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Author Topic: Delicious Flesh  (Read 8763 times)

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Kazz

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Re: Delicious Flesh
« Reply #60 on: August 08, 2008, 02:10:38 PM »

So they don't deserve to be butchered, but it's okay to eat them?

Yeah.

Where's the contradiction?
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Thad

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Re: Delicious Flesh
« Reply #61 on: August 08, 2008, 02:56:54 PM »

JESUS CHRIST.  How does a four-page thread manage to explode on the day my power goes out?

PETA's philosophies are backwards.  you shouldn't bring animals up to human level, you should bring humans down.  we're not special, we're fucking awful.  we're capable of greater evil than animals ever could be.  for that reason, they don't deserve to be butchered.

But directly insulting the reader for eating meat is going to push people away before they ever consider their point; they're probably more likely to just run out and eat steaks just to spite them.

So, um.  Insulting people for eating meat is a losing strategy, but if you start telling them that the human race is pure evil = :perfect:?

Do we have an emoticon that conveys  :facepalm: to a greater degree of  :facepalm: ?

:endit:

All the vegans I personally know have been very mellow about their decision. It's the meat eaters that are beginning to itch my shit. Their persecution complexes are starting to rival that of evangelicals.

Seriously.  There's "PETA is tasteless and counterproductive" (true) and then there's "GODDAMN TINY PERCENT OF POPULATION IS OPPRESSING MY MAJORITY" crap.

all the chickens and turkeys would probably be eaten by foxes and stray dogs.

You do understand that there are untamed populations of both that thrive throughout the world, correct?

You DO understand that you're trying to explain the obvious to Drethelin, correct?

I don't know who took up the reins of translating this ship captain

...it DOES say "Brentai" right under his display name.

But I have no problem with what people do with their own diet, as long as they don't try and pawn it off on me. Can't expect everyone to have my world view, and in a way, I can admire dedication. I just think it's a waste of time(See: animal deaths associated to farming blahblahblah) and money.

The problem is that the way the meat industry is being run is not sustainable.  I don't evangelize about the fact that I don't eat mammals, but truth be told, it's NOT just my problem.  We've got cows destroying the ozone, pigs generating swamps of shit, and in general a culture of excess that needs to be curbed.

If I see someone driving a Hummer, I immediately assume that person is an asshole.  I don't have the same rush-to-judgement reaction when I see someone eating a burger, but I DO think people should probably spend more time thinking about where their food comes from.  (And of course this doesn't just apply to meat.  If you're eating produce that's out of season, you're wasting energy.)

Personally I'll stop killing animals for food around the same time as mostly everything else.

[...]

Also, why can't anyone else appreciate Geo's reasonable stance on the subject? Environmentalists generally don't go "OH MY GOD I MUST HAVE ZERO ENVIROMENTAL IMPACT". They minimize their impact. Which is a more reasonable, more appealing and ultimately more useful stance that doesn't scare people away and make you look like (as much as) a shitbag.

...You sort of just presented a false choice and then in the next paragraph explained why it's a false choice.

You know that meat in the grocery store?  The animal it came from is dead.  Refusing to eat that meat will not bring it back.  And unless you somehow convinced everybody in the store to avoid it, the butcher is going to keep right on meeting his quota.

This reasoning is completely asinine.  Carried to its logical conclusion, you're saying you should buy everything, everywhere; otherwise you're being wasteful.

:scanners:

GUILD.

Fear of traffic accidents and lung cancer is not the same as a moral stance against animal cruelty.  The meat industry is not dangerous to humans, therefore it is unlikely to cause a public outcry.

...
...
...
...You are saying that consumption of meat cannot cause health problems?

:facepalm:
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Detonator

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Re: Delicious Flesh
« Reply #62 on: August 08, 2008, 03:06:58 PM »

Kazz, when both Thad and Guild think your argument is pitiful, maybe you should hang it up.
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Kazz

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Re: Delicious Flesh
« Reply #63 on: August 08, 2008, 03:24:48 PM »

FINE

MEAT IS POISON
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Sharkey

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Re: Delicious Flesh
« Reply #64 on: August 08, 2008, 03:38:23 PM »

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Thad

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Re: Delicious Flesh
« Reply #65 on: August 08, 2008, 03:55:20 PM »

...Got hung up on the environmental impact/health points, but meant to add that we COULD treat our meat animals more humanely.  PETA presents a false choice -- killing animals brutally or not at all -- but it's quite possible for the industry to continue to exist while treating the animals better.

There's certainly an argument to be made for supporting local farmers.
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MadMAxJr

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Re: Delicious Flesh
« Reply #66 on: August 08, 2008, 04:15:49 PM »

There's certainly an argument to be made for supporting local farmers.

Funny you mention that.  The local supermarket chain here (Price Chopper) offers producs from a local farm under a 'Shatto' label.  Milk from non-horomone overloaded cows is actually pretty damn good.  However I don't know if the beef is also available.
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Sharkey

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Re: Delicious Flesh
« Reply #67 on: August 08, 2008, 04:19:46 PM »

Better solution: Require everyone to kill their own meat. If they can't or don't want to, great, have fun with your gardenburger. If they have the scrote, YAY STEAKS.

FUCKING NOTE: The B-12 in your goddamn vitamins comes from critters. If you don't like that then you can see how long you last without red blood cells.

Allowances will be made for those who prefer to take their B complexes in pill form, but they will be required to strangle a goddamn kitten before witnesses for each one they pop.

DOUBLEFUCKINGNOTE: Unless you're talking about plant-derived B-stuffs. Way to take a route that's actually more expensive and consumes more resources, carbon bigfoot. Keep drawing arbitrary lines wherever they happen to make you feel good. I'm fine with it either way. I'll be keeping my environmental impact low by eating your goddamn children.

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Guild

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Re: Delicious Flesh
« Reply #68 on: August 08, 2008, 04:33:48 PM »

FUCKING NOTE: The B-12 in your goddamn vitamins comes from critters. If you don't like that then you can see how long you last without red blood cells.

So THAT was her problem. I'm assuming. It could've been an iron deficiency for all I know.

Then again, I probably have a deficiency in whatever the heck plants give you. Cellulose? What's that? Have you met my friend colon cancer?
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James Edward Smith

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Re: Delicious Flesh
« Reply #69 on: August 08, 2008, 04:35:51 PM »

Someone remind me to hold out a bottle of barbeque sauce with my hand and say, "Well, you said you were eager back on the WFE a while back, now lets see if your fucking capable, asshole." before ever starting a fist fight to the death with Sharkey.
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Sharkey

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Re: Delicious Flesh
« Reply #70 on: August 08, 2008, 04:37:13 PM »

Why kill you when I could just fix your spelling?
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James Edward Smith

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Re: Delicious Flesh
« Reply #71 on: August 08, 2008, 04:39:59 PM »

I'd take my foot out of my mouth, but it was an honest typo and it's not like I'm from one of the Carolinas or something.
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Sharkey

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Re: Delicious Flesh
« Reply #72 on: August 08, 2008, 07:47:53 PM »

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Friday

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Re: Delicious Flesh
« Reply #73 on: August 08, 2008, 08:04:17 PM »

I actually know a couple of girls like that. Girl had a hamster for a week, had to get rid of it for fuck-if-i-can remember reason. Loses her mind. Uses it as an excuse to burst into tears and act like a bitch whenever she wants for the next week.

What are you going to do when I murder your family? Implode?
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Mongrel

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Re: Delicious Flesh
« Reply #74 on: August 08, 2008, 08:09:48 PM »

I'm thinking of taking up a stance where whenever I'm cooking for myself, I will avoid preparing meat when I really don't need to and try to stay away from it whenever possible. But, if I go into a restaurant and I can't see anything on the menu that I want that doesn't have meat in it, then I'll just order one of the meat things that I like. If I'm going over to someone's house, they will never have to prepare a meatless meal for me and can just cook whatever they want and I'll enjoy it.

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but it seems like almost no vegetarians do that, they all make a big deal about never eating meat again. Does it have to be all or nothing like that? I don't see why meat eating has to be treated like it's alcoholism, are people that weak? It's just a steak.

Like, I suppose the obvious response to this is that if you aren't eating meat because of the basic moral principle that killing animals for food when its not necessary is wrong, then you never want to eat them at all because you never want to be involved in that whole messy business in any possible way. But, I don't really respect that mentality much. I think that if you are trying to avoid it when doing so isn't being obnoxious, then you are doing enough to stop the unnecessary slaughter of animals and acting like it's unthinkable to eat a plate of Shepard's pie at someone's house when we live in a society that slaughters quatloos of animals by the cubit every galactic year is being silly and naive.

This is actually the exact attitude of the more sensible vegetarians I know. Sematics aside, when I watch it in practise, it's extremely sensible. I'd like to emulate it, but I know I'll never give up meat. What I do intend to do is as Niku said, simply take up 'healthy eating' where you don't eat so much meat all the time. I have so far at least succeeding in ridding myself of the silly notion that I once held that 'it's not dinner without meat'. My eventual plan (on a personal level) is to someday be at a point where I eat meat maybe 1-3 days per week. I'm a long way off from that point, but then I've always preferred gradual transitions.

This all reminds me that several times I've seen studies quoted as saying a balanced diet with a small amount of meat is both healthiest for humans AND best for the environment. The most efficent use of land for human food production involves having a meat component to your diet since there is a finite amount of prime growing land on this earth. Marginal land that makes poor farmland is often more efficiently used as pasture, rather than forcing farming on every halfway level scrap of turf. Thus rasing crops on the land that can support crops and raising animals on more marginal land represents the most efficient overall use of land.

Also, in another intutitive pattern, meat that is raised in a healthy, freer, more natural way just tastes better.

Honestly, the planet is nine steps ahead of our dumb monkey asses. These problems have all been worked out for us already thousands of years ago - mother nature even provided us with feedback response mechanisms. If we're too dumb to read the ninety-foot font, well, hey we'll deserve what we get.
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Mongrel

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Re: Delicious Flesh
« Reply #75 on: August 08, 2008, 08:17:01 PM »

Separate points:

I'm very happy to be married to a person who is a near-vegan but is PRACTICAL about it. She will not eat meat, or most meat byproducts (has some dairy now, but when I met her she was straight up vegan), but has never ever had an issue with my eating meat. The other side of the coin is that it makes it much easier to reduce my meat consumption when there's someone around who can prepare fantastic vegetarian dishes.

Also, Koipond is an extremely strict vegan (he's actually the most hardcore vegan I know) but he also has no problem with people around him eating meat.
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Brentai

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Re: Delicious Flesh
« Reply #76 on: August 08, 2008, 09:09:07 PM »

Yeah, being able to or having someone around who can satisfy your cravings without easy meat is probably a huge factor.  If I were more inclined toward stealing girlfriends I'd probably be a vegetarian now too.
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Thad

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Re: Delicious Flesh
« Reply #77 on: August 09, 2008, 01:41:05 AM »

FUCKING NOTE: The B-12 in your goddamn vitamins comes from critters. If you don't like that then you can see how long you last without red blood cells.

Where does the B-6 come from?  Because I drank 6 beers tonight and am sincerely hoping to avoid a hangover tomorrow.

(All right, I'm a lightweight.  6 beers is a lot to me.  It was a lousy damn night; fuck all o'y'all.)
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Cthulhu-chan

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Re: Delicious Flesh
« Reply #78 on: August 09, 2008, 01:47:57 AM »

I think keeping hydrated will do more for you than taking vitamins or whatever.
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Thad

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Re: Delicious Flesh
« Reply #79 on: August 09, 2008, 01:56:26 AM »

Dude, c'mon.  One Phoenecian to another, you don't need to tell me to keep hydrated.  I'm doing that too.

(PS we should go out for beers sometime.)
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