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[patito]

Oh , that's actually the same article that was on kotaku. The problem with it though is that the guy has an obsession with teh first zelda and that's not a good thing.

[Brentai]

I agree with some of the points of the thing but not the overall theme of "I want to have to bomb every wall again" is a little, uh.

He also gives the impression that he hasn't actually played Twilight Princess, and is assuming that it must be almost-but-not-quite like Skyward Sword.  Which is not true; TP has a great combatty engine and plenty of bullshit little crannies to explore if that's what you're into, it's just weighed down by atrocious scenario/level design and the fact that most of those crannies house absolutely fucking useless rupees.

But yeah if you're just coming off of SS and almost half-cockedly blurbed about your impressions of it without taking the time to view things from another angle (*cough*) then it's fair to complain that the Zelda series, by which we just mean the latest game, has no world to explore.  SS basically does not have an overworld.  It has a big empty hub and three big outdoor dungeons.  And yeah, that's a problem, because the last two conversations I've had with friends asking if they should pick up the game is this:

Brentai-kun Brentai-kun should I buy Skyward Sword?
Why do you want Skyward Sword, little Bridget?
Because it's a Zelda game and I love Zelda games!
And why do you love Zelda games, little Bridget?
Because I love exploring the world and finding things!
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
What?
No.  No you should not buy Skyward Sword.
Oh.  :(
...
...
...
Brentai-kun would you like to caress my
YES.

And then we spend the next two hours cleaning up and talking about how maybe, if we could just take TP's focus on frequent but quickly resolved battles, somehow translate LttP's purposefully designed yet breathing overworld to 3D, come up with something to find in secret areas that are less fucking pointless than rupees, and maybe declare at least a temporary ban on all minigames and fetch quests, then yeah maybe we could whip up something that will make this guy happy AND still be fun to play without a strategy guide.



For some reason the Comic Shop Guy emoticon translates to Brian Griffin now.  I started to change my post but on reflection decided that it's just fine the way it is.

[Lottel]

No fetch quests?!
If I scoffed any harder, I'd sprain something.

Granted, I've not played any console Zelda since MM so I don't know how it's gotten consolewise, but I don't think they're getting any worse/better. Maybe you just notice them more because the overworld's dull and you're just running back and forth with nothing interesting in between? Or have they lost the charm and humor some of the earlier games had when it came to them? Are they not totally optional fetch quests?

I've relaxed my scoffing pending the answers, but am stretching to renew with gusto just in case.

[Brentai]

They don't need to get any worse.  They were obnoxious back in OoT.

BUT Skyward Sword not only devolves most NPCs into quest givers (complete with icon over their heads) but also institutes its own kind of fetch quest currency.  Literally the point of most of the NPC chores is to increase the number of tokens you have for doing NPC chores.

[Ted Belmont]

No Zelda game was more obnoxious with its fetch quests than Minish Cap; although at least most of them were optional.

[Mothra]

Unfortunately yes.

Never more damning proof that no amount of charm can cover up unrelenting bullshittery.

[Bongo Bill]

The most recently released Zelda game is always the one that people like the least. This is the pattern I have observed without fail since Majora's Mask came out. Frankly, it gets a bit old. But maybe they just see something I don't, considering I like all of them (except Phantom Hourglass, which was just too easy).

Though if you want more games like Zelda 1, Dark Souls is, like, right over there.

[Thad]

The most recently released Zelda game is always the one that people like the least. This is the pattern I have observed without fail since Majora's Mask came out. Frankly, it gets a bit old.

That's part of it.  Hipsters gonna hip.

But fans of the original topdown style have had plenty of valid criticisms of the series from OoT onward, and no they don't all come down to "It's not the same game as before."  (Indeed, many of the complaints boil down to "They keep repeating the same shit over and over", which is just the opposite problem regardless of where the game sticks the camera.)

OoT had a ridiculously slow text crawl, a flawed combat system, some really tedious levels, and upped the collection quests.  Wind Waker had a world so empty that you could make a sandwich while you waited to travel from one location to another.  TP finally cranked the mandatory minigames past my point of tolerance, and that's the last one I played.

Which isn't to say that they're bad games!  And each of those had something I quite liked about it, too.  But at this point I feel like I'd rather replay LttP for the umpteenth time than try a new Zelda game.

Though if you want more games like Zelda 1, Dark Souls is, like, right over there.

I want something more like LttP, but if Dark Souls gets a PC port I'll be sure and read up on it.

[Brentai]

TP finally cranked the mandatory minigames past my point of tolerance

What's hilarious is that you seemed to stop playing right before the snowboarding minigame.

Yes, seriously.

The most recently released Zelda game is always the one that people like the least.

1. The most recently released Zelda game is always the most talked about.
2. If the series on a whole is on a gradual decline, then yes, the most recent game probably is the worst.
3. With the exception of the whiner who wrote that last article, reactions to Skyward Sword tend to be either orgasmic or "It wasn't as bad as [OoT|WW|TP]."

[Classic]

Wind Waker had a world so empty that you could make a sandwich while you waited to travel from one location to another.

I kind of got the impression that it would've benefited a lot from being able to plot out safe fast travel routes.
Each map locale did have something kind of neat to explore. A little encounter with some monsters that dropped some nice collectibles and a parcel of rupees to speed up whatever grindy bullshit you might have been doing.

Since I'd been steadily and accidentally collecting triforce maps and pieces the open explore-a-thon didn't get to me.

Though, I admit it was probably a big mistake.

[Ted Belmont]

The Legend of Zelda Skyward Sword Cake Animated

I know "omg it's a videogame cake" is straying dangerously close to Kotaku territory, but HOLY CARP.

[Envy]

If you guys really want something more zelda 1 like, there is a roguelike that play's a-lot like Zelda coming out.
Delver's Drop Kickstarter - Game Trailer

[Niku]

Apparently Link Between Worlds won't have new puzzle items in dungeons.  Instead, you buy (or rent?) most of the items from a shop for rupees, letting you pick which dungeons you want to go to based on what you decide to buy.  Presumably there's something to keep you from just grinding out every single item right from the start, but who knows?  It could be an interesting change for the flow of the game, or could fundamentally not change much at all.

[Zaratustra]

The problem with money-driven mechanics in games is that they not just encourage grinding, they practically put up a sign saying THIS WOULD BE SO MUCH EASIER IF YOU DIDN'T MIND CUTTING SHRUBS FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS.

[Beat Bandit]

It seemed (from the same video everyone saw, to me, personally) that it would be a system where you can rent one item for a very small amount, then go do a dungeon that presumably offers a final reward at the end that secures you at least the purchase of that item if no other rewards.

So basically same as the old games only you use the dungeon item for the path leading to the dungeon, too.

[Bongo Bill]

My guess is it's going to be something like this:

It'll be possible to go through the game "normally," clearing the dungeons in such an order that no dungeon relies on any item except the ones in the previous dungeons and its own item. Then you can also rent dungeon items so that you can clear the dungeons in any order you want (since you can at least access them all in any order). Effectively it's sanctioned sequence breaking.

Speedruns of this game are going to be nuts if I'm right.

[Catloaf]

Speedruns of this game are going to be nuts if I'm right.

Yeah, seeing as I beat the game 99% my first run in two days, ridiculous speedruns are quite inevitable.

In a stupid, slightly related note, the only item I missed was the heart piece from racing across the map in 65 seconds.

I actually think I would've liked to have seen one or two more items found in dungeons.  Or at least dungeons having the non-rented version of items--nope!  The only way to have get non-rented, upgradable via an adorable alternative to skulltula tokens, items is to buy them.

Final negative points: I wish the L and R button functions were switched.  I just like having a more action oriented R button and a more defensive oriented L button function, as opposed to the shield/pegasus boots mapping they went with. And the effort needed to upgrade the bug-net is not at all proportional/worth it.

But other than those few things, the game really is great.

[Beat Bandit]

Final negative points: I wish the L and R button functions were switched.  I just like having a more action oriented R button and a more defensive oriented L button function, as opposed to the shield/pegasus boots mapping they went with. And the effort needed to upgrade the bug-net is not at all proportional/worth it.

The best Zelda games have always been the ones where every button was 'use item' and you got to assign each item.

[François]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOq4IiuRMWk#t=72

so liu bei, kenshiro and link walk into a bar

[Brentai]

It's like this game was tailor-made especially for me.

And I still don't care.