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Author Topic: License to Go Plan Recreational Murders  (Read 23494 times)

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Smiler

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Re: License to Go Plan Recreational Murders
« Reply #220 on: July 14, 2013, 01:49:15 AM »

Hell, in my city two days ago there was a rolling shootout that went on for about 2 miles because a guy flashed a gun at another guy, and his defense for starting the shootout was "IF I DIDN'T STOP HIM, WHAT IF THE NEXT GUY HE FLASHED A GUN AT DIDN'T HAVE A GUN?" And people still wonder why it might be a bad idea to let everyone carry their gun in public.
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jsnlxndrlv

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Re: License to Go Plan Recreational Murders
« Reply #221 on: July 14, 2013, 02:22:11 AM »

First: civil wrongful death suit.

Reddit is terrible, but I just read this exchange and started wondering:

Quote
[–]drhuntzzz 163 points 12 hours ago
Wrongful death suit coming up next...
permalinkparent
[–]Mr_Yeshuite 237 points 11 hours ago
i could be wrong, as i work in law in another state, but i believe that florida law protects you from a civil suit if you succeed with a self defense claim.
permalinkparent
[–]DeuxBoy 186 points 11 hours ago
You are correct. Zimmerman would most likely be granted immunity.
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Mongrel

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Re: License to Go Plan Recreational Murders
« Reply #222 on: July 14, 2013, 02:42:06 AM »

Quote from: McClain
Zimmerman is America. He thought he was an action hero coming to save the day, but it turns out he was just an idiot with a gun, and he killed a kid and never denied it and he got away with it.

The greatest country on earth, right?

McClain who? The McClain sisters?

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R^2

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Re: License to Go Plan Recreational Murders
« Reply #223 on: July 14, 2013, 03:43:26 AM »

Sounds like something McClain from Talking Time might say.
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TA

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Re: License to Go Plan Recreational Murders
« Reply #224 on: July 14, 2013, 04:19:27 AM »

First: civil wrongful death suit.

Reddit is terrible, but I just read this exchange and started wondering:

Quote
[–]drhuntzzz 163 points 12 hours ago
Wrongful death suit coming up next...
permalinkparent
[–]Mr_Yeshuite 237 points 11 hours ago
i could be wrong, as i work in law in another state, but i believe that florida law protects you from a civil suit if you succeed with a self defense claim.
permalinkparent
[–]DeuxBoy 186 points 11 hours ago
You are correct. Zimmerman would most likely be granted immunity.

Preeeeetty sure that's bullshit.  I'd like to see a cite other than "a Florida law", since that's not how criminal trials work at all, but I also wouldn't put it past Florida lawmakers to not understand the laws they're writing.

You don't "succeed" a self-defense claim.  The jury finds that the state proved your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, and thus finds you guilty, or they find that the state didn't prove your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, and finds you not guilty.  They don't enter explanations into the record, and a not guilty finding where you claimed self defense doesn't mean the jury finds that you acted in self defense, and doesn't mean that a jury can't find in a later trial that you wrongfully killed that kid by a preponderance of the evidence.
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Brentai

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Re: License to Go Plan Recreational Murders
« Reply #225 on: July 14, 2013, 05:58:35 AM »

The entire purpose of the civil suit system is to pick up where the criminal trial system fails, but like TA said that only matters if the lawmakers themselves understand the law.
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Thad

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Re: License to Go Plan Recreational Murders
« Reply #226 on: July 14, 2013, 08:19:32 AM »

Blog post: Robert Zimmerman versus George Zimmerman.

Mark Evanier has a couple good posts on the subject; I've little to add at the moment beyond overwhelming cynicism.  (Sample: Zimmerman WAS innocent under Florida law because he did exactly what the law was designed to protect.)

Not ready to take the rag away from my face.
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Mongrel

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Re: License to Go Plan Recreational Murders
« Reply #227 on: July 14, 2013, 08:54:44 AM »

Interestingly, up here even the totally conservative rag paper is describing it as "Trayvon's killer aquitted" (the headline they ran is "NOT GUILTY" but the subtitle pretty well shows that even they're playing it as a miscarriage of justice).
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DestyNova

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Re: License to Go Plan Recreational Murders
« Reply #228 on: July 14, 2013, 05:52:49 PM »

Getting gun back.

"All those hateful eyes! I had to put them out because I was afraid of my life! Look! I have them right here in my hands so you can look into them and see the hate!"
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Bal

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Re: License to Go Plan Recreational Murders
« Reply #229 on: July 14, 2013, 05:56:18 PM »

Sometimes you wish it was the 60's so civil rights violation charges could be made federally.
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Brentai

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Re: License to Go Plan Recreational Murders
« Reply #230 on: July 14, 2013, 05:59:03 PM »

Quote
George Zimmerman will get his gun back now that he has been cleared of murder and his lawyer said today that Zimmerman needs the weapon "even more" than before.

No he doesn't, he needs to not fucking go around aggravating any more situa...

Quote
He indicated that Zimmerman may file suits against others, however.

"There are a number of events that happened during this case and the way certain people handled it that we may need to hold responsible. We'll see," O'Mara said.

Oookay or maybe he should just go ahead and write out what he wants on his headstone.
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R^2

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Re: License to Go Plan Recreational Murders
« Reply #231 on: July 15, 2013, 02:14:15 AM »

Wait wait wait. Zimmerman himself is worried about gun-toting vigilantes out for justice? Really?
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Büge

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Re: License to Go Plan Recreational Murders
« Reply #232 on: July 15, 2013, 03:13:05 AM »

Well, yeah. Now that he's been proven how effective Stand Your Ground has been as a defense, some vengeance-seeker could unload a magnum into him and claim they were afraid he was going to attack them.
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Ted Belmont

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Re: License to Go Plan Recreational Murders
« Reply #233 on: July 15, 2013, 03:36:47 AM »

If said vengeance-seeker is white, maybe.
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Brentai

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Re: License to Go Plan Recreational Murders
« Reply #234 on: July 15, 2013, 04:20:38 AM »

SYG is a red herring.  It never got used in this case.
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Classic

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Re: License to Go Plan Recreational Murders
« Reply #235 on: July 15, 2013, 04:38:43 AM »

So, in fact, the way the law is written was already so heinously racist in its implementation that all the SYG laws might have done is skip the trial?
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Ted Belmont

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Re: License to Go Plan Recreational Murders
« Reply #236 on: July 15, 2013, 04:41:28 AM »

SYG is a red herring.  It never got used in this case.

Yes and no. It wasn't used by his defense to get the charges dismissed, but it was used in the instructions to the jury:

Quote
If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.(emphasis mine)
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Brentai

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Re: License to Go Plan Recreational Murders
« Reply #237 on: July 15, 2013, 05:59:26 AM »

Which ought not be relevant, because George Zimmerman was both engaged in an unlawful activity and in a place where he had no right to be.
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Mongrel

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Re: License to Go Plan Recreational Murders
« Reply #238 on: July 15, 2013, 08:46:40 AM »

Quote
if Martin was alive, I guarantee you Zimmerman goes to jail for something.

This is probably the truest statement on the subject I've heard all week.
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Büge

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