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Poll

There can only be one

Final Fantasy VI
- 13 (35.1%)
Chrono Trigger
- 24 (64.9%)

Total Members Voted: 37


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Author Topic: Chrono Trigger DS  (Read 32803 times)

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Bongo Bill

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS
« Reply #300 on: November 23, 2008, 11:45:25 PM »

I'm not sure I really want Trigger and Cross to be that closely related. I pretend that Cross is an unrelated story that turned into vaguely Chrono Trigger fanfiction in the eleventh hour. They're so unlike each other that I think any attempt to connect them seems to diminish both.
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Thad

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS
« Reply #301 on: November 24, 2008, 12:04:58 PM »

...but some of said holes were addressed elsewhere entirely, i.e. not in the game, which is the sticking point.  It's not unreasonable to expect a game's story to be entirely in the game and not, say, in something you need to import or wait for someone else to import and translate.  Unless I'm misreading something.

You're talking about Radical Dreamers, right?  Okay, that's got two major plot points: Kid is Schala, and Gil is Magus.  Both of these are retconned somewhat in Cross, with Kid becoming a "clone-daughter" and some rather mixed messages about whether or not Guile is Magus.  He resembles him, optionally fills the same role in the Viper Manor story, and there's a letter from Lucca implying that Magus is part of Serge's crew, but he never acts particularly Magus-y and, like most of the cast of Cross, speaks mostly in generic, interchangeable phrases at plot points.  I think in the last Guile/Magus conversation we ultimately settled on the view that he was intended to be Magus but that the writers dropped that development partway through; IIRC Wikipedia has a quote to that effect.

So it sounds like that part's being more thoroughly fleshed out in the Trigger re-release.  And, as I say, I think it's likely that we'll eventually get a Cross remake that does a much better job with these details -- I just don't think it'll be anytime soon.

I'm not sure I really want Trigger and Cross to be that closely related. I pretend that Cross is an unrelated story that turned into vaguely Chrono Trigger fanfiction in the eleventh hour. They're so unlike each other that I think any attempt to connect them seems to diminish both.

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Kayma

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS
« Reply #302 on: November 24, 2008, 12:08:45 PM »

If I never see the term "clone-daughter" ever again, I'll just be fucking stoked.
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Koah

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS
« Reply #303 on: November 24, 2008, 01:11:17 PM »

...but some of said holes were addressed elsewhere entirely, i.e. not in the game, which is the sticking point.  It's not unreasonable to expect a game's story to be entirely in the game and not, say, in something you need to import or wait for someone else to import and translate.  Unless I'm misreading something.
You're talking about Radical Dreamers, right?

Actually, I uh... meant things like why Porre is a massive military power all of a sudden, all the time travel models that inevitably ended up conflicting with each other, what happened to the CT crew that wasn't Lucca or Robo, how the Masamune turned evil and ended up in a large island archipelago never seen in CT, and generally anything that is only mentioned in things like Perfect Works guides and the published equivalent of scribbled margin notes.

Now that I think about it ("it" being a total non sequitur), CT never really took the time travel thing as seriously as CC did; it routinely used different types of time travel models but it never actually drew attention to them so you never really questioned it.  It was all just, "here's the problem, here's how we're going to fix it."  When CC tried to be all complex, that was when people started thinking about time travel when their minds wandered from the byzantine morass that was the main story.

Honestly, I blame all this on Masato Kato.
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Smiler

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS
« Reply #304 on: November 24, 2008, 01:49:31 PM »

BongoBill: The fetch quests get boring halfway through because you are forced to go through the same area 20 + times with annoying battles that you can't avoid.

The boss battles are cool at least.
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McDohl

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS
« Reply #305 on: November 24, 2008, 01:57:38 PM »

Masato Kato.
XENOGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEARS :MENDOZAAAAA:
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Brentai

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS
« Reply #306 on: November 24, 2008, 02:01:39 PM »

As I understand it, the incongruities within Cross are somewhat intentional, i.e. all the mucking about in the timestream and parallel universes has caused everything to be, frankly, fucked the hell up.  So it's not worth trying to understand.  It's like the Square version of KateStory.

Also I think the Masamune thing is because the CT Masamune wasn't called the Masamune in Japan but the CC one actually was.  Or maybe not.  I don't care!
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Thad

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS
« Reply #307 on: November 24, 2008, 02:03:01 PM »

Actually, I uh... meant things like why Porre is a massive military power all of a sudden,

A twist, but not one that I thought required explanation.

all the time travel models that inevitably ended up conflicting with each other,

I'd say that's less something that was insufficiently explained than simple bad writing.

what happened to the CT crew that wasn't Lucca or Robo,

It's pretty clearly implied that Crono and Marle are dead, but I don't remember a "how" in there anywhere.  Frog and Ayla would have been long-dead, and Guile was supposed to be Magus, at least at one point in the writing.

how the Masamune turned evil and ended up in a large island archipelago never seen in CT,

That one I'll grant.  I think it was in one of the new endings on the PS1 version of CT.

and generally anything that is only mentioned in things like Perfect Works guides and the published equivalent of scribbled margin notes.

Yeah, basically all the continuity stuff feels slapdash; see response to Classic, below.

Now that I think about it ("it" being a total non sequitur), CT never really took the time travel thing as seriously as CC did; it routinely used different types of time travel models but it never actually drew attention to them so you never really questioned it.  It was all just, "here's the problem, here's how we're going to fix it."  When CC tried to be all complex, that was when people started thinking about time travel when their minds wandered from the byzantine morass that was the main story.

CT never took ANYTHING as seriously as CC did.

I'm on the fence about whether Thad actually agrees or not. It's pretty damned confusing!

I didn't think it was ambiguous.  All the Trigger callbacks in Cross feel like poorly-explained, shoehorned-in fanfic; Hak's got several examples I've quoted above.

I guess I wouldn't go so far as to say they diminish BOTH CT and CC, as the latter's story would STILL be a fucking godawful mess even without all the CT stuff, but the "EVERYBODY DIES" revelation is totally out of step with the upbeat tone of CT.  (Though again, working Lucca's death in as a retread of her mother's crippling in the original is appropriate.)

As I understand it, the incongruities within Cross are somewhat intentional, i.e. all the mucking about in the timestream and parallel universes has caused everything to be, frankly, fucked the hell up.

Right; any game that's about parallel universes can be safely dismissed from belonging to the same timeline as the original.
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Re: Chrono Trigger DS
« Reply #308 on: November 24, 2008, 02:24:42 PM »

To my knowledge, the PS1 CT was a port with Anime cutscenes and a system to track which endings you got - but it had no actual new endings.
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Classic

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS
« Reply #309 on: November 24, 2008, 02:55:52 PM »

Unless you count FMV embellishments.
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Arc

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS
« Reply #310 on: November 24, 2008, 02:56:26 PM »

:kowhyee: I do.

Cha-ching.
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Thad

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS
« Reply #311 on: November 24, 2008, 03:50:53 PM »

Found it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE2uHFJCgQw

I hereby rescind any implication that this helps to explain anything, at all.

And while I don't think "How did Porre become a military power?" itself requires any explanation, I DO think "How did Porre become a military power in FIVE FUCKING YEARS?" does.  And "Dinosaurs from a parallel universe did it" is not a good answer.
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Disposable Ninja

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS
« Reply #312 on: November 24, 2008, 03:57:43 PM »

Porre might have became a military power before the events of Chrono Trigger after the events of Chrono Trigger.

Obviously.
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Rosencrantz

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS
« Reply #313 on: November 24, 2008, 04:15:31 PM »

Porre might have became a military power before the events of Chrono Trigger after the events of Chrono Trigger.

Obviously.

This was brought up already in this thread, but in the middle of spoiler tags: [spoiler]at the end of CTDS, Dalton says that in order to get revenge on Crono and friends, he would build up a military in Porre to defeat Guardia. That's right: it's basically just tossed in there.[/spoiler]
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Brentai

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS
« Reply #314 on: November 24, 2008, 04:24:58 PM »

It's pretty clearly implied that Crono and Marle are dead, but I don't remember a "how" in there anywhere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE2uHFJCgQw

I'ma guessing that'd do it.

This was brought up already in this thread, but in the middle of spoiler tags: [spoiler]at the end of CTDS, Dalton says that in order to get revenge on Crono and friends, he would build up a military in Porre to defeat Guardia. That's right: it's basically just tossed in there.[/spoiler]

Eeyup.

Apparently Square didn't think much of the main characters either.   :gay4:
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Koah

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS
« Reply #315 on: November 24, 2008, 04:29:52 PM »

Found it:

(video)

I hereby rescind any implication that this helps to explain anything, at all.

And while I don't think "How did Porre become a military power?" itself requires any explanation, I DO think "How did Porre become a military power in FIVE FUCKING YEARS?" does.  And "Dinosaurs from a parallel universe did it" is not a good answer.

See, that's it.  Porre is not a threat in CT, so having them rise up in five years and conquer like, half the world is a little strange.  Although considering that I'm writing this in the middle of a reply storm I can add questions like [spoiler]"How did Dalton get sent forward 13,000 years in time?  After getting sucked into one of his golem-transporting portal whachamabobs, no less?"[/spoiler] in reply to the answer supplied by Rosen. [spoiler]The answer is, unfortunately, patently idiotic.  Did anyone see Dalton as anything but a recurring comedy relief lackey?[/spoiler]

See, now they're retconning things in the prequel to fit with the new sequel that, when it was released, retconned what happened in the old sequel that - get this - explained everything that happened in the prequel.  Which isn't old news, of course, but it's still :angry:.

Also, there's a difference between killing people offscreen and not telling anyone and simply not giving enough of a crispy shit about them to tell anyone about their fates.  Bit of an "I know you liked them, but this story isn't about them, now is it?" kind of situation, there.
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Doom

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS
« Reply #316 on: November 24, 2008, 04:31:54 PM »

[spoiler]What we clearly need is a Chrono Trigger sequel transcribing the events of 1000-1005 AD.

War against the nightmarish legions of Golems led by an ancient, time-warped Dalton riding the rusted remains of Epoch.[/spoiler]
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Kayma

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS
« Reply #317 on: November 24, 2008, 04:44:56 PM »

[spoiler]What we clearly need is a Chrono Trigger sequel transcribing the events of 1000-1005 AD.

War against the nightmarish legions of Golems led by an ancient, time-warped Dalton riding the rusted remains of Epoch.[/spoiler]

 :tears: I would play that SO HARD and hatelove every second of it.
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McDohl

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS
« Reply #318 on: November 24, 2008, 04:58:17 PM »

So, I got The Gamestop Call a little while ago.  I thought it wasn't coming out until Black Friday, but apparently, it's coming out tomorrow.  Between this, Fallout 3, and Dave Sirlin's Street Fighter 2 PLAY TO WIN PENULTIMATE EDITION WITH VERY PRETTY GRAPHICS, I'm gonna be a busy little bee this Thanksgiving weekend.
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Bongo Bill

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS
« Reply #319 on: November 25, 2008, 12:16:47 PM »

I actually rather like the new localization. Touchscreen controls might work well, but who knows? I'm not using 'em!
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