or just use him as an effective and strong beater that survives wraths.

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on January 02, 2013, 02:05:14 PM
But it's okay, Zendikar getting fucked over is ALL HIS FAULT.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 02, 2013, 04:04:45 PM
I hope he gives Jace a swirly.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 08, 2013, 07:21:55 AM
(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138581&d=1357642100)

Goblin Scrapper* 2R
Creature - Goblin Berserker
Creatures you control have haste and attack each combat, if able.
2/2

:attn:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 09, 2013, 10:21:07 PM
This is an actual Magic card:

(http://www.mythicspoiler.com/gtc/cards/crablegshark.jpg)

FISH CRAB BATTAL
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Nickasummers on January 09, 2013, 10:24:23 PM
Those silly Simic will fuse any 2 animals they can get their hands on.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 10, 2013, 09:29:37 AM
This is an actual Magic card:

(http://www.mythicspoiler.com/gtc/cards/crablegshark.jpg)

FISH CRAB BATTAL

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/---S3oZaaUIU/UAYHwcndbMI/AAAAAAAAAHk/tokimZs2Zr0/s1600/Gyo2.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 10, 2013, 11:30:03 AM
(http://s3.gatheringmagic.com/uploads/2012/10/24/MJ_2.jpg)

Schmazzgordios Guild Week (http://www.gatheringmagic.com/mjscott-102412-schmazzgordios-guild-week/)

The article is sort of hit-and-miss quality-wise, but it does have its gems:

Quote
Gruul – Is this even a guild? Isn’t it basically a bunch of dudes wailing on each other with clubs in a vacant lot? Serious questions.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Cait on January 11, 2013, 08:32:32 AM
This is an actual Magic card:

(http://www.mythicspoiler.com/gtc/cards/crablegshark.jpg)

FISH CRAB BATTAL

That turned out to be a mockup of the English version (it was originally spoiled as a foreign card), not the actual one. Though nothing changed other than the official name being Shambleshark. Which is acceptable, I suppose.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Misha on January 13, 2013, 03:05:00 AM
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138200&d=1356930214 (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138200&d=1356930214)

It might just be that I haven't slept but I fucking hate this card's flavor-text.

A) It's bland.

B) It doesn't make any fucking sense. The creature doesn't have unblockable or flying or fear or anything, and yet they say they use it for spying. It's also got GATEWAY right in the name. How this card managed to not be a creature with defender I have no fucking clue. "Yeah, we use this infinitely gigantic not-sneaky monster to learn secrets"

C) Shades have NEVER been the sneaky infiltraty creature type. That's what specters are for!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on January 13, 2013, 06:30:43 AM
The whole Gate mechanic is the weakest link, yeah. Maybe it will figure out next set.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 20, 2013, 10:39:00 PM
Full spoiler today and once again Wizards demonstrates their effortless mastery with flavour text:

(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/gtc/hxyzo9fn7v_en.jpg)

(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/gtc/dktwqdwpom_en.jpg)

 :whoops:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 21, 2013, 09:11:12 AM
Is this trying to be humour? I can't tell.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Ted Belmont on January 21, 2013, 09:15:27 AM
Maybe they got the same robots that write the Archie comic strips to do their flavor text.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on January 21, 2013, 07:16:23 PM
... wow, Extort seems like a really powerful ability.  Is it common among creatures in the set?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on January 22, 2013, 06:59:39 AM
Nine creatures have it. Go to http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/gatecrash/cig (http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/gatecrash/cig) and click Orzhov for the list.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on January 22, 2013, 10:13:00 AM
Any good white or black mana engines in the current format?  I mean, 1 mana for 1 life seems like a good trade, when it's something you can be churning and repeating constantly.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: NexAdruin on January 22, 2013, 11:31:59 AM
Blind Obedience is probably the best extort card, but I sort of doubt Orzhov will be seeing serious play. Syndic of Tithes is a cool card because it's human and pretty cheap for what it does (1W for a 2/2 human with extort).

I need to get a playset of Boros Elites to go in my dark sacrifice deck.

I also think I'll run modern but not standard Dimir. Cipher is a great ability and old Dimir had some unblockables.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 24, 2013, 11:07:03 AM
This is seriously the best goofy-ass casual deck:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63071156/inet/rawr01.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 24, 2013, 01:55:07 PM
(http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/V838_mon-640x379.jpg)

(http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/general/quicksilver_amulet.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 25, 2013, 12:17:15 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/AMa6FPY.jpg?1)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 30, 2013, 10:48:46 AM
(http://nerdpolish.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/magic.jpg?w=604)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 30, 2013, 11:57:59 AM
argh

ugh

colours... out of order...
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on January 30, 2013, 01:26:22 PM
No choice for it.  Remove the hand as penance, try again with the other.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: TA on January 30, 2013, 03:20:03 PM
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/c3d82ad94026681fe3633da074c4c3b5/tumblr_mgoyg1fKea1r3bmeoo1_500.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on February 01, 2013, 07:43:09 AM
God damn it, Argyle.

GOD DAMN IT.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: RoboticDinosaur on February 01, 2013, 09:13:53 AM
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/c3d82ad94026681fe3633da074c4c3b5/tumblr_mgoyg1fKea1r3bmeoo1_500.jpg)
::(: (I hate Vocaloids)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on February 10, 2013, 01:42:12 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/Np33XrE.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 10, 2013, 06:32:42 PM
:3c
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 13, 2013, 02:30:32 PM
(http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/044/5/9/mtg_valentine_s_day___liliana_fan_service_edition_by_polishtamales-d5utkfe.jpg)

(http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/044/c/7/mtg_valentine_s_day___ral_zarek_by_polishtamales-d5utjss.jpg)

(http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/044/8/9/mtg_valentine_s_day___chandra_by_polishtamales-d5utk9b.jpg)

(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/044/6/d/mtg_valentine_s_day___elspeth_by_polishtamales-d5utk1p.jpg)

(http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/044/a/0/mtg_valentine_s_day___jace_by_polishtamales-d5utk43.jpg)

(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/044/e/2/mtg_valentine_s_day___karn_and_jhoira_by_polishtamales-d5utj5n.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Grath on February 21, 2013, 01:01:49 PM
Anyone on here do EDH and/or online Magic playing shenanigans?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 21, 2013, 04:30:45 PM
Well, I know I play EDH, as does Mongrel and McDohl.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on February 22, 2013, 01:11:31 PM
Got some of these today. Ahahaha, yesssssss.

(http://magiccards.info/scans/it/gtc/143.jpg)

Pope game!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on February 23, 2013, 09:06:25 AM
I got a mention on the Top And Go Show.

The Top And Go Update: From the Vault 20, Dating Sharuum, and More! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxGzNcnesNk#ws)

Curse my rapier wit!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 10, 2013, 08:50:34 PM
The return of You Make The Card! (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/238)

 :pop:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on March 14, 2013, 04:51:19 PM
So every Friday night my friends and I have a casual Magic-fest wherein we try to out-circuitous and out-ridiculous each other with broken decks from beyond the boundaries of format legality—one guy uses a playset of Cloudpost/Glimmerpost and the full Urzatron to summon a massive Eldrazi army from outside the game with Spawnsire of Ulamog, another guy is obsessed with getting Jin-Gitaxias, Consecrated Sphinx, and Psychosis Crawler onto the battlefield simultaneously, this chick has started showing up with an actual Relentless Rats deck using Thrumming Stone, Eldrazi Monument, and Akroma's Memorial, and I'm usually annoying people with Mana Breach or Bloodchief Ascension or Burning Vengeance + Life From The Loam + retrace spells. It's good fun.

Anyway.

I recently came into possession of four copies of Zedruu the Greathearted. What should I do with these?

Things I've already considered: Jinxed cards (Jinxed Idol, Jinxed Choker, etc.), Steel Golem, Sarcomancy, Dark Tutelage, Evil Eye of Orms-By-Gore, Delaying Shield, Illusions of Grandeur/Mediocrity, Bazaar Trader/Donate, Loxodon Peacekeeper, Sleeper Agent, and stuff like Oblivion Ring/Journey to Nowhere/Pacifism/etc.. What else should I be considering?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 14, 2013, 05:00:34 PM
Starr was trying to build an actual constructed Zedruu deck at some point. I should ask her.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 14, 2013, 05:42:01 PM
Spine of Ish Shah + Puca's Mischief.

Venser the Sojourner to get your stuff back and activate its 187 abilities.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on March 16, 2013, 12:46:41 PM
Relentless Rats deck using Thrumming Stone, Eldrazi Monument, and Akroma's Memorial,

Is he running 4 dark rits to spit out a thrumming stone turn 1?

Because that's the master plan. :3
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 18, 2013, 08:18:11 AM
Hahaha oh wow. You Make The Card is doing a recount (http://"http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/239"). Apparently lands beat enchantments by less than thirty votes out of more than eighty-eight thousand.

I have a hypothesis that the reason those two were the front-runners was because:

1. They are the two most durable permanent types. They each have only two colours that can deal with them in any meaningful way (lands: red/green, enchantments: green/white).

2. In recent years we've seen just how much they've expanded the design space for lands. They have nigh-uncounterable colourless abilities that can be abused often.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 18, 2013, 08:25:05 AM
They're not doing a recount, they're doing a voting run-off.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Cait on March 19, 2013, 07:09:23 AM
I have a simpler hypothesis for why those two were the front-runners: YMC1 was a Creature, YMC2 was an Artifact, and YMC3 was a Spell. We've already covered those territories.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Grath on March 19, 2013, 09:10:55 AM
So every Friday night my friends and I have a casual Magic-fest wherein we try to out-circuitous and out-ridiculous each other with broken decks from beyond the boundaries of format legality—one guy uses a playset of Cloudpost/Glimmerpost and the full Urzatron to summon a massive Eldrazi army from outside the game with Spawnsire of Ulamog, another guy is obsessed with getting Jin-Gitaxias, Consecrated Sphinx, and Psychosis Crawler onto the battlefield simultaneously, this chick has started showing up with an actual Relentless Rats deck using Thrumming Stone, Eldrazi Monument, and Akroma's Memorial, and I'm usually annoying people with Mana Breach or Bloodchief Ascension or Burning Vengeance + Life From The Loam + retrace spells. It's good fun.

Anyway.

I recently came into possession of four copies of Zedruu the Greathearted. What should I do with these?

Things I've already considered: Jinxed cards (Jinxed Idol, Jinxed Choker, etc.), Steel Golem, Sarcomancy, Dark Tutelage, Evil Eye of Orms-By-Gore, Delaying Shield, Illusions of Grandeur/Mediocrity, Bazaar Trader/Donate, Loxodon Peacekeeper, Sleeper Agent, and stuff like Oblivion Ring/Journey to Nowhere/Pacifism/etc.. What else should I be considering?

Thoughtlash. Steel Golem. Transcendence (especially if people have life-gain - it's better in EDH when we all start with 40 life). Celestial Dawn (in EDH with an opponent not playing white.)

Edit: Pyromancer's Swath, Puca's Mischief, Conjured Currency, etc
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on March 21, 2013, 03:47:35 PM
Oh geez, Pyromancer's Swath is perfect. Steel Golem was sold out when I tried to pick some up.

In unrelated news, my wife's hatred of Magic has been thawing for a while, and given how much we enjoy Dominion, it seems like it's only a matter of time. I was thinking about making introductory decks to learn with, but then today I saw one of those booster battle packs (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/797) at Target. Anybody tried using one of these to teach someone to play? Just how terrible of an idea is this?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Grath on March 21, 2013, 06:41:21 PM
Oh geez, Pyromancer's Swath is perfect. Steel Golem was sold out when I tried to pick some up.

In unrelated news, my wife's hatred of Magic has been thawing for a while, and given how much we enjoy Dominion, it seems like it's only a matter of time. I was thinking about making introductory decks to learn with, but then today I saw one of those booster battle packs (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/797) at Target. Anybody tried using one of these to teach someone to play? Just how terrible of an idea is this?

Tuesday night in EDH I donated Pyromancer's Swath to the Prime Speaker Zegana player. He was not amused. So I said "What? I'm just trying to help out your burn spells." "... What burn spells?" "Exactly."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on March 24, 2013, 11:10:44 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/uQMgVRK.jpg)

"We're ready, master." "I'm not ready!"
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on March 24, 2013, 11:16:11 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/uQMgVRK.jpg)

"We're ready, master." "I'm not ready!"

"I've got the brain!" "Huh-uhh!"
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on April 12, 2013, 01:42:52 AM
(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/dgm/tiwoirwiixix/89c4h9ziu2_EN.jpg)

Wow, decent flavour text!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on April 13, 2013, 09:01:47 AM
Okay, that's an adorable card.

Gross and creepy, but adorable.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 06, 2013, 11:49:07 AM
Why

(http://i.imgur.com/ZiHGdqX.png)

couldn't

(http://i.imgur.com/vJa4FdS.png)

they

(http://i.imgur.com/Y2T8519.png)

bring

(http://i.imgur.com/75RJmJb.png)

back

(http://i.imgur.com/n1VAuiK.png)

Allies

(http://i.imgur.com/KpxPFsu.png)

instead?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on May 06, 2013, 12:43:17 PM
The redesign is a complete turd. Slivers as humans in rubber suits? Fuck off.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 06, 2013, 01:17:12 PM
The redesign is a complete turd. Slivers as humans in rubber suits? Fuck off.

I don't think I can agree hard enough here.

EDIT: Loved this comment.

Quote from:
Imagine if the star trek TCG had a new card for locutus of the borg and the art was some random guy's facebook picture
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on May 22, 2013, 04:28:47 PM
Speaking of changes sure to infuriate longtime players, it looks like the Legendary rule and Planeswalker uniqueness rules are changing to be pretty much all upside. Legendaries now only check for duplicates controlled by the same player, and when they find one, that player gets to choose one to keep. Planeswalkers are operating the same way, so every player can have their own Jace simultaneously, but now it's also possible to use one Jace's loyalty ability and then cast another, sacrifice the first, and immediately use the second one's ability as well.

People are reacting about the same as you'd expect: ranting and weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 22, 2013, 04:48:38 PM
I don't really think it's a big deal, but I can certainly see why they're pissed.

There IS very much a part of me that isn't happy with the "No downsides" policy they've had for a few years now. I just don't think it's good game design to have no cards with drawbacks. I love the tension created by a player racing not to get ganked by his own card.

Anyway, apparently the rule change is because Theros block coming this fall is going to be Legend-themed. Also, Grandeur looks like it will be one of the marquee keywords in Theros.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on May 22, 2013, 05:48:05 PM
Heh, that's funny. I just looked up the exact rules for planeswalkers two days ago.

As someone who started playing magic when Ice Age was the newest set (well, not counting a brief flirtation with Revised in grade school) and quit about two months after Legions came out (I think. Was Legins after Darksteel?), getting back into the game has been an interesting experience.

Some things I've noted:

Creatures 4 CMC and above are a lot, lot, lot (and I mean a fucking LOT) stronger than they used to be. Back in my day, the strongest thing to reanimate was a Reya or a Verdant Force. Now you can drop shit that prevents the opponent from attacking or flat out denies spells of a color from being cast.

Weenies have crept up in power, too, but not nearly as much as the mid-rangers and the fatties.

Creature enchants are better, which is nice, because with exception of Blanchwood Armor, Rancor, Control Magic, Ancestral Mask (in the right deck) and Armadillo Cloak they were pretty worthless as far as I can remember. Even Unholy Strength, the original staple of black aggro, was out.

Equipment... is not really better than Sword of X and X. Except Batterskull.

Counterspells and Land Destruction are nerfed. Yay! Fuck those two things in particular.

Hand discard is about the same strength. Raven's Crime is a fucking amazing card, I wish I had had access to it when I played type 2 mono black aggro.

Infect is a cool mechanic.

No more mana burn, eh? One of my favorite old tricks was overloading an opponent's mana pool with Vineyards and using any extra I couldn't find use for to put regeneration shields on my trolls and boas. oh well.

Overall, I think Magic is in a stronger position, in terms of play. I'm glad to see it's still going strong. I don't plan to start playing seriously/tournament level again, but it's been interesting to catch up.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: on May 22, 2013, 07:17:09 PM
It's a much "safer" game in terms of marketability.

Which means less complex.

:old:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on May 22, 2013, 09:54:29 PM
Patch notes: fixed bug that kept players from having Jace in play at all times.

Roadmap: Consider having players put Jace in play as soon as the game starts.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on May 22, 2013, 11:54:41 PM
"Our market research shows that players don't like having to check the board state."
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on May 23, 2013, 01:35:24 AM
Now legal: Dark Depths + Thespian's Stage.

AHAHA
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 05, 2013, 06:25:19 AM
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/6c543d2367fc31ca5eb023db7efb0feb/tumblr_mnuy0gXBEf1s9rpajo1_r3_500.gif)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 05, 2013, 08:35:53 AM
That reminds me of this:

(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=142932&d=1370358561)

Quote
"We're actually making chandra good this time" is apparently enough of a gimmick to base an entire core set around
Quote
which will make the eventual whiff all the more hilarious
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on June 24, 2013, 05:08:24 AM
(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/170/e/b/magic_combat__inn_rtr_standard_by_internet_ninja-d69s5g6.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 28, 2013, 09:55:30 AM
Quote from: scribejones
this could get out of control pretty quick: http://www.igniteyoursparkcontest.com/gallery.php (http://www.igniteyoursparkcontest.com/gallery.php)

or maybe it already has
Quote
Blake C.
Swagferno the Fierce has swagnetic powers that make ladies clothering burn off.
(http://i.imgur.com/KFGpxKG.png)

(http://www.promethiumcloud.com/igniteyourspark/bin/images/users/plane_5261716591372450014881.png)

(http://www.promethiumcloud.com/igniteyourspark/bin/images/users/plane_646004061372450110176.png)

(http://www.promethiumcloud.com/igniteyourspark/bin/images/users/plane_1000002070197081372452928967.png)

(http://www.promethiumcloud.com/igniteyourspark/bin/images/users/plane_5070348671372446355223.png)

Quote
Michael P.
Chandra's assistant needs to be someone who can cool her down when she heats up. A water wizard would be just the person.
(http://www.promethiumcloud.com/igniteyourspark/bin/images/users/plane_5005585381372449549268.png)

Quote
BELIAL a merchant that is always ready to sell, trade, and buy for the right price.
(http://i.imgur.com/n6GjG4L.png)

(http://www.promethiumcloud.com/igniteyourspark/bin/images/users/plane_11894316871372442655360.png)

(http://www.promethiumcloud.com/igniteyourspark/bin/images/users/plane_5090366641372449601105.png)

(http://www.promethiumcloud.com/igniteyourspark/bin/images/users/plane_14925723471372455250949.png)

Quote
Amber K.
There are many secrets to her past and many in that of her present and future and terrible things have been done but we all must do what we can to survive and become what we are.
(http://www.promethiumcloud.com/igniteyourspark/bin/images/users/plane_6882231781372455247298.png)

(http://www.promethiumcloud.com/igniteyourspark/bin/images/users/plane_6804066151372455316270.png)

Quote from: Bracketbot
i dont even know what this is but it is the fucking greatest decision wizards has ever made
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 28, 2013, 09:57:06 AM
Oh my god I can't stop laughing.

I'll never be able to stop laughing ever again.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on June 30, 2013, 04:41:52 PM
Turns out the new Chandra sucks. Welp.

I am sad.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: on June 30, 2013, 06:50:49 PM
...post the abilities and shit, do we have to tell you everything?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on June 30, 2013, 10:53:03 PM
Chandra, Pyromaster 2RR

Planeswalker - Chandra   
+1: Chandra, Pyromaster deals 1 damage to target player and 1 damage to up to one target creature that player controls. That creature can't block this turn.
0: Exile the top card of your library. You may play it this turn.
-7: Exile the top ten cards of your library. Choose an instant or sorcery card exiled this way and copy it three times. You may cast the copies without paying their mana costs.
Loyalty 4
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on June 30, 2013, 11:34:15 PM
Man, who even gives a damn about Chandra after finding out this exists:

Strionic Resonator (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143494&d=1372652332) 2
Artifact   
2, T: Copy target triggered ability you control. You may choose new targets for the copy. (A triggered ability uses the words "when", "whenever" or "at".)
Its tines cannot be rung by mere physical force. Only magic of great power can start its eldritch resonance.
Illus. Noah Bradley #224/249

I don't care what you say or who you thought you knew you were—Strionic Resonator is going to destroy people.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on June 30, 2013, 11:53:44 PM
Combine with Lighthouse Chronologist to find out what having your throat crushed feels like.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 01, 2013, 12:29:42 AM
...post the abilities and shit, do we have to tell you everything?

Sorry! I was figuring that if anyone gave much of a damn, they were probably already watching for the spoiler. Also, I was disappoint, etc.  :P

Individually, I like her abilities, but they combine very poorly on her, she comes down too late to be effective, the abilities are horribly unsynergistic, there's already a massive traffic jam at the 4-mana slot for walkers and red finishers, and she violates my #1 rule for what makes a good planeswalker: that you are offered a genuine choice between two (or more) abilities on the turn you play them.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 01, 2013, 02:11:33 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/FXyYRQZ.png)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 02, 2013, 12:17:52 AM
Why is Chord of Calling a $30 card now?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 02, 2013, 12:28:44 AM
It's a key card in Modern's best deck, Melira Pod.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Classic on July 02, 2013, 03:38:39 AM
I kind of want to know what the hell you're talking about, but not enough to hunt up the useful sources that could explain it to me in under an hour's worth of reading.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on July 02, 2013, 04:04:09 AM
Essentially, the deck uses Melira, a creature that makes it so -1/-1 counters can't be placed on your creatures, and creatures with Persist (When they die, they come back into play with a -1/-1 counter if they didn't have one) that have a triggered ability when they enter the battlefield, such as Kitchen Finks, which gains you 2 life, or Murderous Redcap, which deals 2 damage to target creature or player.

Then they use any number of creatures that have a "sacrifice a creature, do X" ability.

So they sac their Redcap with Melira out, it dies, comes back into play due to persist, deals 2 damage, doesn't get a -1/-1 counter due to Melira's effect, sac it again immediately, etc, win game.

Birthing Pod and Chord of Calling are cards that let you search your deck for creatures, so you can get the combo out faster and more reliably.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Classic on July 02, 2013, 04:25:52 AM
Karma++;
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on July 02, 2013, 05:03:14 AM
you could have just said "it's a green tutor"
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on July 02, 2013, 06:02:04 AM
fuck you zara you can't tell me what to do you're not my real dog (evil)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 06, 2013, 01:18:53 PM
It turns out people don't like decks with lots of stax effects and decks that do a lot of stuff during your turn.

Out goes Braids and World Queller.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 08, 2013, 01:20:12 AM
Reading Mark Rosewater's articles makes me wonder if there's an ivory tower* effect on Design/R&D. They just seem to be out of touch with what players want and/or care about sometimes.

*not the card.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 08, 2013, 01:35:57 AM
Ya think? They've been in daddy knows best for a long time. The few times players are allowed input, the process is almost rigged in such a way as to say "See how stupid you all are?" (See: You Make the Card).

That said, I don't get that PARTICULAR vibe from MaRo's article today. It's more boring pedantry where he talks about how cards in the Core set are gimpy because, well, it's the Core Set. If there's anywhere where it's fair for them to get all paternal, it's the Core Set. 
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 08, 2013, 03:58:42 AM
I know, but this is the first time it really seemed obvious to me.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on July 08, 2013, 07:09:39 AM
Well, there's only so many articles you can write on how much creative effort it took to come up with a Paladin en-Vec that can be enchanted with your black spells because HURR DOWNSIDE.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 08, 2013, 04:23:50 PM
Full set spoiler's up. The regular art for Goblin Diplomats is... notable:

(http://i.imgur.com/RxtrE1b.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 10, 2013, 12:44:19 AM
So how long before cheap Mutavaults, Scavenging Oozes and Lilianas of the Veil flood the market?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 10, 2013, 03:59:38 AM
You'll be waiting a while on that last one. I don't think that's going to lose much value, post-rotation. Some, yes, but not a lot.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on July 10, 2013, 04:38:39 AM
Well, there ought to be a brief period pre-rotation when the price dips because Standard-treadmill kiddies are dumping them, right? RIGHT?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 10, 2013, 04:48:01 AM
Lili sees heavy modern and Legacy play, so while you're right, there will be higher number of people hanging on to them.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on July 10, 2013, 09:32:58 AM
I agree with Mongrel. Lili is a lot like Jace; (only not as broken) if you're playing black, you almost always include her.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on July 10, 2013, 09:46:18 AM
I need some too (Don't own a single copy). If we're lucky, she'll drop down to $30, but it wouldn't surprise me if she only drop five bucks, down to $35 - and then only for a couple weeks.

I'm trying to keep an eye on the prices so I can pick us up a copy, though I was really hoping she'd appear in a duel deck someday so that we could get a version with non-skanktrollop art.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 06, 2013, 05:15:23 AM
Mike Flores just wrote a retrospective article on the 20 best MTG strategy articles of all time.

Guess who has 4 articles mentioned?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Bongo Bill on August 08, 2013, 05:54:43 AM
I don't know, I'm not a fucking mind reader.

When you are talking about something on the internet it is considered helpful and polite to include a link to it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 08, 2013, 07:00:45 AM
I'm actually rolling my eyes at Mark Rosewater's "Twenty things That Were Going To Kill Magic" (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/259) more than that. I love the patronizing tone that just oozes from every entry. It's especially clear in #20 that the whole thing is meant to belittle player concerns.

It's that whaddaya-call-it fallacy, where you put something inconsequential next to something big and use it to discredit someone.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on August 08, 2013, 10:31:14 AM
Yeah, he could have listed the 20 things that almost did kill Magic. Hell, let me do it:

1) The demented sex-cult culture in Wizards until 1995 (http://www.salon.com/2001/03/23/wizards/ (http://www.salon.com/2001/03/23/wizards/))
2) Affinity
3 through 19) Urza's Saga
20) Jace The Mind Sculptor

Still, beats the rest of the 20th anniversary celebrations. A set of 20 foil cards... and that's it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 08, 2013, 11:35:07 AM
Don't forget Crack-a-Pack Day. Celebrate the game you've poured so much money into by paying a little bit more!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 08, 2013, 01:41:00 PM
I don't know, I'm not a fucking mind reader.

When you are talking about something on the internet it is considered helpful and polite to include a link to it.

Usually, I'd agree,

But in this case, my post would only be funny to someone who already knows Mike Flores. And if you know Mike Flores - even a little - then you already know the answer to my question.

Himself.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: François on August 08, 2013, 01:45:53 PM
I don't know Mike Flores but it is still pretty funny!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on August 08, 2013, 04:07:31 PM
Quote
2) Affinity

I remember Affinity. It's what got me to quit.

I took one look at Skullclamp, laughed out loud, and said "this is my last tournament I'm ever gonna play in."

I still cannot believe, to this day, that Skullclamp was ever printed. Every other card that people say that about, I'm like, hey, cut R&D some slack, everyone makes mistakes, but Skullclamp, man. Stupidity doesn't explain it. Crack doesn't explain it. Those two things explain Jace, or Mana Drain, or Urza's Saga. Nothing can possibly explain Skullclamp. Maybe, like, Florida.

Florida can explain Skullclamp.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 08, 2013, 05:37:14 PM
I can distinctly remember the four times that competitive Standard became such bullshit that people seriously stopped playing in large numbers:

1) Black Summer (or Necro Summer)
2) Combo Winter (Urza's Saga fiasco)
3) Affinity
4) Caw-Blade
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 08, 2013, 11:13:51 PM
I was wondering if Black Summer was really that bad.

Wait, is there a pattern to these events?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on August 09, 2013, 03:43:37 AM
Roughly 6 years between Urza's Saga and Mirrodin, and 6 more years between Mirrodin and Zendikar. If the pattern holds, 2014 or 2015 should see a new set with cards so broken the whole team gets a dressing down.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 09, 2013, 04:12:15 AM
I was wondering if Black Summer was really that bad.

Wait, is there a pattern to these events?

Black Summer was more similar to Caw-Blade, in that it was just a case of "This regular-seeming deck is simply way too good" than to Combo Winter or Affinity.

Basically the issues was Necropotence instead of Jace. At the time, they banned cards in stages (similar to the Affinity response) and it took them a while before they finally banned Necro itself. I think that was one of the first big lessons on how dramatic card advantage could get.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on August 09, 2013, 04:32:24 AM
My FNM group was all about making fun decks.  Like my Katamyri deck.  Then came the Pro Tour Dallas.  The one where there were 32 JtMS's in the top 8.  all were caw-blade variants.  And two people driving down from Oklahoma came in with their caw-blades and shut down the rest of the FNM group.  It was a sad night.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 09, 2013, 04:44:04 AM
I loved how they were in denial still after that PT. Like this card was literally MAXED OUT in the Top 8, but somehow that wasn't a problem.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 09, 2013, 05:36:26 AM
Well, yeah. Their tournament attendance didn't suffer, ergo, nothing was wrong.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 09, 2013, 05:42:21 AM
Well, looks like we're not the only ones who thought MaRo's article was rather patronizing:

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/57675958814/twenty-things-that-were-going-to-kill-magic-came-off (http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/57675958814/twenty-things-that-were-going-to-kill-magic-came-off)

Also:

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/57702786455/so-did-anything-actually-almost-kill-magic (http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/57702786455/so-did-anything-actually-almost-kill-magic)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 09, 2013, 05:46:18 AM
Well, yeah. Their tournament attendance didn't suffer, ergo, nothing was wrong.

It did start suffering after that. Not at the big events, but attendance at smaller events, FNM's and the like went downhill fast.

As for MaRo's second twitter post above, about being beyond killing now...

I'd agree that we're nearly beyond the point where a single mistake could kill Magic (and it's now so old and established that it will have a life beyond WotC, no matter what happens), but that poor aggregate decisions over time can do serious damage.

For instance, I took our list elsewhere and built it up to this:

1) The "demented sex-cult culture in Wizards until 1995" (personally, I refer to that period as the time when WotC was still "run by gamers")
2) Black Summer (or Necro Summer)
3) Combo Winter (Urza's Saga fiasco)
4) Affinity
5) Caw-Blade
6) CoK Block's inbred and generally horrible execution
7) The overall long post-Ravnica decline due a long run of lackluster blocks (you can argue that maybe this is mostly just 4 & 6)
8) Jund
9) Fae (arguably Jund and Fae also set up Caw Blade, because Wizards got more used to one "good deck" dominating Standard)
10) Cutting States events
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on August 09, 2013, 08:01:49 PM
Seems like the organized play shakeup a while back that basically asked "who can go to the most events regardless of performance" to determine Pro Tour invitations was a pretty heinous time, but I guess that was actually already mentioned by MaRo, and they reversed that decision?

For me, #7 is entirely a product of Coldsnap trying to do limited, Time Spiral block catering to veterans, and Lorwyn failing to cater to Magic's lowest common denominator. Ravnica to Alara was actually the peak of my Magic-buying days, though. (Although that may say more about the intersection of the time of my employment, the era in which I had no relationship-based expenses, and the deferment period of my debts.)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 11, 2013, 05:51:35 PM
The Unglued 2 cards that never made it into Unhinged (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/260)

Some of these are amazing.

(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/mm/mm260_timewalkonthewildside.jpg)

If I had a high-res version of this, it would be my new background.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on August 14, 2013, 10:02:12 AM
This may be the weirdest alter I've ever seen:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uISTSZv3u30/TqeldYfYr9I/AAAAAAAAA3s/KYpFYjLMeFk/s1600/shaq.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 14, 2013, 10:33:21 AM
I declare my Shaq Attack phase.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on August 19, 2013, 07:02:23 AM
So they're reprinting Regrowth (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=1263) in the Heroes vs. Monsters Duel Decks.

That's cool.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 02, 2013, 04:03:14 AM
Note to self: Build this deck

Quote
Creatures
Arbor Elf x4
Elvish Mystic x4
Elvish Pioneer x4
Heritage Druid x4
Llanowar Elves x4
Elvish Harbinger x4
Gilt Leaf Archdruid x4
Elvish Archdruid x4

Non Creature
Harmonize x4
Abundance x4

Land
Forest x20
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on October 02, 2013, 03:31:32 PM
Nissa Revane/Chosens?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 02, 2013, 10:44:05 PM
Are they Druids?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on October 03, 2013, 12:13:09 AM
Funny, they don't look Druish.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Cait on October 05, 2013, 02:49:15 AM
Needs a proper win condition, though. It's fast, but if your opponent gets out a couple of decent creatures while you're building up, you've got no way to punch through. Gut feeling is to toss in a couple of copies of either Helix Pinnacle or Gelatinous Genesis, or maybe 1 each. Once you're active, you've got plenty of dig power.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on October 05, 2013, 03:16:27 PM
Some talk about when we'll finally get our wedge block on MTGSalvation made me do some thinking. Crossposted:


Wedge is going to be big—it's one of the most asked-for themes—so I think they'll want it to be present from the beginning of the block. That means it's the next gold block. Let's look at historical precedent.

Based on this, I'd predict we'll get our wedge block in the fall of 2016—the sets codenamed "Lock", "Stock", and "Barrel". I'd imagine "Blood" in 2015 to use tribal components for whatever atmosphere it wants to create. Next year's "Huey" will probably have a minor artifact or land theme, since the enchantments of Theros were an unknown quantity. Either way, Huey will likely use one of Magic's established settings, factions, or villains—probably Nicol Bolas, but the Eldrazi might make an appearance instead.



On an unrelated subject, the "You Make The Card" winner, Waste Not, is one of my very favorite kinds of cards—a cheap, does-nothing enchantment that you'll need to run four of to get any benefit from, but which is a terrible late-game topdeck. On rereading that sentence, it sounds like sarcasm, but I'm serious: I loved Bloodchief's Ascension and the other cards from that cycle, I love enablers like Burning Vengeance, and I love this. It's terrible for competitive, but this card will make for some amazing games in my playgroup.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 05, 2013, 03:36:33 PM
Actually, next year's block will be on a new plane. Wizards recently confirmed a trademark for next year's fall set, under the name Warlords of Khanar.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on October 05, 2013, 09:51:45 PM
Mongolian/Chinese mythology? I hope we see this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_death_worm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_death_worm)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on October 07, 2013, 09:39:13 PM
Also I doubt there will be a wedge block that soon, as Commander 2013 is just around the corner.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 07, 2013, 10:17:59 PM
Speaking of which:

(http://i.imgur.com/Tn0GII7.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on October 08, 2013, 01:21:16 PM
That's a cheaty version of Flash!  That's adorable!
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on October 08, 2013, 01:25:19 PM
dies to remova --

wait
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 15, 2013, 02:23:02 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/90KcLVd.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 18, 2013, 03:23:47 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/aE5gDT0.jpg) (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/on/207.jpg)

(http://outsiderjapan.pbworks.com/f/1202784606/Sd_helmeppo.jpg)

ohshi
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on October 21, 2013, 02:19:37 PM
it seems Commander is now the place for bizarre cards and off-beat reprints. HORSEMANSHIP, people.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 21, 2013, 03:04:43 PM
The horsemanship reprints are because it's basically impossible to get P3K cards without paying through the nose, but many people find they're useful in EDH.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 22, 2013, 01:19:40 AM
Even though he has an ability and casting cost that's practically tailor-made for EDH, they'd never reprint Dong Zhou, the Tyrant (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=10730) because everyone would go "I hit you with my Dong," and laugh like third-graders.

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on October 22, 2013, 04:49:11 AM
Seriously, guys, you're using the wrong grade for "immature". Anywhere in the 7-12 grade, or college freshmen, sophomores, juniors, and seniors is far, far more immature. 3rd graders just like dinosaurs.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 23, 2013, 02:19:04 PM
Quote from: G4I
Allie Brosh of Hyperbole and a Half is doing an AMA. It came out she plays MTG http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ozt33/i_am_allie_brosh_the_drawwriter_of_hyperbole_and/ccx9yyc (http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ozt33/i_am_allie_brosh_the_drawwriter_of_hyperbole_and/ccx9yyc) she is now tweeting with a bunch of MTG pros https://twitter.com/AllieBrosh (https://twitter.com/AllieBrosh) I find it weird when various parts of the internet/geekery collide. I felt the same way when LOL pros started playing MTG.

Oh hey, this is pretty cool, I suppose. Wait what's this?:

https://twitter.com/Rule__of__Law/status/393082816813989888 (https://twitter.com/Rule__of__Law/status/393082816813989888)

Good lord, the quantity of asshole in this twit blotted out the moon.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on October 24, 2013, 05:59:07 AM
http://indiecustomcube.com/ (http://indiecustomcube.com/)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 28, 2013, 12:00:54 AM
Note to self: Build this deck

This one too:

Quote
Artifact:
2 Genesis Chamber
2 Myr Matrix
4 Myr Reservoir
4 Myr Turbine
4 Semblance Anvil
Creature:
4 Hovermyr
2 Lodestone Myr
2 Myr Battlesphere
4 Myr Galvanizer
2 Myr Retriever
4 Myr Superion
2 Myr Welder
4 Palladium Myr
Land:
2 Blinkmoth Well
4 Cloudpost
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Glimmerpost
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Vesuva

Sideboard:
2 Myr Welder
1 Darksteel Forge
1 Eldrazi Monument
2 Lodestone Myr
1 Unwinding Clock
3 Adaptive Automaton
1 Shimmer Myr
4 Door of Destinies
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: McDohl on October 28, 2013, 04:49:29 AM
I'm shocked and saddened you didn't think of me when you saw that.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on October 28, 2013, 05:23:15 AM
That's why I posted it here instead of keeping it to myself: so that one day you and I could go head-to-head in a Myrror Match.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Grath on October 28, 2013, 04:55:55 PM
So for some reason, the people I was playing EDH with didn't appreciate it when I played an Avenger of Zendikar (with 12 plant token buddies) and 3 Craterhoof Behemoths on turn 5.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on October 28, 2013, 05:46:09 PM
MINUS FIFTY SHELDON POINTS
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 01, 2013, 05:32:03 AM
So the first gaming store I went to had skipped all the pretense and set the prices for the new Commander decks for fifty to seventy dollars. Hopefully this will not be a trend.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 01, 2013, 06:36:34 AM
If it was any store other than 401, I wouldn't be surprised at all.

The decks are supposed to be reprinted at will and will be available at WalMart etc. So if there store in question is overcharging, forget it. This is not supposed to be a limited product.

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 01, 2013, 07:15:31 AM
Well yeah. I almost laughed when I saw the prices. There's a Wal-Mart AND a Toys-R-Us just a short walk way from the place, and I've seen Magic product in both places.

But then the store in question was also charging $4.43 for a pack of Theros sooooo
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 05, 2013, 12:29:07 PM
https://twitter.com/Juzam_/status/238004720260751360
followed by
https://twitter.com/Juzam_/status/238004862892261377
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 12, 2013, 04:53:43 PM
So I don't use MODO. Never have never will. We all have our imaginary self-imposed lines, and while I can somehow convince myself to pay $50 or even $300 for some random bit of cardboard, paying the same amount for a few ones and zeroes on a server somewhere to display a crude image of that same card is over my line.

However, lots of my MTG-playing friends do use MODO, and for a long time I've had their tales of woe, on how buggy and crash-prone the program is. It's 2013 and there are programs from fifteen years ago that function and look better. The UI is total shit (with gems like having a one-click "concede the game" button one pixel away from a "move some counters around on your permanents" button) and looks positively ancient. The back-end is creaky as fuck, constantly crashing all of MODO due to massive issues with scaling (the backend has ALWAYS had issues with scaling, though pretty much every version or iteration of the program).

There's also probably a fair amount of kruft and patches due to the fact that the game was originally designed by an outside company (ironically that was the most stable version), and the WotC in-house designers have just built over old versions or used the older versions as a skeleton for newer ones. So the original has been copied and fiddled with endlessly, but was made by people who have all long since been fired.

It also seems to be getting worse, not better, even though WotC continually resolves to fix it. The problem is that for every version but the long-gone original design, they've hired cheap coders who Really Wanted To Work For A Game Company!, rather than actually paying good money to real designers to assemble the damn thing. Preferably by building an entirely new system from the ground up, then blowing up the old one and sealing the debris in concrete bunkers at the bottom of an old, played-out coal mine.

So, recently there was an especially gruesome series of crashes, some in the middle of high-profile tournaments, which resulted in some big players bitching very loudly. In response to recent massive system failures, WotC posted this: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/273 (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/273)

Wow, hey, that's a huge deal, eh? That's a lot of money they're forgoing - it's not fixed yet, but they must be taking this problem seriously!

Only it comes two weeks shy of the ten-year anniversary of this: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=magic/magiconline/news112603 (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=magic/magiconline/news112603)

:lol:
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on November 16, 2013, 08:52:11 PM
The decks are supposed to be reprinted at will and will be available at WalMart etc. So if there store in question is overcharging, forget it. This is not supposed to be a limited product.

So this is a great intention, but these are preconstructed products sold together as a single package, and in the Wichita area, at least, the Esper and Grixis decks are in very high demand, while the other three aren't.  I've checked four Walmarts, three Targets, and two comic book stores (Prairie Dog Comics and Wizards' Asylum) and the results have been the same at each location: neither of the above decks is available, while at least two out of the other three decks are in-stock, usually with two or three copies of each available.. If retailers can only move 40 to 60% of the Commander package, that's not a product they're going to reorder.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 17, 2013, 12:23:50 AM
So is it like the hip thing to do to have Green and Blue in your EDH deck? Lately that's all I seem to see. People seem to only be running Roon/Rafiq/Animar/M.Wanderer/Zegana. Heck, yesterday I saw a game go on for about three hours because everyone was playing a deck with at least some blue in it.

I'm gonna start bringing my Jaya deck more often.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Grath on November 18, 2013, 04:17:41 AM
So is it like the hip thing to do to have Green and Blue in your EDH deck? Lately that's all I seem to see. People seem to only be running Roon/Rafiq/Animar/M.Wanderer/Zegana. Heck, yesterday I saw a game go on for about three hours because everyone was playing a deck with at least some blue in it.

I'm gonna start bringing my Jaya deck more often.

Green lets you ramp into your Crazy EDH Swingy Plays faster, Blue lets you (as always) break half the game.

Now that I will, within a week or maybe two depending on shitty eBay shipping times, have an appropriate landbase I'm thinking of running Progenitus.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on November 18, 2013, 05:26:52 AM
That's the problem that I'm seeing too often these days. Ramp/counter/bounce/187 goodstuff decks. Who needs creativity or theme when you can just plop down Coiling Oracle, Palinchron, Dead-Eye Navigator, Draining Whelk, Eternal Witness, and just recur your Cyclonic Rift, removal and counterspells?

I always thought that EDH was the format to be creative and unusual.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on November 18, 2013, 06:16:51 AM
That's the problem that I'm seeing too often these days. Ramp/counter/bounce/187 goodstuff decks. Who needs creativity or theme when you can just plop down Coiling Oracle, Palinchron, Dead-Eye Navigator, Draining Whelk, Eternal Witness, and just recur your Cyclonic Rift, removal and counterspells?

I always thought that EDH was the format to be creative and unusual.

creative and unusual dies to removal
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 18, 2013, 08:07:31 AM
The biggest problem is Wizards started paying attention to EDH.

Now they're starting to "pay attention" to Legacy and we get shit like True Name nemesis, which I am honestly hoping is banned for play health reasons. I almost never ask for cards to be banned.

It's not power level that's the issue, though it's certainly powerful (GP Washington just ended as a duel between racing TNN's), it's how unbelievably unfun the card is to play against or even play WITH. Apparently the most common thing that would happen over the weekend was player 1 would put pants on their TNN (Batterskull, usually) and player 2 would just concede. Next game, etc.

Before the GP, we were thinking it would be okay, that TNN would only make it in Merfolk decks and not be so bad. Nope.

Granted, it'll take at least one more big tournament to cement it as a problem card, but most of the best options for dealing with it are cards that aren't very good against other decks. Looks like the biggest choices for workable silver bullets are Golgari Charm, Supreme verdict, and Liliana.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Grath on November 18, 2013, 08:52:58 AM
That's the problem that I'm seeing too often these days. Ramp/counter/bounce/187 goodstuff decks. Who needs creativity or theme when you can just plop down Coiling Oracle, Palinchron, Dead-Eye Navigator, Draining Whelk, Eternal Witness, and just recur your Cyclonic Rift, removal and counterspells?

I always thought that EDH was the format to be creative and unusual.

creative and unusual dies to removal

Creative and unusual dies to people being dicks, so to cope you start being a dick. See: My playgroup has a still somewhat unofficial ban of Sylvan Primordial, because it's bad enough when it's not being abused and it's super easy to abuse.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Cait on November 30, 2013, 03:21:33 AM
Magic: The Gathering: The Musical (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmIPqgMD8us#ws)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on November 30, 2013, 02:55:54 PM
FYI guys, I think there's a very good possibility that Toxic Deluge is about to shoot up to $20 or more (it is currently $13-$15 depending on where you buy and was only $12 a few days ago).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on December 18, 2013, 04:16:58 AM
So I always used to think that the "stinky nerd seriously take a bath and shave that horrible shit that is trying but failing to be hair off your fucking face" was a sort of classist/stereotypical insult, you know, those nerds and their lack of hygiene haha what losers

but nope, turns out these men are real and they play mtg at my local gameshop

bonus points if they hit on me* as we sit down for game one and then are angry because I killed them turn 4 with a burn deck that is "not interactive" while they are playing storm or goryo's
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 18, 2013, 04:23:37 AM
Goryo's Vengeance?

What format were you playing? Modern or Legacy? Or just casual lolwhatever? 

EDIT: I am guessing Modern, because Goryo's Vengeance hasn't really been decent in Legacy, but if it's Modern, then consistent turn 4 burn kills is pretty good. So I am interested in the level of competition/your decklist.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 18, 2013, 04:41:20 AM
Oh and yeah those guys are still a thing. Though I do see more women (and more cleaned-up ordinary people) playing MTG these days. I mean, we're still talking single digit percentages of female players, but it's closer to 10 than 1 now. Which strikes me as funny given how Wizards actually gave up on attracting demographics outside of young males with their advertising, etc. 

One comment I hear recently that rang true was that for proportions of women playing, the scale is something like RPGs -> CCGs -> Tabletop Wargames.

Tabletop Wargames really are the terrifying last bastion of total and utter male-dominated gaming. Only there will you see crap like the Warmachine rulebook's fifth page (Page 5 of the Warmachine rules is the "code of ethics" where it tells you to "play like you've got a pair" and a bunch of other over the top craziness). The other day a guy I know was playing WH and had to leave because the whole time he was at the store the entire population was very loudly and angrily bitching about women after some college ball player was accused of rape (James Winston or something?)

Though interestingly enough the first new wargame I've gotten involved in in over a decade is a skirmish game (Pulp Alley) that was designed by a father-daughter team and has attracted more women players than I've ever seen play a wargame. The rules are some of the best I've ever seen, are simple, fun, and SUPER-adaptable.

I will be posting some teams and stuff of that when I have them assembled and painted (over the next couple months).

(This largely pointless ramble brought to you by Mongrel).
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on December 18, 2013, 05:48:07 AM
a burn deck that is "not interactive"

MY DECK INTERACTS WITH YOUR ASS BITCH
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 18, 2013, 06:00:21 AM
Odd. Last time I was at Dueling Grounds, there was a lady playing Skubmachine. It wasn't a tournament or anything, BUT STILL

Speaking of which, there's a player there who fits Friday's description. He doesn't have a neckbeard, thank god, but he stinks like he bathes once a week and does his laundry once a month. I was immediately repulsed by the guy because not only did he have a bad smell, he had untrimmed fingernails that had horrible black crud under them. He also tends to remind people loudly about what he's doing in a turn, what triggers happen, etc. even if you're sitting right in front of him.

He's an okay person otherwise.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 18, 2013, 06:40:16 AM
I know the U of T Magic club had like 20% women playing, the last times I went (which was like a year ago). And not like "Korean Andy's girlfriend shows up and surfs on the reporting laptop while the guys play MTG", I mean actual players.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 18, 2013, 07:56:27 AM
The judge for the EDH league at the Hairy Tarantula is a woman.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: on December 18, 2013, 09:35:52 AM
The reason I stopped playing MTG at the local card store in Texas was everyone there was an asshole. While they were all male, the assholishness seemed mostly focused around poor sportsmanship, trolling new people, and just generally dickishness.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on December 19, 2013, 04:11:24 PM
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Goryo's Vengeance?

Yeah.

Turn 1 faithless looting (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=368475), turn two (possible) Griselbrand (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=239995) res using Goryo's (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=74475) followed by drawing 21 cards, pitching two reds to Fury of the Horde (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=121181) to swing again, draw 7 more, ditch two Spirit Guides (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=124474), double bolt (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=234704), GG.

It's the fastest possible kill combo in modern (outside of glistener into 500 mutagenic growths with a healthy dose of groundswell/might of old krosa) but it's not a tier 1 deck because it's not consistent enough. I think Storm might be in theory able to go off turn 2 with some sort of insane nut draw followed by more insane top decking but they don't try till at least turn 3 as a rule.

I know you know all that, Mongrel. Just posting the info for the curious.

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What format were you playing? Modern or Legacy? Or just casual lolwhatever?

Modern, yeah. Won an Academy Ruins and a foil Eternal Witness from my modern masters pack for placing second. (lost to Living End game 1, rakdos charmed their gy in response game two but lost anyway because they just set up the combo again and I bricked on the last draw while they were at 2.)

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EDIT: I am guessing Modern, because Goryo's Vengeance hasn't really been decent in Legacy, but if it's Modern, then consistent turn 4 burn kills is pretty good. So I am interested in the level of competition/your decklist.

The level of competition is actually surprisingly high. There are a few guys playing more homebrew/not fast enough for modern stuff, but most people are playing tier 1 or 1.5 decks. One guy has been sweeping tourney after tourney playing robots/affinity but my burn made short work of him. There's also a lot of combo/control players and a few Jund/Junk lists being run. One guy is running UW Tron/Gifts as well. Luckily I didn't have to face him, as a Unburial'd Iona naming Red is pretty much a scoop from me, barring having enough Bumps in hand to finish him off or a Rakdos Charm.

Creature: 10
4x Goblin Guide
4x Vexing Devil
2x Deathrite Shaman

Spells: 33
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Rift Bolt
4x Lava Spike
4x Bump in the Night
4x Boros Charm
3x Searing Blaze
4x Skullcrack
1x Lightning Helix
3x Magma Jet
2x Volcanic Fallout

Land: 17
2x City of Brass
3x Gemstone Mine
3x Arid Mesa
3x Scalding Tarn
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Blood Crypt
1x Stomping Ground
3x Mountain
   
Sideboard:

4x Rakdos Charm
2x Torpor Orb
2x Lightning Helix
1x Destructive Revelry
3x Shattering Spree
3x Ronom Unicorn

It's capable of turn 3 kills with enough 1cc for 3 (Guides and Devils speed it up considerably as well) but that's pretty rare. Usually I'm forced to spend bolts on threats or they get Iok'd out of my hand or whatever. Realistically speaking I kill on turn 5 or 6.

A lot of the time my opponent will do a good 3-5 points of my work for me just playing fetches and shocklands. I remember one match: game 1 I lost the roll and a Jund deck went turn 1 fetch into shock into thoughtseize and then visibly cringed seeing my hand.

Nobody boarded Leyline against me (or if they did I never saw it), but I suspect that might change if I keep playing/winning.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on December 19, 2013, 04:21:58 PM
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Though I do see more women (and more cleaned-up ordinary people) playing MTG these days.

Yeah, I was actually one of three girls playing. And most of the people were super nice. It was just the two guys who really needed

A: an attitude adjustment
B: a bath
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Grath on December 19, 2013, 04:47:55 PM
Speaking of non-interactive decks, I need to revamp my Eggs deck so I can play it post-Second-Sunrise-ban. Because I am a horrible person.

Also I picked up a Lion's Eye Diamond last week so clearly that means I should put together the rest of Dredge.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 19, 2013, 04:56:37 PM
Oh sweet, you're playing the Deathrite Shaman burn.  :luv:

I actually know the guy who first developed that idea (revo, aka cjlack92 on MODO). That's not a INTERNET CRED thing, I just like seeing people do well with that list.

I mean, okay, in modern MTG nobody comes really up with an idea "first" just because so many eyeballs are on the cards and new sets/formats get "solved" crazy fast now by the giant motherbrain that is MODO, but he was one of the two or three guys who first thought of it and they all tested together and he had the first couple top 8s on MODO dailies with a Deathrite burn list.

Speaking of non-interactive decks, I need to revamp my Eggs deck so I can play it post-Second-Sunrise-ban. Because I am a horrible person.

Also I picked up a Lion's Eye Diamond last week so clearly that means I should put together the rest of Dredge.

Speaking of picking up expensive cards, when Buge and I went to the GP, I picked up two Illusionary Masks to finish Starr's playset and build masknaught (secret Christmas present for now). One of them is signed by Amy Weber. We're not super-big on signed cards, but that is frikkin sweet.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on December 19, 2013, 05:25:31 PM
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Oh sweet, you're playing the Deathrite Shaman burn.

Yeah. DRS is the all-star of the Modern format. He's the only chance I have game 1 (outside of racing) against a lot of decks. And he even helps me race by ramping with my fetches. I'm thinking about swapping out the Fallouts for the full playset.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 19, 2013, 05:28:55 PM
I have always been a sucker for low-CMC small creatures with loads of useful text.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on December 19, 2013, 05:47:47 PM
Yeah, I run four in my black/green homebrew. They're pretty much the only reason I ever win a game when I play against an actual deck.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on December 25, 2013, 04:00:39 PM
Garbage planeswalker announced (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/279)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 25, 2013, 04:34:17 PM
Eh, she's not that bad. I doubt she'll see much use though.

The hilarious thing is how her art incorporates both the Great Wave Off Kanagawa as well as the biggest gimme for tentacle porn jokes in MTG.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on December 25, 2013, 07:11:00 PM
I feel like her +1 needs to be more relevant or she should start at 3 loyalty.

+1: Target permanent an opponent controls does not untap during their next upkeep. Prevent all damage dealt by that permanent until your next turn.

Other abilities are fine. It's just that 2 starting loyalty that really hurts her.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 26, 2013, 02:59:26 AM
Yeah, she's extremly fragile.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on December 26, 2013, 05:09:39 AM
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+1: Target permanent an opponent controls does not untap during their next upkeep. Prevent all damage dealt by that permanent until your next turn.

Er, not upkeep. Untap phase. I know how to play, I swear.

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Yeah, she's extremly fragile.

Her fragility isn't really the biggest issue. Lili is extremely fragile but the turn she comes down she's relevant. She forces a sac or makes them discard something. Chandra can pick off a creature (or make it unable to block if it doesn't die) and deal 1 to the opponent, AND she comes down with twice as much loyalty to start with. (You generally don't want to +0 her first turn as you won't have the mana to cast whatever you flip.)

Domri can add mana or make shit fight, Jace does something in all his versions.

Kiora just... well, she wall of fogs something. Unless your opponent has out one huge fatty, that's not gonna be super relevant. I guess she can also just immediately replace herself, but that doesn't really gain you anything. You're paying 4 to cantrip. The "play an extra land" clause seems really weak to me. Chances are the 4th land is the last land in your hand or you top decked it, so unless you actually draw another land you're not gonna be able to use the extra drop.

I dunno. New Chandra seemed weak to me at first but she actually turned out to be good. Maybe Kiora will find her place. I can't imagine her being used in anything other than Standard, though. Chandra is actually seeing some play in modern and legacy Jund lists.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 26, 2013, 07:43:17 AM
I think Kiora has two chances for Standard play. One is in a setup with Prophet of Krumix that has lots of permanents to screen her and then uses her as a refuelling mechanism (so trying to draw often). The other is in some sort of control strategy (or a strategy with control elements, which she allows to go full control) where all she does is lock down a threat to build towards being a fatty generator - her ultimate is actually easier to get to than a lot of other walkers.

There's also a very slim chance at Legacy, if only because a LOT of decks only put one threat on the table. The problem is that a large number of those one-threat decks have lightning bolt, so prrrroooobably not.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on December 26, 2013, 09:59:47 AM
Yeah, even Lili, as fragile as she is, doesn't die to a bolt if you +1, which you almost always will against burn.

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Domri can add mana or make shit fight

whoops, confused Domri's +1 with Xenagos. My friend runs a standard red/green monsters and uses both walkers, so I get them mixed up in what each does exactly.

So Domri can cantrip (while getting bigger) or act as removal, and Xenagos can generate mana or put down a 2/2 haste.

All four of those things are better than what Kiora does. And they both start at 3 loyalty instead of 2.

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There's also a very slim chance at Legacy, if only because a LOT of decks only put one threat on the table. The problem is that a large number of those one-threat decks have lightning bolt, so prrrroooobably not.

Is there even another walker that starts at 2 loyalty? (I'm not counting Tibalt. He's not a walker, he's a joke.)

It seems like they wanted walkers to almost universally be out of instant bolt/searing spear/lightning strike range. I really don't understand why Kiora starts at 2. If they were worried so much about her ult going off they could have just bumped it up to -6.

Maybe they had legacy in mind when they designed her? It's possible she might see play there, like you said, if she wasn't just boltable.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on December 26, 2013, 10:50:07 AM
Nissa also starts at 2.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on January 01, 2014, 08:51:39 AM
Playing Duels of the Planeswalkers. It starts to get annoying that all the opponents have these beautiful synergistic decks and your strategy is BONK WITH 2/2 EVERY TURN BECAUSE YOU'VE JUST BEEN GETTING LANDS FOR THE LAST FIVE TURNS.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 01, 2014, 09:22:28 AM
Let me guess: you're playing versus the CPU.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on January 01, 2014, 10:04:27 AM
I'm not supposed to?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 01, 2014, 03:27:54 PM
Can't you play against people?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 01, 2014, 04:07:42 PM
Only on MODO, not DotP.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on January 01, 2014, 04:48:58 PM
Only on MODO, not DotP.

Oh? Um, what does THIS button do, then?

(http://i.imgur.com/aCz7jNe.jpg)

I'll spare anyone who legitimately doesn't know the trouble: it lets you host or join multiplayer games through your platform's proprietary network—so, in this case, Steam.

Personally, I don't find multiplayer against other humans necessarily that much more fun or "fair" than against the computer, but mileage is variable.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: on January 01, 2014, 04:52:28 PM
That's a screenshot of the screenshot page, showing a screenshot.

Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 01, 2014, 06:13:04 PM
Huh.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Cait on January 01, 2014, 10:05:04 PM
Online multiplayer has been in since the first Duels of the Planeswalkers back in 2010, yes.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: jsnlxndrlv on January 05, 2014, 06:31:38 PM
Aaron Forsythe's article on the Magic website today previews the new card frames they're introducing with Magic 2015. I feel like if they're going to introduce a design credit, that information should go in the black band across the bottom with the artist credit, but what do I know.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: on January 05, 2014, 07:18:51 PM
POST YOUR DIRTY SANTA SHIT.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 05, 2014, 07:29:51 PM
The new card frames are sort of ugly, but I hate the new title font more. It's this jagged, angry stuff. Hey let's face it, none of the changes are all that big of a deal, but that doesn't mean they make the cards look nicer.

(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/features/2014/aiwesdfkw9242featwk01_en_card_walloffire.jpg)  (http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/features/2014/229fjk2sdalkfeatwk01_en_card_wastenot.jpg)

Also looks like Mythics and Rares are getting a small holofoil to help prevent counterfeiting. The bottoms of the cards might actually be machine-readable now, so that that might introduce some changes to organized play, which is at least a mechanical positive.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on January 05, 2014, 11:07:34 PM
Yeah, there's really nothing much that warrants design rage

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so there are a lot of similarities between the old font and the new, named "Beleren,"

GROAN.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 06, 2014, 05:41:32 AM
Why is Stoneforge Mystic suddenly $25?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 06, 2014, 06:00:43 AM
It's been climbing up for a while now, I think?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 06, 2014, 06:41:10 AM
Not really (http://store.tcgplayer.com/magic/worldwake/stoneforge-mystic?partner=MAGCINFO#PriceGuide). It was hovering around $10-12 and then last week it doubled in price. Did some new Legacy build sweep a tournament or something?
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Büge on January 06, 2014, 06:47:46 AM
Oh wait (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=376562)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 06, 2014, 07:43:33 AM
That'll do it.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on January 06, 2014, 07:58:23 AM
First to put pants on wins

the format
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 09, 2014, 08:37:25 AM
Okay, check out this recent dailies report, from Monday: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/6569297 (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/6569297)

Now ctrl-F to find 'Taverenak'.

Yes Virginia, that's an undefeated Norin the Wary deck.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 09, 2014, 08:39:29 AM
 Say, did anybody see the recent news about the Chinese counterfeiters openly selling vast quantities of high-quality fakes at pennies on the dollar through Alibaba?

They're detectable (text kerning visible on copyright line, true rounded corners not matching real MTG cards, and slightly flimsier overall - also glossier, but many euro cards are also glossier), but pass many anti-counterfeit tests (bend test, blue edge line, light test).

I thought it was interesting that they're going for the volume angle rather than trying to get parity value.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on January 09, 2014, 09:13:06 AM
No doubt having holo seals on all rares and mythics on Base Set 2015 onwards is related.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: François on January 09, 2014, 09:14:36 AM
Some men just want to watch the world burn.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Friday on January 09, 2014, 10:53:11 AM
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undefeated Norin the Wary deck.

Ha! I've been looking to build a Soul Sisters deck anyway.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on January 11, 2014, 12:47:57 AM
insert 'wizards prints money' joke here

(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/arcana/arc1385_jacecoin.jpg)
(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/arcana/arc1385_displaybox.jpg)
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 13, 2014, 11:56:10 AM
MTG Movie forthcoming (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/fox-bring-magic-gathering-big-670529?mobile_redirect=false)

Yeah, there's no way this won't be terrible.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Zaratustra on January 13, 2014, 01:03:29 PM
Well, at least in this case overly aggressive, self-important characters with terrible lines will be faithful to the source material.
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 14, 2014, 06:25:30 AM
Back on the subject of the counterfeit cards:

<Markdash> Supposedly that particular location has been shut down.
<Markdash> I would imagine Hasbro leaned on the Chinese government/police/etc fairly heavily, they likely have a lot of manufacturing there so the Chinese would do well to stay on Hasbro's good side.
<Markdash> Rampant speculation, of course.
<Markdash> But if true, this begs the question: What happens when there's a well-run counterfeit operation in a country that doesn't give an actual fuck about Hasbro's intellectual property?
<Ashenai> The thing is, these are physical goods, you need a distribution network as well.
<Ashenai> Even if you could print cards in your Somalian fortress or whatever, actually getting them to customers is going to be tough.
<Iteration> I'm imagining a somalian drug lord and his lackeys playing magic with all their counterfeits now, someone gets pissed about land destruction and machine gun fire rings out
Title: Re: MTG
Post by: Mongrel on January 15, 2014, 10:48:18 AM
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US bills to be revised
Washington DC, January 14, 2014

The recent stream of extremely well forged dollar bills flooding all markets has forced the United States Treasury to take action. On January 14th, a new bill design was presented to representatives of the press.

"All dollar bills have been given a copyright notice that really stands out to the viewer", a spokesperson stated. "The darn Chinese counterfeiters won't be able to miss it!"

You'll also notice a little silver oval in the bottom center of the portrait of old Franklin. That's a new unique holofoil stamp that the US Treasury will be applying to all rare and mythic rare bills going forward.

"This stamp makes those bills feel more special, as well as guarantees authenticity.", the spokesperson said. "Certainly the Chinese can't create holographic stickers and insert them into cardboard."

(http://xerent.lokalen.org/incoming/bill.jpg)

The new bills will be introduced during the summer 2014, beginning with special release events organized by local banks and financial institutions.

Adding new security measures to the bills does not come without new costs, however. To finance the increasing costs for printing these bills with added security measures, printing operations have been outsourced to a large company in the Tianjin province (天津市), China.

(The Incite guy is a running gag on the Magic forum I go to).