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[LaserBeing]

Isn't there already a ZELDA SUX thread? Or was that on the other board?

[Classic]

I'm still not sure why the sail was in Link's inventory instead of just being held by the Kind of Red Lions. If I could have fired a bomb cannon/used the telescope while the ship was moving along at a reasonable pace, I don't think I would have been quite as bored/frustrated with many of the sea sections.

That said, I think I visited every island in that game, and liked it enough to snag about half of the "easy" figurines.

EDIT: In between writing this and getting a sandwich, this occurred:

Yeah, it was stupid how you couldn't have any other items equipped when the sail was out. God, that was probably my least favorite part.

Sorry!

[Norondor]

I scarcely remember fighting anything on the boat, except cannon fights and sometimes killing those giant octopi. I at least don't remember anything super objectionable.

Getting the teleport thing in WW definitely makes it more bearable, i will not deny, and probably a lot of my good feelings for the game stem from the fact that puppet ganon + last battle basically made me stupid for the game forever.

Really, if you want to criticize anything about the game, it might as well be the forced stealth section, which, to the best of my knowledge, no one has to date been executed for.

[Classic]

Actually, WW the forced stealth section made me feel least offended. Of all stealth sections in Zelda anyhow .

But seriously:

puppet ganon + last battle basically made me stupid for the game forever.

My exposure to modern Zelda is limited, but that may have been my favorite boss/climactic battle sequence. Ever.

[Thad]

Dungeons are essentially built around their contained item now.  You might as well start calling them the Bow Temple, the Hookshot Temple, the Boomerang Temple...

This has been the case since the SNES at least, and possibly even Zelda 2.

But it's gotten progressively worse each time.

It seems that not bothering with designing and modeling a giant useless mostly-empty overworld that, and fuck you if you try to fight me on this point, is exactly as boring and stupid and pointless as a giant ocean you have to sail around, allowed them to focus on making the game look and play better than any previous nintendo-headed effort in the series. What. A. Concept.

Yeah really, we havn't had an Overworld worth exploring since Link to the Past.

LttP is pretty much unfuckingbeatable in terms of overworld (and, for my money, everything else).  I actually liked exploring in TP, but then I found everything I could at the time and then they made me fish more and I said fuck this and I haven't played it in like a year.

[Saturn]

the dumbtop in TP could have been made more useful by simply making it NOT SLOW DOWN TO A FUCKING CRAWL after 6 feet.

Also the wolf sections were boring. (and midna's yawning gets annoying real fast)

[Norondor]

Dungeons are essentially built around their contained item now.  You might as well start calling them the Bow Temple, the Hookshot Temple, the Boomerang Temple...

This has been the case since the SNES at least, and possibly even Zelda 2.

But it's gotten progressively worse each time.

... which is more or less the point of what i said.

Though the Oracle games and WW have dungeon tools that are often useful for other things (the N64 games have "sometimes" useful tools, and TP tools are "never" useful -- which to me is the real distinction).

[Saturn]

Din's fire was needed what, twice ever?

(more in master quest, but master quest made the fucking BOMBCHUS useful)

[Norondor]

... it's not ever needed. You just get it incidentally, like bombchus.

[Thad]

Yeah.  In LttP, there were items that were unnecessary to complete the game that were nonetheless pretty useful (Boomerang, Magic Powder, Bombos Medallion, Cape, Cane of Byrna, net and 3 of the bottles were all unnecessary, IIRC).

[AČ]

I'm almost positive that there was some place that required the cape.

[Classic]

They were completely unnecessary.

Then again, none of the items seemed too McGuffin-y, they all had some (semi-)viable in and out of combat applications above and beyond their dungeon's scope and were reused later. Then again, two of the dungeon items were armor/shield upgrades. Maybe that should be taken into consideration.

I'm almost positive that there was some place that required the cape.

IIRC: There is a place, but it's not in a main dungeon. Though I could be wrong. It has been a while.

[Zaratustra]

You used the cape to get a piece of heart. And I think it made a castle or two easier.

Boomerang is needed to activate a couple of switch orbs on Ganon's Tower, no?

[Norondor]

hey um since when am i a moderator

UH BUT ANYWAY my point was... you can't really complain about that being a dungeon item. and having items you don't need to progress but that are cool anyway is hardly anything to complain about.

[Detonator]

hey um since when am i a moderator

Posts:   777

Maybe you have all 7 fever

Don't post ever again or you might lose it.

[Classic]

I like items. I like items more when they're useful for more than one awesome boss fight.
I guess my tastes really have no rhyme or reason.

[Saturn]

... it's not ever needed. You just get it incidentally, like bombchus.

i could have sworn you used it to get into the shadow temple, then again inside to burn some spiked wall things.

[Thad]

and having items you don't need to progress but that are cool anyway is hardly anything to complain about.

Who's complaining?

[Brentai]

Din's Fire was never necessary, but it made some puzzles much easier.

[Classic]

So what are our favorite zelda items/utilities? What niches do they fill, and why have they been awesome?
Even as early as LttP, we've had what amounted to gimmick items. I'd argue that the first item you get, the lamp, is a gimmick item. Necessary, and torch lighting puzzles continue to be a staple, but what's its combat application? Is it more than nil? I honestly don't remember.
Bombs and Arrows (and bomb-arrows? ) remain staples for their puzzle solving efficacy and combat utility. Though I'm not sure how the shift from 2 to 3D effects their usefulness.
But what else?
Heavy lifting items are basically a guarantee and so is some variant on the hook shot. Both have reasonable and intuitive puzzle and combat uses.

Can we agree that these are the Zelda game basics, and that they're strong because they have a reasonable amount of irreplacable uses?