Brontoforumus Archive
Discussion Boards => Thaddeus Boyd's Panel of Death => Topic started by: Thad on December 08, 2010, 02:27:56 PM
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Hey, a new thread for general complaints about Congress not doing stuff.
Anyway: WaPo (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/08/AR2010120804596.html): In political gamble, Reid seeks votes that are sure to fail.
My first instinct is to applaud Reid for actually daring Republicans to filibuster popular legislation and showing more spine than Obama has this week.
But then I remember the last time he did this, when he did the "You're going to filibuster? Fine! We'll stay here all night!" stunt, and then...went back to business as usual the next day.
Now, if he KEEPS DOING THIS, that'll be worthy of applause. But if it's a one-time deal, fuck'im.
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A thread starring Tim Roth and Tupac Shakur
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Supercalifragilistic-expialawacky (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlUqxyT6DIw#)
HONK HONK BEEP BEEP GOVERNMENT GRIDLOCK
i am very sorry but i felt this HAD to be posted
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NYT gives the exact headline Reid was going for: Republicans Block US Health Aid for 9/11 Workers (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/10/nyregion/10health.html?_r=1).
It's the NYT, of course, but Newsday (http://www.newsday.com/long-island/politics/gop-senators-block-9-11-health-bill-1.2529933) and even the Murdoch-owned New York Post (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/gop_set_to_fili_bust_health_aid_Y5WcUWgZZixTb3Jo9sNx4M) (which presumably is off-message because of that whole "New York" thing) have similar headlines.
I'm still not at all optimistic that this will have any long-term impact. I can't remember the last time a Democrat put up a campaign ad with spooky music and lists of popular things his opponent voted against.
So the Dems score some temporary political points, nothing gets done, and at the end of the day the victims are the 9/11 first responders. Sounds about right.
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I'm still not at all optimistic that this will have any long-term impact. I can't remember the last time a Democrat put up a campaign ad with spooky music and lists of popular things his opponent voted against.
actually Jerry Brown was doing it a ton, and notably, he won. California may not be 100% doomed!
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On the minus side, Jerry Brown won.
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It's official. We're in some kind of time warp where we will spend all of eternity being punished for the sins of our fathers.
California Uber Alles (Dead Kennedys) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quLqEu4mUOU#)
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Anyone else find it difficult to explain to people the irony that the people who think government is wasteful and inefficient are always the ones who make it wasteful and inefficient? Sometimes it just makes me want to follow Superman's lead in Mongrel's signature.
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I'm still not at all optimistic that this will have any long-term impact. I can't remember the last time a Democrat put up a campaign ad with spooky music and lists of popular things his opponent voted against.
actually Jerry Brown was doing it a ton, and notably, he won. California may not be 100% doomed!
California's like Texas, though; it's almost a country unto itself.
Anyone else find it difficult to explain to people the irony that the people who think government is wasteful and inefficient are always the ones who make it wasteful and inefficient?
I think the quote is "Republicans are people who say that government is useless, and then set out to prove it." Something like that, anyway.
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It's official. We're in some kind of time warp
Well, we did do a jump to the left...
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But then the whole senate just took a step to the ri-i-i-i-i-ight...
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Seeing a lot of headlines about the 9/11 first responder healthcare bill passing, most of which don't mention that they had to cut the funding by a THIRD to get the Republicans onboard.
Another victory for bipartisanship!
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Globe article suggests Obama is actually doing quite well (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/konrad-yakabuski/obama-finding-a-way-through-the-legislative-gridlock/article1847871/)
This isn't just the globe. I've seen this view reflected in more than a few papers outside the US.
We've been howling about Obama's concessions, but on the other hand there's a cynical concession that that was probably the only way anything would have been passed barring all-out war on the floor of the Houses (leaving aside the fact that some people want that). I'll be the first to admit that we represent a certain demographic here, so it's easy to get trapped in the echo chamber. I'm wondering if the international coverage hasn't inadvertently touched on the truth.
Now, I don't think that Obama did the best he could. He should have tried to negotiate SOMETHING, but for a very short time it LOOKS like he's racked up a mighty line of successes. Certainly, quantity does NOT equal quality and far to much was given up just to pass something (this is becoming an Obama hallmark).
But what if this actually works to his advantage? It's possible that in agreeing with him so frequently and so fast, the GOP crowd has kicked the supports out from under themselves. If Obama finds the spine for a real fight in the future, he can point out that he's cooperated for great effect - and so has the GOP - already, putting the heat on the GOP. Of course, if the GOP's smart, they can invert that. But they'll be the ones holding up legislation, so it's more difficult at least.
I don't know, I still largely sit with you guys in thinking he gave away the store and should have fought. And I certainly don't think Obama has some kind of foxy plan - if it turns out that this serves him well in the long run, it's more that his character served him well, rather than any plan.
But maybe this will actually work out better than we're crediting. Maybe we won't see the returns until his second term when (hopefully) he's less of a presidential neophyte.
At the very least he's all but assured his reelection, with so many seemingly significant bills he can point to (granted it wasn't going to be much of a fight ANYway, but...) and a supposed ability to work with everyone. That's more than enough meat to feed winning campaign ads.
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If Obama finds the spine for a real fight in the future, he can point out that he's cooperated for great effect - and so has the GOP - already, putting the heat on the GOP. Of course, if the GOP's smart, they can invert that. But they'll be the ones holding up legislation, so it's more difficult at least.
So the summary of this is "Obama will look better in the future if he starts doing what we've wanted him to do since the beginning".
I wouldn't call that a success until, y'know, he actually does it.
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For both the Health Care debate and the Tax Cut debate, Senate Republicans were gearing up to concede that, yes, the Democrats would get what they wanted so they might as well play along. Then Obama said the B word and suddenly they knew they could destroy both.
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I guess a better way of putting it would be: "Yes, Obama sacrificed lots of important things, but it possibly put him in a much better position against his opponents in the long term. This doesn't make up for what he sacrificed, but it might mean that, maybe, just maybe things aren't quite as bad as they look. Do you agree Y/N?".
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oh, you kooky canadians and your "hope."
i would have thought that it would be abundantly clear by now (or by day one!) that Obama sold us all down the river. He never had any intention of doing well.
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I blame those Hopey-Changey posters. We're suckers for posters with bright colours and messages with no more than one syllable.
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Man, I sure do love watching Democrats squander political capital time and time again. It's one of the few things in life of which you can be certain. Republicans will make a huge, effective stink about absolutely nothing, and Democrats will make sure no one finds out about any of their successes like knowing that unemployment is in decline will give everyone AIDS.
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Obama doing well is only a good thing if you agree with the shit that Obama has been pulling to get people to say he's doing well.
You know Rocky Balboa was a democrat because only a democrat would consider standing up to get punched in the face some more a victory.
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Not really going to get into your first remark, because that was just an ass pull example of something Republicans would be shouting from the rooftops had they done it, even if they'd been eating babies on the Senate floor to get it done, but your second remark is spot on, except that people knew Rocky won.
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At least Rocky Balboa stayed in the ring until the fight was over. Obama seems to throw in the compromise towel whenever things look like they're going to be a little difficult.
In the eyes of progressives, Obama is basically in bed with the republicans. He swoops in and compromises even when there isn't room or reason for one, and gives them plenty of time to build up opposition instead of mobilizing his party to get shit done. If he'd put his foot down and gotten his party in line - like Dubya did dozens of times during his presidency, which, by the way is why he was so effective in furthering republican legislation - we would have gotten a health care bill that wasn't more or less a thinly veiled corporate giveaway, the only beneficial parts of which don't even come into play until 2014, and we wouldn't all be eating crow and pretending we're enjoying it every time someone brings up what a huge piece of shit the bill is. If he'd done the strong leader thing a few more times it wouldn't be so easy for the republican media (namely being fox news) to come in and prey on everyone's doubts. We had a 60 seat senate, for fuck's sake. What's the excuse for failing so hard?
if anyone asks 'what could Obama have done differently' - he's the head of the Democratic Party. Pull support, kick people out, whatever. Who was going to go against Obama when he was still everybody's magic negro? They would have grumbled and complained and probably had bitch sessions on the senate floor, but they would have fallen in fucking line if he'd stood up and been a leader and made the right decisions.
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The thing to remember about Barack Obama and every democrat in the Senate is that they each make way more than 250,000 a year.
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if anyone asks 'what could Obama have done differently' - he's the head of the Democratic Party. Pull support, kick people out, whatever.
Spend that half-hour on TV pointing out that Republicans just filibustered healthcare for 9/11 first responders instead of bawling out the people who voted for you...
Don't get me wrong, I think I'm inclined to agree with Mongrel inasmuch as the DADT repeal is something I never expected to happen during Obama's first term. (The middle-class tax cut extension and the first responder health bill, on the other hand, were CERTAIN to pass, and the Dems didn't have to give up ANYTHING on them.) We've seen some successes this past couple of weeks, and they ARE heartening. But he's also right that we could have gotten better deals, and while Obama may benefit politically that doesn't translate to the country benefiting.
Good luck passing the DREAM Act at this point. And that thing's a fucking no-brainer as far as I'm concerned.
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My favorite is Obama taking credit on the Republicans caving on the START treaty. Like there was any goddam chance they'd let that go and give him the opportunity to blame them for restarting the fucking Cold War.
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WSJ (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703886904576031721223090348.html):
WASHINGTON—A Senate deal to fund the federal government until early March doesn't include money to enact the health-care overhaul or stepped up regulation of Wall Street, boosting Republican efforts to curb key elements of President Barack Obama's domestic agenda.
So we're looking at the '95-style budget showdown come March.
The major difference being that Obama isn't Clinton. We'll see how he trumpets his success at passing mediocre healthcare and financial regulation after he lets the Republicans defund them.
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I thought we had a thread for this.
Anyway, whether or not the latest round of bullshit posturing consitutes genuine gridlock, I think this was the quote of the week:
So apparently if it's a legitimate bill, the House has ways to shut that whole thing down.
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chaos reigns (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vmn9asN-8AE#)
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Any harm that may occur to you during the shutdown will still affect your body in real life. Essentially, if you die in the shutdown, you die for real.
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My favorite thing about the shutdown is that it doesn't affect ObamaCare at all but does indefinitely suspend the issue of firearm licenses.
Did... did the GOP just get briar patched?
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http://www.theonion.com/articles/national-funk-congress-deadlocked-on-get-upget-dow,625/ (http://www.theonion.com/articles/national-funk-congress-deadlocked-on-get-upget-dow,625/)
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That one is a classic.
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(http://i.imgur.com/URfAMKP.jpg?2)
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Wait, you mean it's not pronounced identically to "Boner"?
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Bay-ner.
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"It's Boo-kay!"
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I know Gawker links are not good, but...
JUST LOOK AT THIS SHIT.
GOP Congressman makes park ranger apologize for closure of the WWII Memorial. (http://gawker.com/gop-congressman-makes-park-ranger-apologize-for-shutdow-1440577868)
This guy represents the areas of Texas including Lubbock and Abilene.
I am so glad I don't call people like this and Louie Gohmert my representative anymore. I can get out of calling Gohmert my former congressman because I never actually voted for the asshole.
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My favorite thing about the shutdown is that it doesn't affect ObamaCare at all but does indefinitely suspend the issue of firearm licenses.
Did... did the GOP just get briar patched?
Today they showed up in lab coats and speechified about how cruel it is for the Democrats to deny healthcare to people.
I think they're full-on living in Bizarro World.
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Well I mean the post above you is a guy bitching out a ranger for not disobeying him, despite the fact that said ranger was, in fact, disobeying him.
You need a flowchart to figure out all the contradictions in that scenario. Man complains that government is not not doing what he wants despite government not not not doing what he wants.
So GOP complaining the government is simply not doing what GOP wants it to not do is relatively shallow on the stacked negative logic error scale at this point.
(It's just one thing after the next.)
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This would be a very frustrating week to play the, "Is this paragraph from The Onion or an actual news source," game.
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Apparently a Discharge Petition would be one way to force the clean CR bill to the floor, regardless of Boehner and the Tea Party's refusal to budge. There's an internet petition to request that Nancy Pelosi initiate a Discharge Petition going around:
http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/nancy-pelosi-file-a-discharg?source=s.icn.em.cp&r_by=9054012 (http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/nancy-pelosi-file-a-discharg?source=s.icn.em.cp&r_by=9054012)
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If I were a Democratic senator I'd drag this bullshit out for as long as possible and soak up every single minute of it, but I guess that's why it's a good thing I'm not a Democratic senator.
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Discharge petitions don't quite work that way, though. Discharge petitions are to force bills that have been sitting in a subcommittee out into the general pool of bills for voting. A clean continuing resolution would still need to be introduced in subcommittee, then languish there for a period of time without being acted on.
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Well, the article (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/10/8-million-to-1-the-impressive-collateral-damage-ratio-for-the-tea-party-gop/280222/) does say the process is pretty slow, but I'm not sure whether that requirement is being glossed over or not. I think the other suggestion posted there (that the Democrats should just publicly agree to vote to keep Boehner on as speaker through 2014, removing the Tea Party's leverage) would probably be preferable.
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I know Gawker links are not good, but...
JUST LOOK AT THIS SHIT.
GOP Congressman makes park ranger apologize for closure of the WWII Memorial. (http://gawker.com/gop-congressman-makes-park-ranger-apologize-for-shutdow-1440577868)
Well obviously a government shutdown means all government buildings are de-crewed and open for anyone to use.
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http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2013/10/01/federal-shutdown-to-hamper-disease-tracking-clinical-trials/ (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2013/10/01/federal-shutdown-to-hamper-disease-tracking-clinical-trials/)
So, professor, would you say it's time for American citizens to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?
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Scuttlebutt says that House Democrats has found an existing bill (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2013/10/04/dems-move-to-force-republicans-to-reopen-the-government/) that would suffice for the purposes of getting things running again, so we might see a discharge position sooner than later after all.
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Petty, Shortsighted Americans Outraged At Legislature That Represents Them Perfectly
Holy shit
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And other hit: https://twitter.com/kenlowery/status/386186994071511041
"Is Obamacare the worst law ever?" asks a headline of a nation that was once A-OK with owning people as property
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(http://i.imgur.com/cqPRNtF.jpg)
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Okay, unlike "Fuckyo" this secret message was actually legit. And also funny:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/04/politics/weather-service-cryptic-message/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 (http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/04/politics/weather-service-cryptic-message/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)
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Meteorologists at the service's Anchorage office declined Friday afternoon to comment on the possibly cryptic wording, saying they can only speak about weather-related matters.
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Posting here because I'm still banned from posting in Thaddeus Boyd's Panel of death, also it doesn't really fit any particular thread anyway:
Recently I've been going through my late Grandfather's* collection of Harper's Weekly**, and I've noticed an odd insult thrown around that applies to EVERY SINGLE GODDAMN MEMBER OF CONGRESS nowadays; 'Caesarist' or 'Caesarism', its meaning being when a politician is more concerned with getting reelected than actually doing their job/acting in at least what they think is the best interest of the country. The reason this merits bringing up is this strongly implies that there was a point in time when politicians in the country, in some significant number didn't all act this way. Giving me the distinct feeling that a good majority of our political dysfunction would be solved if only we could rob them of the collective bad habit.
Another thing that came up for a while, which I have no idea what it means, is the symbol of the "Rag Baby," and no, I'm quite confident it's not something racist--Remember, this was a highly liberal Republican newspaper when it literally was the party of Lincoln and often had a good deal to say damning racists and defending the recently freed blacks and their children.
*Arthur Okun, Notable Economist and chairman (or whatever the highest ranking title was) of Lyndon Johnson's Council of Economic advisers after his tenure as a Professor of Economics at Yale. Died 1980, no doubt saving him a great deal of rage at Ronald Reagan. [/familial pride]
**He had a large number of entire years bound together, then a box of single issues and sometimes single pages/scraps. The latter of which I was tasked with seeing what I could salvage for sale, which mostly meant cutting out a lot of Thomas Nast cartoons, the guy who came up with the Republican Elephant and the Democratic Donkey, the latter of which was originally a Shakespeare reference, also I couldn't help but save all the extremely racist stuff I found--especially the most racist thing I've ever seen, a picture of the 'food vendors of the world for the America's centennial celebration as interpreted by some cartoonists' I kinda want to upload it do the internet, but I don't think that would be a good idea.
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No, you should definitely upload it to the internet.
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Man, this Esquire op ed is bitter: http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/Shutdown_Blues (http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/Shutdown_Blues)
I can't say I blame them.
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No, you should definitely upload it to the internet.
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The US government is also a mean bastard-ass son of a bitch. When a funding shortfalls happen, they have a plan, a plan to make sure that the least among us suffer the most. When the government “shuts down,” it has a plan for how to continue, because things don’t really shut down when there is a shutdown. A shutdown is a state of exception when the government gets to do things it normally can’t do, like close the Environmental Protection Agency, de-fund WIC, close the national parks, send a lot of government employees home, and all sorts of other stuff. A shutdown is a moment in which a choice gets made about which laws to obey and which laws to ignore, when the government gets to decide that some people are essential and some people aren’t.
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http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/06/obama-shutdown-dont-cave-republicans (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/06/obama-shutdown-dont-cave-republicans)
As Jonathan Chait points out, this is basically Mitt Romney's economic agenda. If that name doesn't ring a bell, Romney is the Republican presidential candidate who lost last year's presidential election by around 5 million votes. What Republicans are doing here is basically saying to the president (the guy who won by 5 million votes) "implement our policy agenda or we will cause a catastrophic debt default".
That isn't governing. It isn't democracy. It's a shakedown.
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Recently I've been going through my late Grandfather's* collection of Harper's Weekly**, and I've noticed an odd insult thrown around that applies to EVERY SINGLE GODDAMN MEMBER OF CONGRESS nowadays; 'Caesarist' or 'Caesarism', its meaning being when a politician is more concerned with getting reelected than actually doing their job/acting in at least what they think is the best interest of the country. The reason this merits bringing up is this strongly implies that there was a point in time when politicians in the country, in some significant number didn't all act this way. Giving me the distinct feeling that a good majority of our political dysfunction would be solved if only we could rob them of the collective bad habit.
Nicely put, and I learned a new word. Welcome back.
John Oliver's interview with Harry Reid's aide as part of his gun control coverage (https://genretv.wordpress.com/2013/05/01/the-daily-shows-three-part-special-on-gun-control-kicks-ass/) a few months back was particularly instructive. The guy comes right out and SAYS that getting re-elected is more important than passing legislation. And then when Oliver asks him if he's sure he wants to stick with that answer, he says yes. And he later went on to say he thought that was a good interview.
I think what's even more disturbing than a government of caesarists is a government that's not only unashamed to admit it but will actually tell voters to their faces that they believe that's the way it should be.
(Granted, John Oliver is not a US voter. But there WAS a camera in the room.)
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Ted Cruz's Chief of Staff just retweeted this
https://twitter.com/JamesGRickards/status/387362299268173826 (https://twitter.com/JamesGRickards/status/387362299268173826)
The Oct 17th "debt ceiling" deadline is bogus. @USTreasury has plenty of cash. Folks know it. So expect to go through date w/ no resolution.
We are so dead.
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To say this particular falcon can no longer hear the falconer is self-parody at this point but if the U.S. defaults, the GOP will have cost me more money in 24 hours than they could have claimed to save me in ten years' worth of tax returns.
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They'll have definitely annoyed a liberal though.
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I think if the US defaults, we'll have a lot more to worry about than partisan politics.
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Major foodborn illness outbreak! CDC still on furlough! Fuck everybody! (http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/10/shutdown-salmonella/)
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why did I read the comments
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disaster tourism
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I wonder how my libertarian family feels about the outbreak. I'm willing to bet it's not "oh shit I guess we need the government after all".
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I wonder how my libertarian family feels about the outbreak.
"Th-the free market will find a way to fix this problem!"
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Maybe this IS the free market's way of solving the problem!
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I bet you guys could buy a better government for like, $20 or so.
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Maybe this IS the free market's way of solving the problem!
Pretty much.
The free market is pretty good about weeding out companies that make products that kill people (addictive substances notwithstanding, of course). It's just that they, you know, have to kill some people first.
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Man, the markets are sure putting on their happy face for now. I am not as sold on this not ending in default as some of the financial analysts are.
I mean, I do think there's a 90%-95% chance they'll cobble together something at the last minute, and 90% is good odds. But that's not the 99% pish-posh most analysts seem to be going with.
If I was in charge of a large organization that held significant US treasuries (yes, I know, hahaha), I would actually be asking for a staff guy to work up a contingency plan right now. Of course, depending on how the solvency tests kick in (in the event of a default, Treasury bills will technically, and in some cases legally, cease to exist as collateral for the banks, investment funds, etc. holding them), a contingency plan might be as useful as a toilet-paper SOS in a class-5 hurricane.
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Oh man!
(http://i.imgur.com/QV4akLb.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/cgeQwme.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/cWMsSwe.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/kk3pP7P.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/DFvyuNT.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/KJfckB8.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/xYeEClS.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/9ep2WyS.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/LlGMMD4.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/mp7U6G4.gif)
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http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/10/04/how_to_handle_the_republican_tantrum_what_advice_do_parenting_guides_have.html (http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/10/04/how_to_handle_the_republican_tantrum_what_advice_do_parenting_guides_have.html)
pfflol
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DEAR LAWYER FRIENDS! I have a question.
Okay, so no one really knows what will happen on Oct 17th, 2013. It's exciting! In much the same way as being thrown out of a plane separately from your parachute is exciting!
The US looks like it may soon enter a constitutional black hole. I don't pretend to know how SCOTUS will rule on any of the questions that have come up.
What I am wondering here is: How quickly is SCOTUS expected to rule on these questions? What do the emergency meet-in-a-big-fucking-hurry provisions for SCOTUS look like?
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who run barter town (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgq4w4dqKsU#)
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The options after the debt ceiling is hit, and why the government can't just pick sectors to default on:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/25/debt-ceiling-doomsday-comes-oct-17-heres-what-happens-next/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/25/debt-ceiling-doomsday-comes-oct-17-heres-what-happens-next/)
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My lawyer friends elsewhere kindly pointed out that almost all the constitutional crises in US history have been resolved by:
A) An agreement is reached in Congress that (usually) avoids answering the fundamental question of the crisis. Usually this is followed by an Amendment that puts a permanent patch in place.
B) "Of course, you realize this means war"
SCOTUS actually ruling on full-blown consitutional crises (as opposed to whether or not a given law is constitutional) is comparitively rare, I guess? I don't know?
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I would like to comment on that (mainly big Article I issues that show up before the supreme court tend to not be TERRIBLY sexy and so we don't hear about them as much as often as the stuff that can't wait for judiciary procedure) but nobody has ever been able to explain to me what exactly a constitutional crisis actually is.
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I think that's when George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson got together to brainwash Aaron Burr to stop him from dueling people.
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Well, supposedly Wikipedia's definition is:
- The Stamp Act 1765 (Really? How does that even count?)
- The 1800 presidential election
- The Nullification Crisis of 1832
- The secession of seven Southern states leading to the American Civil War
- The 1876 presidential election
A friend had a saltier definition:
- 1800 election
- most of Andrew Jackson's presidency
- Civil War
- 1876 election
- significant portions of FDR's administration both pre and during the war
- Little Rock
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ok so yeah the sexy stuff
this is a good constitutional crisis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morrison_v._Olson)
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I know it's HuffPo, but this is too good not to share:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/14/senate-budget-deal_n_4099135.html?ncid=webmail1
Is anyone more depressed right now than McCain?
McCain emerged from an elevator outside the Senate floor Monday evening clutching an emailed printout of poll results that showed Americans were turning on his party -- exactly as he predicted.
"We're livin' the dream," McCain said with characteristic sarcasm.
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I'm always annoyed when that fucker makes me want to like him.
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Meh, I've no sympathy. To ruin an analogy a little, the dude hired servants to make his bed for him just so he can complain about having to sleep in it.
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Yeah, it's pretty easy not to like him when he's more pissed that this is ruining future Republican plans than being pissed that this is, you know, hurting people.
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You know those sorts of scenes where, say, the evil cartoon vizier moans about how dumb his help is, right as a bunch of his henchmen run by with their crotches on fire?
I mean, he's still an evil vizier, but you can empathize.
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Uh, so I just realized that we have two days before the US defaults.
Haha, you guys can stop with the brinksmanship now. Haha, I mean, you got us, funny joke. Good one, yeah. Haha.
EDIT: Okay, to be much more accurate, it will be roughly 2~ days before the US starts defaulting on debt-based payments. However the US does not have any payments due to foreign bondholders until October 31st. The things that will be begin defaulting between the 17th and the 31st are all domestic stuff, like SS payments.
Still looking pretty fucking ugly. Since the GOP have been clamping down even harder (and recently amended the House rules to prevent an end run around the Tea Party by allowing a clean vote with just the cooperative GOP reps and the Dems), the chances of this being resolved in time are pretty grim.
We could be in for some really bizarre theatre soon: One possible outcome is that Obama will use that 14th Amendment trick discussed earlier, followed by the House voting every day to impeach him, and the Senate rejecting it every time. The bigger TP cranks are already laying the groundwork, with bad articles saying Obama should be impeached already.
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The house GOP is basically done now, with their hail-mary bill failing to pass even the house. In a sane world the senate bill is going to go through without a hitch. Hopefully someone locks Cruz and the suicide caucus in a closet tomorrow.
Fitch is already talking about downgrading our credit rating though so the damage is already done.
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Yup, pretty much.
<Eazi-F> if there is one single action that is guaranteed to make every single thing the government does more expensive in the long run, it's destroying American credit
<Eazi-F> anyone who has ever considered themselves "conservative" even to the slightest degree would be against doing so unless they were in some kind of fucking death cult
<Eazi-F> enter the house of representatives class of 2010
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The 1% is personally losing their collective asses over this, but their balance sheets are so grossly obese that they can't even see it.
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The things that will be begin defaulting between the 17th and the 31st are all domestic stuff, like SS payments.
I LIVE ON THESE.
FUCK
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Hopefully someone locks Cruz and the suicide caucus in a closet tomorrow.
HEY GUYS THERE'S FREE PUNCH IN THE CLOSET
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The things that will be begin defaulting between the 17th and the 31st are all domestic stuff, like SS payments.
I LIVE ON THESE.
FUCK
Don't worry, nothing is going to happen if it hasn't already. If the US defaults there's probably a lot more to worry about than SS payments.
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The 1% is personally losing their collective asses over this, but their balance sheets are so grossly obese that they can't even see it.
They seem pretty alarmed by this as far as I can see.
I guess there's something to be said for the 1% finally having no control whatsoever of the Republican Party.
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The things that will be begin defaulting between the 17th and the 31st are all domestic stuff, like SS payments.
I LIVE ON THESE.
FUCK
Don't worry, nothing is going to happen if it hasn't already. If the US defaults there's probably a lot more to worry about than SS payments.
In fact, by some definitions, the default is already happening:
http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2013/10/14/the-default-has-already-begun/ (http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2013/10/14/the-default-has-already-begun/)
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That article has a conspiracy kook "please share this!" comment claiming that several GOP members have investment hedges betting against the US government.
I have to admit my first thought was "You know, has anybody legitimately checked that?"
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HuffPo has some no-content article that the Senate has engineered a stopgap deal and will make an announcement "soon". Don't see any confirmation from legit news sources yet though.
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That article has a conspiracy kook "please share this!" comment claiming that several GOP members have investment hedges betting against the US government.
I have to admit my first thought was "You know, has anybody legitimately checked that?"
I keep asking myself "who benefits from this batshit approach to everything" and the only answer I have is "daytime tv gets to make more countdowns"
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Stocks are soaring on the promise of, uh, a massive devaluation of mutual funds.
Economics are creepy and weird.
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Stocks are soaring on the promise of, uh, a massive devaluation of mutual funds.
Economics :isweird:
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Salon: So when we hit midnight Thursday night what is going to have happened?
[Democratic Congressman Alan Grayson]: I don’t know. But I do know that this will prove once and for all, beyond any doubt, that the Tea Party and the Republican Party are agents of chaos. And they are completely unsuited to participating in government.
S: Are you suggesting the voters will prevent it from happening again?
AG: The voters will prevent this from happening again. Even a dog knows when it’s being kicked.
S: How will they do that?
AG: By voting the Republicans out of power and relegating the Republican Party to the ash heap of history.
dang i like this guy
and he's from florida too! how'd that even happen
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I'm always annoyed when that fucker makes me want to like him.
it's okay to think people who want to do monstrous stuff have positive qualities
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Stocks are soaring on the promise of, uh, a massive devaluation of mutual funds.
Economics :isweird:
it's not so much economics as it is finance
people are just trying to get out of T-bills, so stocks are the place to be; they'll go right back in a week
(http://31.media.tumblr.com/53517a40a20e7c39145de6bf8aae3d8a/tumblr_mnuvopaY0o1rckskmo1_500.jpg)
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Yeah, it's pretty easy not to like him when he's more pissed that this is ruining future Republican plans than being pissed that this is, you know, hurting people.
I don't say a lot of nice things about McCain, but I don't think that's fair. Prior to getting his ass whomped by a rightwing nutjob in 2000 and deciding if he couldn't beat 'em he should join 'em, he was pretty reliable as a guy who was willing to cross the aisle and make deals -- he was never really the RINO/moderate/maverick that people tended to make him out to be, but he was at least ready to disagree with his party now and again or make compromises in order to get shit done.
I think he probably IS pretty frustrated that his party has become completely intractable, and not just because it's bad strategy.
And I gotta figure he's spent many a sleepless night wishing he'd picked a different running-mate.
...Anyway. As far as today's news, looks like it's over. Sorta. Sequester's still on and I'm not convinced the Tea Party's learned its lesson and won't pull this shit again the next time there's a budget vote, but still, this beats the fuck out of defaulting, or taking money out of essential programs to avoid defaulting.
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I've probably mentioned this before, but the day the GOP chose Bush Jr. over McCain was the day I stopped... well, I can't say that I lost all faith in it, but it was certainly the day I stopped giving the US political system the benefit of the doubt.
A lot of people have forgotten that throughout the primaries, McCain consistently polled way higher on his chances in a general election than Bush Jr. did.
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Sequester's still on and I'm not convinced the Tea Party's learned its lesson and won't pull this shit again the next time there's a budget vote
Sadly, that part isn't even in doubt:
“I’ll vote against it,” said Representative John C. Fleming, Republican of Louisiana, referring to the Senate plan. “But that will get us into Round 2. See, we’re going to start this all over again.”
Fleming's one of the loudest and most uncooperative members of the TP contingent, admittedly, but it's not a promising sign.
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Anyway. Are you kidding me? Get a load of this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/16/if-ted-cruz-didnt-exist-democrats-would-have-to-invent-him/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/16/if-ted-cruz-didnt-exist-democrats-would-have-to-invent-him/)
Like, is the WaPo trying to get down to the level of the NyPo here?
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If you read the whole article it's more clear that the guy's kind of joking. It's really more about the extent to which Cruz and his people ran the ball backwards (spoilers: they completely fucking own-goaled, giving the Dems leverage they could never dare to ask for nor dream of obtaining otherwise).
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If you read the whole article it's more clear that the guy's kind of joking. It's really more about the extent to which Cruz and his people ran the ball backwards (spoilers: they completely fucking own-goaled, giving the Dems leverage they could never dare to ask for nor dream of obtaining otherwise).
Also Ted Cruz is basically single handedly the reason the national dialog hasn't been the shitty obamacare roll out for the last two weeks.
EDIT: I have a theory that the bad roll out wasn't a bigger deal because there is an entire generation of voters who had to suffer through WoW's launch and content updates.
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Sequester's still on and I'm not convinced the Tea Party's learned its lesson and won't pull this shit again the next time there's a budget vote
Sadly, that part isn't even in doubt:
“I’ll vote against it,” said Representative John C. Fleming, Republican of Louisiana, referring to the Senate plan. “But that will get us into Round 2. See, we’re going to start this all over again.”
Fleming's one of the loudest and most uncooperative members of the TP contingent, admittedly, but it's not a promising sign.
But it's straight up Bad Guy Wrestler talk. He may as well be sending the Democrats a fucking gift basket -- he's got the "gift" part covered pretty well as it is.
He's either very very stupid, or knows he can get campaign contributions with talk like that.
Course, inasmuch as he's gone and pissed off all the Republican donors who actually have lots of money, he might see the latter dry up too.
Hell, I think that statement's going to make more money in contributions for Harry Reid than it is for John Fleming.
If you read the whole article it's more clear that the guy's kind of joking. It's really more about the extent to which Cruz and his people ran the ball backwards (spoilers: they completely fucking own-goaled, giving the Dems leverage they could never dare to ask for nor dream of obtaining otherwise).
So let's check in with Thad and Brent from Three Years Ago:
I think we really ARE looking at a replay of the Class of '94 Let's Shut Down the Government Because We Have a Mandate foolishness. The two major questions are, are the Republicans dumb enough to do it AGAIN, and are the Democrats smart enough to let them?
Yes, No.
Well, the Democrats let them, anyway. Which I guess shows at least a modicum of spine and savvy, for a change.
And a certain amount of luck, but really the Republicans were fucked on this one even without Ted Cruz's 21-Hour Speech About the Importance of Ted Cruz. We knew this was going to be a debacle for the Tea Party before we ever heard that clown's name.
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The system is so rigged at this point I can't see this not happening again. In the end, this was a win-win situation for Tea Party members. They may have demanded a defund of Obamacare, but they also really wanted that government shutdown in and of itself. So this entire thing was exactly what they wanted.
And as for repercussions, well, we all saw how the Republicans lost control over the house because of the last two times they pulled this shit. The problem is entirely systemic. Everyone may hate the Republicans for this debacle, but everyone is not responsible for electing them. We may see turnover of a few of the Tea Party caucus, but there's a good chance they'll be primarying the capitulating Republicans in several other districts. They support a Hydra method of gaining power.
In a way, though, I really admire these Tea Party guys. The shutdown is an absolute debacle that hurt a lot of people and every single one of them is a shitstain, but man, the system lets them do that shit. Every single time this shit has happened since 2009, Harry Reid and Obama have had plenty of options to just shut this shit down so they can get back to the task of governing. And there's no reason to keep it, either, because it's not like there's a power left-wing opposition that will end up trying to get its demands.
If only I could figure out why the Democrats don't do anything to correct this shit. Oh well, here's another MoveOn.org newsletter about how we need to beat the Republicans in 2014...
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There's the report/jokespawn going around about the bewildering 5% of Americans who still give Congress a thumbs-up. I just assume it's Tea Party-slash-Libertarians who honestly believe no gubmint is better than any gubmint.
(What the hell, autocorrect doesn't give me any shit for "gubmint"? Who programmed this dictionary?)
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And as for repercussions, well, we all saw how the Republicans lost control over the house because of the last two times they pulled this shit. The problem is entirely systemic. Everyone may hate the Republicans for this debacle, but everyone is not responsible for electing them. We may see turnover of a few of the Tea Party caucus, but there's a good chance they'll be primarying the capitulating Republicans in several other districts. They support a Hydra method of gaining power.
Didn't the Republicans keep control of the House in '96? They lost some seats, but remained the majority.
If this does effect the election, I expect the Democrats to pick up a few moderate Republican districts, but the Tea Party will be strengthened by grabbing some heavily Republican districts. Midterm elections tend to swing right anyway, since the only people that care are old white people. Net result is that gridlock gets worse.
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I thought Constantine was being sarcastic about the GOP losing the house.
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Yeah, it'd probably be a lot clearer if I specified that "The last two times they pulled this shit" was like over the last 4 years. The GOP has been playing reckless obstructionist in the House since they took over. Their popularity has been on a steep decline since, but the result of gerrymandering and primary challenges ends up with the more fanatical right-wing members gaining power, while the moderates are pushed out.
Ironically, the system that's allowing them to choke the House is preventing them from taking over the Senate. But for their purposes, a slow destruction of the government is fine.
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The moderates in the GOP are the ones who will disproportionately be affected. The fringe Republicans would never have been put in power in the first place if their position was not secure.
If you assume that the fringe faction's goal is not to oppose the Democratic Party but rather to stage a hostile takeover of the GOP and its prized economic resources, the whole debacle goes from looking like pure insanity to looking like a terrifyingly effective briar patch gambit. Ted Cruz is not going to lose his seat, but the guy to his left trying desperately to make him shut up will.
Is this a violation of Hanlon's Razor? Sure, but at the same time, we've had that prediction about the GOP's fate as a topic title for years. We keep waiting for the autocannibalization to happen but it's become much clearer now, with bullshit like the Hastert Rule being put into place with the sole purpose of making the GOP machine gag its own people, that it has not only already started but is actually pretty close to complete. At this point any moderate Republican who is paying attention needs to start choosing between moving right, leaving the organization, or being pushed out of office by his or her own faction.
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Is it wrong that I am taking some small amount of (Pyrrhic?) vindictive glee in this turn of events?
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Cynical as I am, I think at some point the not-Tea-Party Republicans are going to get sick of this shit. Boehner's a battered wife and he's not going to suspend the Hastert Rule on his own, but he's looking at pressure from all sides and it's only going to get worse. (The Hastert Rule is not actually a rule. It's more of a tradition. And it's not much of one; Hastert only became Speaker in '99.)
The flipside of the "most of the Tea Party is safe" coin is that most of the not-Tea Party is safe, too. I've pointed it out before but it bears repeating: 2010 was considered a bloodbath, and 80% of the House kept their seats. There are some districts where "moderate" Republicans (this being a relative term of course) have a good reason to fear a primary challenge, but they're vastly outnumbered by districts where they don't.
And the other thing that bears repeating is, the deep-pocketed donors are pretty pissed off about this whole turn of events, and they're going to start twisting arms.