Topic: It's the economy, stupid! (Read 69324 times)

Thad · « **Reply #620 on:** July 22, 2011, 03:47:09 PM »

I am currently getting a "Server is too busy" error when I attempt to connect to speaker.gov.

If I could connect, here is the message I would send:

Quote

Dear Speaker Gingrich,

Clinton/Gore '96!

Love,

George Santayana

PS: Should you be looking for work in the immediate future, I hear there will be an opening at Fox News soon. I already know you're good at crying; how are you at writing crazy shit on blackboards?

Thad · « **Reply #621 on:** July 22, 2011, 04:25:24 PM »

With slightly less snark:

Everything I said before still holds; this is a sideshow, and while it's nice to see Obama finally grow a spine, I'm not going to praise him for playing chicken with the economy instead of arguing the Fourteenth Amendment.

Maybe they'll get a Band-Aid in place in the next week and maybe they won't. If we DO miss the deadline, I don't think we'll hit the apocalyptic scenario that many are describing, but it IS likely to be worse than the '96 government shutdown. And yeah, the parallels are pretty obvious; I don't think '12 will be kind to the Tea Party.

Mongrel · « **Reply #622 on:** July 22, 2011, 05:24:53 PM »

Say, what if Obama has fallen for the Republican claptrap and honestly believes he can't invoke the 14th?

Brentai · « **Reply #623 on:** July 22, 2011, 05:42:18 PM »

I think he's just very tired of talking about it.

Thad · « **Reply #624 on:** July 22, 2011, 06:15:19 PM »

Quote from: Mongrel on July 22, 2011, 05:24:53 PM

Say, what if Obama has fallen for the Republican claptrap and honestly believes he can't invoke the 14th?

Dude's got a Harvard degree in constitutional law. I think this is a nakedly political move.

Thad · « **Reply #625 on:** July 22, 2011, 07:02:11 PM »

Quote from: Thad on July 22, 2011, 03:47:09 PM

I am currently getting a "Server is too busy" error when I attempt to connect to speaker.gov.

It's up now but the JavaScript's been borked to make nearly every link on the page point to his latest press release.

Redirecting a "Contact" link to a press release is a pretty good metaphor for our entire political system, really.

Heard both press conferences earlier on the radio. Was nice hearing Obama finally sound pissed off about something; Boehner, meanwhile, came across as a petulant child swearing that he is too a grownup. A charismatic leader might be able to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat here, but Boehner has no shot at competing with Obama in terms of oratory.

Meanwhile, new CBS poll shows 71% disapproving of Republicans' handling of the crisis. It presumably was not taken in the past six hours, so things are going to get even worse for them.

Boehner knows all this; there's a reason he's been trying to strike a deal with Obama. He knows just how fucked he is at this point, but he also knows he no longer has any control over his caucus.

Really this all belongs in the Eat Itself thread: establishment Republicans have spouted a bunch of nonsense they don't really believe in since the Reagan Administration, and didn't really think through what would happen if their constituents started voting for people who ACTUALLY believe in it. Relevant cartoon.

Saturn · « **Reply #626 on:** July 22, 2011, 07:32:22 PM »

Bohener is clearly afraid of norquist/other clowns withholding donations to the gop if there is any chance of the ultra-rich having to pay more taxes

Thad · « **Reply #627 on:** July 22, 2011, 07:39:44 PM »

Well, yes.

Which he and his party should have thought of over the course of the past 25 years they spent kissing Norquist's ass to court the lunatic fringe vote.

Because it turns out that granting increasing control of your party to crazy people is, well, a great example of the short-term thinking we were talking about on the previous page.

Mongrel · « **Reply #628 on:** July 22, 2011, 09:46:39 PM »

The previous page? Oh come on, do you expect anybody to remember anything from that long ago?

Brentai · « **Reply #629 on:** July 23, 2011, 07:03:55 AM »

The problem with defaulting is that it may or may not have been so bad by itself but it's going to be a huge bitch now that one party has realized that their popularity next year is directly tied to how badly the middle class gets fucked over by it.

Brentai · « **Reply #630 on:** July 23, 2011, 07:05:23 AM »

I'm gonna really enjoy the month or so I get to keep my house btw.

Classic · « **Reply #631 on:** July 23, 2011, 07:06:50 AM »

Do you have homeowner's insurance?

Thad · « **Reply #632 on:** July 23, 2011, 11:13:37 AM »

Quote from: Brentai on July 23, 2011, 07:03:55 AM

The problem with defaulting is that it may or may not have been so bad by itself but it's going to be a huge bitch now that one party has realized that their popularity next year is directly tied to how badly the middle class gets fucked over by it.

Assuming you're referring to the Democrats, well, that still gives them quite a lot of motivation to pass something that un-fucks the middle class.

As for the Republicans, we'll see. There's a contingent of the party now that seriously will not budge no matter WHAT happens, and that's why we're here now.

Some of the Tea Partiers will probably change their stance after a default (assuming one happens and we don't just slap a McConnell Band-Aid on it, which seems like the likeliest outcome at this point but which itself depends on House Republicans budging), either motivated by reelection or just because some of them are not entirely insane. Scott Brown, for example, has proven willing to cross the aisle in the past (though again, he's a Senator and the problem is the House). The question is will ENOUGH of them change sides?

I don't think anything's going to pass the House without pressure from the GOP leadership, and pressure from the leadership hasn't helped so far -- and they're only going to exert so much pressure if they can't get at least 50% of the caucus to go along with them.

(Also, while I think Boehner would play ball if the rest of his party would go along with it, Cantor has made it pretty clear he won't.)

Brentai · « **Reply #633 on:** July 23, 2011, 11:21:24 AM »

Some of the Tea Partiers have already tried to redefine the meaning of the word "tax", which as right-wing doublespeak goes isn't quite as bad as "rape" and "war".

Also I was referring to the Dems. Obama in particular has as much as said he will take special pains to put the bill on the elderly if this goes to default, because he knows exactly where to kick these assholes while they're down.

Thad · « **Reply #634 on:** July 23, 2011, 01:16:01 PM »

Quote from: Brentai on July 23, 2011, 11:21:24 AM

Some of the Tea Partiers have already tried to redefine the meaning of the word "tax"

Plenty of that on both sides. But yeah, cute how cutting subsidies counts as a tax hike instead of a spending cut.

Norquist is playing the "Cutting subsidies isn't a tax hike as long as you replace them with equal tax cuts" game.

Quote from: Brentai on July 23, 2011, 11:21:24 AM

Also I was referring to the Dems. Obama in particular has as much as said he will take special pains to put the bill on the elderly if this goes to default, because he knows exactly where to kick these assholes while they're down.

Yeah, he is absolutely playing this for maximum political benefit instead of minimal human suffering. But I doubt it's just Social Security checks that will suffer if there IS a default; I expect immediate '95-style government shutdown as well. And, you know, a stock market plunge.

Would be swell to see a bunch of lobbyists start screaming "You dumb fuckers, we just lost more money than if you'd just raised taxes 2%", but I'm not holding my breath for that.

And I should add that, schadenfreude aside, I am hoping there ISN'T a fucking default/shutdown/market plunge, because again, political points are not worth human suffering. But I'm not the President.

François · « **Reply #635 on:** July 23, 2011, 02:03:26 PM »

Yeah, I'd probably want to see the US government shut down a lot less if I wasn't Canadian.

But there's that thing about Canada sneezing when the US has the flu, main trade partner and all, so yeah that schadenfreude is gonna be well and truly paid for I bet.

Smiler · « **Reply #636 on:** July 25, 2011, 08:47:24 AM »

http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/07/25/277811/harry-reid-calls-house-republicans-bluff/

Quote

Something you often see in negotiations is a mismatch between one side’s stated sticking points and its real sticking points. In the debate over the debt ceiling, for example, Republicans have sought to portray themselves as having two bottom lines. One is that any increase in the debt ceiling must be met dollar-for-dollar with spending cuts. The other is that no revenue increases can be part of the deal. What Harry Reid did yesterday was essentially call the GOP’s bluff by outlining a plan that raises the debt ceiling by $2.7 trillion and includes $2.7 trillion in spending cuts, a healthy share of which comes from winding down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Republicans are rejecting this even though it nominally meets their demands. Why? Because it doesn’t achieve either of their two real objectives. In particular, the plan doesn’t cut Medicare, which means that Democratic party candidates for office in November 2012 and 2014 can accurately remind voters of the content of the Republican budget plan. In case you forgot, this plans repeals Medicare. Having repealed Medicare, it then gives seniors vouchers to purchase more expensive private health insurance. And having replaced Medicare with a voucher system, it then ensures that the vouchers will grow steadily stingier over time. It was only after voting for this plan that Republicans seem to have realized that repealing Medicare is unpopular. Since that time, they’ve been trying to entrap Democrats into reaching some kind of Medicare détente with them, which would immunize them from criticism. Reid’s plan doesn’t do that.

Second, while Reid’s plan doesn’t raise taxes, it also doesn’t take tax increases off the table. Currently, the Bush tax cuts are scheduled to expire in 2012. If Reid’s all-cuts plan passes, that still leaves the door open to significant revenue increases. Now that doesn’t mean this is brilliant 11-dimensional chess. The Reid Plan is consistent with substantial revenues coming online in 2012, but that will only happen if President Obama and Senate Democrats stand firm and play hardball on the tax issue. Back in December 2010, they utterly failed to do so.

Bal · « **Reply #637 on:** July 26, 2011, 02:58:41 AM »

I'm mostly concerned about this because if the SSDI payments don't go out like they should, I have family that will literally die because they can't afford their medication. So... Probably get SOMETHING done, government.

Ziiro · « **Reply #638 on:** July 26, 2011, 08:24:51 AM »

Full Video-Obama Addresses Nation On Debt Ceiling Negotiations

Boehner's response:

John Boehner's republican response on debt crisis

Mothra · « **Reply #639 on:** July 26, 2011, 09:41:44 AM »

Christ, what a jackass

News:

Author Topic: It's the economy, stupid! (Read 69324 times)