Topic: Ins and outs of a MegaMan X style platformer? (Read 2656 times)

Amuro Ray · « **on:** May 04, 2011, 10:07:19 AM »

So I was wondering what the ins and outs of a MegaMan X style platformer are. What should I do, or not do. Add, or not add, when making a game like this.

Also, is game maker a good choice to use? Or should I use something else?

LaserBeing · « **Reply #1 on:** May 04, 2011, 03:27:56 PM »

First of all, get rid of the X-buster charge mechanic. In the actual Megaman games it's annoying to use, makes an annoying noise, and just creates problems in other aspects of the game design. If you absolutely must have a charge weapon, at least make it auto-charge whenever you're not shooting, like in the Game Boy MMX games. I hate having to hold down one button 90% of the time while trying to do jumps and stuff (not to mention the fact that if you're doing this for PC, most keyboards can only recognise about three keypresses at once).

With that gripe out of the way, the most important thing is probably just to always keep in mind the issues that Megaman games have by their very nature. They're kind of like RPGs in the sense that their difficulty curves are basically backwards. The game starts off difficult and then gets progressively easier and easier, until there's a huge difficulty spike once you hit the Wily/Sigma Stages. They've tried different ways of getting around it; MM3 had the Doc Robot stages, MMX6 had the bosses get more powerful over time, etc.

One other peeve of mine is that the system of weapon energy and extra lives is set up in such a way that it's often better to kill yourself and continue from a game over, rather than struggle through a stage with a disadvantage. I personally think that's terrible design. This was probably the main reason X5 had that weird time limit system, and the Zero games do weird things with continue penalties as well; just to stop you from dropping yourself down a pit when you run out of Rush Jet.

It'd be real cool to have the various weapons have more utility within the stages themselves, rather than just being there to exploit a boss's weakness. Stuff like throwing blocks around with Gutsman's power, or grabbing items with Boomer Kuwanger's boomerang. In a perfect world, each weapon would interact with many stage elements in cool and intuitive ways.

Also, with X they started doing neat things with stage order having consequences. Like Flame Mammoth's stage getting frozen after you beat Chill Penguin, or flooding Sting Chameleon's jungle by defeating Launch Octopus. I'd like to see more of that sort of thing.

Smiler · « **Reply #2 on:** May 04, 2011, 03:33:09 PM »

What exactly are you planning on doing? Are you going to make a game just like megaman (pick a stage, beat stage, get powerup from boss, rinse repeat), or are you asking about making a game with like the same sort of action and gameplay?

Thad · « **Reply #3 on:** May 04, 2011, 03:58:35 PM »

...LokiStormbringer is SoraCross, isn't he.

Smiler · « **Reply #4 on:** May 04, 2011, 04:17:37 PM »

Don't jinx it man.

Classic · « **Reply #5 on:** May 04, 2011, 04:33:53 PM »

Even if it were, it's plausible he's in a better place now.

The original MMX also tried to experiment further with the idea that the skills a stage taught were worthy of practicing beyond what was necessary to overcome a boss. This is why there are lots of hidden goodies in each stage, stage revisits are permitted, and charged shots will sometimes have a mobility augmenting power.

No advice on how to deal with wonky difficulty curves though.

Niku · « **Reply #6 on:** May 04, 2011, 05:01:53 PM »

Quote from: Thad on May 04, 2011, 03:58:35 PM

...LokiStormbringer is SoraCross, isn't he.

Lottel · « **Reply #7 on:** May 04, 2011, 06:17:06 PM »

WHY DOES EVERY NEW PERSON GET THE SAME TREATMENT OF "OH HELLO. HOW'RE- You're SoraCross, aren't you?"
COME ON.

Classic · « **Reply #8 on:** May 04, 2011, 07:33:14 PM »

No. Some of them are supposed to be envy or eloH

Thad · « **Reply #9 on:** May 04, 2011, 09:35:47 PM »

Quote from: Lottel on May 04, 2011, 06:17:06 PM

WHY DOES EVERY NEW PERSON GET THE SAME TREATMENT OF "OH HELLO. HOW'RE- You're SoraCross, aren't you?"
COME ON.

You're right. It's probably some other guy with a goofy mixed-caps name who likes to make knockoff Nintendo games, lives in Washington, uses Comcast, registered his account right after the last time SoraCross got banned, and is obviously SoraCross.

Classic · « **Reply #10 on:** May 04, 2011, 09:46:31 PM »

I feel like the biggest difference between MegaMan and X was that platforming became a little more forgiving. The difficult challenges were gateways to awesome superpowers rather than to essential battles.

That said, sigma is always balls hard.

EDIT:
Also my balls are objectively harder than anything else.

Amuro Ray · « **Reply #11 on:** May 05, 2011, 02:15:06 PM »

I plan on making it level based, and not a choose your own level kinda thing.
Would grinding be a good idea? Like in Sonic Advance?

Classic · « **Reply #12 on:** May 05, 2011, 02:36:42 PM »

Being able to choose the order in which you attempt challenges is critical to MMX.

Friday · « **Reply #13 on:** May 05, 2011, 02:57:41 PM »

Grinding is never a good idea. If you include RPG elements, make sure the difficulty curves naturally with player level.

Classic · « **Reply #14 on:** May 05, 2011, 03:04:23 PM »

He's talking about "grinding" in the sense of sliding on a rail, but you're right grinding is never a good idea.

Thad · « **Reply #15 on:** May 05, 2011, 05:23:45 PM »

The charge shot in the original X was balanced much better than in Mega Man 4-8 (where it pretty much broke the series' central conceit by making every boss roughly as easy to kill with the base weapon as his weakness). The key is that the special weapons charged, and yeah, the fact that their charge shots weren't all attacks is part of that.

I also liked how the levels changed according to the order you beat them, which the rest of the series underused. And again, choosing your order is integral to this design element.

Agree that holding a button down all the time is a little silly in hindsight (and damn near impossible around a right stick, which is presumably why the PS2 games had an autocharge), but should probably be kept for special weapons inasmuch as they consume ammo.

Friday · « **Reply #16 on:** May 05, 2011, 05:31:11 PM »

Personally, I've never liked the way Megaman games were designed on a fundamental level. I of course love Megaman, but I am a much bigger fan of, say, Castlevania 3's design.

Classic · « **Reply #17 on:** May 05, 2011, 07:04:01 PM »

I'd considered once how I'd feel if instead of a charged shot, I had a secondary or special shot with the cooldown of a charged shot. I don't remember what I concluded.

LaserBeing · « **Reply #18 on:** May 05, 2011, 07:06:40 PM »

That's the odd thing about Megaman in general. There's a lot about the games that I would generally consider Very Bad Design, but somehow the games manage to be awesome and fun, sometimes not just in spite of the wonky design, but almost because of it. It's perversely satisfying to be confronted with a game that's so openly hostile right from the outset, and gradually become powerful enough to start making bigger and bigger dents in it.

It definitely doesn't hurt that the core gameplay is so solid and the visuals and music are so charming.

Friday · « **Reply #19 on:** May 05, 2011, 07:10:17 PM »

I don't even know if I would call it bad design (though some parts are pretty bad, indisputably) as much as I just don't like it. It just seems... sort of gimmicky, I guess? I've always had trouble putting to words exactly what I don't like about Megaman design. But as long as the majority of the games continue to be a blast to play, I don't really care that it doesn't appeal to me that way.

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Author Topic: Ins and outs of a MegaMan X style platformer? (Read 2656 times)