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[Brentai]

M&B is another pretty good template, yeah.  Definitely a different one.  Does it have a first-person view mode?  I kind of only played the demo.

The big difference between M&B and TES is that TES consistently commits the Unforgivable Sin of enemies not reacting to damage taken (or blocked, in MB's case).  I haven't seen the Skyrim trailer so I don't know if they really fixed that or not but I'm going to bet no, because Bethesda seems to take special care in maintaining that weird this-world-is-populated-by-robots feeling in their games and the transition from malicious, unfeeling mannequin to suddenly limp rag on death accomplishes that beautifully.

[patito]

Fallout had limb damage, and enemies would only react when you crippled a particular part of their bodes, not with every bullet, but at least that's something.

[Norondor]

in M&B you can go first-person by zooming all the way in, i am pretty sure. i never did because that's rather dangerous!

But it also helps that MB has a quick, intuitive fighting system that allows you to rapidly aim and adjust your angle of attack, and just as rapidly protect yourself. It's simple, but it's fast enough that it's fun without super moves or musou mode or what-have-you.

[Brentai]

iirc they only reacted if the crippling changed their regular animations, i.e. from walking to limping.  Otherwise the only indication you ever received that you just, say, inflicted traumatic brain damage on someone was a little text box saying you "crippled his head".

[Friday]

I remember there was a cheat code (something like "realisticsabrecombat) in Jedi Knight 2 that let you actually cut stormtrooper's limbs off in a fairly realistic manner. It made the game really fucking fun. The fact that this was a CHEAT code and not part of the normal game speaks very clearly that game designers think completely abstract damage models (i.e. they are fine until their hp drops to zero) are perfectly OK in games.

WHY they think this is a mystery. Perhaps they are also robots?

[TA]

I remember there was a cheat code (something like "realisticsabrecombat) in Jedi Knight 2 that let you actually cut stormtrooper's limbs off in a fairly realistic manner. It made the game really fucking fun. The fact that this was a CHEAT code and not part of the normal game speaks very clearly that game designers think completely abstract damage models (i.e. they are fine until their hp drops to zero) are perfectly OK in games.

WHY they think this is a mystery. Perhaps they are also robots?

Or that ratings exist.

[A²]

saberrealisticcombat 1

yes I have it memorized as well as most of jk2 why do you ask.

[Ziiro]

Here's to hoping Metal Gear Rising does dismemberment well.

[patito]

iirc they only reacted if the crippling changed their regular animations, i.e. from walking to limping.  Otherwise the only indication you ever received that you just, say, inflicted traumatic brain damage on someone was a little text box saying you "crippled his head".

Don't remember fallout 3 but new vegas has them holding their heads for a while when you cripple a head.

[Büge]

That explains a lot.

[Friday]

Goldeneye managed to get away with T rating in the US despite the as of then revolutionary realistic flinching when shot mechanic, though Perfect Dark got upgraded to M.

I can tolerate a complete lack of blood a lot better than a complete lack of reacting when damaged, and I think most people feel the same way. My point being, I think it's the gore that gets the higher ratings, not just enemy reactions. Though you're right that having saber realistic combat would probably have upgraded jk2 to mature and that may have been the reason it was only included as a cheat code.

Doom, of course, was in part so successful because it had both; demons would groan, flinch, and spout copious amount of gore whenever hit, which made shooting them incredibly satisfying.

[Norondor]

that and the noise the super shotgun made

[Brentai]

More importantly, it made who to shoot when tactically significant, rather than "I must put x number of bullets in target y to make him go away."

I still maintain that this is an Unforgivable Sin but looking back on it, well, you rarely hear people say that Half-Life's biggest weakness is its combat mechanics, even when you're SMGing a guy's head and the only indication that it's doing anything is blood teleporting out of his helmet.

[Stush]

This was one of my big problems with the X games, In like, freelancer and freespace, you could wear the big ships down, destroying turrets and subsystems, they'd get weaker as you go. In X, the enemy ships are at full power until they die. At least the new game is gonna be fixing that.

I like the idea of damage systems that aren't just a HP bar, like the vehicles in the Men at war system. You can fire shells at the front of a tiger tank all day, and nothing's going to happen, but one shot through the back armour will probably hit the ammo or the fuel tank and blow it up. I'd like to see games have more systems where vehicles actually take realistic damage to their engines and weapons and stuff, and aren't at full power until you wear a bar down.

[Classic]

So I want to rant about how much I'm buying into the Skyrim hype, but I'm thinking that making a thread titled:

NEVER FORGET! 11-11-11

is about the most tasteless thing I can do.

[Bal]

There has never been a good Elder Scrolls game. I sense no change in the air.

[Classic]

Them's fighting words boy.

[Beat Bandit]

There has never been a bad Elder Scrolls game. I sense no change in the air.

Silly Bal with his being wrong.

[Bal]

No, Bethesda are incompetent goons, and every Elder Scrolls game has been modded into a playable state post release.

[Beat Bandit]

Yeah, a reputation for releasing games that millions enjoy for 50+ hours and invite a mod community strong enough to add hundreds more to the play time sure sounds like the definition of bad to me.