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Author Topic: Primary Wars  (Read 43940 times)

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Brentai

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #300 on: May 09, 2008, 02:38:52 PM »

Sooooo... the white and uneducated.

(Post loses context thanks to SoraCross's pointless nonsequitor.)
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Arc

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #301 on: May 09, 2008, 02:53:48 PM »

Or more to the point, uneducated whites.

:blahblahblah:
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Thad

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #302 on: May 09, 2008, 02:59:03 PM »

It may be the greatest indicator of who Hillary's supporters are.

...You just responded to a video that makes a logically spurious comparison between Obama and Hitler with a logically spurious comparison between the Clinton supporter who made it and Clinton supporters in general.

SoraCross's pointless non sequitur

Moved.
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Mongrel

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #303 on: May 09, 2008, 04:27:49 PM »

Cheezy metal theme music combined with a copious amount of misspelled words.

Hm.

 ::D:
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SCD

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Re: Tertiary Wars
« Reply #304 on: May 09, 2008, 04:28:01 PM »

Arc,

Regarding the Tribal lands of Pakistan, I almost posted 300 words of why such an action would be folly, from the tactical side in terms of local confrontations, the Operational side, from the diminishing affect of the Central Asia Theater in all Pashtun held lands, to the Strategic side of the house Involving further allied operations and success of both fronts - Disagreeing in the strongest possible terms to any voice that may say "invade the frontier provinces".   

This thread is about the primaries however, and I will refrain unless you want to talk about it elsewhere. 

I am still happy now that it is looking like Obama vs McCain, saber-rattling aside.  I plan to bring popcorn.
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Thad

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #305 on: May 09, 2008, 04:41:11 PM »

:popcorn:

I don't know if the Pakistan conversation could sustain its own thread or if it would be better here, but I'd be happy to discuss it.

If you want to give me a headstart, give a glance at my previous comments on the subject.

(Also, while searching for the post, I noticed that you played the "wait and see" game a year ago.  I'm going to say points off there.)
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SCD

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #306 on: May 09, 2008, 06:37:49 PM »

The longterm solution for Pakistan is democratic, and is going on right now in the NWFP, reference Arc's article. 

It's the first time they have had a provincial government that wasn't a result of the voters not caring (the pro-mushy party gets elected), or after that when the masses become slaves to the mullahs words.  They've now elected a less-horrible party.  In provincial politics, this is pretty fast development, and for a major region of Taliban activity, incredible.  In fact, a naturally-occurring proof of Democracy, Rule of Law, and Pushtu in the same sentence, let alone the same chunk of land is the best thing that could happen to the war in Afghanistan.  It would be a shame to ruin it by emboldening those who would oppose it in the name of God, instead of the people. 

Yes, I use "wait and see" a lot with conflicts. This is because the asymmetric affair take a lot more time to hash out, then some silly war of boundary lines.  Since I talked about Afghanistan last, things have seemed more dire, despite a surged increase of Afghan Soldiers.  Still, as this forgotten war is not talked about in most media in any great depth that allows a comprehensive picture of what goes on in English, there's a lot we are missing. 

In Iraq though, I am emboldened by my wait-and-see policy.  Since that time we talked about the subject, we have a government who is interested in concentrating all combat arms into the hands of sworn government officers and soldiers.  This is not happening in Afghanistan.  The government is now learning from the lessons of Lebanon before the bad shit actually started happening (as of a couple days ago).  Their results are much less than ideal, but this was an Iraqi operation.  Furthermore, they are much less American puppets, especially so on the issue of Iran.  That is the most pleasing thing I have read in the recent months so far, and little different from what we talked about before.  Will this work out in the end?  I can't tell you, nor will I hazard a guess.  When should this "See" bit happened?  I forget the date I told you in private, Thad, a couple months back.  But if you can find it, I will still stand by it. 

Between the reinforcements in Kandahar province from the Americans, plus the UAE increase in their troops in Afg, and the French (of all people!) the government of Canada decided to keep into Afghanistan, under less optimistic conditions than Iraq right now, up until 2011:  You know, the year where we start going everywhere on jetpack and having all of our meals in pill form. 

One other thing about Pakistan on the legality front:  Multiple nations in Afg including my own have ratified compulsory ICJ jurisdiction.  USA would be putting its allies in a tough spot if they attacked a sovereign nation in the same Operational theater as these allies support it in. 

Also, seeing as I'm derailing all political threads with war-talk, perhaps we should split this.. you know.. into something like "Secondary Wars"..  Or "Tertiary Wars". 
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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #307 on: May 11, 2008, 03:05:31 PM »

You know, every few days I keep forgetting that Barack and Hillary are technically part of the same party.

This is a bad thing, right?
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Kazz

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #308 on: May 11, 2008, 03:39:21 PM »

Considering they are competing for the Democratic nomination, and have been for over a year now, yeah, that's something you ought to remember.
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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #309 on: May 11, 2008, 04:05:32 PM »

I meant more in the sense that themselves and the media have a huge hardon for beating the shit out of each other, that people are forgetting that we're not at the presidental race yet. We're still picking who gets to run.
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Kazz

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #310 on: May 11, 2008, 07:31:08 PM »

That might be true if not for the person named "McCain," who has received at least a little bit of attention.
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Mongrel

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #311 on: May 11, 2008, 07:41:14 PM »

Well, at least up here, all the media have been proclaiming O-man as the presumptive candidate for several days (maybe a week) now.
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Arc

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #312 on: May 11, 2008, 07:42:08 PM »

:ohmy: McWhat in the what now?
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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #313 on: May 11, 2008, 08:23:57 PM »

:ohmy: McWhat in the what now?

I stole my brother's cell phone and called 12 of his high school friends. I asked them all who's running for President

8 answered: Hillary & Obama
2 Answered: Obama and someone else
1 Answered: "Some black woman and a white guy"
And only one answered McCain and either Hillary or Obama
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Kazz

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #314 on: May 11, 2008, 08:31:23 PM »

So the "people" you referred to above are high school students?

Did you score any dank bud?
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Mongrel

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #315 on: May 11, 2008, 08:39:30 PM »

:ohmy: McWhat in the what now?

I stole my brother's cell phone and called 12 of his high school friends. I asked them all who's running for President

8 answered: Hillary & Obama
2 Answered: Obama and someone else
1 Answered: "Some black woman and a white guy"
And only one answered McCain and either Hillary or Obama

:glee:

Well, I suppose technically #2 is correct...
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Thad

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #316 on: May 11, 2008, 09:13:53 PM »

So's #1.  Technically.  It's true, it's just not the full picture.

FYI, the narrative down here's changed too; the press is now taking it from the angle of "How can Clinton bow out gracefully?"  Bernstein has a pretty good piece where he lays out the possible outcomes.

I wouldn't have bought the idea of Clinton as Obama's running mate two months ago, but I think the recent acrimony has actually IMPROVED her odds.  It eliminates the problem of pro-Clinton people who would vote for McCain rather than Obama, and also goes a long way to creating a picture of the Democrats as a unified front instead of a bunch of squabbling children, which is something the party desperately needs.  And I don't claim to speak for ALL the "I won't vote for Clinton under any circumstance" crowd, but when I've said that, I always meant I wouldn't vote for her at the TOP of a ticket; I'd be willing to vote for her at the bottom of one.

The question is whether she's as divisive and unpalatable as I've always seen her.  I would have thought that the blue-collar whites voting for her were McCain's natural constituency and wouldn't be a big Democratic demographic in the fall, but the economy and the war ARE really going to hurt the Republicans.

I really don't know.

But I DO think Willie Brown's comment at the end of the article is dead-on: she's going to need to apologize for that "hard-working Americans, white Americans" line right the fuck now.
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Kazz

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #317 on: May 11, 2008, 09:24:49 PM »

she's going to need to apologize for that "hard-working Americans, white Americans" line right the fuck now.

Here's some Devil's Advocacy on my part, and you probably already know where I'm headed with this, but it has always bugged me that the line above is considered inflammatory, but "hard-working Americans, black Americans" would be seen as progressive, even endearing.

I'd even consider starting a thread on the subject, but I doubt we'd further the discourse in any meaningful fashion.

PS, regarding my early Pyoko/#finalfight behavior: If you read over my old stuff, I tend to demand attention by any means necessary, not matter how idiotic I sound.  I'm a bit embarrassed of this, but I was immature at the time.  Now, of course, I am a dignified horsevagina.
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Thad

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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #318 on: May 11, 2008, 09:45:25 PM »

Here's some Devil's Advocacy on my part, and you probably already know where I'm headed with this, but it has always bugged me that the line above is considered inflammatory, but "hard-working Americans, black Americans" would be seen as progressive, even endearing.

The problem with this logic is that the deck is stacked against minorities.  More to the point, it's stacked against the poor, of ANY race, and that's something that's vitally important for this nation to recognize: a poor white man and a poor black man have more in common than a poor white man and a rich white man.

BUT, minorities are disproportionately poor, and as such ARE at a disadvantage, so saying "hard-working Americans, black Americans" would NOT be logically equivalent to saying "hard-working Americans, white Americans" (and I'd work "hard-working immigrants" in as especially relevant, but that seems like an unpopular demographic to recognize right now).

That said, I wouldn't say either.  If I were running for office, I would do exactly what I did in paragraph one, and emphasize that working-class people are working-class people and their race, while related, is not as important a distinction as their class.
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Re: Primary Wars
« Reply #319 on: May 11, 2008, 10:46:26 PM »

So the "people" you referred to above are high school students?

Did you score any dank bud?

?????
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