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Author Topic: ¡Science!  (Read 61869 times)

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Niku

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Re: ¡Science!
« Reply #280 on: October 14, 2009, 03:35:02 PM »

Wouldn't time being static and us moving mean that we exist in every space that we have ever or will ever occupy in time, simultaneously, or am I misunderstanding your idea?

Yes, but the Langoliers take care of the chaff.
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i'm a blog now, blogs are cool: a fantastic machine made of meat

Mongrel

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Re: ¡Science!
« Reply #281 on: October 14, 2009, 03:36:55 PM »

:whoops: :hi5:

Nice.
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Norondor

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Re: ¡Science!
« Reply #282 on: October 14, 2009, 03:39:05 PM »

Wouldn't time being static and us moving mean that we exist in every space that we have ever or will ever occupy in time, simultaneously, or am I misunderstanding your idea?

Four-dimensional space, bro
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Royal☭

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Re: ¡Science!
« Reply #283 on: October 14, 2009, 03:41:19 PM »

I guess the future trying to sabotage the LHC is a better explanation than that a large, complex piece of machinery might have problems.

PhilosopherDirtbike

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Re: ¡Science!
« Reply #284 on: October 14, 2009, 03:41:56 PM »

Somebody get Stephen King a white smock and a fancy diploma.

My imagination came up with a nightmarish past world where it looks like when you win a game of Solitare on the computer and the cards dance everywhere leaving shadow images of themselves and filling the screen. A sea of photocopied meat with everything that has ever lived everywhere it ever was, all at once. Would make an interesting desktop wallpaper.

EDIT: That damn 4th dimension gets me everytime. I really need to study that stuff a bit more.
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Brentai

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Re: ¡Science!
« Reply #285 on: October 14, 2009, 06:29:05 PM »

So basically what we're dealing with here is THE UNOBSERVABLE HIGGS!.
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Kayma

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Re: ¡Science!
« Reply #286 on: October 14, 2009, 06:57:57 PM »

 :shrug: Go figure.
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Classic

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Re: ¡Science!
« Reply #287 on: October 14, 2009, 09:03:58 PM »

I forget, does relativity mean time warps when space warps, or are we just moving to a different, slower passing "time" when we move really fast?
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Norondor

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Re: ¡Science!
« Reply #288 on: October 14, 2009, 09:09:29 PM »

the former (or rather, there's no difference; four-dimensional spaaaaaace)
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Mongrel

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Re: ¡Science!
« Reply #289 on: October 15, 2009, 02:51:07 AM »

AHM GIVIN' HER ALL SHE'S GOT CAPTAIN! I CANNA DO NO MORE!
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Büge

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Re: ¡Science!
« Reply #290 on: October 15, 2009, 03:22:53 AM »

bonk
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McDohl

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Re: ¡Science!
« Reply #291 on: October 15, 2009, 11:53:30 AM »

Think fast, chucklenuts!
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Classic

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Re: ¡Science!
« Reply #292 on: October 15, 2009, 01:01:19 PM »

the former (or rather, there's no difference; four-dimensional spaaaaaace)

So... the fourth dimension is... the rate at which we perceive time to pass? No... No, I need to stop thinking about this and worry about my actual schoolwork.
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Norondor

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Re: ¡Science!
« Reply #293 on: October 15, 2009, 01:41:48 PM »

ok, like this. a line is defined by a series of points (1-dimensional objects), right? and a cube is defined (well, its boundaries, etc) by a series of 2-dimensional shapes, right? Well, a hypercube is defined by 3-dimensional objects in the same way -- its boundaries are described by 3-dimensional "points." There's no way to describe what this would look like, really, we don't have any point of reference. But anyway, the universe is similar -- time and space are the same thing, a description of the motion of objects in four dimensions. If you jump into the air, you're moving up, then down, but also "forward" through space-time... which is not really "forward" at all, since if you had an outside perspective (as in, outside time), you could take a look at the whole sequence forward or backward, like looking at a fly trapped in amber. Only amber with... playback? It's hard to describe.
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Brentai

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Re: ¡Science!
« Reply #294 on: October 15, 2009, 01:58:19 PM »

Thing is, the quicker you move in three dimensions, the quicker you move in the fourth dimension due to some funky hyperspatial inertia.

You can't move backwards in time because (reasons).  But you can end up catapulting forward, producing that 1-year-to-me-is-80-to-you effect that sci-fi writers love so much.
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Norondor

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Re: ¡Science!
« Reply #295 on: October 15, 2009, 02:05:07 PM »

You can't move backwards in time because (reasons).

You can't MOVE that way, but you already exist in that direction. You're just back there. There's probably no way to move backwards in time because that idea is incoherent -- if you went back in time, that would only mean that you were ALREADY going back in time, had already gone back in time. You're already trapped in amber there.

"Time travel" is not possible without actually re-writing the fundamental informational understructure of the universe. And even then, it's essentially a religious question rather than a scientific one.
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Mongrel

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Re: ¡Science!
« Reply #296 on: October 15, 2009, 02:06:31 PM »

I'm waiting for someone to invoke timecube...
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Miss Cat Ears

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Re: ¡Science!
« Reply #297 on: October 15, 2009, 02:38:27 PM »

I studied this for a while and I'm really interested in all the different viewpoints here.
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Büge

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Re: ¡Science!
« Reply #298 on: October 15, 2009, 04:12:59 PM »



IT'S A SERIES OF TUBES!
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Transportation

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Re: ¡Science!
« Reply #299 on: October 16, 2009, 12:56:17 PM »

You can't move backwards in time because (reasons).

You can't MOVE that way, but you already exist in that direction. You're just back there. There's probably no way to move backwards in time because that idea is incoherent -- if you went back in time, that would only mean that you were ALREADY going back in time, had already gone back in time. You're already trapped in amber there.

Well, from a many worlds interpretation of quantum theory* you'd just be connecting yourself to another universe/state/whatever, bypassing the arguments for deterministic time travel. Of course, I suppose that might limit the motivations to do it, since you wouldn't be changing "your" universe (this is debatable in my opinion). There are closed timelike curves (CTC) in General relativity (physicists hate these) and standard measurent quantum fuzziness (not really exploitable) that leaves a tiny glimmer of possibility for it.

Although none of these really affect your frozen/amber spacetime metaphor, it's just that it makes the amber much, much bigger.

I always liked the hypothetical time machine could just destroy the universe along the time axis past the point you're travelling to, but I can't think of anything supporting it beyond zany morality problems.

Anyway, if you're (this is plural) going to talk about time travel, you'll probably want to have a vague understanding of special relativity (ok tutorial). It makes the reasoning for FTL = time travel less inexplicable and is kinda fundamental for understanding what "spacetime" actually means in a physical sense.

*Yes I know it's unfalsifiable at the moment but it's so elegant come on
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